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View Full Version : There Is No Dark Side!


benTantilles
05-21-2003, 11:43 AM
what are everyone's opinions on vergere's revalation?

personally, i think it's a great thing...it means jedi can go at it w/o worry of some supernatural thing trying to take over them. i think it's true as well...in the movies, the jedi only gave into their OWN dark sides, not something beyond them. anakin gave into his desire to avenge his mother's death and slew all those tusken...luke did the same with his feelings for his sister (no...not THOSE feelings ;)) and struck at vader repeatedly.

what do u think?

Master_Payne
05-21-2003, 05:33 PM
I think its a good point if you have at least 600 years before understand it correctly, say "there is no dark side" to a boy its encourage him to fall at it IMO, but with certain maturity(SP?) can turn to a really good point, sadly if that revelation becomes a standar of the Jedi the rest of SW (included the third trilogy) will be destroyed.
Personally I'm still waiting for the death of certain characters related to this topic...
But for me dark side is lose control of your emotions and that's all, I always wondered what would happen on ROTJ if when the emperor said "strike me down with all your hatred..." Luke respond with a strike at him and say "my hate dies with you...", then it becomes a happy ending.
By now I will wait for the NJO ending to see what happens then.

wassup
05-21-2003, 08:49 PM
I guess I agree with it now, though I admit I was skeptical/puzzled when I first read what she said.

joetech3000
05-28-2003, 10:53 AM
If there is no Dark Side, then Ben, and Yoda, and even the bad guys are all wrong! I think there is a Dark Side and a Light Side.

Lynk Former
05-28-2003, 11:02 AM
...from a certain point of view...



;)

benTantilles
05-29-2003, 10:56 AM
There is A dark side...but it's an aspect of a person's character, not the Force... ie the Force has no dark side. so yes, yoda & ben were wrong-that's why their order failed- but the bad guys were not necessarily incorrect. i think the emperor knew along...but just shut up.

wassup
05-30-2003, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by joetech3000
If there is no Dark Side, then Ben, and Yoda, and even the bad guys are all wrong! I think there is a Dark Side and a Light Side.

The dark comes from within YOU, not the Force. The Force does not have sides, it is ONE. :D

Pnut_Man
05-30-2003, 01:50 AM
I can see someone took Vergere's advice given in Traitor ;)

boinga1
06-01-2003, 07:54 PM
Well...not to be an EU hater- I love EU- I think Vergere's "revelation" is BS. And unless we hear otherwise in ep3- I'll continue to believe that.

swphreak
06-01-2003, 10:46 PM
Vergere had some interesting point of views.

I like her idea of the force being one. It is you who is dark or light. And once you understand that, you are the most powerful, but how can you do force lighting or choke without being evil....

Shotokan
06-02-2003, 07:01 AM
Well it says in Destiny's Way that Jacen threw " emerald fire " that wasn't like the dark side's force lightning. So I suppose he used the same force lightning, but at a less intense level.

benTantilles
06-02-2003, 07:19 AM
Well...not to be an EU hater- I love EU- I think Vergere's "revelation" is BS
i'm inclined to disagree. not only did it clear up all those conflicts about how to use the Force and to what extent, but it also accounted for the older generation jedis' issues with the Force. as to whether it was an error on vergere's part, i disagree again...ganner was putting her revelation into effect when he was holding back the vong to buy jacen some time.

rad-x
06-04-2003, 10:09 AM
Tell me, has anything crucial to the main characters during the EU novels? I've only read the Thrawn trilogy and the Jedi Academy by KJ Anderson.

And this revelation, I seem to feel it's birth is by an author running out of ideas.

benTantilles
06-04-2003, 12:17 PM
traitor is matthew stover's first novel... it's pretty unlikely that he'd have run outa ideas on his very first sw book. besides, rather than a last-ditch attempt @ adding some spice to the eu, vergere's revelation was aimed at getting the jedi order out of the 'don't-use-the-force-too-much-coz-u'll-go-dark' dilemma which they were in.

and rad..there's a LOT of crucial stuff happening to both the main & minor movie characters in the eu...not to mention the eu-created characters. luke's gets married and has a son. han & leia have 3 children-a pair of twins & another son- and lose one. the emperor gets resurrected...twice. so much other stuff happens...too much to explain. my advice to u: now that u've read the thrawn trilogy, read the x-wing series, the hand of thrawn trilogy & the NJO.

rad-x
06-04-2003, 01:47 PM
Right ok. I'll see what I can do. I got put off EU novels when Chewbacca died, but maybe I'll give them a try again. It's good to know though, that the authors aren't bound to their characters health and safety and can be creative in what they do.

But is this really a big revelation?

Anakin surely was pushed to the dark side by his mum, we know this. We know the force 'binds the universe together.' Seems like it's confirming something that doesn't actually matter.

darthfergie
06-04-2003, 08:44 PM
Sure. Vergere's epiphany was correct...but it is so correct that it doesn't change anything. The thing is tho, it seems like 9/10 of Traitor is ignored by other authors which ticks me off. Jacen was suposed to have finally found his center...eh...no. He's still off in lala land apparently. He was so amazing in Traitor...only to meet a wall head on when the rest of the authors portrayed him how they wanted to. *sigh* all that character development with Vergere and Jacen wasted.:o

Master_Payne
06-04-2003, 09:46 PM
I have to agree, I used to want Jacen to die, until I read traitor... now one of two or they resume Jacen as he was on Traitor on the next books or... they kill him (but this will kill traitor as well).
Also (after my second read of traitor) i think Vergere is right and is now over yoda in my list of wiser "Jedi".

edit. just noticed this: There is No Dark Side = There is No Spoon, match the exact scene. (I'm not saying that's a copy, just the same idea)

boinga1
06-05-2003, 08:00 PM
Vergere > :yoda:

Over my dead body.

Redwing
07-06-2003, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by benTantilles
it means jedi can go at it w/o worry of some supernatural thing trying to take over them

You mean like the Force? :D

Seriously: Does Vergere's revelation explain things like how Yoda used the Dark Side-imbued tree to hide his own Light Side-Force energies? (no seriously, I haven't read it ;))

benTantilles
07-07-2003, 03:04 PM
no seriously, I haven't read it
then u must have some of the Force yourself...tell us! which elixir have u been drinking from?! where is that valley of the jedi?! :D

Does Vergere's revelation explain things like how Yoda used the Dark Side-imbued tree to hide his own Light Side-Force energies?
hmmm...good question. my answer is, i think, no...vergere's revelation involves more ACTIOn while yoda's use of the ds tree was kinda passive...he just located his residence next to it and let the Forces of nature do the rest...

Mr.Joshua
07-08-2003, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by benTantilles
There is A dark side...but it's an aspect of a person's character, not the Force... ie the Force has no dark side. so yes, yoda & ben were wrong-that's why their order failed- but the bad guys were not necessarily incorrect. i think the emperor knew along...but just shut up.

I don't think Yoda and Ben and the old order were wrong per se. Think of it this way, especially with the new trilogy. Prior to Darth Vader's death, The Force was unbalanced, Anakin brought it back into balance through Luke's salvation of him. "The Darkside clouds everything" doesn't necessarilly mean that there is a DARK SIDE of the Force that's clouding them, simply that the Force is out of balance and favoring the darker uses of it making it more difficult for the Jedi to use their "light".

I agree that the Darkside or Lightside is what's within the user though and that the Force is one all encompassing entity. I just think people need to think more deeply to find the hidden meanings.

I dunno, I know this is the EU forum, but you still have to take into consideration the movies and GL's vision of what SW is. Taking vergere's words as the solid fact and not actually analyzing them isn't doing this IMO. Especially since she's a Jedi from the time of the old order.