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Echuu Shen-Jon
05-24-2003, 10:02 AM
I only looked on the first page, because I've learned, that people get really mad, when you dig up a thread! :rolleyes:

Anyways!

Wil there be grass, trees and such in JA? JO had none or little of these. Of course there was many missions in door, but the only good graphic level was the Swamp, but you didn't have time to watch the graphics because it was a little confusing!

PrimoSidone
05-24-2003, 10:31 AM
the swamp lvl made my frames go










DOWN

Echuu Shen-Jon
05-24-2003, 10:34 AM
Yes...But it was a huge, big and rainy level!

tFighterPilot
05-24-2003, 11:10 AM
Framerate sure have sucked there.

Echuu Shen-Jon
05-24-2003, 11:12 AM
Don't post, if you don't add to the topic! Just a thought, that will keep you from mods harm!

tFighterPilot
05-24-2003, 11:17 AM
spooky

I guess I won't post then.

JediBozQ
05-24-2003, 03:57 PM
Whoa wait! The swamp level suffer frame rate drop even with a GF4 Ti?

I am about to get that, ya know

HertogJan
05-24-2003, 04:07 PM
On my old PC, I tuned the resolutioin down to 800x600 for the swamp and canyon levels, cause they made my framerate drop. That was with a GF2MX...

On my new PC I never experienced any framerate problems :D

Yeah I'd like prettier environments, I don't care if the specs are going up; that's evolution in games land :D

Pedro The Hutt
05-24-2003, 04:16 PM
I just like an environment that's nice to behold o.o it doesn't need overly complicated stuff that makes my framerate drop from 30 fps to 3 >.>

StormHammer
05-24-2003, 05:24 PM
Heh...I thought this was going to be another of those threads complaining about the engine, or something. :p

I agree that it would be nice to have another Swamp-like level, or perhaps a forest. I'd love to see something like the Tokara Forest map from UT2K3 with giant trees. :)

I don't see any reason why they couldn't do it, and at an acceptable frame-rate, because SOFII had quite a few jungle levels with lots of grass, bushes and trees. Also, it would make a nice contrast to the Icy wastes of Hoth, and the sandy wastes of Tatooine (the sand is coarse and rough BTW :rolleyes: )

Echuu Shen-Jon
05-24-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by JediBozQ
Whoa wait! The swamp level suffer frame rate drop even with a GF4 Ti?

I am about to get that, ya know No. My GeForce2GTS with 64 MB DDR had no hard time with that map!

txa1265
05-25-2003, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by StormHammer
Heh...I thought this was going to be another of those threads complaining about the engine, or something. :p

OK ... I'll make it one ;)

Gamespy talked about JA as a 'disappointment', as they expected more, wanted Kyle (talk about reviewing your expectations, not the game itself) and about the graphics. Specifically, they said that the Q3TA engine shows its' age in comparison to Doom III, HL2 and Deus Ex 2. They also say that Elite Force 2 seems to be doing better with the same engine.

Personally I hope that it just due to the build of the game. I played the EF2 demo on decent hardware and thought it looked pretty nice ... if they can do the same with JA I'll be very happy.

I agree that it would be nice to have another Swamp-like level, or perhaps a forest. I'd love to see something like the Tokara Forest map from UT2K3 with giant trees. :)

Hated the Swamp on my Dell Inspiron 8100 (1.2GHz, 32MB Geforce 2GO) ... love it on everything since ...

I don't see any reason why they couldn't do it, and at an acceptable frame-rate, because SOFII had quite a few jungle levels with lots of grass, bushes and trees. Also, it would make a nice contrast to the Icy wastes of Hoth, and the sandy wastes of Tatooine (the sand is coarse and rough BTW :rolleyes: )

I agree - SoFII had frame problems in some places, but not in the junglrd ...

Mike

Emon
05-25-2003, 02:32 AM
Yavin swamp was poorly put together, and JO lacks the terrain system in SoF2 (which JA now has).

Solbe M'ko
05-25-2003, 03:53 AM
Tokara forest, yeah... only Kashyyyk instead! Wookies galore! :chew1

Outdoor maps are nice, but I don't think it's beneficial to add them if the graphics can't make it look good. if the map is unnaturally small, or has to be contained by big cliffs, etc. (like in JO) I don't think it looks as genuine. Games like Tribes, Mechwarrior, and Ghost Recon were made for outdoors, and they were great, but the indoor parts were lacking. Games like Half-life and Jedi Knight had okay indoor maps, but their outdoor maps were limiting. the Unreal 2 engine offers the best solution, because it really doesn't favor either one. Splinter Cell, for example had very nice indoor and outdoor maps. UT2K3 had nice ones too. U2 even had maps with a little of both, but the lame/short/uninpired gameplay hampered it. I have high hopes for the future of level design.

Prime
05-27-2003, 02:14 PM
Every effort should be made to have outdoor levels, if it is feasible to do so, IMO.

txa1265
05-27-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Emon
Yavin swamp was poorly put together, and JO lacks the terrain system in SoF2 (which JA now has).

I thought that the Swamp was a very nice level ... easy to get lost, but eventually find your way.

txa1265
05-27-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Every effort should be made to have outdoor levels, if it is feasible to do so, IMO.

Absolutely!

And I see no issue - the Yavin levels were pretty good, as were the various SoFII levels outdoors (Kamchatka in the snow, Columbia jungles, Hong Kong streets).

I think we know there is a tricky balance here - they are trying to use an older engine that they have heavily tweaked, also have the best hit and damage system out there, and are trying to provide detailed external and internal levels, as well as excellent AI, and a pseudo-ragdoll system where there was none, and NPC's, and so on. And it all has to play well on a reasonable hardware setup.

Mike

Wudan
05-27-2003, 06:23 PM
JO was too much of a rush job, in many aspects. The MP renderer in particular made me want to vomit, but if you know how to tweak out the video settings via console, you should be ok with JO.

JDKnite188
05-27-2003, 06:53 PM
Trees and grass and such will only be present in appropriate maps. I don't think you will have it in Nar Shaadaa :cool:

Btw what is the best recommended video card for a Quake 3 Engine or Unreal engine game? I want to upgrade soon and my preference of company would be NVidia (I don't care for all the crap that ATI cards come with, no way am I going to pay a buttload extra for a buttload of things i don't use). NVidia cards have served me well. What would be a good choice? It seems that a few individuals that have posted here have NVidia cards . . .

Emon
05-28-2003, 03:12 AM
Erm, what makes you think ATI is more expensive? I'm getting a Radeon 9700 for $200, and that's cheaper and faster than any nVidia equivelant.

txa1265
05-28-2003, 10:35 AM
I would check out ExtremeTech.com ratings for performance and buy the highest performing card you can afford. Here's a link:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1061932,00.asp

ATI currently bests nVidia in general. I have nVidia cards in all of my Dell laptops, and a GF4Ti4600 in my desktop system. Depending on the tech business climate in the next few months I may pick up a new desktop or just a new video card. If I go vid card, it will be ATI.

As for requirements - I would say that you should be able to play SoFII comfortably on your system if you expect decent JA performance. Just a hunch ...

Mike

zERoCooL2479
05-30-2003, 08:00 PM
I have a ti4600 too...I'm sure that will be good enough. Hopefully for Doom III as well :/

JaledDur
05-30-2003, 10:19 PM
A good 4200 can overclock *very* nicely. I believe there is an Asus on newegg with really fast ram for around 130-40.

The Radeon 9700 is a great card though, for a good price. I hated ATi in the past because their drivers were just awful (they have greatly improved I hear), I'm still not a big fan, but I'm not a fan of nVidia anymore either, that overgrown hairdryer they tried to market put me off of them. ATi are now allowing other comapnies to utilize their chipsets to make their own cards, and as far as I know the ATi products dont force you to buy the Radeon x000 Super-Duper TV-VGA-DVI-Tuner-FM-AM + toaster interface cards.... In fact they never did, maybe thats just all that was available in your area, but they have always had just a plain jane card, and always sold their Radeon 'All-in-Wonder' cards with all the features along side the basic cards.

StormHammer
05-31-2003, 12:30 AM
Er, guys, before this becomes a general discussion about graphics hardware, please keep in mind the topic of the thread. ;) Thanks. :cool:

As Mike stated above, I'm sure that if you can run SOF2 at a good frame-rate, JA will run at a decent speed as well. We'll have to wait and see what the minimum specs are, though, and I doubt Raven will have a really clear idea of that until they've tweaked the game to death.

I'd hazard a guess and say the minimum specs will be higher than for JO. So if your system struggled to run JO...I think you might have problems.

Kengo
05-31-2003, 12:38 AM
Yavin Swamp was my favourite level from the whole game, maybe because it was the only in the wilderness level I can remember. I guess the fact the engine couldn't seem to cope too well with large outdoor areas had a lot to do with that. I kinda enjoy those kind of levels, they at least break up base after hideout after another, more different base.

BrodieCadden
06-11-2003, 06:08 AM
The graphics in JA are sh*t by todays standards. They are woefully dated. The textures are washed out, the character animations are mediocre, the entire things reeks of 2 years ago.

They should of swapped engines, the Q3 Arena engine is just dated. Simply dated. Don't expect anything dynamic, just poor graphics.

txa1265
06-11-2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by BrodieCadden
The graphics in JA are sh*t by todays standards. They are woefully dated. The textures are washed out, the character animations are mediocre, the entire things reeks of 2 years ago.

They should of swapped engines, the Q3 Arena engine is just dated. Simply dated. Don't expect anything dynamic, just poor graphics.

:rolleyes:

They should not have swapped engines - what would they have swapped it with? Unreal engine? Remember, every game except for DoomIII and Half Life II is using the 'current' Unreal or Q3 engine. Deus Ex 2 is the first game to really use the Unreal II engine. The first Doom3 engine game is Quake IV, not due for a year after DoomIII.

The graphics are 'standard' by today's standards. They are advanced from JKII as we've all seen, which is what should be expected. I hope they look as good as Elite Force II, which looks quite nice for Q3 technology/ Would we all like to see Jan look like the girl from the HL2 tech demo? Sure. Would we like a totally interactive and physically realistic world like the HL2 or DoomIII videos show? Absolutely. Have either of those games even come out to know what compromises have to be made to make those games play on today's standard hardware? No. Carmack already said that the monster and environmental complexity of DoomIII means you'll be battling ~1 monster at a time. We know that JA shows you battling what looked like 5 or 6 enemies. Do you have no conception of what is involved in enemy animation and AI? Not to mention GHOULII damage detection for 6 or 7 simultaneous 'players' using 6 - 14 sabers and force powers?

Gaming is about compromises. Raven / LEC decided they wanted a game in Fall 2003. We'll get a game that is techology-wise an evolutionary step from JKII, that will run on similar hardware, and give us more cool Jedi action than in JKII. Which is exactly what
I want.

Mike

StormHammer
06-11-2003, 12:27 PM
I agree with everything you just said, Mike. :)

Sure the Q3A tech is starting to show it's age, but games being developed on other engines mostly haven't even come out yet. Besides, you can still produce a bad game on a new engine...just look at New World Order, Devastation, and probably Chaser (judging by the demo I played). Graphics don't make great gameplay...just look at Unreal 2. An average shooter with excellent graphics.

Anyway, I don't see how you can really judge JA in graphical terms just from stationery screenshots and a couple of trailers, one of which was very poor quality (the shaky cam), and the official trailer which seemed quite dark and probably ran at about 15 fps. Have you actually play tested the game? I'll reserve judgement until I've got the full (finalised) game itself running on my PC screen.

Spider AL
06-11-2003, 12:44 PM
*sniff* Poor Devastation.

Anyway, graphics in motion at full resolution look completely different to screenshots or trailers. Nobody can judge at the present time how good or bad JA will look, or play.

Echuu Shen-Jon
06-11-2003, 01:53 PM
No, Al and Stormy are right! You can't judge a game on those things. (What's that with the shacky cam? I'd like to see it!)

This wasn't my question either. I asked, if there was better graphics. I didn't say that it would be a game either. I agree.

What's the link to that movie? :D:D:D

StormHammer
06-11-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Echuu Shen-Jon
What's the link to that movie? :D:D:D

The details were posted on jediknightii.net (http://www.jediknightii.net) on the 22nd May. But you can click here (http://jedi-knight2.de/dlmanager/item.php?id=128) to go directly to the download site. :)

babywax
06-11-2003, 05:15 PM
The graphics in JA are sh*t by todays standards. They are woefully dated. The textures are washed out, the character animations are mediocre, the entire things reeks of 2 years ago.

They should of swapped engines, the Q3 Arena engine is just dated. Simply dated. Don't expect anything dynamic, just poor graphics.

I'd hate to be brodie... It would stink to have that high of expectations for every game. I like good graphics as well as the next person but jeese, you can't expect to have every game on the market able to show pores on someones face... I want to fight multiple monsters, and I don't want to wait 5 minutes to see the move I just clicked executed due to lag.

As for good graphics, I would expect them to have wonderful outdoor areas, I've never seen the SOF2 outdoor engine, but it sounds specialized so I'd venture a guess that they will look good. Tree models? Not too hard, they probably won't look extremely realistic, but you will be able to tell they're trees if they have a good modeller doing them.

Lord Darkhelmet
06-12-2003, 12:20 PM
Games don't always have to make compromises when they have good graphics. Just look at Rogue Leader and Rebel Strike on the GameCube. Both games have hundreds of enemies onscreen and the machine is fairly low-spec by todays standards.;)

Spider AL
06-12-2003, 01:15 PM
And don't forget, we've learned from the editing community of JK1 that the engine is less important than the skill of the modellers and skinners. They've created some quite breathtaking vistas using the JK engine over the years.

Prime
06-12-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by BrodieCadden
The graphics in JA are sh*t by todays standards. They are woefully dated. The textures are washed out, the character animations are mediocre, the entire things reeks of 2 years ago.. Based on what? Still screenshots and a small, grainy movie clip of an old build of the game? Especially when we know all the technical improvements that have been made to the engine and graphics.

Bad textures, models, and animations are a result of creating them poorly, not a direct result of the engine.

Originally posted by BrodieCadden
They should of swapped engines, the Q3 Arena engine is just dated. Simply dated. Don't expect anything dynamic, just poor graphics. Mike responded to this quite well. What exactly would you switch too?

Echuu Shen-Jon
06-12-2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
The details were posted on jediknightii.net (http://www.jediknightii.net) on the 22nd May. But you can click here (http://jedi-knight2.de/dlmanager/item.php?id=128) to go directly to the download site. :) What's those two white bobbles? They're appearing in the last 20 sec's of the "trailer"... Was it really worth waiting 8 minutes for? NO!!! :D

StormHammer
06-12-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Echuu Shen-Jon
What's those two white bobbles? They're appearing in the last 20 sec's of the "trailer"... Was it really worth waiting 8 minutes for? NO!!! :D

I warned you it was a shaky cam. :p

Anyway, those white bubbles are supposed to be some kind of Force power...and I sincerely hope they are removed from the final version of the game. All these visual effects really aren't necessary. And those white balls look pretty terrible, anyway - they're probably place holders for the final effect. I would imagine (hope). ;)

Anyway...that short video was useful for something...it shows that those ledges aren't stable, so you'd better watch where you step...

Emon
06-12-2003, 03:43 PM
Yeah, because an extremely low resolution video is a great way to judge the graphics! :rolleyes:

Echuu Shen-Jon
06-13-2003, 03:30 PM
Anyway...that short video was useful for something...it shows that those ledges aren't stable, so you'd better watch where you step...Yeah, really...:rolleyes:

But I don't understand, that such a bad and short video is way larger than the 21 min. interview with KotOR...(If you calculate of course. I'm not silly, and think 9 is greater than 38 :D) Thanks for the info anyway...

It doesn't seems like there will be great envoirmental graphics, though. But it's on X-BOX, soooo :xp: j/k

EvilCrow
06-14-2003, 10:45 AM
How will an ATi Radeon 9500 Bulk 64MB card handle this game?

Echuu Shen-Jon
06-14-2003, 10:56 AM
Wait for the systemrequirments to come out...However, I think so! No, I hope so! :D

txa1265
06-16-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by EvilCrow
How will an ATi Radeon 9500 Bulk 64MB card handle this game?

How does it handle JKII? Have you played SoFII? If so, how does that play? If both of these games play very well with full settings (incl AF/AA), and still get >60FPS, chances are you will be OK with JA.

HOWEVER - and this is important - there are no announced requirements, and no one has really tested the game since it isn't nearly finished yet.

Mike

Check out extremetech ... http://www.extremetech.com/image_popup/0,3969,s=1017&iid=22736,00.asp

HertogJan
06-16-2003, 10:38 AM
I think it'll do ok, at least for singleplay, for multiplay the more fps the better, but if the rest of your system is good enough, it won't be a problem :)

ryudom
06-16-2003, 11:48 AM
hahaha i'm 99% positive a 9500 will run JA super well with no problems... as long as you don't have like a 300 mhz processor lol