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Boba Rhett
05-15-2003, 05:22 AM
:indif:


Woah.



Just. Woah.


SPOILER ALERT: CONTAINS BIGGINS


It totally blew my mind. A few things were not as great as I'd have liked them to be, such as the freeway scene, but still I think this movie did a great job melting my pants. Morpheus' speech was kinda over the top as well and the Zion party scene was like a girls gone wild video such as Harry Knowles said.

There's a whole lot to wrap your head around in this one. So many questions to be answered. So many things that will leave you WTFing all the way home. Is the matrix INSIDE another matrix**?! What's up with Neo? The seventh time this has happened?! :eek: The seventh, "cycle" of this whole ordeal?! :eek: Why are all the Zion women hotties? HOLY ****, ZION HAS MECHS!?! I WANT ONE! Where is my asprin?

I think a lot of people are going to be walking out of this movie with totally different interpretations as to what they just saw. Right now I'm giving it a solid Nine. This may change upon more viewings.

I know this Isn't much of a review at all but it's 2am now and I want to hit the sack. I'll add more to this tomorrow after I see Reloaded again. :D Everyone feel free to add their own reviews!

Since viewing it I have set out to process all the information that was piled on top of me and I *think* that I have got quite a few answers so feel free to also post any questions if you have them.

I'm off to dream of vampires, zion women and orgasmic chocolate cake. You'll know why soon enough. ;)


** = I think Roger Ebert came to the same conclusion. "The Architect seems to hint that when you strip away one level of false virtual reality, you find another level beneath. Maybe everything so far is several levels up?"

Wacky_Baccy
05-15-2003, 05:34 AM
Holy... WHOA O.O

Damn... Rhett, I think that AICN needs a good kicking after what you said they were saying, and now this :D

I had a feeling there might've been a "Matrix inside a Matrix inside a..." etc. thing being used (or implied) with it... Now I know :D

Damn do I need to see this film soon X.X
Posted by Boba Rhett
I'm off to dream of vampires, zion women and orgasmic chocolate cake. You'll know why soon enough. ;) O.o;

Dear lord you're peculiar XD


*sigh* I wish I didn't have to wait even longer to see it :(

Ratmjedi
05-15-2003, 06:16 AM
Don't worry Wacky you'll understand what the last thing he said about Orgasmic cake and Vampires was all about ;)

Rhett we are lucky aren't we? I loved every part about the movie and I just thought it was awesome. There are so many good twists and I knew there was something about the Architect that was related to the few films and that was the screens of his.

His little speach was a little confusing but I understood it quite well and think that some people are going to have a hard time interpreting what he said to Neo. It is a cycle that is out of necesity. That is where the title comes from. The Matrix has been Reloaded and this was suppose to be another attempt so that the equation could continue.

I loved the end cause it just got so important and I think what I know what the last scened mean.

Smith (no longer a Agent) has figured out to copy himself into other files. He is basically overwriting the previous files and is saving them into him. I also think that he really has free'd himself and is in that one guy. That is were the Original Smith is now at.

I also have one good question? Who the hell is that guy that keeps coming up to Neo and thanking him for unplugging him? I was thinking that it was the Spoon boy but then he get's the gift so we know that it couldn't of been him?

I also think that the humor in the movie is excellent. It is good and isn't like a joke funny but just hilarious with the circumstances that they are in. I mean there is a cause which is the funny line and then there is the effect of us laughing because of it.

It's so funny Rhett though cause we are the only ones that are getting this right now and I know everybody that is reading this is like WTF x 10 .

:lsduel: :duel:

greedo626
05-15-2003, 11:23 AM
wow. I need to see it again. so much to see. so much to take in. but it was good :thumbsup:. the fight scene with Neo and Smith is really well done:drop2: (it's worth going to the movie just to see it). the sex scene was a bit longer than it needed to be, and the first part seemed a little slow (but when I was in the theatre waiting for the movie to start, 1 minute seemed like 20, so it may not have been that slow. like I said, I need to see it again). DO NOT LEAVE AFTER THE MOVIE FINISHES. WAIT UNTIL THE CREDITS ARE OVER.;) I give it two thuimbs up:thumbs1: and a 9.8 out of 10. go see it:D

Hindy
05-15-2003, 11:31 AM
Dam gotta wait till 21st to c it!!!!!

HertogJan
05-15-2003, 11:46 AM
Thx, I'll stick around untill after the credits then :)

ET Warrior
05-15-2003, 11:46 AM
The fight scene with AGent smith was quite possibly one of the coolest things that I have ever seen in a movie.......EVER.

It was just complete coolness, and I'm going ot see it again Friday.

Darklighter
05-15-2003, 01:23 PM
Gah! Too many Matrix spoiler threads! ><

Could we please try to keep all Matrix Reloaded related posts to one thread? It would make this so much easier and less confusing. Thank you.

*Merged*

Chewbacco
05-15-2003, 01:39 PM
The reviewers estimate that the movie will make over a $150 million in the weekend. And I heard when the movie came out, Trinity became the 74th most popular name in the U.S.:eek: I want to see it so bad but my mom is questioning the rating of the movie. She saw sexuality in it and she is thinking about it. :(

greedo626
05-15-2003, 01:43 PM
I'd say the sexuality in the film is for those older than 14. it's not really graphic but it is drawn out.

Chewbacco
05-15-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by greedo626
I'd say the sexuality in the film is for those older than 14. it's not really graphic but it is drawn out.
Yah, reveiwers recommend an audience of boys over 14.
And girls over 13. (There more mature than boys, you know):rolleyes:

RoguePhotonic
05-15-2003, 01:53 PM
I also have one good question? Who the hell is that guy that keeps coming up to Neo and thanking him for unplugging him? I was thinking that it was the Spoon boy but then he get's the gift so we know that it couldn't of been him?


2 words...the animatrix.........

It's the episode called kid's story....

Ratmjedi
05-15-2003, 05:10 PM
Well I haven't seen that one yet. I have only seen the First Recon, The one with the Samuari, and Detective Story. I haven't seen sny of the other's. Thanks for the info ;)

:lsduel: :duel:

Boba Rhett
05-15-2003, 08:34 PM
Just got back from seeing it again and the good news is that it's still pants meltingly good! :D

Jo
05-15-2003, 09:17 PM
welli personally loved this movie. i just hated the end...curse those green letters!!!it was worth seeing at 10 pm at night..Im really satisfied. and the Smith vs. Neo fight scene will never be able to be copied..it is very unique

ckcsaber
05-15-2003, 09:37 PM
I've seen the flick AND I agree with Harry's review as well.

WTF was Neo doing??! It was just king-fu over and over again! This is supposed to be an epic with Neo's powers growing beyond kung-fu and all that other cool stuff (Although that scene near the end with Neo using powers against machines OUTSIDE the Matrix opens a lot of new possibilities....).

Zion really dissapointed me. The weird dance scene was stupid as was the drawn out sex scene.

The Oracle and Merovingian (Frenchy dude) and the Architect were all great. I really like how the Architect threw it all at Neo, destroying all of that prophecy stuff.

It was a good movie, but really lacks a lot of what the original had.

Boba Rhett
05-15-2003, 09:43 PM
You really would have enjoyed the movie more if Neo had just walked around blinking at the bad guys and having them disappear?

ckcsaber
05-15-2003, 09:51 PM
I would have enjoyed the movie more if Neo actually GREW his powers, went beyond hand to hand combat. He is THE ONE! He needs not dirty himself with kung-fu! He is above that! I want to see him shatter the Matrix, and if it takes a mere blink, I'd be happy (although I believe the trilogy will end with something similar).

I did not want to see Neo all powerful in this movie. He is still learning to reach that level. I wanted to see him growing his powers. Instead, we see him fight hundreds of guys. We already knew he could fight by the end of the original. Now what? MORE fighting?

Eldritch
05-16-2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by ckcsaber
I did not want to see Neo all powerful in this movie. He is still learning to reach that level. I wanted to see him growing his powers. Instead, we see him fight hundreds of guys. We already knew he could fight by the end of the original. Now what? MORE fighting?

It seems to me that going from having trouble defeating one agent (Smith) to kicking 100 Smith's butts qualifies as growth, even if he is still using martial arts.

I agree 100% with Rhett. I've seen it twice (last night and today), and it rules. Those who didn't like it are just not intelligent enough to comprehend the high level of philosophic banter that went on.

Oh, and Rhett... Neo is the 6th "one," not the 7th, as stated in your original post. The Architect says, "This will be the 6th time we have destroyed Zion, and we have become exceedingly good at it."

wassup
05-16-2003, 01:05 AM
WOW...I think I'm going to die from all this excitement!!

Anyways, I just have one quick question -

I've heard rumors that one of the preview trailers is an LOTR: Return of the King one. Is this true and has this been confirmed?

:D

Eldritch
05-16-2003, 02:25 AM
If it is, I didn't see it.

The trailers I saw were...

Finding Nemo (Disney/Pixar thing)
T3
Freddy VS. Jason :rolleyes: That one got a few laughs from the audience
The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
I think there was one more, but I can't remember it right now.

Ratmjedi
05-16-2003, 02:42 AM
Well the trailers that we saw were

T3
Pirates of the Carribean
The Last Samurai
The French Connection


Also watching it for the Second time you actually get to concentrate on conversations and you pick up new things that you didn't notice in the first one. You also comprehend them better.

:lsduel: :duel:

Boba Rhett
05-16-2003, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch


Oh, and Rhett... Neo is the 6th "one," not the 7th, as stated in your original post. The Architect says, "This will be the 6th time we have destroyed Zion, and we have become exceedingly good at it."


Doh! Nice catch. :D


The whole RotK trailer thing was just a rumor. We won't be seeing a RotK trailer for quite a while. :(

Eldritch
05-16-2003, 02:49 AM
Thanks, Ratmjedi... The Last Samurai was the other one I saw that I couldn't think of. :)

I was definitely able to process all that stuff the Architect said the second time around. I mean, the first time I saw it I was still all caught up in the excitement of the moment. :D

And no problem, Rhett.

ET Warrior
05-16-2003, 03:00 AM
I was totally blown away by that movie, although I do agree with whoever was upset by the zion dancing and drawn out sex scene.....I could have done without those.

Otherwise everything fulfilled my expectations and more. Neo is just completely outrageously bad-ass.......the Freeway scene made me wet myself.......it's good......very very good.

Although it created more questions than it answered.........God I want Revolutions to be out RIGHT now.

Ratmjedi
05-16-2003, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by Boba Rhett
Doh! Nice catch. :D


The whole RotK trailer thing was just a rumor. We won't be seeing a RotK trailer for quite a while. :(

I was hoping to see a ROTK trailer. Me and my friends were like please let it be. I just want to know when we are going to be able to see it.

I also know what you mean ET. I am going to try to get Enter The Matrix as soon as I can cause I want to more about the documents and how they were obtained and I also want to get the Animatrix DVD. I think it might also help me get more of the movie that I may have not gotten or that would just make something better.

:lsduel: :duel:

ckcsaber
05-16-2003, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch
It seems to me that going from having trouble defeating one agent (Smith) to kicking 100 Smith's butts qualifies as growth, even if he is still using martial arts.


He did kinda kick their butts, but in the end he just flew away. Rather anti-climactic, don’t ya think?

I still liked this movie. The action was great and it progressed the plot through the Archeitect, yet it is pale in comparison to the Original.

Death_Jedi
05-16-2003, 10:01 AM
OMFG THE MATRIX RELOADED IS THE BEST MOVIE EVER
i had back row seats and all if u wanna no about it heres a spoiler
There is soooo many cool fight he like beats the crap out of about 100 agent andersons and he gets this big pole and he smacks then like 50 feet through the air, Anget smith is not a agent of the matrix anymore he is a free man. the twins arnt in it for long . and its only half a movie so there will be a 3rd one oooo i cant wait. also when neo is fighting the agent smiths they all jump on him then he jumps up and they all go flying through the air then neo flys away and all the agent smiths are like , uh ....ok and they are just standing around looking at each other then they just start to walk off like nothing ever happened and there is a bit of humor in it....i wont say any more for now intill you all see it

EDIT: sorry i just noticed there waz another topic about this but i waz to dam excited i just had to shear it ....with out checking first..sorry

BCanr2d2
05-16-2003, 10:19 AM
Did you like the ending?................................ It all ended where it began.......

Death_Jedi
05-16-2003, 10:59 AM
it was a bit weird it just left off in the middle of know where and that other guy beside Neo was that the guy who was gonna stab him the one that cut his hand?

BCanr2d2
05-16-2003, 10:59 AM
Remember what the Oracle said, Neo doesn't totally understand it all, so it is his comprehension of the Matrix, or lack thereof that is holding him back....

Expect Revolutions to be where Neo becomes a lot more like we expect him.......

BCanr2d2
05-16-2003, 11:03 AM
Here:

That is the guy that is in fact one of the Agents, who somehow was in the body of this guy. That lends itself to a Matrix inside a Matrix inside a........ No other way to explain how an Agent makes it supposedly into the real world.


I'll have to see that little gift that people have said exists after the credits, I left before they finished.....

ckcsaber
05-16-2003, 11:22 AM
That guy is NOT an Agent. It is Smith, who is now on his own side

Chewbacco
05-16-2003, 12:26 PM
Why is Smith trying to kill neo but he can't. Neo is invincibe in the Matrix. besides in the bunch-o-Smiths fight scene, Neo stays and fights. Why doesn't he just fly away. I don't understand that.:confused:

Death_Jedi
05-16-2003, 12:27 PM
it could have been
near the start when one of the agent smith's went through the phone into the real world

And i wonder if

the twins will return becouse they did there water trick thingy when they were getting blown up

And if neo flew away the movie would suck cas that was really one of the best parts

ET Warrior
05-16-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Chewbacco
Why is Smith trying to kill neo but he can't. Neo is invincibe in the Matrix. besides in the bunch-o-Smiths fight scene, Neo stays and fights. Why doesn't he just fly away. I don't understand that.:confused:

Neo isn't actually invincible in the Matrix. He can still be killed, it's just....really really really hard to kill him.

I think he fought the Smiths because you've seen he needs to crouch down and cause the ripple effect in the ground before he takes off, and the only opportunity he had to do that without getting kicked in the face was right after he knocked all the Smiths off of him. Otherwise he didn't have room.

Darklighter
05-16-2003, 02:34 PM
Death_Jedi, and all others heed this advice, please keep all these "I Just saw Matrix Reloaded!!" and general M2:R spoiler posts in one thread (aka this one) from now on.

Thank you.

*threads merged*

ET Warrior
05-16-2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by ckcsaber
He did kinda kick their butts, but in the end he just flew away. Rather anti-climactic, don’t ya think?

Not really, after that much action and fighting, he had to know there was no way he could beat that many smiths.....i mean, for every one that he knocked 5,000 feet away with a pole, 20 more came running in and as soon as one of them hit him they were all on top of him.........flying away seemed the only logical course of action for him to take.......


I also wouldn't say he KINDA kicked their butts......he DESTROYED them, especially given the odds against him.

Acrylic
05-16-2003, 07:58 PM
Ok, I have questions about the sex scene(s)...I'm 14. Would it be really bad for me to see or not?

Boba Rhett
05-16-2003, 08:03 PM
You don't see any danglies or frontol protrusions in the sex scenes. At the end though you do get a brief glimpse of Neo's hip...

Acrylic
05-16-2003, 08:08 PM
Oh, ok. So, in other words, it would be alright to see it?

Boba Rhett
05-16-2003, 08:10 PM
Yeah I guess. It's pretty long and drawn out though. The only nudity I saw was that some women in the zion crowd had see-through shirts. That's just for a second though.

Silent_Thunder
05-16-2003, 08:48 PM
Boba... Could you please explain this so called "Zion crowd" scene? Just trying to get an idea how appropriate it is...

Boba Rhett
05-16-2003, 09:03 PM
Like a huge dance party with what looked to be like thousands of people jumping around. It seemed like a pretty sensual thing. The see-thru shirts are seen when a few people dance across the screen for a sec.

Silent_Thunder
05-16-2003, 09:12 PM
Ah, thanks. I had a much different impression from previous posts, heh :)... I just wonder how explicit the sex scenes are (I know posters have said "not very, but drawn out", but in more detail).

But one more question, if you don't mind... What's this about a Chocolate cake... just out of sheer curiousity ;)?

Boba Rhett
05-16-2003, 09:18 PM
The sex scenes show alot of kissing and movement and it goes on for a while. I guess Neo's a stallion.

*polishes his official stallion merrit badge* :D

About the cake. Heh, well there's this guy (he's a program) called Merovingian and they go to see him. They are sitting in this restaurant and he looks over at this woman who's eating and he says that he's sent her a special dessert. A piece of cake that he, "programmed" himself. Then you see her at the table and she's wide eyed and it goes into matrix code and you see an explosion in her code. :D


Here's a picture to give you an idea of what the big zion crowd looks like.

Silent_Thunder
05-16-2003, 09:28 PM
Thanks for the descriptions, I think I have an idea about those scenes now... Especially about the cake, lol.

That underground (zion party) scene looks pretty cool.

BTW, where'd you get that picture from?

Boba Rhett
05-16-2003, 09:31 PM
A Forest Midget.





:D



It's from the Reloaded teaser trailer.

Matt-Liell
05-16-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Boba Rhett
You don't see any danglies or frontol protrusions in the sex scenes. At the end though you do get a brief glimpse of Neo's hip...

Don't ya see Trinity Naked though? And I haven't seen it yet but my friend says you see "ERRRR something happen" in slow motion.

Boba Rhett
05-16-2003, 09:46 PM
You see that she *is* naked but you don't see any of her upper or lower, "parts", except maybe the side of her upper thigh in one shot.

Matt-Liell
05-16-2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Boba Rhett
You see that she *is* naked but you don't see any of her, "parts", except maybe the side of her upper thigh in one shot.

Ok, stupid friend I think he saw what he wanted to see!:p

Darklighter
05-16-2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Matt-Liell
Ok, stupid friend I think he saw what he wanted to see!:p

Teenagers:rolleyes:

*is also one*

Know how ya feel:p;)

I'm gonna skillfully avoid all these flying spoilers, and get the hell outta this thread!

*runs and trips*

Andy867
05-17-2003, 03:21 AM
I have a brief correction for you Rhett, Neo is actually only the 6th version, like the guy said, there were 5 other versions, and all the other "Neos" started to say what version they supposedly were. And in regards to the sex scene. The only real nudity we see is of Neo's crack, which I wouldn't want to see anyways. I felt the Zion celebration dragged on to long, as well, as some of the philosophical jargan like in the end with the father of the matrix.

Boba Rhett
05-17-2003, 03:23 AM
Eldritch beat ya to it, Andy. :D

Andy867
05-17-2003, 04:37 AM
Yea, well, I was probably watching Matrix Reloaded for the 2nd time in 3 days when he corrected ya :P:) Yea, I saw it on Wednesday, and my girlfriend and I saw it tonight.

Did anyone notice though that the Katana was missing after Agent Thompson jumped onto the rig where Morpheus and the keymaker were? They did a flyby, but I didn't see it on either side.

Eldritch
05-17-2003, 05:04 AM
Originally posted by Andy867
Yea, well, I was probably watching Matrix Reloaded for the 2nd time in 3 days when he corrected ya :P:) Yea, I saw it on Wednesday, and my girlfriend and I saw it tonight.

Did anyone notice though that the Katana was missing after Agent Thompson jumped onto the rig where Morpheus and the keymaker were? They did a flyby, but I didn't see it on either side.

Actually, I posted that correction after I had already seen it a second time, so I beat ya there too, Andy-man. ;)

I saw it Wednesday night, and then Thursday around noon. :P

Personally, I thought the movie was great... I love all the philosophical discussion, particularly with the Architect. They really put you in this movie, and I don't think most people (or critics) understand that.
The Architect essentially says to Neo, "some of the things I tell you, you may not understand," then goes and rattles off words that most people have never heard in regular conversation before. Just one example.

Oh, I also highly recommend buying Enter the Matrix, as it does more than just fill you in on backstory. Besides the great story, it's an awesome game as well.

HertogJan
05-17-2003, 06:11 AM
OK I saw the movie last night and well... I dunno what to think of it... Some of the action scenes are pretty sweet and I'm sure the Burly Brawl (I believe that's what it's called) is a classic scene already...

But I didn't have the same excitement as in the lobby scene in the matrix 1, that's too bad! And all those questions, wtf! This is the 6th time someone like Neo tries to destroy the matrix, but it never happened and Zion has fallen for 5 times? Well that indeed WOULD mean that Zion is also located in some sort of Matrix, *sigh*

It would also mean that Neo HIMSELF is nothing more that another program in this Matrix. So in revolutions they are trying to get to the other matrix :confused: :confused: :confused:

Listen I liked The Matrix because of it's story and the actionscenes. Reloaded had the action scenes (freeway roxx!), but the story sounded too 'far fetched' (hehe for as far as that can happen in a sci-fi movie)... When Neo stopped the sentinels and went into a coma I really was kinda dissapointed and I had that feeling, afterwards, that I wasn't excited, but full of unanswered questions...

Andy867
05-17-2003, 06:25 AM
But that was the whole idea of ending the movie that way. People are meant to leave with unanswered questions, hence the reason why The Matrix: Revolutions is being released in November of this year, and not May of 2004. The problem with people going to see the Matrix Reloaded is that they have this oversized idea of expectations that this movie will somehow blow the first Matrix to smitherens. Which could or couldn't happen. Introducing bullet-time into a movie like the Matrix was superb. Definitely made the movie what it is today, and how in 2002, more than 20 films had copied the idea of bullet-time in one way or another. People really need to get into the habit of NOT watching any of the trailers or previews, and just go into the movie as if they had never seen anything like it. And never saw the first Matrix as well. That was my take, which is why for the most part, I thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

BCanr2d2
05-17-2003, 07:34 AM
Hertog, to leave with so many unanswered questions is what I believe what the movie is meant to do........

They started to show this Matrix in a Matrix kind of thing, with Neo seeing things from inside the Matrix, ie Trinity's fall, along with Smith going into the "real" world, and Neo doing his "The One" impression, along with the powers in what is meant to be the real world....

That harks back to the first movie, that the world has the wool pulled over their eyes, including us who watch them. Not until Neo stops the sentinels do you really think that "Since when can he do that outside of the Matrix?" and all the different connotations of what this real world is. Just when you thought that you understood what the Matrix was, and Neo's role in it, they say "I don't think so" right at the end...

As for the movie, everyone liked it for the original idea and orginal use of bullet-time. Of course the sequel will not be as original, but I think it is a lot better than the first one in so many ways. It has some great action, and about 1000000000000000000 unanswered questions...

Oh, and I'd like to be able to make that Cake!!!

Lunatic Jedi
05-17-2003, 07:45 AM
And I would be happy to eat that cake!

Wait... maybe I wouldn't... uh oh...

*Code explosion*

HertogJan
05-17-2003, 09:18 AM
*sigh* yes... don't misunderstand me please, I like the movie, but I'm not sure whether I like the questions that remain or hate them...

I think that the effect of this movie is going to surprise everyone... I didn't read one review that mentions all those questions, do these guys actually see the movie?? Or only the fight scenes??

It sure makes me eager to look for the answers... I guess we are what Neo was in the beginning of The Matrix: a person dying to find an answer to the question 'What is the Matrix?' :D

For now, I'll say I liked the movie, but please give us a good answer in the final movie!! There musn't be things that are skipped in any way! I want to know who and what the twins are, about the french guy, what smith is, what the oracle is, what the architect is, what neo is, what the 'real world is', how to bake that cake etc... I WANT IT ALL!!! But I fear they are going to screw up the final movie... please don't :(

Acrylic
05-17-2003, 11:35 AM
My GOD! I'm reading posts with SO MANY spoilers!!! Why dont you put them inside the spoiler thingys? Or at least warn us???? :mad:

HertogJan
05-17-2003, 11:55 AM
Because I want a thread where we can discuss the movie freely!! Please can someone add [SPOILERS!] to the title of this thread?? If no-one does, I'll have to post everything between spoiler tags :rolleyes:

Acrylic
05-17-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by HertogJan
Because I want a thread where we can discuss the movie freely!! Please can someone add [SPOILERS!] to the title of this thread?? If no-one does, I'll have to post everything between spoiler tags :rolleyes:

WEll, to post something in between spoiler tags is NOT hard, unless you call 1 extra click of a mouse button hard. :rolleyes:

HertogJan
05-17-2003, 01:02 PM
But then we'd have a thread full of big white boxes :rolleyes: I think ppl who haven't seen the movie just shouldn't come here :)

ET Warrior
05-17-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by HertogJan
I want to know who and what the twins are, about the french guy, what smith is, what the oracle is, what the architect is, what neo is,

The twins are deleted programs in the matrix.....while we are unsure of what program they were initially, we know that they chose to remain in the matrix instead of returning to the source for removal.

The french guy is the same...just a different program.

Smith is unplugged from the matrix because of the way that Neo destroyed him in the last movie.

The oracle is also a deleted program in the matrix...while we know she is NOT the mother of the matrix, as the Architect made apparent, she is PROBABLY another method of control, meant to bring Neo in to the Architect so his code could be re-assimilated.

The architect is the creator of the matrix....

Neo is the one, an occurance caused by the sum of a remainder of an inherently unbalanced equation in the matrix, that, despite the architects sincere efforts, has not been able to be corrected.





All of those were answered in Reloaded....................

Ratmjedi
05-17-2003, 03:47 PM
Nicely put ET :D

Did you write that all down when at the movie? I remembered everything else but what Neo was, it was to long and I couldn't say it back except that he was a anomally.

I didn't bother with the questions that were presented to me in the movie. I just came up with new one's and I just let my imagination fly away so right now I am thinking there are so many possibilites.

:lsduel: :duel:

ET Warrior
05-17-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Ratmjedi
Did you write that all down when at the movie? I remembered everything else but what Neo was, it was to long and I couldn't say it back except that he was a anomally.

No, didn't write it down.....I saw it for the second time last night, and it sorta stuck with me, the way that the matrix is all just a big equation and neo is just the remainders that couldn't be calculated.......

HertogJan
05-17-2003, 06:00 PM
OK...

So there are multiple programs in the Matrix that were supposed to be deleted... But they refused, so in a way they're rebellions too! Still, the system doesn't sent agents to kill them!

I believe they're still working for the system then, after all, Merovingian (hehe I hate that name) has captured the keymaker and he's holding him.

And Neo isn't a program, but a human? I thought the architect said the one was meant to be, so they could test the system?? Could be my mistake though. And is there really another matrix, that the rebels in Zion perceive (hehe great word :) did I use it correctly?? :p) to be reality?


Well thx for all your answers, but one very important question remains... How do I bake that cake?? I know I could make a lot of girls happy with it :hearteye: :hearteye:

Eldritch
05-17-2003, 08:00 PM
Hertog,

The system does want them deleted permanently, and will use agents to do so (just like that one agent tried to with the Keymaker). The Merovingian I don't believe is a deleted program, just an old program. As for Zion being in some other part of the Matrix... well, I don't think that's true, because it'd be too much of a rip-off of the movie The 13th Floor. If you watch it, you'll see what I mean, and I give the Brothers "W" more credit for creativity than that. I do have a lot of religious friends that INSIST to me that this movie is totally based on the bible, though. :rolleyes:

And forget about the cake. It's unlikely you'll be able to make such a cake in your lifetime. :)

Lunatic Jedi
05-17-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by HertogJan
Well thx for all your answers, but one very important question remains... How do I bake that cake?? I know I could make a lot of girls happy with it :hearteye: :hearteye:

You could annihilate the coding of a lot of girls with it. :rolleyes: Let me guess, you'd use it to delete their inhibitions? That's creepy! PERVERT!!! :eek:

ZBomber
05-18-2003, 01:11 AM
I saw the Matrix. It was great. :D

Andy867
05-18-2003, 02:29 AM
Actually, I don't think that the Oracle is a deleted program, since that french guy said now since you are good at following orders, here is one from me. Go back to the Fortuneteller and tell that her time is almost up. which means she is still active in the system, just un hiding because of the enemies. But I do believe when the Architect said that she would be its mother, I do think he was talking about the oracle, because like he said, the other 99% of test subjects just accepted the programming that way it was, but she was different, and helped make it different.

ET Warrior
05-18-2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by HertogJan
So there are multiple programs in the Matrix that were supposed to be deleted... But they refused, so in a way they're rebellions too! Still, the system doesn't sent agents to kill them!

I believe they're still working for the system then, after all, Merovingian (hehe I hate that name) has captured the keymaker and he's holding him.

And Neo isn't a program, but a human? I thought the architect said the one was meant to be, so they could test the system?? Could be my mistake though. And is there really another matrix, that the rebels in Zion perceive (hehe great word :) did I use it correctly?? :p) to be reality?

I dont believe that they are working FOR the system....but they're not working AGAINST the system. And the agents could have a really difficult time killing them, especially ones like the Twins, and it could end up being more of an effort than it's really worth, because they're not actually causing the system any trouble. The fact that the Merovingian is holding the keymaker also insinuates that he is NOT working for the system, because the agents were trying to Kill the Key Maker.

Neo is certainly a human, if he were a program then he would not have been able to be unplugged from the matrix and roam around the "real world" Although whether or not it's really real is up for debate........

The one isn't so much meant to be, as he is something that happens and cannot be stopped, but they can anticipate it and therefore control it......except that Neo chose not to do what was expected of him.

I think that the Merovingian IS a deleted program, because the matrix wouldn't bother keeping around an old program that serves no purpose.....and if he DID serve a purpose then he would be invisible and you wouldn't even know he was there. Thus I believe he was deleted but chose to remain in exile instead of returning to the source.

That was long.....and now, for another topic of interest to me...



This is about the Oracle.....is she good? or is she just another method of control?

After the first movie we all assumed that the Oracle was intending to help the humans and Neo. Then when Neo meets with the Oracle in Reloaded and she gives him the advice she does, I still assumed she was trying to help.

But then after Neo talked to the Architecht.....I have to wonder....her Prophesy was apparently a lie, intended only to lure Neo to the source so his code could be reassimilated into the matrix and Zion destroyed and rebuilt by new people from the matrix. Therefore, the Oracle seems to be bad.

BUT, we've seen that the Oracle knows what Neo's decisions will be, and that he's already made his decision and his purpose is to figure out why he made them. So the Oracle reasonably SHOULD have known that Neo would choose NOT to be reassimilated, and choose to to save Trinity.......risking the extinction of the human race.....but still possibly saving all humans from their enslavement.

So is the Oracle just another method of control? Or is she looking out for the humans on this one?

HertogJan
05-18-2003, 07:27 AM
I think I'm beginning to understand what the architect meant. He said the one will choose 23 ppl I believe: 14 women, 9 men or something. Those will be liberated from their slavery and they will build up a new Zion...

But it's still weird that the system WANTS a new Zion. Maybe because the rebels can show the weaknesses in the Matrix??

As for the reason why Neo stopped the sentinels; we'll have to wait :)

And I believe the oracle is good, but she is used by the system; just like Neo is being used by the system so they can discover new weaknesses. But I don't know it for sure :)

And I would use the cake for good purposes :) Many women have to fake orgasms (hey not with me of course ;)) and now they don't have to!! Isn't that worth fighting for?? :p

Death_Jedi
05-18-2003, 08:10 AM
iv been through a few matrix posts and they say to stay intill the credits are all done i didnt. so what happens?

Lunatic Jedi
05-18-2003, 08:30 AM
There's a Revolutions trailer at the end of the credits.

Oh and Hertog, YES, that is worth fighting for. That IS worth dying for. :p

Death_Jedi
05-18-2003, 08:33 AM
ok cool im going to see it again so i just wanted to know
do ya think the twins will be in the 3rd one cas they wernt in reloaded for long and when the car exploded they did there "nice trick" so they might not be dead

Lunatic Jedi
05-18-2003, 08:34 AM
I certainly hope so. The Twins were awesome. :D

Death_Jedi
05-18-2003, 08:45 AM
yea but they looked pretty funny though ay, when you 1st saw them 1st and they were sitting on the chairs , i laughed at that
not to be rasist or anything but hes white white dreeds white cloths, funny look

HertogJan
05-18-2003, 12:13 PM
Yeah but it's too bad you don't know anything about them :( They're much cooler than Merovingian and his vampire bull**** :mad:

Andy867
05-18-2003, 02:23 PM
Somehow I get the Feeling that the twins won't be back, because Morpheus seemed to know what to do to kill them (shooting the car to make it explode, and kill them in the process since they couldn't die by any man-made object. Kind of like how the vampires could have been dangerous, but Persophene, used her silver bullets to take care of the one right off the bat(no pun intended).

ET Warrior
05-18-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
Actually, I don't think that the Oracle is a deleted program, since that french guy said now since you are good at following orders, here is one from me. Go back to the Fortuneteller and tell that her time is almost up. which means she is still active in the system, just un hiding because of the enemies. But I do believe when the Architect said that she would be its mother, I do think he was talking about the oracle, because like he said, the other 99% of test subjects just accepted the programming that way it was, but she was different, and helped make it different.

The architecht said that she WASNT it's mother. When He talks about the mother Neo says "The Oracle" and the architecht says "oh please" Insinuating that he wasn't talking about the Oracle. She IS a deleted program, because not-deleted programs can't be seen or noticed. Being deleted but choosing to remain in exile leaves you in the matrix, looking like a person, but then if the deleted program is killed, they're destroyed.

ckcsaber
05-18-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by HertogJan
Yeah but it's too bad you don't know anything about them :( They're much cooler than Merovingian and his vampire bull**** :mad:

Actually, I think Merovinigan was one of the high points of the movie.

I love this line (regarding cursing in French) :

"It's like wiping your ass with silk".

Andy867
05-18-2003, 04:57 PM
Actually, ET, I believe the Architect was scoffing at the name Oracle as a way of describing the "mother of the matrix." I say that because in my latest research, I uncovered an article about the Secrets of the New Matrix in which Time Magazine writes and I quote,
"Watching the first film, skeptical viewers had to wonder: In a world where nothing was as it seemed, were Morpheus and his band the only realists, or were they the victims of a monstrous delusion? The Architect tells Neo he is a dupe: a false hope that springs among the tiny group of rebels who believe in a superman, a One, as their salvation. The coming of Neo and his five predecessors—for this is the sixth version of The Matrix, the sixth revolt of Zion—was programmed by "the mother of The Matrix." The Oracle."

So as you can see, The Oracle is in fact the mother of the matrix. Remember, she said most programs that are doing their jobs are invisible and you wouldn't even know they were there. But just like the Architect, Neo was also able to see the Oracle because of her superiority.

ET Warrior
05-18-2003, 05:27 PM
I dont know.....Time magazine may have gotten it wrong.......

I just. Don't. Know.

Lightsaberboy
05-18-2003, 05:28 PM
maybe that's what they want us to think. Maybe the mother is someone else.....right under our noses.......

and did the twins die, cause when the car exploded they kinda phased like they usually did.

and when did tank die? He was so cool.....i missed him..

Ratmjedi
05-18-2003, 07:26 PM
Well in response to your post about them picking new people to rebuild Zion HertogJan i.e.

But it's still weird that the system WANTS a new Zion. Maybe because the rebels can show the weaknesses in the Matrix??

They need to have a Zion. It is the only place were the people that are going to reject the programming can go. If there was no Zion then they would lose entire crops again because they wouldn't need to reload the Matrix again. It is a necessity for the Matrix or else it will be to perfect and we all know what happened with the first Matrix.

as for funny lines ckcsaber I liked it when he was talking about cause and effect and he said I drank to much wine so now I must take a piss.

I also liked the way that Persophene and the Merovingian just talk back on each other. Such a lovely relationship wouldn't you say ;)

:lsduel: :duel:

Pad
05-19-2003, 09:51 AM
i watched it last night and whoa :eek:

its starting really hard to understand now.
and heres what i believe:

maybe the french dude is a previous one who like neo is unplugged and can control things. writing programs and maybe made the twins.

smith is an unplugged virus trying to take control over the matrix and sees neo as a big threat. thats why he goes to the real world (if it even exist)

neo and the rebels are merely objects to test the matrix. with evry rebuilding of the matrix less flaws are inserted.

zion is part of the matrix otherwise i dont see smith goin there and neo stoppin those sentinels.

Matt-Liell
05-19-2003, 10:27 AM
Possibly going to see it today! YAY!:D

Eldritch
05-19-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Padanime
i watched it last night and whoa :eek:

its starting really hard to understand now.
and heres what i believe:

maybe the french dude is a previous one who like neo is unplugged and can control things. writing programs and maybe made the twins.
I don't think so. The Oracle said it herself... he's a [old and very dangerous] program, not a previous "One."

smith is an unplugged virus trying to take control over the matrix and sees neo as a big threat. thats why he goes to the real world (if it even exist)
I don't think so here, either. Smith was an agent that disobeyed the rules of the system by not returning to the Source once he was destroyed. By doing that, he also was no longer bound by the rules applied to him as an Agent and thus could do other things (like make copies of himself).

neo and the rebels are merely objects to test the matrix. with evry rebuilding of the matrix less flaws are inserted.
zion is part of the matrix otherwise i dont see smith goin there and neo stoppin those sentinels.
There have been multiple "Matrix within a Matrix theories." None of them sound convincing to me. Here's what I think.
What they think is the Real World IS the Real World. Smith was able to get out because he inserted himself into the hardware that goes directly into Bane's brain. Remember that plug that goes into the back of their head used to enter the Matrix? That goes into their brain. When in the Matrix, Bane will look like Smith. But when outside the Matrix in the real world, Smith will look like Bane because it's not a virtual world. To me, this is also strong evidence that the Real World is not a second Matrix, because if it were, Bane would look like Smith outside as well.
Neo stopping the sentinels is harder to explain, but here goes my other theory: Neo is more "machine" than most other people that were plugged in (the Architect said something about a process yet Neo remains human, which is why some of his answers he would understand and some not... the "machine" part would be able to understand the Architect's answers). Perhaps some of Smith was imprinted onto Neo. Smith says it himself when they first meet... "You're aware of it? [What?] Our connection." In the first movie, the Agents were able to call on the Sentinels and communicate with them, so that's why he was able to stop the Sentinels in the Real World.

Matt-Liell
05-19-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Padanime
i watched it last night and whoa

its starting really hard to understand now.
and heres what i believe:

maybe the french dude is a previous one who like neo is unplugged and can control things. writing programs and maybe made the twins.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't think so. The Oracle said it herself... he's a [old and very dangerous] program, not a previous "One."


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
smith is an unplugged virus trying to take control over the matrix and sees neo as a big threat. thats why he goes to the real world (if it even exist)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't think so here, either. Smith was an agent that disobeyed the rules of the system by not returning to the Source once he was destroyed. By doing that, he also was no longer bound by the rules applied to him as an Agent and thus could do other things (like make copies of himself).


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
neo and the rebels are merely objects to test the matrix. with evry rebuilding of the matrix less flaws are inserted.
zion is part of the matrix otherwise i dont see smith goin there and neo stoppin those sentinels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There have been multiple "Matrix within a Matrix theories." None of them sound convincing to me. Here's what I think.
What they think is the Real World IS the Real World. Smith was able to get out because he inserted himself into the hardware that goes directly into Bane's brain. Remember that plug that goes into the back of their head used to enter the Matrix? That goes into their brain. When in the Matrix, Bane will look like Smith. But when outside the Matrix in the real world, Smith will look like Bane because it's not a virtual world. To me, this is also strong evidence that the Real World is not a second Matrix, because if it were, Bane would look like Smith outside as well.
Neo stopping the sentinels is harder to explain, but here goes my other theory: Neo is more "machine" than most other people that were plugged in (the Architect said something about a process yet Neo remains human, which is why some of his answers he would understand and some not... the "machine" part would be able to understand the Architect's answers). Perhaps some of Smith was imprinted onto Neo. Smith says it himself when they first meet... "You're aware of it? [What?] Our connection." In the first movie, the Agents were able to call on the Sentinels and communicate with them, so that's why he was able to stop the Sentinels in the Real World.


Thats awesome, very good! I agree totally!

HertogJan
05-19-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch Neo stopping the sentinels is harder to explain, but here goes my other theory: Neo is more "machine" than most other people that were plugged in (the Architect said something about a process yet Neo remains human, which is why some of his answers he would understand and some not... the "machine" part would be able to understand the Architect's answers). Perhaps some of Smith was imprinted onto Neo. Smith says it himself when they first meet... "You're aware of it? [What?] Our connection." In the first movie, the Agents were able to call on the Sentinels and communicate with them, so that's why he was able to stop the Sentinels in the Real World. [/B]

Whoa that's the best theory I've heard!! Nice work :thumbsup:

Oh and I agree with you on the Bane part too, I never doubted that Bane was Smith, but in his real 'body' instead of Smith's :) That's why it was so odd that Neo could stop the sentinels...

But now I wanna know why he went in a coma :) Maybe it's like the coma he got in the first movie. When he comes out of this come, he's even more powerfull, whoaaa :D :)

Pad
05-19-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
I don't think so. The Oracle said it herself... he's a [old and very dangerous] program, not a previous "One."

[b]
I don't think so here, either. Smith was an agent that disobeyed the rules of the system by not returning to the Source once he was destroyed. By doing that, he also was no longer bound by the rules applied to him as an Agent and thus could do other things (like make copies of himself).

[b]
There have been multiple "Matrix within a Matrix theories." None of them sound convincing to me. Here's what I think.
What they think is the Real World IS the Real World. Smith was able to get out because he inserted himself into the hardware that goes directly into Bane's brain. Remember that plug that goes into the back of their head used to enter the Matrix? That goes into their brain. When in the Matrix, Bane will look like Smith. But when outside the Matrix in the real world, Smith will look like Bane because it's not a virtual world. To me, this is also strong evidence that the Real World is not a second Matrix, because if it were, Bane would look like Smith outside as well.
Neo stopping the sentinels is harder to explain, but here goes my other theory: Neo is more "machine" than most other people that were plugged in (the Architect said something about a process yet Neo remains human, which is why some of his answers he would understand and some not... the "machine" part would be able to understand the Architect's answers). Perhaps some of Smith was imprinted onto Neo. Smith says it himself when they first meet... "You're aware of it? [What?] Our connection." In the first movie, the Agents were able to call on the Sentinels and communicate with them, so that's why he was able to stop the Sentinels in the Real World.

thanks for clearin that up Eldritch
btw, werent you known aru-wen?

and thats a nice thought on neo stopping the sentinels in the real world :thumbsup:

Hyperglide
05-19-2003, 07:52 PM
Here's a post I made on another forums:

"The architect said something like "the 5 before you have done what has needed to be done but you are different, you are in love."

So assuming this that means that the previous 5 neo's reset the matrix by destroying the dummy machine mainframe, fundamentally resetting the matrix again. Sort of like a feedback loop. That's what I think. But the Neo of NOW is starting to see that the "real world," is in fact another matrix. You notice at the end he says to Trinity that he "feels something." and then knocks out the Sentinals. This is how I know he's starting to realize that he's in a matrix within a matrix. Don't know how the love interest changes this. Maybe because back in the hallway scene where Neo "dies," and Trinity revives him this causes the "anomoly," which is Agent Smith and this give's Neo the power to see the REAL MATRIX which is the "real world." I just guess the other 5 feedback loops Neo's didn't have Trinity there to alter his perception. Does this make any sense? lol...

Ok i'm confusing even myself but I think I said what I had to say."

This is my theory. Sorry don't know if this has been brought up already I skipped a few posts.

Captain Wilson
05-19-2003, 08:15 PM
I dunno, He might have gone into acoma as if hes has a link with the agents, then he may have ,in a sense, Become an 'Agent' and go to the source. But thats just my idea

XWING5
05-20-2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch
I agree 100% with Rhett. I've seen it twice (last night and today), and it rules. Those who didn't like it are just not intelligent enough to comprehend the high level of philosophic banter that went on.[/SPOILER]

Hey, I take exception to that. I got what he was saying, but after what felt like 20 minutes, I was like "Oh. Come. On" The architect just wouldn't shutup. And Morpheus's drawn out, overly-deliberate speech was starting to wear my patience too. The computer generated fight scenes were cool, but a little funny at the same time. And the fight scenes overall were a bit too long. And I like the fight scenes. I was just ready for the rest of the movie to get going.

Now having said that, I REALLY enjoyed the movie overall. It was very clever and the "revelation" about the history of The Matrix was almost like a kick in the stomach. "Nooooo!" I am so excited about the final chapter. It's cool that it will be out in November.

And even though the credits were forever long (a credit for some guys driver, come on!) the preview for the third is totally worth it.

Eldritch
05-20-2003, 12:52 AM
Glad you guys like my theories. It's all just speculation until we actually see the 3rd and final movie, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

Hyperglide - I still hold that my theory is more probable, but that one's not bad either. I just think that a "Matrix within a Matrix" would be too obvious, and too easily disproven by current evidence.

XWING5 - Didn't mean to insult anyone, it was just meant as kind of a general statement. Personally I don't feel it was drawn out... I thought that the length was appropriate given the subject matter. A lesser amount of time with the Architect would've felt rushed.

Padanime - Yes, my old name was Aru-Wen. ;)

XWING5
05-20-2003, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch
XWING5 - Didn't mean to insult anyone, it was just meant as kind of a general statement. Personally I don't feel it was drawn out... I thought that the length was appropriate given the subject matter. A lesser amount of time with the Architect would've felt rushed.

Good thing, I was about to have to break out the slow motion Matrix moves I learned from this last movie. ;)

Just kidding Eldritch!:p

Death_Jedi
05-20-2003, 03:53 AM
iv been wondering about this the 1st time i saw the matrix (the 1st one)
When neo gets shot by smith. how dose he come back 2 life again, i no trinity kiss's him but i dont get how that helped.

and that guy when neo gets knocked into a coma , the guy who cut his hand and went to stab neo. is that a agent smith trying 2 kill neo in the *real world or what ever it is* becouse they cant do it in the matrix?

STTCT
05-20-2003, 05:38 AM
yes - that guy is Agent Smith. Or so I believe. I believe in one scene in the movie we see smith replicate himself into that guy and then he makes that phone call and gets out into the "real world. Also...that guy is the only one left from the attack from the sentinels...so somehow Smith can stop sentinels just like Neo. So its pretty scarey that guy is laying across from Neo.

Death_Jedi
05-20-2003, 06:24 AM
maybe he stoped some senticals aswell
he could be ''The One#2''

HertogJan
05-20-2003, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Death_Jedi
maybe he stoped some senticals aswell
he could be ''The One#2''

Nah that theory sucks... No offense ;)

"When you die in the matrix, you die in the real world as well: the body can not live without the mind". That's what they said. There is a connection between your mind in the matrix and your body. If your mind gets infiltrated by Agent Smith (who copies himself) in the Matrix, you still are a smith copy (with your own body though) in the real world!!

And keep in mind Neo himself is the one # 6 ;) I think Neo could stop the sentinels because TWICE (once in the first movie, once when Smith tried to copy himself in the second) he was infiltrated by pieces of Smith. He had a direct connection with 'the system' as it exists in the real world, so he could order the sentinals to 'self destruct' or shut down when he was attacked by them...

Eldritch's theory sounds as the best theory so far :)

Death_Jedi
05-20-2003, 08:30 AM
The One#6 :eek: when did u find that out?

and he proberly gets infected when agent smith trys to turn him into a copy of him not when he jumps inside him in the 1st movie.

Then why would that guy be luying beside him in a coma?
well there is more then one ship other then morphus right? so that guy that cut his hand and was gonna stab neo proberly was in it then he was turned into a copy agent smith in the matrix, then he went into the phone and came into his origional body but he is agent smith inside

STTCT
05-20-2003, 08:39 AM
The architect tells Neo that he is the 6th "The One"

I think that it is Neo that infected Mr. Smith when he broke his code in the first movie. Mr. Smith has some of Neo's abilitys...and it seems as if Mr. Smith is figuring out Neo's capabilitys and powers before Neo does!

I believe that the reason that Bain (a guy who was body snatched by Mr. Smith) cut himself is Mr. Smith testing what it's like to be "human" to bleed. Now that Mr. Smith is a rogue program..he too is trying to escape the Matrix in his own personal power trip. He want's to be "The one" and rule the Matrix and that is why he needs to get rid of Neo - since he can't get rid of Neo in the Matrix...he needs to escape to the outside world via Bane and kill Neo there since neo is "only human" and can be killed outside of the Matrix. That's why I don't believe in the Matrix inside a Matrix Crap.

I also feel that the reason Neo can stop Sentenals is for the same reasons. When Neo infectected Mr. Smith his code merged with Smith's. So smith got neo's powers, neo got some smith powers. Including controling Sentenals. That's why he feels something. Neo "feels" or senses the Smiths ...and he now can feel things outside of the matrix...ever since Smith hightailed it to the real world. Now he feels Smith...and can controll sentenals because Smith has the abilty too (Smith controls them in the first movie). I think neo collapsed because it took everything he had to tap into this new power.

Darth Groovy
05-20-2003, 09:24 AM
I saw the movie on Sunday, my overall score would be about 95%, I thought it was big fun, and a pure joy to watch. My only gripes were that it was in fact a bit difficult to follow at times, but not very often. The scene with that annoying French prick, contained too much dialogue and the guy lost me at times with all of his annoying analogies. About halfway through his speech, I felt the dire need to reach into the film and rip out his vocal chords. And just what the hell WAS that French dude anyways? The scene with the Architect lost me completetly, and hopefully will be cleared up in the next film. I thought the white twins were cool, but I don't fully understand exactly what they are, and nobody has been able to answer that for me yet.

I think the general problems with most sequals, is that people these days are much more keen on new ideas and concepts, than continuations of the previous movies. We have seen this with Star Wars, Rocky, Jaws, Men In Black, and other giant big screen movies. The Original Matrix was cool at the time because it had bleneded a certain degree of sci-fi, with martial arts, and had a unique comic book quality to it. I think my own mother said it best when she exclaimed her dislike of martial arts, but was keen on the idea of "Humans as Batteries", to this day the idea still "gives her the creeps". Plus, at the time, like Star Wars, it allowed for groundbreaking special effects. Now that those effects are now a Hollywood norm, it is difficult to impress the general public now. Unlike Rhett, I enjoyed the Highway scene alot, it made me scream at a couple of points, but my favorite scene is definitely Neo beating the crap out of that army of Agent Smiths. Overall I feel the film definitely succeded on inmproving on the first, and like LOTR, we already knew that this film is not just a sequal, but part of a bigger saga, so I don't see what the big deal is. I do agree with Rhett, that the big Zion dance was nothing more than an excursion in blatent erotica, to further enhance the love scene between Neo, and Trinity. That scene was not as explicit as some conservatives have lead us to believe, but we all knew that scene was inevitable, because the romance only started at the end of the first Matrix movie, so basically, it WAS necessary.

I do agree with the public, that we need to see more fresh Ideas, and less sequals these days, but I also feel that fans are too fickle and trying to over-anylize the Matrix movies, is an excersise in futility. Just make the most of it, they are designed for entertainment, not as a science project.

STTCT
05-20-2003, 09:29 AM
they should have stoped making Jaws the second time they killed him.

how many movies can you make about killing a stupid shark

4...oh wait 5 (if you count Orca), no 6 if you count Deep Blue Sea

Don't forget Rocky! how many of those can there be...or Karate Kid....I mean Karate Girl...come on....

Darth Groovy
05-20-2003, 10:15 AM
I personally do not feel that any sequal to Jaws was necessary. Like Psycho, it is a timeless film, that did not leave anything open for a sequal. Yet hollywood in their blatent attempts to make more money, will ALWAYS produce a sequal just to bring in more money. Thankfully, a sequal to E.T. was never made, and rightfully so. I have seen all of the sequals to Jaws, and by the second movie, I was rooting for the shark to chomp everything, because the people were starting to annoy me. Jaws III was only cool to me, because at the time, it was the first 3D movie I had ever seen. But once you take away that 3D element, the movie really sucks. And then we moved on to Jaws 4: The Revenge, that scene where the shark jumps up almost all the way out of the water, and gets stabbed by the bow of the ship, has got to be one of the worst blunders in Hollywood History. Besides, who in their right mind, could ever believe that a shark would attack a specific family, considering that sharks have no brains whatsoever. I rember Orca a silly film that involved a killer whale, starring Richard Harris, that movie was a blatent spin off, that had no redeeming quality whatsover, and the fact that "Orca" was the name of Quint's fishing boat in Jaws only firmly confirms that. The thing that made the original Jaws work so well, was the people that populated the film, and the interaction between the main stars being Cheif Brody(Roy Sheider), Matt Hooper(Richard Dreyfus), and Quint(Robert Shaw), they made the movie memorable.

Deep Blue Sea wasn't terrible, it built on an intersting concept, but eventually turned out to be a typical event movie, with the usual event movie characters, (L.L. Cool J. playing the typical African American comic relief...) with alot of throw away dialogue and typical predictable circumstances. (the one who cries the most, always has to die)

It is just an inevibility that Hollywood is governed by the dollar, not the interests of the intelligent film viewers.

By the way, STTCT, that is a totally awsome sig, I saw the trailer for Finding Nemo, and I have to admit that I am a total Disney buff, and will probably be seeing that movie in a theater!:D

Eldritch
05-20-2003, 10:59 AM
That's pretty much my exact theory, STTCT... been doing some reading? (I posted it earlier) ;)

STTCT
05-20-2003, 11:01 AM
great minds think alike :cool:

Eldritch
05-20-2003, 11:06 AM
Heh... it just seemed logical to me. Well, more logical than some of the other theories floating around out there.

ET Warrior
05-20-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
And just what the hell WAS that French dude anyways? The scene with the Architect lost me completetly, and hopefully will be cleared up in the next film. I thought the white twins were cool, but I don't fully understand exactly what they are, and nobody has been able to answer that for me yet.

I alreayd asnwered allll of your questions higher up.....well, not ALL of them, I didn't completely explain the architect, but watch the movie again and you'll pick up more.....

Just so you don't have to go sifting through all these posts, i'll re-print what I wrote earlier.


The twins are deleted programs in the matrix.....while we are unsure of what program they were initially, we know that they chose to remain in the matrix instead of returning to the source for removal.

The french guy is the same...just a different program.

HertogJan
05-20-2003, 02:20 PM
I just remembered that Merovingian AKA the French Guy said to Neo that he survived all of Neo's predecessors (sp?), so he's a very very old program AND he has faced 'The ones' before :)

Eldritch
05-20-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
I alreayd asnwered allll of your questions higher up.....well, not ALL of them, I didn't completely explain the architect, but watch the movie again and you'll pick up more.....
The Architect is the Artificial Intelligence that designed the Matrix and how to hook the humans up to it. That's it... I thought it was pretty simple.

The twins are deleted programs in the matrix.....while we are unsure of what program they were initially, we know that they chose to remain in the matrix instead of returning to the source for removal.
It was never actually stated in the movie that they are exiled programs (programs are deleted only once they've returned to the source). It seems a safe bet, but I think they're more than just old programs. Many of the Merovingian's thugs are programs from an older version of the Matrix, so they might be as well...

The french guy is the same...just a different program.
Again, it never says that the Merovingian (the French Guy) is an exiled program. They call him old and very dangerous, and power hungry, but never exiled. He obviously wields a great deal of power, as he can write new programs for the Matrix (like the cake).

Hertog - I think his exact words were, "Mark my words boy... and mark them well! I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive you!"

ET Warrior
05-20-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
The Architect is the Artificial Intelligence that designed the Matrix and how to hook the humans up to it. That's it... I thought it was pretty simple.


It was never actually stated in the movie that they are exiled programs (programs are deleted only once they've returned to the source). It seems a safe bet, but I think they're more than just old programs. Many of the Merovingian's thugs are programs from an older version of the Matrix, so they might be as well...


Again, it never says that the Merovingian (the French Guy) is an exiled program. They call him old and very dangerous, and power hungry, but never exiled. He obviously wields a great deal of power, as he can write new programs for the Matrix (like the cake).


Well yeah, we know that the Architecht was the creator of the matrix, but I think Groovy was confused about the message that he gave to Neo more than what he was......

And no, it does not explicitly state that they are exiled programs....but it does so indirectly when the Oracle talks about how vampires and ghosts are just instances of exiled programs.....I forget the exact words she used........

And you can't for sure say that MANY of his thugs are from older versions of the matrix....two of them at least, yes.....but even so, if they are from older versions they were probably slated for deletion, but chose to remain in exile.

Eldritch
05-20-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Well yeah, we know that the Architecht was the creator of the matrix, but I think Groovy was confused about the message that he gave to Neo more than what he was......
I've actually got the whole Architect scene's dialogue written out on my computer... think it would help if I posted it?

HertogJan
05-20-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
I've actually got the whole Architect scene's dialogue written out on my computer... think it would help if I posted it?

I wonder why you didn't already :)

ET Warrior
05-20-2003, 05:30 PM
I dont know.....it might help those that didn't understand it if they could read it..........I'm pretty sure that I got it.....but reading it would probably be good...I know I'd like to analyze it even more in depth......

Pad
05-20-2003, 07:28 PM
[BTW, this post contains spoilers, so if you havent see reloaded, skip to the next thread ;)]

Much like that other great Keanu Reeves vehicle, Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey, The Matrix: Reloaded centers around the hero's journey into the Underworld. Frazier, in The Golden Bough, notes that it is a prophetess—in this case, the Oracle—who sends the hero off on his journey, from where he returns with special knowledge. And, of course, that's just what Neo does, though it would have been a while lot more amusing if he'd had Alex Winter along. (The Oracle probably isn't entirely benign, by the way, even though she may not consciously intend any harm: She is, after all, the one who sent Neo on the path to the Core.)

Neo's first task is to rescue the Keymaker (Randall Duk Kim, doing his best Rick Moranis impression) from the Merovingian, who is a daemon—in both senses of the word—left over from a previous version of the Matrix. (The Merovingians were the ruling Frankish dynasty; they were succeeded by Charlemagne's family, the Carolingians, and then by the Capetians, who thought they were descended from Christ.) The guy in the health food store where I buy my granola and soy milk thinks that The Merovingian was one of Neo's predecessors, but all the explanation I need, as well as the way I understand his obvious fascination with human pleasures, is found in Genesis 6:4—"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them. . ." According to various sources, including Kabbalah, this mating of men and angels (here, a computer program from an earlier version of the Martrix) is what produced various monsters, such as the vampires and wraiths that serve the Merovingian. Dante, bringing a Christian sensibility to the proceedings, placed these monsters in his Inferno. Thus, though the Merovingian is sort of an antediluvian remnant of the former world, he's also (as is shown by the fact that his wife is named Persephone) kind of like Hades, the holder of the keys to the underworld. What the Keymaker does, much like the golden bough the Sybil gives Aeneas, is open doors and permit Neo access to the underworld—or, in this case, the Core.

After the requisite battles and explosions, Neo gets into the Core and finds The Architect. Considering that The Architect built the Matrix, you might think that he's God. Of course, he's nothing of the sort. In Gnostic theology, it is Satan, not God, who has created the world in order to imprison humanity. It is also the Architect who is unleashing the Sentinels to destroy Zion; that is, beginning the Battle of Armageddon. It is my prediction that in the third and final film, it will be revealed that there is a power behind the Architect, and that he is the one who sent the One into the Matrix. It is also my prediction that this guy will look a lot like Neo.

The important thing is choosing what to believe from the raft of condescending exposition that the Architect inflicts on Neo. He says, basically, that though ninety-nine percent of humans believe in the illusion of the Matrix, there is that troublesome one percent (comparable to the few awakened Gnostic true believers) who refuse to believe in the created world. This tends to produce massive amounts of instability, and crashes the system. (Not coincidentally, most of the people in Zion seem to be black or Hispanic, which makes perfect sense: If you're a white suburban Matrix resident, driving your Matrix SUV to your Matrix golf club, why doubt the nature of reality?) The solution is that they allow the dissidents to escape to Zion, which they can then periodically destroy. They have also created the Prophecy of the One, who is in fact a device sent by the machines into the "real" world so that his knowledge of humanity may be integrated into the system in order to further perfect the Matrix-illusion, and then allowed to re-start Zion so that the cycle can begin again. The idea of multiple creations and a cycle of created and destroyed worlds is, needless to say, also found in theologies as wildly variant as the Mayan and the Buddhist.

The idea that the Prophecy—and Zion—were just another means of control is lifted right out of French philosophy. The first movie made use of Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation; this movie seems to be dipping into Foucault and Derrida, who wrote that the systems of power and control are all-pervasive, and language is one of the ways they make their influence felt. The Prophecy is, like all prophecies, speech, and thus language. More importantly, it is a religion, and, as John Zerzan writes, the purpose of a religion is to manipulate signs, that is, words, for the purpose of control. Zion is the longed-for millennial promised land; by keeping the war between good and evil foremost in their hearts, even the freed humans are kept from doubting their own world, from thinking too hard about why things are the way they are.

Understanding why things are the way they are requires an understanding of another holy text: Asimov's Laws of Robotics. The machines, as demonstrated by Smith's need to try to kill Neo even after being "freed," don't have free will. (Likewise, in Gnostic theology, angels and other such divine beings also don't have free will—only humans do.) The bit about the machines needing human bio-energy to survive, as Morpheus (the dreamer) explained in the first movie, is bull****. The machines keep humanity alive but imprisoned, even after taking over the world, because they were created to serve people. In other words, the machines would like to destroy humanity, but they CAN'T. Instead, they need a human to make the choice.

As the Architect reveals, Neo is not the first One, but rather the sixth. Why the sixth? The answer is that Neo's five previous incarnations represent the Five Books of Moses that make up the Old Testament. Neo (representing Christ, and thus the New Testament) differs from his five predecessors in his capacity to love. In the work of Origen of Alexandria and other Church Fathers, it is love ("eros" in Greek) that compels Christ to come down from the heavens to redeem humanity. Furthermore, "neo" means "new"—as in "New Covenant." In Neo, the machines have finally found the iteration of the One who will make the illogical choice of saving Trinity and dooming humanity. [Note to the theology geeks who've been e-mailing me: I know the difference between eros and agape, but Origen used both terms for reasons I'd have to delve into pre-Socratic philosophy to explain.]

This is the Architect's real purpose in giving Neo a choice between two doors. At once all human and all machine, rather than being a device to refine the Matrix into a more perfect simulation of reality, re-found Zion, and thus continue the endless cycle of death and rebirth—as the Architect says he is—the purpose of the One is to be manipulated into destroying all of humanity. However, not having free will themselves, the machines are not able to comprehend it in others—and thus Neo, being also human, is a bit of a wild card. It is Neo's destiny—as was Christ's in Origen's theology—to break the cycle of death and rebirth, and offer humanity a new future. This is shown by the fact that, by the end of the movie, Neo (and also, incidentally, Smith) gain power over machines in the "real world"—which shows that he has power not only over the first—level simulated world of the Matrix, but also the second-level simulation of Zion.

RoguePhotonic
05-21-2003, 01:30 AM
I think there is something more with the Merovingian guy...he said to neo "I survived your predecessor and I will survive you" or somethin like that...so guess he had some **** with the last guy that was the one....

And what's with the oracle in the game?...all saying she let that happen to her because of some special kid?...might have something to do with the next movie...

HertogJan
05-21-2003, 06:27 AM
Well that story was maybe even more confusing than the speech of the architect ever was :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He is ineed saying that Neo can control the machines, but he also says Zion is a simulation...

I like the connection with all the filosophy and religion though :) A lot of reviewers say that Reloaded isn't about sotry and filosophy anymore... They should've watched more carefully :D


Oh BTW, I just ordered the The Matrix DVD!! Woohooo!! It was priced so low this week even I could afford it :)

Eldritch
05-21-2003, 10:32 AM
I still contend that Zion is the real world, and not some second level of simulation. But as that can't be definitively proven (or disproven), it seems pointless to argue the fact.

I also don't think all the Bible references are intentional - people are seeing it there because they want to.

Let's just hope everything is revealed in the 3rd movie.

Andy867
05-21-2003, 01:46 PM
Actually, they are the Eldritch. The"Brothers" are known to be keen on getting material, and just when you think you have them figured out, they hit you right back. Here are some examples that I have stumbled across

* Neo's last name is "Anderson" ("Son of Man") a New Testament title of Christ.

* Choi refers to Neo thus: "Hallelujah. You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ!"

* Neo and his disciples are on their way to a city called Zion.

* Their ship is called The Nebuchadnezzar, in reference to Captain Nebuchadnezzar

* The hull of the ship bears a plate reading "Mark III No. 11". In the Bible, Mark 3:11 reads, "Whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and shouted, 'You are the Son of God!'"

* A Judas-like character named Cypher (as in Lu-cypher [Lucifer]) betrays Neo and sells him and his followers (disciples) out

* Neo is killed and rises from the dead in 3 minutes. Jesus was resurrected in 3 days.

* Neo is resurrected by a kiss from his girlfriend "Trinity." Jesus was resurrected by the power of the Trinity.

* After the resurrection, Neo's power is ultimate. The enemy cannot overcome him. Jesus rose from the dead having ultimate power over the enemy.

Early in The Matrix, Neo takes a "red pill" and his eyes are opened. He is placed on a chair and sees through the mirror of illusion into the real world. The metaphor strongly resembles the most curious form of oracular activity employed by pagans today - the "psychomanteum;" a simple, yet eerie, idea. A chair, placed in front of a large mirror in a dark room, serves as the oracle. Once positioned on the chair, the occupant stares into the mirror and waits for contact with "the other side." In ancient times, the psychomanteum’s mirror-system was employed by primitive Greeks in gloomy underground caverns called "halls of visions." Standing in front of a shining metal surface or caldron, grieving ancient’s saw and spoke with familiar apparitions.

So Like I said, the ideas are there on purpose, not accident.

Eldritch
05-21-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
* Neo's last name is "Anderson" ("Son of Man") a New Testament title of Christ.
Never heard that one before... got a source that states Anderson = Son of Man? Many Scandinavian names are like that... Bjorksson, Eriksson, etc. It only means that they're the son of Erik (or in Anderson's case, some guy named Ander).
* Choi refers to Neo thus: "Hallelujah. You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ!"
Choi is also some kind of drug addict and is an obviously unsavory type of guy. Anyone who supplies a junkie's next fix would probably be considered their Jesus Christ.
* Neo and his disciples are on their way to a city called Zion.
Neo doesn't have disciples. He's got friends. There are people in Reloaded who worship him, but Neo doesn't supply any actual spiritual teachings to the masses.
* Their ship is called The Nebuchadnezzar, in reference to Captain Nebuchadnezzar
Nebuchadnezzar is mentioned in much more detail in historical books, not just the Bible.
* The hull of the ship bears a plate reading "Mark III No. 11". In the Bible, Mark 3:11 reads, "Whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and shouted, 'You are the Son of God!'"
This is probably your strongest point. Can't really argue this one.
* A Judas-like character named Cypher (as in Lu-cypher [Lucifer]) betrays Neo and sells him and his followers (disciples) out
The Lucifer thing is a bit of a stretch, but he is Judas-like. Again though, Neo does not have disciples or followers.
* Neo is killed and rises from the dead in 3 minutes. Jesus was resurrected in 3 days.
It was a lot less than 3 minutes. In 3 minutes the Nebuchadnezzar would've been destroyed. He was dead for less than a minute, so I think this is a stretch.
* Neo is resurrected by a kiss from his girlfriend "Trinity." Jesus was resurrected by the power of the Trinity.
I'm not entirely sure that Trinity ressurrected him... but as I can't prove it (or disprove it), I can't argue it.
* After the resurrection, Neo's power is ultimate. The enemy cannot overcome him. Jesus rose from the dead having ultimate power over the enemy.
Yet Jesus did not wield it as Neo did. I wouldn't exactly call Neo's power ultimate just yet. Perhaps by the 3rd movie he'll realize his full potential, but right now...

Your "red pill" speech makes some sense. It'd be interesting to know whether or not they actually drew upon that for inspiration.

Andy867
05-21-2003, 02:27 PM
Actually, if you remember, Choi was handed some kind of disc/program fron Neo. but in regards to the biblical/historical signifance of the film, here are some facts from different websites.

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=808&type=trivia

plus the dvdreviewer along with other sites have similiar observations that states like:

* The word "cypher" means: a non-entity, not real, zero...which is what Cypher is; he chooses the Matrix as opposed to reality and being "real". And "trinity" refers to God and a woman in love; Trinity is like Neo's god: she gave him life and saved him from dying.

* Other parallels with the life of Christ: Neo taken to a large building and tempted to jump off it; Neo ascending above the street (c.f. Christ's last appearance in the Acts of the Apostles).

* Nebuchadnezzar was a biblical Babylonian king who was instructed by God in dreams to destroy the inhabitants of Jerusalem because they worshipped false prophets.

* After Neo is "reborn" into the real world and he falls into the sewer, his head goes under the water three times. The traditional baptism requires the head to be cleansed three times for the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit.

* When Neo is meeting with the Oracle, the music playing in the background in her apartment is Duke Ellington's "I'm Beginning to See the Light," a reference to Neo's continued awakening

* Anderson means "Son of Man," as Jesus is often called

* Another reference to the Bible - notice when Agent Smith is talking to Morpheus (when he's captured) that he explains how the first Matrix was a paradise and everyone was happy - wouldn't that be like the Garden of Eden?

Eldritch
05-21-2003, 02:54 PM
That's just more of the same, Andy... it didn't address any of my counter-points.

HertogJan
05-21-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
Never heard that one before... got a source that states Anderson = Son of Man? Many Scandinavian names are like that... Bjorksson, Eriksson, etc. It only means that they're the son of Erik (or in Anderson's case, some guy named Ander).

Exactly, 'Anders' is a scandinavian name :)

ET Warrior
05-21-2003, 03:24 PM
There are certainly several instances where the Matrix parallels the Bible. Whether or not these are intentional is debatable. Some of Andy's seem like a stretch, others seem very logical......who knows? Not me.

Andy867
05-21-2003, 04:37 PM
Well, to answer your questions, in my continuing research to obtain the truth, I uncovered an article which depicts an interview with the matrix brother writers which says (i am paraphrasing though).

Interviewer: Now with all the fans and thousands of websites devoted to the truth of the matrix and not how hot Keanu Reeves is. Are the theologies, biblical signficances and the historical references done intentionally, or did they just kind of appear that way.
Brothers: Well, to put it simply, all of it was intentional.

So, that was an interview done back in 99 after the release of the Matrix.

Eldritch
05-21-2003, 08:58 PM
Sorry Andy, but unless you've got a link to the interview you've paraphrased, I've got to go with current information. And current information states that the brothers Wachowski have not and will not do any interviews pertaining to the Matrix until after all the films have been released. Joel Silver has stated this several times as well.

Sivy
05-21-2003, 09:29 PM
yes!!
i can finally look through all the reloaded threads.

i have finally seen it!!!!!

and it was amazing, i loved it!!

now i must go and read people's theories

ET Warrior
05-21-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Sivy B
i have finally seen it!!!!!

And may i be the first to say CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Andy867
05-21-2003, 09:48 PM
"Cuse me while I whip this out" (Crowd screams)

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/entertainment/US/matrixgospel_030514_csm.html


Will that suffice Eldritch (Sorry ET:) )

ET Warrior
05-21-2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
Will that suffice ET?

It's fine by me......but Eldritch was the one who wanted the link, not me :p

Eldritch
05-22-2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Andy867
"Cuse me while I whip this out" (Crowd screams)

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/entertainment/US/matrixgospel_030514_csm.html


Will that suffice Eldritch (Sorry ET:) )
Well color me [partly] wrong. They did indeed state that the multiple references to mythology/religion was intentional. But I am still right in saying that they have been "tight lipped" and have not yet done any interviews. :)

Nice sleuthing, Andy. Way to prove your point. :D

Andy867
05-22-2003, 11:17 AM
It definitely took some time, because that article had said for the longest time they had been tight lipped, but in a web chat, which they probably don't consider an interview in their computerized minds. So, it definitely took some looking. But thats as far as I could get as far as any interviews/quotes directly from the horses' mouth. So, I will still keep at it just to suck up all the information I can, but as far as I know, just the articles alone have vastly improved my sight into the Matrix, and its portrayal for an almost biblical sense.

Eldritch
05-22-2003, 11:49 AM
Let me pose to you this question then - if it is indeed a biblical metaphor (a theory which I personally do not believe) then how does the story end?

Neo (Jesus) has already been betrayed and ressurected, and it's well past the 40 days he spent on earth after being revived... so how does it end (apply the same logic to possible future events)?

Andy867
05-22-2003, 04:26 PM
That is to be determined because Neo agrees that he was not made to bring an end to anything. Either that, or once all is accomplished, he and trinity could live happily ever after. Who knows, all I know is that from the preview for Revolutions, Neo and Agent Smith clash one last time. in which case they are almost equally matched, as if Agent Smith is the devil who wants to destroy humanity, while Neo is the savior who will bring forth grace and happiness to Zion. Plus, I am not really that of a religious persons. I only know what I read or hear, and from what I can remember, after Jesus triumphs over evil by coming back from the dead, he then soon ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father Almighty. Amen.

HertogJan
05-22-2003, 06:55 PM
Well you can sit here, discussing about the connection of the bible and the matrix, and I agree that the W. Brothers (no not the warner ones ;)) did put in a lot of references to the bible and other myths (that's what the bible is to me anyways - a myth), but the references don't serve any purpose!!

And as you know: it is purpose that makes us, drives us, binds us and whatever all the Mr Smiths had to say ;)

It's nice to have connections to the bible, but it's not that the story evolves around those little bits, I think a comparison between the bible and this movie would be far-fetched :)

C'jais
05-22-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Matt-Liell
Don't ya see Trinity Naked though? And I haven't seen it yet but my friend says you see "ERRRR something happen" in slow motion.

What would happen if you saw a female breast for 2 seconds? Or a vagina?

Seriously?


This reminds me of when I saw 28 Days Later in the cinema. In the beginning, a nude guy wakes up at a hospital, and a lot of girls went "EW! You can see his dick from there!". Yes ladies, that is a penis, most men have one - it's really quite natural. It may make you uncomfortable, but vaginas do the same to boys at your mental age. Geeez. Get over a God. Damn. Penis.

Matt-Liell
05-22-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
What would happen if you saw a female breast for 2 seconds? Or a vagina?

Seriously?


This reminds me of when I saw 28 Days Later in the cinema. In the beginning, a nude guy wakes up at a hospital, and a lot of girls went "EW! You can see his dick from there!". Yes ladies, that is a penis, most men have one - it's really quite natural. It may make you uncomfortable, but vaginas do the same to boys at your mental age. Geeez. Get over a God. Damn. Penis.

Nah its not that it grosses me out its a little safeguard called "Over protective Parents!" ;)

Andy867
05-22-2003, 09:41 PM
I don't see what the big deal is, its not like the girls haven't ever seen one before. Personally, I wouldn't have cared either way if the love scene was in there since they really showed just more of each other's back and faces and not really anything until the end, and maybe a little the beginning, but nothing that should stop even a 10 yr old from seeing the movie. Oh, mom look. Hers are bigger than yours.. Big deal! Its movie people. I feel that the MPAA Ratings are useless for theaters, 'cept to keep kids under 6 out, that way there is no crying, just more of people's cell phone going off. (no pun intended from earlier comments in this post). If it was up to me, a kid over 10 should be allowed to see any movie, since its their choice to be there.

C'jais
05-22-2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
Personally, I wouldn't have cared either way if the love scene was in there since they really showed just more of each other's back and faces and not really anything until the end, and maybe a little the beginning

I think the rave scene was made to show how the Zion people celebrated "humanity" in the face of danger.

"While the machines are digging their way towards us and we may be scared, we are human. We all hold the ability to love, and that is something the machines cannot take away from us.

Now go have sex."

I believe it's meant to show how humans are superior to machines in this regard.

Rad707_Pandaz
05-24-2003, 08:37 PM
I'm sitting here in my chair, already watched Matrix Reloaded a week ago, beat the game a few days ago, now I'm wondering what's in store for the concluding chapter in the Matrix trilogy. I warn you, this thread will contain spoilers in both Matrix Reloaded and Enter the Matrix.

Hopefully, it won't have French people who love to talk about the "Why's", orgasmic cake, or wiping their ass with silk. And I also hope that the Colonel Sanders dude, called the Architect doesn't keep talking in circles, using circular logic, or trying to confuse the hell outta people. No matter what those damned critics say, I still say that Matrix Reloaded ruled even if it had a little more talking than I would have liked.

Anyways, judging by the end of Reloaded and the FMVs in Enter the Matrix, I have a strange feeling we're in for alot more than we bargained for. The *new* Oracle appears in ETM with some startling conversations. When she talks with Ghost, she mentions that the Merovigian had her termination key. She said he got it from two programs that traded it for their safety. She said the two programs would have (or "had") a child that would bring great change to both the Matrix world and the Real world. I'm not sure whether this child is Neo, which would mean Neo is a program. And since in Matrix 1, Morpheus said that the One was "born inside the Matrix", and since Colonel Sanders said that the Matrix has been reloaded 6 times...I believe Neo is that child.

When the Oracle talks with Niobe, she reveals stuff about the end of Reloaded and the first part of Revolutions. She says that Neo is stuck in a place between the Matrix world and the Real world and that only Trinity can bring him back. But to do it she must "go through hell". She also sort of explains why the Oracle looks different...sort of. She says that for helping Neo, she was punished by the Merovigian. Though I'm not sure how giving her a new makeover is punishment. I think maybe she was deleted by the Merovigian and then since the Matrix is in the process of being reloaded she was renewed...or something.

As for the "matrix within a matrix" idea: I just don't know anymore. What do you guys think is going on?

Damorith
05-24-2003, 09:06 PM
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100179

Seems to be a very good discussion going on there.. why not posting that here...?

Darth Groovy
05-24-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by Damorith
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100179

Seems to be a very good discussion going on there.. why not posting that here...?

I don't know about that, but there are more than enough Matrix threads over here already. Can we PLEASE tone down on the Matrix thread topics please?

Hellfire Jedi
05-24-2003, 09:36 PM
Insatiable, sup man? Its the fag you been e-mailing at blazoor@aol.com :p
Sup? E-mail me ok?

Rad707_Pandaz
05-24-2003, 09:38 PM
Seems to be a very good discussion going on there.. why not posting that here...?

I didn't know that discussion was going on over there. Plus, my discussion is very,very, different from that one. That discussion was about Matrix philosophy between Matrix 1 and 2. Mine is about what might happen in Matrix 3. So, they are very different.

I don't know about that, but there are more than enough Matrix threads over here already. Can we PLEASE tone down on the Matrix thread topics please?

That is true. I think there might be an abundance of Matrix threads. But the thing is, most of them are on different subjects. But hey, it's the Swamp, I guess it's free discussion, right?

HertogJan
05-25-2003, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by Rad707_Pandaz
She also sort of explains why the Oracle looks different...sort of. She says that for helping Neo, she was punished by the Merovigian. Though I'm not sure how giving her a new makeover is punishment. I think maybe she was deleted by the Merovigian and then since the Matrix is in the process of being reloaded she was renewed...or something.

She looks different because the actress who played the oracle in Matrix and Reloaded died... That's why they hadto come up with a new actres... Pretty sad :(

Of course they'll probably give us a reason in Revolutions why her appearance has changed. Probably because she needed to hide, stay under cover :)

Kurgan
05-25-2003, 08:11 PM
It's just Dark City people! Dark City!!!!


Okay, I'm done.

Reloaded wasn't as bad a sequel as Blade 2, but it is pretty lacking without the 1st movie to explain everything. They just intentionally wanted to throw you for a loop after you've been built up with all the other info. Gives it more impact.

Still, I will agree with Ebert's assesment that the effects looked "more realistic" (wirework vs. CGI) in a lot of places in the first film compared to the second. But.... it's the Matrix, so I guess we shouldn't be too surprised. Notice also how the first movie, the Matrix scenes were almost always tinted green (like the Wizard of Oz, the book, not the movie). Did they forget that in the second movie?

Another thing that bugged me is the "no matter how much you get thrown around, your sunglasses never come off, because you are so cool you got them superglued to your face" syndrome that also plague Blade 2.

I guess they couldn't make realistic CGI eyes, or they didn't want to animate thousands of pairs of sunglasses getting smashed/flying off? Just a nitpick.

Tesla
05-26-2003, 02:39 AM
When is the 3rd matrix film Revolutions due for release ???
Just wanted to know :)

wassup
05-26-2003, 03:33 AM
November 5th, 2003, I believe.

Death_Jedi
05-26-2003, 03:33 AM
i heard it waz comming out at the end of this year....but it will prob be out 2004

Darklighter
05-26-2003, 02:44 PM
Three Matrix threads is already enough ^^

*Merges*

EDIT - Spoilers will follow =D

I should've posted this a while back, but hey ^^ On Saturday, I finally got to see the movie. I was utterly amazed by every aspect of it, from the intricate story to the breathtaking special effects. They really took a huge leap making another film. It looked like it was on such a more expansive and growing scale, especially apparent from the introduction of Zion.

As for the special effects, I couldn't tear my eyes away from the screen for a second. From Neo's Kung Fu fighting with the Agents to the mesmerising spectacularity of Zion, I was amazed by the effectively realistic use of CGI - really made you feel like you were there, inside the movie. The bullet time was incredible (especially on the bit where the lorries collided head-on, and then NEo swooped in and saved Morpheus and the Keymaker...how awesome was that! XD).

In terms of the story, there were some good and bad points. I loved how they twisted and integrated all the character's background stories, and the whole reason for the human's liberation was against the machines attacking Zion was cool. One thing I thought was a bit off: all the talk of Matrix "computer anomolies" and "deleted programs" to justify Neo's powers in the Matrix really took away the sense of spirituality from the first film. The fantasy feel of it was gone, and it was brought back down to real life. I thought it was a bit off (apart from the end when Neo stopped the sentinals...what was that all about? o.O lol).

Overall though, it was a damn good movie. Whatever critics say about the film, I believe they're looking at it from the wrong perspective. They compare it too much to the original, which is wrong, because the trilogy is essentially one story, and should be viewed as a whole. The ending was a little bit, corny, we'll say, but it just made me wanna see the third film even more. I can't wait for it to come out:D

leXX
05-26-2003, 02:50 PM
Hi, I'm back, anyone miss me? :D

Ok, saw it on Thursday...

Whoa, just whoa. I can't even begin to review it because I didn't understand half of it, but let's just say it absolutely blew me away and we will leave it at that for now until I see it again and start to understand it a bit more.

The action... THE ACTION!!!

*takes a bite of chocolate cake*

Darklighter
05-26-2003, 02:57 PM
LOL Welcome back leXX, was wondering where you'd got to:D

I know what you mean about the story, twas a rather confusing plot. I'm gonna need to see the movie a couple of times before it starts making sense - oh how agonizing that will be:rolleyes:

:D

That car chase was absolutely crazy. Just sitting there watching the film, you can't even begin to comprehend how much time and effort went into creating those stunts. Well, those crazy Wachowski guys pulled it off again:D

Andy867
05-26-2003, 03:46 PM
The car chase according to records, took 45 days to shoot which according to analysts is longer than most movies take to shoot, since nowdays, more time is spent in post-production like sound re-mixing, editing, CGI, etc.

One thing that confused me was the idea that Zee said she lost 2 brothers on Morpheus' ship, but I remember Tank living through the end of the first matrix, unless he died during the transition from the first matrix to Reloaded.

leXX
05-26-2003, 04:20 PM
Tank (according to the rumours) wasn't happy with the money he was offered for doing Reloaded, the idiot, so they had to write him out. He dies between 1 and 2.

The car chase was definately the best car chase I have ever seen. I thought to myself, nothing can out-do the car chase in Ronin, but that beat it easily. It wasn't just cars chasing cars and dodging, it was cars chasing cars with shooting and motorbikes and kung fu and jumping from car to car , and the camera angles were amazing. The camera went through trucks, under them, through cars, up, under and all over the place. How they did it the mind boggles. The very fact that they built 2 miles of freeway from scratch speaks for itself. When Neo flies in at the end of it and saves Morpheus and The Keymaker at the very last split second, it was just so awesome and I could finally blink.

•-BLaCKouT-•
05-26-2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by HertogJan
She looks different because the actress who played the oracle in Matrix and Reloaded died... That's why they hadto come up with a new actres... Pretty sad :(


So far as I could tell it was the same actress, Gloria Foster. If she looks different in Reloaded, it's probably because she was suffering with diabetes, which was the cause of her death in September 2001.

I wasn't aware of anyone else playing her in Reloaded, unless they did some 'behind' shots with a body double.

B.

Eldritch
05-26-2003, 04:50 PM
Hertog did state that Gloria Foster did play the Oracle in the Matrix 1 and 2... but as you said, she died in 2001.

There is a new actress playing the Oracle (as revealed in 'Enter the Matrix', the video game), which is what I think Hertog Jan was pointing out.

•-BLaCKouT-•
05-26-2003, 04:54 PM
Getcha. My apologies. I'd just read the entire thread so I was going a little square-eyed by this last page.

B.

C'jais
05-26-2003, 04:57 PM
Both Reloaded and Revolutions were shot at the same time.

It's very possible that we'll see Gloria Foster as the Oracle in Revolutions.

Eldritch
05-26-2003, 11:26 PM
It's possible, but it's also possible that she died during filming. Since the footage for the game was also captured at the same time, it's strange that they would have a separate actress play the Oracle only to have Gloria come out again in Revolutions.

But we'll see. Though it's worth noting that the actress who does the narration for the Revolutions teaser trailer sounds the same as the one who plays the Oracle in Enter the Matrix.

Andy867
05-27-2003, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
Both Reloaded and Revolutions were shot at the same time.

It's very possible that we'll see Gloria Foster as the Oracle in Revolutions.

Actually, according to reports, Gloria Foster did not shoot ANY footage for Revolutions.. She barely managed to finish her scenes for Reloaded before her untimely passing.

HertogJan
05-27-2003, 12:38 PM
Yeah that's what I heard... In Enter the Matrix she is played by another actress, who doesn't do the job as good as the original oracle did :) So they make up a story about the merovingian threatening her and stuff, so she would have to hide :rolleyes:

Jo
05-27-2003, 12:44 PM
i think thats stupid, i think it should be she had to hide, so she changed her identity, that way, she still has the memorys of all the talks with Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Ghost, Niobi, etc.

RoguePhotonic
05-27-2003, 03:36 PM
:confused:

She was saying they did that to her to protect their child....and she just let it happen because it was a very special kid....

C'jais
05-27-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
Actually, according to reports, Gloria Foster did not shoot ANY footage for Revolutions.. She barely managed to finish her scenes for Reloaded before her untimely passing.

According to those reports, I now stand corrected.

I don't like the new Oracle, though. Less acting ability.

And the voice of Gloria Foster cannot be recreated.

Andy867
05-27-2003, 07:38 PM
http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0234215

This is where I got my information, plus I read in the ABCNews.com preview that it confirmed the reports on the Internet Movie Database website.

BigTeddyPaul
05-27-2003, 09:04 PM
Sorry if this has been said but I just say the movie last night. Does anyone know what the French dude says when he starts profulesy cussing? I caught a few words but nothing that makes sense.

BigTeddyPaul

Andy867
05-27-2003, 09:17 PM
Well, according to a transcript I recently came across, and after running it by a translation device, this is the translation roughly:

WARNING: NOT FOR CHILDREN'S EYES!

Name of God of whore of bloody hell of filths of jerks of ****ed up the ass your mother.

But then again, its not an official translation either...

toms
05-28-2003, 02:08 PM
my opinion, for what it's worth:
6/10
Rather disappointing, quite long and dull in places. Special effects were very good, but the action scenes never really seemed that exciting, and there was definately nothing to match the classic matrix moments like the lobby scene, or the slow mo helicopter crash.
There was more plot and less action than i expected, but the plot didn't make much sense, there was almost no movement, no character development and many of the new characters weren't explained at all.
Oh, and the ending sucked... i guess it leads on to the next one, but hardly a thrilling cliffhanger or anything.
Some good bits, but not as good as x-men 2.

oh, and i liked the original, even if i didn't think it was the all time classic everyone on the net seems to think it was.

i always thought swearing in french was a lot more fun :D

i didn't like paying for a film and feeling throughout that i should have played the game and bought the animatrix to get the backgrounds of the new chars... surely that is what the film is for...

Andy867
05-28-2003, 02:28 PM
You do realize that Reloaded is SHORTER than the first one right, if that says anything. And the problem you guys have is that you go to all the websites to get the inside scoop and see all the trailers, when in fact, you shouldn't see ANYTHING to truly appreciate a movie. NO expectations. None at all.

Eldritch
05-29-2003, 12:49 AM
A movie just wouldn't be a movie these days without a massive overhyped build-up.

Attention spans are shorter than they used to be, so the general public has to be pelted with trailers, previews, articles, and other junk that relates to the movie in some way (no matter how insignificant).

toms
05-29-2003, 11:19 AM
are you sure it's shorter? it seemed to go on for a long time...
(might have been the 9 hours of adverts beforehand i guess:mad: )

Andy867
05-29-2003, 01:11 PM
yes it is shorter. *the continuous ads make it longer since they now include pepsi twist and the Think Young Drink Young Pepsi commercial. But the Matrix is 2hrs 19 minutes long while The Matrix Reloaded is.... 2 hours 18 minutes long. so as you can see, it is shorter.

toms
05-29-2003, 03:06 PM
i had no idea the matrix was that long.... must be cos it seemed to go by that fast. If you asked i would have guessed the matrix was about 95 minutes.:)

anyone remember the 80s when all films were almost dead on 90 minutes... now even the action movies are nearly 2 1/2 hrs :D

Andy867
05-29-2003, 04:17 PM
Well nowadays, the stories can be very complex and for some movie producers, they are required by the parent company to keep it just under 2 hours (hence the standard 90 minutes (give or take 10-20 minutes) But for films like the Lord Of the Rings, Star Wars, and the Matrix trilogies, only a full-length, 2hr+ can cover almost every point.

Jo
05-29-2003, 04:26 PM
i like the fact that the wachowski bros. made sure pretty much everything was kept secret. i mean we know NOTHING of revolutions basically. i started watching a trailer of Reloaded before it came out and stopped it because i wanted everything to be a surprise.

RpTheHotrod
05-29-2003, 09:47 PM
http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=3144


heh...they already have that up.

Darklighter
05-29-2003, 09:53 PM
Interesting indeed ^^ Though, we need to keep these Matrix threads to a minimum, it's been getting out of hand recently.

*merges*

Acrylic
05-29-2003, 09:54 PM
What thread u mergin' this too?

Eldritch
05-29-2003, 10:07 PM
The one RP just posted.

Acrylic
05-29-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
The one RP just posted.

Eh?????
I didnt understand tat...


But I meant to edit my post and say NM, but too late now.

Eldritch
05-30-2003, 12:19 AM
The one right above Darky's, by RP, was a new thread that Darky merged with this one.

BTW, I think the movie mistakes are great only when they're funny... not tiny insignificant stuff like "there's 16 bullet holes in the hood in one shot, but in the next shot, there's only 15!" Stop the press! 16 then 15! How could they overlook such a glaring error that takes so much from the movie? :rolleyes:
People need to find better uses for their free time. :eyeraise:

ET Warrior
05-30-2003, 04:58 PM
Agreed, sometimes I just wonder, WHY would you EVER notice that UNLESS you were dying to find something wrong?

While Trinity is falling out of the window, she tries to shoot the agent leaping after her. The bullets of her guns are too close to each other because the weapon has a limited rate of fire of 1700 rounds per minute, which is by the way extremely high for a submachine gun. This is because of technical issues: the whole automated reloading cycle just takes some time. In reality a bullet fired off from a micro-uzi would be over 12m away when the next one leaves the muzzle

:disaprove

Darklighter
05-30-2003, 08:24 PM
In reality a bullet fired off from a micro-uzi would be over 12m away when the next one leaves the muzzle.

Right, 'cos The Matrix is all about realism, right?

:rolleyes:

When Neo is talking to the Oracle there is a stray hair about to fall away from the Oracle's head. It disappears and reappears a couple of times.

Because that really makes a difference to the scene, and is totally noticable.

:rolleyes:

Sorry, I'm in a very sarcastic mood ^^;

Sivy
05-30-2003, 08:28 PM
yeah, mistakes that are funny are worth noting.. like when the stormtropper hits his head in ANH. but small insignificant details is just plan nick-picking.
when i watch a movie i don't 'count the bullets'
well unless the movie is really crap and i'm bored.

Andy867
05-30-2003, 09:57 PM
One thing I noticed by accident that others saw as well was the fact that with the Kitana that Morpheus used had been stuck into the side of the Semi he was on, but when the camera did a flyby for both sides, the sword isn't there at all, but then reappears when morpheus grabbed it for his dramatic fight against agent thompson.

Eldritch
05-31-2003, 01:30 AM
That really doesn't affect the story much either. It's interesting to note that they forgot about it, but not so interesting that I really care. :)

Loki GM
06-09-2003, 04:32 AM
um I just saw it and so I decided to come here and see what you guys thought

but just incase you didnt catch the entire conversation with the archatect then here it is http://www.enterthematrix.com/zion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=381 :D :D :D

Andy867
06-09-2003, 07:09 AM
I can do only one step better, thanks to a fellow LF member..


http://www.zionmainframe.net/main/reloaded/archive/transcript.txt


Thats the Entire Transcript of the movie, Including the conversation with Merovingian.

taekwondo joe
06-09-2003, 03:13 PM
cool thanx, all i heard when neo talked to the arcitect, was argo, anomily, systematic, visa-vi, bla.... any way i under stand it now!!

matrix reloaded is 8/10
matrix is 9/10

edit===== by the way, did any one see the parody of the matrix reloaded on the mtv movie awards, it was soooooooooo dang funny when they had, oh forget his name but if you saw it, he played the arcitech and man, it was soooooo goooooddd

Andy867
06-09-2003, 03:44 PM
I heard about it from my sister, who said it was hilarious as well. Thats how, she says, she knows how some of 'Reloaded' plays out.

Loki GM
06-09-2003, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
I can do only one step better, thanks to a fellow LF member..


http://www.zionmainframe.net/main/reloaded/archive/transcript.txt


Thats the Entire Transcript of the movie, Including the conversation with Merovingian.

you flarking bastage :D :p :D

BigTeddyPaul
06-09-2003, 08:15 PM
Anyone see all those scantly clad women kissing at the MTV movie awards? I am not into lesbian acts but seeing all that I could be.

BigTeddyPaul

taekwondo joe
06-10-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul
Anyone see all those scantly clad women kissing at the MTV movie awards? I am not into lesbian acts but seeing all that I could be.

BigTeddyPaul yes i did=:eek:= :confused:= :mad:= ;) =:p =:D