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The Count
05-29-2003, 08:21 AM
I've noticed alot of new alien "monsters" in JA, way more than in JO, what I was wondering was if maybe the Kell Dragon would make an appearance in JA.

Wacky_Baccy
05-29-2003, 08:28 AM
I hope so :D

Somehow I doubt we'll see any, though... Just a feeling.

Thinking about it, that's one of the major differences between JK/MotS and Jedi Outcast - there were far fewer creatures to interact with [read: 'slaughter mercilessly' :D], so it began to feel a tad monotonous... The return of creatures like the Mailocks, Water Cycs, Dianogas, Vornskr, and Kell Dragons from the previous games would be very welcome, IMO - variety is important, and JO didn't quite have enough of it, I think.

*goes to compare the JK/MotS and JK2 game manuals to see what the differences in creatures/enemies are*

[edit: fixed the names after reading the manuals :p]

StormHammer
05-29-2003, 11:16 AM
It's good to see a return of the 'monsters'. In my view they are as much an integral part of Star Wars as any of the alien races or other characters. In the movies, tangling with Dianogas, Wampas, Rancors, Sarlaccs, giant Space worms, Mynocks and whatever else added extra spice and flavour to the adventure. And that was just the OT...

The small ankle-gnawing creatures in JO were okay, but a little annoying, so it's good to see a return to larger and more menacing opponents recognisable from the movies. I hope there are a couple of new creatures as well (if we get to visit a planet not visited before).

Of course, it would really rock if you came across some neutral fauna as well. When I think back to Unreal, the Nali Rabbits, Nali Cows, birds, fish and buzzing insects really helped to bring the environments to life (including all of their sounds). I'd love to see Raven recreate something like the Dagobah swamp, teeming with life...

I doubt it will happen...but I can hope...

txa1265
05-29-2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
The small ankle-gnawing creatures in JO were okay, but a little annoying, so it's good to see a return to larger and more menacing opponents recognisable from the movies. I hope there are a couple of new creatures as well (if we get to visit a planet not visited before).

I would have liked them better if I could have taken them out the way Anakin did those 'megapedes' crawling on Padme ...

For me, the more variety in aliens, the better - even if they are just variations on the same skeletal system, like in JKII. But since they said they've gone from ~3 to >30 skeletans ... hope springs eternal.

Mike

Toa Tahu
05-29-2003, 01:05 PM
The absence of the Kell Dragons in JO is sorely missed by me.

txa1265
05-29-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Toa Tahu
The absence of the Kell Dragons in JO is sorely missed by me.

True ... that is what I like about seeing the Rancor, Sarlaac and Wampa. I don't mind being killed by a huge beast as much as being nibbled to death by a bunch of ankle crabs in a mine. I want to go like the guy hanging upside down in the Wampa's cave ;)

The Kell Dragons were fun in DF and JK/MotS. The more cool monsters, the better - as StormHammer said. I'm all for making some up as well for new planets, but that is dicey ... if it looks derivative of something else (like the resenblance of the crabs to the ones in Elite Force), they'll likely get pounded rather than lauded.

Mike

wardz
05-29-2003, 05:49 PM
Ditto above...

What I noticed in MOTS was that all the alien life on planets were hostile to you, (even those plants that fired at you!)

I think it would be good to see a mix of hostile and passive aliens. This would add to the surprise element of the game as you would never know if they were friend or foes. Perhaps some of them could remain quite docile until you went too close to them or fired off a few round near them....


-W

TheBlueFlamingo
05-29-2003, 06:31 PM
I think it would be good to see a mix of hostile and passive aliens. This would add to the surprise element of the game as you would never know if they were friend or foes.

I remember hearing that the way you acted around civilians affected your force affiliation. In JK. But I saw no evidence of that at all, except when you attacked one they ran away, but thats nothing. Correct me if im worng, I'm sure someone will, but i dont remember any civilians in JO, everything was an enemy. It would be nice to actually see this implimented.

Perhaps some of them could remain quite docile until you went too close to them or fired off a few round near them....

In most every FPS its seems like the baddies are just waiting there for you with their guns ready, like in the cantinas, they are just standing there at the bar and when they see you they attack, it would be cool to have it so that they wouldnt bother you unless you bothered them in a negative way.

txa1265
05-29-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by wardz
What I noticed in MOTS was that all the alien life on planets were hostile to you, (even those plants that fired at you!)


There was one set of neutrals ... I can't remember who, but they were fine with whatever you wanted to do until you started killing them - then they turned on you. (I'm sure someone will remember and help me out ... old age and memory don't mix ;)

Personally I'd like to see some mix of allies, enemies and neutrals. And innocents, of course.

Mike

txa1265
05-29-2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by TheBlueFlamingo
I remember hearing that the way you acted around civilians affected your force affiliation. In JK. But I saw no evidence of that at all, except when you attacked one they ran away, but thats nothing. Correct me if im worng, I'm sure someone will, but i dont remember any civilians in JO, everything was an enemy. It would be nice to actually see this implimented.

Sure it did (actions affecting force affiliation in JK1) ... try killing every civilian in sight and see what happens to your force meter by the time you get choice :deathii:

In JKII ... non-enemy NPC's were rare. Ugnaughts, prisoners, um ...

In most every FPS its seems like the baddies are just waiting there for you with their guns ready, like in the cantinas, they are just standing there at the bar and when they see you they attack, it would be cool to have it so that they wouldnt bother you unless you bothered them in a negative way.

It is amazing that we've come to the point where we expect and want NPC's to have lives worth living - so many of the conversations in JKII are classic! While there are instances - guards, snipers, etc - of when they should be at ready with guns, especially when alerted to your prescence, there are many more when they should be 'flying casual', until you lop off the arm of the person their walking with. Postal 2 did this in a way - people were walking around, but would then pull guns out when needed. Not that I want JA to be like Postal 2 ... in any way ... at all. I don't.

Mike

Business_Eskimo
05-30-2003, 12:15 AM
As a mapper, I certainly would like to see some more civilians in JA than JKII... geez, how many were there? 1? 2?

taekwondo joe
05-30-2003, 07:40 PM
kell dragons would be cool, imagen this, spawing, if we get the spawning cheat again, a kell dragon, a snow monster, a rancore, and a few jedi................ if your comp could handel it, that would be sooooo phat

zERoCooL2479
05-30-2003, 07:49 PM
OMG the possibilities for mods. This is gonna be great!!!

The Count
05-30-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
OMG the possibilities for mods. This is gonna be great!!!

Having said that the current JO multiplayer MODS haven't been anything amazing.

Kurgan
05-30-2003, 09:15 PM
I'd love to see Kell Dragons return (preferably as a ridable beasty, something that was originally planned for Dark Forces II)!

They were much cooler than those stupid "mine monsters" (a total rip of the head crabs in Half Life).

That was about the only enemy in JO I really hated...

The animals "all being against you" in MotS made sense to be, because I felt they were supposed to be under the influence of the Sith. I agree about the "neutrals" as well. While the allies on JO could definately do more than in previous games, the levels felt under populated for some reason, as if they were just stocked with guys out to kill you.

In JK/MotS, at least if you fought the same enemy over and over, he had a different skin, so if felt like it wasn't just a bunch of clones. Or at least a different facial texture.

TheBlueFlamingo
05-31-2003, 06:58 AM
Having said that the current JO multiplayer MODS haven't been anything amazing.

Yeah, I've seen a few mods that are just stupid. A mod that makes fart noises!
How about we make a mod that puts facial hair on the girls!
Hey, lets make a mod where we make JO into JK! That is really stupid, why waste your time, the game was already made! Real creative. Go for something new, like counterstrike did. Made a whole different aspect to Half-Life.

GAH!!!

Silent_Thunder
06-03-2003, 04:40 AM
Its great news to me that there will be alot more monsters and NPCs in this game than JO... JKII was very lifeless in my opinion. One addition that was actually extreemly well done and entertaining were the Stormtrooper converstations... That was a great addition and I really hope continues on in Jedi Academy.

But Kell Dragons? I just hope... but I won't keep my fingers crossed.

Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, and to a lesser extent MotS all had very very Star Warsy creatures that just seemed to fit so well even though some of them were made up in the game (atleast VISUALLY made up)... The Kell Dragon, Dianoga, those flying insectiod creatures... and so on. But in Jedi Outcast everything had a much different feel and didn't really feel as much like Star Wars as the previous games, especially in non combative and creature characters... I really hated the mine crabs if you couldn't tell :).

But... from what I've seen of JO (Rancors, tuantuans, dewbacks, etc) have a much more diverse and star wars like feel to them.. which is on the right track I think (although I personally don't like rancors... even in the movies :)).

Darth Groovy
06-03-2003, 06:12 AM
I remember my first encounter with the Krayte Dragon in Dark Forces. Scared the bejesus out of me. I would not mind seeing one of those making a dramatic return.

StormHammer
06-03-2003, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by TheBlueFlamingo
Hey, lets make a mod where we make JO into JK! That is really stupid, why waste your time, the game was already made! Real creative. Go for something new, like counterstrike did. Made a whole different aspect to Half-Life.


Each to their own opinion, I guess. Personally I'm really looking forward to both the DF Mod and the JK Mod. The Mod crews are doing some excellent work, and both mods will look great on JO's engine. The DF mod is important for those who are really having problems trying to get the original game to work on their new systems - for example, no matter what I've tried, I can't get the sound to work any more. As far as the JK mod goes, they are not simply recreating what the original game contained, but enhancing it and updating it, so in some ways it will be a new experience in familiar surroundings.

Having said all of that, yes, it would be great to see some mods that take the gameplay and content in different directions. Hopefully with all of the new features and capabilities in JA, mod crews will be able to realise their visions, and come up with some great mods for everyone to enjoy.

Darth Groovy...the creature in Dark Forces was a Kell Dragon as far as I can recall. It looked the same as the Kell Dragon in JK anyway. A Krayte Dragon is something entirely different - as seen in SW Galaxies. They're really big monsters.

I agree, seeing them make a dramatic return would be appreciated. :)

Prime
06-03-2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by TheBlueFlamingo
Hey, lets make a mod where we make JO into JK! That is really stupid, why waste your time, the game was already made! Real creative. Go for something new, like counterstrike did. Made a whole different aspect to Half-Life.It is nice to see old levels and locations redone to take advantage of the the new features and graphics capabilities of the new games.

Who cares if it is not "creative"? At least it is fun!

The Count
06-03-2003, 05:23 PM
Krayte Dragons are in Bounty Hunter.