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TheMadDoofer
06-07-2003, 04:45 PM
It seems from the shots that they are using the exact same engine as Jedi Outcast. Even the stances look the same! I hope they touch it up a bit, even though the graphics are good to date.

Maybe some new particle or lighting effects, just to make it look spiffier.

The Count
06-07-2003, 05:08 PM
Thats what I thought, good to see other people are being as critical as I am.

TheMadDoofer
06-07-2003, 05:31 PM
After looking over the screens and trailer again, I still see that the graphics are the same, as it the engine. However, the huge open areas (reminescent of Moria) make it look better. With that said, I would still like different stances and many more moves to make it new.

The Count
06-07-2003, 05:35 PM
True, the stances look like very bland I mean in real life would Kyle stop and look the same ALL of the time with his lightsaber.

wassup
06-07-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by TheMadDoofer
It seems from the shots that they are using the exact same engine as Jedi Outcast.

They are using the an enhanced version of the Quake III Team Arena engine for Jedi Academy, which is what Jedi Outcast was based off of too. Thus, the graphics would be very similiar between the 2 games. However, Raven did say they are enhancing JA's graphics even more than JO, but we will have to wait until JA ships to find out just how much more improved the graphics are.

boinga1
06-08-2003, 01:42 AM
Maybe they'll improve the facial anims...a little. I mean, they stank in JO. That's my only real gripe, about JO graphics, really.

swediot=)
06-08-2003, 02:46 AM
yeh your right but in general i thaught the cinematics were crap gamplay didnt really bother me

Emon
06-08-2003, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus True, the stances look like very bland I mean in real life would Kyle stop and look the same ALL of the time with his lightsaber.

...welcome to every video game ever created!

Emon
06-08-2003, 04:10 PM
Oh, and for lighting, Raven is using the Q3Map2 compiler, which can create some really stunning light on the Q3 engine. A few screenshots may show it off, but the compiles to get it to look really nice take a really long time, so they ones they show are probably with most of the good stuff turned off.

StormHammer
06-08-2003, 04:36 PM
The Graphics look fine to me. They've already released some screenshots showing some comparisons between JO and JA, and both the model detail and textures have been improved. Of course the engine is going to look very similar apart from these cosmetic differences...because it's the same engine. Without ripping the whole thing to shreds and introducing something radical, like the Tenebrae project (which would automatically raise the minimum system specs and alienate a lot of players who played JO), I don't see how they could revamp the engine any more than they already have. Yes, they could improve some of the special effects, lighting and animation, but I hope it's not at the expense of gameplay.

It would have been nice if the game had been developed on a more up to date engine, but it isn't, and I didn't see much of a problem with JO's graphics in the first place. The model textures were especially highly detailed in JO (just walk up close to a Gran or Rodian). Terrain textures could have been better, including detail textures, and I hope this has been worked on a bit more.

As for the facial animation, I agree that JO did not look very good in that department, especially when compared with RTCW. Having played the EF2 demo just recently, the facial animation in that game is also very good considering the engine - Munro is very nicely detailed and the lip-synching is very good. So I do hope they can achieve at least this standard of facial animation in JA. And for cut scenes, they definitely need to look at motion capture - they used it in NOLF2, and it really made a dramatic difference and brought the characters to life.

Anyway, I'm more interested in the gameplay. The original Jedi Knight was graphically weaker than Quake 2 on release, yet I played JK more because of the great gameplay. JO is weaker than Unreal 2 in terms of graphics...but I play JO a lot more, because of the gameplay. I'm hoping the same will remain true for JA.

The Count
06-08-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Emon
...welcome to every video game ever created!


Considering this game in my opinion has a realistic look in it, I was merely stating thats what I saw as a criticism in the graphics, I am aware that it is the same that happens in other games (such as Jedi Knight but it didn't bother because it doesn't have the same degree of realism) No I don't have an in depth knowledge of the Q3 Engine and the animation behaviour of the game to know whether it is technoligically feasable for there to be random movements of Kyle holding his lightsaber every time Kyle stops neither did I suggest or demand that JA rectify this, I was only stating what I didn't like, nothing for you to comment on. The next time you wish to comment on my posts if it isn't going to be constructive and instead it will some pathetic comment attempting to belittle me like you just did, here is an idea just don't post I am also aware that you have a vast knowledge about Jedi Knight in general however that doesn't give you the right the behave like an arrogant twat.

TheMadDoofer
06-08-2003, 05:54 PM
Let's not start a flame war, OK?

*Ducks anyway*

StormHammer
06-08-2003, 05:57 PM
Darth Tyranus...just because you disagree with the way someone responds to your posts, does not give you the right to insult or flame them. I would use your own advice...just don't post.

The Count
06-08-2003, 05:58 PM
I didn't flame him, I just object to him trying to dismiss me as an idiot like he does to most people on this forum (ironically half the time he's right) I never called him an arrogant twat, however I said he behaves like one.

Emon
06-09-2003, 04:19 AM
Haha, nice try with the loophole pal, I'm afraid that doesn't work in the real world.

The Count
06-09-2003, 05:45 AM
I doubt a video games internet forum constitutes as the real world...

Emon
06-09-2003, 09:20 PM
What, you mean I'm not real, sitting at a computer, typing to you now? What's the difference between communicating on these forums and talking over the phone? Only voice and emotion, which we simulate with those lovely emoticons to the left.

Uber_Saber
06-10-2003, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
I doubt a video games internet forum constitutes as the real world...

Yes, because we're on the internet, let's lower our expectations of common courtesy.

HertogJan
06-10-2003, 05:50 AM
Why don't close this thread and give them a warning??? I think it's becoming a bit annoying here :mad:

The Count
06-10-2003, 11:19 AM
I think you miss the point, it's hardly direct commununication like when two people meet face to face and discuss things on the phone, someone on a forum someone merely voices their opinion and awaits a response. You may get the same satisfaction from this way of communication but alas I am unable to experience the same enlighenment you do discussing something on the internet.

(Ignore the technolical limitations of the 80s) I mean did Reagan and Gorbachev sign the START treaty using an Internet forum for Nuclear Missiles or the phone?

I can see a phone forum now:

Emon: Hi,

20 Minutes later.

Darth Tyranus: Hi,

However the phone is not as insignificant in real life as an internet forum as the phone is real time, and you can detect real emotion in the person's tone of voice you can't do that on a forum (unless you think emoticons are a plausible way of showing real feelings and if you do, sorry I think you are a bit simplistic, and caught up way too much in the internet), for example that thread when I thought boinga1 didn't know what a Zarbrak is, he was actually being sarcastic due to my spelling of the word incorrectly, I went ahead and explained what it was without regard to that.

Spider AL
06-10-2003, 11:36 AM
Darth Tyranus, you miss the point. Likening someone to female genitalia while hedging your bets, as you did, is unacceptable. I'm surprised you didn't get a temp ban. If I was a moderator, you would have done.

As for your own comments on the game, they're pretty irrelevant. Complaining that the game world doesn't match the real world for realism? That's kind of the point. Real-world, etcetera.

The Count
06-10-2003, 02:05 PM
I may have been a bit too offensive with my particular choice of words, in defending my view point (sorry 'bout that Emon). My comments on the game had no underlining prescriptivism in them and it wasn't a complaint as such more so an observation if I was complaining it would be "OMG RAVEN HAVE **** ANIMATORZ THEY MAKE KYLEZ STANCE SEEM SAEM CHANEG IT OR I WON'T BY JEDI ACCADEMY!! " I just stated that they were bland to look at, maybe its after playing the game for a year they have bored me or whatever, and If I felt my points about the game had any relevance, I would placed this in the gameplay suggestion thread:

"Dear Raven,

The Lightsaber stances appeared to me very bland in JO, and put a downer on my gaming experience, is there anyway if it it technologically feasable to implement a code that ensure that Kyle holds his lightsaber randomly everytime.

Thank you for assessing my suggestion

Ted Murphy"

Having said that, as a human being I believe I have a right to defend whatever I say from anyone, if I didn't defend it, then my points and beliefs would have little worth, and saying something without a reason makes you an idiot.

I just stated that I agreed about the stances and stated what I didn't like about them in here which correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the creator of the thread state the stances felt the same?

However its only stances of using the lightsaber which I stated I disliked, however I seriously doubt its going to affect my gaming experience.

Spider AL
06-10-2003, 02:18 PM
Having said that, as a human being I believe I have a right to defend whatever I say from anyone,Depends what you say. There's no defence when you run around mouthing off at people who disagree with you in an obscene manner.

saying something without a reason makes you an idiot.Firstly, reason is a relative thing. Even serial killers believe their reasons for killing to be 100% valid.

Secondly, to be brutally honest, I consider commenting on the fact that sameness of motion in a game is unlike motion in the real world to be as meaningless as commenting on the fact that the game requires you to press buttons to initiate action, instead of reading your mind and translating thought into motion... as one's real body works.

You might as well pop in one day and say "Hey, the sky's blue. It shouldn't be." Sure, you'd be entitled to your opinion. But nobody would care.

txa1265
06-10-2003, 02:35 PM
Another friendly word of advice to Darth Tyrannus ... please read what you have written before posting. I don't know if English is your native language (no insult intended there, we have a broad international community), but I've spent some time last night and today just browsing some of the threads I've not participated in, and have noticed your hand in a lot of 'poison pen' exchanges. I will not attempt to dissect rationale here, but rather hope that you can try to present your ideas, and in particular your participation in discourse, in a more constructive manner.

As for the graphics and stances, the graphics seem well improved - evolutionary as is in keeping with the nature of this game. And I've noticed that the saber-on depends at least on what saber you're carrying. I wouldn't mind some additional animations - like the slow-on from my Avatar-sake in EpIV - but I'm much more concerned that they work on the meat of the game (apologies to any offended vegans;) ) than the 'nifties' like that.

Mike

StormHammer
06-10-2003, 02:43 PM
Okay, people, I think we've gone far enough off the topic at hand. Darth Tyranus has already had his final warning, and any further inflammatory posts will mean a temp-ban. The next post that bears no (or little) relation to the topic of this thread will get deleted. If you want to argue with someone, take it off these boards and into private messaging. Thanks. :cool: