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Patrick_H
06-11-2003, 05:30 AM
Hi all- these are some screens of a new CTF/FFA map I have tentatively titled Nightfall, after an old Dark Forces mod (yes, I said Dark Forces) I did a while back called The Dark Tide II: Nightfall. The layout is based on an Imperial Garrison on Tatooine commanded by Prefect Talmont.

A Battle of Gall mp3 might accompany this.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0000.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0003.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0004.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0005.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0007.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0008.jpg

Please note- these screens were updated on 07-16-03.

rgoer
06-11-2003, 05:36 AM
Well hot damn! That is looking extremely slick--very nice architecture, Patrick. That first screenshot had me worried, but the others laid those worries to rest; it looks like it really captures the "wholistic" feeling of a well-designed structure, both inside and out. Can't wait to play it!

Khaza
06-11-2003, 08:05 AM
Hot damn ... thats one nice map you got there :eek: It has some Tribes feel on it ... maybe you should rerelease it to JA when it comes out to get those walkers playable :D Only the lighting seems a bit wrong .. over bright that is but everything else is just great.

wedge2211
06-11-2003, 12:53 PM
Very very nice...This map has a great sense of setting, and I love maps where you can go inside and out, and use the whole area to your advantage. Good work! When can I download it? :D

Patrick_H
06-12-2003, 12:17 AM
I've got a subterranean area to build connecting the lower deck of the shuttle platform to the main garrison building. It will give give a second set of routes from the red flag to blue flag areas. I would also like to add some custom textures- so maybe in a month it will be ready.

I'm not sure which screens appear "over bright" though. My monitor isn't perfect, but I don't see any problem areas so far(?).

master_thomas
06-12-2003, 09:19 AM
Darken the outside area. It seems too bright to me too.

Looks great otherwise. Good Job

Eldritch
06-12-2003, 12:26 PM
It looks like something Wedge might make.

And that's most definitely a compliment. I like the skybox. Be careful not to repeat the base's outer hull texture too much, though. It looks a little overused.

wedge2211
06-12-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Patrick_H
I've got a subterranean area to build connecting the lower deck of the shuttle platform to the main garrison building. It will give give a second set of routes from the red flag to blue flag areas.

Do I smell a hint of asymmetrical CTF in there?!?! :D

I think the lighting is fine. Reminds me of the JK levels on the Valley of the Jedi planet. Nice skybox, by the way, it fits perfectly with the map, did you make that yourself?

Patrick_H
06-12-2003, 03:50 PM
Thanks for all the critical attention. I want this to be a good map.

I went back to look at the map's lighting. It's currently lit with a 35 ambient light, and the skybox's shader is set to match the altitude and azimuth of the suns seen in the skybox. I suppose I could reduce the ambient to 25, but I'm wary of reducing it too much for visibility/playability reasons. I can do a BSP relight to shorten the compile time if I'm just tweaking lighting, correct?

I'm trying to go for a mood at dusk in the summertime, when the sun is setting, and the automatically timed streetlights in the neighboorhood have turned on although there is still a fair amount of daylight left.

The skybox I made in Bryce 4, Photoshopped in a second sun, and then made a shader that matched the sun settings used in Bryce. I won't change those settings, because they match- but I guess the ambient worldspawn lighting should darken the shadows, eh?

Eldritch, are you saying that the texture used in the buildings outer struts is overused? I was taking a cue from the outside of the Kejim installation, which was built using only a handful of textures. I'm used to seeing too much variety in textures as visually too busy. I think its better they look good as a set- i.e. greyish-blue metal together, greyish metal together, etc.
Oh well.

As for the CTF design, no- it is actually symmetrical. I don't feel like I'm up to trying to balance out that kind of a map right now.

Altus_Thrawn
06-12-2003, 07:41 PM
Wow...I like the inside/outside...it is rare to find a good map with both interior and exterior areas...but this looks like it will be one.

Patrick_H
06-13-2003, 02:17 PM
Alas, some people said the screenshots were too bright. I didn't believe them, but now that I have finally looked at the screens on my
Mac's monitor, I realize I forgot how bad that crap second-hand monitor is on the PC. I was compensating for a goddamn dim monitor! Now I've got to relight...and get a new monitor!

Patrick_H
07-15-2003, 05:04 AM
I've been busy adjusting the lighting, and the subterranean areas have been built. It's playable now with botroutes for either CTF or FFA. I took Eldritch's comments in mind, and I am working on replacing most of the Jedi Outcast textures with my own custom work. I've only got one screen on hand for now, more to follow when I get the PC back on the DSL.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0021.jpg

Kengo
07-15-2003, 07:02 AM
Those textures look very good, if you can make custom textures of that quality you can really enchance the look of a location. It all looks very sand-swept now :)

Omikron
07-15-2003, 10:06 AM
Once again I can't see the screenies, tho it sounds good.

Eldritch
07-15-2003, 11:32 AM
That shot is definitely sweet. And looks like it fits right in with the SW universe.

wedge2211
07-15-2003, 11:49 AM
I wish I could make textures like that...

Can't wait to see the rest of the new screenies. :D Have you been looking at this shot?
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/jediacademy/images/screens/19.jpg

Patrick_H
07-15-2003, 01:47 PM
No, I had not seen that screen yet, but it does make it clear to me that the colors of my skybox are too saturated, and the ground texture may be a bit too. Thanks for showing that to me- the color issues have been doubted for awhile. Now I'll have to go back and adjust the skybox- it is just too orange.

I am trying to make the garrison look like a backwater installation that looks a little worse for wear.

wedge2211
07-15-2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Patrick_H
No, I had not seen that screen yet, but it does make it clear to me that the colors of my skybox are too saturated, and the ground texture may be a bit too.
Well who says they're even on the same planet? ;) It's up to you.

Patrick_H
07-15-2003, 06:08 PM
I see your point, Wedge- but I know its not going to be on the planet of Orangina!

Eldritch
07-15-2003, 10:13 PM
Mmm... Orangina. Such a tasty and refreshing drink. :D

Patrick_H
07-16-2003, 04:32 AM
Yeah I love it. Anyhow, I've got some updated screens finally, and I took down the texture pix (running out of space):

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0009.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0011.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0014.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0015.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0016.jpg

The Truthful Liar
07-16-2003, 08:49 AM
This. Looks. Ace.

Omikron
07-16-2003, 09:02 AM
NNNNooooo

Once again I can't see images.
They worked earlier in the day but not any more.
Is it just me or is it happening to other people?

babywax
07-16-2003, 09:02 AM
Dang the skybox on that most recent shuttle pic looks amazing!

The Truthful Liar
07-16-2003, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Omikron
NNNNooooo

Once again I can't see images.
They worked earlier in the day but not any more.
Is it just me or is it happening to other people?

I feel that is it just you. :-(

Omikron
07-16-2003, 09:18 AM
Dang, it doesn't even work if I copy and pase the links.
I need to fix this.

*goes to try and work out how to fix it*

Patrick_H
07-16-2003, 10:56 AM
I'm sorry the images aren't accessible to you Omikron. I know they behave a little strangely for me in IE. Yesterday the images were appearing as links only and today they appear in the thread- WEIRD.

I have a working beta done of the map. I'm just gonna fight through it with a friend of mine and see how it plays.

I've got another question for anyone around here. What's the average RAM installed on the PCs of those here using Radiant?
I think mine's a tad low. I've got a Dell XPS t450 upgraded to a PIII 1.4 GHz, but I've only got 256MB of RAM. This makes Photoshop run like crap, so all of my 2D art is done on my Mac, which runs Photoshop alot more smoothly. I think I should invest in some more RAM for the PC.

Eldritch
07-16-2003, 10:58 AM
Very awesome. The lighting especially has come a long way from the first screenshots. Totally boss.

wedge2211
07-16-2003, 11:31 AM
I really love the way the skybox matches up with the map, and the way the installation is built onto the exterior. *gets all nostalgic about Mars*

It looks like you're still using ambient lighting. A little is okay, but I think you should try to tone that down in favor of sky lighting and entity lighting. Ambient stuff is too "diffuse."

Great job. Nice brushwork, and the textures really compliment the map. Oh, and did I mention that skybox is sexy? :)

The Cheat
07-16-2003, 12:30 PM
great looking map, i know i cant wait to play it:cool:

Patrick_H
07-16-2003, 12:54 PM
Yeah, I am using ambient lighting still. It's the only way I am able to decrease the starkness of the shadows. I was hoping it would come off as "dusty" lighting. It's set at 50 now I think. After I play it tonight on the other monitor we'll see how that goes. I've already got tons of light entities, so I'm not sure what I'll do.

wedge2211
07-16-2003, 05:04 PM
50 is probably just too much...if you're only looking to increase shadow brightness, 15 or 20 might be enough to do it.

rgoer
07-16-2003, 05:24 PM
If you want some "fill" for your shadows, drop ambient down to "10," comment out the "q3map_surfacelight" line of your sky shader, add "q3map_skylight <intensity from old surfacelight line> 4" instead, then compile in q3map2 with -bounce 8. Depending on the result you get from that compile, you might want to throw a -bouncescale value in there of 2 or 3, perhaps.

In any case, avoid "ambient" values of over 15--everything just starts to suck.

By the way, this map is starting to look pretty damned great. Is that real alphashadow coming from those grates? Even if its faked, it looks nice.

Patrick_H
07-16-2003, 09:33 PM
Thanks guys for for the advice. The strange thing is that my sky shader has the sun at a very low altitude and it is making the shadows very dark- it seems much darker than normal.

I have really got to start using Q3map2. JK2 Radiant takes about 6 hours to compile my map right now. Will Q3map2 offer a significant boost in speed?

I didn't notice that "q3map_surfacelight" line before. I have a lot left to learn about shaders. What is the difference between "surfacelight" and "skylight"?

Actually, the grate shadows are faked textures I did when I was on the DF Mod team last year. I can do much better stuff now. I have a new grate texture waiting for me to do a real alphashadow effect in that tunnel area later on. Once again, I have to play with Q3map2!

Leslie Judge
07-17-2003, 05:52 AM
I saw you have two suns on the skybox. With q3map2 you will be able to have two suns for lighting.

q3map_skylight is for making a more uniform (from-everywhere) lighting for skies. q3map_surfacelight just makes the covered surfaces to emit light.

Man, this map is looking goooood. :thumbsup:

Wudan
07-20-2003, 01:17 PM
Lately, I've not been impressed by any mapping efforts, but this one is exceptionally nice :)

Patrick_H
07-21-2003, 03:24 AM
Wow, really? Thanks, that is high praise indeed. I hope you are not let down.

After studying Cardigan's Quake III Map Estatica, I have decided to include real alphashadows in a few hallways. It looks pretty cool so far, especially when you crank up the shadows _lightmapscale to 0.0625! That's probably a tad greedy of me though. Q3map2 does rock, so thanks everybody who steered me towards it. I have been doing the editing in JK2 Radiant and then the compiling with Q3map2 Toolz. The basic shadows on the ground look like crap in sof2map by comparison!

The map plays OK for me so far. Maybe a bit slower than I would like, but nothing to kill the fun factor. After playing it with a friend online with 3 bots (5 players) I got about 40 FPS in the complex central building area and about 50-60 FPS in the shuttle landing pads. This is on a PIII 1.4 GHz / GeForce III Ti. I gotta say, it was a blast playing my own map!

clu
07-21-2003, 11:09 AM
Wow. Just saw this thread. It was said before but very nice architecture. It's so refreshing to see something that you can imagine existing in the real world. Lots and lots of juicy structure, supports and angles and not just a big textured box. Very detailed and very immersive. Great work!

-clu

Shotokan
07-21-2003, 08:39 PM
Man I really love your skybox. Also if you haven't already, stretch your glass textures to get rid of the "pixely" look. Wish I could come up with something this good

Patrick_H
07-23-2003, 01:49 AM
Stretch the- oh, great idea! I didn't even think of how that could look better, I just assumed it looked as it was supposed to. Thanks!

Shotokan
07-28-2003, 10:37 PM
Heh no prob Pat! Have any idea of a release date? *hint hint* :rolleyes:

Patrick_H
07-29-2003, 08:07 PM
Well, I hope to have it released by the end of August at the latest, after I have replaced all or most of the game textures with my own. Right now I am struggling to learn why Q3A Shader editor isn't producing shaders that are compatible with Jedi Outcast.

I selected "fit" in the surface inspector where the glass is. Worked like a charm! Thanks again.

wedge2211
07-29-2003, 08:30 PM
Q3 Shader editor? Bah. Use notepad.

Can you post an example of one of the Q3-editor-produced shaders? We might be able to spot the compatibility difference, if this editor is adding extraneous code. Another possible solution--be sure you add your .shder file's name to shaders/shaderlist.txt - that's where shaders used during compiles have to be listed. Don't put shaderlist.txt in your .pk3, though, only the .shader file.

rgoer
07-29-2003, 10:37 PM
@wedge:

ShaderEd is actually not a bad piece of soft for putting shaders together. Usually, I code them by hand in Vi or Notepad, but if I'm trying to do something I've never done before then ShaderEd (once you familiarize yourself with all of its features) can be quite handy. Choosing from its "blend" choices is especially nice--you get a preview of what each of the various blend operations would look like.

Patrick_H
07-30-2003, 11:35 AM
From my experience so far with Q3ase, I think its a shame Raven didn't just make a JK2-friendly version of it. It's really easy to use, and I can make and quickly preview some relatively advanced stuff for Q3. Its just that it cocks up my JK2 stuff.

Here is my Q3ase generated shader for a crate with a flickering light display panel:

textures/garrison/impcrate01
{
{
map textures/garrison/impcrate01.tga
blendfunc filter
}
{
map textures/garrison/impcrate01_light.tga
blendfunc add
rgbGen wave sin 0.35 0.2 1 8
}
{
map textures/garrison/impcrate01.tga
blendfunc add
rgbGen identityLighting
}
{
map textures/garrison/impcrate01.tga
blendfunc add
rgbGen identity
}
}

I first learned that JK2 can't have the file extension after the filename, so thats the first thing to delete. Beyond that, I'm stumped, especially since both Q3ase and ShaderEd are capable of previewing this shader properly. Add to my headaches the fact that I dont understand all the variables yet.

And notepad works sometime, but it still causes me trouble. I have tried using some of their existing transparent grate shaders with my own alpha channel grate textures and they refuse to work! Really weird. I have also tried using the shader from doomgiver/trim4d on my own textures to produce red flickering lights, and once again no luck. Sometimes these work and other times not.

wedge2211
07-30-2003, 04:12 PM
That *should* work. Are you sure you added your shader file's name to base/shaders/shaderlist.txt?

Patrick_H
07-30-2003, 04:59 PM
Yeah, I added garrison.shader to the list back in May. I am starting to think there is some other crap in my directories somewhere that is confusing the issue.

wedge2211
07-30-2003, 08:31 PM
Did you add garrison.shader or garrison? The entry in the list should not include the .shader extension.

Hmm...make sure that all .shader files are in the shaders/ directory (Q3A shader files went in scripts/), all textures are in the textures/ directory, and if all else fails, try packing your files into a .pk3, sometimes the game likes that better.

If none of that works, sorry man, I don't know what's causing your trouble. :(

Patrick_H
07-31-2003, 02:30 AM
Yeah I should try the .pk3 route I suppose.

Zappa_0
08-01-2003, 05:08 AM
Hey I cant wait to see this map ingame. From the screenshots it looks great! It will only look better in game. Any idea of an release date for this map? Just wondering. Anyway keep up the good work and hope to see this map soon.

Patrick_H
08-01-2003, 06:16 AM
Not to be a bummer, but it may actually look not as good in-game. You never know. I'm going to say August 30th for a release date.

Yeah, I was up all night trying out ShaderEd2. It's really pretty nice once you get used to it. It helped me solve a few shader problems I was having that would have taken forever when done "by hand".
It's also a great learning tool. I learned a lot previewing Raven's shaders in ShaderEd2, and then comparing the information with the handy Q3 shader manual by Paul Jacquays. I already have a bunch of ideas for custom shaders now!

Got some updates:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0028.jpg

Seen above is a huge wall texture I recently did. This shows Q3map2 set for bounce 6 and bouncescale 2. Ambient is down to 10 now, and skylight is at 40.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0029.jpg
Here we see some ramps added in for better flow in gameplay.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0030.jpg
This shot isn't actually this bright in game. It's brighter than before though, and I removed the "Arcade game" machine between the stairs to improve the flow, and added some red and blue accents for the CTF theme,

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0031.jpg
This is a fun shot of the last thing you see before you fall to your death in the cavern.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1sx51/haslow/misc/shot0032.jpg
This last one shows the "blue" cavern area where I added in two new textures- the grates and the vertical wall panels with blue lights.

Eldritch
08-01-2003, 12:47 PM
Very nice, Patrick. I really like the canyon area and the new wall panel. :D

wedge2211
08-01-2003, 12:49 PM
Awesome, Patrick. I'm a fan. :)

This really throws me back to the style of JK/MotS, and I mean that in the good way. The map reminds me of the Valley of the Jedi Planet or the MotS Imperial asteroid levels. It really does have a distinct style going for it.

What remains to be done? The shots you've posted all look VERY complete, down to the little details. A month is a long time to finish a map off...are there lots of unconstructed areas?

Shotokan
08-01-2003, 05:57 PM
This really throws me back to the style of JK/MotS, and I mean that in the good way. The map reminds me of the Valley of the Jedi Planet or the MotS Imperial asteroid levels. It really does have a distinct style going for it.

Does that for me too wedge :p. Good old nostalgia. Hey Pat keep it up and I am greatly looking forward to this map's release hehe.

Reclaimer
08-01-2003, 06:13 PM
Does it have CTF just wourdering.But that Map is GREAT I'm d/l it right when it's done!

Patrick_H
08-01-2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by wedge2211
What remains to be done? The shots you've posted all look VERY complete, down to the little details. A month is a long time to finish a map off...are there lots of unconstructed areas?

Well, no. It's mostly built. It's just that I am being realistic about replacing all of the JO textures with my own. Each texture I do takes me about 2-3 hours to design and then create in Photoshop. See, I am gunning for a job in the industry... so for my own aims, everything has to be "portfolio" material.

Patrick_H
08-01-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Reclaimer
Does it have CTF just wourdering.But that Map is GREAT I'm d/l it right when it's done!

The map is actually built in a CTF layout. There are blue and red shuttle pad and cavern areas to the west and east of the central canyon/garrison area. Maybe a FFA version should only have one shuttle area? Or should it just be the same map as CTF? I have only tested it in FFA so far. The gang at df-21.net will be helping me out in the CTF test this month.

Now that I think of it, the only thing bothering me about the canyon is the manufactured look of it. I am considering creating a heightmap and redoing all the rock contours in gensurf or easygen for a more natural look.

Reclaimer
08-01-2003, 06:26 PM
Keep it with two shuttle ports it would be easier.

Any release date yet?

rgoer
08-01-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Patrick_H
...I'm going to say August 30th for a release date....Did you even read the thread?
;^)

Reclaimer
08-03-2003, 01:22 PM
Hey Pat in one of your screens there are two AT-ST's are they drivable?

Reclaimer
08-03-2003, 05:33 PM
Cool that is the best map I've seen!

Eldritch
08-03-2003, 10:25 PM
Patrick, I would be reaaaaly careful about posting shots of that leaked beta. It might be prudent to pull that shot down until after JA has been officially released.

Just a friendly warning - you never know who might see it.

Shotokan
08-10-2003, 03:36 AM
Who knows, I may be a mod in disguise! (I'm not don't worry... Haha) Many bad things can happen to people with illegal things...

The Truthful Liar
08-10-2003, 02:07 PM
I'll quote myself here.

I have to warn you about posting screenshots taken in the pre-official released version of JA.

I'm supposed to notify the admins so they can list the names (and IP) of those persons who have aquired the JA alpha/beta to Raven Software.

So, in short, don't post them again.

Shotokan
08-22-2003, 06:50 AM
Hey Pat, since JA is gonna come out pretty soon are you gonna hold this off and release it for JA? Sorry if this was asked before, and if it was, well... Feel free to smack me around *runs for cover*

Patrick_H
08-22-2003, 11:04 AM
That's a good possibility. The people at massassi.net recommended releasing maybe a month after Jedi Academy's release. I think I might just do that. I'm busy learning UnrealEd at the moment anyway.

Shotokan
08-22-2003, 08:07 PM
Ah ok. Just was wondering.

Emon
08-22-2003, 08:54 PM
Yes, wait until the novelty of JA dies down before you release it. Otherwise people will be like "OMG WOW THIS GAME IS SO COOL!!! What's that, a user level, oh I don't care THESE LEVELS ARE JUST SO COOL OMG I CAN DO THAT!@?!"

Patrick_H
08-24-2003, 06:14 AM
This of course means the good people at http://www.df-21.net will be playing it a month before everyone else!

Ockniel
08-30-2003, 01:02 AM
your maps are way better than mine, hey could I get that shader your using(pls send to www.ahnilator03@cs.com if you can) I'd really appreciate it

your map is SO COOL!!!!! I cant get over it

Patrick_H
08-30-2003, 03:47 PM
I'm not sure which shader you want.

Captian
08-30-2003, 08:59 PM
hey patrick, you wouldnt happen to be [div3rse.shaz] would you?

Patrick_H
08-31-2003, 04:55 AM
Uh...no. I am not even sure what you are talking about (alias?). That seems a common thread here lately.

Captian
08-31-2003, 09:27 PM
i was talking about player name in jk2, but oh well. hows the map going?

Patrick_H
09-02-2003, 03:37 AM
Oh I see. You'll know me in the game as Malus, or the one who gets his ass whooped a lot. I'm better at building than playing. The map is still there sitting for the moment. I am working a lot at new textures so there is a lot left to do. I was hoping to get it out in August. Oh well. I should be releasing it probably in October for Jedi Academy. I am split between my work in Dark Forces and stuff for UT2K3, so I am in no hurry. When I do any more work I'll post screens.

Patrick_H
10-18-2003, 11:15 PM
Oh well, I guess an October release is out of the question. I'm just too busy right now and I haven't even bought JA yet, let alone adding in the rest of the new textures. Maybe sometime before the end of November.