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The Count
06-11-2003, 08:30 PM
I have kept my mouth shut about him for a long time but now I can't hold my intense dislike of this buffon any longer, the guy is an absolute wanker, he's a bloody loose cannon, before September 11th he was after the Chinnese (remember the spy plane incident) and because terrorists claiming in the name of Muslims attacked the World Trade Centre, that gives him the right to go into the Middle East and do whathever the hell he wants.

First it was Iraq, which they went in to achieve a right end but their motives were purely in question, if you ask me its more than gaining oil, more like establishing a power base in the Middle East so they can dominate the region with much less effort.

This is all about American Imperialism, now the USSR has gone the USA believe they can do anything they want.

Thank God Great Britain were with the Americans though in Iraq, if the British weren't there to moderate the Americans then who knows what even greater extent of anarchy could occur. The British took Basra on a great proffessional level strategically taking the whole city with looting and social disorder was nothing in comparrison to the kind in Bhagdad were looting and social disorder was widespread , and why because the Americans went straight for the oil fields.

Even that American girl "captured" by the Iraqis was a propoganda ploy placed there by the Americans.

George W. Bush aint too bright either I mean he referred to Pakistani people as pakis!

I cannot wait until the EU becomes a force to challenge to American dominance, seeing as in nature Europeans are so much civillised than the USA, atleast morality will come into their foreign policy.

Please God now do not allow George W. Bush another term in office (I bet you if Al-Gore were President, the events of Sep 11th 2001 would not have occured) if this happens we can be assured more American Imperialism and arrogancy.

El Sitherino
06-11-2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
the guy is an absolute wanker:rofl: first off i just gotta laugh about that.

and yeah i agree he's gone kinda psycho. the only good thing he's done in office was make sure the nation wide amber alert bill was signed.

neo262
06-11-2003, 08:37 PM
I think God used September 11th as a revival of the Christian faith. God does not chastise us because we have chosen George W. Bush as President. He is a Christian, and we should be thankful because of that.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
I have kept my mouth shut about him for a long time but now I can't hold my intense dislike of this buffon any longer, the guy is an absolute wanker, he's a bloody loose cannon, before September 11th he was after the Chinnese (remember the spy plane incident) and because terrorists claiming in the name of Muslims attacked the World Trade Centre, that gives him the right to go into the Middle East and do whathever the hell he wants.

First it was Iraq, which they went in to achieve a right end but their motives were purely in question, if you ask me its more than gaining oil, more like establishing a power base in the Middle East so they can dominate the region with much less effort.

This is all about American Imperialism, now the USSR has gone the USA believe they can do anything they want.

Thank God Great Britain were with the Americans though in Iraq, if the British weren't there to moderate the Americans then who knows what even greater extent of anarchy could occur. The British took Basra on a great proffessional level strategically taking the whole city with looting and social disorder was nothing in comparrison to the kind in Bhagdad were looting and social disorder was widespread , and why because the Americans went straight for the oil fields.

Even that American girl "captured" by the Iraqis was a propoganda ploy placed there by the Americans.

George W. Bush aint too bright either I mean he referred to Pakistani people as pakis!

I cannot wait until the EU becomes a force to challenge to American dominance, seeing as in nature Europeans are so much civillised than the USA, atleast morality will come into their foreign policy.

Please God now do not allow George W. Bush another term in office (I bet you if Al-Gore were President, the events of Sep 11th 2001 would not have occured) if this happens we can be assured more American Imperialism and arrogancy.

:D man when will you guys get the fact that september 11 was not his fault, its absolute bull crap what broadcasters like CNN, try to cram in your brain. What makes you think Bush knew about it, and if he did know that means he hates america and other countries that were impacted by the bombins. And if he hated everyone why would he start a war to flee sadam. Doesnt that mean you like the country so much that you would get rid of their leader to make it better for them. And ill tell you one thing, he is hella more intellegent than probably all of us, so shut your pie hole about he is stupid. I would like to see you non bushers get up in front of millions and give a speech that will attract attention and not lie. And if you have negative comments about not lying you guys must not know Al Gore very well. Now all im trying to say is get a grip and come to terms with reality. You guys are stuck in some peachful dream world, where everything is peachy and happy. The world doesnt work like that. Im tired of hearing all of this negative crap about him, hey if you want someone to yell at, yell at yourselves for being so ignorant and self centered. The world doesnt revolve around what you think and what you want. Look at Al Gore closely and listen to the way he speaks, he looks and acts like a bum on the street. Letteing his beard grow and not shaving for months, like a hobo. Geez, you talk about the way Bush speaks, Gore sounds like he on crack. As for the next election I am voting for Bush, I am a pretty sure that most people will too.

The Count
06-11-2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
:rofl: first off i just gotta laugh about that.


That's British humor for you.

Neo if God caused Sep 11th as a revival of Christian faith (I highly doubt it did though) that would be a a contradiction to his omnibenevolence, not the sort of qualities of a loving God.

Breton
06-11-2003, 08:44 PM
I dislike Bush myself, but I do believe you overreact slightly, DT. For instance, I relly doubt it would matter whether UK was with them or not.

But on the other hand, it is quite likely now that it was done due to, or partly due to, oil. Even thouhg it is yet not disproven that Iraq had WoMDs, we still know that it isn't nealry as much or as open as US and UK accused Iraq for. They have come with false intelligence to the security council, we all know that. I am very suprised that the fact that Bush and his goverment lied to the whole world matters so little in the States.

Back to Iraq: US had 0 rights to attack Iraq. You simply can't attack a country just because you don't like its leader. But the US goverment does not seem to care, they know that no one can stop them in their crimes (yes, they are doing crimes against international law), and that's why they can do it without fearing any actions taken against them.

There is no doubt that Bush&friends have been doing some nice bit of propaganda here. I mean, just look at Fox News and Bill O'Reilly. If they aren't biased and unpartial, then no one is.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
That's British humor for you.

Neo if God caused Sep 11th as a revival of Christian faith (I highly doubt it did though) that would be a a contradiction to his omnibenevolence, not the sort of qualities of a loving God.

Shut up you pumkin pied redneck, dont you ever say crap about God like that again, you sleezy snoz wanking homo. I thin keverything Neo said was pure truth and I congratulate him on that. If god hated us dont you think the world would be over by know i mean come on, If he hated us why would he give us life. And if you had any brain you would know that people like you have hateful qualities you wack. I swear people like you are worthless, you do nobody good, all you do is complain about what you want, its all you, get your head out of your but and face reality.

And Breton, do you perhaps read history books cause if you do you would know that in 1997-1999 sadam killed over 20,000 kurds, half on video tape. But I guess Sadam seems like a nice guy:rolleyes:

Breton
06-11-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
[BDoesnt that mean you like the country so much that you would get rid of their leader to make it better for them. [/B]

As I said, you can't attack a country for having a bad leader. Many people and countries in the world thinks that USA would be better off with another person than Bush as leader. Does that mean that these countries should attack USA? If not, tell me why.

And ill tell you one thing, he is hella more intellegent than probably all of us, so shut your pie hole about he is stupid.

And now, you are assuming things. This is much like "Not sure if he is right, but I'll support him anyway, since I assume he is smart". I can assure you, Bush is a very simple man, if you look at his way of acting and his words.

I would like to see you non bushers get up in front of millions and give a speech that will attract attention and not lie.

Many more intelligent people than him has done so. But the "not lie" is a bit false. He lied about Iraq being a threat to the world, remember?

. Now all im trying to say is get a grip and come to terms with reality. You guys are stuck in some peachful dream world, where everything is peachy and happy. The world doesnt work like that.

Of course, the world isn't like that! And do you know why? Because people like Bush screw international law and do precisely what he wants. The fact that there is wars in the world, is absolutly no argument for making more wars.

. Im tired of hearing all of this negative crap about him, hey if you want someone to yell at, yell at yourselves for being so ignorant and self centered.

Personal attacks. If you wish to debate, stop the attacks.

Look at Al Gore closely and listen to the way he speaks, he looks and acts like a bum on the street. Letteing his beard grow and not shaving for months, like a hobo. Geez, you talk about the way Bush speaks, Gore sounds like he on crack. As for the next election I am voting for Bush, I am a pretty sure that most people will too.

Nowhere have I said that Al Gore would be a better president. No one knows if he would or would not. Yet, to assume that a person can't be a good president if he doesn't shave for a few days is far from what I believe is a well thought through decision.

neo262
06-11-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
Neo if God caused Sep 11th as a revival of Christian faith (I highly doubt it did though) that would be a a contradiction to his omnibenevolence, not the sort of qualities of a loving God. [/B] Well, because of sin things like Sept. 11 will happen. Sometimes God allows things to happen to touch people's lives and bring them back to faith. God wouldn't want Sept.11 to happen, but He could ALLOW it.

El Sitherino
06-11-2003, 08:55 PM
in a way it is his being in office that is responsible.

Bush sr. pushed the front on the middle east in the late 80's early 90's.
these military fronts caused the death of much of bin Laden's family and friends. this also pushed other arab fundamentalists to become aggressive becomes these military fronts caused thousands of deaths in the middle east.
well since Bush jr. is exactly that, Bush jr. they took his time in office as their time for a major strike(revenge of the biggest kind) what this does is it instills anger and it causes a want for retalliation(on our part, or it causes us to hate bush) either way they win because they are of course right now getting everyone to hate bush.

The Count
06-11-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
:D man when will you guys get the fact that september 11 was not his fault, its absolute bull crap what broadcasters like CNN, try to cram in your brain. What makes you think Bush knew about it, and if he did know that means he hates america and other countries that were impacted by the bombins. And if he hated everyone why would he start a war to flee sadam. Doesnt that mean you like the country so much that you would get rid of their leader to make it better for them. And ill tell you one thing, he is hella more intellegent than probably all of us, so shut your pie hole about he is stupid. I would like to see you non bushers get up in front of millions and give a speech that will attract attention and not lie. And if you have negative comments about not lying you guys must not know Al Gore very well. Now all im trying to say is get a grip and come to terms with reality. You guys are stuck in some peachful dream world, where everything is peachy and happy. The world doesnt work like that. Im tired of hearing all of this negative crap about him, hey if you want someone to yell at, yell at yourselves for being so ignorant and self centered. The world doesnt revolve around what you think and what you want. Look at Al Gore closely and listen to the way he speaks, he looks and acts like a bum on the street. Letteing his beard grow and not shaving for months, like a hobo. Geez, you talk about the way Bush speaks, Gore sounds like he on crack. As for the next election I am voting for Bush, I am a pretty sure that most people will too.

God aren't you compassionate about a primate? You're voting for Bush? well lets hope those in America with a conscience out weigh people such as yourself (he lost the last election technically) I never said Bush knew about Sep 11th where the hell did you derive that from I stated that if he wasn't the President then it wouldn't have happened because Al-Gore isn't an arrogant wanker in issues such as foreign policy, Bush being an arrogant wanker provoked that attack.

May politicians have not been very intelligent I mean you only have to look at Jimmy Carter, being soft on Communism is being soft in the head. Bush isn't intelligent at all, his advisors however are, and any politician can get up and start a speech don't make them intelligent.

Also excuse me I never said anything with the way Bush speaks I said what he speaks, also this ******* Bush is happy to pollute our Earth just so he drill oil somewhere.

Also denouncing a politician because of his looks is not really substance to your argument, it just highlights your ignorance.

Therefore I believe it is you who is being ignorant and please if you want to get into a debate please read the facts presented upon you isntead of jumping to a conclusion I'm British I don't even have CNN, I believe he was the catalyst for Sep 11th not he knew about it and let it happen, if he did we would know and he would have been impeached by now.

If you're tired of hearing negative crap of him simple just ignore it, because as soon as he's gone (hopefully next year) the criticism will just be for the Historians.

Breton
06-11-2003, 08:59 PM
Please, Father Tourqe and Darth Tyranus, stop the personal attacks, or a mod will close this thread. Try to debate without calling each other ignorant and brainless, ok?

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:02 PM
Yeah. We could go on and on about this stuff. Darth Tyrannus for President! lol

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Breton
Nowhere have I said that Al Gore would be a better president. No one knows if he would or would not. Yet, to assume that a person can't be a good president if he doesn't shave for a few days is far from what I believe is a well thought through decision. [/QUOTE]

If a guy is to lazy to shave or busy to shave that says a lot about what kind of president he would, and I never said you said that al gore would be a bad pre, DT did;)

Breton
06-11-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque

And Breton, do you perhaps read history books cause if you do you would know that in 1997-1999 sadam killed over 20,000 kurds, half on video tape. But I guess Sadam seems like a nice guy:rolleyes:

http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/library/wonderful/index.php

And this is the third time I say it: You can't attack a country for having a bad leader.

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
Shut up you pumkin pied redneck, dont you ever say crap about God like that again, you sleezy snoz wanking homo. I thin keverything Neo said was pure truth and I congratulate him on that. If god hated us dont you think the world would be over by know i mean come on, If he hated us why would he give us life. And if you had any brain you would know that people like you have hateful qualities you wack. I swear people like you are worthless, you do nobody good, all you do is complain about what you want, its all you, get your head out of your but and face reality.

And Breton, do you perhaps read history books cause if you do you would know that in 1997-1999 sadam killed over 20,000 kurds, half on video tape. But I guess Sadam seems like a nice guy:rolleyes:

Excuse me I believe you have never read a decent History book in your whole life and Red Necks you ignorant little man are usually God Fearing right wingers such as yourself.

It is not compliaing it is analysing something objectivley. Sadamn and Bush are both Monsters which is the worst I don't know I supported the war on Iraq but only because I knew Great Britain were there to stop ensure that Iraq wouldn not be ruined.

Father Torque you're ignorance sickens me to no end, Bush is an ******* and I never said anything bad about God (lets not get into an argument about whether he exists or not) personally I take a Deist approach of whether God exists, and I know you haven't got a clue what I'm talking about (until you consult an encylopedia, I bet you will do this because your desperate to argue your right wing red neck view point.)

El Sitherino
06-11-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by neo262
Well, because of sin things like Sept. 11 will happen. Sometimes God allows things to happen to touch people's lives and bring them back to faith. God wouldn't want Sept.11 to happen, but He could ALLOW it. god sounds like that ignorant parent that lets their kid get takin when you say that. makes him sound like that bad apple that rots society.

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:07 PM
Gore would have been a better president because he has more of a conscience than Bush (who lacks one) and isn't some Imperialist Gun touting wack.

Also George W. Bush gave death scentences to the most Criminals in the history of America, proves my view on his lack of regard for the sanctity of life.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
god sounds like that ignorant parent that lets their kid get takin when you say that. makes him sound like that bad apple that rots society.

God does not control what we do Insane that is our own sin, not his.

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
god sounds like that ignorant parent that lets their kid get takin when you say that. makes him sound like that bad apple that rots society.

Think whatever you want to think. These debates could go on for ages... Vote Smart! Vote Darth Tyrannus! :D

God does not control what we do Insane that is our own sin, not his.
Precisely, fellow Lutheran!

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:09 PM
Also Torque using deragotory homophobic language aren't the qualities I'd expect from a Christian.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
Gore would have been a better president because he has more of a conscience than Bush (who lacks one) and isn't some Imperialist Gun touting wack.

Also George W. Bush gave death scentences to the most Criminals in the history of America, proves my view on his lack of regard for the sanctity of life.

Thats a good thing Darth Tyrannus

Hey lets stop the personal wars like Breton said, but never talk about God like thay again, and in return i will have a nice debate with you;)

Breton
06-11-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
God does not control what we do Insane that is our own sin, not his.

Yet, it says in the bible that he can forsee the future. That means that people can't have free will, as God is all-powerful. But it also says in the bible that he does not control everyone.

The Bible disproves itself.

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Breton
Yet, it says in the bible that he can forsee the future. That means that people can't have free will, as God is all-powerful. But it also says in the bible that he does not control everyone.

The Bible disproves itself.


The Bible is as bad as Mien Kampf, I mean how many Christian atrocoties have their been commited?

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Breton
Yet, it says in the bible that he can forsee the future. That means that people can't have free will, as God is all-powerful. But it also says in the bible that he does not control everyone.

The Bible disproves itself.

Hmmm havent seen that in the bible what book and what verses?. And if thats true, it doesnt mean he will change them so in this case it doesnt because he can see ahead, but that doesnt mean he will change anything;)

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Breton
Yet, it says in the bible that he can forsee the future. That means that people can't have free will, as God is all-powerful. But it also says in the bible that he does not control everyone.

The Bible disproves itself.

It means that he can see the future, but he allows sin to happen. That means we have freedom of choice. Just because he can see the future does not mean that we do not have choice. He sees the choices we make.

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
Thats a good thing Darth Tyrannus

Hey lets stop the personal wars like Breton said, but never talk about God like thay again, and in return i will have a nice debate with you;)

I never said anything about God which was wrong did I state that God preparing Sep 11th is stating he is not a loving God due to him allowing suffering.

Its not a good thing Human Life is sanctified, we should teach those who break this rule why it is wrong. Also Killing even criminals is according to the Christianity doctrine wrong, and goes against the golden Christian Rule "Do Unto others as you do yourself"

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
The Bible is as bad as Mien Kampf, I mean how many Christian atrocoties have their been commited?

My gosh DT, what does it take to have you stop diding my and other religion, how bout I say you are acting worse than a 3 year old. And I have no clue what atrocoties are but im thinking it is along the line of the child molestations. Lets put it this way, god gave us reproductive organs so we can reproduce. These priest are refrained from all reproductive activity for 50+ years. Now tell me could you go 50 years without having it? I think not.

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
I never said anything about God which was wrong did I state that God preparing Sep 11th is stating he is not a loving God due to him allowing suffering.

Its not a good thing Human Life is sanctified, we should teach those who break this rule why it is wrong. Also Killing even criminals is according to the Christianity doctrine wrong, and goes against the golden Christian Rule "Do Unto others as you do yourself"

God does not control us. And like I said, God allows sin to happen. Sept. 11 (I don't know how many times I've said this already.) brought countless people back to faith!

El Sitherino
06-11-2003, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
If a guy is to lazy to shave or busy to shave that says a lot about what kind of president he would, and I never said you said that al gore would be a bad pre, DT did;) why can't he just grow a freakin beard. lincoln had a beard, does that mean he was lazy? hell no, it means he wanted a freakin beard.

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
My gosh DT, what does it take to have you stop diding my and other religion, how bout I say you are acting worse than a 3 year old. And I have no clue what atrocoties are but im thinking it is along the line of the child molestations. Lets put it this way, god gave us reproductive organs so we can reproduce. These priest are refrained from all reproductive activity for 50+ years. Now tell me could you go 50 years without having it? I think not.

1.Well the colonising by the Europeans enforced Christianity on the Africans.

2.The Crusades

3. I could go on but I won't

Also are you justifying paedophillia? by stating its ok for Priests to have sex with little children because they haven't had it in along time, YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT preists took a vow of celibacy this requires them not to have sex and dedicate their lives to the church, if you can't do that you are not cut out to be a priest, and being justifying rape is possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard, you should be disgusted with yourself, and edit that post immediatley so no one else sees what a terrible thing you have wrote! What about those poor children who were raped by those Priests, those Priests are filth.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
I never said anything about God which was wrong did I state that God preparing Sep 11th is stating he is not a loving God due to him allowing suffering.

Its not a good thing Human Life is sanctified, we should teach those who break this rule why it is wrong. Also Killing even criminals is according to the Christianity doctrine wrong, and goes against the golden Christian Rule "Do Unto others as you do yourself"

Thats not a commandment DT, read them and you discover why he has been putting so many CRIMINALS to death, they are criminals doesnt that say something to you, being a criminal means you have done one of the major sins. And it states that God will punish tose who use his name for evil purposes or for those who mis trust or hate him.

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:27 PM
Nobody's perfect. It is in our human nature to sin.

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
Thats not a commandment DT, read them and you discover why he has been putting so many CRIMINALS to death, they are criminals doesnt that say something to you, being a criminal means you have done one of the major sins. And it states that God will punish tose who use his name for evil purposes or for those who mis trust or hate him.

No sin is bigger than any other. God just let the sin that the Muslims were going to commit happen.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
1.Well the colonising by the Europeans enforced Christianity on the Africans.

2.The Crusades

3. I could go on but I won't

Also are you justifying paedophillia? by stating its ok for Priests to have sex with little children because they haven't had it in along time, YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT preists took a vow of celibacy this requires them not to have sex and dedicate their lives to the church, if you can't do that you are not cut out to be a priest, and being justifying rape is possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard, you should be disgusted with yourself, and edit that post immediatley so no one else sees what a terrible thing you have wrote! What about those poor children who were raped by those Priests, those Priests are filth.

I am not saying its good for them to do that, youre just not thinking beyond the what. Maybe try thinking about the why;)

El Sitherino
06-11-2003, 09:31 PM
hmm perhaps we can compare god to ourselves when we play games such as starcraft.
ok we play a game of starcraft, we can allow the people to do what they want but we don't because they are bumbling idiots with guns(much like ourselves)
well why doesn't god makes this world perfect and control us.

to lighten the mood: i want to be a zerg.:)

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
hmm perhaps we can compare god to ourselves when we play games such as starcraft.
ok we play a game of starcraft, we can allow the people to do what they want but we don't because they are bumbling idiots with guns(much like ourselves)
well why doesn't god makes this world perfect and control us.

to lighten the mood: i want to be a zerg.:)

God wants to give us the freedom of choice whether to believe in Him or not. That is why we are not his puppets.

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
Thats not a commandment DT, read them and you discover why he has been putting so many CRIMINALS to death, they are criminals doesnt that say something to you, being a criminal means you have done one of the major sins. And it states that God will punish tose who use his name for evil purposes or for those who mis trust or hate him.

I just did a religious studies examination so yes it is in terms of morality it is the GOLDEN CHRISTIAN RULE .

2. Also remember the Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill"

2 wrongs don't make a right FT, oh he killed that girl, lets break the rule and kill that guy. that is your logic its ok to kill them,

If God will punish them why did Bush kill them, God can wait for them.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by neo262
Nobody's perfect. It is in our human nature to sin.

Yes, but these people dont believe in God #1 becaus if they did they wouldnt do it (the crime), #2 All sins are crimes. And # 3, why are you guys feeling sad for Criminals, they commited sin and half of them dont believe in god which i said earlier, meaning theydont believe in Jesus which mean they dont ask for forgivness of sin.

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:35 PM
Right on, fellow Lutheran!

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
I just did a religious studies examination so yes it is in terms of morality.

2. Also remember the Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill"

2 wrongs don't make a right FT, oh he killed that girl, lets break the rule and kill that guy.

Ok ,DT know you are losing it. A guy kills a girl, everybody o its ok lets let him do it again. And youre a hipocrit you said Thou shall not kill ,which is a commandment, so why is it ok for this kill?

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
I am not saying its good for them to do that, youre just not thinking beyond the what. Maybe try thinking about the why;)


WHY BECAUSE THEY ARE PERVERTED BASTARDS THATS WHY THEY RAPE KIDS!


NOT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET ANY, THATS LIKE SAYING I GOT A GUN FOR KILLING BUT I JUST SAID I WOULD NEVER KILL, WAIT 10 YEARS SHOOT SOMEONE, justification: I HAD A GUN USED FOR KILLING!

Most of the priests in this have been in this scandal young aswell esp. in the UK.

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:37 PM
DT, one can always ask God for forgiveness and show fruits of his forgiveness.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
hmm perhaps we can compare god to ourselves when we play games such as starcraft.
ok we play a game of starcraft, we can allow the people to do what they want but we don't because they are bumbling idiots with guns(much like ourselves)
well why doesn't god makes this world perfect and control us.

to lighten the mood: i want to be a zerg.:)

Life isnt a game IS;)

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by neo262
DT, one can always ask God for forgiveness and show fruits of his forgiveness.

Right on, fellow Lutheren:p

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:41 PM
I meant to say "fruits of his or her repentance.", but thats ok.

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
Ok ,DT know you are losing it. A guy kills a girl, everybody o its ok lets let him do it again. And youre a hipocrit you said Thou shall not kill ,which is a commandment, so why is it ok for this kill?

You sir are a bloody idiot, that is what you were implying, I used that as an example for your logic.

You say its ok to kill Criminals

I state though shalt not kill


your logic would state,

if a girl was killed by a man

then you would say from your last post it was ok to kill that man as he was a criminal

I stated that that this is a hypocritical statemnent from your logic

I state you can't kill someone because they killed somone, you said this was ok to do.

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:41 PM
Is it over????????
Edit: spoke too soon

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by neo262
DT, one can always ask God for forgiveness and show fruits of his forgiveness.

Killing someone is hardly giving forgiveness.

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:43 PM
That's why you ask GOD for forgiveness. DT, you ARE losing it.

neo262
06-11-2003, 09:45 PM
I'll brb. Hope this doesn't go on much longer. Take em' on, Father Torque!

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:47 PM
I hope this thread isn't locked by the time I get up but it probably will be, but I am right Geroge Bush is an ******* his foreign policy is an expansionist one, and FT you sir are the biggest Christian hypocrite ever.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:47 PM
Hmmmm directly coated from the Bible

Originally coated in the Bible
Whoever hits someone and kills them shall be put to death

That is in Exodus 21 verse 12

So my point is proven DT, please dont argue on THIS subject anymore lets move onto something else unless you have something you really want to say.

The Count
06-11-2003, 09:52 PM
You are forgetting "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and referal to the New Testament Turn the other cheek, the old testament is outdated.

Also what about Jesus dying for our sins so we could be redemmed?

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
You are forgetting "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and referal to the New Testament Turn the other cheek, the old testament is outdated.

It is still the Word of God

And in the new testamant it still states that if one hits and kills a person that the person will be put to death

neo262
06-11-2003, 10:00 PM
DT, out of Luther's Small Catechism, it says under the 5th Commandment(You shall not murder) that lawful government, as God's servants, may execute criminals and fight just wars.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by neo262
DT, out of Luther's Small Catechism, it says under the 5th Commandment(You shall not murder) that lawful government, as God's servants, may execute criminals and fight just wars.

Go neo262, its your birthday:p

Good Job man, I think we finally shut um down:)

Couldnt have done it with out ya;)

neo262
06-11-2003, 10:07 PM
YEEEEHAW!!!! We did it!

Edit: maybe I can get a glowing name now! lol

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by neo262
YEEEEHAW!!!! We did it!

Edit: maybe I can get a glowing name now! lol

Here have 50 points, and come to the FTF at the top of the screen, me and other donaters will make sure you get your glowy name;)

neo262
06-11-2003, 10:15 PM
Alright! Thanks, FT!

Captain Wilson
06-11-2003, 10:28 PM
well, that was an intresting threaed to read.
FT and neo, you could of gone with the teaching an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life.
by the way , how did i thread about GWB become a deep religous debate...:confused: oh well:p

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Captain Wilson
well, that was an intresting threaed to read.
FT and neo, you could of gone with the teaching an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life.
by the way , how did i thread about GWB become a deep religous debate...:confused: oh well:p

Hmm never thought of that Wilson, too bad you missed the debate, which side are you on lets hear your opinion:)

neo262
06-11-2003, 10:43 PM
We don't need another religous debate... lol Although it was rather fun! :D

Captain Wilson
06-11-2003, 10:53 PM
..someone asking for my opinion:eek:theres a first for everything;)
well on bush, i think hes big headed, aggorant and in most cases wrong. But he is a good leader, look at Uks primester, blair ((i come from UK)) hes worse. i feel that attacking iraq was right but for the wrong reasons.
on the god thing...i feel that for one god isnt nice at all. Jesus yes ..god no. Example, the great flood ((noahs ark)). he killed the whole human race bar one family as they didnt follow him. many examples of god sending his chosen people out on wars. But i feel events such as Sep 11th are tests of faith. In this day and age we neeed god more then we know.
on the death penalty, if someone gives them self the right to take a life, then they give some one the right to take there life. But as jesus said 'let him without sin cast the first stone'
and were is all this going to you ask

well nowhere i guess :D

Thrackan Solo
06-11-2003, 11:08 PM
...
...
...
...

Not another Bush thread. TAKE IT TO THE SENATE!!!!:mad:

neo262
06-11-2003, 11:14 PM
Torque and I could go on and on about this, but I really don't need another debate again today. But I have to tell you that Jesus(God the Son), God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit form a trinity, thus getting the name, the Trinity. Don't ask me to get into depth because it is EXTREMELY complicated and is beyond human understanding.

El Sitherino
06-11-2003, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque
Yes, but these people dont believe in God #1 becaus if they did they wouldnt do it (the crime), #2 All sins are crimes. And # 3, why are you guys feeling sad for Criminals, they commited sin and half of them dont believe in god which i said earlier, meaning theydont believe in Jesus which mean they dont ask for forgivness of sin. there you are wrong. 98% of all serial killers are devout religious people 94% of the killers are christian. 6% are assorted. they also chose to kill because god told them to. :). loving god. and whose to say they didn't actually hear god. it's the same possiblity as that they didn't hear god. so it's 50/50 chance they did hear god.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 11:23 PM
Yes he is right right no more debating from us today, but maybe tommarow:p

And I was reading through the bible under the punsihement and command book in the Bible and I noticed that it mentioned a city called zion:D

Well, atleast you explained your views in an acceptable manner CW, thanks for that:) . I hate it when people start a debate off by saying all of this crud that makes no sense and is irr-relevant to the topic.

And IS, give me one piece of fact and I will start thinking about believing you, and also they arent christians if they sin so much they are put in jail, unless they ask for forgiveness, and only god and Jesus know, so for no dont through up wild numbers from the blue;) . Sorry for the beating IS, you're still my friend:)

Ooooh, and neo262, good point on the trinity thing I will explain tommarow if you dont have the chance, also My churches name is Holy Trinity.:D

El Sitherino
06-11-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by neo262
DT, one can always ask God for forgiveness and show fruits of his forgiveness. ok i'll go and kill your mother ask for god's forgiveness and all is good [/end hypothetical scenario]

also FT life can often be compared to a game. besides all games are based on life. if you live in a game with no cheats you could be in a real world. think of the matrix. the matrix was a program everyone lives in. well games are programs. couldn't you just live your life normally and consider oh i go to work that 100 shubblah points(whatever you wanna call it) all in all it's that life is a game because it's just here no real point. you get money from doing odd job's. where does the money go, random things(items), medicine(health potion), food(energy potion). i can compare life to an rpg, why? because all games are based off of real life.

Father Torque
06-11-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
ok i'll go and kill your mother ask for god's forgiveness and all is good [/end hypothetical scenario]

also FT life can often be compared to a game. besides all games are based on life. if you live in a game with no cheats you could be in a real world. think of the matrix. the matrix was a program everyone lives in. well games are programs. couldn't you just live your life normally and consider oh i go to work that 100 shubblah points(whatever you wanna call it) all in all it's that life is a game because it's just here no real point. you get money from doing odd job's. where does the money go, random things(items), medicine(health potion), food(energy potion). i can compare life to an rpg, why? because all games are based off of real life.

Thats not what it means IS, it says in the bible, those who hit and kill someone will be put to death. But if you ask for forgivness to Jesus you will go to Heaven, even if you are prosicuted in life:)

And ill say it again, the world is not a game IS, all games arent based off of real life. Starcraft for example. Aliens dont exsist, like zerg people dont exsist. And the Matrix is Science FICTION .

TheJackal
06-11-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by neo262
I think God used September 11th as a revival of the Christian faith. God does not chastise us because we have chosen George W. Bush as President. He is a Christian, and we should be thankful because of that.

i hate to break it to you, but nobody elected Bush to be your president. He took the elections.

---

the problem is that the usa went into iraq under the flag of Weapons Of Mass Destruction. but since then it had found none. so instead the white house change the media public relations strategy to saying it was a regime change to liberate iraq.

the problem is the US media ate it up. they never questioned hard the government. If Canada or the UK did a thing like that, you'd be sure the media will hound them for the truth and clear answear.

I dont want to go over board saying that Bush sucks because I know some people respect him and I understand that. People are different, so political views are bound to be different. so dont shove your opinion into the face of those that dont desire it.


----

now for a little humour. There's a show in Canada called "This Hour Has 22 Minutes". Its basicly like the Daily Show but Canadian. Very populor. Master mind of the hit short clips "Talking to Americans".

Anyways, there's been some political turmoil here in Canada over a minister calling Bush a moron. Here's the reply from that show:

http://www.22minutes.com/realwrapper.php?target=apology_256.rm

Its a joke. pure satire. Its on purpose that it is on the edge of insult. But thats the point!!! So take this with humour. if people complain I'll remove the link and I'll say I'm sorry for ever having a sence of humour.

Lunatic Jedi
06-12-2003, 02:26 AM
I swear, if Bush gets another term, I'm just going to beat my head against the wall until I end up in a coma for the duration of his four-year reign of idiocy. I mean it. I couldn't take another four years with that simian simpleton in office.

FOR GOD'S SAKE, THE GUY ALMOST DIED CHOKING ON A PRETZEL! HOW RETARDED DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO PASS OUT WHILE CHOKING ON A PRETZEL?!

Well, I guess we can't let Curious George ( :p ) eat pretzels while watching SpongeBob anymore. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but I have to say that Bush is one of the worst presidents that our nation has ever had the misfortune of getting stuck with. Let's recap:

In a matter of three years, he's caused a terrorist incident that killed thousands of people (and I really do believe that it was his fault that it happened) and as a result, we've been dragged into two wars, both of which have had ulterior motives (oil, anyone?) and have subsequently lost the lives of hundreds American soldiers and the lives of countless civilians.

Here's a little factoid: in the war in Iraq, we killed more civilians that we did enemy soldiers. How lovely. :mad:

I just wish someone would make Bush understand that the blood of all those people, everyone killed in those wars, is on his hands. YOU HEAR ME, MONKEY-BRAIN?! YOUR HANDS! YOU KILLED THEM ALL! YOU KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE! ITS ALL YOUR FAULT BUSH! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I'm really pissed off now. I need to go calm down.

*Stomps away*

Kain
06-12-2003, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by Father Torque
Starcraft for example. Aliens dont exsist, like zerg people dont exsist. And the Matrix is Science FICTION .

Prove it. Prove aliens don't exist. Prove science fiction is fiction. Prove there is a God without following it through blind faith. YOU CAN'T!! All you have is a 2000 year old book full of contradictions and hypocracies saying there is a God. I can write a book, get a group of people to believe I am some kind of messiah and have them spread my word. Would I be a messiah? No, I'm just a jackass who told everyone I was. Am I some kind of God-son or a god's avatar? **** no, I'm a whiteboy from Toledo who just said I was. Does this make me right? In there minds I'm everything.

TheJackal
06-12-2003, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by Lunatic Jedi
I'm sorry, but I have to say that Bush is one of the worst presidents that our nation has ever had the misfortune of getting stuck with.

not really. Bill Clinton was exactly like Bush. He was as ignorant as Bush in internal policies. Ignore the cyanide level in the water, was the first president to not make the gas emition from polution law more hard on Detroit (in fact, at the rate at which things where heading, we'd be saving more than 50% the gas consumtion rate that we have right now) and the list goes one.

The difference between Bush and Clinton, is that Bill had charm and carisma. People LIKED him as a person, so he could get away with anything he wanted.

Lunatic Jedi
06-12-2003, 04:14 AM
Hey, I did say ONE of the worst. :p

The Count
06-12-2003, 05:44 AM
Actually Torque I went to bed, you didn't shut me up however, and if there is a forgiving God as you so state, then he would not condon murder of a criminal or innocent, you forget Christians believe in the sanctity of life for example when Jesus was being put to death He still asked God to forgive them not kill them, and in the garden of gethsemane he healed the soldiers wounded by Peter, in response to an eye for an eye, what about turn the other cheek didn't Jesus say that? He did so far you have wheedleed out this argument by ignoring all of my points where I have proved you wrong.


Also Jesus stated "let he without sin cast the first stone" and that was a response a woman who commited a crime.


Anyway back to the topic this is a political debate not a theological one, if you want to argue about God, go and make another thread however this is about George W. Bush and the crimes he's commited against humanity (he claims to be a Christian but he is the most un Christian person ever) and only red neck right wing pea brains such as yourself support him.

The Count
06-12-2003, 05:49 AM
Thank You Lunatic, atleast all Americans aren't like FT, God fearing right wingers, but he's only 13 so I doubt he has a clue about politics, he even justified why priests have the desire to rape little kids.


Also FT those criminals should not have been put to death, rather rehabilitated, because isn't Jesus all about REDEMPTION how he saved man kind from sin. Jesus taught to love thy neighbour and was all about redemption.

and 2 wrongs don't make a right.


If a criminal kills a girl, it is not justified in the killing of the criminal, rather to rehabilitate him.

Breton
06-12-2003, 05:56 AM
Meesa back :)

Alright, about religion: Imagine there is a person, a really kind person, who works to help the poor and suffering, and gives all her money to charity. He/she has many children, whom he/she loves very highly. He/she respects everyone, and constantly participate in making the world a better place for us all. Yet, he/she does not believe in God.

So, according to christianity, this kind and loving person is doomed to eternal torture in hell? How can you respect such a religion?


God or no God, I am no sinner just because I am logical.

Nute Gunray
06-12-2003, 06:08 AM
I read not even four whole posts in this thread before I determined that you're all imbeciles that have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None of you have any clue concerning geopolitics or religion.

FUNFACT: Jesus was a religious hardliner. He endorsed the death penalty. If Jesus/God did not see the capital punishment as a legitimate tool of the state, Jesus would have died another way. Not to mention, "live by the sword, die by the sword" is a warning. You live a violent life, you will meet a violent end.

In a matter of three years, he's caused a terrorist incident that killed thousands of people (and I really do believe that it was his fault that it happened) and as a result, we've been dragged into two wars, both of which have had ulterior motives (oil, anyone?) and have subsequently lost the lives of hundreds American soldiers and the lives of countless civilians.

Here's a little factoid: in the war in Iraq, we killed more civilians that we did enemy soldiers. How lovely.

Perhaps if you read actual information, you'd see that this is a steaming load of ****.

1) Bush didn't cause anything. Clinton failed to adequately take down bin Laden's organization several times in the late 90s, following the twin embassy bombings and the USS Cole bombing.

2) Using oil as a 'cause' of GWII is as stupid beyond all imagination. LOL BUSH IS AN OILMAN LOL This betrays all economic logic imaginable. Why would an increase in supply be a good thing for someone that's trying to make money? They want a smaller supply so the price goes up. Hooray for you not knowing simple high school economics.

3) Civilian casualties are irrelevant. Saddam should not have placed weapons near civilians. Only 3000 civilians, according to Iraqi numbers, died. In WWII, more than 5000 died A DAY. BWAAAAAA an insignificant amount of people died in the shortest and least bloody war ever waged. Maybe next time I'll pull some strings and get a city burned to the ground just to let you have something to complain about. Those 200,000 that died in a single night in Tokyo would like to have a word about "horrible civilian casualties" with you.

Thanks, and please die.

Darth Groovy
06-12-2003, 06:18 AM
I am moving this to the senate. I would highly advise that you folks dispense with the flaming of one another, or you will feel the wrath of c'jais.;)

FunClown
06-12-2003, 09:34 AM
Shut up you pumkin pied redneck, dont you ever say crap about God like that again, you sleezy snoz wanking homo. I thin keverything Neo said was pure truth and I congratulate him on that. If god hated us dont you think the world would be over by know i mean come on, If he hated us why would he give us life. And if you had any brain you would know that people like you have hateful qualities you wack. I swear people like you are worthless, you do nobody good, all you do is complain about what you want, its all you, get your head out of your but and face reality.

Father Torque, is that colonal Sanders as your avatar. He was KKK.

The Count
06-12-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by FunClown
Father Torque, is that colonal Sanders as your avatar. He was KKK.

Oh yeah I forgot to point that out lol.

The Count
06-12-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Nute Gunray
I read not even four whole posts in this thread before I determined that you're all imbeciles that have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None of you have any clue concerning geopolitics or religion.

FUNFACT: Jesus was a religious hardliner. He endorsed the death penalty. If Jesus/God did not see the capital punishment as a legitimate tool of the state, Jesus would have died another way. Not to mention, "live by the sword, die by the sword" is a warning. You live a violent life, you will meet a violent end.



Perhaps if you read actual information, you'd see that this is a steaming load of ****.

1) Bush didn't cause anything. Clinton failed to adequately take down bin Laden's organization several times in the late 90s, following the twin embassy bombings and the USS Cole bombing.

2) Using oil as a 'cause' of GWII is as stupid beyond all imagination. LOL BUSH IS AN OILMAN LOL This betrays all economic logic imaginable. Why would an increase in supply be a good thing for someone that's trying to make money? They want a smaller supply so the price goes up. Hooray for you not knowing simple high school economics.

3) Civilian casualties are irrelevant. Saddam should not have placed weapons near civilians. Only 3000 civilians, according to Iraqi numbers, died. In WWII, more than 5000 died A DAY. BWAAAAAA an insignificant amount of people died in the shortest and least bloody war ever waged. Maybe next time I'll pull some strings and get a city burned to the ground just to let you have something to complain about. Those 200,000 that died in a single night in Tokyo would like to have a word about "horrible civilian casualties" with you.

Thanks, and please die.


Actually on one said anything about Oil, I always agreed the US going into Iraq for oil was far too simplistic even for Dubya, I believe the US went to Iraq to establish a strategic power base where they could dominate the Middle East (there is Geopolitics for you)

No one said Bush caused September the 11th, I'm saying he was the catalyst with his arrogant foreign policy, it's not Clinton's fault that Sep 11th happened (can he see into the future) he was alot more positive about a peace policy to the Middle East than Dubya's hey lets invade them all, it was a result of Dubya sticking to the view the American way is the right way no question about it that got them, before he came President he hardly left American waters either, THATS Experience for you!

If he was President during the Cuban Missile Crisis well I dread to think what would happen to us all.

ShockV1.89
06-12-2003, 12:49 PM
Actually on one said anything about Oil, I always agreed the US going into Iraq for oil was far too simplistic even for Dubya, I believe the US went to Iraq to establish a strategic power base where they could dominate the Middle East (there is Geopolitics for you)

Honestly, I dont see a problem with this. I would prefer it be done in a less violent way than was done, but I still would want America or the EU in control of the Middle East. I say this because the Middle Easterners dont seem to be able behave themselves, always blowing each other up or starting "holy wars" or whatnot. Call it my "simple American" viewpoint, if you will, but that's what I see.

That area is of too much importance to the entire world to allow people who cant stop strapping on TNT vests to control it.

The Count
06-12-2003, 01:23 PM
Thing is, if the good ol' U S of A didn't have such an arrogant stuborn foreign policy these TNT nuts wouldn't be round.

TheJackal
06-12-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
Thing is, if the good ol' U S of A didn't have such an arrogant stuborn foreign policy these TNT nuts wouldn't be round.


it a way that is true. Not because of Bush or because of Clinton. But because a whole line of Presidents who gave weapons and money away to favor the American in economic way and in political ways (to undermine the Soviets mostly).

Guatamela is a great example. A nation with a President who was corrupted and murdered a lot of his civilians (sounds like Hussein no?). There was a revolt. The citizens took back what was thiers and formed a Communist government. It was one of the first non corrupted Communist government to take place. They recieve praise worldwide for helping a great deal the health and education of its population. Child mortality was in an all time low in decades.

But since they were Communist, the USA felt threatned to have a Communist country even closer to the USA fearing it would be the best staging point for a missile strike (does Cuba ring a bell?)

So they hired and trained the old guards of the de-throned President to cause a civil war in that country. Civil war STILL rages on today as it is. The government has fallen. anarchy.

Its not the President himself but the line of Presidents that caused the problems. Some of them involved themselves in terrible ways. I'm sure someone could give you the facts shown in Bowling For Columbine (i dont have them with me)

So its not the complete government and the nation as a whole. The problem is the string of government who fear change and gain control through fear.

on a side note: here's an interresting site you should take a look at: http://www.unbrandamerica.org/

neo262
06-12-2003, 06:47 PM
Dang! I thought this was put to a stop yesterday!

Father Torque
06-12-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Breton
Meesa back :)

Alright, about religion: Imagine there is a person, a really kind person, who works to help the poor and suffering, and gives all her money to charity. He/she has many children, whom he/she loves very highly. He/she respects everyone, and constantly participate in making the world a better place for us all. Yet, he/she does not believe in God.

So, according to christianity, this kind and loving person is doomed to eternal torture in hell? How can you respect such a religion?


God or no God, I am no sinner just because I am logical.

I never said that, people will go to heaven but it doesnt matter how nice they are, they could donate all of there money but not believing god is basically hating or rejecting him, which states in the bible that the person should be put to death but not go to hell.

And DT, what about the man in your avatar lets talk about him for a while, o woops cant sorry youre banned, Maybe next time you should about making a thread about people being in the KKK, you jerk. Never ever say that to anyone again. And you say I have no clue beacuse im 13, well what kind of immature person says crap like that about people they met on the internet.

I hope I never hear that from anyone again. And Clown Boy if you wanna talk crap about Colonel Sanders go cry to your mom and tell her that a guy had a picture of Colonel Sanders because colonel sanders created KFC which the guy on the forum. And perhaps next time think before you post because you get people like DT hiped up and banned. I am not even having fun debating anymore, im tired of people telling me my religion is wrong, and making threads that are like do you think FT is in the KKK:mad:

SkinWalker
06-13-2003, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by Nute Gunray
FUNFACT: Jesus was a religious hardliner.

By all intellectual standards, Jesus was a myth. At most he was the illegitimate child of some unknown father that his mother and adoptive father chose to perpetuate an old prophecy in order to avoid bannishment/ridicule/etc.

Originally posted by Nute Gunray
1) Bush didn't cause anything. Clinton failed to adequately take down bin Laden's organization several times in the late 90s, following the twin embassy bombings and the USS Cole bombing.

Bin Laden's organization is still in existance and still very much a threat. Clinton and Bush have that much in common.

Originally posted by Nute Gunray
2) Using oil as a 'cause' of GWII is as stupid beyond all imagination. LOL BUSH IS AN OILMAN LOL This betrays all economic logic imaginable. Why would an increase in supply be a good thing for someone that's trying to make money? They want a smaller supply so the price goes up. Hooray for you not knowing simple high school economics.

There is/was serious consideration among OPEC nations to move towards the Euro from the Dollar as the base currency for oil. This would have interesting economic reprecutions, particularly in the U.S. Also, the Iraqi oil production and industry is next to nil after a decade of sanctions and poor maintenance. Care to guess what companies are getting contracts to rebuild and do new explorations? I could say, "Hooray for you for not knowing simple college economics," but you may not have finished high school as yet. So I won't.

Originally posted by Nute Gunray
3) Civilian casualties are irrelevant.

Not if you are a civilian casualty. How many deaths is acceptable to free a nation? Who gets to choose the number?

Originally posted by Nute Gunray
Thanks, and please die.

That kind of comment doesn't fit with the normal discussion of the Senate....

SkinWalker
06-13-2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Father Torque
And DT, what about the man in your avatar lets talk about him for a while, o woops cant sorry youre banned, Maybe next time you should about making a thread about people being in the KKK, you jerk.

I don't think I've ever intereacted with either of you, but you both presented an immature position. This gem of a thread has been graciously deposited in the Senate, where we don't talk that way to each other (err... not very often anyway).

* post reported

Please attack the argument, not the person if you choose to continue here.

Sorry for playing mod, Jais... it just bothered me... the con is yours again :p

Breton
06-13-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Father Torque
I never said that, people will go to heaven but it doesnt matter how nice they are, they could donate all of there money but not believing god is basically hating or rejecting him, which states in the bible that the person should be put to death but not go to hell.


To not believe in God is neither to hate or reject him, simply because you can't hate or reject something you have no reason to believe excists. And I am pretty sure it states in the Bible that everyone who does not believe in God shall go to hell.

The real question is: Why do you believe there is a God? There is nothing but an old book that indicates he excists, and we can all agree that the book is written by humans, and is so pretty much fiction.

And another question: Why do you believe your religion is right? What about Islam, Hinduism and the like? What makes these religions less true than christianity?

Thrackan Solo
06-13-2003, 12:09 PM
And what makes you feel that there isnt a God? :confused:

ShockV1.89
06-13-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Darth Tyranus
Thing is, if the good ol' U S of A didn't have such an arrogant stuborn foreign policy these TNT nuts wouldn't be round.

Yes they would. Believe it or not, the european nations were the first ones to get their hands dirty in the Middle East. Britain was key in the formation and rise to power of Israel.

But you wont hear that, being that you are so intensley anti-american and wish only to bash us, ignoring that perhaps other countries are guilty of the same crimes...

Kain
06-13-2003, 03:16 PM
I can't speak for non-believers other than myself. But my disbelief stems from 2 things
1. I've yet to see any proof of a kind and caring God
2. The fact that there is some omnipotent being is sure lunacy in my book.

Breton
06-13-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
And what makes you feel that there isnt a God? :confused:

And what makes you feel that the universe wasn't created by an ostrich named Ted?

Do you get my point? The burden of proof is on your side, not mine. It isn't possible to disprove that there is a God, just as it isn't possible to disprove that it was created by an ostrich named Ted.

El Sitherino
06-14-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Breton
And what makes you feel that the universe wasn't created by an ostrich named Ted?

Do you get my point? The burden of proof is on your side, not mine. It isn't possible to disprove that there is a God, just as it isn't possible to disprove that it was created by an ostrich named Ted. ostrich? ted? how do you know about ted!?!!;)
very well put breton.

also, neo... what do you mean?

El Sitherino
06-14-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Yes they would. Believe it or not, the european nations were the first ones to get their hands dirty in the Middle East. Britain was key in the formation and rise to power of Israel.

But you wont hear that, being that you are so intensley anti-american and wish only to bash us, ignoring that perhaps other countries are guilty of the same crimes... actually it was america that first rejected the european jews.:)

ShockV1.89
06-14-2003, 12:54 PM
Yes, but it was only trying to keep out of the European conflict. It didnt wish to anger Hitler and make yet another enemy, and allowing the Jews to take refuge there would have added America to the long list of countries that Hitler wanted to take (which it was probably on anyway...).

I really don't think that makes them involved with Israel before Britain. And they had virtually no presence in the Middle East until after WW2. That was all Europe.

El Sitherino
06-14-2003, 04:13 PM
dude they fronted the idea of giving a peice of land for the jews. and america hated jews just as much as hitler did but they didn't decide to kill them in massive camps.

ShockV1.89
06-14-2003, 04:23 PM
dude they fronted the idea of giving a peice of land for the jews.

I have somewhere the name of the Zionist who originally proposed the idea. But before I go digging through last years notes on the Middle East (took a 400 level course in it), I'd like to hear your proof on that. Find me something that says that America was the first to propose the idea that created Israel.

Malcontent
06-14-2003, 04:26 PM
Oh yeah I almost forgot about how us Americans are jew-haters. I was too busy thinking about how better we could bomb hospitals and schools in iraq that I completely forgot about our un-dying hatred of the jews.

For a country that seems to be no better than the nazis as many claim, its amazing how people of every race and religion risk their lives to come and live here.

Interesting . . .

SkinWalker
06-15-2003, 04:58 PM
Personally, I'd like to see Cjais get in here and delete all the nonesense posts that are off-topic, but knowing his sensibilities about censure, I doubt he would be interested.

A pity really, because this is a topic that should warrant serious discussion.

In fact, this is the problem with the current American regime: "you're with us or against us." That false dichotomy was issued by Pres. Bush himself.

The fact appears to be that our current regime lied to the American people when they claimed that Hussein had purchased significant quantities of enriched Uranium from Africa.
The claim was even made by our State Dept. that "Saddam Hussein could build a nuclear bomb within months if he were able to obtain fissile material."

It was stated that there was "evidence" that could not be disclosed to the UN Security Council because it might endanger intelligence assets on the ground in Iraq.

It was also stated that WMDs could be deployed within 45 min.
Another point in fact is that no evidence of WMDs (chemical, nuclear, or biological) has been discovered. One would think that if such weapons existed, they would not have been hidden so thoroughly as to not be available. One would also think that, given the current situation of survival of the fittest in Iraq, someone would come forth with a location in hopes of some sort of reward.

Moreover, if WMDs (particularly the nuclear question) were a genuine priority, why did the coalition forces not move to secure the nuclear sites that are now in the news for being looted of their metal drums?

Some say it is un-American to speak out. Some say one supports terrorism because one questions the methods of one's government. I say just the opposite is true. The Founding Fathers wished the power to be in the hands of the people and the lips of Americans, not in the egos or purses of the ruling elite. If authority is never questioned, blind servitude is the only recourse.

C'jais
06-15-2003, 07:12 PM
Ok folks, enough of the off topic discussion here - if you wanna debate God or Zionist movements, there are plenty of threads to indulge yourself in.

As for Bush "lying" about the reasons for going to war, it's actually a very serious issue. At worst, he's been leading a nation into war based on lies - and could be impeached as a consequence (which, no doubt, some folks are trying to work out right now).

ShockV1.89
06-15-2003, 08:48 PM
It's my opinion that if it's discovered that Bush knew there were no WMDs and led the country into war saying that there were... then he should be tried for war crimes.

Deceiving the very people who elected you... I dont like it... I dont like being lied to.

El Sitherino
06-16-2003, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
It's my opinion that if it's discovered that Bush knew there were no WMDs and led the country into war saying that there were... then he should be tried for war crimes.

Deceiving the very people who elected you... I dont like it... I dont like being lied to. i severly doubt we will see bush tried for war crimes even when extreme proof is found. jais i believe made a good post on why he/i beleive that.

TheJackal
06-16-2003, 01:50 AM
i through the idea around with my activist friends.


If George Bush gives himself the right to go into a nation to remove a leader without the authority of the UN. Why not pass the idea to the UN to remove Bush as leader of the USA.

Lets make, for once, the US the victim of all the removal and obstruction of an international country's government and leaders.

I know you could swing this in different dirrections thought so this idea is flawed but think about it.

Bush denied the creation of the International Justice Court which would make it possible to stop and apprehand (sp?) people like Saddam Hussein and trail them as international criminels and crimes against humanity. The reason why Bush didn't want this higher order of international law is that it would probebly slow down a whole lot of the US led globalization movement (which is basicly corporates avoiding taxes by going into foreing countries to create factories without unions and under pay its workers and thus terminating the expansive costs of US workers and the unions but that's a whole other debate)



------


I would also like to add this. Someone earlier said that High School economics about Oil in Iraq and how it is stupid by getting more oil in Iraq which would only add to the current supply thus creating nothing.

WRONG!

By going into a foreing country and pump it dry of its natural resources costs a lot less to pump the natural resources of America (like the oil fields in Alaska)

By going into a country with a week monetary system you can produce more for less money. Then the oil companies will sell off the cheap oil to the market US dollar price. Creating a HUGE profit.

Now THAT is global economics. "High School economics" is just counting your change when you buy chips at your corner store.

Father Torque
06-18-2003, 09:52 PM
I would just like to point out a little George Bush fact. Since he became president in 2000. Gun control cases have been put to a minimal level. Also have you seen the seen the reduction of smoking in the US. The rates are at a substantially low level. Which inturn is good for most of you who didnt know that:p . Also what kind of lies are talking about here guys. Maybe you havent realized but the key to politics is basically to lie your way through. Im not saying its good to lie on matters such as war. But its politics thats the way the world works. I bet you every single American President have lied about issues (Besides honest Abe of course:)). Even youn peoples running for school elections lie to get voted for. Examples such as I will help the school this, or I can assure you this will happen. Its just a bunch a bunch of hooo haw, that people say to become popular. Now Irealie GWB lied on some stuff, which really doesnt make me super angry, but I feel that people have the right to know the truth. Although I dont agree with the lying part of the war. Im very happy about about why the war is happening. Because I have a bunch of friends from Iraq, whose family members were killed,tortured, or badly hurt by Sadams organization. And I think that getting rid of him was a smart choice:)

TheJackal
06-19-2003, 12:06 AM
if you expect your government to LIE to you and simply wave it off as politics then I shall avoid your country for ever for fear it will implode.

I hope not every Americans think this way. Politics = lies = too be expected = the way things allways have been.

That's sad.

Father Torque
06-19-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by TheJackal
if you expect your government to LIE to you and simply wave it off as politics then I shall avoid your country for ever for fear it will implode.

I hope not every Americans think this way. Politics = lies = too be expected = the way things allways have been.

That's sad.

Let me ask you a simple question Jackal, have you ever lied. You make it sound like where you are from (Canada), that there is no lying there. Sounds like a great place, if it were true. Has the Canadian Government ever lied before, or are they perfect? Im not saing this to bash Canada, because its truly a beautiful place,but every country and its leaders lie:) . Atleast to my knowledge

Captain Wilson
06-19-2003, 09:15 PM
ahhh yes we do lie, but how many of those lies take a human life?

The only war's that have been started on lies are those by power mad dictotor's eg. Hitler. Hitler blamed the jewish people for germanys slump, which was completly untrue. This led to germany rebuilding its navy, army and suchforth as hitler provided provided jobs that Jews had held before. These jobs had been obsalte after 1918, but hitler claimed that jews had these jods and were taking the germans money. Because of the army, navy being built germany could invade many a country and cause WWII. Many german soilder died beacause if the did not follow hitler the died. Also the Holocost were millons of Jews were slaugtered for being jews.

Now my rambling has gone on far to long, but i hope you see what i am saying.

SkinWalker
06-19-2003, 09:19 PM
If we accept that polititians lie to their constituents, where do we draw the line? How many lies is too many? Are "white" lies okay?

If we simply say, "it's in the nature of a polititian to lie, so therefore we shouldn't worry about it," aren't we saying that Nixon was unjustifiably accused? Aren't we saying that the impeachment hearing of Clinton was inappropriate?

I, personally, am fed up with lying polititians. It's one thing to make a campaign promise that is naive or based upon ignorant understanding of the issue, such as new taxes, etc. It's another thing entirely to fabricate (or allow the acceptance of) documents to justify a war. It's another thing entirely to tell the public that a war is necessary because of WMDs when their is no hard evidence to support that.

FunClown
06-20-2003, 01:27 AM
1) I can't see how The Jackal makes out Canadians don't lie :confused:

2) Politicians do lie.

3) Doesn't mean we have to accept it as reasonable.

4) I'm therefore not voting for the party who is in government at the moment in Australia in the next election because of all the lies we've been told. It makes you feel so used and stupid. Almost like they have contempt for you and anyone else who doesn't see things [believe] their point of view [through their lies].

C'jais
06-20-2003, 11:37 AM
Torque, politicians make "promises" they cannot keep during elections. That's not illegal. The smart folks know that the simple folk wants to be promised things that aren't realistic. The smart folks know that this isn't lying, as the politicians aren't in charge of anything yet. They know that any fool can promise paradise, and vote accordingly - realistically.

Now, once a politician is in power, he has assumed responsibility. That means he can't lie, make up "data" or trick a population of 3 billion into war with another country. Bush has said numerous times that Iraq "had weapons of mass destruction". They even had a nuclear weapons program, according to him. The government supported terrorist factions, as well.

It's very, very serious. In my country, some people are currently calling for an investigation on our lying PM who supported your president.

The Count
06-20-2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Father Torque

And DT, what about the man in your avatar lets talk about him for a while, o woops cant sorry youre banned, Maybe next time you should about making a thread about people being in the KKK, you jerk. Never ever say that to anyone again. And you say I have no clue beacuse im 13, well what kind of immature person says crap like that about people they met on the internet.

I hope I never hear that from anyone again. And Clown Boy if you wanna talk crap about Colonel Sanders go cry to your mom and tell her that a guy had a picture of Colonel Sanders because colonel sanders created KFC which the guy on the forum. And perhaps next time think before you post because you get people like DT hiped up and banned. I am not even having fun debating anymore, im tired of people telling me my religion is wrong, and making threads that are like do you think FT is in the KKK:mad:

Maybe that thread was abit extreme or nasty and I appologise for that however I would not like you to debate on my threads anymore, you are far too single minded and offensive and therefore unsuitable to participate for my debates, so please unless you are able to accept alternative points of view and RESPECT them please do not post here, thats all you will hear from me on the matter.

Also do something about your spelling and grammer; its atrocious.

Anyway back to topic Bush is getting funding by big rich capitalist Financers, I wonder why *cough* he's their tool *cough*

TheJackal
06-20-2003, 09:46 PM
I didn't say Canada is a land where lies dont exists.

Its just normal procedure for the media and the public to backlash and critisize the government/politician that lies to us.

The way Father Torque said its normal for politicians to lie and its to be expected. Thats what i was talking about.

Political promisses and etc happen all the time. They do it to win elections. I'm just happy my governement didn't make a habit to covering the truth and lying. I'm sure there is something that we should be aware of that hasnt been told. Thats normal. Its the downfall on having a media system that only covers murders and car chases and repetitive loops of videos of horific thing. Media tends to ignore things that they judge wouldnt keep the audience's (read nation) attention. They think they need a plot line for everything and keep the suspence high just like a damn TV show.


----------------

Back to Bush. Darth Tyranus mentiond corporate funding for government. The Prime Minister of Canada, Jean Chrétien, is trying to pass a law which would prohibit private corporates companies to donate money for any kind of to a political party. only personnal donations from the population is acceptable. I am 100% behind this idea. Why? Say the Big Tobaco industries decides to donate a big fat check to a man running for President in the States. Presient X will be very happy of the generous donation from the rich corporation, thus will most likely end up scrathing his back. Favors for money.

Its called buying votes and favors.

Like the government has no affairs in the beds of the nation (look at Texas), i think corporates should have no affair in running the government.

on a side note: In Canada same sex mariage is now legal. A great step in my opinion.

TheHobGoblin
07-02-2003, 02:22 AM
I don't like it that people say U.S wants to make a base or whatever to take over Iraq. 1 that be stupid (the U.S is not a idiot country, they just don't like one person so to them everyone is dumb really childesh) 2 It will put America in a bad position making other major countries not too pleased. 3 Our mission has nothing to do at all in any way with oil. It's liberation of Iraq. Bush had very good reasons for war. I know Iraq was sheltering Terrorist. Bush had to attemp to mess up Terroist operations badly. I don't like calling Bush nuts or something. He has reasons to do the actions he has done also the rights. Hitler was just a nutball to begin with.

SkinWalker
07-02-2003, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
I don't like it that people say U.S wants to make a base or whatever to take over Iraq. 1 that be stupid (the U.S is not a idiot country, they just don't like one person so to them everyone is dumb really childesh)

It would be very prudent. A base of operations or, at the very least, a significant interest, in Iraq would be very beneficial to the United States, which has been attempting such a thing for over 50 years. Our closest ally in the region, Saudi Arabia, has been very naughty of late....

Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
2 It will put America in a bad position making other major countries not too pleased.

You got that right... part of the reason why we are hated in the Middle East.

Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
3 Our mission has nothing to do at all in any way with oil. It's liberation of Iraq.

It has everything to do with oil and to say otherwise by the Bush Admin is offensive in that it is assumed that the rest of the world is blind. Iraq has one of the largest oil fields (based on old exploration data) in the world. New exploration technology, if implemented, could show it to be the largest, particularly if new extraction methods (such as what are being used in some of the fields in Texas, California, etc. that were once thought depleted) are utilized.

Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
Bush had very good reasons for war.

If you call prestige, oil, and tyrranical power good reasons. Bush is quite possibly one of the most dangerous Presidents we've ever had.

Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
I know Iraq was sheltering Terrorist.

No you don't. You want to know Iraq was sheltering terrorists... so do I. But the evidence doesn't bear this out. It never did.

Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
Bush had to attemp to mess up Terroist operations badly.

The so-called 'war on terrorism' is going very badly. Our voluteer military has lost more people in the aftermath of the "war" than during it. Untold thousands of civilians in Iraq lost their lives. We went in there with absolutely no plan for reconstruction. FDR had a very detailed plan, 22 pages long, outlining reconstruction of Germany. This is a precedent that should have been followed. Yet we blunder through it.

Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
I don't like calling Bush nuts or something. He has reasons to do the actions he has done also the rights.

Blind faith in a leader doesn't make him a good leader.

Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
Hitler was just a nutball to begin with.

But we have to remember, Hitler was an immensely popular figure in his country through the 1930's. As a leader, the German people looked up to him, trusted him, and expected that he would not lead them inappropriately. I've seen many people compare Saddam to Hitler in this forum.... but an equally apt comparison might lie closer to home.

Jah Warrior
07-02-2003, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker

Blind faith in a leader doesn't make him a good leader.

But we have to remember, Hitler was an immensely popular figure in his country through the 1930's. As a leader, the German people looked up to him, trusted him, and expected that he would not lead them inappropriately. I've seen many people compare Saddam to Hitler in this forum.... but an equally apt comparison might lie closer to home.

Couldnt say it better myself.

besides bush can't even pronounce "Nuclear" correctly, what makes everyone think he is smart enough to have his finger on the trigger?

Nucular weapons LMFAO simpleton.

The only other person that regularly calls Nuclear weapons "nucular weapons" is Homer Simpson. NUFF SAID!

Seriously bush is a far scarier prospect than Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden rolled into one. He's utterly neglected the economy during his reign and all it will take is one more large scale terrorist strike to send the u.s. into an economic quagmire that only a democratic government will be able to fix. Its a shame because the knock on effect will cause job losses and chaos at a global level.

Impeach the monkey-faced gimp!

TheHobGoblin
07-02-2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
Couldnt say it better myself.

besides bush can't even pronounce "Nuclear" correctly, what makes everyone think he is smart enough to have his finger on the trigger?

Nucular weapons LMFAO simpleton.

The only other person that regularly calls Nuclear weapons "nucular weapons" is Homer Simpson. NUFF SAID!


This isn't about how he can't pronounce things, stay on topic Enough said.

If you call prestige, oil, and tyrranical power good reasons. Bush is quite possibly one of the most dangerous Presidents we've ever had.

Well sorry for not stating the reasons. Yet these people have rights strip from them, dignity and other very important gifts. We got the chance to let these people have those gifts. The oil is just a stupid thing people want to use to make Bush look like a power hunger person. Well just to let you know some people have some compasion in them.

The so-called 'war on terrorism' is going very badly. Our voluteer military has lost more people in the aftermath of the "war" than during it. Untold thousands of civilians in Iraq lost their lives. We went in there with absolutely no plan for reconstruction. FDR had a very detailed plan, 22 pages long, outlining reconstruction of Germany. This is a precedent that should have been followed. Yet we blunder through it.

Going badly I'm not going to argue this one again. Everyone knows whats wrong with this saying.

TheJackal
07-02-2003, 09:40 PM
Okay. Bush has taken a lot of things away from the United States and stop avoiding it.

Bush is ignoring the failing economie and the crumbling education system. Instead in spending on social programs (as houses for poor, wellfare, education, health and safety, etc) he spends on mini-nukes and the StarWars defense shield.

I do agree with TheHobGoblin however on the speech issue. The PrimeMinister of Canada has a small speach problem too. He has a muscles on the side of his mouth that doesn't work like it used to. I dont know the details but when you see videos of him of his earlier years its obvious it wasnt there. Anyways... he has trouble speaking in both French and English (both the official language of Canada). Sure comedians make fun of him for it, its how people identify him in comedic sketches, but it does not make him stupid.

As for the War on Terrorism comment: <sarcasmt> let's just hope it goes as great as the War on Drugs did. Because of that war, no drugs circulate in the streets of the states</end sarcasm>:rolleyes:

SkinWalker
07-03-2003, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
This isn't about how he can't pronounce things, stay on topic Enough said.

Strictly speaking, the topic is "George W. Bush," so any aspect about the man is "on topic," including his speech deficiancies (assuming that they exist).


Originally posted by TheHobGoblin
Yet these people have rights strip from them, dignity and other very important gifts.

I won't dispute that. I also will not dispute that Saddam was a bad person. I do, however, hold issue to the fact that this war was about human rights. The United States has quite literally demonstrated its callous disregard for human rights on many occasions, most notably and uncontroversially, the Nicaraguan civil war of the 1980's.

Uncontroversial because Nicaragua responded to the U.S. backed, funded, and assisted aggression by going through the proper channels, namely the U.N. Security council and the U.N. General Assembly. Nicaragua, wisely, chose this route rather than violence toward American interests. The U.N. voted twice to impose hefty monetary penalties on the U.S. and instructed the United States to cease terrorist activities in Nicaragua. We refused all instructions. Thousands of innocent civilians lost their lives.

We created the monster we consider Saddam Hussein and gave him the ability to kill his people in mass numbers via chemicals, chemical production equipment, education of personnel, weapons, etc. We supported him through much of the worst acts of terror he inflicted upon his people. Up until he took Kuwait.

The Kuwait question really was his big mistake. We ensured that he would not back down by creating a situation on the world stage where we had to go in an squash him. The real danger was that he would pull out of Kuwait before we got troops in the area and leave behind a puppet government that would answer to the Iraqi beckon-call.

Nothing about Middle East politics is as it seems on the surface. The underlying commonalities with it all is oil. That might seem to simple, but it really isn't simple at all. Think about the effect that the OPEC embargo had upon western economy back in the 1970's... I can recall the stigma even though I was young. EVERY thing about consumer goods was dependent upon petroleum... plastics, packaging, fuel, lubrication for machinery in manufacturing, and many, many other aspects.

The "rebuilding" of Iraq already involves several major American petroleum industry corporations, including Haliburton Oil and one or more of it's subsidiaries. The Iraqi oil fields may turn out to be the largest in the world and its extraction industry is a shambles: old equipment, poorly maintained pumping apparatuses, broken/incomplete/non-existant pipelines, and refinary capabilities that are non-existant by modern standards.

The money is to be had from more than a few billion barrels, I assure you.

SkinWalker
07-03-2003, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
Impeach the monkey-faced gimp!

I thought this to be a relevant link.... Considering the "joker's wild" in this administration's case.

http://tvnewslies.org/assets/images/db_images/db_Joker2.jpg

SkinWalker
07-03-2003, 03:21 AM
I'm not discounting the validity of some of the points that the right makes, I'm only trying to ensure that the other side is shown:

Threatening to nuke people:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/12/11/bush.weapons.security/index.html

Attacking sovereign nations:
http://www.ccmep.org/us_bombing_watch.html
http://americanpeace.eccmei.net/

Using chemical/biological weapons against its own people:
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2002/t10092002_t1009ha.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/TET210A.html
http://english.pravda.ru/world/2002/10/10/37987.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,65162,00.html

Killing its own citizens:
http://www.aclu.org/action/dpinnocence107.html
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innoc.html

Killing other civilians:
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/2/7/30418
http://www.web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/index/EUR700691999
http://www.cursor.org/stories/civpertons.htm
http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm
http://www.cursor.org/stories/appendix5.htm
http://www.cursor.org/stories/casualty_count.htm
http://www.cursor.org/stories/ontarget.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/suren1.html]Counterpunch
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,622000,00.html
http://www.sfbg.com/News/36/12/ogwar.html
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=12525
http://www.counterpunch.org/blumcasualties.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/15/international/asia/15BOMB.html
http://monkeyfist.com/articles/800/
http://www.fair.org/activism/afghanistan-casualties.html
http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/1210-01.htm

Starts wars for profit, not peace:
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5883827%255E421,00.html
http://www.mike-warren.com/links/iraq-oil-war.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/mckinney0922.html
http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/1publications-briefings-Iraq.htm
http://www.msnbc.com/news/819220.asp
http://www.msnbc.com/news/824407.asp?0cb=-315114700
http://www.presentdanger.org/pdf/gac/0209oil.pdf
http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,825105,00.html
http://www.thedebate.org/thedebate/iraq.asp

Now, who is the "terror" in this supposed war?

Jah Warrior
07-03-2003, 10:05 AM
good god, thats a shed load of links!!!!

Strictly speaking, the topic is "George W. Bush," so any aspect about the man is "on topic," including his speech deficiancies (assuming that they exist).

thanks skin :)


In the UK making fun of our leaders is nigh on compulsory, in fact those that don't question their leaders are thought to be weird. Its amazing that people spring to george bush's defence even though its clear that he's a reallyt nasty piece of work. its a great example of brainwashing and extreme blinkeredness. "NUFF said"

The Count
07-03-2003, 03:21 PM
Damn my anti Bush views aren't dead yet, hmmm better get posting.

TheJackal
07-03-2003, 04:07 PM
Here's a quote you might find interresting. Its from Stalin, the enemy of every American President, said this once and its erie how it still reflects today (read: florida)

Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.
-Josef Stalin

The Count
07-04-2003, 12:03 PM
It is erie how it reflects today.

El Sitherino
07-04-2003, 12:50 PM
though i dislike him as an active person stalin was a briliant man.

now. anyone not willing to criticize anything in the slightest is a fool. criticism is neccesary for things to become better. windows messes up on things you tell them, they make it better. you tell your boss some criticism he/she "might" do better. but if a majority tells the boss, they will have no choice but to do better because they aren't going to fire a lot.
hope this helps a little in the example department.:)

bush as a normal man is very nice, I have had the privilege of eating a rib sandwich with him before he even became texas' governor. but as a national politician he's not so good. he did ok as governor but not that great.

i myself have some speech disorders. i have a hard time speakin in public. i slur a little, i have a dyslexic speech disorder. so i can grant him that. but as a public speaker he does need to see a speech therapist. it is important that leaders speak well so that their point is getting across perfectly as they want it to.

PolarWind
07-09-2003, 05:08 PM
I'll vote for GW to be reelected in 2004.