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Rockstar
06-14-2003, 04:35 AM
does anyone hear really hate the lunge?? before you guess im not one of the people who get killed constantly by it, coz it is quite easy to counter... but does anyone get tired of it. i love the duels where its people using combinations of all the primary strikes, with no sabre throwing or lunges. i mainly think the lunge just looks so dumb....

i didn't like it much in sp, coz i passed it on jedi knight 1st time through and found whenever i died (without using force speed, which i never use coz it takes all the fun away...) it was from that cheezy looking uppercut lunge....

anyone else agree with me

i think it should be replaced (if not removed) with a hop foward horizontal slash (like how obiwan kills darth maul, except on the ground...like the jedi lunges foward and swings his sabre across his body....... well ... . u get the idea lol) because that would look the hell of alot cooler and less cheezy, and would be a neat addition even if the lunge wasn't removed

ILR
06-14-2003, 11:40 AM
I both hate and love the lunge. I hate it because it's an extremely retarded move. Also the fact that if spammed enough, the lunge just may be the ultimate strategy to victory. Also the amount of damage it does is such a great contrast to the blue style, it kind of stuck out.

I love the lunge because it's so easy to counter. After playing so long you develope a sixth sense about when people are about to use it. It's usually after they back way off and then direactly face you, and then run right at you with some strafing left or right. Some people put lunges in combos, so it's less obvious that it's coming. But when you see the combo once, you know the combo the next time he does it.

A surprising thing about the lunge: It actually took people who did the lunge a long time to figure out they can kick someone attacking from the side. I started playing JKII at 1.02, and I was never once kicked from a side counter to a lunge until halfway into 1.04's life. This was frusterating for a while, since n00bs would now spam the attack endlessly. But I've found that a more conservative counter attack deters side kicking. I do a really short jump slash at my blade's farthest range. It's worked so far.

So I see the lunge as the paint chips on the wall, and JKII's community is munching on the yummy candy, even though it's making alot of the players retarded.

Sam Fisher
06-14-2003, 12:29 PM
Yes, I agree, I both love and hate the lunge, but I use it most of the time.

Luc Solar
06-14-2003, 02:04 PM
It looks stupid and is quite unrealistic but...no, I don't hate it. :)

I'm not hoping to see it in JA, though. I want less SuperMegaSpecialDynamite moves (that are spammed to no end) and more basic deadly swings and cool combos.

shock ~ unnamed
06-14-2003, 03:17 PM
I love it.

In ff dueling most people used to flail around in heavy to counter drain whoring.

It was both risky (you got kicked a lot) and ineffective.

A guy from our old clan (SF-Phoenix) was one of the first people to play ff duels light stance only and when you tried to drain him he would whore the hell out of you with those lunges.

Very effective to say the least, it's pretty much become the norm in ff dueling to counter draining anymore.

Wanderer
06-14-2003, 09:09 PM
I like this faststyle move. It's easy to learn and very effective :D

Rockstar
06-15-2003, 03:30 AM
the reason its so gay is that it is unblockable when up close, i think it should just stagger you back........ i think it should only be unblockable in fast stance at close range.

its just crap that the most unfair move is associated with the fasted sabre style

tho it is good how it owns drain, but thats fair coz when using drain the darky puts his guard down. i think its SOOO dumb that when just blocking at close range, the lunge cannot be stopped...

Rad Blackrose
06-15-2003, 02:38 PM
Hello, the lunge is supposed to break your defensive stance! It's a thrust move.

Lightsabers are more accustomed to slashing styles then they are piercing/thrusting. Where it is easier to block something that is coming to the side of you or above you (for example, a horizontal slash, it's a matter of who is putting power into their offense or defense), thrusting/piercing on the other hand, requires more then just blocking to counteract, more often then nought it's manueverability. I mean, take a look at the JKII blocking animations. There is no way in hell those animations would be sufficient enough to take care of a piercing style of attack.

Personally, I believe more piercing/thrust style moves should be in Jedi Academy, perhaps restricting them to a "fencer" line of style.

The only thing I hate about it is how people completely blow the element of surprise when it comes to using the move.

Semicolon
06-16-2003, 05:26 AM
The lunge is my favorite move, although I've seen some people really abuse it, I try to play using the RED DFA the Yellow Butterfly and the Blue lunge together.

Rockstar
06-16-2003, 07:02 AM
well then it should be a stab or thrust, not a stupid uppercut

that uppercut could easily be blocked by sweeping the sabre to the side with your own

its just they didn't make that animation. i think that the lunge should stagger you back but not kill you at close range

jedi's have the ability to read the future and predict the moves of other jedi, however they can cloud each others thoughts, but they would easily beable to predict a dodgy move like that :(

i think that the lunge should only be unblockable if the jedi is has defensively blocked a series of light attacks, rather than being able to just run up and kill in one shot
and i think that if the jedi misses or has the lunge blocked his guard should be exposed (which is the REALITY of why people don't use stabing moves with edged weapons! they leave you open for death if you miss)

when lucas arts were making the game and decided to put in a winning move, they should have made something more loyal to the movies' combat or atleast something less crap. as they probably knew it'd get spammed endlessly

Stormtrooper X
06-17-2003, 06:01 PM
I don't use lunge and I never battle people who use it, so I'm okay!:)

ILR
06-17-2003, 10:53 PM
Lightsabering is a pretty damn difficult thing to make into a game. So right off I'll say that nothing I've seen in JKII dueling is remotely close to saber duels. It's far too frantic, and miniturized.

That said, the game that Raven ended up with is some kind of combat game that resembles Star Wars. The lunge (in this generic combat game that resembles Star Wars) is an added variable to keep the combat from being linear. When I say linear, I mean "everyone-pretty-much-does-the-same-thing-with-little-variation-on-style-or-skill."

All of the special moves stick out like that. There's bad contrast between normal moves and special moves due to the blockability of normal vs. special. With a lightsaber.. that makes no sense.. and everyone should complain. But we must remember that this is only a generic combat game that slightly resembles Star Wars.

If you think of it that way all of those "cheap ass" strategies that you dont see in SW movies become a silly thing to complain about. I find myself kicking now... I haven't quite integrated it into my strategy, I dont want to rely on it... but it's helped deal with spammers.

So the lunge is fine I guess... It's extremely easy to avoid if you make yourself into a well rounded player. It's only there to punish spammers who rely on other cheap moves for easy success. And the same goes for the lunge itself as well. If someone spams the lunge you use another "cheap" move to counter it.

So all the "cheap" moves are kinda like checks and balances of eachother, making the normal moves still required to win.

(though all the backstabs are extremely useless. I think Raven bit off more than they could chew with that one, it's so difficult to consider how players would use it to balance for practical play. 1.03 = ultimate strategy to winning. 1.04 = useless joke).

Rad Blackrose
06-19-2003, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Rockstar
well then it should be a stab or thrust, not a stupid uppercut


You do realize that the lunge is an uppercut with a thrust visualization, not a slash? There is a very, very large difference between the two.

lllKyNeSlll
06-19-2003, 02:40 PM
rockstar. lunge is a thrust upwards. and its not unblockable. put 3 stars on sab defense. stand still in red stance have someone lunge. you. yes you will take damage, but you will block most of it. prolly only take 5 to 10 damage.

Tosh_UK
06-19-2003, 02:41 PM
as in all moves if over used it gets a bit lame

Solbe M'ko
06-22-2003, 03:10 PM
I use the lunge occasionally, when the opportunity arises, and I play against guys who use it responsibly, so there isn't much problem there. The problem is when some lunge spammer comes onto the server, gets one quick kill, and starts saying that he is the 733T Master of Saberz. We get rid of guys like those quickly, not by banning them, but by humiliating the hell out of them.


ILR sez:
That said, the game that Raven ended up with is some kind of combat game that resembles Star Wars. The lunge (in this generic combat game that resembles Star Wars) is an added variable to keep the combat from being linear. When I say linear, I mean "everyone-pretty-much-does-the-same-thing-with-little-variation-on-style-or-skill."

I can hear where you're coming from on that one, but I don't agree with it. I play no force duels and the guys I play against are mostly right around or just above my skill level. We all have different styles. I usually play an offensive red stance with lots of jumps and overhead attacks, or a conservative yellow stance, depending on who I'm facing. The best guy on the server usually uses little hops and wide red swings. Some of the guys can just wait you out. They wait for you to make the smallest mistake, then capitalize on it. The really important thing to know is that this server has mostly pretty good players, who don't spam moves (out of neccesity; spamming is easily countered), and who play for fun. The moves that get spammed on most servers (lefty-righties, lunges) just don't work there, so most people avoid using them. It's up to the players to work out a play style, so it's not Raven's fault that some players use similar moves.

Rockstar
06-23-2003, 10:53 AM
yes i know the red stance can stop the lunge but i think it would be much better if the yellow could 2.... :(

i wouldn't mind it as much if it were one of a few standing specials, but its the pretty much only standing special. which is what makes it so lame as it gets overused. yes i do like its counterablility ot lighining and drain spammers, however i think it takes some of the fun out of saber combat. thats just me tho.

cya :cool:

Semicolon
06-23-2003, 11:12 AM
All stances are equal...it's just a matter of how you go about using them....

ILR
06-23-2003, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Semicolon
All stances are equal...it's just a matter of how you go about using them....

I think yellow is the ultimate stance :P

But honestly, when my opponent uses yellow I immidiatly jump to full attention. Considering the damage one slash in yellow does, its pretty fast by comparison. Also, movement in yellow is actually much faster than the other two styles. This is because blue style has the player swirl in circles alot, which slows him down. And red is slow just because it's red.

I use yellow, and only yellow. It pisses my opponents off sometimes, but I think their more upset that they lost than that I keep with yellow the whole time.

Solbe M'ko, what is the IP of the server you play at? I need a good place to find strong opponents.

Solbe M'ko
06-23-2003, 08:08 PM
True, but some stances are just better suited against certain others, so it depends on how you fight, and how your opponent fights. If a player isn't well versed in all 3 stances, he can hardly ever win against someone who is.

ILR
06-23-2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
True, but some stances are just better suited against certain others, so it depends on how you fight, and how your opponent fights. If a player isn't well versed in all 3 stances, he can hardly ever win against someone who is.

I dont touch the other stances and I hardly ever lose. I know what you mean though, I've seen players womp on guys that have givin me a hard time, and I'll go in thinking he must be at least as good if not better than me.... and kill him easily. I figure that my style just happened to be his weak spot.

I find players switching often the easiest to kill, since they usually have a pattern they memorized. Please, let me know where it is you normally duel and I'll show you what I mean.

Solbe M'ko
06-24-2003, 02:35 AM
I know exactly what you mean. Most players (even the excellent ones) have a pattern of their favorite moves. I find that certain play styles are countered by other play styles, so no one can really come out on top. For example, I played this one duel with 3 players: I could kill one of them, but not the other. We could each beat one of the other players, but would get womped by the next one, so the scores stayed practiacally equal until the very end, where the guy who had the first match won because he just had more matches under his belt; that was very strange. I've learned how to fight better since then, so now I can alter my style to defeat just about any other style (but not any other player, I'm afraid :( ). I find that I can beat guys who stick to one routine, but players who play like me give me trouble, because we both adapt quickly (like the borg!), so it often just comes down to a mix of anticipation and dumb luck.

I play mostly on The Masters duel servers, BTW.

Every play stlye has an Achilles heel, it's just a matter of discovering what it is. That's probably the best way to look at a game.

Semicolon
06-24-2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko


Every play stlye has an Achilles heel, it's just a matter of discovering what it is. That's probably the best way to look at a game.

Exactly. I don't think any stance is more powerfult than the other...it's just how you go about using them on your opnnent and whatnot.