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lukeiamyourdad
06-17-2003, 04:31 PM
Lukeiamyourdadís civs template

Hi everyone!
Since Windu and sith did their civs template and Vostok is doing his, I thought I should do mine. Although at first, I thought this would be useless, I figure then what hell? Schoolís out and I now have a lot of time to waste.

So these are my ideas. Iím doing a civ today and the 7 others should come along in the next few weeks.

Rebel Alliance

Iím starting with the rebs since theyíre my favorite and I have the clearest ideas for them (I donít have a lot of ideas for the other civs for now).

Iím naming here the buildings and the units they can produce in the order theyíre available (from the first available unit to the last).
Iím giving a small description of the unit along so you will know what it does.



Rebel Command Center:

-R5-D5: Worker unit. Builds buildings, gather resources and repairs buildings and mechanized ground units.
-Medic Droid (2-1B): Heals organic units. Slow and weak.
-Trader (till looking for a name): Rebels trade with their CC to other allied spaceport or rebel CC (donít know I the neutral trade city will be included but if yes then you can trade there too).

Recruitment Center:

-Security Guard: First infantry unit. Armed with a small blaster
Upgrade to:
-Rebel Soldier: Better armed but still the same armor
-Assault Trooper: Armed for battle, quite fast.
Upgrade to:
-Spec Force Trooper: Soldier who has a bonus vs. buildings
-Sniper: Very high ranged soldier armed with sniper rifle but slow and weak. Only trooper capable of shooting down aircraft.
-Mortar Trooper: Throws mortars at enemy mechs. Like SWGB1ís grenadier.
-Tauntaun: Scout unit. Weak vs. everything but fast and has an extensive line of sight.

Rebel Factory:

-Combat Speeder: Fast, high attack but low armor and hp. Hit-and-run unit.
-All-Terrain Transport: Fast ground transport that can rush troopers into the heat of battle.
-Deployable Turret and AA Turret: Rebel defense structures are deployable and are built at their factory.

Rebel Aerial base:

Rebels build their aircrafts from a floating platform but it is still built on the ground by a worker.

-X-Wing: Main fighter. Average vs. everything.
-Y-Wing: Bomber. High armor but very weak AA attack.
-A-Wing: Interceptor. Cannot attack ground target but very fast and excels vs. other aircrafts.
-B-Wing: Assault Fighter. Bad vs. other aircraft but good vs. buildings. Fires a Heavy Rocket every x amount of time.
-AirSpeeder: Bad vs. aircraft and most ground units except mechs.

Rebel Outpost:

The outpost is a fortified structure who can attack enemy units. Itís small and its attack is not very high.

-Mercenary: Good all-around unit but is expensive. Excels vs. Jedi.
-Mercenary Aircraft (probably will be the Outrider): Good Aircraft but expensive and slow and have high armor and hp. Average vs. everything.

Jedi Temple:

-Jedi Padawan: You know what a Padawan is lol!
Upgrades to:
-Jedi Knight: You also know what a Jedi Knight is and if you want to know what he does go check one of those Jedi Discussion thread.
Luke, Yoda and Obi-Wan: These are the three Jedi Master available. Luke is the stealthy sneek around master who beats infiltrates bases. Yoda has an aura that improves the attack and force power recovery rate of Jedi Knight while Obi-Wan has an aura that ups the attack of trooper units.

Other buildings:

-Shield Generator: Works like the SWGB1 shield generator but when the generator is destroyed, the buildings lose completely its shielding power.
-Detector: Placed on the ground by TaunTaun troopers, these donít have any attack and are just for recon.

Ressource gathering:

-The rebs gather ressources and brings them to an universal drop point(you can drop any ressources at this point). It's cheap, doesn't cost a lot and is weak.
-Floating Tibanna Gas Platform: This platform lands on Tibanna gas clouds and automatically gathers it.
-Rebel Farms: Their farms cost more, are stronger and do not require a gatherer to get food from it. It generates food automatically(however at a slower rate then regular farming so you'll need more farms to compensate)

Population

-The rebels having a very mobile army and move in and out fast, they don't have regular houses. Instead, they build transports for their pop. These transport(medium transport) are built on the ground by a worker and flies afterward. However, at first they mvoe really slowly but with a research they'll move fast enough to be used as regular transport.

Sea Units

-I have no idea about this so if anyone has any, post them.
Well this is it for the rebs. I have to think about the upgrades and buildings that will do them. Now flame me, applaud me or donít say anything J! The other civs will be ready in a week or so.

Lukeís dad

JediMasterEd
06-17-2003, 05:01 PM
There has to be a different unit that would fit the same properties of a Tauntaun. With trading, maybe there should be an option to build an interplanetary trade ship that you'd see take off and land within a three minute period, giving the player 500 of all resources. Also, for the merc ship, maybe it should be a Z-95 Headhunter.

lukeiamyourdad
06-17-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally TaunTauns were scouts so i think its place as scout is well deserve.
And your interplanetary trade ship is a nice idea but it should take longer for it to return(like 5 to 15 min).
And the Z-95 is the rebels training ship but I thought giving something else then a fighter might be more fun.

Sithmaster_821
06-17-2003, 05:57 PM
Its good to see other people's ideas concerning their opinion of the game (i like the whole floating air base thing)

I have some questions:

1. Are you going to post some overall/universal concepts that these templates will be based around? How are pop/resourses/countering implemented?
2. Do any other units besides the two mentioned troopers upgrade, and how is upgrading done in your version of the game?
3. How did you select the units? Did you first have a gameplay design, and picked units to fit that, or did you pick you units and then base the game aound them or maybe a combination? Did you have a kind of civilization personality in mind while creating these templates, and if so, what personality would the rebels have?
4. How is the Rebellion civilization unique from other civs (i noticed the moveable turrets and floating airbase, but are there any fundamental differences? Dependancies on resourses or land? Strengths and weaknesses? Different starts? Design differences?
5. In terms of balance, is your focus on natural or artificial counters or a little of both? Are there rough numbers per civ of anti-whatever units? If a unit is said to have a bonus vs something does tha mean that they are pop and cost effective counters, or are some just added niceties (i.e. are the special forces troopers cost effective building killers (a la heavy weapons or assault mechs) or are they regular units with a helpful bonus (like most infantry in AoK))
6. How are Jedi done? I noticed that the rebs can hire anti-jedi units, can all civs do that? How about the end "master" jedi? How are they done?

Sorry for bombarding you with questions, just trying to get a gameplay sense for your game.

Some points:

1. Moveable turrets, depending on their implementation, may make rebs too strong of turret rushers, unless their turrents are signifigantly weaker than other's, which would also fit with the rebellion idea.

2. If the Rebs are supposed to have the best air in the game, and, since their air production building is floating, thus only hittable from the air, wouldn't that make the rebellion air too strong. I think that it would make more sense from a balance perspecive if a civ like the Epire or the TF had it and it would also make a little more realism sense too

Thats it for now

lukeiamyourdad
06-17-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
Its good to see other people's ideas concerning their opinion of the game (i like the whole floating air base thing)

I have some questions:

1. Are you going to post some overall/universal concepts that these templates will be based around? How are pop/resourses/countering implemented?
2. Do any other units besides the two mentioned troopers upgrade, and how is upgrading done in your version of the game?
3. How did you select the units? Did you first have a gameplay design, and picked units to fit that, or did you pick you units and then base the game aound them or maybe a combination? Did you have a kind of civilization personality in mind while creating these templates, and if so, what personality would the rebels have?
4. How is the Rebellion civilization unique from other civs (i noticed the moveable turrets and floating airbase, but are there any fundamental differences? Dependancies on resourses or land? Strengths and weaknesses? Different starts? Design differences?
5. In terms of balance, is your focus on natural or artificial counters or a little of both? Are there rough numbers per civ of anti-whatever units? If a unit is said to have a bonus vs something does tha mean that they are pop and cost effective counters, or are some just added niceties (i.e. are the special forces troopers cost effective building killers (a la heavy weapons or assault mechs) or are they regular units with a helpful bonus (like most infantry in AoK))
6. How are Jedi done? I noticed that the rebs can hire anti-jedi units, can all civs do that? How about the end "master" jedi? How are they done?

Sorry for bombarding you with questions, just trying to get a gameplay sense for your game.

Some points:

1. Moveable turrets, depending on their implementation, may make rebs too strong of turret rushers, unless their turrents are signifigantly weaker than other's, which would also fit with the rebellion idea.

2. If the Rebs are supposed to have the best air in the game, and, since their air production building is floating, thus only hittable from the air, wouldn't that make the rebellion air too strong. I think that it would make more sense from a balance perspecive if a civ like the Epire or the TF had it and it would also make a little more realism sense too

Thats it for now

Where do you find these questions?:p
Anyway thanks for asking them. They will be useful.

1.These templates are based from many ideas taken from different threads and some are mine. As for pop I still have to think for it but I think the rebs can have ''transports'' which give a certain amount of pop(slight rip-off of zerg overlord)

2. In my version, only the troopers get upgraded(from week too strong). The rest is done through some kind of War Center or anything that looks like or functions like. It's basic but it has always been. In the ''war center'' you can upgrade weapons, unit speed, hp, armor, los. All the basic things. There aren't a lot of ways to do this.

3.Like everyone I think the rebs are a hit and fade civ with strong and fast troopers and the greatest airforce. I tried to be as true as possible to the movies so most units are in the movies. I actually built the rebs from both thinking about their personality and their existing units.

4.Like I said, they are a hit and fade civ. And they can ''destroy'' their own buildings and retake the ressources you built it with as a sign of the way they can set up a base fast and remove them as quickly. Also their buildings are weaker. As for ressources, I don't really want to have a civ who is heavily dependant over a certain ressource unlike another.

5.It's mostly natural counter. Of course if you upgrade your weapons the attack of the unit gets higher so maybe yes it's artificial. And a rough number of counter-units is almost necessary(if you can find me a way of not having rough numbers of counter-units plz tell me :D ). The counter units are pop and cost effective of course. If you need to have two mercs to kill a Jedi then the cost and pop of a merc will be half of the one of a Jedi(not litterally of course but you get the idea). However, for the specforce trooper, I thought about Poseidon's UU in AoM and thought it was a nice idea. However for it not to be a rip-off I thought of the Specforce trooper to be real strong and have a high cost but unlike the gastagraphetes(I can't remember the name lol). It's not a exactly a building killer since it can do other things quite well.

6. Most civs can hire anti-jedi(except gungans, republic and empire) but the others can. Well in my idea you only get a limited number of master(all heroes) who can actually help or lead other units(in this case trooper and Jedi) and another type which is a stealth fighter. They help units around them with a small attack bonus, armor bonus or hp bonus. Only the fighter type does not give bonuses but instead he has more force powers(all that has been argued about by Corran and Vostok in a certain thread which I can't remember the name) unlike the leader who has a more limited amount and is less strong as a fighter.

Now about your points
1. Yes they are a lot weaker.

2. Hmm. good point. Actually, I think that is AA can shoot it(the floating platform) it's not overpowered since I will make the other civs AA better then the rebs and they will be balanced so their AA (and air if it's the case) combined or used alone can effectively counter the rebs air force.

Sithmaster_821
06-17-2003, 07:09 PM
1-4. Thanks for spending the time answering my questions. I appreciate it.

5. Oops. I don't think I was explicit when I was talking about natural/artificial counters. Sorry, its stuff I picked off AoM. Mea culpa. Natural counters counter units without having a given bonus but with stats like good pierce armor or speed that enable them to cost effectively counter another unit (like how jarls counter archers in AoM, or troopers counter mounties). Artificial counters are units that, based on their stats alone, wouldn't cost-effectively counter certain units, but are given mulitpliers so tha they do (axemen vs infantry in AoM or mech destroyers vs mechs in SWGB).

6. The hero system reminds slightly of WC3 ;)

Point #2, wouldn't that then make AA too strong vs the Rebs since it can beat not only the building that builds their strongest units, but their strongest units as well?

lukeiamyourdad
06-17-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
1-4. Thanks for spending the time answering my questions. I appreciate it.

5. Oops. I don't think I was explicit when I was talking about natural/artificial counters. Sorry, its stuff I picked off AoM. Mea culpa. Natural counters counter units without having a given bonus but with stats like good pierce armor or speed that enable them to cost effectively counter another unit (like how jarls counter archers in AoM, or troopers counter mounties). Artificial counters are units that, based on their stats alone, wouldn't cost-effectively counter certain units, but are given mulitpliers so tha they do (axemen vs infantry in AoM or mech destroyers vs mechs in SWGB).

6. The hero system reminds slightly of WC3 ;)

Point #2, wouldn't that then make AA too strong vs the Rebs since it can beat not only the building that builds their strongest units, but their strongest units as well?

5. The answer is artificial

6. I didn't even think of WC3 when I made that up. If your Master gets killed it's dead. You can't build another one although he is very resistent.

Point 2. Well the AA are not super-strong vs. the platform. They can destroy it but they are not super effective at it. They are best at beating down their airforce. They can but not best, This kinds of forces non air-strong civ to have an airforce even if your facing the rebs. The AA takes care of the aircraft and the bombers come in to destroy the platform along with some help from the ground AA. Note also that the rebs' aircraft are very strong but costly and takes longer to build then other civs' aircrafts.

Sithmaster_821
06-17-2003, 07:28 PM
Ok, then, I'm content

JediMasterEd
06-17-2003, 09:21 PM
If I recall...i think it was the Swoop that was the scout and the Tauntaun troopers was the anti-armor/building unit, unless you're compairing it to the movies. As for the mercs, why not the YT-1300? Look what Solo did to his...well, Lando's first, then Han.

lukeiamyourdad
06-18-2003, 03:37 PM
Yes I know that the swoop was the scout but for I think a TaunTaun would be better.
And everybody knows about the YT-1300 and the Outrider or YT-???? would be a better choice as it's mostly unknown.

eizo131
06-19-2003, 11:33 AM
I like all the ideas the lukeiamyourdad thought up, could ypu possibly do this for the Republic? (please add ARC troopers if you do.)
what hapended to the text size???

lukeiamyourdad
06-19-2003, 02:49 PM
eizo- yeah sure I'm doing it for the eight other civs. You'll have to wait awhile for the republic tho 'cause I'm doing the Wookiees next and then the Naboo.

Now I've added some things in the template like how the rebels gather ressources and how their pop works.

Darth Windu
06-20-2003, 03:39 AM
Ok, a couple of things here-
1. Security Guards? Are you crazy???
2. Why have units upgrading to new units?
3. Mobile Turrets would make the Rebels too strong, and is also both bad for gameplay and unrealistic.
4. Whats the Y-wing for? If the B-wing attacks buildings, and the X-wing is good all-round, why have the Y-wing in there?

lukeiamyourdad
06-20-2003, 02:11 PM
1. See those troopers we saw in ep4 fighting the stormtroopers abord the tantiveIV? I think those should be ''security guards'' I know they're troopers but I see them more as guards since they don't seem to be heavily armed for combat.

2.It's actually not really an upgrade. Let's call that giving them better weapons(I guess it's the same thing). I just like it.

3.Actually no. Turrets don't come in until mid-game and are siginficantly weaker the ones of other civs.

4.It makes it unrealistic but Y-Wings will have more armor and do more damage to buildings then B-Wings. B-wings are there to damage turrets and other types of AA buildings while Y-wings take care of other buildings that doesn't hit them. Of course both of them are still beaten by AA units(not turrets units)

lukeiamyourdad
06-20-2003, 02:16 PM
Now I hate to double post but my Wookiee template is ready.



Now itís the wookieesí turn!
I have some nice ideas for them. Nobody really cared about them or the Naboo in the creation of their templates. There was little work put in for both these civs so Iíll be the one who will make them better. Of course, Iíll be using the unique unit set as much as possible but some things might get repetitive a bit but all units should work differently.

Again the buildings and units are made in the order they are available.

Wookiee Tree Center:

Villager: Unit that mainly gathers resources and builds buildings. Wookiee villagers are stronger and sturdier then other civs workers but cost a bit more.

Wookiee Hunter School:

Berserker: Basic wookiee infantry. Melee unit that runs into combat. Average vs. everything.
Bowcaster Trooper: Wookiee ranged infantry. Ranged, but low ranged.
Tree Lurker: No these units donít climb on trees but they travel pretty fast. Theyíre your basic scout but arenít very strong in combat.
Grenade Launcher Trooper (need a better name): These units are strong vs. buildings but weak vs. everything else.
Hunter: Wookiee anti-Jedi unit. Weak vs. everything else.

Wookiee Artillery Range:

Canon: Wookiee artillery unit that excels vs. mechs and enemy aircrafts.
Upgrade to
Long-Range Canon: Same but with longer range.
Anti-infantry artillery: Special Artillery unit that excels vs. infantry. Splash damage.

Wookiee Trade Center:

-Trader: Units that trades with other spaceport or in the rebel case with the CC.

Wookiee Piloting School:
(Ground airbase)
-Wookiee fighter (similar to SWGB): Average vs. everything.
-Wookiee bomber: Unit that flies toward a target while firing laser and when close drops bombs. Capable of defending itself vs. enemy fighter but is still very vulnerable to them.
-Colony Lander: Basic Wookiee air transport but requires to land before unloading or uploading units.

Wookiee Government Center
Wookiees donít get Jedi Knights or Masters but instead have similar units in their Governement Center.

-Wookiee Clan Leader: Unit armed with a bowcaster that boost morale (boosts attack actually) of surrounding units for a short time.
-Wookiee Matriarch: Unit armed with kas blades which boosts defense of surrounding units for a short time.

These units are costly and have a high pop cost although they will be useful.

Other buildings:

-Wookiee Turrets/AA turrets: Wookiee turrets arenít very strong but have high LOS.
-Intergalactic transmitter: Costly building that every once in a while grants you random helpful Rebel Units that come to help. Gives only 4 rebel units.
-Power Core: Regular Power Core that generates power within a certain radius.

Wookiee Ressource Gathering:

Wookiees gather resources to their respective drop-points. Like the rebels they gather Tibanna gas from a floating platform that lands on the Tibanna gas cloud and gathers the precious resource. Their drop-points are costly like most of their buildings but stronger then the others.

Population:

Wookiees build houses but have the ability to build houses in tree (comes in handy in forest heavy maps) but they can still build them on the ground. When a house is on a tree it still is vulnerable to ground attacks.

Wookiee abilities:

Like you probably saw, the wookiees have less units then the previous Rebs. However, their units are a lot more powerful then the ones of other civs but cost more and have a higher pop cost (which represents the low number of wookiee warriors who arenít enslave by the Empire).

Thatís it for the Wookiees now. Feel free to ask all the questions you would like to ask. Iíll be happy to answer them for. Also feel free to flame me or tell me if a certain unit is contradictory to the movies or anything.

Admiral Vostok
06-23-2003, 05:25 AM
Some good ideas here. I get the impression your Jedi Masters operate like Greek Heroes in AoM, is this correct?

With Uni finished for the moment I'll get back to developing my ideas, and perhaps post them in a similar thread, or on my webpage.

Good ideas concerning population. Some civs have a wide variety of cheap troops. Others have a limited variety of expensive troops. I think it is a great way of adding diversity amongst the civs, and is more "realistic" too. The Wookiees I see as much more of an elite unit focussed civ, while the Rebels might be less so, and something like the Trade Federation has heaps of cheap troops mixed with a few more elite ones.

Can't wait for the others!

lukeiamyourdad
06-23-2003, 10:40 AM
Yes my master operates like greek heroes in AoM but note that I have two types of masters, the guy who sneaks around and the leader.

Thanks for the compliments:) !

On my part I'm working on the Naboo right now and they should be done by the end of the week if not sooner.

I can't wait to see yours!

Sithmaster_821
06-24-2003, 01:18 AM
Yeah, I have most of my templates planned out (roughly), but its just a matter of whether Im not too lazy to post it.

Admiral Vostok
06-26-2003, 01:05 AM
I'm the same, Sith. I think I'll develop my civs, then post later when you guys have finished. This has two advantages:

1. I can plagiarise... er, be inspired by... Sith's, Luke's Dad's and Windu's ideas.

2. Spreading out civ plans will avoid the forums suddenly returning to extreme dullness.

JediMasterEd
06-26-2003, 11:38 AM
That's true...the second one. But what if we run out of ideas? Then it will end up becoming dull again...I shouldn't of left a while ago...racked up my posts before these forums became...you know. It's the usual people posting now. We need more people here...there's, what, little under twenty people still posting here? Maybe more.

Maybe people should make their own templates, post them, and see if any are good.

lukeiamyourdad
06-26-2003, 05:01 PM
A little under twenty?!

A little under ten!

Hey we should take our time with these templates and try to buy some time before the dullness comes back. Post a civ every week and then split up the rest for a certain number of weeks. I'll keep the place alive a bit longer.

Sithmaster_821
06-26-2003, 08:12 PM
Im all for not posting my templates for a while. The longer the better. Putting stuff off for later is so much easier than doing it now. Thats why we have the Bush tax cut.

lukeiamyourdad
06-27-2003, 01:06 PM
There hasn't been a lot of ideas for the naboo apart from garrisoning in houses and Huge shield generators.
Well most of the stuff here are basically my ideas for the naboo not so much anyone's.


Naboo Public Center

Worker Droid- Naboo worker droids work faster but build slower.
Governor- when tasked on a building, the building researches faster, builds faster and gathers ressources faster(AoM rip-off:p )
Flame me for this. Can only build 3.

Naboo Academy

Police Officer- Melee unit armed with a stunt baton.
Upgrades to
Police Officer with Pike: You get the idea with the name.
RSF Rifleman: Naboo ranged ground unit.Only Naboo unit that can shoot down aircraft.
Royal Crusader: Very heavily armoured cavalry unit. This units is armed with an Ion Cannon capable of defeating mechs and heavies but his attack is quite weak. However he has A LOT of hp and armor.
{Empty Space}
Flash Speeder- Fast anti-mech unit.
Gian speeder- fast anti-infantry unit.

Naboo Flight School

N-1 StarFighter- Multipurpose fighter good all around aircraft
N-1 StarFighter Proton torpedo launcher mode: N-1 Fighter that can't use his lasers but instead shoots torpedoes and damages buldings.
Royal Starship- Fast Trooper carrying vessel.
Royal Cruiser(thing you saw at the beginning of ep2):mech carrying vessel. Has a special ability to repair other aircrafts in flight(fighters attaches themselves on it's wings and gets repaired instead of going back to the flight school)

Naboo Government Facilities

King/Queen: Fighting unit that boosts hp of surrounding troopers.
Pirate: Hireling. Simple infantry unit good vs. Jedi. High cost.
Lieutenant: Fighting unit that boosts attack of surrounding units.

Jedi Temple

Padawan: don't have to explain this twice do I?
Jedi Knight: same
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan: Your Jedi Masters(well not exactly but anyway) Alone they are good fighters but if together they will wreck havoc.

SpacePort

Intergalactic Trade Cargo Ship: Standard Naboo Trader. Naboo gets a trading bonus.
Intergalactic Freighter: This cargo freighter is a flying trader although it can't be harmed by ground units, these ship don,t get the trading bonus.

Ressource Gathering

Naboo gets ressources mainly from trading(bonus) but can also gather it through different ressource gather point for each ressources. They get their tibannan gas through trading only(note that this means neutral trade towns exists) also have a Tibanna gas trading bonus(heavy bonus).
The Naboo get from the beginning a small constant trickle of credit due to their concentration on education, culture and so on.

Ppulation

They build houses. Just houses. However, trooper units can garrisson in these houses and provide it with a small defensive attack.

Abilities

As you can see, they build all their ground units through one singl building but that building costs more and are sturdier then other civ's building...building.
They get a trading bonus so people should get into trading with this civ.
They have some decent troopers although they will be weaker with the exception of the royal crusader


well this is it for the naboo. If you have any more ideas post them! or simply flame the crap out of me.

JediMasterEd
06-27-2003, 01:35 PM
Why not combine the two N-1 ideas? It's pointless to have two of the same craft have two different weapons that they both share. Something like just lasers for the infantry, lasers and proton torpedo's for vehicles and buildings.

lukeiamyourdad
06-27-2003, 01:43 PM
I thought so at first but then I saw that the N-1 would be the ultimate aircraft good vs everything so vastly overpowered.

Admiral Vostok
07-02-2003, 12:43 AM
Not bad, here's what I say:

:atat: I'm very against the Demolition Squad Trooper. Naboo has a small enough population as is without soldiers blowing themselves up. Either have him survive or get rid of him altogether.

:atat: Pirate doesn't sound very Naboo-ish.

:atat: I like that they rely on trade to get tibanna gas. Although this potentially unblanaces the civ, it goes with the theme of being a dependent civilisation, which is why the Trade Federation's blockade was such a concern - they weren't self-sufficient. Instead of making it that you need to trade with neutral towns (which is where I see the unbalancing coming in) perhaps they can only obtain it through resource exchange, but get a Credit-resource mining bonus to balance this.

So which civ is next on the list?

lukeiamyourdad
07-02-2003, 04:12 PM
1. I thought that the demolition trooper could be those guys who destroys old buildings with dynamites and stuff. maybe he can survive...

2. I remember some EU pirate helping the Naboo during the Battle of naboo. But That's just EU.

3. I understand the unbalance in the naboo's case for Tibanna gas and they already get a credit bonus(now mentioned). however ressource exchange seems bad in this case. The price of Tibanna will get too high and it will cost too much credit to trade. Maybe we can have both.

I'm making the Hutt cartel next.

Admiral Vostok
07-02-2003, 10:55 PM
1. It's still not very Naboo-ish. I can't see a Naboo person ever using explosives. They are more long-range oriented in my eyes.

2. Well clearly the Naboo civilisation doesn't look like they'd mix with pirates. They are too self-righteous. Once again EU screws things up. Maybe the odd Pirate is feasible, but making them a hero/leader unit is entirely contrary to the movies. Bounty Hunters are a different matter - the Naboo's dependence on outside forces lends itself well to them.

3. The Naboo could have some sort of benefit over other civs when it comes to exchanging for tibanna. After all, their strength in air makes it a vital resource for them.

Perhaps the Naboo simply get a trickle of Credits from the start of the game (or once they reach the second tech level). This would be a better implementation of their "Taxation" tech they had in SWGB1. Since the Naboo culture focusses on education, government and the arts, this trickle of Credits is entirely feasible (the whole society contributes to the greater good).

Sithmaster_821
07-02-2003, 11:52 PM
I like the idea of them getting resourses exclusively from trading, but they should get a lot of gas from each trader, cause they are an air dependant civ.

CLOned
07-03-2003, 10:58 AM
i like your ideas but the only problem i found was that demolition guy naboo r civilised and they wouldnt really give there life for 1 building. instead of the pirate maybe u could build a squad leader it would boost the fighters attack a little and give its pilots a strategic edge in air combat.

lukeiamyourdad
07-03-2003, 01:24 PM
Vostok:

1. Hmmm....How can they destroy their old buildings when they want to build new ones? Anyway, I'm making the change to planting charges and running away.

2.They're not hero/leader units. More like my mercenary for the Rebels just with another name.

3.Agreed. And good idea on the trickle of credit. Making the changes right now.

Admiral Vostok
07-04-2003, 03:43 AM
1. Styles of warfare and construction don't have anything to do with each other. There is no civilisation on earth that demolishes their own buildings for redevelopment with ranged missiles.

The demolition trooper does not fit with the Naboo. That type of unit are more identified with terrorist-type armies, so they would be right at home in the Rebel Alliance. The Naboo style of warfare is thus: since they have a small population, the Naboo focus on small groups of well-trained, elite unites, rather than a horde-like mass of lesser-abled troops. The Naboo have a very cultured way of life, which is also reflected in their armed forces: uniforms are beautiful colours and designs, and their vehicles gleam with polished chrome and smooth, artistic design. Surely from this description you can see that a guy running up to a building and planting a bomb is not very Naboo-ish. Ranged warfare is considered much more advanced and cultured (at least it is in our world) and as such the Naboo's method for enemy building destruction would be more like the cannon or artillery of SWGB1.

2. Okay. But in the way of heroes I think for the Naboo you should take CLOned's great idea of giving them a flying hero in an N-1. Get rid of the pirate/mercenary altogether.

3. Good.

lukeiamyourdad
07-05-2003, 11:37 PM
1. I just thought that in time of desperation and when you're vastly out-powered, out-gunned and out-manned, you use whatever you can.

2.If we have squad leaders we'll need basically squad leaders for all civs since it wouldn't make any sense how only the Naboo are smart enough to have leaders. Anyway, I'm keeping the merc for the rebs. I'll think about the pirate.

3. :D

Admiral Vostok
07-07-2003, 01:25 AM
1. When it comes to the Naboo that is not the case. They are a very sophistocated people, and if they must resort to warfare they'll do it with style and discipline, not with "whatever they can".

2. Keep the Merc for Rebels by all means, it goes well. But pirate for Naboo is so wrong.

lukeiamyourdad
07-07-2003, 12:49 PM
1.Hmm...there are times for discipline and style and others when you're desperate...I'll think about it.

2.Still thinking...

lukeiamyourdad
07-18-2003, 03:58 PM
Well guys I finally got off my lazy ass to make the Hutt Cartel Template

Now now some precisions about the Naboo first:

-I've removed the demolition trooper due to heavy opposition
-I'm keeping the pirate as an anti-Jedi Trooper

I'm adding a few precisions about Jedi now:
-Certain civs can ''mass produce'' Jedi type units while others cannot. Let me explain. The civs which can mass produce them get weaker Jedi Knights and Padawans but they cost less (ressource and pop) while civs who can't ''mass produce'' them get stronger Jedi, but for a higher cost.

MP Jedi Civs:

-Republic
-Empire(you'll see)

Non MP:

-Rebel
-Confederacy
-Naboo

The other civs don't get to have any Jedi at all but other types of units to compensate. Now when I say ''mass produce'' I don't mean it litterally. It just means you can get a higher number of them.

I'll post precisions about warfare, trading, overall ressource gathering, etc. in some other posts after I finish the civs.

Now for the Hutt Cartel:

Palace: Starting building, acts as a CC but stronger with more hp but lower defensive attack

-Slave: Basic Worker. Does everything a worker can except repairing mechanized units and buildings.
-Slave/Engineer: Repairs mechanized units and buildings but can also heal organic units.
-T-16 Skyhopper: Unarmed at the beginning of the game, fast flying scout. You're not granted one at the beginning, you have to build one.

Cantina:
Trooper building facility

-Gammorean Guard: Hutt Basic trooper armed with an axe or polearm. High hp and attack but rather low armor.
-Weeqay: Armed with pikes but has a low attack with high armor. Mainly defensive units.
-Hireling: Random alien/human which is basically a guy armed with a small hand blaster. Not strong but cheap.
-Bounty Hunter: Only available to Hutt Cartel(Other anti-Jedi units for other civs). Strongest Anti-Jedi unit. Very high cost but all around effective. Can only build a few( if the first one you hire dies, then you can build a second one. The second one is stronger however. I'm thinking about putting heroes for this( starting by Greedo up to Boba Fett adn it ends there). Costs gets higher with every stronger bounty.

Starport:
Where you build all sorts of ships and vehicle

-Desert Skiff: Normally unarmed land troop transport. If units are loaded on it, it gets the attackt power of the first unit to load into it.
-Landspeeder: Fast ground unit. Weak hp and armor but decent attack. Basically a landspeeder with a guy handling a mounted gun on it.
-Desert Barge: Slow moving lightly armored ship. Can move on land only. Small defensive attack but can transport LOTS of trooper units.

T-Wing: Pirate fighter. Very fast but low attack and very low armor and hp.
Freighter: Slow moving flyer with very high hp but bad attack. Some sort of flying fortress.
R-41 Starchaser: Torpedo fighter. Dives in on its target and launches a torpedo. Very effective vs. ships.
Z-95 Headhunter: Multi-purpose fighter but weak hp and rather slow.
Transport: Air Transport. period.

Hutt Palace:
Building where you can build special Hutt units. Also serves as defensive building.

Jabba the Hutt: Slow moving Jabba orders units around. Increases the attack of surrounding troopers.
Garduala the Hutt: Slow moving hutt which increases the wroking rate of slaves around her/him...
Hutt: Slow moving hutt that works like Set's priests in AoM. Can convert certain types of enemy units(Heroes, robotic, and Jedi units cannot be converted but hirelings such as mercs, pirates and hutt hirelings are more easily ''persuaded')

Spaceport

Trade Freighter: Most heavily armored trader unit. Gets Hutt cartel best trade bonus.
Gambler:Units that uh...gambles ressources. When one is on the terrain, you get a certain number of ressources every x amount of time but you might also lose x number of ressources.

Other buildings:

Power Cores: Hutt power cores are not expensive but happens to degrade over time.
Trading Shop: Buildings that increases the trading rate if it's...built. High Cost

Ressource and Trading

Well they get a heavy trading bonus. Their workers however are a bit less effective in late game. They get Tibanna gas through regular paltforms.

Population

They get pop with houses or Camp. Camp are weak but are set up quickly. You start with a few camps then you ccan build houses.

Other things

They get no Jedi type unit but they get the strongest bounties.
They get no fighting sea units but as you can see have a flying anti-ship unit.

I have no idea however of how their sea units should work. So again if you have any idea on sea units for any civs(except gungans) please post them.

That's all for now. I'm doing the Empire next!!!

Admiral Vostok
07-20-2003, 04:49 AM
Well I personally feel the Hutt Cartel or some similar smuggling organisation is not worthy of inclusion in SWGB2, merely because they would prefer to wage war in an under-handed, inconspicuous way rather than fielding an armed force.

However, I will comment on a couple of things for this civ design:

:atat: Military units are built at a cantina? :confused:

:atat: Love the gambler idea.

:atat: The aliens whose names you forgot are probably weequay.

:atat: Not sure about the whole "bounty hunters get stronger with each one that dies" concept. I think if this is implemented the bounty hunter should at least cost more each time, as though the hutt management are saying "that guy sucked, we better spend more on the next guy".

Here's an interesting idea, though no doubt most people will hate it: due to the dodgy types who associate with the hutts, if you leave two or more trooper units standing around doing nothing, they get damaged every few minutes. This represents the fact that if not given things to do, the mercenaries will get to talking and no doubt start fighting each other. This can be avoided by simply setting them to patrol. This is a little annoying, but I think it captures one of the things you would have to take into consideration if you were really in command of a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

lukeiamyourdad
07-20-2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
1.Well I personally feel the Hutt Cartel or some similar smuggling organisation is not worthy of inclusion in SWGB2, merely because they would prefer to wage war in an under-handed, inconspicuous way rather than fielding an armed force.

However, I will comment on a couple of things for this civ design:

2.:atat: Military units are built at a cantina? :confused:

3.:atat: Love the gambler idea.

4.:atat: The aliens whose names you forgot are probably weequay.

5.:atat: Not sure about the whole "bounty hunters get stronger with each one that dies" concept. I think if this is implemented the bounty hunter should at least cost more each time, as though the hutt management are saying "that guy sucked, we better spend more on the next guy".

6.Here's an interesting idea, though no doubt most people will hate it: due to the dodgy types who associate with the hutts, if you leave two or more trooper units standing around doing nothing, they get damaged every few minutes. This represents the fact that if not given things to do, the mercenaries will get to talking and no doubt start fighting each other. This can be avoided by simply setting them to patrol. This is a little annoying, but I think it captures one of the things you would have to take into consideration if you were really in command of a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
1. They wanted to put such a civ for Clone Campaigns but did not have enough time. I think they deserve to have a place in GB2.

2. Mercenaries, Bounty Hunters, little Gambler, Scum, all hang out at the cantina. Think about it as a recruitment center.

3. Thank you:p

4. THANK YOU!

5. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll make the change right now.

6. Yes people will hate it:p

*Turns his back away from his Hutt army for some time to take care of his econ...forgets to put them on patrol...goes back to his army...lots of corpses...and the remainders are fighting each other...*

You get the idea...

Admiral Vostok
07-21-2003, 04:44 AM
2. Still sounds pretty funny

6. Some people will hate it, but to compensate your troopers should be cheaper. I consider myself an experienced gamer because I play not only computer games, but many other games including Warhammer (which some of you may be familiar with). Warhammer is a tabletop miniature wargame, which is actually very similar to an RTS in some respects. Anyway, there is a race you can play as in Warhammer Fantasy called Orcs, which are based on a mixture of Tolkien's Orcs and barbarian tribes. Anyway, there is a rule for Orcs that because they fight amongst themselves a lot, you have to make a test to see if they do just that. I'm not sure of the exact details since I don't use Orcs myself, but it involves something like rolling a dice and if you get a certain result one of your units fights amongst itself, rather than fighting the enemy.

I mostly play Warhammer 40,000, which is the Science-Fiction version of the game. I play Tyranids, which are basically a combination of the Alien films' aliens and Starship Troopers' bugs. They have a rule that if your lesser creatures go too far away from the leading creatures they revert to instinctive behaviour, which could include hiding in a forest or running away altogether.

Sure, this things are annoying, but they add complexity and an extra level of thinking and strategising to overcome. I think if this sort of thing were introduced into an RTS it would make a fantastic game. It would be a welcome change from simply build->train->fight->repeat until victorious.

You may see it as annoying, but in reality you always have to take the good with the bad, and I really think this is something that Hutt leaders would realistically have to be concerned with. If we want an authentic Star Wars feel it's the only way to go. Well, that's my rant for the day.

lukeiamyourdad
07-21-2003, 02:51 PM
2. From a realism point of vue it's way better a cantina...

6. This underpowers the Hutt. Since most Hutt Soldiers are basically mercenaries and hirelings, we cannot lower their cost and this makes other civs way more powerful. Other players playing other civs won't have to spend the extra seconds(seconds are very important) on putting them on patrol('cause you have to make them patrol acertain area not just randomly).
The Hutts are underpowered this way. If this was a turn based game, it would work but I don't think it will in an RTS.

Admiral Vostok
07-23-2003, 02:43 AM
On the contrary, hiring mercenaries is cheaper than training and outfitting your own army. Therefore a lower in price is entirely reasonable. However, I don't think this is the way to make up for the animosity rule (stole that name from the Orcs I mentioned earlier).

All civs have a bad point, some more than others. The Trade Federation has weak, slow troopers. The Wookiees have tough, fast units. Overall, the Hutt Cartel's troops are reasonable, perhaps their only weakness is their animosity. I think it would be nice to add little things in like this, that overall they even out but still provide a level of realism you wouldn't get if every civ operated in exactly the same way.

lukeiamyourdad
07-23-2003, 06:55 PM
I'll think about it and ask around a bit but I don't think this will serve anything more then annoy the crap out of people.

CLOned
07-24-2003, 09:17 AM
the hutts as u said are mercenaries i really dont think they should be a civ since they are nothing more then a gang and go on about there own business and dont really care about trying to destroy another civ. i really think it would be better if they had small camps on maps (desert) ewok camps (forest) and they have unique upgrades for your troops and stuff.

kinda like the kreeps in warcraft 3

Admiral Vostok
07-24-2003, 10:40 PM
Well those are my thoughts as well, CLOned.

Luke's Dad, ignore my idea if you want. I just think it's a shame that people aren't willing to overcome the bad points in their army to have a more authentic experience, they just want the armies to be good no matter what.

lukeiamyourdad
07-25-2003, 02:38 PM
Well that's why there's so many newb bashers, *******s out there. I've asked around and it turns out this idea is not so welcomed...This is a difficulty that will slow down the Hutt more then any other civs...oooo I just thought of something else...

Here it is...with the Hutts as long as there is a military unit active on the map, you lose gradually credits(representing paying for your hireling) and if for some reason your credit number is too low, your army is starting to fight each other.

This could also be represented in the original cost of the unit. Alongside the regular cost(in this case Hutt units don't cost credits at the beginning) and everyone of them costs say 1 credit for x amount of time. The more troops you have the more credit it will cost you. The stronger units also cost more credits per x amount of time or still 1 credit but for a shorter amount of time.
If you don't have enough credits your units will start fighting each other.

Admiral Vostok
07-31-2003, 02:51 AM
Okay, that's a great idea and I whole-heartedly support it. Though perhaps instead of fighting each other they become uncontrollable - they become like a neutral computer player. So they'll defend themselves if attacked, but they won't do your bidding until you get more credits. There would of course be a warning when this is about to happen.

lukeiamyourdad
07-31-2003, 03:37 PM
Nice idea Vostok. Thanks for it.