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View Full Version : Binding Specials Prevention: Default to off or on?


Marker0077
06-27-2003, 11:54 AM
Voting ONLY TAKES A SECOND, so vote please.

Duelers Mod 1.3 features macro prevention which gives the host an option to disallow the use of binding special moves to one key, along with binding kick to one key, etc; etc. on their server. Duelers Basic defaults this to on but I am unsure on whether or not I should do the same for Full, this is where you guys come in.

If you guys select to do a quick custom server preset via the Duelers Full installer, I will put in an extra screen that asks you whether you want to default it to off or on (along with some other options probably), but if you decide to not do a quick custom server, should I default the macro prevention to off or on?

FYI, the macro prevention works very well, probably the best there is for JK2. It only prevents special binds & whatnot, it does not prevent anything else like using other scripts.

Thanks for your time & feedback folks, it is appreciated.

lllKyNeSlll
06-27-2003, 12:00 PM
Useless, I personally think that option. X-mod tried to do the same thing where they disallow vstr commands. If you don't allow vstr there are other ways. INstead of using a vstr, they can just directly bind the move to a key. i.e. bind x "fkjaskdjfk;ajskjf;jaskdjf"

therefore, there is no true way of stopping them I believe. And this will also hurt many who use keys like bind end "seta force powers"

Marker0077
06-27-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll
Useless, I personally think that option. X-mod tried to do the same thing where they disallow vstr commands. If you don't allow vstr there are other ways. INstead of using a vstr, they can just directly bind the move to a key. i.e. bind x "fkjaskdjfk;ajskjf;jaskdjf"

therefore, there is no true way of stopping them I believe. And this will also hurt many who use keys like bind end "seta force powers" First off, we are not X-Mod, we are Duelers & we have one of the best coders on the scene doing this. Do not judge a book by its cover & do not judge our attempts by others who have failed in the past. If you think you can get past our macro prevention, then do it (yes that is a challenge). Duelers 1.3 Basic is available for download at JK2Files.com.

Secondly, I've been scripting since Quake 1, that's around 10 years. I personally worked with Lee (Duelers coder) on a variety of ways to get around the macro prevention, which I could do at first but now, the macro prevention is unbeatable as far as we know. The ONLY way you can get around it is with a 3rd party program. You can't even bind specials via a seperate .cfg file, it scans that too.

Thirdly, the macro prevention does not prevent anything else as far as we can tell. You can still use vstr commands (as long they do not have multiple moves bound in it), you can still launch .cfg files or do anything you could before, just no special binds or any other binds of that nature.

Also, I voted off because I am a n00b that binds specials. :-)

lllKyNeSlll
06-27-2003, 12:24 PM
explain to me how your system detects a multiple chained bind.

Marker0077
06-27-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll
explain to me how your system detects a multiple chained bind. I'm not the coder so I do not know in detail how everything works. I do know that it scans all aliases (vstr commands) & any .cfg files that are bound to a key. If you try & do a .cfg file to launch another .cfg file, it will scan them both. It basically scans everything & makes sure there are no multiple commands bound like +attack, +movedown, etc; etc. If it is there, it removes it & replaces it with a message like "echo illegal character blah blah blah" etc; etc. When the macro prevention is disabled, it puts whatever was originally bound back where it was.

Lastly, I was wrong about it being on JK2Files.com. It hasn't hit the shelves yet, however, you can download it off of the coders ftp server http://members.rogers.com/lee.oattes/duelers1_3.zip so be sure to check it out for yourself if it seems to hard to believe.

Then if you think that's impressive, checkout the rest of the mod, like the hilts pack, the new duel code, etc; etc. This thing should easily be the best mod on the JK2 scene, & this is just Basic. Wait until I release Full. ;-)

shock ~ unnamed
06-27-2003, 02:50 PM
Couple things.

Does this actively (constant) scan a clients directory or just on launch/connect?

Reason I ask is I have yet to see any software in any game that actively scans clients without inducing slow down on the client.

Granted not all are as extreme as Punk Buster, but the client side lethargy is a major issue with these types of prevention measures and it does force many people to specifically avoid those types of servers to get a non choppy/sluggish game.



Second I think defaulting this feature to "on" is a very big mistake and could pretty much end your mods popularity.

I understand this is not =X= mod but that reference was relevant.
=X= CTF server is arguably the most popular ff/so CTF server throughout all of 1.04.

When =X= mod first came out and clients were forced to download the script protection their traffic took a major dive and did not return until future versions were released and the option to download it became optional.

Now I understand that your mod makes this an option but let's be honest, how many people read "read me" files?

Very few, and chances are most won't even know this (script protection) is running but will wonder why all those regulars who used to play on their server no longer connect since the new mod was installed.

Marker0077
06-27-2003, 03:48 PM
The macro scanning is every 3 or 5 seconds or so, not just once.

You make a very good point though. I never thought about it that way.

For the moment, I am just going to release 1.2.1 which does not have that feature in it because the 1.3 version of Duelers damage settings are messed up (blue lunge does 60 damage instead of 30, red DFA does 240 damage instead of 120, etc; etc.) & the coder refuses to fix it in this version.

While 1.3 does feature fabulous new animations (can choose from a variety of different animations) & this cool new macro scanning option, I doubt most people will think that those features will make up for the damage settings (that you can not fix even with g_saberdamagescale).

If the coder decides to fix the damage settings, then I'll do a Duelers Full for that if I can.

As for the manual, I have a manual in winhelp format & another in html, so it is much easier to use. I don't think that this will make people start RTFM but it should at least help.

Mr.Joshua
06-27-2003, 04:50 PM
Active scanning = lag
I'll never put my computer in a situation to be actively scanned by a modder. Punkbuster is atleast produced by an actual company now, allowing some kid access to your computer via some active scanning module he created = dumb.

When are people going to learn that scripts aren't the problem? People are so quick to bash people for being beaten they'd rather cry scripter or hax or whatever than just admit they got whooped on. Since there's no public aimbots for jk2, they cry scripter instead. It's quite pathetic.

lllKyNeSlll
06-27-2003, 04:55 PM
Tell you the truth, for good players the only deadly script is the energize script. Lunge helps but doesn't change things. I know many players who in ff sabers simply go red instead of bothering with blue lunge script.

Haemon
06-27-2003, 04:56 PM
Take the feature out altogether.

Scripting is only a minor problem in saberlocks(and hardly even then). Scripted moves ie: kick and lunge might help you a little but lunge isn't *that* great(not to mention is very predictable if relied upon) and a scripted kick has a shorter range than a regular one.

Script detectors are just more trouble than they're worth.

[edit] Kynes has a point about the energize script but that's only in TFFA and it needs more than one random joe to make it work well.

Marker0077
06-27-2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Joshua
When are people going to learn that scripts aren't the problem? People are so quick to bash people for being beaten they'd rather cry scripter or hax or whatever than just admit they got whooped on. Since there's no public aimbots for jk2, they cry scripter instead. It's quite pathetic. I couldn't agree more. This is one of the main reasons why I make people aware of the binds (via the Duelers Full manual) because TBH, I don't want to win if the only reason why I won is because my opponent didn't know about special binds.Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll
Tell you the truth, for good players the only deadly script is the energize script. Lunge helps but doesn't change things.This is true also, fortunately for Duelers users, the energize cheat does not work in Duelers. Duelers duel mode is a totally different code than the base game, it allows multiple duels at the same time, pairs up the better players with better players, worse for worse, etc; etc. It's not that popular AtM because most users do not even know that there is a new duel code.

Rad Blackrose
06-27-2003, 06:47 PM
No, they're too busy hugging VAM/JA for dear life! OMG! NO EMOTES?! PEOPLES LIEVS R @ STEAK!!!1!11!

Actually, I will predict some people to say that when Jedi Academy goes live.

shock ~ unnamed
06-27-2003, 06:57 PM
It's actually a pretty nice mod. I deleted all of the hilt/animation/sound files because I'm not into that stuff (I prefer my look/feel/sounds to be default) but as far as the basic focus of the mod it's very well done.

I think this mod would make a much bigger impact in JA because when that comes out you will see the return of the people who actually *play the game.

Now JK2 is just a glorified instant messaging program so no matter how many duel options or variables you put in, people will just hop around servers emoting and /amwhatevering.

lllKyNeSlll
06-27-2003, 08:18 PM
I liked the ff duel option instead of a nf duel. I think I read about this mod somewhere on the shockwave forums

Marker0077
06-28-2003, 05:58 AM
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
It's actually a pretty nice mod. I deleted all of the hilt/animation/sound files because I'm not into that stuff (I prefer my look/feel/sounds to be default) but as far as the basic focus of the mod it's very well done.With Duelers Full the sound & hilts are optional, they go in base & not Duelers. With Basic, if you have downloads on it will download the hilts & sound mod (blah).

Thanks for the comment, we do try. In Duelers 1.3 there are a variety of animations to choose from & they are in in the actual mod itself, so no extra animations & whatnot.