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Commodus
07-02-2003, 11:45 AM
This thread started as a complaint of all of the annoying threads asking the same questions that have been asked, but clearly developped into much more.

SP Modders

I've noticed a heck of a lot of people on this forum want to edit the SP part of JK2.

Lemme break a bubble here: you cannot change how SP works.

You can change models: you can change Luke into a horny bird, change saber-hilts to swords or do other things like that. You can change the skins: you can make the lightsaber a flaming saber or make Kyle all yellow or something.

But you cannot change anything beyond that.

Take for instance, the person who asked about dual lightsabers in SP. This is not a graphical change, so it cannot be done.

Things like double-bladed sabers are not possible either (you can get it by typing /thedestroyer but then that is only a graphical thingy itself anyway, it doesn't make the game different). Twin pistols aren't possible; jetpacks aren't possible; robot-controlled precision bombs aren't possible; anything non-graphical which deals with the mechanics of the game cannot be modified.

Why? Because there is no SP source code. And there probably won't be any SP source in the near future, because the SP module (jk2gamex86.dll) contains bits of the Quake 3 engine code, which is not available to the general public.

So please, I urge you to stop asking questions about SP modifying: there is virtually nothing you can do in SP. You could add a few levels to the game, add a few skins, maybe even change a model or two: but whatever you do, the game still plays more or less the same.

The only non-graphical changes you can make are through weapons.dat. But even then, these are only parametric changes, and their influence over the performance of the game are limited.

People asking questions that have been answered 65,536^(1/0) times

If you are following a tutorial, make sure you are following it correctly. If you think you are following it correctly, try experimenting a little and messing around, and if that doesn't help, look for tutorials for Quake 3 or RTCW (because games like RTCW and Quake 3 use the Q3 engine, which is what JK2 uses). If that still doesn't help, ask your question. Make sure that you have not left a single stone unturned, a single possibility uninvestigated.

Make sure that you have the JK2 SDK/GDK as well as the specialised tools.

If you are making models, you need gmax or 3D Studio Max or any other 3d modelling package that can somehow export your model to .md3 format or .xsi format;

if you are making skins, you need a image editing package like Paint Shop Pro or Adobe Photoshop;

if you are mapping, you need Radiant (which comes with the SDK anyway);

if you are coding, you need a text editor and the batch files. YOU DO NOT necessarily need MSVC 6.0 because the batch files do the QVM compiling for you, but it helps to have MSVC or something similar because of debugging capabilities and features like Find in Files, Go To, etc.

Oh, and please read the FAQs and the stickied threads in this forum before you ask a question. It is most likely that your question has been already answered - if it hasn't, then ask.

Where can I get some good tutorials on UVW mapping/modelling?

There are a bunch of UVW mapping tutorials out there. One of the best I think is at http://www.planetfortress.com/tf2models/tuto/3dsmax_sc/tuto_3dsmax_sc4.htm . Yes, it was written for Max 2, but that shouldn't matter, because I got it to work anyway. Just experiment with it or try other tutorials. Another good tutorial is the Wolfblade video tutorial at http://www.gignews.com/jade_3dsmax.htm .

For modelling, I would look at the gmax starter tutorials. These help to understand the basics and once you get the hang of them, other things come easily.

There are loads of tutorials about this sort of thing, and you can easily find a tutorial by looking around on this forum or going to www.planetquake.com/polycount.

Final Words

Overall, when you mod JK2, you have to take a little initiative. Nobody ever made anything cool or innovative by asking questions that had been answered a billion times before that. When Wudan or Razorace or Recombinant or any of the other more experienced modders started out in 2002, they had no-one to ask, yet they still found out how to do things. If they can learn without having to ask the same questions as everybody else, then surely you can.

BTW, if you:

a) did not understand a word of what I said, then you really should stay away from JK2 modding.

b) ask "But I'm not trying to edit anything" and you post your question here, then you should be smacked with a trout for posting in the wrong forum. General Editing is not for binders or anything else that you do not need skill to do.

Please do not take this as an attack - I think more people should try to mod JK2 and get involved. I am greatly in favor of that. However, I am totally sick of the perpetual already-answered-question-cycle that gets reincarnated every week. Feel free to ask questions, but if your problem can be solved without another post in the forum, then don't post.

Thanks,
Commodus

CortoCG
07-02-2003, 12:56 PM
Heh, you almost take this as seriously as I used to do. Commodus, take this advice please, relax :).
Most of the ppl who make this questions are either ppl that never touched a 3d editing program or never modified a game, so, they in their rights to make as many noob questions as they want, cuz this Forum is for that, and if the admins don't care, why should you :).
The another possibility is that they are lazy modders and don't wanna waste a minute reading books or tutorials. Anyhow, these forums are made for this.
How are they gonna get points if they don't post a lot? ;).
Take it easy man, it comes from a modder that almost lost the patience, hehe.
Bye.

recombinant
07-02-2003, 02:36 PM
If you are following a tutorial, make sure you are following it correctly. If you think you are following it correctly, try experimenting a little and messing around, and if that doesn't help, look for tutorials for Quake 3 or RTCW (because games like RTCW and Quake 3 use the Q3 engine, which is what JK2 uses). If that still doesn't help, ask your question. Make sure that you have not left a single stone unturned, a single possibility uninvestigated.

...and just to add to the list of tools in solving a problem: SEARCH.

This forum originally did not have a search function, so it was next to impossible to find an answer to your problem.

Now that there is a search, it's probably a good idea to check the archived posts because usually the things that have been asked many times over have answers that you can use to solve your problem

Trust me, I have way more questions than get posted here, but most of them have been answered in past threads.

Also don't forget Google (http://www.google.com).

Now, doesn't that sound useful? ;)

HTH!

:holosid:

razorace
07-02-2003, 08:49 PM
This is exactly why I think we need a easy-to-use database/website for this information.

CortoCG
07-04-2003, 11:20 AM
Hmmm... Lots of echo around here, they sould fix that too ;).

Kengo
07-04-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Commodus
The only non-graphical changes you can make are through weapons.dat. But even then, these are only parametric changes, and their influence over the performance of the game are limited.


Well....you can alter fire rate, clip size with that, as Master Thomas has already done.

You can alter the NPC cfg file which alters all enemy attributes, and you can as you said replace skins or models, so you can create completely new enemies, but only without the limits of the current AI.

The thing that really annoys me are the SP Mods which (in many cases) basically just steal a load of other peoples skins (not even crediting them in some cases) and other mods and throw them together into SP. The JO game often doesn't work properly, and its completely pointless. SP Modification is a lot more worthwile if relating to some new levels as well, then you can design around the modification not just mod for the sake of it. Still, like you said, there isn't much you can edit in SP, you can't change the fundamentals of the game. But it is possible to create some great projects without this, if people had the patience to slowly learn. What annoys me above all are those who don't want to have to make any effort, they just want to somehow download knowledge Matrix style and become experienced editors...also people who type mostly in capitals should be shot :)

I feel strangely better. Your post is pretty useful, and some kind of database for all the knowledge collated on the forums would be amazing, but a huge investment of time and effort too!

CortoCG
07-04-2003, 02:06 PM
Hmmm... I see I'm not the only grumpy modder around, which fills me with joy (that actuallly sounds kinda gay). Kengo, how're your maps going on? Can I see some screenies?

This thread is like a big pillow you can push towards your face and scream the things that annoys you, and after that you feel much better.

Btw, how can I put a rancor on my map, wielding a 2-sided lightsaber and spitting balls of fire from it's arse in SP??? Hehehe, just kidding.

Kengo
07-04-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by CortoMaltes
Hmmm... I see I'm not the only grumpy modder around, which fills me with joy (that actuallly sounds kinda gay). Kengo, how're your maps going on? Can I see some screenies?



Should be out next week man, thanks for asking :) Your Imperial Commando model shall take pride of place in a few screenshots I'll put up on the showcase thread later today :D

CortoCG
07-04-2003, 03:58 PM
Good, I'll be working on a few improvements for the commando this weekend.

Changes list: - bigger gloves.
- new helmet texture.
- new shaders for the boots and belt clip.
- at least, 2 more LODs.

Sorry Commodus for the off-topic reply. You can hate me and write something nasty about me now :D.

Emon
07-04-2003, 04:47 PM
You can do a lot more than you think. Just because you're close minded doesn't mean it's not possible. People like myself actually try to solve problems, instead of giving up.

Besides, many JO projects will be ported to JA, because JA SP editing has been greatly expanded, and if making SP on an MP server works like I hope it will, we can do whatever the **** we want with SP.

Kengo
07-04-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Emon
You can do a lot more than you think. Just because you're close minded doesn't mean it's not possible. People like myself actually try to solve problems, instead of giving up.


Also yes, there are some good work arounds (I know you've found some yourself) which do allow you to do some things that seemed undo-able. Having said that, you must admit some people come on the forums (often with absolutely no idea how to edit anything at all) asking how they can 'create a 5 headed dragon that you can ride around and it spits balls of fire and it can go underwater and has the ability to become invisible....' :eek: There are some things you really can't do for JO.

As much as the idea of porting levels sounds good, do we know how good thats going to be? Aren't there problems if you port say a RTCW or MOH level across to JO, even though they are all Q3A engine? Like maybe it can do the architecture but the textures and entities all have to be redone, and you get a load of errors - I don't know, just vaguely remember hearing something like that...

CortoCG
07-04-2003, 05:54 PM
Some said that new anims in MP where impossible :). Now we know it's not true. RPG mod's team have found a way to load non humanoid models into MP, like droids and the ATST.

Many of us found out important things that gave some hope to modders, but some other things like the 256 entities limit in MP maps are not work aroundable (sorry for the invention, I just don't know the word for it... Yet).

But this is not a thread to start a fight among us, is to complain about the noobs that post impossible crap or thousands of times the same sh*t.

Did somebody completed the Book of Noob?

razorace
07-04-2003, 07:41 PM
Well, the biggie is how how much work you're willing to do. You could potentially do ANYTHING if you were willing to reverse engineer the .exe.

CortoCG
07-08-2003, 05:58 PM
doh :)