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Die Another Day
07-03-2003, 12:24 PM
After MikeDoggg2004's thread, using the word 'gay' in a very offensive way, I was just wondering... is there anyone in here who is homophobic? I mean, strongly anti-homosexuals?
By the way, this is a nice thread, not a place where people can come and insult the gay community. Any nastiness and I'll delete the whole thread.

KBell
07-03-2003, 12:29 PM
I personally dont think its wrong, but i do sometimes find it disturbing to see Gay people kissing......

•-BLaCKouT-•
07-03-2003, 12:35 PM
For the record, no. Not at all.
Now I hate to use this cliché, but "some of my best friends are gay" (I can't believe I just said that) consequentally I've got no problems with it. I know people who have, mind you. :mad:

Anyway, back on topic; I knew what Doggg meant when he referred to the game as 'gay', and I don't think he meant it in an offensive way. (not to the gay community at least). Although I can see why he was reprimanded for it. I use the term myself sometimes, although only in company that I know will understand what I mean.

I remember reading an interview with the creators of South Park once. They were asked about their usage of the word 'faggot' in the movie and TV series. One of them (can't remember which) said something along the lines of:
"I know lots of gay people who aren't faggots, and plenty of 'straight' people who are."
I know what he means.
Hopefully you will too.

Anyways, just my 2p's worth :D
Peace out,
B.

KBell
07-03-2003, 12:42 PM
Thats a good point B, i sometimes use the word gay when someone is being really obnoxious and i'll just say " Jeez, she/he is so gay" without even knowing he/she's sexual prefrences.

obi
07-03-2003, 12:50 PM
I don't hate gay people, I just don't like homosexuality. I believe in the Bible and it's teachings strongly, and according to it, it's a sin, and I try my best not to live in sinful ways.

I am not a "homophobe" because I am not scared of them, so don't point a finger at me saying I am.

I think this thread belongs in the senate chambers more then anywhere else.

Homuncul
07-03-2003, 01:25 PM
I'm not against gays. Just I think it to be unnatural. And since common people is what I see every single day, it's a bit not something that I look normally at. Stil let it be, just I don't like escalation from both sides when for example some company fires a man cauze he's a gay, or a gay using his sexual minority preference starts the court process for egocentric reasons or just to earn some money from his "title"

Weapon X
07-03-2003, 01:44 PM
i once saw two gay people at disneyland, STEREOTYPICAL gay too, tiny leather vest on one, tiny mesh shirt on the other, tight leather pants, and a leather hat (village people style) i was just like :freakout::quesbrn::firehead and started shouting stuff at them because that was just wrong, you don't need to go around looking like that in DISNEYLAND, a family place, maybe it's different than wyoming but if they came here they'd probably be run out of town (by highschoolers and college kids mind you) people in wyoming are really STRONGLY against gay people (don't anyone say anything about The Incident, that's not the extent that we all go to to get our point across)

i'm not afraid of them, just don't want them around me because almost NONE of them realize that straight men don't wanna have to fight off the advances of guys. we DO have gay people that live in my town (like 5 or 6) and as long as they don't stare or look at someone in a way that makes them uncomfortable then it's all ok, one of them was checkin me out at mcdonalds one time (he's a manager) so i just shuffled behind my friends. personally i can't stand gay people because it's just not the natural way of life, as people here put it, don't enter the exit

Thrackan Solo
07-03-2003, 01:53 PM
I don't hate gay people, I just don't like homosexuality. I believe in the Bible and it's teachings strongly, and according to it, it's a sin, and I try my best not to live in sinful ways.

Thats my view, I dont hate people that are gay and beat them with sticks, but I think it is wrong to be homosexual, because my God says it is.
AND, I think it wrong when gay people dress like ep2 said and goes to Disneyland? Its not right to dress like that in a kids place and walk around like that.:tsk:

Weapon X
07-03-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
Thats my view, I dont hate people that are gay and beat them with sticks, but I think it is wrong to be homosexual, because my God says it is.
AND, I think it wrong when gay people dress like ep2 said and goes to Disneyland? Its not right to dress like that in a kids place and walk around like that.:tsk:

it IS wrong, i never had to see that as a kid and i don't want my kid to see it, so let's make it NOT acceptable, i flat out said "HEY FAGS! GO PUT SOME CLOTHES ON, THERE'S KIDS AROUND HERE!"

TheJackal
07-03-2003, 02:14 PM
In Canada Gay mariage is finally legal. thats right I said FINALLY. I support the gay community. I myself am straight but I have a bisexual friend and a few lesbian friends.

As for those comments that homosexuality is un-natural.... animals from nature have homosexual acts allmost all the time. Watch TLC or Discovery Channel and you will eventually see a show that mentions it.

As for ep2 Anakin's little tantrum (sp?) at the gay couple in Disney Land. Why did you scream at them? Because of your personnal views and your believes that these people are corrpution the young? Thats like saying TV makes children stupid and playing video games makes them want to kill people.

I was with my girlfriend in plublic recently and I was giving her a hug and a few kisses. A 30 year old women was waiting for the bus with us and asked us not to show that type of emotions publicly in front of her children. That pissed me off and I bluntly said to her: "what corrupts more your children. the fact you smoke cigarettes around them or the fact that I can show emotions to an other person"

Back to the homosexuality topic. I have a friend who IS homophobe. When he herd Texas and a few other southern states banned sodomy (homosexual act of sex), however the supereme court overruled the law he said "ah dammit".

I asked him if he was homosexual and he started saying BS like oh no. I dont hate them I just hate it when i see or think of them kissing of having sex. I got fed up and told him to move there if that is his attitude.

People, throughout history there has been a social change and debates that had to be done in courts and protests. Languages, religion and skin colours had been the previous hurdles in society. The next one is homosexuality. Face it. Accept it. If not... just live with it and leave the gays amd lesbians alone.

thank you
-jackal

The Count
07-03-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I don't hate gay people, I just don't like homosexuality. I believe in the Bible and it's teachings strongly, and according to it, it's a sin, and I try my best not to live in sinful ways.

I am not a "homophobe" because I am not scared of them, so don't point a finger at me saying I am.

I think this thread belongs in the senate chambers more then anywhere else.

Oh yeah the Bible thats a real compassionate book, according to them its wrong for pregnant women to have abortions to save themselves.

The Bible can't be interprated as literal, their homophobia was a result of the cultural norms of the time.

Darth Eggplant
07-03-2003, 03:17 PM
anything which occurs in nature
is therfore natural by absolute deffinition
now some people like spiders some are afraid of them
same can said for snakes, lizards or any animal
some people like mountains while others like beaches
its a question of choice and geographic location.
best thing to do is if you are phobic about something
stay away from it, or some might think as I do, try to
become aware of and unafraid of phobia by mastering it.
this does mean change your sexuality, it means be aware
of other possibilities and look at them objectively.
not every dog you meet is going to bite you
(unless it is a hot dog, they are just waiting to rise up and take their revenge) no seriously despite sexual orientation people are people, you should always remeber that before you judge too harshly someone else.

obi
07-03-2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Darth Murphy
Oh yeah the Bible thats a real compassionate book, according to them its wrong for pregnant women to have abortions to save themselves.

The Bible can't be interprated as literal, their homophobia was a result of the cultural norms of the time.

Homosexuality was one of the many reasons that God destroyed the cities of Saddom and Gamhorra.

I think that's proof enough that God is not for Homosexuality, not just the veiws of the time.

El Sitherino
07-03-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by TheJackal
In Canada Gay mariage is finally legal. thats right I said FINALLY. I support the gay community. I myself am straight but I have a bisexual friend and a few lesbian friends.

As for those comments that homosexuality is un-natural.... animals from nature have homosexual acts allmost all the time. Watch TLC or Discovery Channel and you will eventually see a show that mentions it.

As for ep2 Anakin's little tantrum (sp?) at the gay couple in Disney Land. Why did you scream at them? Because of your personnal views and your believes that these people are corrpution the young? Thats like saying TV makes children stupid and playing video games makes them want to kill people.

I was with my girlfriend in plublic recently and I was giving her a hug and a few kisses. A 30 year old women was waiting for the bus with us and asked us not to show that type of emotions publicly in front of her children. That pissed me off and I bluntly said to her: "what corrupts more your children. the fact you smoke cigarettes around them or the fact that I can show emotions to an other person"

Back to the homosexuality topic. I have a friend who IS homophobe. When he herd Texas and a few other southern states banned sodomy (homosexual act of sex), however the supereme court overruled the law he said "ah dammit".

I asked him if he was homosexual and he started saying BS like oh no. I dont hate them I just hate it when i see or think of them kissing of having sex. I got fed up and told him to move there if that is his attitude.

People, throughout history there has been a social change and debates that had to be done in courts and protests. Languages, religion and skin colours had been the previous hurdles in society. The next one is homosexuality. Face it. Accept it. If not... just live with it and leave the gays amd lesbians alone.

thank you
-jackal werd. and that lady you talked about. i had a similiar problem accept the lady and man were racial (my gf is japanese) they said "how could you do that in public, and furthermore how could you do it outside your race?"

I hate texas. this place sucks it's full of biggots. I have to help defend friends when these arrogant rednecks pick on them because they are arab,asian,gay,punks(like punk rockers, like me), and so many other things. of course like any other country the men don't care if it's lesbians they just hate gay men. this biggotry disturbs me alot. I'm very paranoid from all of this.

Thrackan Solo
07-03-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by ep2 Anakin
it IS wrong, i never had to see that as a kid and i don't want my kid to see it, so let's make it NOT acceptable, i flat out said "HEY FAGS! GO PUT SOME CLOTHES ON, THERE'S KIDS AROUND HERE!"

Thats a little harsh man, Im not afraid of homos just I dont feel comfortable. You shouldnt "persecute" them for it. Just maybe ask them nicely to maybe put something more appropriate on.

RoguePhotonic
07-03-2003, 05:25 PM
Saying oh that is gay...or something has really nothing to do with gay people....it's just a different way to use a word...

ShockV1.89
07-03-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by ep2 Anakin
it IS wrong, i never had to see that as a kid and i don't want my kid to see it, so let's make it NOT acceptable, i flat out said "HEY FAGS! GO PUT SOME CLOTHES ON, THERE'S KIDS AROUND HERE!"

Lucky I wasnt there, you would have gone home with a broken nose. :mad:

Yes, there are kids around. But you're making the problem even worse by shouting "fags" at the top of your lungs. There are kids around, they dont need to hear that. Also, you're drawing attention to the very people that you dont want kids looking at.

I have no problem with gay people. I dont mind if they wear tight clothes or funny hats, because they're just clothes. They're just catering to a certain fashion. You dont flip out and go screaming when a girl wears a tight pair of jeans and a tanktop.

I only get bothered when they go making out with each other in public, but not any more bothered than if two straight people were making out in public. I also dont really like it when they hit on me, but it's only happened once, and he was really just messing with my head (found out later he did like me, but he wasnt gonna make an issue because he knew I'm straight).

The idea that gay people would be "run out" of a town just for being gay is really a throwback to times of intolerance. Ignorant people doing ignorant things.

Such is life. :(

The Count
07-03-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Homosexuality was one of the many reasons that God destroyed the cities of Saddom and Gamhorra.

I think that's proof enough that God is not for Homosexuality, not just the veiws of the time.

Again that can't be taken literally, The Bible isn't word for word true and cannot be taken literally, that story was a myth, homosexuality isn't wrong, and accepting homosexuality is the greatest showing of Christian Love, that one is accepting something that has been so reviled over the years.

The Count
07-03-2003, 06:23 PM
ep2 Anakin your ignorance sickens me, it's that type of attitude that caused the Holocaust, my advice to you is the next time you want to give your opinion go jump off a cliff.


* Okay... I don't really like ep2 Anakin's hatred either, but since this thing landed in the Senate, please try to keep it civil, huh? --- Skin

Die Another Day
07-03-2003, 07:07 PM
Alright, before we begin, I think you all should know that I am a homosexual guy. There. I said it.

The Bible also teaches us about love, doesn't it? Now, if two people love each other enough, what should stop them from expressing themselves? If anything, gay relationships are much deeper and more meaningful than straight relationships. Think about it - how many straight guys have let their girlfriends go off saying "It's a girl thing"? When two guys are together, they both understand each other much better, making for a much more open and meaningful partnership.
People seem to have this preconception that homosexual men are only out for fun. They sleep around, not really having lasting relationships. Let me say that I've been with the same guy for three years now, and I love him more than anything in the world. There isn't a thing I would not do for him, hell, I would even die for him. Now, this sounds just like any other guy and girl falling in love to me. So what's the problem?

Hoexual men using their sexuality as some title, a way of gaining special treatment, is quite wrong. I'm nothing special, I'm just an ordinary guy. I have an ordinary job. I drive a middle-of-the-range car. I have an ordinary house. I never use the fact that I am gay in order to draw attention to myself or those around me. That is something I hate.

Someone mentioned gay guys chatting up straight ones. Here lies our problem (yes, I admit it). Straight guys walk down the street, checking out the girls who pass. It's exactly the same for homosexuals, except from the fact that we check out the guys. We can't help it, especially if we don't know if the guy is gay or not. My best friend is straight, and when I told him about my sexuality he gave me a huge hug... there is a big difference between close friendships and relationships, you see. My best friend trusts me not to do anything, and I trust him not to go ballistic.
Public displays of homosexual affection is something I try to steer clear of. When Anthony and myself are walking down a street, we won't hold hands or wear odd clothing. I don't want to start a confrontation because I don't want to offend anyone passing in the street, since I don't know if they are anti-gay or not. I'm not here to start a huge argument, and I'm not going out to find a fight. If people have a problem, I'll steer clear. My problem is that I'm as bent as one of Uri Geller's spoons - everyone seems to know I'm gay before I meet them! Ah well...

I'm hoping that the people in the LucasForums who have posted here won't do anything nasty in the street (or at DisneyLand, for that matter). I can understand parents wanting to protect their children, and I can understand how homosexuality can be viewed as unnatural. That's you're own perception. Me, I'm happy with my life and I'm madly in love with my boyfriend. What should be anyone's problem with that?

Thank you.

ShockV1.89
07-03-2003, 07:19 PM
Me, I'm happy with my life and I'm madly in love with my boyfriend. What should be anyone's problem with that?

And herein lies the most important thing of all. Ones happiness. If you're doing something or living a certain way that makes you happy, then how can anyone argue with it. And one certainly argue that love is wrong. Love is never wrong.

I think it's very cool and brave of a homosexual guy to be able to discuss something that so many ignorant people have such a huge problem with. Big props to you, Die Another Day, and any other homosexual people on these boards who choose to speak up.

Die Another Day
07-03-2003, 07:34 PM
Thanks, ShockV1.89. Kind words indeed.

Just in reference to your signature - Go Banana indeed.

See... a sense of humour after all.

Thrackan Solo
07-03-2003, 08:09 PM
Well, quite frankly, the Bible clearly says a man shall not sleep with a man the way a man sleeps with a woman.
Its wrong, its a sin. There is no way around it. Now I am not saying that I hate you DaD but I think what you are doing is sinful but I am not going to point at you and call you names.
But I really hate it when gay men hit on straight men.

RoguePhotonic
07-03-2003, 08:22 PM
What trips me out is what christian is to say that it's wrong?...people are born this way...there is nothing they can do about it....just like anyone who is straight cannot do anything about that...it's natural.....but the point is don't christians believe god has something to do with birth?...so if it makes you gay then???


I say "it" because if there was a god that's the only way you could describe it....

C'jais
07-03-2003, 08:24 PM
"I don't hate black people, I just don't like racial differences. I believe in the Bible and it's teachings strongly, and according to it, it's a sin, and I try my best not to live in sinful ways.

I am not a "racist" because I am not scared of them, so don't point a finger at me saying I am."

"people in wyoming are really STRONGLY against black people (...) personally i can't stand black people because it's just not the natural way of life"

"Thats my view, I dont hate people that are black and beat them with sticks, but I think it is wrong to be black, because my God says it is. Thats a little harsh man, Im not afraid of blacks just I dont feel comfortable. You shouldnt "persecute" them for it."

For the love of God, listen to yourselves. It's disgusting.

DAD, best of luck to your and your boyfriend. Hope you never meet guys like these.

EDIT: Thrackan, the Bible was clearly written by jingoist bigots. 'Coz God would never let such pathetic differences interfere with his master plan.

Breton
07-03-2003, 08:42 PM
Let me remind you christians that according to the Bible, all homosexuals and those who support them should be put to death. (Romans, 1:28-32).

Why do you have to hate homosexuality just because a book says that you should? And the same book also says you should kill everyone with different religious beliefs (Deuteronomy 17:2-7), it says that all who obeys the law are cursed (Galatians, 3:10) and it also says that God never forgive sins (Joshua, 24:19).

Please don't blindly follow the Bible. It is a book written by humans.

Well, quite frankly, the Bible clearly says a man shall not sleep with a man the way a man sleeps with a woman.

But that is impossible, isn't it? As far as I know, sleeping between men is mostly anal, wich is not the way a man sleeps with a woman.

So according to that quote from the Bible, homosexuality isn't really a sin.

------------------------------------------------------------

Alright, away with religious issues. I have no problems with homosexuality, and I think people should be allowed to love just the gender you want, really. And I really disapprove the "yelling at gays at Disneyland" thing, because that would only show the children that homosexuality is strange and bad, wich it isn't. There is no problem in children seeing that it actually is possible for two of the same gender to love each other.

However, I want homosexuals to remember that a child needs two parents, a father and a mother, and not two of either. That is just the way it is supposed to be, and I do not feel that homosexuals shoulød have equal rights in adopting children and the like.

But as I said, I have no problem with homosexuality.

C'jais
07-03-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by ep2 Anakin
we DO have gay people that live in my town (like 5 or 6)

5 or 6 in a whole town? Wow, that's fer sure a lot, bubba.




Many more. Maybe they're afraid of telling anyone?

and as long as they don't stare or look at someone in a way that makes them uncomfortable then it's all ok

I'd take what compliments I can get. I'd feel honoured if a guy hit on me - I'm either hot, or he finds me otherwise attractive. What's wrong with that?

However, I want homosexuals to remember that a child needs two parents, a father and a mother, and not two of either. That is just the way it is supposed to be, and I do not feel that homosexuals shoulød have equal rights in adopting children and the like.

Why that? Are you gonna start using the "unnatural" argument as well? You don't think homosexual parents can be as genuinely loving as heterosexual ones? You assume their kids will turn gay or socially mal-adjusted from it?

Meh.

Breton
07-03-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by C'jais

Why that? Are you gonna start using the "unnatural" argument as well?

No. I mean, it is unnatural, but what isn't? Computers are unnatural, so are guitars, dictionaries and religion. This has never been a problem to me.

You don't think homosexual parents can be as genuinely loving as heterosexual ones?

You don't think a single mother can be as genuinely loving as couples? You don't think a person who has gotten both legs and both arms chopped off can be as genuinely loving as people with their limbs safe in place? You don't think a drug abuser can be as genuinely loving as heterosexual ones?

This has nothing to do with feelings against homosexuals. This has something to do with the fact that children is better off with one father and one mother. It is wrong to make laws about homosexuals having equal rights to adobt children, simply because there is a difference. Not that the next statement have something to do with homosexuality, but would you let someone adobt a boy if you knew they were going to raise it like a girl, treat it like a girl, and so on? The same with girls if you knew they would raise him like a boy. I'm not saying homosexuals raise boys as girls, not at all, but certain things are better off the way they are meant to be. Homosexual couples have chosen to come together and love the same gender, but children can't choose to be raised by two of a kind. Just as a boy can't choose if he want to be raised as a girl, etc.

I guess most of us will agree that homosexuals raising a child will not be the same as a father and a mother raising a child. And I believe it is wrong to force children who have no choice to get raised by two fathers or two mothers.

You assume their kids will turn gay or socially mal-adjusted from it?

No.

obi
07-03-2003, 09:54 PM
I can use the Bible if I want to because in my eyes, it's the truth. It may not be in your case, but don't jump down my throat telling me that I am disgusting and all of that bolshevik.

I was pointing out that I do not condone homosexual acts, and I stated my reason why. Others say they don't care about homosexuality. Why ignore them? Because they agree with you? Please, don't turn this once-was calm debate into a free for all. Thank you.

As for you, ep2 An, whatch what you say, because talking like that could get you banned.

Redwing
07-03-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Homosexuality was one of the many reasons that God destroyed the cities of Saddom and Gamhorra.

I think that's proof enough that God is not for Homosexuality, not just the veiws of the time.

Firstly: It's "Sodom" and "Gomorrah". ^_~

Secondly: Not to shoot you down, obi, but here's why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and homosexuality was never mentioned as a reason.

And the LORD said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know."
Then the men (me: these "men" are the angels going to judge) turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD. And Abraham came near and said, "Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
So the LORD said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes."
Then Abraham answered and said, "Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose there were five less than the fifty righteous; would You destroy all of the city for lack of five?"
So He said, "If I find there forty-five, I will not destroy it."
And he spoke to Him yet again and said, "Suppose there should be forty found there?"
So He said, "I will not do it for the sake of forty."
Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Suppose thirty should be found there?"
So He said, "I will not do it if I find thirty there."
And he said, "Indeed now, I have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose twenty should be found there?"
So He said, "I will not destroy it for the sake of twenty."
Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but once more: Suppose ten should be found there?"
And He said, "I will not destroy it for the sake of ten." So the LORD went His way as soon as He had finished speaking with Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.


Of course, there were not even ten righteous people in all of Sodom, and a bunch of men from Sodom tried to gang-rape the angels.

But "homosexuality" was never mentioned as a reason that the cities were destroyed.

Think of that what you will, everyone.

(Oh, and, because I don't want to get really involved here, I have ignored the rest of the posts in this thread. Sorry ;))

C'jais
07-03-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by Breton
No. I mean, it is unnatural, but what isn't? Computers are unnatural, so are guitars, dictionaries and religion. This has never been a problem to me.

Unnatural this, unnatural that. Anything that exists is by definition natural so there's no point arguing that.

You don't think a single mother can be as genuinely loving as couples? You don't think a person who has gotten both legs and both arms chopped off can be as genuinely loving as people with their limbs safe in place? You don't think a drug abuser can be as genuinely loving as heterosexual ones?

Watch where you're going. You're saying homosexual people are lacking some sort of parental skill (which they're quite obviously not), or that they have some sort of handicap when it comes to raising kids, no matter how intelligent, caring or parental they may be. That's nonsense, and I'm thinking you know this already.

This has nothing to do with feelings against homosexuals. This has something to do with the fact that children is better off with one father and one mother. It is wrong to make laws about homosexuals having equal rights to adobt children, simply because there is a difference.

So it is about it being "unnatural", inherently wrong or otherwise following some dogma. Breton, you're smart enough to know this - what you just said made no more sense than any religious person's justification for his gay-hate.

but would you let someone adobt a boy if you knew they were going to raise it like a girl, treat it like a girl, and so on? The same with girls if you knew they would raise him like a boy. I'm not saying homosexuals raise boys as girls, not at all, but certain things are better off the way they are meant to be.

That's a ridiculous argument and you're well aware of it. "Meant to be"? C'mon, you can do better than that.

Would you let someone raise a kid if you knew there was an almost 50% chance that the parents would divorce withing the next 5 years? Do you know how many kids would give their arm for being adopted in a loving, caring family with no health problems, socially stable etc?

I guess most of us will agree that homosexuals raising a child will not be the same as a father and a mother raising a child. And I believe it is wrong to force children who have no choice to get raised by two fathers or two mothers.

I'm actually curious if it'd be possible to dig up some facts about this "wrongness".

Breton
07-03-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I can use the Bible if I want to because in my eyes, it's the truth. It may not be in your case, but don't jump down my throat telling me that I am disgusting and all of that bolshevik.


But what separates your truths from other truths? If someone seriously said that homosexuality is bad because it breaks with the Jedi Code, would you not find it funny that people takes Star Wars so seriously and use it in other debates?

BTW, please quote me where I said you were disgusting. Sorry, but I can't seem to find it. Neither have I ever meant it either.

I was pointing out that I do not condone homosexual acts, and I stated my reason why. Others say they don't care about homosexuality. Why ignore them? Because they agree with you?

Me, like many, find it difficult to argue with those who already agree with you ;)

I was merely pointing out that I did not understand why you thought the way you did, and I, like you, stated my reasons why.

Please, don't turn this once-was calm debate into a free for all. Thank you.

I haven't tried, nor will I try to turn this into a flame war. I was critisizing the credibility of the Bible, wich I do not consider a wrong act.

But sorry if I upset anyone, BTW. I am not critisizing any persons, even though I do critisize the credibility of their beliefs, wich I consider a normal action, and not something to get upset about.

obi
07-03-2003, 10:12 PM
Actually Breton, my post was mainly directed towards C'Jais.

"listen to yourselves, it's disgusting. DoD, good luck to you and your boyfriend, and I hope you never meet guys like these."

That's what set me off.

C'Jais, I didn't say I hope every homosexual gets shot in the foot by a runaway taxi driver. All I said was that I don't like homosexuality. I know several homosexuals within my own neighborhood, and if I see them walking down the street, and I am outside, I won't spit at them, yell at them, ot torment them, I will wave and them and say something like "have a nice day" as I would if it where anyone else. Some of my friends could be homosexual, and I wouldn't even know/care. Some of my friends smoke pot, and I don't like that, but that won't effect my friendship with them

C'jais
07-03-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I can use the Bible if I want to because in my eyes, it's the truth. It may not be in your case, but don't jump down my throat telling me that I am disgusting and all of that bolshevik.

Sorry for jumping the gun so quickly, but I'm tired of hearing Christians saying that "homosexuality is a chosen sin, not something inherently natural in the person".

Priests used "Biblical data" to support the oppression of blacks a mere 100 years ago, and this is no different.

Interpret the Bible the way you want, but try not to come across as a jingoist in front of innocent people.

The Bible is such a huge book - if it was up to me, I'd do some severe copy 'n pasting to interpret things the way I see them. If something didn't speak to my heart it surely wasn't inspired by God and thus should be ignored. Taking the whole thing at face value is naive, IMHO.

Breton
07-03-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
Unnatural this, unnatural that. Anything that exists is by definition natural so there's no point arguing that.


Guess that explains it better. But it has still no importance on my beliefs.

Watch where you're going. You're saying homosexual people are lacking some sort of parental skill (which they're quite obviously not), or that they have some sort of handicap when it comes to raising kids, no matter how intelligent, caring or parental they may be. That's nonsense, and I'm thinking you know this already.

If you believe that's what I was saying, I'm afraid you have misunderstood. I think that homosexuals can be just as good parents as anyone else, I just want you to remember that it is the children who have first priority here, and not the parents.

So it is about it being "unnatural", inherently wrong or otherwise following some dogma. Breton, you're smart enough to know this - what you just said made no more sense than any religious person's justification for his gay-hate.

Each adoption case is unique, and each adoption case should be treated uniquely. I do not want homosexuals to have less right than heterosexuals, but the equality thing does not fit into a good system, where everything has to be treated induvidially.

That's a ridiculous argument and you're well aware of it. "Meant to be"? C'mon, you can do better than that.

Would you let someone raise a kid if you knew there was an almost 50% chance that the parents would divorce withing the next 5 years? Do you know how many kids would give their arm for being adopted in a loving, caring family with no health problems, socially stable etc?

I have already stated my opinions about divorce in another thread some time ago, so I guess it will be little point in telling them again.

Commenting this would again bring me back to the previous answer, the ting about each case being treated induvidially. We both know that divorce, health problems, socially unstableness also happens in homosexual couples.

Look, I'm not saying that homosexuality causes bad parents. I am only saying that it is IMO a bit naive not having it in mind in adoption cases at all. Homosexual couples are not the same as heterosexual couples, and must be treated so, for good or bad.

Inviduality is important.

Dagobahn Eagle
07-03-2003, 10:56 PM
I personally dont think its wrong, but i do sometimes find it disturbing to see Gay people kissing......
May I ask why? I seriously want to know if you feel that way because someone told you it's gross or if it is your own idea.

I assume you dislike female best friends who kiss too? No? So then is it about the fact that they are homosexuals or the fact that they are best friends? If two boys were just friends and they both even had girlfriends, and they kissed, would it still be gross to you?

Is it gross to you when two girlfriends kiss only, but not when two female best friends kiss?

I hate it when a "gay" harrasses a "straight" boy.
So do I. But guys harass straight people too, and "homosexuals" are less likely to molest children than "heterosexuals".

Homosexuality was one of the many reasons that God destroyed the cities of Saddom and Gamhorra.

I think that's proof enough that God is not for Homosexuality, not just the veiws of the time.
The Bible is FULL OF contradictions. According to it, God kills every first-born in Egypt and then drowns a battalion of the Egyptian army. Then he tells Moses that it is wrong to kill.

I urge you to question your ideals. Loving homosexuals will not land you in Hell. Do not follow the Bible, or any other leader, without being critical. Ever.

When it comes to this stuff, my school is great. You can be totally open and nobody is going to come after you for it (my observation is that nobody is against it but the christian fundamentalists). A female friend of mine just fell in love with a girl, and wasn't bullied or harassed. Okay, she was teased by us, but we teased her (in a friendly way of course, we are friends) when she fell in love with a guy too, so it does not count, does it?

What I have seen is that tolerance breeds tolerance. If you are the only person in a class who hates "gay people", you will most likely end up giving up your bad beliefs because everyone else will stop you and put you straight if you keep on hating boyfriends.

Hate against homosexuality is thaught. Think about another thing I've noticed: Little children don't only think "homosexual" relationships are gross, they also think that boy-girl-relationships are gross. If a 7-year old sees a girl tounge-kiss a guy, he'll think it's gross and turn away. Then they slowly learn by themselves that there's nothing wrong with it, because they aren't thaught otherwise. Homosexuality is the same way. If children saw more "gays" in the street, and were never told that "gays" were different, there'd be less or no homophobia. Don't even tell people it's normal. That's the last thing you should do. If you're questioned about "why that guy kissed that other guy", say something liked "what's so odd about that?", not "yes, it's weird, but tolerate it". The bold part is what sticks to the child's mind, not the underlined part.

Lastly, I advise you to read the book called the Wave. It'll teach you that it's more easy than you think to give people bad attitudes about stuff and plant cruel ideas in peoples' minds.

I can use the Bible if I want to because in my eyes, it's the truth. It may not be in your case, but don't jump down my throat telling me that I am disgusting and all of that bolshevik.
Why not? You said homosexuality was wrong.. hypocrite.

No. I mean, it is unnatural, but what isn't? Computers are unnatural, so are guitars, dictionaries and religion. This has never been a problem to me.
No, it's not "unnatural" more than a Jew or an African with dark skin is unnatural. Love to humans is a feeling that's supposed to arise happiness, lest homosexuality and bisexuality and fetishism wouldn't exist (as these do not lead to children).

I guess most of us will agree that homosexuals raising a child will not be the same as a father and a mother raising a child. And I believe it is wrong to force children who have no choice to get raised by two fathers or two mothers.
Why? Joint custody is wrong and harmful to a child, but still legal. And the government does nothing to stop it.

Children living with single parents don't live lives that are as good as the lives of children living with both parents, yet, the governmnent does nothing to bring the divorce rate down. There's no mandatory education on Family Development.

Pedophilias, rapists, and murderers certainly don't occur to me as the best parents, but sure, let them adopt children :p. Or am I the only one who thinks it skewed that you think a killer and a rapist should be given a chance, and not two boys who have done nothing wrong?

Name one study that shows that it's bad for a child to live with two moms. I personally know that "gay" relationships on average are more stable than "straight" relationships, which would mean they would raise the child in a better way, not in a worse way.

I wish the US governmnent and other governments would stop being so damn facist and stop pulling assumptions out of thin air. Hell, Americans and Europeans used to think it was wrong for light-skinned people to live with dark-skinned people, didn't they? It's all about ignorance and fear for my god's sake! Oh, and the first amendment (free religion) grants homosexuals the right to marry, no matter what the Bible says. Marriage is a religious act.

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
07-03-2003, 11:14 PM
Regarding the use of the word "gay". My brother and sister are both gay, and I brought this topic up to them. They both agree that there are two seperate meanings for the word gay. There is gay, meaning something that isn't good. And there is gay, refering to homosexuals. And they both use both terms. So hense, there really isn't anything wrong with using the word "gay" in a negative or possitive manner. Just no gay bashing.

Darklighter
07-03-2003, 11:25 PM
Absolutely Breton, that is very much the case here.

Individuality - The aggregate of qualities and characteristics that distinguish one person or thing from others; character: choices that were intended to express his individuality.

Now, I could get very riled up here about this particular topic, as I have very strong views on it, but I have found it increasingly interesting scrolling down this page as to how different people view the subject. They each have their certain individual opinions, and must be respected seperately.

Obviously, from just glancing at this thread, homosexuality is a very controversial topic nowadays, but it is more openly expressed, more freely discussed, and generally, more widespread. We have lived in a society for thousands of years in which concrete rules are set to ensure a sense of continuity and order. Homosexuality is one "breach" of "God's code" that has gradually become a bigger issue today.

Now, the first problem I have is with that word "breach". Are we saying that the same rules that apply to crimes such as murder and theft should be treated the same way as homosexuality? Probably not that bluntly, but the question remains: is being gay in fact a crime against God and society?

We live in a world, although built on rules, has developed as of late, breaking boundaries, opening up to new possibilities. The advancing surge of technology has established that our world is constantly changing in order to broaden our horizans. We are gradually moving away from this sense of order, into a new realm of emotional expression. As for the whole religious issue, and concerns about God's "beliefs" - I don't feel comfortable to comment, since I am not very religious, and probably won't understand the importance of these "rules" to those who are.

I believe 'Jais when he says that "anything that exists is by definition natural so there's no point arguing that". Homosexuality is in fact, I believe, a natural development of emotion and sexuality amongst both humans and other animals (which has been proven). Just like we evolved from ape-like beings into the dominant species of this planet, we continue to develop both physically and mentally, adopting different and individual perspectives on certain topics (in this case, sexuality). I don't think it would be any use denying the fact that homosexuality is frowned upon because some people are afraid of breaking this rule that has been set against the role of evolution. Believe it or not, being gay does not have to be defined as "abnormal", because it is normal (if normal means a natural course), because it is simply a slight change in the way we view this thing we call "sexuality".

As for the whole "homosexuals don't make as good parents as heterosexuals" - how can you judge people so generally and stereotypically? Being a good parent has absolutely nothing, or very little to do with which gender you are more attracted to. Some heterosexuals are just as bad, or maybe worse as parents than some homosexuals - sexuality has no bearing on the morality of a person.

I think what gets to me is the way in which people are labelled and judged so harshly, dependant on so minor details. The main concern here shouldn't be as to what religion someone belongs to, or what colour their skin is, or what sexuality they prefer, but based on the personality of that particular individual. Everyone is different, you cannot just bung people into groups.

Let me ask you, what about bi-sexuals? Do you have the same view about them as you do about homosexuals? To be attracted to someone is not a disease, you must consider the whole spectrum, as there are different degrees of emotion, not set groups. Mankind has done a good job at categorising life under numerous headings...I believe that we should shed this ordered and strict view on such topics, and focus on what really matters. We are all individuals - we should not be judged so harshly. Our lives are all about making choices, and some just make different ones than others.


Then again, that is just my own opinion, so don't hurt me because of it ^^; I apologise for the rather lengthy post XD

obi
07-03-2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Why not? You said homosexuality was wrong.. hypocrite.


Because I believe it is wrong. How am I being a hypocrit for stating my opinion? That is the exact OPPOSITE of a hypocrit.

Jah Warrior
07-04-2003, 12:56 AM
to be honest i have better things to do with my time than worry about someone elses love life.

i have gay friends and as far as i can tell they arent so different to straight folk, at the end of the day people just wanna be happy.

the thing that can be annoying though is over the top campness and mincing around like a fairy. It just seems that sometimes these camp dudes are "trying" to be as gay as they possibly can be.

manly lesbians do scare the crap out of me though :D

Lord Siraious
07-04-2003, 01:42 AM
I havent read anyone elses reply and I'm not going to I'm just going to state mine. First of All I do not hate anyone.

My opinion on Homosexuals or bisexuals well they are people and deserve the same repect I would give to any other person. I jugde people on their actions and word not their preferences. Ido however believe that homosexuality is unnatural. The main reason i believe this is beacuse I've read somewhere that their was studies originally when homosexual started openly comming out that showed clear evidence of mixed up Brain chemistry compared to heterosexual. If someone could find these studies or studies that disprove it please post it so I could read it.

Second reason I think its unnatural is because of the position many different Bibles have on homosexuality. Yes I'm religious but I do not believe in ANY organised religion as I consider that they are ALL corupt and no longer do as they preach!

Anyway thats my say.

TheJackal
07-04-2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
But I really hate it when gay men hit on straight men.

Hey, if a guy goes up to you and buys you a beer, dont complain. its a free beer. and if you find it annoying then just maybe you just felt what most girls feel when a guy hits on them, especially at bars. not every girls go to bars to get hitched, they go there to have fun with friends.

As for the constant comments about homosexuality being unatural. how about this:

Your O' Mighty God has created the girafe. The wonderfull girafe with that o so tall neck. The Girafe is known to have homosexual sex quite often. Same with primates.

So if god created the girafes and apes and allows them to instinctivly (sp?) have gay sex, then why would he make it a"sin" for man kind to be gay?

I support the homosexual community world wide. I have friends who invited me to the Pride parades and I went to support them. So if I have sin according to your God then I show him the finger and tell him to get off my lawn. I'm sorry to sound so pissed off but I am. Who gives the right for an organised religious community to dictate how the life of someone who is NOT part of THAT community that they will burn in the afterlife.

And as for Die Another Day, I support you. and I admire your courage to stand before the people who hate you. Just like Rosa Parks did when she took a seat at the front of a bus. Be Proud. And I am curious, how does your country treat the homosexual community? I know Canada, Belguim and one other country (dont remember which) allows gay mariage. But how does the UK treat this case? I know Europe is a lot more open to change and differences. But what is its stance on homosexuality? I'm curious.

Darth Homer
07-04-2003, 02:56 AM
I'm not jumping in any debates, I'm just stating my opinion, take it for what it's worth...

God taught us, above all, to love each other. I believe it went something like "Love thy neighbor as you love thyself." That is the overwhelming message I get from the Bible. Love unconditionally.

We must also remember, as others have pointed out, that the Bible IS a book writen by MAN from stories passed down for years. The Bible has been through many revisions to suit different people (why do you think the newest interpretation is called the King James Version?). Stories can be easily altered to suit the views and beliefs of the people telling the stories. And as such, you must make your own interpretations. Arguing over "What the Bible means" is like arguing over what your favorite food is. Some people will agree and many others will have a different opinion. It is pointless, because it means different things to different people and can be used to prove many different and conflicting points.

Believe what you will and no one should/does have the right to tell you to do otherwise.

Weapon X
07-04-2003, 03:55 AM
these forums are about expressing views and opinions, that's what i did and anyone who doesn't like it can sit down and shut up, that's one of my personal feelings

Die Another Day already sent me a PM saying that i should think before i say, too late, i already said it and that's what i feel, i'm not going to church up my beliefs for the best interest of this community when my HOME community has lots of influences (teens mostly) that go against gays, i have seen a few adults but not many, especially not my parents, but then again, i'm not them.

i didn't mean for my words to be offensive but i will not apologize for them, that's my statement and those are my beliefs, gays are fine as long as they don't hit on me or anything like that. these guys were standing out in the crowd and wonder why they get riddled like that? big mystery (ya right) if gays don't want to be made fun of or belittled then they need to understand that walking around looking like they're gonna film a porno is NOT a good way to go about mickey's house

EDIT: for the record, i'm not a homophobe, my freshman year of high school i dove w/a kid (we all knew he was gay but he denied it) and i was friends w/him, probably still would be but we just quit talking to each other, and also, my oldest bro and only sis have like 4-5 friends who are gay and i get along w/them just fine BECAUSE they don't stare at me like they wanna do me right there and they just act and dress like normal people, so THOSE kinds of gay people are alright

SkinWalker
07-04-2003, 04:48 AM
The thing I've noticed about lesbians is that the ones in real life look nothing like the ones in the movies we used to watch when I was in the Army.... they're a little more.... manly. :D


All in all, after reading this rather lengthy thread, I see that we are all discussing how we, as individuals, feel. The sentiments of our fellow persons, in particular, homosexual persons, aren't really the issue of discussion.

We worry about how we feel. I see anger, hatred, guilt (about faith or about the treatment of gays), frustration, and even dispair.

All of our feelings that reflect this are based on the constructs of our cultures and family values... religion is a construct of culture, so it's included in that description.

What we didn't do is look at this objectively. Who cares if its "unnatural" or whether some people are born that way (which there is evidence to support this, btw) or whether god likes it or not? These are all irrelevant.

What is relevant, is what affect homosexuality has upon a society.

Can it destroy a society? Sure. But only if it were contagious. Then it could eliminate our species ability to reproduce. There is absolutely no indication that homosexuality is a contagion, so we can throw that out.

Can it affect family values? I don't see how. If you raise you children to embrace cultures that run counter to your own, is this not a positive value? Not being a contagion, it is unlikely that my children will catch it. If I teach my children that sexual intercourse at an early age is inappropriate and/or risky behavior, does that not include homosexual contact? Is open display of affection b/w genders acceptable in public? Then why should it be different when it is within genders? (no matter how you answered the former question, the answer to the latter is still relevant).

Can it benefit a society? I don't see how a society cannot benefit. Population growth is problematic in many ways, so a significant percentage of a population that is not reproducing is beneficial. For some reason, a trends in homosexuality seem to parallel, at least loosely, the art districts of many cities: their income and aesthetic benefits are obvious. Regardless, as an employed member of a society, they offer revenue in the way of taxes, consumer goods purchase, and service industry trade.

The classic idea of the homosexual being the cause/perpetuator of the AIDS crisis is simply not true. While the risks in this community are higher, there is a quick rising trend in the African American community, particularly among socio-economically deprived African American males in urban or semi-urban areas.

Discard all the nonesense that's floating around your brains due to society, culture, family and religion (each of these also has good values to offer... keep them, just discard the nonsense) and use some critical thinking skills. Analyze... scrutinize.... question... then, and only then, decide for yourself.

It is truly sad how hatred begets hatred.

Jah Warrior
07-04-2003, 09:46 AM
wholeheartedly agreed.

I would like to add:-
The bible(s) and religions for that matter are responsible for more biggotry and hatred than anything else on earth.

The sooner the religious zealots get it into their thick heads that most of the bible is fiction and misguided at best then we can start truly treating people fairly and with equallity.

btw, i dunno who said it and its unimportant, but the dude that feels uncomfortable when gay men look at him, should probably re-examine his sexuality. Personally i would feel flattered if a man or a woman was checking me out.

for the record there are gay animals too, so to say its un-natural is utter bollocks.

Personally i find homosexuality interesting, i really can not see how a man could find another man attractive, for that matter how do women find men attractive?

Also its fair to say that gay people have had to put up with a lot of crap from the ignorant and as such they are brave people for being able to embrace their true self in a world that is clearly against them.

Bob Gnarly
07-04-2003, 10:27 AM
I don't want anyone to get mad at me so im gonna be very vague, I have truly never seen a gay man, ive only seen lesbians at my high school, some people speculate on this one guy but im not sure and for the most part hes really nice. Anyways from what i see on Tv and hear gay people are not gonna rape you or touch you up if yur not one going to agree to it, there people liek you or me, just different sexual prefrence. I think people should just drop the subject and start to concern them selves on more important issues like the State of emerrgency in america, Kids being kidnapped, alot of kids. anyways for the record I'm not Gay, I'm not against Gays, alot of people think if your not against them your one of them but thats not my case, and im not gonna get into any Bible quotes or anything because first, the bible does say alot of things, some even contradicting itself and i never read the bible i only heard people read passages.

•-BLaCKouT-•
07-04-2003, 12:12 PM
Okay, I'm going to keep this brief, because it's winding me up just thinking about it.
I freely admit now I've only read about halfway down the thread, I just need to post my feelings now. So I apologise if my points have been made by anyone in the last few posts.

Mainly, the Disneyland thing.
As has already been expressed, what kind of action is that?
1. You can't stop people going to a 'family' place because they happen to be gay. These people have families too, you know? Even if they're not there with their families, they so still know what families are and how to conduct themselves in public. Unlike other people.
2. Who are you to say what people can wear? If a bodybuilder is wearing a 'stereotypical' muscle-vest, or a punk is wearing spikes and torn jeans, do you start yelling at them? Social groups are identifiable in many ways, one of the primary ones is how they dress. As has been said, you don't complain when you see a girl in a bikini do you?
3. Even if they were kissing in public, it's not like they're having sex on the floor in front of Mickey Mouse is it? Their behaviour is no worse than that of any couple who are showing love and affection for each other. Homosexual couples can remain in loving, monogomous relationships you know.
straight men don't wanna have to fight off the advances of guys
4. Do you realise how vain it is to think "Oh, there's a gay man, he must fancy me. He's probably thinking about having sex with me right now."
Do you instantly lust after every female you see? If you do find them attractive, do you then feel compelled to go and hit on them, regardless of how they are reacting?
No.

Next up, a lot of people are saying "I'm not scared of gay people":
ho·mo·pho·bi·a
n.
1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.
Although the 'phobia' is a part of the word, it isn't just being scared of gay people, that would be ridiculous: Who's scared of plumbers? Or actors?
As the definition, it's the general negative attitude to the gay community.
A lot of which is in this thread. :mad:

And lastly:
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
Well, quite frankly, the Bible clearly says a man shall not sleep with a man the way a man sleeps with a woman.
This is the Bible that told us we'd go to Hell if we ate meat on a Friday isn't it?
I always understood the principles of Christianity to be about fellowship and getting on with each other. But that's another thread.
I don't know how many of you outside the UK will have heard about this, but I found this story to be very interesting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3010410.stm).
Basically, Rowan Williams is set to be ordained Bishop of Reading in October, and half the country's up in arms because he's gay. Bear in mind that by the time the plans went ahead for this, it had been approved by The Queen. Even the Queen of England has a sensible attitude towards this, and look at her reputation for being staid and old-fashioned! The man loves God enough to devote his life spreading the faith, and that's not good enough for half of the church-leaders.
Anyone want to buy tickets for a stoning? :rolleyes:

Anyways, I've ranted on for far too long on this. Thanks for reading. I only want to add that I do respect all of your opinions, including the ones that I don't/can't agree on. At least you're making your voice heard, and that's what it's about.
Big peace all,
B.

El Sitherino
07-04-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by ep2 Anakin
these forums are about expressing views and opinions, that's what i did and anyone who doesn't like it can sit down and shut up, that's one of my personal feelings

Die Another Day already sent me a PM saying that i should think before i say, too late, i already said it and that's what i feel, i'm not going to church up my beliefs for the best interest of this community when my HOME community has lots of influences (teens mostly) that go against gays, i have seen a few adults but not many, especially not my parents, but then again, i'm not them.

i didn't mean for my words to be offensive but i will not apologize for them, that's my statement and those are my beliefs, gays are fine as long as they don't hit on me or anything like that. these guys were standing out in the crowd and wonder why they get riddled like that? big mystery (ya right) if gays don't want to be made fun of or belittled then they need to understand that walking around looking like they're gonna film a porno is NOT a good way to go about mickey's house

EDIT: for the record, i'm not a homophobe, my freshman year of high school i dove w/a kid (we all knew he was gay but he denied it) and i was friends w/him, probably still would be but we just quit talking to each other, and also, my oldest bro and only sis have like 4-5 friends who are gay and i get along w/them just fine BECAUSE they don't stare at me like they wanna do me right there and they just act and dress like normal people, so THOSE kinds of gay people are alright they should have the right to wear what they want. i hate people telling me that i shouldn't have a mohawk and wear raggy clothes. this is what i like wearing. it's comfortable to me. it expresses my attitude and my personality. i belive i should have the right to wear what i want. it's not like they were walking around naked "riding" eachother. so stop bitching about it please. and like others have said you brought more attention to it bye yelling. not to mention you are just escalating the problems of the world.



just so you know. I'm a punker. i wear spiked bracelets, torn jeans, spiked leather jackets, i used to have a mohawk until i needed to shave it off to get hired for a job. but i still spike up my hair. i have a chain belt. if you ever told me to wear something else i'd tell you to rethink your life. stop making things negative. be happy. i do and i'm a better person for it. i don't fixate on the negatives.

Homuncul
07-04-2003, 12:30 PM
for the record there are gay animals too, so to say its un-natural is utter bollocks.

Please name one, if not some unpleasent mutation, I would agree with you then. I heard there are only sexual and asexual replication, gay animals can't replicate themselves, while everything we know bout nature says that it wants to consume and multiply, if it doesn't it's eliminated by natural selection. Do gay animals gene replicate themselves, I think they have no such opportunity, so they live and die and nothing more.

Thrackan Solo
07-04-2003, 12:55 PM
The Bible is FULL OF contradictions. According to it, God kills every first-born in Egypt and then drowns a battalion of the Egyptian army. Then he tells Moses that it is wrong to kill.

It is wrong for humans to kill.But God made us, why cant God take us away? I believe that whatever happens is for Gods will and is good in the end for Christians.

•-BLaCKouT-•
07-04-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
I believe that whatever happens is for Gods will and is good in the end for Christians.

Well gay people 'happened' therefore that is God's will.
He may have destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah, but he hasn't spent every day since killing people simply for being gay.
Therefore it is God's will that there are gay people. QED.

Accept it as such.

B.

Thrackan Solo
07-04-2003, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by BLaCKouT_1138
Well gay people 'happened' therefore that is God's will.
He may have destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah, but he hasn't spent every day since killing people simply for being gay.
Therefore it is God's will that there are gay people. QED.

Accept it as such.

B.

No, times have changed since the Old Testament. God doesnt intervene as much as he used to.

And gay bashing just happened so accept it as such:rolleyes: You can use that argument for abuot anything

El Sitherino
07-04-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Homuncul
Please name one, if not some unpleasent mutation, I would agree with you then. I heard there are only sexual and asexual replication, gay animals can't replicate themselves, while everything we know bout nature says that it wants to consume and multiply, if it doesn't it's eliminated by natural selection. Do gay animals gene replicate themselves, I think they have no such opportunity, so they live and die and nothing more.
frogs and toads can reproduce having gay sex. but only on rare occasions such as harvest moons and drought. watch jurassic park. also they have gay sex store the sperm transmorph into a "female"(they actually just form eggs to be fertalized)

•-BLaCKouT-•
07-04-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
No, times have changed since the Old Testament. God doesnt intervene as much as he used to.
Correct. Times have changed since the New Testament as well.

Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
And gay bashing just happened so accept it as such:rolleyes:
I don't share your religious beliefs Thrackan. Therefore I don't have to accept 'God's Will'.
'Gay bashing' is wrong. Period.
It's up there with racism.

B.

Die Another Day
07-04-2003, 03:01 PM
First of all, I know that what I am about to say will offend many people in here. I don't care - almost half of you have succeded in offending me in this thread, and I'm merely stating an opinion.

The Bible is a load of rubbish.

I'm not just saying this because you are using it to back up your arguments, oh no. I've always held religion in the exact same view - rubbish. I don't believe in a God, and I don't worship or practice any faith. So, anyone coming to me arguing with religion can walk straight back out again... bye now.

As for raising children who have two fathers, I think that could be viewed as totally wrong by a majority. However, here in Great Britain, a gay couple have adopted a child successfully. I can't see how this affects the child in the long run - after all, you are BORN homosexual, so what can having two fathers do to you? Nothing. Myself and Anthony have no plans to start a family, and I can't see that changing. I don't really get on well with kids, anyway (they vomit, cry and cost money).
The situation in Great Britain is one of tolerance. There are more 'gay bars' here in London than you can shake a stick at (excuse the pun). Generally, people don't mind, or care, what goes on behind closed doors, as long as it doesn't affect them. I can live with that. My family have been a great support, especially my mother, who didn't like the fact at first but realised I was still her son at the end of the day, whatever my sexuality.

Oh, and Jah Warrior, I have to agree - lesbians scare the hell out of me! At least I have the sense to sleep with men... no offence to any lesbians out there, I'm sure you're perfectly nice people.

I'm getting the general picture that many of you simply don't believe in homosexuality. It's not that you hate gay people, and well done you. I can see that, if your religion says it's wrong, you won't agree with the concept. Fine, absolutely fine... just remember that not all gay guys are like me - I know a guy who is deeply religious and homosexual at the same time. He gets along perfectly, many of the people at his church accepting him for what he is - a fellow man.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who you love. You could sleep with guys or girls, but it's the person inside the counts. Anthony is a funny, charming, generous and happy person, but just because he's homosexual shouldn't automatically make him evil, or wrong, or a criminal of some sort. No-one here knew I was gay until yesterday, and you didn't need to... people were still nice to me, joking and playing the odd RPG. At the end of the day, I'm still me. No change. Me.

Oh, and another preconception that can be destroyed here and now - just because I'm gay, doesn't make me camp or woman-like. We don't all run round wearing flowery dresses shouting in high-pitched voices. Before I told people, no-one had the slightest idea that I was a homosexual. I actually walked into a bar once (exclusively for gay men) and found everyone staring at me, thinking I wasn't gay at all.
I love beer, I watch football, I know all about cars and nothing about gardening. Still a guy, not some dangerous half-breed.

I do find it funny, though - my favourite film character, James Bond, is possibly the straightest man in the universe! Interesting, no?

ShockV1.89
07-04-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Die Another Day
There are more 'gay bars' here in London than you can shake a stick at (excuse the pun).

Ouch. :p Sorry, no excuse. :D

C'jais
07-04-2003, 04:43 PM
As for Anakin's fear of gays hitting on straight men, I'd say the fear is unfounded. Would you hit on lesbians as well? What if you were getting all worked up over girl and in the middle of the conversation, she calmly says that her sexual preference unfortunately excludes you - would you then politely exit, or continue pestering her?

...'Coz I can you tell you right now that that's what gay men feel about you, and they sure aren't monstrous rapists, just like you aren't either.


Now, for the "unnatural" argument: Imagine if you and your heterosexuality were in the minority. Everyone around you was telling you that it's unnatural to love the opposite sex. But you couldn't understand it. They wanted you to love men, even though you had a girlfriend and couldn't imagine being with other men. You had always felt this way, even though all the movies and books had told you it was the other way around. It is unnatural, they say - people should stick to their own sex, just like they had always done. Yet you still couldn't understand it, it just felt awkward to love other men that way - like being told that rocks are indeed a nourishing food source. It feels so wrong, on a gut level, to eat those rocks and love those men.

That's how those unnatural, other people are feeling about this injustice. It's very natural for them, just like you couldn't possibly take someone serious if they told you to quit loving girls and start loving boys.

Dagobahn Eagle
07-04-2003, 08:25 PM
Because I believe it is wrong. How am I being a hypocrit for stating my opinion? That is the exact OPPOSITE of a hypocrite.
Because first you bashed someone else, namely the people who are attracted to their own gender, and then you react to C'Jais when he attacks you for it.

If you attacked someone, you've got to tolerate that someone attacks you. If you can't stand the fact that people are going to answer you, don't post.

Now, for the "unnatural" argument: Imagine if you and your heterosexuality were in the minority. Everyone around you was telling you that it's unnatural to love the opposite sex. But you couldn't understand it. They wanted you to love men, even though you had a girlfriend and couldn't imagine being with other men. You had always felt this way, even though all the movies and books had told you it was the other way around. It is unnatural, they say - people should stick to their own sex, just like they had always done. Yet you still couldn't understand it, it just felt awkward to love other men that way - like being told that rocks are indeed a nourishing food source. It feels so wrong, on a gut level, to eat those rocks and love those men.
Beutiful.

I believe that one of the things that should be done is that should be done is ban teaching in christian private schools about the negative parts of "gayness". Sure, they are allowed to teach the Bible, but look at laws that forbid a teacher to say bad things about different ethnic groups and culture groups, such as African-Americans. How long after it came out do you think people would start reacting when it came out? Private school or not, the teacher would get attacked for breaking the law by insulting an ethnic group -[i]even if he was quoting the Bible or the writings of some other religious/sect. So how can a christian fanatic teacher get away with subtly teaching kids to hate homosexuals?

Name one teacher who's gotten away with being reported for saying stuff like "all Nigerians are going to Hell for being Nigerians"?

PS: Yes, I heard about the bishop in the UK. I also heard about a minister in Norway (not as in priest-minister, but a minister in a political party;)) who had managed to rise to the powerful position of finance minister in his party. He even maintained this position after marrying a man (which is legal in Norway).

All I have to say is this: Aside from our right to excersise religion, I cannot see how the government thinks it's any of their business to dig around in our religious/private life. What's next, a law that forbids Muslims from refusing to faste? A law that forbids Buddhists and Hindus from eating meat?

Redwing
07-04-2003, 11:11 PM
This thread is dragging me in, even though I know I should stay away. ;)

Originally posted by Homuncul
Please name one, if not some unpleasent mutation, I would agree with you then. I heard there are only sexual and asexual replication, gay animals can't replicate themselves, while everything we know bout nature says that it wants to consume and multiply, if it doesn't it's eliminated by natural selection. Do gay animals gene replicate themselves, I think they have no such opportunity, so they live and die and nothing more.

http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

(note I don't agree with everything on that page, like that human beings are animals, but it's got what you asked for ;))

Thrackan Solo
07-05-2003, 02:19 AM
The Bible is a load of rubbish.
I'm not just saying this because you are using it to back up your arguments, oh no. I've always held religion in the exact same view - rubbish. I don't believe in a God, and I don't worship or practice any faith. So, anyone coming to me arguing with religion can walk straight back out again... bye now.

If your going to say that the Bible is rubbish and what your saying is you dont like Christians then what is so wrong with me saying being gay is rubbish?
:confused:


Oh, and Jah Warrior, I have to agree - lesbians scare the hell out of me! At least I have the sense to sleep with men... no offence to any lesbians out there, I'm sure you're perfectly nice people.

How can you cry about people bashing you and not accepting you when you dont even like lesbians and say they are scary. Dont be a hypocrite.:rolleyes:

Arkum
07-05-2003, 03:19 AM
i dont like gays. i mean, its just isck. but im not homophobic. if a kid is gay, so what? i mean, os what if he is, thats his lifestyle and i got my own.

what im trying to say is even if u dont like someone for who they are, they still deserve some dignity.

ShockV1.89
07-05-2003, 04:34 AM
I dunno, dude, there are some lesbians I've met that freak me out too. I mean, mostly the real man-hating lesbians. Those ones that spike their hair and look like guys. Several I've met always acted really hostile towards me and any other man I saw them encounter.

Certainly not downing lesbians. But I'd rather have a guy wanting to sleep with me than a girl wanting to kill me. ;)

Bob Gnarly
07-05-2003, 09:26 AM
Not true InsaneSith, i know 2 lesbians and there nice quit people who never speak a word, just cause you a lesbian or gay doesn't mean you can't act like a guy/girl.

Jah Warrior
07-05-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Homuncul
Please name one, if not some unpleasent mutation, I would agree with you then. I heard there are only sexual and asexual replication, gay animals can't replicate themselves, while everything we know bout nature says that it wants to consume and multiply, if it doesn't it's eliminated by natural selection. Do gay animals gene replicate themselves, I think they have no such opportunity, so they live and die and nothing more.

well i must say that i have no idea what the above means when translated to english, however:-

there are gay chimpanzees, horses, dogs... to name but a few. Its widely documented and has in fact been the subject of numerous natural history documentaries.

El Sitherino
07-05-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
frogs and toads can reproduce having gay sex. but only on rare occasions such as harvest moons and drought. watch jurassic park. also they have gay sex store the sperm transmorph into a "female"(they actually just form eggs to be fertalized) once again. hom.. i beleieve you have been owned.:)

•-BLaCKouT-•
07-05-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Arkum
i dont like gays. i mean, its just isck. but im not homophobic.

This is my favourite one so far!
I do get what you're saying about dignity, and letting someone lead their life an'all. But you've got to admit you didn't choose those words very well.

dykes are bullish man hating lesbians.
I think InsaneSith meant the term 'dykes' as a type of lesbian, not an all-encompassing term for lesbians. Because there sure are different types.

B.

Jah Warrior
07-05-2003, 10:35 AM
formerly i stated that butch lesbians scare me. This is not true really, its lesbians with MULLETS that scare me!!! you know! the ones on Trisha :p hehe.

El Sitherino
07-05-2003, 10:38 AM
ANYONE with a mullet scares me.:)

Jah Warrior
07-05-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
ANYONE with a mullet scares me.:)

right on, i'm an extreme mulletaphobic

Jah Warrior
07-05-2003, 10:56 AM
DAD quote:
Oh, and Jah Warrior, I have to agree - lesbians scare the hell out of me! At least I have the sense to sleep with men... no offence to any lesbians out there, I'm sure you're perfectly nice people.

Thrackan Quote:-
How can you cry about people bashing you and not accepting you when you dont even like lesbians and say they are scary. Dont be a hypocrite.

I'm sure that DAD will be first to correct me if i'm wrong, but i assume he means that he cannot see how a man can find a woman attractive let alone a woman finding a woman attractive. Its clearly just humour on DAD's part.

Come on peeps you simply must have a sense of humour in there somewhere.

BTW I'm just having a chat with my mum about the christian faith and homosexuality, she's a sunday school teacher so it could be either very funny or very interesting, maybe both :D

SkinWalker
07-05-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
If your going to say that the Bible is rubbish and what your saying is you dont like Christians then what is so wrong with me saying being gay is rubbish?

Perhaps it has to do with the fact that it is highly likely homosexuals are born as homosexuals. Homosexuality isn't a belief system in that case. Christianity, on the other hand is. This is but one of the worlds mainstream religions.

If, as some current findings indicate, homosexuality is true, then the real question is how will this benefit a species considering natural selection?

The answer might be found in looking at other species that have "self-destructive" (I use that term, since not being able to reproduce limits a species' ability to evolve). Bees are a good example. They've evolved over millions of years but have one flaw: once they sting another animal, they die. (the stinger pulls out nerve bundles, part of the digestive tract, etc.) So how could "suicide" be good for the species? The answer is that the hive itself is protected by a few sacrifices. The good of the many, outweighs the needs of the few so to speak.

One could look at homosexuality in much the same light. Overpopulation creates many problems for a society. There are many unwanted children in the world. There are many orphans of war and calamity. Food production is sufficient, but delivery and affordability is consistently problematic. For a few of our species to sacrifice themselves by not reproducing would seem to be a good thing.

Here's another thought: If homosexuality is hereditary, will not the gene pool clean itself up only if the practice is accepted and encouraged? If it is not hereditary (and it certainly cannot be contagious), then what is the problem? Homosexuals are largely interested only in Homosexuals. I've yet to see them go door-to-door asking to teach the skin-flute and spread their 'word.'

Another indication that homosexual and bisexual behavior can be beneficial to society would be to look at the bonobo monkey. This is a society that is almost exclusively bisexual. There is also very little in-house squabbles that occur. The sexual contacts between same sex monkies appears to be designed to create a harmonious society. The only problem I've noted about homosexuals in human society is the hatred that alleged non-homosexuals have toward them.

Revulsion is a cultural bias that is learned. Hatred comes from fear. One has to wonder what it is about homosexual behavior that is truly feared?

Thrackan Solo
07-05-2003, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that it is highly likely homosexuals are born as homosexuals. Homosexuality isn't a belief system in that case. Christianity, on the other hand is. This is but one of the worlds mainstream religions.

I get what your saying SK, but I believe that humans are born sinful and we can choose whether to embrace God or fall into the pit of sin.
And the reason I say being gay is "rubbish" is because if DaD is getting upset about people "gay-bashing", how do you think I would feel when he insults my religion and basically calls me and other Christans rubbish? If he can call my beliefs rubbish and I am not complaining about anything or asking for sympathy, then why cant he "take it like a man" and deal with it?:confused:

* Deleted most of the post you quoted... it seemed unnecessary, particularly since that post is directly above yours. --Skin

Jah Warrior
07-05-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
I get what your saying SK, but I believe that humans are born sinful and we can choose whether to embrace God or fall into the pit of sin.
And the reason I say being gay is "rubbish" is because if DaD is getting upset about people "gay-bashing", how do you think I would feel when he insults my religion and basically calls me and other Christans rubbish? If he can call my beliefs rubbish and I am not complaining about anything or asking for sympathy, then why cant he "take it like a man" and deal with it?:confused:

Basically you have a choice whether to be a christian or not, DAD has no choice, he just is! Just like i have no choice as to whether I am black or white purple or green.

people become christian, you are not born christian, where as you just are gay there is no choice involved. Hence to descriminate against a person on the basis of their sexuality is prejudice or biggotry or ignorance as you please. Pick whichever description suits you best :p

Weapon X
07-06-2003, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
As for Anakin's fear of gays hitting on straight men, I'd say the fear is unfounded.

oh you think my "fear" is unfounded? how about some gay guy trying to "convert" me while i was passed out at a party, is that unfounded? i think not, to me that's a VERY good reason to be skeptical about ALL gays until they earn my respect and trust that they WON'T try to do me when i'm unconscious, THAT'S why my opinions are what they are, you can't say that i don't know what i'm talking about, i have had first hand experience and since you won't be satisfied w/my opinions, you now have my reasons, now does anyone else wanna tell me my opinions are unfounded?

SkinWalker
07-06-2003, 05:41 AM
Not only do I think your fears are unfounded, but I think you should edit your post so that your quoted text is less than your reply. Only quote what is necessary. It was not necessary to quote his entire post.

Now... If I was robbed by a black man, should I question all black people until they earn my respect?

If I am the victim of prejudice from a white person, should I suspect all white-eyes of racism?

Those fears are unfounded and unfair. The control group for my study was too small.

The control group for your study is too small to make those broad, sweeping assumptions about homosexuals. Afterall, heterosexuals have been known to get liquered up and take sexual advantage of others. Therefore, your fears must be grounded in some other experience or observation.

Perhaps this person made an assumption about your sexual orientation and desire to engage in this type of behavior... after all, you did "pass out at a party," which indicates substance abuse and poor decision making in the first place (particularly based upon your age).

I realize that last paragraph will likely piss you off, but my intent is not to enrage you, but rather to engage you. In critical thinking, that is. Assumptions work in all directions and are most dangerous when there is a lack of information.

Die Another Day
07-06-2003, 07:41 AM
Just quickly, Thrackan Solo seems to have misread my last post. Cheers Jah Warrior for defending me while I was away.

Firstly, I DO NOT hate Christianity. That's a mean thing to say, and I certainly don't think that the whole idea is total rubbish. I said, IN MY OPINION, that I don't agree with the beliefs and views held by Christians... perhaps my wording of my feelings was a little harsh, but I definately do not hate religion and people who follow a certain faith. I just said I THOUGHT it was nonsense from my point of view. I'm not religious, that's what I meant.

Secondly, I have many lesbian friends. My little joke about lesbians wasn't meant ot be offensive or anti-lesbian in any way (that's why I said 'no offence to any lesbians out there' at the end of my comment.). It was a joke, people! Maybe not a funny one, but I laughed... however, according to many people out here, I'm sick and twisted anyway, so what's the problem?

Now, ep2 Anakin, you and I better have a little chat -
Your experiance of a gay guy trying to 'convert' you while you were passed out is, I can assure you, VERY RARE. This guy, whoever he was, was either drunk himself or incredibly stupid. Now, whether anything actually happened or you stopped him is totally your business, and I'm not trying to pry here, but this sort of thing NEVER happens (normally). The guy needs a serious slap round the face if he was thinking straight, because it's totally wrong to take advantage of passed-out-straight-people. Either that, or it was a complament because he thought you were cute... but it's still 100% wrong. Normal gay guys would never, EVER do such a thing.

ShockV1.89
07-06-2003, 03:16 PM
i think not, to me that's a VERY good reason to be skeptical about ALL gays until they earn my respect and trust that they WON'T try to do me when i'm unconscious, THAT'S why my opinions are what they are,

Man, if I thought the way you did, I'd be a card carrying member of the KKK. Read what you wrote there. To sum it up...

"A gay guy once tried to have sex with me when I was drunk at a party, so that's why I dont trust any gay guys!"

Does that really make any sense?

now does anyone else wanna tell me my opinions are unfounded?

Sure do. Your opinions are unfounded. Why? Because you are making broad assumptions and generalizations about an entire population based on your experiences with one or two members of said population. It's not fair. Shall I judge all Wisconsinites (sp?) by your actions here? I certainly hope not....

Jah Warrior
07-06-2003, 03:36 PM
w00t!?!!

the thread is now descending into pointless bickering!

Yay for reasoned debate :rolleyes:

ShockV1.89
07-06-2003, 03:43 PM
if it's the first option then **** off you p.o.s.,

Ok, now thats something you shouldnt say here no matter what someone else said.

and people in wyoming know how to handle their alcohol,

Here's my opinion. If you get so bombed that you pass out... you didnt know how to handle your alcohol.

Anyway, it still isnt fair to be skeptical of every gay person, because you havent met every gay person. Furthermore, you are not a dog. You are a human being. You should be able to distinguish, and understand that not every gay guy in the world is the prick that you ran into at that party.

EDIT: i'll retract the profanity when skinwalker clears up as to why it's in there in the first place. NONE of you understand because NONE of you have had that experience. you say now "i wouldn't think that way, it's just one guy" whatever, i'm not even gonna try to make anyone understand what I'M thinking and WHY i'm thinking it, have some gay guy try to rape you when you just wanna have fun w/friends and then tell me that you still trust all gay men because "just one" of the many gay men in existence tried to do that. it has a VAST impact on your life afterwards, especially since i'm still in high school. none of you will EVER understand so it's useless for me to even TRY to make you unerstand and see what i'm seeing, but whatever, that's my opinion and i stick with it til the end of time and NOBODY can tell me otherwise because also in my mind, and probably in EVERY mind in wyoming, that's foundation for mistrust.

God, I hate it when people do this. "NONE of you understand because NONE of you have had that experience."

How do you know?

have some gay guy try to rape you when you just wanna have fun w/friends and then tell me that you still trust all gay men because "just one" of the many gay men in existence tried to do that. Thats exactly what we're telling you.

none of you will EVER understand

I think most of us are too mature to think that way.
probably in EVERY mind in wyoming

Have you met every person in Wyoming? No? Then dont say things like that. It's a discredit to EVERY mind in Wyoming.

TheJackal
07-06-2003, 04:02 PM
at first this was a resonable debate.

if more crap gets thrown around and attacks are made to any members, regardless of thier sexual preferences (and in my opinon thats just what it is. A sexual preference, its like prefering drinking Coca-Cola over Pepsi. I know the comparaison is over simplified, but its the best way to proove my point. It shouldnt matter if you drink pepsi or coke.)

Anyways, enough about my personnal opinion and back to my warning.

If more crap gets tossed at people and more insults this thread will be closed. Its a shame, it started off pretty well with mature debates. Clean up your acts. And for all those that swore and insulted an other, say your sorry publicly (on this thread). If nothing is done and its still a slug fest I'm closing this thread for good.

Sorry
-jackal

Bob Gnarly
07-06-2003, 04:16 PM
and in my opinon thats just what it is. A sexual preference, its like prefering drinking Coca-Cola over Pepsi. I know the comparaison is over simplified, but its the best way to proove my point. It shouldnt matter if you drink pepsi or coke.)

Best way ive seen it put all thread.
I agree 120% with that comment.

SkinWalker
07-06-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by ep2 Anakin

EDIT: i'll retract the profanity when skinwalker clears up as to why it's in there in the first place.

Better idea... I'll retract it for you. Post deleted.

And to answer your question, I put that phrase in quotations because they were your words.... quoted. Nothing more.

Assumptions.

SkinWalker
07-06-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by TheJackal
If nothing is done and its still a slug fest I'm closing this thread for good.

C'Jais and I have already discussed closing... we agreed that if it continues to get out of hand, this might happen.

One more offensive post and I'll close it myself. I only leave it open now because you issued a warning.

ShockV1.89
07-06-2003, 04:45 PM
Bah. Now my post looks like I'm talking to myself! ;) :D

SkinWalker
07-06-2003, 05:00 PM
I did leave the quote in place, but I think everyone gets the drift.......

Actually, I should've realized Ep2Anakin's propensity for flying off the handle when he feels offended. My goal wasn't troll this response but rather to point out the problem with assumptions. But then, if one is that easily offended then perhaps one shouldn't participate in controversial debates.

Still, he has my apology if he feels that I sought an ad hominim attack. He's free to PM me if still in need to vent.

TheJackal
07-06-2003, 07:05 PM
I'll wait to see what DaD feels like. He's been offended by a few people and see how he feels about it now.

I know that my warning more or less killed off this thread, I hope it doesnt. Debates can be the most stimulating intellectual thing one can do.

But I hope you guys understand how rare it is for me to actually post a warning. I'm probebly the most easy going admin around. Allmost never did wave around my magic admin stick to anything. Its too bad I have to do it in the Senate Chambers.

Jah Warrior
07-06-2003, 07:44 PM
well, jack,

I find it interesting that the people that were vociferously anti-gay are now saying nothing... is this because they know that the intolerant attitude is indeed wrong?

interesting, interesting indeed!

El Sitherino
07-06-2003, 09:48 PM
they know they have lost because they are behind in times with their alpha male, prehistoric ideology.

Lord Siraious
07-07-2003, 02:18 AM
Hmmm... Insane Sith and Jah Warrior I would agree with yous a little the warning has stopped those type of people but I have a feeling others have nothing futher to say (myself included). Instead of people just debating some just... well yous all know. I posted on this but no one has questioned my post so does that mean you thought it was sound? Anyway I'll only post when I feel its called for. :yoda: