View Full Version : New info on JA editing!

07-03-2003, 04:26 PM
The main page has some awesome new info which reveals some cool stuff about what we can do for MP and SP editing in JA! There's one point I found really awesome:

* SP AI can be scripted into MP levels, eg- 2 rancors guarding a cantina

Okay, first of all, we can do ICARUS II scripting in MP as well as SP as already mentioned. Now, we can do AI, too! This means we can code SP games into MP, using the scripting, the AI, and even straight C code for new entities! The possibilities are endless! Think of making an SP level and having it co-op right off the bat with as little as adding more spawn points!

SP editing in JO is quite limited, and making an SP game in MP is not really feasible since there's no scripting, and there's no AI. The rendering engine in JO kind of sucked for MP, but I doubt JA will be the same since they have so much time to fix it up and polish it.

Infact, I've been thinking that MP and SP might share the same code! I mean, think about what we've heard. Force powers are the same in MP and SP, scripting is the same, AI is the same. It would be a very smart development choice to put everything on the MP code to begin with. If this is true, then SP in JA is just running a local MP server. I believe games like Diablo do something just like this. Jedi Knight had a single code base, although didn't use a local server. The result of shared code was that anything you could do in MP, you could do in SP, and vice versa. It's also incredibly stable, fast, and bugfree since you don't have to debug and fix two different engines, so to speak.

What are your thoughts on this?

07-03-2003, 10:08 PM
Emon this would beinifit the DF2 Jedi knight mod so much ive also heard that the level paths will not be linier like in JO but like in the orginal JK at the moment where talking of moving everything to JK3:JA as it would have true duel sabers i.e. Boc is less of pain in the *** also the level pathing if this is true would make our lives a lot easyer i still would want to know if new animations would be possible and the kell Dragon as the kell is part of the game and we wanna get the mod as close as possible to the original JK3: JA could give us a major boost with the the whole project it would let us get on more with other parts of the project and take a big load off all our minds

P.s. sorry if im ramberling and the spellings crap i ve only slept for 4 hours in the last 48hours

07-03-2003, 10:36 PM
I'll get happy when the games comes out and so does the right set of tools. On an interview one guys from Raven said that, even when MP will have AI and ICARUS II, making an SP with the MP code is not entirely a fact. So we'll se what JA has to offer later, even when it represents a last hope to complete the mods currently in progress for JO.

07-04-2003, 03:53 AM
Not entirely a fact, what do you mean?

Only problems that could arise are things like entity limits, rendering engine problems, and save games.

07-04-2003, 10:17 AM
When I say -Not entirely a fact- I mean that not even Raven says that is completely possible to make an SP game out of MP. Perhaps it ends out that we can, I hope so, I'm not trying to be a party killer.
All I'm saying is that (like my mentor Recombinant would say ;)) I'm not holding my breath, just crossing my fingers.

07-04-2003, 03:40 PM
Uh, when did Raven say that? The closest thing I can remember is back with JO when they said you could make an SP game in MP, and that was for JO.

Dark Reaper
07-04-2003, 03:49 PM
all I can say is.... *Drool* and Sweet

oh sorry for drooling all over the place

07-04-2003, 04:39 PM
It's clear now that is not possible to make an SP game out of the MP engine as rich as some of us want in JO.
Concerning JA, I can't say what will be possible or what won't.
All I can say is that Raven is full of ppl that say they like to contribute with the modding community but at the end all we have is limited capabilities to fully edit the game and poor documentation of things.
Valve for example, is one company that really cares about modders, that explains my axiety for Source Engine based games and it's SDK, which will be released before the game comes out.
Lets hope JA delivers us the capabilities to finish all the important mods pending and still in progress, and them move on to another engine.
After all, Raven could end up licensing and selling a mod developed for free, like Valve does. What a success, I really don't understand this guys. I'm not saying that I intend to have them selling the DF mod, but at least showing a little more interaction with the community. I don't hear word from them since a looooong time.

07-04-2003, 07:01 PM
Actually it is possible, but no one wants to.

07-04-2003, 08:05 PM
What's possible Emon? I don't get it, sorry. Dumb me.

07-05-2003, 03:58 PM
SP game in MP, for JO. It's possible, but no one really knows what they are doing or doesn't have the motivation.

07-05-2003, 04:04 PM
Thanks for explaining Emon, sometime I loose my own line of conversation :).

07-05-2003, 07:51 PM
Assume the worst outcome with Raven, it's what always seems most likely.

I personally don't care for SP as it is, but if the AI is improved, I might like it. It's hard to say. One thing I would say is a plus is if Raven uses a single executeable to run both SP and MP, but I doubt this is possible.

I'm not sure what to think about this news, It sounds like maybe they just branched off a new MP from the SP project, and undid all the lousy anti-network hacks.

07-05-2003, 09:25 PM
I'm reserving judgment on this one, but the NPC scripting alone is attractive enough for me to lean toward JA as a better platform for a project such as ours.

However, much still remains to be seen, since it's difficult to tell how much is reality vs. marketingspeak. I'm hoping for the best, but we shall see...


07-06-2003, 01:30 PM
Qué será será, whatever will be, will be... :D

07-06-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by wudan
Assume the worst outcome with Raven, it's what always seems most likely.

You're basing that off of JO alone, many of Raven's games are much better engine wise. LEC rushed it out the door, it's not their fault.

Dark Reaper
07-06-2003, 06:47 PM
but if you assume the worst then you can't get dissapointed..
if you assume the worst then you can think of the mod you can make for sure, and you won't bother on thinking how your gonna make a jetpack in SP, the best we can do now is just wait for it to come and not daydream about what it might be

07-06-2003, 08:23 PM
Hey wudan, aren't you heading off into Half-Life 2 modding anyway?


07-06-2003, 10:01 PM
Half Life 2 modding? PRESENTE!

07-07-2003, 04:33 PM
You...didn't know you could mod HL2?

07-07-2003, 05:06 PM
Yeah.. he knows. :D

Anyway, getting us back on topic...

I've been mulling this over and I'm tending to agree that the JA route is the way to go at this point. The NPC scripting support alone is enough of a selling point for me, rather than having to kluge together the system left over by WLS. It sounds like the scripting engine available for the mappers/level designers will be quite powerful, and will be worth the wait.

I'm sure that more information will be forthcoming in the next few months regarding exactly what is going to be made available to us as far as the SDK is concerned. It's evident that the matter is still undecided about what, if any, code will be released, but hopefully they will not disappoint us [too much].


07-07-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Emon
You're basing that off of JO alone, many of Raven's games are much better engine wise. LEC rushed it out the door, it's not their fault.
I'm afraid it's rather like arguing over pudding flavors. I've simply reached a point where I am continuing on with my projects because they are of interest to me, and I could care less for the 'community' at large.

I'm a fairly large fan of Raven's, minus the fact that JA doesn't seem nearly as promising as it should ...

Still, I can't tell the future. I have been looking very strongly in to HL2 modding, depends on what options I have, codewise.

Nevertheless, time permitting, I'd love to work on someething for JA.

07-07-2003, 07:34 PM
Emon, don't get confused by my nonsense posts, I use to do it a lot :).
Anyway, I wanna see what ICARUS II, new AI and the new model mixer creation method has to offer. I'm having a lot of ideas of what I can make with that.
I just hope Raven delivers us what's been promised and said by Kenn Hoekstra on all the interviews. Is not a lot, but sounds good anyway.