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razorace
07-07-2003, 07:34 PM
This thread is for discussion for the possibility of a open source uber-mod for JKA. The idea is to have as many people as possible combine their efforts into maximizing the feature list for JKA. Most of the current JK2 mods are simply clones of each other except for a couple feature differences.

I'm thinking a CVS code sharing system set up on a open source development site (like sourceforge) would be the way to go.

Obviously this dependant on the state of JKA, but we can at least start thinking about it now.

Personally, I'd be willing to submit various features to the project. Right now, I'm intreged by the concept of ghoul2 based bolt on cloaks that flow like real cloaks.

THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR SUBMITTING FEATURES IDEAS WITHOUT ANY INTEREST IN ACTUALLY DOING THE WORK YOURSELF. DEVELOPERS ONLY PLEASE!!

Emon
07-10-2003, 02:57 PM
I'm interested in helping. I mainly want to work on recreating the singleplayer aspects with the multiplayer engine. However, it's hard to tell at this time if it's possible, or how much is needed. If the MP and SP engines are integrated like Elite Force II, then a lot of work will be done for us. However, I'd still want to code additional entities to make SP easier and more productive.

Also, I'm working on several editing tools for JO/JA. I think having an applications subdivision to the project would be great. Things like my model converter, shader editor or Wudan's GlaNeo could easily be opensourced, easily accessable, etc.

razorace
07-10-2003, 10:41 PM
That would be great. You are correct, it does depend on the final JKA product. We'd have to coordinate our planning to make sure any additional features don't break or replace the existing ones. :) I'd say that's a primary issue to the project. If people want to majorly modify primary gameplay, we could make that stuff a cvar or a seperate subproject.


Yeah, a tools subset would be great.

Emon
07-11-2003, 12:35 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I think minor balance issues could be addressed, but major gameplay modifications should be avoided. I think the idea should be a general enhancement for both developers and users.

razorace
07-11-2003, 04:55 AM
Yeah, I imagine we could set up a committee of JKA developers to determine what would allowed into the project, focus and quality wise. We don't want people to create clones of the project just becuase ___ feature isn't included or because ___ SuXz.

With a open source CVS system, people could independantly add features and then the committee could add them to the master copy if the features proved to be worthy.

Emon
07-13-2003, 04:50 AM
What about various other enhancements like new models or effects? Similar to a high definition pack? General enhancements not specific, ones that no one would dislike. For example, I made a new saber core texture a while back that was pretty much perfect, got rid of the buldge at the bottom and fixed the sharp point at the top. No one has ever said they didn't like it.

razorace
07-13-2003, 09:04 AM
I'll allow it. :)

Seriously, that sort of thing would be great in my opinion. But, any effect/model enhancements would have to be top drawer quality stuff as to make the additional download size worth it.

For example, I know Scarlet's improved saber/bolt efx work looks great. I've only seen screenshots of it, but the work was based directly on screenshots that I pulled from Episode II after some frame-by-frame research on the effects. The WIP screenshots were dead on with what's in Episode 2.

Emon
07-13-2003, 07:28 PM
So should we start now or wait for JA? I can think of some miscellaneous stuff that could be coded in JO, naimly entities, that could be ported to JA easily.

razorace
07-14-2003, 12:42 AM
I say wait til JKA. We don't want to waste time working on stuff that might end up being unnessicary in JKA. Plus, I want to start fresh with JKA.

Emon
07-14-2003, 03:22 PM
Ok.

razorace
07-18-2003, 06:54 PM
Is anyone else interested in this or will Emon and I have to forge the path first?

Emon
07-19-2003, 07:15 AM
I suspect others will join later. I just linked a coder for JK who wants to move to JA to this, in a thread at Massassi. My good friends like Gonk and Sine_Nomen are both interested in it, but don't code.

ASk
07-19-2003, 09:13 AM
Remember the JediMod issue

Looking back at the previous discoveries, most of them should've never been released to the public. Perhaps to a closed modder community, but not to the general users. It only broke down the community, and now, most of the discoveries are credited to the first people that used them in their "mods".

If you do that mod, consider the possibility of making the actual source available to trusted people only, in the long run, it will do better than if you opensource it.

Wudan
07-19-2003, 11:44 AM
I agree with ASk on this. I won't have time to create a mod by myself, but I'm for an inside coder's collaboration work.

I'm not really in the mood for a JediMod flame war.

razorace
07-19-2003, 07:13 PM
The problem with a "inside coder's collaboration work" is that it turns everything into a bickering fest about how much the ___ feature is "worth" compared to ___. Everything ends up as a battle of egos and nothing really got done. Plus, every awesome modder starts out as a n00b, restricting information to newcomers would hurt the community.

With OJP, we'd start from the get go with a solid license agreement to insure that people won't simply copycat our work. As for credit, since all the features would be released in OJP first and still credited in any "breakoff" projects, all the fame for your work would be secure.

Emon
07-19-2003, 08:08 PM
Razorace is right.

razorace
07-20-2003, 06:14 AM
Thank you. :)

Another point to consider. Most of the "me too" clones tend to have one major feature addition and then some minor gameplay alterations. Eliminate the need to make "me too" mods to add major feature additions and the number of "me too" mods should go down.

Emon
07-20-2003, 07:21 AM
Also, things like JediMod were composed of specific gameplay alterations, this is very general. If you tried to clone what I have in mind for the OJP, most people would ignore it and just go with the real thing that they know is good.

Wudan
07-20-2003, 12:21 PM
Heh. Very general.

razor, I think that history will show that if someone is the first to throw the red card at an idea, it's you. You just happen to like this one because you're the thread starter and you feel that you have naturally inherited some kind of 'bad idea' veto power.

People came to accept what JediMod had because it was (A) Open Source, and (B) had features that were generally desirable.

Result? Every mod built on JediMod has the distinction of tasting like JediMod, like wines that come from the same vineyard.

I'm not outwardly against any collaboration, I just don't want to have to take a paternity test on my works later.

Rather than any kind of Open Jedi Project, a more sane solution would be to come up with a list of bugs in the source and a list of fixes for those bugs, so that each coder can apply and improve on the fixes as they please.

Since you've basically just said 'no, we're not going to do anything extra, just bug fixes', then why are you doing this at all?

Emon
07-20-2003, 05:39 PM
What? Only bug fixes? Who said that?

Wudan, there are thousands of projects in the open source community that don't have any problems. Also, why would people rip off this mod when it's mainly meant to be a base for other developers?

Wudan
07-20-2003, 07:02 PM
Ok, so nobody said 'bug fixes'.

What I'm stipulating is that what *I* think is necessary might not be what *you* think is necessary, nor should it be. It is an indicator of arrogance to point a creative process in a specific direction.

I'll warrant that such a thing has a high possibility of being useful, but it certainly reeks of creative troubles. It certainly seems like you are tempting fate to recreate history.

I'll just say it - JK2 modding is a nightmare, largely because there are so many mods where the talented authors could not work together - for instance, why didn't we see a Masters of the Force / Movie Battles ? Why didn't anyone team up with ForceMod? Why did Promod find it's burial at AotCTC? What ever happened to OmniMod? All of them, so similar, that they set out to solve the same problem, and in large part, they do.

But, did they have adequate server support? If the mods authors had cooperated, would they have adequate server support? Where are the server admins, that we might find out what they think on the subject? I'd frankly like to know why there wasn't more server support for mods ...

razorace
07-20-2003, 07:12 PM
razor, I think that history will show that if someone is the first to throw the red card at an idea, it's you. You just happen to like this one because you're the thread starter and you feel that you have naturally inherited some kind of 'bad idea' veto power.Oh, you're just jealous of my 'bad idea' veto power. :D I've always turned down previous offers as it's always been a "under the table" affair with no clear rules/focus.

I'm not outwardly against any collaboration, I just don't want to have to take a paternity test on my works later.Well, if you don't want to share your work to help the community, you don't have to contribute.

Rather than any kind of Open Jedi Project, a more sane solution would be to come up with a list of bugs in the source and a list of fixes for those bugs, so that each coder can apply and improve on the fixes as they please.Been there, done that. The idea of OJP is to go beyond that and get modder share basic features to encourage cooperation.

Emon
07-21-2003, 02:24 AM
What I'm stipulating is that what *I* think is necessary might not be what *you* think is necessary, nor should it be. It is an indicator of arrogance to point a creative process in a specific direction.
Uh, what are you talking about?

I'll warrant that such a thing has a high possibility of being useful, but it certainly reeks of creative troubles. It certainly seems like you are tempting fate to recreate history.
What??

I'll just say it - JK2 modding is a nightmare, largely because there are so many mods where the talented authors could not work together - for instance, why didn't we see a Masters of the Force / Movie Battles ? Why didn't anyone team up with ForceMod? Why did Promod find it's burial at AotCTC? What ever happened to OmniMod? All of them, so similar, that they set out to solve the same problem, and in large part, they do.
I fail to see how this is relevant. We aren't trying to unite the modding community or anything. I think the idea razorace has, or at least that I have, is a mod which can be used as a general base for other developers, and possibly do minor gameplay fixes and general enhancements. On the developer note, think of it as an open source C++ library of tools, perhaps like the STL. I myself would aim mostly at recreating things from SP for the MP engine so better SP games could be made, or coding new entities that would let you do a lot more a lot easier, say an elevator entity that supports multiple switches, floors, and is highly customizable.

But, did they have adequate server support? If the mods authors had cooperated, would they have adequate server support? Where are the server admins, that we might find out what they think on the subject? I'd frankly like to know why there wasn't more server support for mods ...
You, sir, have more screws loose than the Millenium Falcon! Almost every JO server has a mod on it today.

razorace
07-21-2003, 02:45 AM
I'll add that MotF and MovieBattles never did anything together primarily due to us both being stubborn bastards. I refused to eliminate all the other gamemodes for the sake of Last Man Standing and he wouldn't accept that. But that's ok. OJP has nothing to do with major gameplay altering mods like MotF or MovieBattles anyway.

Wudan
07-21-2003, 11:39 AM
Basically, what I'm saying is, good luck with your efforts. There's no point in me trying to dissuade you from your course, so good luck, and have fun with it.

Emon
07-21-2003, 07:43 PM
wudan, if you what you say becomes a problem, we'll probably reduce it strictly to a mod for other developers.

razorace
07-22-2003, 01:37 AM
Personally, I'd prefer a SOL (Smacktard Open License). Meaning that while the code is open to the public, we still reserve the right to restrict usage if certain individuals start pulling crap.

But I don't think that sort of thing will be nessicary too often. With a easy and "community-open" ability to add features directly to OJP, why make a 50 zillion clones to make additions like in the case of JediMod? Sure, there will probably always be knockoff mods that wish to do major gameplay changes (like MovieBattles), but that's the whole point of the project concept. Restricting non-mod specific changes (like ghoul2 hit detection) only forces players to choose mods based on raw feature lists instead of the actual gameplay/style of the mod. Heck, imagine how Saga could have taken off if there had been a universially accepted, open source codebase.

ASk
07-22-2003, 10:59 AM
But it didn't, and last time I checked, either that map creator, or Artifex (or was it Anakin) are credited for it...in the eyes of the community of course.

But that's what matters, I do not think that if a group of ~5-10 people know who had done which part, and a group of 5000 believes that 1 person done it all, the smaller group will ever have chance to win.

Hell, I challenge you to find 1 person that just plays JK2, that knows who Dest is. The only name they know now is BOFH.

Wudan
07-22-2003, 11:33 AM
I'd prefer a collaboration between a group of server admins and coders, come to think of it. Server admins could tell us what is working and what isn't, and what is being abused, so the mod collaboration can be pro-active in fixing and solving problems. Basically, for a time, an open beta on a closed number of servers.

Although I'd prefer closed source, I'd want the project to live on rather than hand it off to a team who wouldn't use it, so if you do want to leave a legacy, Open Source is the way to go.

Hell Raiser
07-22-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Emon
I just linked a coder for JK who wants to move to JA to this, in a thread at Massassi.

Yea, that'd be me. ;)

Lets see here............ wait, it all makes no sense. :confused:

This would basically be an 'official community approved' JA mod for others to build off of?

Wudan
07-22-2003, 03:03 PM
Nope, nothing officially official, and the word "community" in this sense is loose. But it's a good idea that a lot of folks will want to get behind, and some folks will want to abuse.

razorace
07-22-2003, 09:42 PM
Well, it would be as "official" as the community can make it. Unfortunately, Raven can't do so much as a press release without direct approval from LEC's legal department.

But it didn't, and last time I checked, either that map creator, or Artifex (or was it Anakin) are credited for it...in the eyes of the community of course.
Maybe it's because that mapmaker was the only person that actually did anything with it. No offence, but the code fix mod for Saga was a rush job. It came out without any fanfare or input from other people helping on the "Saga Project".

Sides, what do you want? A parade? A trophy wife? To a Jedi these matter not. Well, maybe the hot babe wife..... :D

Emon
07-23-2003, 03:02 AM
Yeah, I don't really care about fame or anything. I have enough of it as it is, and it sickens me. People find me in #Massassi, e-mail me or PM me with the dumbest questions, ask me to fix their level, to make a mod for them. Ugh. I don't want more of this. I'm sure Hell Raiser can sympathize from JK. On his forums, all sorts of annoying people worship him. It makes me sick, I don't want to know what it does to him.

Anyways, Hell Raiser, the idea here is an open source mod for other developers to work off of. Personally, I'd like to code a lot of singleplayer things into multiplayer, to either be used strictly for singleplayer or for co-op. My friends who also are working on large SP projects are disappointed with the limitations we have come across. I'm the only coder among these guys, and I feel the need to do something like this, for myself and for my friends' projects which I'd really like to see shine.

Some basic things would be bugfixes, improved GHOUL2 collision as wudan mentioned, or new entities to make mapping easier. I know you aren't that familiar with Q3 yet (at least I don't think), so an entity is basically like a template for a thing in JK, except made from a bunch of C code.

Hell Raiser
07-23-2003, 11:12 AM
Heh, whens the last time you've been to the TDiR forums Emon? They're plagued with topics on bugs and crashes and whining people who think they know how to fix things. :p The praise era has been gone for a while...

Anyway, I'm semi familiar with Q3 coding. *hugs Code3Arena (http://www.planetquake.com/code3arena/)* I did alot of reading before JO came out and have a rough understanding of how things work with the Q3 series of games. Hell, I could probably figure most of it out on my own anyway. ;)

Well, as things in RL are up in the air for me, you'll have to ask me again later when JA is out and the SDK available for download. As much as I'd like to start another project (or fantasize really) to kill time with, I've no time to kill right now, nor in the foreseeable future. :o

Emon
07-23-2003, 03:17 PM
On a side note, I think people remember BOFH and not Dest because Dest stopped making JediMod after 1.2, and BOFH was still making more stuff after that. Anyone who came late into the game will only know BOFH because his new big fat versions overshadow the old JediMod. It's like how people don't know what MOSAIC is, even though IE is based off it.

razorace
07-23-2003, 05:09 PM
exactly, emon.

LordEradicator
08-08-2003, 04:40 AM
I worked on the Tenebrae and Tenebrae 2 Quake engine modification projects. They are both open source andwe have no problems about clones. Its not that we aren't popular either. We've had time on planetquake and other websites. We add stencil buffered shadows, reflections, Quake3 MD3 model format, Quake3 BSP format, enhanced particle effects with scripting, a Quake 3 like shader system, and more. We are open source as required by the Quake engine GPL liscense and we've never had problems with clones.
I'm also the creator of the FanMod for JK2 at www.modsrus.com . It was the first ever source code modification for JK2. I can tell you that almost anyone from the JK2 community today has never heard of me yet FanMod had over 10,000 downloads from June 09 to June16, 2002. So I can also agree with the credit and names getting lost in time point of view, but I don't think that really matters as I left the JK2 community for a long time and stopped supporting the mod simply because I had moved on to other projects.
Overall, I think this project is a good idea and I would be willing to contribute. We could make it like an advanced community SDK or source code base that all other mods that heavily alter gameplay could base it off just so all mods have the core fetaures that every mod truly needs. I think we could even add gameplay affecting features and have them cvar controllable and have those cvars off by default. As you can tell by FanMod I love cvars and server configurability.

Emon
08-08-2003, 05:52 AM
<3 you ^^

Emon
08-08-2003, 05:52 AM
And by the way, I heard of your FanMod. :)

schnarf
08-11-2003, 06:30 AM
Uh, I'm a coder, and Emon suggested I join, I'm open to joining and I have experience in the open-source community. My only constraint is the amount of time I'm able to dedicate to this project: Once school starts on September 4, I will be very busy and thus will not always be able to put in as much time as I'd like to.

P.S. LordEradicator, I have the prestigious claim to having released the first mod (though non-code) for JO. Yes, behold übersaber in all of its glory. I don't really remember what it was, but I think I just changed the JPG for the lightsaber blade to look better. Yes, what better credentials could one need than this? ;)

Edit: http://www.massassi.net/levels/files/1946.shtml
I made the saber better and I made the respawn bubble blue. Now if that doesn't qualify me, I don't know what does.

Emon
08-11-2003, 06:34 AM
<3

razorace
08-11-2003, 07:16 AM
Time constrants aren't really an issue as we're probably going to go with a CVS system. (Meaning you'll be able to edit the code @ your own pace.)

Anyway, I think it's time to discuss specifics. Namely, what sort of requirements should we have on the copyright license, what sort of organization should we have, and where should we host it?

Emon
08-11-2003, 04:22 PM
Sourceforge or Freshmeat... and like you said, Smacktard Open License to keep away the morons, if either place will allow it.

razorace
08-11-2003, 05:40 PM
Yeah, but should we force people to open source any project based on OJP? And who decides what can be submitted or not? And when/where?

Emon
08-11-2003, 06:09 PM
I'm not sure about forcing the open source... I want to say yes, because chances are fans of open source aren't the kind that would clone your mod and try to "steal your fame". The guys who would do this probably wouldn't want to make their mod open source... so perhaps it could be added idiot protection.

You don't have to give everyone access to CVS, only staff members. If someone wants to contribute, we can give them access, or if they just have a hack or patch, we could upload it.

razorace
08-11-2003, 06:25 PM
Yeah, but there's also a concern that people won't accept OJP if it forces everyone to go open source.

I meant how do we decide when someone should have write access to the source code? Personally, I think things should be feature based. If you have a new feature up and ready to go, we'll give out access. As such, things that aren't working yet won't be put on the master copy.

Personally, I think we sort of need a "Wiseman Committee" to oversee the project and determine what should and shouldn't be put on the master copy.

In addition, I think we need to be very specific on how code alterations should be handled. They need to be neat and well organized so addition features don't turn the code into a big, fat mess.

Emon
08-11-2003, 07:20 PM
Agreed.

And why are the forum colors so ****ed up? Bright teal, wtf??

razorace
08-11-2003, 10:09 PM
Any suggestions on how we should do that? I'm blanking at the moment.

Yeah, I bitched about the colors and I think they're now messing with us because of it. :)

Emon
08-11-2003, 10:20 PM
A public forum, private forum and public IRC channel would a start. Private IRC can be done, but I don't think it's needed.

Emon
08-11-2003, 10:25 PM
Server: irc.holonet.org
Channel: #OJP

I chose Holonet because it's a very nice Star Wars IRC network, and on it reside the Massassi (http://massassi.net) and TACC (http://commandchamber.net) channels. I thought about QuakeNet or GamesNet for more traffic, but those networks are large, slow, crappy and don't use services nearly as good as Holonet.

razorace
08-11-2003, 11:05 PM
Well, that would handle the communication issues. What about who overviews the project?

Emon
08-11-2003, 11:14 PM
I would imagine us. You, the founder, and the rest of us original coders.

razorace
08-12-2003, 12:51 AM
That's what I figured. :)

Ok, well, I'll looking to writing up a rough draft for the SOL and check out hosting options.....unless someone else wants to handle one or the other.

As for hosting, I think we should make sure whereever we end up has 24/7 CVS support because A) I want to learn how to use it and B) it would really help out for a project like this.

Emon
08-12-2003, 01:39 AM
I already have an account on SourceForge, and am pretty familiar with it, shall I start a new project? They certantly have 24/7 CVS.

razorace
08-12-2003, 02:28 AM
mmmM. Can you open multiple projects like that?

You'll probably need to read thru the fine print first. We don't want SourceForge owning our asses in 6 months. :) Other than that, go for it. :)

BTW, can you suggest a good CVS client to use?

Emon
08-12-2003, 04:11 PM
Zing!

http://wincvs.org

schnarf
08-12-2003, 05:40 PM
Sourceforge is a good idea. I, too, have an account there. WinCVS is good for windows, and, of course, for unices, there's always CVS. :)

Wudan
08-12-2003, 06:01 PM
Will sourceforge accept MOD code as something worthy of their site?

It seems to me that they accept any open source project, but a MOD? Why a MOD?

Sounds odd, to have a MOD at sourceforge.

Emon
08-12-2003, 06:03 PM
I have no idea. It's all C code, it's not some funky scripting language, so I don't see why not. I'm registering right now, and they did have a "Game Software" category. We'll have to see if the accept it or not.

For right now, we gotta figure out what license to use. Please come to #OJP on irc.holonet.org as soon as you can.

Emon
08-12-2003, 07:15 PM
I think we have a problem. The game code from JO/JA is protected under their EULA, I don't think we can distribute it under another license. :(

Looks like we may have to get hosted somewhere else or set up our own CVS.

razorace
08-12-2003, 07:49 PM
Or part of our license could be to accept/follow the EULA.

Wudan
08-12-2003, 08:02 PM
It shouldn't be too hard to get a CVS set up somewhere. I was reading over SourceForge's stuff, they didn't seem like they'd have a problem, but you'd have to have it under an Open Source License, which is a problem, as Emon pointed out.

(btw emon, my flagrant abuse of the letters 'M' 'O' and 'D' were an attempt to rile you up, good job not getting riled up)

Emon
08-12-2003, 09:12 PM
I can get us hosting at Massassi, by far the fastest and most reliable host among the community.

:D
MOD = wrong.
Mod = right.
MOD = wrong.
Mod = right.
MOD = wrong.
Mod = right.
MOD = wrong.
Mod = right.
MOD = wrong.
Mod = right.

razorace
08-12-2003, 09:17 PM
Ok, well, I'm going to email Raven about this. The game source lisence actually controdicts itself on multiple occasions.

razorace
08-12-2003, 09:52 PM
Dear Raven Software Employees,

I've been looking @ the JK2 game source code license to prepare a distribution license for my community project OJP (Open Jedi Project). The purpose of OJP is to allow members of the community create a standardized code platform that adds additional features to JKA that Raven software is unable to do on their own.

However, as I've been reading the JK2 game source code license I've noticed an issue with the legalese.

You agree that the Software will not be shipped, transferred or exported into any country in violation of the U.S. Export Administration Act (or any other law governing such matters) by you or anyone at your direction and that you will not utilize and will not authorize anyone to utilize, in any other manner, the Software in violation of any applicable law. The Software shall not be downloaded or otherwise exported or re-exported into (or to a national or resident of) any country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods or to anyone or into any country who/which are prohibited, by applicable law, from receiving such property.

In English, it means you're not suppose to distribute this software to countries that the US have trade embargoes on, like Cuba. However, by the very nature of the internet, we don't really have control over this. This means that we're not technically suppose to post the game code on the internet as a download as someone from a embargoed nation could download it. This is a serious problem as we, the public, want/need to be able to legally distribute these sorts of files over the internet.

The document seems to have been cut and paste hacked together from other LEC/Raven legal documents. It's very confusing and bounces around the actual point of establishing the user's and the owner's rights.

In addition, would having a publicly accessible CVS server for our project count as a violation of Section 2, i?

i. publicly display the Software;

I understand you guys are simply game developers and not part of LEC/Raven legal, but I figured you guys might be able to help.

Thanks for your time,
Razor Ace

Wudan
08-13-2003, 02:34 PM
LOL. Um.... Raven is a Game Developement company indeed, that's why the legal crap and final QA is done by ACTIVISION.

Thanks for playing our game. Adios.

Emon
08-13-2003, 04:01 PM
Activision and LucasArts, you are correct. However, they don't seem to give a **** about us, where as Raven has helped us in the past. Since you seem to know so much, why don't you figure out a better way to solve the problem?

Trimbo
08-18-2003, 03:06 PM
The Open Source JKA Mod is interesting, and I may be interested in contributing, providing it is open source.

T

razorace
08-19-2003, 04:26 AM
Uh, that was the whole point of the project concept. :)

Emon
08-24-2003, 11:55 PM
I spoke with Kedri about hosting at Massassi. He would be glad to do it, but they have some free hosting with ReconGamer, and won't be able to setup CVS.

Any other ideas?

ryudom
08-25-2003, 12:27 AM
i plan on doing a damage reporting mod (kind of like statsme in CS i think) with differant settings like give stats after death, after game is over, or during actual combat. if you want something like that in your mod i wouldn't mind adding it in.

also, you might think its useless for a game like JO, but from what i've heard from some people it might be quite usefull in JA.

razorace
08-25-2003, 02:08 AM
Emon, what did SourceForge say about hosting?

ryudom, sounds good.

Everyone, how should we handle the cvars for OJP specific stuff? Maybe something like ojp_g for game cvars and ojp_cg for cgame cvars?

Emon
08-25-2003, 03:00 AM
I've been doing thinking, and I think we should make the mod entirely for developers, with no gameplay changes by default.

Why? Well, I was thinking OJP should maybe be more like an open source programming library, like the STL for C++, which any good C++ programmer uses. One of the great things about the original JK was that you could have all sorts of code that only worked on a per-level basis, so you could code some new fancy door or elevator, or AI, and not need to turn on any mods. This was due to being able to load any kind of code right into the level editor. JA has ICARUS in MP, which will help somewhat, but it's still not perfect. You can't add new entities without making it a mod. So my idea was that we could have, in addition to mod specific things like new hit detection and all that, custom entities that developers can use in their levels. Hopefully OJP could become somewhat of an unofficial engine patch, so to speak, in which, ideally, all servers would run. If we keep away from gameplay modifications, server admins that want vanilla gameplay can turn it on and use custom maps that use it.

I have two projects which I'm planning for JA. First is my Battle of Hoth Siege map, which is on the showcase forum right now. Second is an SW weapons mod. The weapons in JO/JA aren't original, but that's not the real problem. The problem is that the implimentation of them was flawed. You should be able to use the E-11 on the scope, thermal detonators should vaporize anything in their radius, the repeater should be more like the DF and JK one, etc., kind of reverting the JA weapons to be more true to SW and stuff. If it were successful, you could slap on "Made on OJP!" as a promo. Same goes with my Hoth map, I'm going to need new code for the AT-ATs and other things.

What do you guys think of that? Sorry for bit of rant, so ask if you need anything clarified.

Oh, and I haven't contacted SF because I was waiting your response from Raven. Have you gotten one yet?

razorace
08-28-2003, 05:20 AM
I'm not sure I'd be that liberal with the no gameplay policy. Someone might come up with something that people would generally want (like optional additiona kill tracking stuff).

Why does it say that Emon's been banned?

ryudom
08-28-2003, 02:44 PM
making the gameplay changes optional wouldn't be a bad idea, just think OSP and promode. althought, i'm sure you've thought of that already... heh

Dest
09-14-2003, 05:10 AM
Based on my experience in making JediMod opensource here are my recommendations:

1. Put the source on a server that you have full control of and make everyone sign up to get access to the source. This way you can keep people from getting the source code if you don't want them to have it (trust me you will wish some people didn't have your source code).

2. Comment the code, and comment it well. Comments will make it easier for everyone to add on.

3. Document and make it so it is easy to find if your a computer newbie. Otherwise your email will be spamed by people that don't know how to turn on dual sabers or get a white screen because they don't have the latest patch. The documentation can be there but most people wont read it if it isn't on their desktop or something.

4. Become friends with the raven people that help mod developers, it would have been cool if one of them could have told me how the ghoul engine worked, I did a lot of random guessing (I'm still amazed jedimod didn't cause a memory leak).

5. Give people credit for what they do, its motivational.

6. Become friends with artists because they can make your mod that much cooler.

razorace
09-14-2003, 06:11 PM
Woah, it's Dest! How's it going? Haven't heard from you in a long time. You considering doing anything for JKA?

I agree with everything you said but I'm not sure we have the resources to have a secure, closed server. Plus, how are you suppose to know if some new person is going to turn into your worse nightmare or not? Obviously the write command will be restricted to trusted individuals but I'm not sure there's much we can do about restricting access to the code directly for the above reason.

Our restrictions would probably come on the publishing side. If someone is being a smacktard, we just wouldn't let them post anything with our code in it. I've found that most of the main download sites seem to be very understanding about this.

Anyway, I'm reading up on my CVS and getting ready to get a sourceforge account set up for the project.

razorace
09-17-2003, 09:56 PM
Well, I'm going this discussion over to the jka coding forum. Hope to see you there.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111428

BloodRiot
10-20-2003, 12:07 PM
I'm a modeler. I couldn't code even if my life depended on it but I've been known to come up with good, reasonable and practical ideas.

I can contribute in one or both of the above mentioned forms.

If you are interested, contact me. bloodriot@netcabo.pt

Cheers.

razorace
10-20-2003, 05:01 PM
Ok, email sent.

BTW, this is the old OJP thread. Everyone is now using the new thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111428).