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Zoom Rabbit
07-07-2003, 08:05 PM
Okay, Neil...why did you close my thread over at the harbor?

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104492

This is a humorous discussion thread of the type that I've been doing for the Lucasarts forum community since 1999. Without exception, these threads turn into fun and enjoyable discussions for many of us. I have yet to receive negative feedback or see one of these threads closed.

Until now. :(

Neil, whether you appreciate the relevance of the subject matter* or not, please recognize that I put some work into that poll, whose purpose was to provide a lively context for forum interaction. Bear in mind that there is a gray area here--one man's *spam* is another's idle conversation, and the forum in which I posted this thread was that reserved for off-topic discussions.

Now...I am the first to support the moderation team in their efforts to curtail idiotic kiddie-spam. Whenever someone runs retarded monkeysh*t up the flagpole and it gets shot down, I'm the first to applaud. I don't want to see idiotic crap waste space on the board any more than you guys do. ;)

So. Is the thread in question spam or is it off-topic discussion? This is the question that I would like considered. If the answer is off-topic discussion, I would humbly like to request that the thread be re-opened.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter. :)

*The subject matter is monkeys, and the thread is at Monkey Island. That's about the most relevant I've ever been.

edlib
07-07-2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit
The subject matter is monkeys, and the thread is at Monkey Island. That's about the most relevant I've ever been.
It's true, and I'll vouch for that. :D

On any given day I see dozens of open threads in the Harbor that are full of inside jokes, border on personal conversations, laden with goofy polls, and fit the description of just general chit-chat. That's one the main reasons I like it there... it's a casual atmosphere. Some probably deserve to be closed, but never are.

Be that as it may; Zoomie's thread seems to me (and granted, since I consider myself a longtime friend of Mr. Rabbit, I can hardly be considered an impartial observer) no more egregious than the typical Harbor fare at worst.
It seemed to me like it could have gone somewhere fun, if given the chance. He has started threads in other forums that have gone on for multiple pages that touch on subjects never hinted in the initial question. The Swamp's "Has man landed on the Moon" thread ( http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103427 ) is my fave current incarnation of this example. Last I checked in we were dealing with quantum uncertainty principles, parallel universes, and time paradoxes. All with a humorous edge to it.
Sometimes you need to use a goofy premise to break the ice enough for folks to let thier guard down long enough to engage in some serious conversation.
But if threads get shut down before they ever stand a chance to blossom, how will we ever know?

Besides, in an "anything and everything" type forum, how serious and topical are the thread subjects supposed to be?

Nitro
07-08-2003, 12:06 AM
Not much to add, since I've been beaten to the punch, but I'm in agreement with both of 'em.

Redwing
07-08-2003, 09:05 AM
Maybe Neil mistakenly thought it was in a different forum besides the Harbor? :)

Zoom Rabbit
07-08-2003, 06:21 PM
Apparently, this is the wrong forum as well. None of the Harbor mods have bothered to respond to this appeal, even though I PM'd five of them about it...

:rolleyes: Being ignored isn't any fun, either. Who must I PM to have this matter looked into?

Nitro
07-08-2003, 06:23 PM
Aristotle. :D

edlib
07-08-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit
None of the Harbor mods have bothered to respond to this appeal, even though I PM'd five of them about it...
Perhaps they have decided not to like you.
A 'super-mod' might be able to help too. Niner's one of them...

Thrik
07-08-2003, 06:55 PM
If the mods of this forum have made a decision, going over their heads to a super mod isn't particularly wise.

bgbennyboy
07-08-2003, 06:58 PM
Stop moaning, its only a thread. Wait for Neil to reply..or not, if he doesnt want to reopen it then tough.

Ray Jones
07-08-2003, 08:00 PM
zoom.. how about restart a new poll..

:D :D :D


additional i have to say .. this thread wasnt needed to be closed, it was funny (thank you zoom for the constant raising mental level of your threads.. :p ) .. again it was a kill at will. proven by the polls result.

so be ashamed neil.. this was not nice.




*wears sticker 'please dont bann me'*

;)

Zoom Rabbit
07-08-2003, 09:26 PM
Nitro: You sure do like to start sh*t, don'tcha? :D

Bringing a bunch of mods and supermods from other forums wouldn't be helpful, I think. This is a different bailiwick, and it wouldn't be...friendly. :) I want to resolve this with the Monkey Island moderation team, or at least attempt to before I go and PM and bunch of admins.

I can't think of a *personal* reason why Neil would've closed that thread. I haven't done anything to him that I'm aware of... :dozey:

My theory is that he just got carried away in the ever-present battle against spam we're seeing these days. Friendly fire in this case, though. Perhaps my transponder codes are fouled? ;)

Yufster
07-08-2003, 10:36 PM
Actually, despite the fact I'm cold shouldering you at the moment, retard bunny... :D :D :D :D .... I agree the thread shouldn't have been closed.

edlib
07-08-2003, 11:10 PM
:rolleyes:

I dashed my last post off in a hurry, and forgot all the signs I have to use so people don't take me so seriously all the time.

It should have read thus:

"Perhaps they have decided not to like you. ;)
A 'super-mod' might be able to help too. Niner's one of them... :D

(and finally, the topper, just in case anyone missed the implications of all the other ones...)

:joy: ( <-- This is the smiley I use when I'm pulling your leg.)

Zoom Rabbit
07-08-2003, 11:46 PM
:dozey: This is the face I use when I'm...Hmm...what was the question?

No harm done, Ed. ;) Actually, their opinions are perfectly valid here in a feedback thread. Redwing has already weighed in. It would just be politically unwise for them to go and re-open the thread on their own...

As far as I know, Neil hasn't even seen this. His PM mailbox was full last I checked. I posted a message concerning it at the Harbor to flag his attention. :) I'm assuming he just hasn't been online yet.

Note: Yufster has publicly said that I'm on her 'retard list.' This means I'm good with you Harbor mods, right? Right? ;)

edlib
07-09-2003, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit
No harm done, Ed. ;) Actually, their opinions are perfectly valid here in a feedback thread. Redwing has already weighed in. It would just be politically unwise for them to go and re-open the thread on their own...
Yeah, I know... I was just playing along with Nitro's suggestion to "bring in the big guns!"
I wouldn't seriously expect anyone to overstep thier authority and reopen a thead in a forum that they don't normally visit.

And as far as the other thing goes: Who wouldn't like you? You're the Easter Bunny!
:joy:

Nitro
07-09-2003, 01:26 AM
What can I say... I'm like Winston Wolf from Pulp Fiction: I solve problems fast. :p

Redwing
07-09-2003, 11:50 AM
edlib: Haven't you read the sticky thread at the top of the forum? ;)

Oh, and speaking of which...I could make an ironic comment about porn stars and monkeys here about now, but I won't. ^_~

edlib
07-09-2003, 12:08 PM
You mean the thread with this quote in it?:

You cant really spam the harbour, thats what its there for, love it or hate it.

No,.. Sorry Red, I must have missed that one. ;)

bgbennyboy
07-09-2003, 12:16 PM
I was waiting for that, that was swift.

edlib
07-09-2003, 04:36 PM
Thank you, Feral Chicken! :)

Zoom Rabbit
07-09-2003, 05:01 PM
Thanks, Chicken! *Sniff* I'll never deep-fry another chicken strip or scramble another egg... ;)

Nitro
07-09-2003, 05:28 PM
Feral wins!

Ray Jones
07-09-2003, 05:49 PM
vive la rabbitance.

Joshi
07-11-2003, 07:00 AM
Okay, so I only just found this.

First, I'll adress the problem at hand. I closed a thread which people here clearly think is suitable in the Harbor. The Harbor has gained a reputation for having threads on it which are, in the bests respects, spam. fine, this is it's home, this is what it's like here and i can respect that (remember, I was a Harborer long before most of you came along, i know what it was like and how it's changed.) My main worry here was that this seemed to be a little to 'spamtastic' for my liking. Again, i say my liking and see the eror of my ways as not everyone has my liking. Even still, i believe i have to do what i think it right for the forum, a lot of the senseless threads around here had an entertainment value to them, but i could not se one here. Feral re-opened the thread and i was not going into a big thing about closing and re openeing it over and over again, so I just left it at that and realised that a lot of yopu were actually enjoynig the thread so i didn't want to get in the way. Why it's closed now, i don't know, but right now, I'm not going to step on anybodys shoes opening it again.

Secondly Zoom, that moonlanding thread is a cheap rip of of a thread we had on here about a year ago (annoyingly started by mek, although, surprisingly, not involving religion in any way). But i guess you never saw it. I'll find it for you if you want, and you can refer to it in your own thread.

Thirdly (oh, there's a lot of these) you said you'd PMed 5 of our mods. Were any of them by any chance me? Only I don't rememebr getting a PM from you about this.

Fourthly... Nope, that was it. Have a nice day.

Zoom Rabbit
07-11-2003, 07:13 AM
Why it's closed now is also beyond me. As are a lot lof threads over there. There are a lot of unhappy Harborites today, no doubt. :confused: A prank or retribution for us little forum members standing up for ourselves? I do hope it's the former, though I doubt it.

I tried to PM you, Neil. ;) First thing...but your mailbox is full.

About the moon-landing thread. :max: How can I rip off a thread I never knew existed? Besides, if you guys got into quantum theory in your thread, I'll personally strip naked and dance for bananas in town square...

edlib
07-11-2003, 12:16 PM
*Sigh*

The exact location of the fine line seperating "Spam" and "casual off-topic discussion" is one that has been debated since the introduction of the first electronic bulletin board, and will never be truly revealed in our lifetimes.

Just an observation: Usually, whenever I see people complaining about too much spam and not enough serious threads at a given forum, I also notice the ones doing the majority of the complaining aren't starting any serious threads themselves, or even doing all that much of the posting.
It always comes across as a case of sour-grapes.
You don't like the situation, but are taking no positive steps to change things to the way you wish they were... only negative actions. It's always easier to complain.

A forum always takes on a life of it's own depending on the most active member's personalities, wishes, and preferences. If the people who are doing all the posting have no problem with the way things are, then it seems to me those are the real standards on which the definition of what really is "Spam" should be seen.

Snapping shut most of the current open threads may cut down on what the moderation team has seen fit to define as spam, but that course of action could also alienate all your current non-mod members who started, were posting to, and enjoying those very threads.

It's seems to me that going from "too leinient" to "too heavy handed" in your moderation duties instantly is almost a sure-fire recipe to a dead forum in this instance. I have seen no sign that any new Monkey Island games are planned in the immediate future,.. so the influx of new members to this board, now only a trickle, could eventually dry up completely.

Taking steps that could very well lead to your current collection of active posters becoming frustrated, alienated, and eventually drifting away doesn't seem like a particlulary wise couse of action to me.

Personally, I feel that if you really wanted to change the nature of the Harbor and turn it around for the better, getting in there and mixing it up with the members as often as possible, starting threads on topics you feel appropriate, and steering conversations in more serious directions is a far better way towards achieving that objective than just locking out every thread you happen to not like,.. then making vindictive-feeling, off-hand public mockery of your current members.

On the other hand: If your goal is to get rid of the all people you don't like, so you can use this forum as a semi-private chat room for an exclusive group of mods, then the plan is genius, and you have already gone far towards achieving that goal.

bgbennyboy
07-11-2003, 12:34 PM
Dude you're so right. It IS genius.

Ray Jones
07-11-2003, 12:59 PM
*sigh*

zoom. i think everytime i go to this thread and say some it tends to get closed. for you satisfaction i will give you the right to close me, too!

and i think if we start a quantum theory thread .. over at the harbour. it gets closed too.

Zoom Rabbit
07-11-2003, 05:08 PM
Relax, Ray.

You see how these guys are being, don't you? :dozey: Bullies, plain and simple.

Ignore the children. ;)

bgbennyboy
07-11-2003, 05:33 PM
Thats correct, give me your dinner money right now.

Thrik
07-11-2003, 09:46 PM
Heh heh heh..

Ray Jones
07-12-2003, 08:24 AM
.. i already had lunch!

But how about.. asking my big brother.. over there..

ps. zoomie. i love to ignore everything you say me..

(Hey this was almost a relaxed wordgame.. eh?? ;) )

Cmdr. Cracken
07-12-2003, 01:07 PM
Niel, Cracken from teh RS.Net mod team... if you call one man a team. ^_^

anyway, the way i see it is to try to introduce new idea's of spam slowly, or not at all. Over at RSN.Net, the Downtime Lounge is basically your off-topic forums, not by choice mind you. I'd love to see RS.NET get back onto topic for RS, but i don't see that happening, with RS and RL and RL2 either obsolete, or not enough players.

So, i let them have thier fun, all the wile keeping an eye on the level of spam. I'm more lenient than most mods, probbaly, because i know my people. They're a good buncha yound adults and teens, a won't do anything horrendiously stupid, because they know i'm watching, and usually, that's enough.

The Harbor, as i understand it, is a completly different situation. It's designed and designated as an OFF-TOPIC forum. WHich, to me, means pretty much anything goes, within reason. Now, i do like your go to additude of trying to curb spam, but you have to realize something.

people have differnt ways of freeing the peoples reservations to open new lanes of conversation. That said, Zoom Rabbit does it in a very interesting, and off the wall way that works. Granted, may what look like spam to you, may actually be his way of opening people's minds and create a flow of ideas and conversation.

So, what is to be learned? simple. before you take action, you must get a feel for the new members coming in. That's why i usually give new posters a go for an intro thread, usually seen as spam, so i can get a feel for thier personality and things of that nature. true, it can clog teh forums, but it's the way i feel that works best for getting a feel for new people. That way, i can determine spam and such other things.

Now, you are relitivly new. I was at RS.Net when RS first came out many moons ago, in '97 or so. I've seen much more spam, flame wars, and pure idiocy spread acrossed the boards than you can imagine. (Any old RS.NET'rs will remember Hells wayyyyyyyy back in teh day.) ANd from that experience, i can determine and squelch flame wars and the like fairly easily. I think that what you did was simply because of in-experience, but that's okay, we all need to learn sometime. ^_^

in no way is this a flame, we're all apart of teh same team, but more so a post of some advice to help you in your moderating career. Of all things, a good mod knows his people, and gets to know people coming in. it's essential.

Good day, and see you 'round.

(ANd if i sound to high and mighty/preachy, sorry.)

Mort-Hog
07-12-2003, 01:28 PM
The moonlanding thread is boring boring boring. Ever since man did land on the moon, the Russians put forward claims that they didn't, pseudo-scientific points were made to back it up, and those points were disproved, rinse and repeat for the last 30 years. You'll find exactly the same discussion on practically ever single forum ever, and it is just another addition to the collection of tear-jerkingly dull threads.

Ray Jones
07-12-2003, 01:51 PM
word to cmdr. cracken

Joshi
07-12-2003, 02:30 PM
Edlib, who exactly are you refering to? Only one of the reasons I was chosen as a mod here was because I was a regular poster (also because I was sensible if any of you regular crazy people were getting your hopes up). For someone who doesn't visit these forums regularily, maybe you should get your facts right first. And yes, i haven't posted any new exciting and thought provoking threads here lately, adn that's basically because i know what the people here would do to it. But I've learnt to live with that, I've found other forums where I can speak about what I want and not fear it being turned into a spam thread.

Ray Jones, youre wrong, if we started a thread on quantum physics, I would gladly participate and keep it open (before it was turnede into complete and utter spam).

Cmdr. Cracken, you said that the harbor has a rep for being an Off Topic forum, yes, that is true, but believe me, it didn't used to be like that, this is only recently that this has happened. Like I said before, we had a moon landing thread on here which had no spam in there whatsoever, it was a very successfull if not contraversial topic. If I were to put that here now, how much do you want to bet that it'll turn spamtasic? The forums simply aren't what they used to be.

And finally Zoom, no we didn't go into quantum physics on our thread, we really didn't need to, most of our proof was right there.

edlib
07-12-2003, 03:52 PM
I was referring to the "Things I Hate About The Harbor" thread. Most of the people there had a lot of negative input, but until now I personally haven't seen most them making an effort to correct these trends they have seen. At least not recently, in the few weeks I've been hanging out, anyways.

I've seen a lot of talk here about "I hate how things have become..." but not a lot of butting into threads and asking "Where is this going, folks?" and giving a it a chance to pull out before locking the door. I haven't seen much in the way of "Hey! Let's talk about this instead..." but a lot of talk about how everyone here is a spammer. I have also seen some comments here that strike me as "This thread is junk, and you people are pathetic!" which isn't exactly positive reinforcement.

I'm still of the opinion that the best way to moderate is by positive example.

If you feel people are taking the topic of a thread you started too far off topic, say something! Save your thread,.. or accept the fact that it's going to go where it wants and enjoy the trip. Or try to find out what interests everybody if that topic just isn't doing it for them.

Zoom Rabbit
07-12-2003, 04:46 PM
So pretty much what I post here is considered spam?

Whatever. *(Leaves.)*

Thrik
07-12-2003, 05:11 PM
Seriously?!

Woohoo!

Ray Jones
07-12-2003, 07:58 PM
you're a craptalking furball zoom.

you're my idol.


*takes a :max: (TM)-Sticker and sticks it on thriks head*

*runs away*