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View Full Version : A whole new SWGB2


Compa_Mighty
07-08-2003, 02:10 AM
Many of us have talked a bout this could-be-game, and we seem to be proposing the same game we had with extra features, why don't we try thinking about something completely new?

pbguy1211
07-08-2003, 03:10 AM
you'd like to hope for that. however a new system would most likely be too buggy for them to bother creating when they can already lease another games' engine. the game wont sell because of the engine it uses, the game will sell itself because it's StarWars.

lukeiamyourdad
07-08-2003, 03:53 PM
Hey!

We're not proposing the same game!

It's supposed to be a sequel so it's really normal that similarities appear.

Compa_Mighty
07-08-2003, 10:20 PM
No, the same system is great, what I meant with my post is for example, why have the same civilizations?

For instance, I would eliminate Tech levels. The progress on your civ could only be reached through technologies. To avoid people researching something to the max too fast could be to research some other techs, in order to be able to upgrade troops, for example.

I'd take a couple civs out: Naboo and Trade Federation. Naboo isn't a militarized society, so they were a little forced into the game.

TF could be included in the Confederacy now, so you would have both Battle Droids and Super Battle Droids.

Of the existing civs, I'd keep the Republic, the Confederacy, The Gungans, the Wookiees, the Empire and the Rebel Alliance.

Jedi shouldn't be mass produced. They should be rare super units. For example, you have a large amount of resources, you use those resources to ask for a couple of Jedi to the Council, after some time, the Jedi arrive, and they are really tough. For the Sith you could do something similar, but obviously not to a council, maybe making direct connection with the Sith Master. (of course for uniqueness matters, the Empire and the Confederacy could be Dark by default, with a chance to turn to the light side, with specific circumstances. )*

A good thing that could be implemented is an AoM and Black and White-ish feature: while you build you civ, you have to go making several choices through techs, which would lead you to become a Dark sided civilization or a light-sided, depending on that, Jedi or Sith would aid you... I don't know... stuff like that, while the general system stays the same could make the game easy, yet completely fresh.

PS: Imagine, I would love Dark Gungans!!!

*We could still work on this to perfect it, it's just a rough idea.

SE_Vader_536
07-09-2003, 02:48 PM
that sounds like a great game to be...

only problem is... if they cant make it...

as stated so many times before lucasarts is more of a buy engine add star wars company when they get good sales (i.e. jedi knight 2, star wars galactic battlegrounds). so why would they make a new one when they can just buy a better one in their eyes...?

Compa_Mighty
07-09-2003, 04:19 PM
Well, sadly, that's true, but you could always borrow an engine and modify it...

lukeiamyourdad
07-09-2003, 06:35 PM
Compa_Mighty: Tech levels is just a question of taste of type of gaming. For me I don,t care as long as it's well placed.

Naboo have their place and so does the trade fed. if you mixed them together you couldn't recreate say the battle for naboo. And you won,t have any AAT, MTT and STAPs.

Jedi thingy: Agreed

AoM Black and White: I'm sorry but I don't see how you can really choose your path in SWGB. With AoM it worked but that was because of the tech lvls and you want to get rid of them.

Compa_Mighty
07-09-2003, 07:16 PM
Through technologies lukeiamyourdad, there'll be a point where you have to choose between two techs in a building, and according to the one you choose, the other one is no longer available and takes further into the Dark or Light side.

I don't have examples right now, but let me think.

Sithmaster_821
07-09-2003, 07:40 PM
I think Ages or Levels of some sort add order and rush guards to the game.

lukeiamyourdad
07-09-2003, 07:48 PM
It depends how the game is balanced sith. ages/tech lvls stop rushers but if you do it correctly, technologies only can be enough.

Compa_Mighty: Light or dark? How can the rebs be dark or the Empire be Light?

Sithmaster_821
07-09-2003, 07:55 PM
technologies only can be enough.
Like in WC3;)

Compa_Mighty
07-09-2003, 07:57 PM
Sound strange I know, but it wpuld be an additional strategic thing, light and Dark would offer you different bonuses, and of course Jedi and Sith would work differently.

Anyway, nothing is completely good or completely bad, and it can easily change, one thing that could be done is that once that you chose one side of the Force you can't go back in the rest of the game.

Of course this system would have to be tweaked until perfected...

DK_Viceroy
08-12-2003, 08:01 PM
I agree with Compa you could work that except have instead of a god a leader like for empire you could pick from three they could be the emporer grand admiral thrawn and general veers. For each one you could have different abilities structures units and technologies. I've already posted more of this on another thread and have the feeling that even if it had perfect punctuation and evrything which i mostly fixed i think some people would kill me if i put that 8000 word monster in here.

Compa_Mighty
08-12-2003, 08:49 PM
I actually hadn't thought of the Leaders instead of gods idea. I only thought about Light and Dark, but as lukeiamyourdad pointed out, it wouldn't work.

On the other hand, yours could, although I'd still like another game model rather than a borrowed one.

lukeiamyourdad
08-12-2003, 10:56 PM
I do not believe leaders could work also. This kills the purpose of having already a ratehr large number of unique civs(averaging between 7 and 10 unique civs). It's pure suicide if you wanted to add 3 leaders per civs. It will not be possible.

However, I thought we could implement a certain system enhancing either one aspect for a certain civ over another aspect.
Like the Rebels for an example:

Their strengths are air and infantry. So why not having a choice between them? You could choose at a certain part of the game to either concentrate on your infantry or your air(This is just enhancing infantry not downgrading air which means that if you choose infantry, your airforce will still be one of the best in the game). If you decide infantry, you will receive better upgrades for them and if you choose air you will receive better upgrades for air.

I believe it makes some sense and could be applied to almost any civ since this is basically just upgrades.

Admiral Vostok
08-14-2003, 01:07 AM
Hmm, that idea I like, Luke's Dad. Similar ideas in the past have enabled concentration in all areas, but limiting it to just those two or three areas in which the civ already excels would be a great way to add diversity within the civ, without going against the civs actual fighting style.

Very nice indeed.

*Steals and incorporates into Vostok's SWGB2 plan*

Compa_Mighty
08-14-2003, 02:20 AM
Yeah, good idea indeed.

Darth Windu
08-15-2003, 10:43 AM
Actually i have already incorporated lukes idea into my own before i read this post. My basic idea is that instead of researching technology (new units and upgrades) you invest in SWGB2. There would be three basic areas in which to invest, Civic, Economic and Military. Civic increases pop cap, allows new buildings etc, Economic increases worker speed and other economic benefits, Military discovers new units and better weapons/armour etc.
You would also be able to use an advanced function allowing you to invest in sub-areas, such as Infantry, Mechs, Aircraft or Ships in the Military section, with the pace of new technology proportional to the amount of credits you invest in that particular field.

Darth Windu
08-15-2003, 10:49 AM
Actually i have already incorporated lukes idea into my own before i read this post. My basic idea is that instead of researching technology (new units and upgrades) you invest in SWGB2. There would be three basic areas in which to invest, Civic, Economic and Military. Civic increases pop cap, allows new buildings etc, Economic increases worker speed and other economic benefits, Military discovers new units and better weapons/armour etc.
You would also be able to use an advanced function allowing you to invest in sub-areas, such as Infantry, Mechs, Aircraft or Ships in the Military section, with the pace of new technology proportional to the amount of credits you invest in that particular field.

lukeiamyourdad
08-15-2003, 02:34 PM
Sounds a lot like Civ3;) and you double posted.

Hmmm... come to think of it, it looks more like a gestion game. Although it could be possible...

When you invest, how much time until you get the particular new unit/building/gather speed upgrade?

DK_Viceroy
08-15-2003, 06:40 PM
When i said Leaders i didn't mean changing it radicaly i meant similar to your idea Luke's dad where i'll use empire as example you could choose between Grand Admiarl Thrawn The Emporer and General Veers for Thrawn you would get extra spaceship bonuses on top of the empire's spacehip bonuses { i think everybody agrees that in swgb 2 one of the empire's specialties wouyld be Speacehips} and maybe a unique unit of the TIE Sicmitar bomber and dark froce dreadnaught.Maybe as well unqiue techs that would enhance spacehips maybe one called Enspired Leadership which could increae acuracy of spaceships and maybe make some cheaper and maybe the option to upgrade some ships with a claoking device. For the Emporer you would have enhanced sith and fighters with a unique ability for sith/jedi where that when near fighters or on spaceshiips increase co-ordination between them and increases accuracy and efficiency and maybe also for fighters and make them vastly cheaper and give them the unqiue unit of a TIE Phantom. Whcih the emporer was presented with the designs for shortly before the prototypes and production facilities for them were destroyed by the rebel alliance and a uqniue technology of Imposing Leader ship which would make most units a little more tougher and maybe when converted have a 50-50 chence of suiciding. For General Veers you could have better mechs and the unique unit of the MT-AT which is more powerful than an AT-AT and more accurate but a little less well armoured. also you could have unique technology of Frontline Leadership where attacks are more co-ordinated and AT-AT's attack increases when they in groups. For this leader system it would just be to add a few unqiue technologies in adn unique unts in nothing major propably only a max of 5 new units per leader and 3 technologies and a handful of bonuses it wouldn't be anything major and it would add a touch of realism to the game it's nothing major that i'm suggesting just a handfulo of units to make civ's a little less predicatble and would make for better gameplay

Darth Windu
08-16-2003, 01:41 PM
luke - yeah, sorry bout that. The comp was stuffing up, it happened in another post aswell but i got that one.

With time relative to new technology/units/buildings etc that would be up to the developers to balance, coz im not a game designer. What i can say is that the more credits you invest in a particular area, the faster those upgrades/units etc become available to you. Also, upgardes would become instantly applied when 'discovered'.

lukeiamyourdad
08-16-2003, 07:24 PM
Are you a Civilization serie fan Windu? 'Cause it really sounds like that!

Any way how are you supposed to "invest"? Does is consume your credit slowly? Or do you have to put a whole lot of credit all in one time?

Darth Windu
08-17-2003, 07:30 AM
Actually i've never played Civillsation, i got the idea from Rise of Nations and thought it was a far superior idea to the current research thingy with SWGB.

With the investing, i would use a percentage system, in that you make it so that, say, 10% of your funds are dedicated to military research, which then gradually eats your credits.

lukeiamyourdad
08-17-2003, 02:26 PM
well RoN probably ripped it off civilization...

anyway, it sounds like it would fit RoNStarWars or CivilizationStarWars. I doubt it will sound like much of a RTS thing.
Anyway...

What is supposed to happen when you don't have enough credits anymore? Do you get a minus x amount of credit per x amount of time and the research things continues to hmmm...research or does it simply stops?

Darth Windu
08-19-2003, 09:43 AM
Well actually RoN is an RTS. Anyway, i think it would be that it takes out X% every, say, 5 minutes or something, i would have to see how these other games do it to get a better idea. If you ran out of money, it would stop.

I think it would fit really well in SWGB2 because it then means that you dont have to constantly keep going back to your research station to see if the current one is finished, or which you have, or if you can afford the next one etc. Overall it leads to less micromanagement and more emphasis on the military and battles.

Sithmaster_821
08-19-2003, 10:21 PM
Well actually RoN is an RTS
Actually, RoN is a turn based game that plays in real-time. They borrowed nearly all of their "features" from either the Civ series or the Age series, a fact that is painfully obvious to anyone who has played an Age game (the earlier ones, like AoE. Ensemble has moved more mainstream/faster paced since then) and a Civ game.

Darth Windu
08-20-2003, 05:46 AM
RoN plays in real time. It is strategy. It is therefore a Real-Time Strategy game.

Admiral Vostok
08-20-2003, 10:06 AM
The idea has merit, though I'd rather have more control over what gets researched and when.

Darth Windu
08-22-2003, 12:21 PM
Understood, which is why i added the 'advanced' options of, for example, Mechs, Aircraft, Ships, Infantry for the Military section. Perhaps there could be another subset of each being Armour, Firepower, Speed etc?

Admiral Vostok
08-23-2003, 12:16 AM
What of special abilities such as (using examples from SWGB1 which we all know) shields, AT-AT anti-air ability, homing missiles, etc. I'd prefer to select stuff when I want it in the order I want it, rather than have it all automated for me. It might be annoying if you forget to upgrade something, but by using that argument you could equally say "I want the computer to automate all my miltary tactical decisions, and I'll just sit back and watch. I'll tell it where to attack and it will build up a suitable force for me by itself."

lukeiamyourdad
08-23-2003, 12:48 AM
hmmm...

If it was doable like Civ3 then maybe it is possible(yes there is a tech tree in civ3). If there's a correct tech tree( tech1 and 2 allows to start research on tech3) then I don't what's wrong.
Done right nothing is wrong.

Darth Windu
08-23-2003, 03:17 AM
Vostok - everything has advantages and disadvantages. Of course, with this system, you cant choose exactly what you are researching, but how is that different in the real world? The way i see it, the advantage of having more time to concentrate on building and using your military outweights the loss of researching specific technologies. Remember, its 'Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds' not 'Star Wars Economic Battlegrounds'.

Also, things like shields would come under civic technology (its defensive), and things like ATAT's shooting air would come under the 'Mech' subset. Until then, you would use your TIE's or Missile Troopers to keep the heat of your mechs.

Admiral Vostok
08-23-2003, 05:43 AM
Well I guess it's do-able. I don't have that much against it except I prefer the way it is now.

Oh and Windu you should have said "It's Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds not Star Wars Galactic Economic-grounds." That would have been more relevant since I wasn't debating whether the focus was on "Galactic" or not. :D

Darth Windu
08-23-2003, 08:37 AM
Yeah, but i thought mine sounded better.

w@ck0
08-25-2003, 05:22 AM
i do not know if this has been thrown out there yet, but why not try to drift away from the basic RTS type gameplay. Why not make this game RPGish in its upgrades and RTSish in its gameplay. I think one of the major issues with RTS games today is we waste so much time on this time-frame progression... or making sure we have 8,000 races to select from... Not enough time on the actual game. SWGB1 was a great example of a failing gameply style... RoN would have also failed if it had not implemented some of its own innovations. I think in Starwars We have a lot of room to play around with. Why not make this a massive game that is takes more then 15 min to win... Why not make an economic aspect of the game... which instead of the local aspects we have a galaxy based aspects. Units have differents weapons based on there experiance or training. make this game a little bit more involved then the normal RTS game.
I mean whats the hurt going to be ? nothing... Also there was a statement made in another thread.. something like " Do we need to make a new SWGB ? the answer is NO.. Do we need to make a good Star Wars RTS? The answer is yes" I assure you that if lucas makes another RTS game it will be nothing like SWGB. The game needs to be unquie in itself and I think there are hundreds of ideas and possibilities in this era... that could be put in place to make a game like this worth playing.