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Wraith 8
07-08-2003, 10:39 AM
erm...

i had some complaints about me.
that i have been stealing people's professions under their noses. and that i have been stealing their hides and bones. oh and dont forget money.

i could turn this into a joke sayinf stealing is impossible in swg :D but i wont :p

we had architects in game. one i knew would become one. he changged... now i was not sure if we ever were going to have an architect. we have 70 members ... I CANT REMEMBER every single detaill.. im sorry for that... its just to hard. im not being sorry for myself here.. im just.... to many things on my mind for this PA.

i chose architect as my profession and emidiatly like 2 or 3 people became mad at me for saying i stole their purpose. they decided on other professions and one is still going for architect.
people.. we can have more then one person in a profession..... its doesnt matter if we have we have 20 marksman.. why wouls it matter if we had 4 architects?
and about the PA hall.. if you architect want to build the PA hall.. thats fine with me.... i dont care....

about the hides and bones and recources and money. ill explain what i do with it:
the hides and bones:
im making bone armore suits with them. cause that way i get a high amount of experience on them and that way i reach architect just a bit faster. I NEVER said anything that people HAD to give me the hides and bones.... or else....
if you want to keep it... keep it... i honestly dont care... :D dont makje a fuss about it.
The recources:
i have almost all recources together to build our PA hall.... but we dont have a master architect... and? so i cant be prepared that on the moment one of our architects reaches master we will have a PA hall...
and again.. if you dont WANT to give.... DONT! i will get it on my own.... dont make a problem out of it......
the money:
the money is for all of you
you need to travel to a spot and your seriously low on cash... i fund you. you need a blaster and out own wepaonsmith hasnt been able to get it and its too expensive for you.. i fund you.
you REALLY want a house but you only have like 4000 i will fund you the 6000.
and again.. if you dont WANT to give,., then PLEASE DONT!

i hate to become the thief of the PA by this.. im ASKINg for stuff.. not commanding.

so from now on.. if you want to keep stuff... keep it. Im not mad ... or disapointed.... and i wont be.... i dont want to be a terrible leader..

-Wraith 8-

Toonces
07-08-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Wraith 8
i dont want to be a terrible leader..

Your not, far from it.

Don't be discourged by a few people who don't understand what all you have to do as the leader of a PA.

As open as this PA is, your bound to have a few bad sports.

Your welcome to my extra (which is substantial at times) resources anytime :D

Murashu
07-08-2003, 11:18 AM
I did a poll on the website about this topic and I was surprised to see that out of 23 votes 6 were against funding PA members advancement. I think if people understood more about why we give money or resources to the PA then there would be less people against it therefore less people complaining about it.

Funding profession development....

If I spend my personal money on all my medic and doctor training I will have spent 175,000 credits on training alone. This doesnt include the resources required to get there. This is just the money going to the NPC trainers.

Once I get to the level of master doctor I can train all levels of medic and doctor skills for free to anyone who wants it. That means I can train all the PA medics and doctors so they don't have to spend 175,000 credits like I did. So this saves them tons of money that has already been spent once.

It's different for resources since each person still has to have the same amount of resources to train with but the PA can help with that too.

If everyone in the PA chipped in money to 1 person in every profession and helped push them along we could have a master in every profession willing to train everyone for free. The way it is now we have a bunch of people competing against each other for money and resources and it is holding the whole PA back.

If we all act as a team instead of 50 individuals we can accomplish things in game much faster and with less headaches.


A note on the stealing part....I don't think anyone is accusing you of stealing. I know some people are upset that they have been pushed aside and thier progressions have been put on hold while the PA is busy helping you gather reasources and money to push you on the path of making our PA hall. I think that could have been prevented if we would have had better communication on the forums. For the first week Vega was the only person in the PA who was powerleveling himself toward a master artisan career. He has made bone armor for the majority of the PA fighters who helped him by providing hides and bone. He was even spending his own credits to buy the resources to make us armor. But now that thier is a new Artisan in game and the one that is going to build our PA hall, all help to Vega has stopped which pretty much stops his career. And I know there are other artisans in the same boat I am just using Vega as an example.

If this had been discussed before it happened we could have prevented alot of the complaints but we didnt so now we have a few pissed off players. All we can do now is move on and hope we learn from our mistakes. Communication is the key.

I do hope the credits we raise by doing PA hunts actually goes to something better than buying someone a house. Houses are not needed and shouldnt be even considered for purchase unless you can afford them. If you cant figure out how to get the 10,000 credits to buy a house in 1 day then you really should not own a house. I was under the impression that the PA hunts were raising money for the PA Hall which meant paying for Corzips master artisan and master architect career. If that is not the case then count on me for hides and bones but dont look for anymore money contributions ;)

Wraith 8
07-08-2003, 11:34 AM
you all need think about my position here.. i dont have to take one peron in to account.. i have to deal with 70 people so they are all happy.....

and my god am i trying to do that.

Murashu
07-08-2003, 11:39 AM
You won't please everyone all the time. You can make them aware of your intentions though so they arent upset later on because they thought they were helping a cause and find out that wasnt the case :)

Wraith 8
07-08-2003, 11:52 AM
ok i understand. i think i finally get to see the point Ride had so long ago.. i wished we listened then.....

im not mad.... just enormously confused.

i need some time off.
edit: ok here is what i decided to do.... im going to go solo from now on.. im notleaving the PA ro anything.. but im going to get where i want on my own.

ill give all things to ka'lar so he can advance to architect.
ill donate all money i have to murashu... if you feel i have anything that is yours... ask ka'lar or ask me.
i just need a break.. thats all./... also i will clear my list for a while.. i want to go absolutely solo.

Murashu
07-08-2003, 12:23 PM
I understand your frustration but I think you should stick with it for now especially with the huge need for leadership as we are beginning to grow.

Things will get worse without the leadership there guiding everyone. :(



/ooc im off to work, catch you all later.

Ride
07-08-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Wraith 8
you all need think about my position here.. i dont have to take one peron in to account.. i have to deal with 70 people so they are all happy.....

and my god am i trying to do that.

Please capitalize God. Thank you.

Anyway, I have not given anything because I never see any of you....

Wraith 8
07-08-2003, 12:30 PM
yeah but i have been trying all week.. and to be honest.. i see all PA members having huge fun.. and all i can do is think about stuff how to arrange it... i think its time for me to have some fun....

dow_30
07-08-2003, 12:48 PM
No one that I know of said you were stealing. We also eralize it is an enormous responsibility you bear. I, for one, could not handle it. I also think the last thing we need is for you to go solo. We need strong leadership at this time. Other PA's went 24/7 form day one and we were a bit disorganized out of the gate. But we need you the hold it together. I have no problem assisting you and anyone else getting where they are going. Hell, I practically give the armor away and whatever resources I have, and I am willing to train anyone for free. The better equipped and more knowledge we have, the better of the =A= are.


This is not a race, we simply cannot compete with the huge powergringing PA's. We are not them, and that is fine. We need a leader though, I implore you, do not solo, or I fear that this will all fall apart. I think the =A= best days are ahead if we can survive the growth.

Jackrabbit
07-08-2003, 12:54 PM
If you need any help Wraith, I'd be glad to lend a hand.

Jatari Bazrak
07-08-2003, 01:20 PM
Hey wraith, I'm here to back you up. I know it's hard being a leader I was one as well. Also I will give you stuff to advance I know that we need this PA hall up because with out it we aren't a PA. And was wanting to team up with u, so don't go solo I'm here to help you out.:D

Taos
07-08-2003, 01:39 PM
Let me know what else I can do to help Wraithy. :)

Jan Gaarni
07-08-2003, 02:52 PM
And I'm always here.

Yes, I know, I'm still vet behind the ears, and last night was confusing, but you, me, and eventually Sets' job, is to find out what is needed to be done, then delegate it down to the others to take care of it. If that means shoving some of the stuff over to me and/or Set, or anyone else, then do it. I think there are more than enough people here who are willing to take responsability for an assignment.

And about the PA:

Raise your hand those who actually had a goal set in their mind to design and build the PA Hall.

I did a poll on the website about this topic and I was surprised to see that out of 23 votes 6 were against funding PA members advancement. I think if people understood more about why we give money or resources to the PA then there would be less people against it therefore less people complaining about it.
To those that voted against fundings for members advancment, also concider this:
The money will not only go to players advancement, but also other things, such as rent for instance.

"Rent?
What rent?"

Yes, rent. I don't know if everyone knows this, but getting the PA Hall is expensive. Not only that, but keeping the PA Hall is expensive.

"How expensive?"

Roughly 3200 Cr ... every day. :eek:

And that's just the PA Hall.
Later, other structures will be erected which will also cost money for upkeep, and this will all add up to a very hefty bill eventually ... every day. :D

Altus_Thrawn
07-08-2003, 04:48 PM
I am sorry about lots of what I did.

I was considering going away from architect before I knew you were going to be one. When I said stuff about stealing my purpose and all I was just joking. I hope no offense was taken. I feel really bad now because it seems I made you doubt yourself. Don't do that.

I think you are overworking youself a bit much-You want to be a smuggler. Go for it. I'm sure meridian and outside architects can handle the building crafting.

If you want to be an architect then also go for it.

And your an awsome leader wraith.


God I feel so bad about what I said.

As for the poll, I thought that was in RL like to keep up the website. I would gladly donate ingame.
And please, please, please Wraith don't go solo.

Deathstalker
07-08-2003, 11:51 PM
Wraith, corzip my friend you gotta stay thus far you have been a great leader and yes I completely admit I got frustrated on the hunt the other day but that was my own doing. If you want to go solo for a while I understand because I did a lot of that the first week that the game was out and it can be fun; however, being part of a group is more fun and well damn it we need you. The money issue is going to be up there until we appoint a treasurer who then can help out. As far as stealing I am very very very upset that anyone would say that to you. I truly feel that what we need as a PA is to have everyone meet online together that has the game.

Murashu
07-09-2003, 02:55 AM
As for the stealing comments that everyone has made a big deal out of Altus made a joke about Wraith stealing his purpose in the game. He didnt accuse him of stealing money or anything like that.

Altus was wanting to build the PA Hall and 1 week later Wraith announced that he was now going to build the PA Hall. Altus was a little upset about this decision as well as a few others that had been working towards this goal.

Altus feels bad enough about this without people making a big deal about a comment taken out of context.

I think we need to work on communication and try not to get so easily offended when someone has a different opinion. If you tell me you dont like my ideas I'm not going to throw up my hands and run away from the issue.

Murashu
07-09-2003, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by Jan Gaarni
Raise your hand those who actually had a goal set in their mind to design and build the PA Hall.


Personally I think crafting sucks and is a dead end profession so no I do not want to be a builder :P

I will gladly kill anything you want though and give you hides bones and money to build it ;)

Altus_Thrawn
07-09-2003, 08:10 AM
I never had it in my mind to build the hall actually-I didn't want to grind all the way tehre. But I did have it in my mind to be an architect.

I have no problem with wraith and Meridian going for architect. I am happy going for weaponsmith. I think this is all behind me, or at least I want it to be.

Wraith 8
07-09-2003, 10:07 AM
First:
Im not leaving you all. im just doing somethings on my own (and even that doesnt work always). I emidiatly realise how hard it is on your own without people helping out. the hide and bone i needed to get experience are extremely rare to me now. im hunting gnorts and ikopi's at a remote location on Naboo for them. but it takes forever.
I have 9 harvesters up on Naboo right now. i found some large percentages of copper and steel and im going for them now.
I will be abck with you lot. but not just now.

Second:
You all scream for leadership :D i find that very weird... it hink its all in your minds about leadership.. tell me honestly.. these first days.... what did i do? where did i lead you lot? you all went on quests on your own.... i think its just the thought of it...
yes i did arrange a lot with other PA's... but still.. i didnt really LEAD you all.

Third:
im on my own now on a location far from any settlement on Naboo. i got a Naboo house and some harvesters. i made Novice architect last night. (thanx omir ill pay you double). Ka'lar (meridian) and me have been talking about the profession. im going to go for furniture and he is going for housing. that way we can teach eachother later. im half way to furniture one. and if he want to build the PA hall. by all means he can... at the beginning of the game a lot of people I DIDNT know what they wanted went for architect without me knowing..... i cant know everything.

Just you all relax.. im not gone.... just solo-ing right now

-Wraith 8-
-Corzip Dinn-

Krentz
07-09-2003, 02:31 PM
..........yea, i havent really been a part of the PA long enough to judge but i think what you've done so far is basicly what a leader does do, he doesnt "lead" everyone, he arranges, gives ideas, he tells people what to do, that giving a "safe" feeling, it makes people think they are being led, because they are contributing at your orders

Altus_Thrawn
07-09-2003, 03:28 PM
I agree with Krentz. It is morst likely the thought of leadership more than the actual thing.

Some things you did, many of them for me:
1) When I first arrived on Correlia you were tehre to greet me, and you made me feel useful when surveying.
2) You told me about how good bone armour can be for crafting xp.
3) You gave me many tips threw the /tells
4) You organized that great PA hunt.
5) You taught me DA 1 and Engi 4.

There are many more but I must go now, I'll list more later.

Krentz
07-09-2003, 03:31 PM
exactly

Opa
07-09-2003, 06:50 PM
Sorry I didn't go architect as I planned on doing..when I got them game that profession didn't really interest me anymore and I started a new profession that I thought could Help the PA and that I would like, oh and wraith You're a great leader :D

Murashu
07-10-2003, 01:31 AM
I think this is why people are wanting some leadership actions. We are not operating as a PA, we are like 50 friends who help each other occasionally but have no focus.

Right now everyone does what they want and it is slowing down the progression of the PA. Leadership is what is needed to give people tasks and follow up on if they are getting the tasks accomplished or not. If you ask someone to do something to help and they blow you off, task someone else and remember who didnt want to be part of the team.

If we had leadership each person would know what thier job in the PA is and would hopefully have fun doing thier job. Right now we log on, talk to a few people in tells (because no one uses the PA chat) and end up soloing or doing 2-3 man groups.


Originally posted by Wraith 8
[B]Second:
You all scream for leadership :D i find that very weird... it hink its all in your minds about leadership.. tell me honestly.. these first days.... what did i do? where did i lead you lot? you all went on quests on your own.... i think its just the thought of it...
yes i did arrange a lot with other PA's... but still.. i didnt really LEAD you all./B]

Aadenae
07-10-2003, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by Wraith 8
i dont want to be a terrible leader..

-Wraith 8-

Don't say that! I know I'm not in your group but reading your posts and seeing your leadership qualities is making me think more and more about joining a PA. You have very good ideas and seem very organized. I don't see why people would get upset over things they don't even understand.

Deathstalker
07-10-2003, 03:38 AM
I a agree with Murashu here. We need some sort order and goals, beyond the guild hall. And on a side note i have no idea how the chat room in game works. I mean I know how to access the chat room and get in it and when you type it is in orange but I never get any responses when I type.

Wraith 8
07-10-2003, 10:27 AM
i see....

then i think its time to get jan fully set for this game and help me out :D

and bout the chatroom. i really would likt to use it more.. but like you said.. iget a million tells from peopl asking me all kinds of stuff :D i dont get to see those tells on the chat room... so i tend to just stay with the first basic screen.

Koenig
07-10-2003, 05:09 PM
You have to remember that no leader can please 100% of the people 100% of the time. If you try too hard to keep everyone happy then your'll have no fun yourself and probably start moaning therefore making other people unhappy. Its a vicious circle. Leadership comes naturally to you, you don;t need to try hard you just need to be yourself, keep orders to a minimum and make sure their worded correctly and your'll have no problems. Delegate things to the appropriate division leaders to split the work load and things will work much better.

Oh and to avoid the tell problem tell them to use the in game mail and to keep the tells free for critical things (Like I'm being agrod)

Koenig