PDA

View Full Version : Duelers: New Multiple Blades Stances?


Marker0077
07-11-2003, 04:11 PM
Okay folks, I am sure most of you know the routine. I am taking up a variety of polls up in a variety of places because I want to get some feedback from you on some ideas I've been having. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your time now. It helps make an already phenomenal mod even more incredible. http://duelers.jk2files.com/various/grin.gif

Anyways, to the topic at hand, I want to make a few changes to the existing Orange & Purple stances like...

#1) Orange does about the same damage as Red & Purple does the about same damage as Blue. Since there is no middle stance, Orange is faster than Red & Purple is faster than Blue.
http://duelers.jk2files.com/temp/multi_stances_diff.jpg
I made the New Fast Stance by combining the Blue & Yellow stances, then I made the New Hard Stance by combining the Red & Yellow stances (there is a little difference between old & new with hard stance).

So #1 is, I want to change the colors of the 2 stances.

#2) I think the Crab Twirl (Purple special) would make a great counter attack move, except it just takes too damn long.

So #2 is, I think the Crab Twirl should be faster & less damaging (less damaging to compensate for the speed increase).

#3) I think that the Vertical Twirl (Orange special) should always spin counter-clockwise (looking from above the player doing the move, like third person view) instead of rotating between clockwise & counter-clockwise.

Clockwise just isn't as useful as counter-clockwise is. Hits tend to connect more with counter-clockwise & people like to turn with the spin (like the 1.03 back attack days) to connect more hits, so this helps out a bit there as well.

#4) Fix the Orange damage in Duelers 1.3. It does the same damage as Purple but it is not supposed to.

#5) This is no biggie but I would like to see some new idle animations. There was some new stances mod out some time ago, perhaps some of those animations could be used for multiple blades? I don't remember the mod all that well, I do remember the idle animation stances it used for Blue, Yellow & Red sucked but perhaps with multiple blades it would be different. Maybe get some different idle animations just for dual sabers, then the dual bladed sabers would still use the existing? I don't know, just throwin' ideas out.

Why we default extra stances & all stances off
All this section does is go into some reasons why we default extra stances & all stances off since that is somewhat on this topic.

We recommend (& default) all stances & extra stances (single saber uses blue, yellow & red only; multiple blades use Orange & Purple stances only) for a variety of reasons...

#1) If you were to enable dual dual bladed sabers, having defense on all 4 corners will probably block a lot of swings players never even meant to block (as well as hit) which takes a bit of skill out of the duels.

#2) Animations with the blue, yellow & red stances go through the player model with multiple blades (in other words, it looks lame).

#3) Switching between 5 stances fast is more difficult to do than switching between 3 stances fast & does tend to mess up fast counter attacks.

#4) The Orange & Purple stances have been set up for balanced gameplay without the traditional 3 stances. Orange does about the same damage as Red & Purple does the about same damage as Blue. Since there is no middle stance, Orange is faster than Red & Purple is faster than Blue.

#5) The Orange & Purple specials are at least twice as damaging with multiple blades where with the Blue, Yellow & Red stances, it makes no differance at all.

Amidala from Chop Shop
07-12-2003, 12:18 AM
First of all, great mod, I am nagging people on my server like hell to download it, and I'm directing them to another server that I am running Duelers Mod on so they can try it out. Some people have complained that the Orange and Purple stances are TOO WEAK. Typical comment: "2 sabers look cool but dont do much". I enabled all stances for special sabers (saber staff and 2 sabers) so they would do SOMETHING, but I agree that makes them too strong when using Red, Yellow, or Blue. Orange and Purple are useless with single sabers and I agree it just complicates switching stances. Ideally there should be 3 stances for special sabers that correspond to the single saber stances (strong, medium, fast), but each just a little less powerful than the single saber stances to provide balance. Using single saber with a small character like Ugnaught or Yoda defeats most normal-size characters with saber staff or 2 sabers. My players figured this out very quickly and the server soon looked like The Battle of the Midgets with a bunch of Yodas and Ugnaughts darting about.

Also, the Duelers documentation is superb, EXCEPT for the part about installation. I wish it was more detailed and explicit about putting the entire Duelers folder in the GameData folder. I have nagged a lot of people into downloading Duelers Mod, but then they don't install it correctly and get frustrated when they cant join the server. I think the problem is that they are used to installing skins and maps, not mods, so they take the .pk3 files out the Duelers folder and put them in the Base folder, as they are used to doing with maps and skins. Please make the installation instructions more "noob-proof" with step-by-step instructions, so more people will use your great mod. I am hoping that all my regular players can get it working so we can use it for an upcoming tournament.

Marker0077
07-12-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by AdminAmidala
First of all, great mod, I am nagging people on my server like hell to download it, and I'm directing them to another server that I am running Duelers Mod on so they can try it out.You should see more servers in the next few weeks. Once I have Duelers Full done, I plan on stepping up the media quite a few notches.Originally posted by AdminAmidala
Some people have complained that the Orange and Purple stances are TOO WEAK. Typical comment: "2 sabers look cool but dont do much". I enabled all stances for special sabers (saber staff and 2 sabers) so they would do SOMETHING, but I agree that makes them too strong when using Red, Yellow, or Blue.First of all, I never said they are too strong in Blue, Yellow or Red stances. I said they are pointless. You do not gain anything from multiple blades in Blue, Yellow or Red stances. In Orange & Purple stances however, you gain a lot by using multiple blades.

With a single saber, an Orange special would do about 75 damage, maybe 150 if you turn with the swing & get an additional hit in. With multiple blades, you get twice as much damage (using reverse blades with this special is very useful). So all in all, you can do over 200 damage in a single special in that stance with multiple blades. The same concept applies to Purple but not as much.

This also applies with the standard movement, parrying, attacks, etc; etc. in these 2 stances as well. With the traditional 3 stances, again, multiple blades give you no advantage. They are useless.

Orange & Purple do plenty. You just have to know how to use them is all. The Purple left-right manuever is nice, so is the combo-ing vertically in Orange, however, without Orange doing the correct damage, it is a huge drawback. I am hoping Lee will have some time to fix the mod & will be willing to add these new improvement ideas. I am going to encourage a quick fix update but I doubt he will be interested. We shal see what happens.Originally posted by AdminAmidala
Orange and Purple are useless with single sabers and I agree it just complicates switching stances.That's not entirely true. There is some advantage with using the additional stances with single sabers but nothing the traditional 3 stances do not give already & more. The 2 new stances were designed for multiple blades. The multiple blades themselves do not do anything in the first 3 stances at all. No matter what move you do, only 1 blade is used; So what's the point?Originally posted by AdminAmidala
Ideally there should be 3 stances for special sabers that correspond to the single saber stances (strong, medium, fast), but each just a little less powerful than the single saber stances to provide balance.This is what they are doing in JK3 but we do not have the tools to do this for JK2. All we can do is change existing stances, not make new ones.Originally posted by AdminAmidala
Using single saber with a small character like Ugnaught or Yoda defeats most normal-size characters with saber staff or 2 sabers. My players figured this out very quickly and the server soon looked like The Battle of the Midgets with a bunch of Yodas and Ugnaughts darting about.I have that same problem. Scaled gameplay is balanced out differently in Duelers Full by default. FYI, Purple is useful for fighting against smaller scaled models.

In Duelers Full, smaller models hit lighter but faster, larger models hit slower but harder. Larger models saber length is capped off at 1.0 (standard size) & the Yoda & Ugnaught models are 40% smaller & their saber length is 30% smaller. Since smaller models have 2 advantages, this provides 2 disadvantages. Since this is not really so much the case with larger models vs standard size models, larger models (like Desann) only have 1 advantage (damage).

In Basic, there is no scaled damage & the only way of balancing out the model size difference, is the saber length.Originally posted by AdminAmidala
Also, the Duelers documentation is superb, EXCEPT for the part about installation. I wish it was more detailed and explicit about putting the entire Duelers folder in the GameData folder. I have nagged a lot of people into downloading Duelers Mod, but then they don't install it correctly and get frustrated when they cant join the server. I think the problem is that they are used to installing skins and maps, not mods, so they take the .pk3 files out the Duelers folder and put them in the Base folder, as they are used to doing with maps and skins. Please make the installation instructions more "noob-proof" with step-by-step instructions, so more people will use your great mod. I am hoping that all my regular players can get it working so we can use it for an upcoming tournament.Boy, is Duelers Full ever going to be up your alley. First of all, if you think the documentation in Duelers Basic is great, wait until you see the Duelers Full manual. It is waaaaay better. Much more detailed. You can view the existing HTML version of it on the webpage now.

As for the installation, Duelers Full will feature an actual installer, no zip files. That's about as "n00b-proof" as you're going to get. I am hoping to have a release next week, so keep your eyes peeled. Thanks for your interest in the mod.

Marker0077
07-13-2003, 12:11 AM
Alright, time to do a recap, count the votes & close the polls. Let's see what we've got here...

Total
Change Stance Colors: Yes
Votes: 25

Change Stance Colors: No
Votes: 1

Change Crab Twirl: Yes
Votes: 22

Change Crab Twirl: No
Votes: 4


GamingForums (JK2Files.com)
http://www.gamingforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81983
Change Stance Colors: Yes
Votes: 8

Change Stance Colors: No
Votes: 1

Change Crab Twirl: Yes
Votes: 7

Change Crab Twirl: No
Votes: 2


LucasForums (JediKnightII.net)
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1232273
Change Stance Colors: Yes
Votes: 2

Change Stance Colors: No
Votes: 0

Change Crab Twirl: Yes
Votes: 2

Change Crab Twirl: No
Votes: 0


DarkSide with DarkStats Forums
http://forums.darkstats.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5183
Change Stance Colors: Yes
Votes: 4

Change Stance Colors: No
Votes: 0

Change Crab Twirl: Yes
Votes: 3

Change Crab Twirl: No
Votes: 1


+POO+ Clan Forums
http://www.l33ad.com/~pooclan/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=505
Change Stance Colors: Yes
Votes: 6

Change Stance Colors: No
Votes: 0

Change Crab Twirl: Yes
Votes: 6

Change Crab Twirl: No
Votes: 0


Sith Vikings Clan Forums
http://www.sithvikings.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=183&start=0&rid=98&S=a3ebe5d58e1dd3f27c14cb03bae621ef
Change Stance Colors: Yes
Votes: 5

Change Stance Colors: No
Votes: 0

Change Crab Twirl: Yes
Votes: 4

Change Crab Twirl: No
Votes: 1

Lil Killa
07-13-2003, 04:52 AM
well since u said to count the votes i did andi gopt the winners:D

Change Stance Colors: Yes = 50 *winner*

Change Stance Colors: No = 2 lol

Change Crab Twirl: Yes = 44 *winner*

Change Crab Twirl: No =8