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ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-21-2003, 09:14 PM
Someone asked about this in the Jedi Academy forum, figured you guys would be interested, too...

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105154

Commodus
07-21-2003, 11:31 PM
Ah cool... BTW - how similar is the Jedi Academy code to Jedi Outcast's? Because I was wondering whether it was worth it to start coding on JO and then copy and paste code over to JA or wait until we get the JA SDK...

Thanks in advance,
Commodus

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-22-2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Commodus
Ah cool... BTW - how similar is the Jedi Academy code to Jedi Outcast's? Because I was wondering whether it was worth it to start coding on JO and then copy and paste code over to JA or wait until we get the JA SDK...

Thanks in advance,
Commodus

You mean you're doing a mod with code changes? It depends on what you're modding. If you're modding any saber stuff, that's changed a bit in JA MP. Also, in JA, you should find a lot more map entities available (including some NPCs and ICARUS scripting) - though not neccessarily fully ported from SP.

Prime
07-22-2003, 03:09 AM
Can the imported JO models take advantage of the character custimization options in any way (say the colour of your shirt, for example)? Or do you just load up the JO model, as is? I suspect it is the latter :) This is a great option though!

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-22-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Can the imported JO models take advantage of the character custimization options in any way (say the colour of your shirt, for example)? Or do you just load up the JO model, as is? I suspect it is the latter :) This is a great option though!

Well, in MP, to make use of the tinting, you'd have to mess with the skin file and make a shader for it... really, if you want to take advantage of the customizable player model stuff, you'll need to take a look at how we did ours and start from that (I imagine we'll release the XSI & .car files for at least one of the custom player models).

Prime
07-22-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
Well, in MP, to make use of the tinting, you'd have to mess with the skin file and make a shader for it... really, if you want to take advantage of the customizable player model stuff, you'll need to take a look at how we did ours and start from that (I imagine we'll release the XSI & .car files for at least one of the custom player models). Cool. Thanks for the info :)

Emon
07-23-2003, 04:23 AM
While you're here, I just want to ask a few things, if you don't mind. :)

I have some specific things I'm wondering about, but more importantly, I'm wondering if, in general, it will be feasible to create a fully functioning singleplayer game on the multiplayer engine. I mean, if at least some basic ICARUS and AI are there, it can't be too hard to code the rest, right? And a lot of stuff you do with ICARUS could probably be done straight with new entities.

And if it isn't really feasible, how much has JA SP editing been expanded? I know there may be limitations on the game source, but even something like SoF2's level of editing for SP would rock. I only poked around in that, and already it looks like it puts JO to shame in the amount of stuff you can customize. I simply ask because myself and several others have some pretty large SP projects, and we'd like to be able to make things like new weapons or edit fundamental properties of projectiles and that sort of thing. I know you told me you wanted to externalize more for JO, so I've been hoping and hypothesizing that with the extra time you appear to have, there should be a lot more there this time around. :)

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-23-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Emon
I'm wondering if, in general, it will be feasible to create a fully functioning singleplayer game on the multiplayer engine.

I guess, technically, you could do something along those lines since there is general support for NPCs in MP and ICARUS in there (though, you might need to code in some more features). Not everything that is in SP is in MP, though, only the stuff we wanted to port to MP. But it could be done. One thing you don't have in MP, though, is objectives, any kind of forced progression (build force powers over level progression), any way to preserve health & armor from level to level or save games.


Originally posted by Emon
[B]how much has JA SP editing been expanded?

Well, I'm not sure what needed to be expanded in SP editing... you have more control over NPCs now, sabers too, the vehicles are external data, the weapons still are externalized to a degree, all effects and sounds and graphics can be changed, the UI is externalized to a large degree, there's a level editor, ICARUS and you can make your own models and skins... the only thing we could do beyond that, really, is release the SP game/cgame code.

Emon
07-23-2003, 03:55 PM
Yeah, I know recoding SP for MP isn't going to be just a one week jobbie, it'll take some time. Save games shouldn't be too difficult, you just have to write to status of every entity to a file and then load it. The hard part is getting it in a nice, compact binary format and not some 12 MB ASCII file. :)

Wow, that sounds pretty good for SP... sounds like a lot more is externalized now. Really, I'd like to keep with using the SP code since I don't want to have to code more stuff, but I'll probably switch to the SP in MP idea if I can't get things liked the hubbed levels (so close to working in JO! I think the save format is different when hub is on :mad: ), entirely new weapons, etc.

Thank you for clearing this up for me, Mike, I really appreciate it.

razorace
07-23-2003, 06:33 PM
What about the entity limits in JKA? Will the entity limit for SP be the same as the entity limit for MP? I understand that was the showstopper for a Coop mod for JK2.

Also, are open data slots (that actually get transmitted to the clients) for the MP entitystate_t and playerstate_t still planned for possible modder expansion? Or a externalization of the server->client code? I know that was the major reason why I quit activing modding JK2.

There simply wasn't enough space to transfer any new mission critical data to the clients (like more animation data).

BTW, thank you for actively answering our questions again.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-23-2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by razorace
What about the entity limits in JKA? Will the entity limit for SP be the same as the entity limit for MP? I understand that was the showstopper for a Coop mod for JK2.

Also, are open data slots (that actually get transmitted to the clients) for the MP entitystate_t and playerstate_t still planned for possible modder expansion? Or a externalization of the server->client code? I know that was the major reason why I quit activing modding JK2.

There simply wasn't enough space to transfer any new mission critical data to the clients (like more animation data).

BTW, thank you for actively answering our questions again.

Rich Whitehouse would be able to answer these better than me, but here's what I know:

Max number of entities is the same in MP as SP (though the first 32 are reserved for actual players in MP).

In JA there are extra fields in the entitystate and playerstate that are sent over the network (only if they're being used) but are not currently being used by our code. I presume those were made for modders.

Emon
07-23-2003, 06:44 PM
Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. There are a lot of old limits left over from Q3 and such that are really limiting us. The 1024 internal shader limit has forced Sine_Nomen to split this (http://massassi.net/ec/images/11510.jpg) gorgeous Nar Shaddaa map into several small BSPs, because he exceeded the 1024 shader limit on a large map.

Also, the entity limits, both in MP and SP, could use some upping... Would it be possible either to change these for us, or let them be accessable in the game source? I don't want to sound greedy or selfish, you have done a lot for us so far, and I really appreciate it. I mean I wouldn't expect you to make any huge changes to the code just to make it easier for us to mod, but just changing some #defines is so easy! :)

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-23-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Emon
Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. There are a lot of old limits left over from Q3 and such that are really limiting us. The 1024 internal shader limit has forced Sine_Nomen to split this (http://massassi.net/ec/images/11510.jpg) gorgeous Nar Shaddaa map into several small BSPs, because he exceeded the 1024 shader limit on a large map.

Also, the entity limits, both in MP and SP, could use some upping... Would it be possible either to change these for us, or let them be accessable in the game source? I don't want to sound greedy or selfish, you have done a lot for us so far, and I really appreciate it. I mean I wouldn't expect you to make any huge changes to the code just to make it easier for us to mod, but just changing some #defines is so easy! :)

It's diffifult to up those limits, especially at this point, but also because there are a lot of things depending on those limits (for example, if we raised the max number of entities, we'd have to raise the number of bits that all entity indices are sent over the network in). I would say there are other ways of working within the limits (consolidating things, eliminating things you don't need - for example, in SP, I made info_nulls that are only targeted by lights not stick around for the first couple of frames - usually needed for linking - because there are no entities trying to link to them. That removed 500 entities from the startup entity count of some of our SP maps).

Emon
07-23-2003, 07:13 PM
Oh, damn. I didn't think of that part at all. :( What about shader limits? Especially with the advanced lighting features in Q3Map2, shader limit can be reached in no time.

Well, at least Q3Map2 eliminates the misc_model and light entities from the map completely, that helps out tremendously.

By the way, maybe you could tell me what mini entities are, no one else seems to know...


#define MAX_ENTITIES 1023 // can't be increased without changing drawsurf bit packing
#define MAX_MINI_ENTITIES 1024


From the comments, it seems like we can't change the entities, but we can the mini entities? What are mini entities?

razorace
07-23-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
Rich Whitehouse would be able to answer these better than me, but here's what I know:

Max number of entities is the same in MP as SP (though the first 32 are reserved for actual players in MP).

In JA there are extra fields in the entitystate and playerstate that are sent over the network (only if they're being used) but are not currently being used by our code. I presume those were made for modders.
Awesome, I did talk to Rich in the past about this but I wasn't sure what the lastest word was. :)

I had been wanting to do some advance melee combat stuff that simply wasn't possible without the ability to fine tune the animations. As such, additional entitystate_t slots were needed for that data.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-24-2003, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by Emon
What about shader limits?

Unlikely to change at this point, unfortunately. Maybe Rich already raised them, but I don't know... I'll ask him, maybe he has some ideas about how to make sure you don't run out...

Originally posted by Emon
By the way, maybe you could tell me what mini entities are, no one else seems to know...

Is that from cgame (client game) code? I don't think there's any such thing as mini-entities in the server/game-side code. If I recall correctly, that has something to do with making smaller refentities to send to the renderer to speed things up, not actual game entities (that would explain the "drawsurf" reference in the comment).

The max game entities is 1024 right now. There should certainly be a way to get any reasonable map to stay within that limit.

Emon
07-24-2003, 04:32 AM
Mini entities was in tr_types.h.

1024 may be sufficient. Also, I haven't done much coding with Quake yet, but can you directly control entities? Can you create and destroy them, and set all properties after the creation? I figure you can, since loading or saving games wouldn't work without it. The original JK had a 640 thing limit (basically entities), so someone had the idea of storing all thing information in memory, and destroying them when they are outside a certain distance from the player, and recreating them when you get close enough (a pretty big radius). To avoid the map not loading in the first place, all things were created after the level was loaded. Would something like this be possible in JA?

Edit: I see some problems with this now. JK things had very little data, so storing 640 of them in memory wasn't much. I bet Q3 and especially JA entities have a lot more data to store, and when you need to store nearly 1024 of them, that could get slow, and suck memory. Also, due to the higher level of interaction you have, and the ability to create big, open maps that are really appealing (JK can do enormous maps, actually much larger than Q3, but it would never look at all decent with that much stuff) would make you have to change your destroy/create radius to something big, and it may be worthless then.

However, I just realized. I noticed both JO's kejim_post and cairn_bay had about 2000 entities after func_groups removed from the compile process, maybe less. You could further lower this by using info_nulls instead of non-nulls like target_position or info_notnull. Furthermore, Q3Map2 removes light and misc_model entities (breaks models into map triangles). Lights are probably half the entities in some cases, so there shouldn't be any trouble staying under 1024. Also, if we can code in the hub level support, we could just split the map into various BSPs and walk back and forth like Deus Ex. This would also fix the shader limit.

Only further problems I see with MP for use as SP are problems with the light rendering like JO had (although this seems easy to fix), lack of cool stuff like ragdoll (maybe fixable through gamecode, I have no clue), etc etc. Of course, I may crack open the PK3s and find out that SP has plenty externalized for what I need. :)

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-24-2003, 05:32 AM
Yeah 1024 should be enough. The way Quake code works, it has an array of 1024 entities - that memory is allocated all at once at level load and not freed until the level is shut down. So you don't have to worry about creating and destroying entities as you get close to/far from them (though you have to stay in the 1024 global number of entities limit).

There is another limit that's important for networking - I think it can only send a max of 256 entity updates in a single snapshot, but you shouldn't have to worry about that - most map entities don't update, and certainly not all in one frame.

I'd say some of our JA maps are actually larger than any JK map... :)

As for savegames (previous post), I don't think those would be as easy to put in as you might think - it would probably require some executable code... though, you never know, you might be able to get away with trying to have the server's game code read in and write out the data (not as simple as it sounds - you'd need to look at how SP handles all those fields (especially pointers) or severely limit what you're saving out), then hope the changes propgate down to the clients correctly... :)

Emon
07-24-2003, 01:32 PM
I wasn't going to worry about clients at first. What happens when you start a local, non-dedicated multiplayer game? Are you just the server, and there are no clients? Or does it make like a dedicated server and join you as a client?

Also, I meant that JK maps can be huge, as there is no limit to the size of a sector in JK. JA'd be limited to what, the grid in Radiant? I once took the default JK sector and kept scaling it by two for several minutes. I started the level, and it was so big, that you couldn't see the walls, only the floor, and the floor was fuzzy and it's texture was all jittery! Then I hacked my player file to give me 1000 star Force Jump, and it so so big that I could jump and not hit the cieling! And it took like five minutes to fall down... :eek:

There was also a guy who made a neverending slide as a secret in one level. Basically he took a surface and extruded by like 10000000000, so it had an end, but it was hard to reach. With zero gravity, four star speed and strafing (that's literally like 300 mph in JK), I still couldn't see the end after like 15 minutes :eek:

skew
07-25-2003, 12:10 AM
I was wondering if you guys would be putting analog joystick support into JK3? If so, could you let us access the degree of movement along each axis with a trap_GetUserCmd call?

reaper1576
07-25-2003, 08:26 PM
with the changes in JA would it be possible to create differnt kinds of working models with the skeleton ie the ability to walk on all fours

ASk
07-26-2003, 08:40 AM
What about animations.

1) Will the correct skeleton be available (the one that is referenced in the gla files, in JK2 the SDK skeleton was substantially different)

2) Will there be a possibility to load more than 1 gla file per model

3) Will there be some sort of gla->xsi->gla converter, or at least xsi->add to existing gla tool.

Emon
07-26-2003, 04:16 PM
1. What's wrong with that skeleton?

3. I don't think it's really feasible to convert a GLA to XSI, it's probably like trying to covert a compiled C++ program back into C++ code, which is mathematically impossible. Wudan's working on a tool to directly edit the GLA, and Mike says he'll help if he needs it.

Shrug.

RoxStar
07-27-2003, 08:10 PM
ChangKhan,

What kind of education oes one need for a job at Raven?

Emon
07-27-2003, 08:47 PM
A four year education at a decent school, and more experience in the field you are applying for than all the other canidates. :D Also have to hope Raven has a position open.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-27-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by ASk
About the skeleton:

The gla file clearly references the bone 'face'. This bone is missing in all the skeletons that were provided to us. Therefore, the resulting bone structure is clearly not the same as the one in gla (even with flattening of the hierarchy).

What's wrong with the skeleton? It's not the same. It's different, it misses bones.

James would know this better than I, but I think the "face" bone is kind of "created" somehow when it's compiled with carcass.

If you guys could come up with a clear and concise list of questions, I'll see what I can do about getting answers from those who know.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-27-2003, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by CortoCG
4-legged creatures' skellys are possible, or any kind of skelly. I actually introduced one dumb tentacle into an SP map =). The problem is, I couldn't create an appropriate AI behavior, or tags to make the new models inflict damage with more than one extremity. The best I could do is a fully scripted NPC, where I even controlled/tricked some anims via script, but eventually showed a flaw.

About using Softimage EXP to make 3d content for JO or JA would be utopic, nevertheless AWESOME. That's one hell of a suggestion, better than any flaming posts about lack of support and blah blah blah.

Hmm, yeah I can see how that can be a problem if you don't have access to the code. In JA, we do have a 4-legged creature, so maybe you could use that AI... it's fairly generic enough. Or, if you're doing this for MP, you can write your own AI for the creature (wouldn't be hard to do since you'd have example AI to work from).

I've actually never heard about Softimage EXP, I'll ask around about that...

RoxStar
07-28-2003, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Emon
A four year education at a decent school, and more experience in the field you are applying for than all the other canidates. :D Also have to hope Raven has a position open.

Thanks. How do you know all of this?

razorace
07-28-2003, 03:14 AM
Probably by reading the recruitment page on Raven's website. :)

Emon
07-28-2003, 03:44 AM
Reading bios of Raven's employees, reading Raven's requirements, using logic, etc. Boinga boinga.

Wudan
07-28-2003, 12:33 PM
Ken Hoekstra wrote an article about working in the game industry, it's eons beyond anything any of us lowly forum dwellers could tell you.

But, Emon is very correct - but this is true of any JOB - you must be much much much better than any of the other candidates to be in serious contention for the job.

Tito
07-28-2003, 12:56 PM
Here's a question for my team (RAJ PROJECT SITE (http://www31.brinkster.com/rajproject/projects.htm)): Will everything in the JA SP (like the main menu) be as easy to alter and change without any coding, as it was in JK2? In the Jk2 main menu, i know that you can change just about anything: The locations of the things, the colors, the sounds and graphics, heck i even found a way to switch the rotating Jk2Logo with a rotating Reborn (using Milkshape and Md3View)!

PS: Say hi to Kenn from me, on behalf of RavenGames.com:)
PS2: Dont mind the fancy talk on the site, it's just to look professional!:cool:

CortoCG
07-28-2003, 01:12 PM
Make a 'Getting a Job at Raven' thread.

Anakin
07-28-2003, 01:25 PM
SoftiImage EXP ( or Experiance) is available to order or you might find it on a 3D Mag or from Softimage website. Its good lots of tutorials on how to model animate etc etc.

razorace
07-28-2003, 01:26 PM
Ok, let's try to stick on the topic of asking questions that haven't been asked before. We don't want to scare off ChangKhan with a bunch of lame side topics.

Thank you.

EDIT: I'm only speaking in a general sense. I'm not complaining about any particular person. :) Heck, this post is violating the above statement.

Anakin
07-28-2003, 01:30 PM
Also right let me just a quick question,

What is the proccess of creating a new animation with the files that James has supplied myself and ASk and I am using Softimage to create the new animation and export it to game?

Emon
07-28-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Tito
Will everything in the JA SP (like the main menu) be as easy to alter and change without any coding, as it was in JK2?

...duh... :rolleyes:

Tito
07-28-2003, 01:51 PM
Well, it's just that i checked the Elite Force 2 demo (which is also a heavy moddified Q3 engine) and there were MANY more files to alter if you wanted to change anything... Which isnt as simple as in Jk2, so i wanted to know if it would be as simple in JA, or more complicated!

Wudan
07-28-2003, 02:15 PM
Elite Force 2 isn't ANYTHING like JA, and it isn't made by the same company. Raven's been playing with the Q3 engine since before Q3 was released, so ... I'm afraid there are MAJOR differences.

- Back on topic - This topic has really changed from Mike pointing stuff out to us about JA into a QandA with Mike.

I'd just like to take a moment to thank Mike for stopping by - he doesn't have to answer or attempt to answer the large number of lame questions here, but ... hey, sometimes the best ideas come from lame questions ... ! (ie, it's good to have an outside POV)

razorace
07-28-2003, 03:07 PM
Yes, thank you Mike.

CortoCG
07-28-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Anakin
What is the proccess of creating a new animation with the files that James has supplied myself and ASk and I am using Softimage to create the new animation and export it to game?

The .scn files you have are as usefull as the dotXSI files provided with the SDK. That was never the problem with making new animations nor merging a new humanoid gla with the existant _humanoid.gla. In other words: the .scn are useless still :( .

Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
James would know this better than I, but I think the "face" bone is kind of "created" somehow when it's compiled with carcass.

Believe us Mr. Gummelt, we tried everything. The'face' bone doesn't seem to be created on compiling time by carcass. That's the final link to solve this mergeable animations puzzle. Thanks in advance.

Emon
07-28-2003, 11:06 PM
The face bone could be created with Carcass, but Corto and I figured that it would have to be hard coded, specifically for a specific humanoid skeleton, which I don't see making sense.

CortoCG
07-29-2003, 03:39 AM
That's right boyos, I have a new test.gla with a flattened 72 bones humanoid skeleton. The bone order is almost as _humanoid.gla's order. The hierarchy is... EXACTLY THE SAME!!! I need Ask!!! I need help!!! Lol.

Here's a concise request for you Mr. Gummelt: I need the exact .car file Raven used to compile the _humanoid.gla file and the command line parameters you used for that compilation. If you could send that file to cortomaltes@arnet.com.ar or at least post a download link for the .car file and a readme I will be more that happy.

Btw. the tip about the flattened skeletons really helped us out Mr. Gummelt.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-29-2003, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by Tito
Here's a question for my team (RAJ PROJECT SITE (http://www31.brinkster.com/rajproject/projects.htm)): Will everything in the JA SP (like the main menu) be as easy to alter and change without any coding, as it was in JK2? In the Jk2 main menu, i know that you can change just about anything: The locations of the things, the colors, the sounds and graphics, heck i even found a way to switch the rotating Jk2Logo with a rotating Reborn (using Milkshape and Md3View)!

PS: Say hi to Kenn from me, on behalf of RavenGames.com:)
PS2: Dont mind the fancy talk on the site, it's just to look professional!:cool:

Yes, I believe it should be pretty much as easy as in JK2, though we did make totally new menus (and more of them, as you can ask Bob Love, who didn't know quite hat he was getting himself into when he agreed to do our menu work for us... :) )

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
07-29-2003, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by CortoCG
That's right boyos, I have a new test.gla with a flattened 72 bones humanoid skeleton. The bone order is almost as _humanoid.gla's order. The hierarchy is... EXACTLY THE SAME!!! I need Ask!!! I need help!!! Lol.

Here's a concise request for you Mr. Gummelt: I need the exact .car file Raven used to compile the _humanoid.gla file and the command line parameters you used for that compilation. If you could send that file to cortomaltes@arnet.com.ar or at least post a download link for the .car file and a readme I will be more that happy.

Btw. the tip about the flattened skeletons really helped us out Mr. Gummelt.

Well, I would have thought we would have released the _humanoid.car file, carcass and Assimilate, but I guess we didn't... I just checked our 2 tools releases and I don't see them in there. I'll do check that out tomorrow.

CortoCG
07-29-2003, 05:29 AM
Ladies and gentlemen: my compiled test.gla containing the modified humanoid skeleton (by me) matches perfectly with _humanoid.gla in bone number, hierarchy and order. Now it's completely up to you Ask.

Thanks for all the help Mike :D. Your presence here, and replies have been inspiring.

ASk
07-29-2003, 06:14 AM
Btw Emon, to answer your IRC question, of why you need a face bone:

'face' has the Always Transform flag set, meaning that I am always able to set animations to it while other animations are playing. Therefore, I can add facial expressions while there are other animations. Since 'face' is parent to the facial bones (8 total), I can control them through 'face' during runtime.


As for glaMerge, as soon as Corto wakes up, I will give him the needed tools to merge both gla files.
(This step is actually the least complex, as long as the hierarchy is the same, the actual merging is already known to work, since Wudan already used my tool extensively when adding new animations using the GlaNeo tool).

Buckle up, kids, you are in for one hell of a ride


[edit]

A proof why 'face' does not get added at compile time:

Since part of the bone header is the bone name, and I doubt anything was wasted on dynamically generating the bone name (there are some crazy programs that dynamically generate all their used strings), it has to be a constant, therefore it has to appear in the hex dump of the exe file.

Open it up with your favorite hex editor. Search for 'face', the only references you will find are 'surface'. Therefore, we can conclude that no string 'face' exists, and without it, no function that adds the bone exists


[edit2]

It is finally here!
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107116

Please post all your questions about that method in that thread. This one should move to another subject :)

emorog
07-31-2003, 04:12 PM
in MP
#define MAX_SHADERS 16384
in SP
#define MAX_SHADERS 8192
(we had to steal one bit for alpha sorting so the max had to be lowered.)


misc_model and light entities were always thrown out first frame anyway. But having q3map2 remove them makes the bsp smaller and then the code won't even have to throw them out. :)

Mini_Ents were just a side way to get ref-ent to the renderer without eating up all 1024 refents.

now we've just increased the max refents to 2048, but the game ent limit is still 1024. (confusing? yes. the code was actually confusing the two limits so i fix that.)

Originally posted by Emon
Oh, damn. I didn't think of that part at all. :( What about shader limits? Especially with the advanced lighting features in Q3Map2, shader limit can be reached in no time.

Well, at least Q3Map2 eliminates the misc_model and light entities from the map completely, that helps out tremendously.

By the way, maybe you could tell me what mini entities are, no one else seems to know...


#define MAX_ENTITIES 1023 // can't be increased without changing drawsurf bit packing
#define MAX_MINI_ENTITIES 1024


From the comments, it seems like we can't change the entities, but we can the mini entities? What are mini entities?

emorog
07-31-2003, 05:54 PM
the "face" bone is prensent in one of the .xsi files. (one of the talk_* i think.) carcass sees this as a new bone and synthesises the bone in all other anims. so it only has to be present in ONE .xsi file for it to work. there no special treatment for _humanoid in carcass.

Originally posted by Emon
The face bone could be created with Carcass, but Corto and I figured that it would have to be hard coded, specifically for a specific humanoid skeleton, which I don't see making sense.

ASk
07-31-2003, 06:43 PM
Correction: my merger does not care what the bone order is, it just reorders the data according to gla header bone order.

The problem is, none of the XSI we were given contained a face bone (root.xsi did not, and the JK2_humanoid_skeleton.scn / JK2_humanoid_skeleton2.scn) did not contain it either. So we recreated it according to the data in the _humanoid.gla

Emon
08-02-2003, 05:49 AM
That's good news, James.

Sine_Nomen hit the shader limit like five times for his Nar Shaddaa level (http://massassi.net/ec/images/11510.jpg), forcing him to split it into several BSPs, and without the HUB option on the target_levelchange working properly, kind of screwed up the flow (I think the save or load coding the HUB thing used was different somehow, because it would give invalid chunk errors on loading).

Myself and others are planning on recreating SP elements in MP for JA, because of the AI and scripting that is already there. I'd like to be able to muck around in the code and add all sorts of stuff for my SP projects that I can't with the SP engine itself.

By the way, if the ragdoll isn't in JA MP, how hard would it be to add?

emorog
08-07-2003, 04:17 AM
oh poo. i meant to check on that hub code. i imagine it does do something different with the obj chunk, since we added hub tech for the elite force expansion pack, and the objectives chunk size changed - so we probably hacked it somehow. maybe i can still get a fix in...

(yeah, sp and mp are VERY synchronized this time. pretty much anything announced for sp is in mp, and vice versa. minus the obvious lack of networking in sp.)

p.s.
yes, there was something wrong in the hub loading. it's fixed now for the demo exe, but not for the retail exe.

CortoCG
08-07-2003, 05:15 AM
That's very good news for mods, Emorog. And LOL, that avatar rocks, 'LEC LEGAL IS WATCHING YOU'.

Emon
08-07-2003, 07:37 AM
LEC legal has been watching us since we cracked open Dark Forces in 1994, then made a wealth of editing tools far superior to theirs, then cracked open Jedi Knight in 1997, and again made a wealth of editing tools far superior to theirs... Some of us think Massassi.net isn't ever mentioned as a JO fan site because they're jealous ;)