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Havoc Stryphe
07-22-2003, 05:18 PM
The Man I Wanted to Be.

Amidst the many, a faceless nothing
Serving the means, and little more
A pawn for all, and a whore for the masses
Saving face, to ensure the score
Where’s the man I wanted to be?
Drowned beneath the complacency?

Finding hope where none existed,
Bringing joy to those in need
Something special among the ordinary
Standing strong, the lonely reed.
Where’s the man I wanted to be?
Is he still here inside of me?

Between here and there, it all went astray.
Where did it happen? What went wrong?
Where’s my pride, a why did it leave me?
What has come from this journey long?
Where’s the man I wanted to be?
Who’s in the mirror staring back at me?

Sell out, I fear, that I’ve become.
A man whose back he’s turned
Towards that he thought most dear
Precious bridges, behind, now burned
the only way back from my damnation here.
Where’s the man I wanted to be?
Lost, now, for all eternity?

Keeping time, the regrets now serve.
The sorrow great, and the guilt still greater,
Where once was purpose now filled with doubt
Self esteem replace with anger, now the self-hater.
Where’s the man I wanted to be?
So I may render an apology.

Wandering, the failure, ever I’ll be
such is my fate, my future so bleak.
The punishment, just, for one such as I,
who’s will lay broken and resolve ever weak
Where’s the man I wanted to be?
I’ll never know and I’ll never see.

Where’s the man I wanted to be?
Dead, and I’m his living... breathing... eulogy.



By Duane Aiuppy (AKA Havoc Stryphe)


Can anyone relate, does anyone ever feel this way?

Or am I left alone to deal with my guilt, and misery...



:(

Paragon_Leon
07-22-2003, 06:17 PM
Havoc, i feel a story behind this. Care to share it ?

Zygomaticus
07-22-2003, 06:18 PM
A truly beautiful thing, Havoc :( Alas, I feel I am yet too young to 'relate' in the sense of the word. :(

Jed
07-22-2003, 07:36 PM
Wonderful Havoc. Brings a tear to my eye :(...represents what I've felt for quite awhile now, but I've never gotten the words right.

Cheers, mate. ;)

TieDefender75
07-22-2003, 07:36 PM
Finally, i can trully say i can relate to that poem. I know how you feel, not being able what you wanted to be because you lost yourself along the way. I won't post more....i have my reasons.

Darth Homer
07-22-2003, 08:33 PM
I feel the same, Havoc...

I have been this way almost my entire life, I feel like I should be happy or outgoing, yet I am quiet, reserved...still waiting to come out of my proverbial shell. I am not the man I wanted to be. But maybe being someone else isn't that bad...

Compa_Mighty
07-22-2003, 08:52 PM
You know, no one's ever quite as one wants to be. There's always something we would wanna change, yet we can't.

The secret is to accept yourself as you are, although it sounds cliché, it's very true. You never know how many people actually would wanna be like you are, and you keep dwelling in thinking about what else you would wanna be, thus, wasting all these attributes you actually have. Most of the time the useful things are not wanted, but you actually have them and you do not realize. While the things you want will probably serve no good purpose.

Just a thought, after some experiences I've had myself. Just try to cheer up Havoc, I don't know who you want to be, but the Havoc I know is a great person who shouldn't feel that way about himself.

Sherack Nhar
07-23-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Havoc Stryphe
The Man I Wanted to Be.

Amidst the many, a faceless nothing
Serving the means, and little more
A pawn for all, and a whore for the masses
Saving face, to ensure the score
Where’s the man I wanted to be?
Drowned beneath the complacency?
That's the part I can relate to the most. The desire to be separated from the "crowd", but ultimately failing to do so... all I can say is that there's always another try. You're still young, Duane, believe it or not. And until you succeed in becoming what you want to be, well you can always take comfort in the fact that you are aware of your situation.

That's already accomplishing more than the majority of people out there.

volcom
07-23-2003, 02:40 AM
theres a song that i like called "the man I want to be"but i forget who sings it. if I remember ill let u know, its an awesome song. good job btw

Darth Homer
07-23-2003, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by Sherack Nhar
That's the part I can relate to the most. The desire to be separated from the "crowd", but ultimately failing to do so... all I can say is that there's always another try. You're still young, Duane, believe it or not. And until you succeed in becoming what you want to be, well you can always take comfort in the fact that you are aware of your situation.

That's already accomplishing more than the majority of people out there.

I have found, through experience, that one of the worst feelings is feeling like you're all alone in the middle of a group.

Dark Sad Shadow
07-23-2003, 04:16 AM
Sell out, I fear, that I’ve become.
A man whose back he’s turned
Towards that he thought most dear
Precious bridges, behind, now burned
the only way back from my damnation here.
Where’s the man I wanted to be?
Lost, now, for all eternity?


*/*/*/

i understand... im sorry pal

Silenthunter
07-23-2003, 04:44 AM
Really sorry you feel this way Havoc. There are times when I felt similar. Not much fun. But always remember that you have us, who'll love you and respect you just how you are. And think of all the good that you've done to cheer people up! Just remember, where there is darkness, hope shines all the brighter. I'll be praying for ya.

Dark Sad Shadow
07-23-2003, 04:47 AM
yes, we are with you pal ;) cheer up, better times will come

Havoc Stryphe
07-23-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Paragon_Leon
Havoc, i feel a story behind this. Care to share it ?

Well, it's an ongoing feeling that I have been dealing with for years. It's not something that has happened recently, but rather something that haunts me thoughts and sometimes surfaces for a few days. I wrestle with it for a while and manage to supress it for a few months again.

It really covers a gambit of aspects of my life and who I am and Who I was to be....

As some of you know, I went to Bible College to become a Minister, specifically a Youth Pastor. I was full of zeal and passion. I had a burden to help the youth of the world. I wanted to devote my entire life to the ministry. I stood strong, and everyone knew exactly where I stood. I feared no shame, and staked my claim loud and clear. There where things I'd never do...

And even if I didn't become a pastor, I would be a computer engineer, I was intelligent, bright, outgoing, athletic. Somehow, I would be sucessful, wether in the ministry or in the world.

Then there is me now. I dropped out of Bible College and never went back. I never went back to college at all. Now I work for the Government number crunching and as a network admin. I curse, I smoke cigars, I drink. My coworkers know I'm a Christian, but by words alone. My life is hardly an indication of what I believe. I teach Sunday school for teh Jr High and Sr High kids at my church, but I feel it's a heavy burden, the which I am not fit to bear.

I hate what I've become. Running from the call. I'm a modern day Jonah, who's stuck in the whale of depression. I feel I'm a failure. I have failed God, my Church, the youth of the world, my parents and all who placed their trust in me. Even though I believe the word of God, and believe in Christ and the promises of the word. Even so, I still believe I'm going to hell. I deserve to go to hell. I know, none of us deserve teh grace of God, but I truly don't. In fact there I times I wish Jesus didn't die for my sins, because I feel the guilt of placing him on that cross and turning my back on him, rendering his sacrafice useless to me. I don't want God to forgive me, because I don't deserve it. I believe what I have done is unforgivable. And to make matters worse I have dragged my Wife and son into my falicy of a life. They are innocent of the sins I've committed. Yet they too will suffer under the weight of my shame.

I try to be a good person, but deep down, I live a lie, my life is a sham, and no one knows it more than I.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad I have you guys. But this is something that I will wrestle with for the rest of my life. Sometimes it's merely a pang of regret. While other times it's a bout of depression, but each time I overcome and move on for a while before it surfaces again to do battle. I will survive, but I will never be whole.

STTCT
07-23-2003, 10:27 AM
Don't dwell on the past. If you feel like you regret your past don't. Change it. If you feel like you are turning your back on Christ, don't wallow in the "what ifs", go out there and start changing your life and becoming the man you want to be. You have a son now Havoc. Someone who is going to be and already is looking up to you. You are not a failure. Your serving our government. Protecting people like us and our families. Its a great honor. Sure things don't always turn out the way we plan, but someone out there has a higher plan for us and although sometimes we think we have it all figured out. We don't. Things happen for a reason. Our mistakes make us stronger, we learn from our decisions and ultimately we become wiser and one day we will look at ourselves and go...heh maybe we didn't become the people we set out to be, but we are people that have turned out much bigger and better than our dreams. Even if you have changed one person's life..you are a better person. You have changed your son's by being his father - by being there for him. That is the best thing you could be and that is the best man I can think of. A great father.

Smile! :)

TieDefender75
07-23-2003, 11:41 AM
STTCT has a point Havoc....your son....he shall become what he wanted to be...he is your second chance! Help him become what he wants to be in life, and you'll feel happy about yourself again.

You must tell yourself what i've told myself all the days of my life...
My pain, my hate, my loneliness, my memories, and my existence.....it all end when i die.

This is what i tell myself.....you'll make your own variation....it really helps believe it or not.

Dark Sad Shadow
07-23-2003, 06:09 PM
STTCT and TieDefender got both a 2 valid points


Remember, your son is blood of your blood, he is your second chance, in fact he CAN be your 2 life chance, be with him, play with him, disciplinate him, but before all, befriend with him.

Why?
Because you can see yourself on him.

lukeiamyourdad
07-23-2003, 07:46 PM
We all have our own hell our own demons to fight.

Never lose hope. NEVER! As late as it seems, Light shall always be there to shine on your path. You had a dream. Now it is gone. But now your new duty, your new purpose in life is taking care of your family.

I'm sure God will grant you his grace if you're a great father.

Darth Homer
07-23-2003, 09:08 PM
Havoc...please don't tell me you really feel this way. Sure you can be depressed; everyone gets depressed at times, but this is not you, Havoc. The person that I know as Havoc Stryphe always stops and helps those who are down, he takes time to lift the spirits of others, and can do it in eloquent fassion. STTCT is right, there is a reason this happened for you. You may not have found it yet, maybe you have found it but just don't realize it...

And so you curse, drink, and smoke...so what? That does not mean that God thinks you are a bad person. And it especially does not mean you should go to hell. The man I know is a friend to all and always strives to do the right thing. That is rare in this day and age.

You have said to many that you would always be there for them. I will always be here for you, Duane. Email me, send me a pm, whatever, if you need to talk about something, I'll be here. Take your time and get past this bout of depression, your wife and son will help, I'm sure.

Havoc Stryphe
07-24-2003, 12:13 AM
What can I say... These thoughts, these scars they are the skeleton in my closet.

My life is motivated by guilt. My entire existence is now based on the merit of redemption. I befriend others, I help others, I try my damnest to be a good person, if for no other reason than to offset the real person I wake up to every morning. I hope that in some small way, the good deeds I do can erase the past and redeem myself in others eyes, for in my own sight there is no grace, no redemption, no forgiveness.

I am my toughest critic, always have been. When God doesn't see fit to punish me, than I step in and punish myself. I live by the highest set of standards, and it seems only fitting that I should die by those very same standards. My life is about honor, and now due to the choices I've made it's about dishonor. I am the fallen Paladin, the Failed Jedi, the doshonored samurai.

What it comes down to is this: I refuse to forgive myself. For to forgive myself is to belittle, to diminish, to condone, the pain I have caused others. I refuse to permit myself happiness as long as I know that I have, if just for one brief moment, stolen the happines of another human being. Perfection is not my driving force, but rather the complete an utter well being off all who ever come near me. So much so, that I remember each and every wrong I have ever committed against another, and I will take those memories, and the anguish of having been less than perfect in my dealings with others, to the grave.

I had a calling, I had a purpose, but I failed to keep on the straight and narrow, and by doing so eliminated my right to accept that call. How could one such as I lead a flock? I was to lead by example, but I couldn't do it. I couldn't take that responsibility, I choked. Just as Esau forfeited his birthright to his brother Jacob, I have forfeited my right to answer the call.

You may not understand, but everyday, every night, as I lay still in bed, my heart still hears the call. It is but a faint and distant echo, but it's there. And though my heart yearns to answer, I cannot. I am too far away to be heard now, not because I have been pushed away or exiled, but because I have condemned myself to such a life. I am not, nor will I ever be, righteous enough to claim such a responsibilty. I was weighed, I was measured, and I was found most wanting. I have, for the sake of the kingdom and all who'd be part of it, removed myself from the possibilty of causing others to stumble in their walks.

I will always try to do the right thing, I will always come to the aid of my fellow man, I will forever attempt to be a good man, and I will, for all eternity, fall short of the standards by which I judge myself. It is what drives me to be the "Good man" you see on these forums, and at the same time it is the curse by which my heart and soul will be tormented for all my life. I am not depressed, so much as I am, dissapointed in myself. I continue to strive for that which I know I cannot attain. It is a paradox I will forver be a slave to. I am a victem of the two edged sword of which I yield. The same ideals that make me the kind, and generous person you have come to like, is the same ideals that cause me to hate myself and place myself in a state of constant purgatory. Is it unhealthy? Perhaps, but my life was to answer to a higher calling, and since that call is lost, I must place a higher standard apon myself.

I'm just babbling on now, but rest easy. It is not that God will send me to hell, I will send myself. It's not that God has chosen to not forgive me, but rather I who refuse to forgive myself. It is not that others refuse to forget my shortcomings, but it is I, who remember them always. It is my life, it is my death. I am not depressed, nor am I suicidal, nor do I constantly wear a frown. I am merely in a state of self inspection, of inner turmoil, of self disgust. I will be stronger for having endured these feelings, and I will be a better person for having dealt with this. It may send me to an early grave, but at least I lived my short life making sure I did my best to live up to the life I should have had, but now,never will.

That probably didn't make any sense to you, it's hard to put into words the inner demons with which I wrestle, but I tried.

TieDefender75
07-24-2003, 01:08 AM
Wow....Havoc that is deep.

I say deep things myself, in fact i had a discussion with my friends about Fate, Life, and Society.....they understood me....perhaps they could help you....

Remember Havoc, look at my post.....lok at what i say to myself everyday. Remember that, whatever harms you in any way will end when you die. Make the lives of everyone around you happy, don't spread this to others. People will remember you for being the kind soul you are.

Also, maybe you weren't supposed to become a minister or go to college......maybe God has something else in store for you....

There is also change.....change yourself into something that will make you forget about everything in he past.

Listen, you cant change the past Havoc. What you do now cant effect the past, but it can effect the future! That is what you'll look towards, because if you keep rememberng your sorrows from the past, you have already failed yourself, your family, and God.

Look, if you want to talk more.....PM me....i know what it is like to have a messed up past and dark secrets. I try to help people not to feel the pain i am going through.

REMEMBER, IT ALL ENDS HERE!

Tie Guy
07-24-2003, 01:31 AM
It's a good thing that we worship a merciful God, and not a judging one. We would all be damned if we were truly judged by our works. Maybe you think you have sinned grievously, maybe you think you are a hypocrite, and that you aren't the man you should be. None of us are! I certainly am not. But the beauty of it all is that that's ok. We don't have to be perfect, and if we think we do, then we are setting ourselves up for failure.

I know particularly well because i too set very high standards for myself, be it in school or athletics or ministry or whatever. Needless to say i did not live up to all my expectations. Rather i live some pitiful existance unable to look people in the eye and smile. But i'm not depressed, i don't wrestle with myself too often. I just accept what i get. I accept that i'm not the best tennis player around, thats i never will quite be number one in my class, and that i have problems interacting with people. Or more internally, that i have a aversion to relationships, that i have an almost fear of talking to most people, and that i have sinned and hurt others many times over. I still strive to fix them, to improve myself as a person and a christian, but in the end i realize that God will always help me, that he will always be with me, that he will always forgive me, even if i feel like i wouldn't forgive myself, and that's all that matters. Correcting your shortcomings, your sins, your hypocrisy, drives you forward; dwelling on them only leaves you stranded in the past.

God has moved on, and he is waiting for you with a clean record and a renewed heart, cleansed in the blood of Christ. So why are you still waiting at the intersection mulling over whether to go to heaven or hell?


I am hypocrite in writing all this...maybe that's the point. I offer advice yet when faced with the same trial i can't follow it myself. Sometimes i feel like the kingdom of God is waiting just over the horizon, but i'm too afraid to take another step, because i don't feel like i deserve, because i'm not sure whether i will be accepted. God is saying "well done, good and faithful servant," while i curse myself for sins that have been forgiven. I'm convinced that God is right, and i am wrong, though i never seem to have a problem doubting Him and trusting myself, however stupid i sound.


Now i feel like i'm just talking to myself, so i'll stop. I hope something in here or elsewhere helps you, and if not, then perhaps you can at least take solace in the fact that you are not alone.

Dark Sad Shadow
07-24-2003, 01:48 AM
Who is the old man,
who fills my heart with greatest pain,
yet his name remains unheard ?

Who is the old man, whose picture burned itself
down to the bottom of my soul ?
You push me back and raise me up,
the criteria for both I long to know.

Who are you I worship ?
What is the name of the ONE I saw ?
Tell me, how to reach you,
to you I’d bow my head in awe.

You speak to me,
but what is it I hear ?
We have never really touched...-
such is the design of my greatest fear !


Thats all i have to say for now....

im with you -Tie guy

darthfergie
07-26-2003, 05:40 AM
What it comes down to is this: I refuse to forgive myself. For to forgive myself is to belittle, to diminish, to condone, the pain I have caused others. I refuse to permit myself happiness as long as I know that I have, if just for one brief moment, stolen the happines of another human being. Perfection is not my driving force, but rather the complete an utter well being off all who ever come near me. So much so, that I remember each and every wrong I have ever committed against another, and I will take those memories, and the anguish of having been less than perfect in my dealings with others, to the grave.

You shouldn't forget about those actions...you shouldn't condone them either, but you should forgive yourself. To forgive yourself you must redeem yourself. When you have CHANGED only then can you be at peace with those actions. Until then, use them as guidelines to show you how to live your life. Remember you can not change the past, you can only change the future. Use the past to help you along your journey, learn from your mistakes, and slowly perfect your life as best you can.

I had a calling, I had a purpose, but I failed to keep on the straight and narrow, and by doing so eliminated my right to accept that call. How could one such as I lead a flock? I was to lead by example, but I couldn't do it. I couldn't take that responsibility, I choked. Just as Esau forfeited his birthright to his brother Jacob, I have forfeited my right to answer the call.

You may not understand, but everyday, every night, as I lay still in bed, my heart still hears the call. It is but a faint and distant echo, but it's there. And though my heart yearns to answer, I cannot. I am too far away to be heard now, not because I have been pushed away or exiled, but because I have condemned myself to such a life. I am not, nor will I ever be, righteous enough to claim such a responsibilty. I was weighed, I was measured, and I was found most wanting. I have, for the sake of the kingdom and all who'd be part of it, removed myself from the possibilty of causing others to stumble in their walks.

You are not naive enough to think that all preachers take the straight and narrow. I know many many ministers because my Father does pulpit supply for our church district. I've heard many tales of the horrors ministers went through. A minister I know very well got the call in his college days...he said no. He went out and partied and dropped out of college. He became a construction worker...sort of...you see he was a heavy alcoholic and got dropped from several jobs. He got the call again in his 30s, he said no, I don't want to do that. He proceeded to become a bum. He slept on park benches, ate out of trash cans, and many horrid things. Then one day he realized how pathetic his existance really was and tried to commit suicide...God called to him again and this time he felt he could no longer refuse. He did odd jobs around the churches, as many as he could do, he quit drinking so heavily, he committed his life fully to the church and in return they committed themselves to help him too. Soon he found himself with a nice paying job and a wife. With that he found himself called into preaching and has done so since. He has no great command of the English language...he just speaks from his heart.

If you thought you really wanted to be heavily involved in church. If you feel it is your calling then go for it. The preacher I'm talking about doesn't have a Degree in divinity or anything...he's just a liscensed lay minister and has a decent sized church for his own.

You were weighed then...but how about now? How about a year in the future? How will you balance out then? Or will you even weigh yourself to find out? Don't give up what you hold so dear. Doing that only makes you hate yourself for giving up. Try again. Take another shot. If you dispair and do nothing, then you will dispair more when your situation has not changed.

I'm just babbling on now, but rest easy. It is not that God will send me to hell, I will send myself. It's not that God has chosen to not forgive me, but rather I who refuse to forgive myself. It is not that others refuse to forget my shortcomings, but it is I, who remember them always. It is my life, it is my death. I am not depressed, nor am I suicidal, nor do I constantly wear a frown. I am merely in a state of self inspection, of inner turmoil, of self disgust. I will be stronger for having endured these feelings, and I will be a better person for having dealt with this. It may send me to an early grave, but at least I lived my short life making sure I did my best to live up to the life I should have had, but now,never will.

But you can have the life you wish to live. All is not lost until you die. When you die your life is set in stone and can not be changed. While you still live and breathe you have the chance to perfect your life, to change.

Sure you hate yourself. I hate myself in many ways too...but does that mean I'm just going to live with it and keep hating myself? No. I'm changing, slowly sometimes and incredibly fast at others. I keep stamping on my bad habbits and eventually they do not grow back. I used to be a complete introvert, only talk to one person in a thousand and only if they forced me to talk to them. I've changed. I refused to live with the person I hated for being pathetically shy, so I changed and became a new person. This new person has faults like anyone and I hate them...but I slowly iron them out. I doubt I shall ever FIND perfection, but I shall strive to perfect myself as much as humanly possible to my designs and I shall be at peace with myself knowing that I have done as much as I could to be all that I can be.

Never give up, Never surrender.

xwing guy
07-29-2003, 08:11 PM
If you're always looking back, you'll never move forward.

Paragon_Leon
07-29-2003, 09:17 PM
Havoc, i think a lot of people have already made some very valid points, but i'll leave you with a tip:

see if you can find "The Way I Am" from Jennifer Knapp. That CD has the song "No Regrets" on it. Nonono, i know what you think judging the title, but trust me: it's MADE for you and probably will sum up the most part of your dilemma. I mean it; FIND THAT CD (the music's not too shabby either) ! It deals with all the questions you struggle with and more, but delivers no easy answers on this one; i suppose you're right in the middle of where mercy and guilt clash.

I WILL say, however, that we tend to divide certain 'trespassings' in certain 'scales', thinking how hypocrisy in our eyes is a much bigger issue in God's eyes than being an all-out thief. Vice versa, we believe in actions to 'make good' on those trespassings, even though we know Christ's sacrifice inside-out since most of us grew up with it. What if it would apply in your situation? What if God would look down, see you in your state and say: "I know how you feel. Here. I've dealt with that. Won't you move on with Me ?"
THAT is mercy, and THAT is something we simply cannot fathom in rules, regulations or even logic. It defies logic; especially our own. And that is by far the most hopeful news i can think of in anyone's situation... I'd say this mercy is for those who are aware of their state and don't sit well with it. If we could lift ourselves out of that pit, how could we ever claim to 'need' saving ? And yes, we need it more than once. You had a calling ? Think you have left it ? Well, there's a BIG road ahead of you that has all the mercies on it that you need to pick up where you feel like you left off. But that might not even be what you need to do right now. Maybe right now you're finding a new purpose through a painful process.