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griff38
07-23-2003, 06:10 PM
Well I am sure most of you have heard Qusay and Uday Hussein are dead.

US troops trapped them in a house and used helicopters, tanks and ground troops to take them out. In fact the BBC has reported ground troops fired ten Tow rockets through a window and this is what killed them.

I am personally shamed by the actions of our goverment to asassinate the offspring of a third rate looser like Hussein.

I mean come on, using hardware designed to fight the Russian tanks in WW3 to take out 2 guys (1 of which was a cripple). What has happened to our military?

All we have done was make Martyrs of these guys to their supporters.
Why could we have not surrounded the place and starved them out? It's not like the US military is going to be leaving soon.


Oh, and finally I have noticed most of the news reports about this omit the part about Qusays 14 year old son that was in the building when the Abrahms, Cobras, and tow rockets came flying in.

Yes Sadams "evil" sons are dead, but so is his 14 year old grandson. Killed by US Tow rockets.

Whos got the nerve to say this was a good thing?


SHame SHame SHame.

Kain
07-24-2003, 02:52 AM
Overkill anyone?

But, even though I hate to say it, it had to be done. They'd of just turned into Suddam 2 and 3 and even the little one would've turned into Suddam 4. His family and his regime are a threat, yes. But overkill is hardly the answer. Prisoners would've been much more heroic.

Homuncul
07-24-2003, 04:04 AM
I agree with MydnightPsion. And it was a good thing. Qusay and Uday Hussein were not mere observers, they were trusted followers of Saddam dictatorship, and for that they are punished. No shame here I think. As for Hussein's grandson, well it's a war and in wars people die.

And revenge for their death from terrorist would probably come without them being called mortyrs.

Dagobahn Eagle
07-24-2003, 04:27 AM
I'm with you Griff. This goes under the deterioration of common sence in the American military since 9/11.

It's not like "let's capture Saddam Hussein so that he can be arrested for war crimes". It's "kill Saddam Hussein". Sounds like an Empire Earth scenario, for god's sake. Same with the prisoners at Camp X-Ray being deprived of basic rights, and the incidents carried out by the US soldiers.

Then this. Do you believe there's even a tiny chance they could've been arrested?

Oh, and finally I have noticed most of the news reports about this omit the part about Qusays 14 year old son that was in the building when the Abrahms, Cobras, and tow rockets came flying in.
The American media is a downright disgrace, as is the government and military. They also deliberately lie. "Firefight?" That was not a firefight, it was a bombing. Liars.
And it was a good thing. Qusay and Uday Hussein were not mere observers, they were trusted followers of Saddam dictatorship, and for that they are punished. No shame here I think.
Uh, democracy? Right to a fair trial?

FunClown
07-24-2003, 09:39 AM
US troops trapped them in a house and used helicopters, tanks and ground troops to take them out. In fact the BBC has reported ground troops fired ten Tow rockets through a window and this is what killed them.

Two hundred soldiers against four in the building?

I think the US did it that way because they have the equipment and they didn't want any of the soldiers to be killed.

BTW it reminds me of the Private Lynch case. I heard that apparently instead of blowing doors down and stuff, they could have just asked for her at the front desk. It's very deceiving how they manufacture heroics. Very sad... :rolleyes:

PS I'm not knocking the soldiers, just the way they are being portrayed. Any excuse to make a hero.

ShockV1.89
07-24-2003, 10:23 AM
Doesnt bother me too much. Everything I've read about these guys says that they were both monsters (Uday in particular), so the world is probably better without him.

And Saddams 14 year old grandson? You cant think of this kid as the same of the peasant boy out in the street. This was the son of Qusay. And the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

SkinWalker
07-24-2003, 01:12 PM
Let's be sensible here. I was a soldier and could have easily been one of those guys knockin at their door. They did knock, according to official accounts.

They knocked... announced that they could surrender via interpretor... attempted to storm the residence when they got no answer, but were driven back by "intensive small arms fire from the second floor."

They attempted a second storming of the residence and were again driven back.

Then they used the missile on the second floor.

This is all doctrine within the MOUT handbook guys. Nothing special here.

Like you guys, I wish they would have been captured, but you can't exactly sit an wait until they surrender for hours or even days... that's the time they need to utilize some tunnel or escape plan. These guys are the U.S. Army, not L.A. SWAT.

griff38
07-24-2003, 10:43 PM
We were totally prepared to wait Noreaga out. In fact we surrounded his compound and took ten days before we forced him to act. They had tunnels and armed supporters in the area.
We (the US) are completely outfitted to deal with situations like this.

The implied logic that WE (the US), had little or no control of what was going on and therefore had to act, is contradictory to everything else we are told. BUt not to me, the planning and strategies used currently in Iraq seem provincial and uninspired. I can't help but feeling that commanders in the field have little insite into what they are doing but instead are reacting to situations after they explode in their face.

But my point about this was not to DISrespect the US military. But instead to point out the foolishness of thinking with our fists instead of our heads. Our military like our civilian population is full of highly intelligent people. And like our current civilian population most of the thoughtful intelligent people are drowned out by the screaming of the knuckle draggers imboldend by the Bush administration. We passed up a rare opportunity to have made a big difference in the attitude of pro Baath party supporters all over the entire mideast.

Now, we have martyred these guys for their supporters to yell about for 500 years.


Not to mention the GD 14 year old. The caviler attitude by US citizens over this kids death is just another indicator of why America is F***ed up.

ShockV1.89
07-25-2003, 02:09 AM
14 years old is a kid in America. In the Middle East, that's easily old enough to pick up a rifle and pop some marines.

FunClown
07-25-2003, 03:32 AM
14 years old is a kid in America. In the Middle East, that's easily old enough to pick up a rifle and pop some marines.

What's the point of that statement. Havn't kids in the US picked up rifles (or worse) and shot them?

Dagobahn Eagle
07-25-2003, 05:25 AM
14 years old is a kid in America. In the Middle East, that's easily old enough to pick up a rifle and pop some marines.
I know, most of the Middle East is a good deal more tough than the United States. There are reports from Iraq about little children firing at GIs, aren't there? As in, seven- to ten-year olds?

[quote]What's the point of that statement. Havn't kids in the US picked up rifles (or worse) and shot them?[/qoute]
Very few American 14-year olds have killed somebody. If you're implying that the USA is as tough as Iraq, drop it.

It's not acceptable for a 14-year old to join the Army in the USA. In Iraq, I wouldn't be surprised if it was. That's his point.

ShockV1.89
07-25-2003, 10:54 AM
Exactly. People get all broken up when they hear about a 14 year old dying in a Middle Eastern conflict. Their problem is that they're picturing their own kid, or the kid down the street. They cant imagine that kid holding a gun. But it's not unusual at all in the Middle East.

Captain Wilson
07-26-2003, 01:35 AM
i think the death of saddams children are an atemmpt to hearten the worldwide watching public. I think it is an attempt by the US goverment to draw away from the fact they have not found weapons of mass destruction or found saddam him self. So far what has the US and England got to show fro the war in Iraq? a country in a worse state then it was alot of harrsing to produce these weapons of mass destruction and the loss of the publics confedence. i mean im not saying his children were good but to kill them without a trial, isnt that hypercritcal (sp) of the system that the US stands for?

Kain
07-26-2003, 03:10 AM
And now, they're feeding the Iraqi public images of the dead men. I've stated how they needed to be taken out of the picture already, and I'm happy that they are(though not by the means taken to do it). But feeding the public pictures of 2 guys with 20+ bullet wounds and who were in a house being bombarded with anti-tank artillery is just sick.

And the 14 year old was probably holding a gun at the time of his death. Or at the very least had access to one and was most definently trained in how to use it to its fullest.

FunClown
07-26-2003, 10:58 AM
Kids in Iraq go to school. When they turn eighteen they do 2 years of military service unless they are attending university.

They are a civilized race.

I've seen kids on the news in the US shooting classmates. Shall I stereotype that 14 year old kids in the US are old enough to pop a few students?

I would agree however, that Iraqians have felt the cloud of war hanging over them and looming. They knew the US was going to go to war with them at some point in time.

FunClown
07-28-2003, 03:49 AM
Look, my whole point is that people instantly leap to the conclusion that because a person is young, they are noncombatants. Therefore, the death of a young person seems that much more horrifying to them. I'm just saying that the persons age really shouldnt factor in, and it should be recognized that he may very well have been a combatant.

In this case I agree. Sorry, I thought you were making out Iraqian children are all bad compared to those in the US when you said

"14 years old is a kid in America. In the Middle East, that's easily old enough to pick up a rifle and pop some marines."

Sorry for the misunderstanding. :)

Captain Wilson
07-28-2003, 09:21 PM
the fact that the the dead mens photos were printed, yet the child's was not is yet another show of the U.S. goverments propagander, a fact im sad to say which is a factor in every goverment. i am still angry about the fact this war happened. The war is hypercritical in the fact that when the 'trail' (sp) of iraq proved nothing or gave no motive for war, Bush went anyway and dragged other contrys along as well. it just darn right anyoys me

ShockV1.89
07-29-2003, 01:23 AM
I dont see a problem with them not showing pictures of the dead kid. It's not US propaganda, it's good sense. They understand that people are going to react with shock and loathing when they see a dead kid (and 14 isnt really a kid). They wont stop and consider that the kid may have been a combatant.

shukrallah
08-05-2003, 02:33 AM
Uh, democracy? Right to a fair trial?

You think it would be fair?

Also, one of suddam's sons had his first kill when he was 13. Man, killing when your that young. Those 2 guys were trained to kill, so i have no doubts suddam's grandson was trained also.