PDA

View Full Version : What will it take for World Peace?


FunClown
07-29-2003, 10:17 AM
Is world peace at all achievable or will there always be wars?

I think the latter, but what would it actually take for everyone to be at peace with one another.

The main reason why I ask is because China will be landing on the moon in a couple of decades, maybe the US or Europe may have sent people to Mars etc. I think it will just be more territory and resources to fight over. Especially the moon and later mars. I'm not sure if the human race is ready for these challenges without a lot of bloodshed. :(

PS Please no responses like if everyone smoked pot we would all be in total harmony. :p

Homuncul
07-29-2003, 12:23 PM
I guess you're putting it too abstractly. I think World Peace is the same perfect stagnant point as infinity. It is static by definition and the more important about everything abstractly perfect is the process of achieving it. For that we don't need world peace. It is natural for humans to be in conflict with something. I think there can be a world without war, without murder, deciet and all, but not the world of peace.

For the second part, I 'm very optimistic about our space investigation program. And personally think that humanity was prepared for it long ago. Of course there will be some conflicts about new territories later, but not like in some sci-fi, where ruled by some monopoly or something.

griff38
07-29-2003, 12:50 PM
Yes there can be world peace. We have had world peace for countless 100s of thousands of years.

The MAIN problem that it so close to us we can't see it. Is we exist in a finite place and are living as though it were infinite.

Every conflict ever recorded comes down to resources. Sure ancient nations went to war for glory, but they always demanded tribute. Why are we in Iraq now? To make sure our fuel resources are uninterrupted.

As long as there are more humans than resources conflict will arise. Throughout history humans are able to coexist where there is enough for everyone. As soon as limitations arise, we become willing to take from others.

So to answer your question, YES if we can find a way to exist with billions less than we do today there may be enough for everybody and then things will change for the better.
Space exploration may provide unlimited resources someday so I agree we may have to wait until humans have moved out into space and get some elbow room.

Except for that tiny group of higher eschelon of humans who can transcend their own personal desires, most people will clearly let others do what they want unless they think it might threaten them. Most humans will tolerate things they don't like until they believe it is coming into their backyard.

Homuncul
07-29-2003, 12:59 PM
Throughout history humans are able to coexist where there is enough for everyone. As soon as limitations arise, we become willing to take from others.

Isn't an axiom of nature that nothing lasts forever, everything moves and changes forms.SO peace for a short period of time - yes, in specific location - yes, overwhelmingly everywhere worldwide - NO.

World Peace = Impossible

griff38
07-29-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Homuncul
Isn't an axiom of nature that nothing lasts forever, everything moves and changes forms.


Perhaps. But if change is an unavoidable condition of nature why must it be an ON/OFF situation? Why can't the change you describe be incremental improvements?

Your general assumption is correct, if you leave out the human equasion. But since we are refering to humans experience you need to be more specific.

Writer
07-29-2003, 05:11 PM
I would have to disagree that there can be world peace. The reason for this is that everybody posesses that little thing called desire. Desire makes it so that the people who are fighting the wars want something that they have to fight to get. Thus, there will always be war because desire doesn't go away. The more you get the more you want.

Thrackan Solo
07-29-2003, 05:59 PM
When pigs fly and the fat lady sings.

:rolleyes:


There will never be peace, and maybe thats a good thing. Because everyone will always have a grudge against someone the Jews and Muslims will probably always be fighting, and if we "forced" peace on them kinda like we are trying to do now they will still not like each other.

Jubatus
07-29-2003, 08:45 PM
This calls for my signature of old:

Conflict begets Evolution; Evolution begets Growth; Growth begets Conflict.

The question 'what will it take for world peace?' is an admittance of adhering to the dogmatic cliché that world peace is a goal in itself. As Homuncul said, this would be a stagnant state not serving mankind in the long run. We need conflict, or competition if you will, in order to evolve. The only justification of world peace is the striving for it, for that is one side of a conflict that keeps us evolving and thus surviving as a species.

The strife for world peace is the yin to a yang of which neither can nor should overcome the other lest the balance be disrupted.

Kain
07-29-2003, 08:57 PM
Peace is born of war and War is born of peace. Thus stated, mass peace is never possible, and if it is, its not for long.

yolkboy
07-29-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
There will never be peace, and maybe thats a good thing. Because everyone will always have a grudge against someone the Jews and Muslims will probably always be fighting, and if we "forced" peace on them kinda like we are trying to do now they will still not like each other.
I think religion has a big part to do with people at war. It is only when people can accept other religions, then we might be able to get some progress.

El Sitherino
07-30-2003, 02:15 AM
what will it take for world peace?
everyone dead. problem solved. humans are greedy and we kill the planet, suck up resources. kill all humans and there will be world peace problem solved.

Elegy
07-30-2003, 05:26 AM
I agree, world peace will be acheived when everyone on the planet is dead. Mankind just doesn't have it in him. Human nature is a conflicted thing. We acheive so much, and act so selflessly. And yet these same people turn around and do the most treacherous of things.

I have a theory on human nature. Everything is done for the self. None of us does a single thing unless we benefit from it somehow, no matter how small. Even what is seemingly the most selfless act can be rationalized as self serving. Why do you think you'd give money to those causes that help the poor, are trying to fight off some disease, etc.? Oh sure, it's got the benefit of helping a good cause and surely that counts for something. But perhaps you also did it to avoid even a little twinge of guilt at turning the other direction instead. Or maybe because donating gave you a nice little twinge of accomplishment. My point? Even if it's just simple satisfaction, or peace of mind, even the most selfless act is motivated by something you gain. Everything we do is motivated by something we ourselves gain. And it doesn't matter if we're speaking about possessions, money, or something beyond that such as satisfaction or upholding yourself to some moral or scrupules, whatever. There's something that you are benefiting from as well. And so everything, no matter what it is, is motivated to one single thing when you peel away all the extra layers and boil it down; and that is yourself.

This is what human nature is. Hell, it's the creed that everything in nature follows. Survival of the self. Motivation of the self. From the basic instincts of animals (and even ourselves), to the complicated logic of mankind, all of it revolves around a single theme. If you've ever read any of Anne Rice's vampire novels, her main character Lestat has a pretty good name for it. He refers to the world and to nature as the 'Savage Garden'. That's what the world is. A savage garden. It will always to one degree or another revolve around self interest. And often one person's self interest clashes with another person's self interest. And that leads to a very non-peaceful confrontation. The key to world p eace is the abandonment of self interest. And face it, self interest is never going to go away.

Captain Wilson
08-07-2003, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
everyone dead. problem solved. humans are greedy and we kill the planet, suck up resources. kill all humans and there will be world peace problem solved.

Originally posted by Elegy
world peace will be acheived when everyone on the planet is dead....key to world peace is the abandonment of self interest.

damm. Beat me to it :D. I think it is helped by the fact that hummans want things, things they do not always need and can you force to get them. Eg Oil. We do not need Oil but we want it for petrol and other matrials we have beacome depent on, beacause it makes pour lifes easier.

ShadowTemplar
08-07-2003, 02:23 PM
a) Armaggeddon.

or

b) Unlimited ressources and lebensraum.

a) being rather counterproductive, and b) being rather unachieveable.

Oh, and on the topic of every human's self-centeredness:

Actually you are the centre of the universe. And the Sun does revolve around you, not the other way about. Basically because the universe can best be defined by something called the Hubble Radius. The Hubble Radius is obtained by multiplying the age of the universe with the speed of light. Since noting can possibly have travelled faster than the speed of light, it follows logically that neither can anything possibly have travelled farther than the Hubble Radius. Thus nothing beyond the Hubble Radius can ever possibly have any effect on you. Thus, for all practical (but not all philosophical) purposes, it does not exist. This means that the universe is a sphere with a radius of roughly 15 billion light years, with, and here it gets interesting, the observer (ie.: You) in the centre. Since you will always be in the centre, it means that the rest of the universe must be revolving around you! That's right, you. Not the guy beside you, because the Hubble Radius is measured from the observer (although he will also be the centre of his universe).

P.S.: For all practical purposes, though, Earth can be considered one observer, as the iaccuracies on the Hubble Radius far ecceed the diameter of the Earth.

ShadowTemplar - Templar of No God, Champion of No Cause

Homuncul
08-08-2003, 03:51 AM
I have to mention then that it doesn't revolve around you solely but trillions of your counterparts in multiverse (with whom you're connected through quantum decision making mechanism) and therefore we're again at the same universe (meaning multiverse) we lived before you started your crazy stuff.:D

Cosmos Jack
08-09-2003, 03:51 PM
Hmm.... There was a time when all the countries in Europe were fighting over land rights and resources. Europe hasn't been united since the Roman Empire. Napoleon tried to conquer it Hitler tried to conquer the world. All failed and 2000 years later after the Romans. Europe has a common flag and currency. This wasn't accomplished threw war like the Romans did, but threw mutual understanding and respect for each counties needs and rights.

World peace takes time. I think the EU is a good example of how People have come around. To expect this of everyone all over the world is a lot to ask. Give it time none of may ever see it but it will happen. ;)

TheJackal
08-10-2003, 12:00 AM
I actually had a discussion about this with a guy at work. We're both involved a lot polliticaly.

And we both came to a conclusion that will sound ... well harsh.

We both figured StarTrek has the future dead on about how Earth will evolve. World peace and equality will be found years after WW3. Thats right WW3.

Right now the problem with earth is that its filled with ignorance. And there is really no way to educate and teach everybody because nobody is listening. they are either all againts somebody else (gay marriage, forein people, liberals, conservators, rich, poor, color, etc)

There is so much hate right now. And the day people will stop and look at what the state of the world IS right now they will realise CHANGE is needed. But right now noly a select few want this change and they are those that are not in power. Right now all those in powers are either those who fear and hate change/difference/nwe ideas or people who isolate themselves from the rest of the world.

When and after ww3 breaks out a huge ammount of the world's population WILL die. As horrible as it sounds this will in a way give a huge jolt to the world's subconscience.

Think of it like this: right now everybody is thinking it in his or her's subconscience. Pollution. Everybody knows something needs to be done and nobody is doing it. We drive our SUVs dont take public transportation or our bikes. Buy oil-based products. Governments dont enforce stronger fuel-consumption laws, yet all of us are screaming inside our heads this isnt right.

Well after ww3, our subconscience WILL burst open and FINALLY everybody WILL see what has been done. What needs to be done. It takes a world wide tragedy and a world wide response. Not the pressure of a few nation who suffered tragedy pushed apon others.

Eldritch
08-10-2003, 03:05 AM
To put it most simply:

I believe World Peace can only be achieved when everyone accepts and respects everyone else - regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, beliefs, etc.

Until that happens though, expect certain people or groups to continue to rock the boat.

Homuncul
08-11-2003, 09:07 AM
I believe World Peace can only be achieved when everyone accepts and respects everyone else - regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, beliefs, etc.

What you talk about is utopian community. Communism is too only a utopia and not the most successful one too.

Forget about world peace. We don't need it. All we need is world without war. These are two different things.

ninja
08-11-2003, 07:02 PM
here is my view. i know we all can agree on humans always having wars. wars will always happen. but for what i am about to say may sound mean and cruel, but its true. peace is controlled by fear. i see america the way Rome used to be years ago. except we play the good guys role. we cant strike fear into the hearts of our enemies because we cant do that. we cant do that because the media would be all over americans saying we are evil and mean and so on. but i see it as a bunch of cockroaches that keep comming around no matter what i do. i use traps, and sprays. the only way i can get rid of them all is if i use nerve gas. now about the middle east there will never be peace over there. now in world war 2 we used the atomic bomb. we dont use that anymore because "we are the good guys". our enemies know that. and thats our weakness. but one day we're gonna get tired of that. and we are just gonna blow them all to hell. we could use that as an example. you can choose peace or your whole country will be anihilated. and maybe some countries would war with us, but they would just be commiting suicide. but the only way to have peace is to create fear. fear is all around us. think of the police, if you break the law you'll go to jail. thats an example of fear. fear of going to jail. in the middle east you get caught stealing you get your hand choped off, and some other cases you get executed in public. and whats so funny is basicly what i said is kinda like the empire lol. but not the way the sith did it. the sand people of today resemble who? tusken raiders. star wars is pritty deep. its not just all about fancy sabers and jedi powers.

Eldritch
08-11-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Homuncul
What you talk about is utopian community. Communism is too only a utopia and not the most successful one too.
I'm quite aware of that. What are the odds that everyone would respect everyone else? Almost 0%. People will always be at odds with each other.

@ ninja - Could you try and organize your posts a bit? You don't use any type of capitalization and you type in one big block. You have some good ideas, but your posts are quite difficult to read. Try spacing it out a little. :)

Homuncul
08-12-2003, 06:08 AM
ninja:
here is my view. i know we all can agree on humans always having wars. wars will always happen. but for what i am about to say may sound mean and cruel, but its true. peace is controlled by fear. i see america the way Rome used to be years ago. except we play the good guys role. we cant strike fear into the hearts of our enemies because we cant do that. we cant do that because the media would be all over americans saying we are evil and mean and so on. but i see it as a bunch of cockroaches that keep comming around no matter what i do. i use traps, and sprays. the only way i can get rid of them all is if i use nerve gas. now about the middle east there will never be peace over there. now in world war 2 we used the atomic bomb. we dont use that anymore because "we are the good guys". our enemies know that. and thats our weakness. but one day we're gonna get tired of that. and we are just gonna blow them all to hell. we could use that as an example. you can choose peace or your whole country will be anihilated. and maybe some countries would war with us, but they would just be commiting suicide. but the only way to have peace is to create fear. fear is all around us. think of the police, if you break the law you'll go to jail. thats an example of fear. fear of going to jail. in the middle east you get caught stealing you get your hand choped off, and some other cases you get executed in public. and whats so funny is basicly what i said is kinda like the empire lol. but not the way the sith did it. the sand people of today resemble who? tusken raiders. star wars is pritty deep. its not just all about fancy sabers and jedi powers.

A remarkable post.

And again fear is our nature. We can't just throw it away, it's genetic. Therefore world peace is bulls**t, qed

Breton
08-12-2003, 09:33 PM
World peace is a noble thought, but 100% peace is, however, not possible to obtain. Conflict is, and has always been, a part of nature and I see no reason to believe it's just going to disappear. Even though it is possible to stop any major wars, there will always be conflict, and there is no way to stop this, as it simply exists in human nature. Getting rid of all humans will noe help either, because there is conflict everywhere in nature. Wars are far from non-existant outside of humanity.

XWING5
09-06-2003, 12:03 AM
World Peace = Utopia

Utopia is a fictional town/city/etc.

Too many people disagree to have a happy society. Think about it, the US has a (primarily) 2 party system. We don't fight in the streets or blow up buildings, but conservatives and liberals will never agree. Ever. Take it to extreme (Palestine? Israel?). Diplomacy will never solve that problem: Bush, Bush the First, Clinton? Completely ineffective. Too much history and conflict. It will never happen because we as humans are imperfect. It's not wrong maybe, but that is as it is.

Luc Solar
09-06-2003, 08:18 PM
(Didn't read the thread but here's my 2 cents)

There can be no peace as long as there are religions. It's quite the paradox...