View Full Version : Napster Is Back!!!

08-01-2003, 09:11 AM
Napster is back, you know the illegal downloading service that was sued and stopped by Music Industry Bosses.
Well i was watching RI:SE (UK breakfast show) and on their news it said that Napster is back but this time is Legal and offers a Pay 2 Play service, so in otherwords it will have tracks that the record companys have allowed to be listened to on the internet.

Just to let you all know :)

08-01-2003, 09:15 AM
Too bad we got Kazaa now :rolleyes:

It'll never work this way.

08-01-2003, 09:23 AM
They'll get about 15 users and then they will quit. :p

08-01-2003, 09:58 AM
Let's clear this up:

a P2P program is NOT ILLEGAL - Do not make that assumption. It's like saying a car is illegal because it can speed over the speed limit - it's not the implement, it's the user and what they use on it. It may seem like a trivial distinction, but under the latest ruling in April 2003 in the USA, the programs are not illegal, the users are.

The sooner a PC version of how iTunes work on the Mac, the less likely the RIAA will complain about the loss of music sales and illegal file swapping....

WHY aren't they putting their energy into getting a Windows client to sell lmusic over, like iTunes?????

08-01-2003, 10:03 AM
Yeah I just read about this in the papers...Good to see Napster back, now it's just under some stricter rules. Unfortunetly it cost cash...And most people will prefer to use other programs like C'jais said like Kazaa which is free....So Napster is going to have compeptition this time around.

08-01-2003, 03:16 PM
this might go down in history as the biggest mistake the music industry ever made... they had a HUGE captive audience in napster... if they had made a deal, then slowly introduced charging they might have kept most of them (kazaa and everything were still aweful back then).

By shutting it down they caused the user base to fragment and all these almost unstopable alternatives like kazaa and edonkey to pop up.... i can't see why anyone would go back and pay to use napster now. idiots....:mad:

The Cheat
08-01-2003, 04:28 PM
yeah this wont get many users because people are cheap and like free music

08-01-2003, 05:55 PM
They've been planning this for ages, all it's going to do is ruin the reputation it once had.

08-01-2003, 05:59 PM
I, for one use Kazaa. I was watching TV one day and i saw this commercial with all these actors saying " If you download pirated copies of movies, who will pay for my work", or something like that, and it just got me really POed so i just got on Kazaa and started downloading even more :p

08-01-2003, 07:35 PM
Hehe. The cartoons they have there are funny.

08-01-2003, 08:09 PM
I actually buy CDs, but if they're more than 15 bucks, pffft screw that. I'll just go download the songs from somewhere.

08-01-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Chase Windu
I still buy cds but they cost so much. If they lowered the price then I might buy more cds. The artists would sell more and make more money or break even on what they were making before.
Not to go off topic, but it's the same for video games.

But you're right CW, it is too expensive. It's actually a joke. Just watch MTV cribs and see how hard-up 'musicians' are.....:rolleyes:

08-01-2003, 10:35 PM
Yeah but it's different with games, some games are worth the money... no singles are worth what the cost imo.....

08-01-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
Yeah but it's different with games, some games are worth the money... no singles are worth what the cost imo.....
Well to be honest A_T, I've stopped buying singles. I just go for the albums now, but you've got a point.

Originally posted by Chase Windu
Same with DVDs. Depending on the features, how many features, how many dvds in the set, and/or how much you like the movie.
Well, I like buying me DVD's., so that don't bother me too much.
But I stick to my quote about MTV cribs....

08-02-2003, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Chase Windu
We get music free from the radio. We can just call in a request to the radio station and when they play your song you can just record it. Same f***ing difference as downloading it from the net.

Technically it is not, and it is something that has been covered in the USA in the Home Recording Act. It allows you to tape TV and Radio stuff, and the "royalty" charge is built into the cost of the tapes you buy.

Broadcasting is different to distribution, they are not providing you with the actual master copy, for you then to forward onto others. You can't distribute something you've taped off the TV or radio either.

The distinction in the problem with P2P is the distribution, not the actual possesion of copyright material. Radio and TV are legal ways of broadcasting copyright material, P2P is unauthorised distribution of it.
It is not being broadcast, it is being shared, it's like handing out copies of a CD that you own to complete strangers on the street.

Creating MP3's, ripping DVD's are not illegal in any way, shape or form in most countries, as much as they try to add copy protection features to the media. It is once they are distributed you are breaking the law. All recording industries are concerned with the ability to make a perfect digital copy, with video and tapes, it lost quality on each subsequent copy, so it didn't concern them.

Some of you hit it right on the head, they had the chance to go to some developer, and emulate the same kind of thing that iTunes does well BEFORE Apple came out with it.
If the RIAA and other countries music industries came out with an option for those to purchase songs as they go along, then the use of P2P for file swapping would be a lot lower.
Of course many teenagers, and those that believe everything on the net is free would still do it. There are plenty, as shown in iTunes, out there prepared to pay a small cost to legally own the music they download. Instead of screaming out millions lost, they wouldn't be as concerned.
Personally, if they allowed for the download of a CD quality download of songs - a Wave file, not an MP3 or AAC, I would be all for it, it would then allow me to place it onto a CD to play in my stereo.

BTW, there is a "copyright" tag in an MP3, obviously the Frauhofer Institute left an opening for the recording industry to use this to stop/disable/corrupt file sharing. Like with everything else to do with the internet, they stuffed it right up.

08-02-2003, 03:45 AM
God dang that was long.
Anyhow, I agree with the lowering of the price thing. They are way to freaking expensive. I mean, 15 bux for a cd??? Come on. That's freaking outragious.

Darth Groovy
08-02-2003, 03:50 AM
I buy most if not all of my CDs used. I have hundreds of them. Then if I don't like the album, I just rip the songs I like, and sell the CD back again. It's a wonderful hobby.

08-02-2003, 04:34 AM
I do what you both just said. I hate it when I buy a cd, and just a few songs on their I like.

08-02-2003, 05:18 AM
I would believe that once you have sold the CD, you are no longer able to legally have a copy of the music. You no longer own the copyrighted material.......

Otherwise it makes you the same as those file sharers, but a lot harder to track!!

I also thought that the rules of the forum aren't meant to allow posts that encourage stuff like this either, especially when it is coming from a mod.... (The topic is fine, the last couple are advocating keeping copyrighted material after they have sold it)

I don't pretend to be a person who doesn't file share, BUT I do understand the legal position of it all....

08-02-2003, 01:23 PM
I heard that they are going to go after KaZaA users now.

08-02-2003, 01:43 PM
Meh...Good luck to them closing Kazaa....I highly doubt it'll happen.

El Sitherino
08-02-2003, 01:48 PM
this is old news. once they fell they planned on doing this.

08-02-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Semicolon
Meh...Good luck to them closing Kazaa....I highly doubt it'll happen.
Not KaZaA. The people who are using KaZaA to get files illegally.

08-02-2003, 05:46 PM
In the newspaper and on TV they said they are going to go after them so apparently they have a plan.

I think they are going to go after people using their Ip Addresses.

08-02-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by -=TheTycooner=-
I think they are going to go after people using their Ip Addresses.
Dude, I think everyone uses their IP address don't they? ;)

Sorry. Couldn't resist. :p

Meanwhile, back on topic, I'm going with Chase on this one. People will find another way.


08-03-2003, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by The Cheat
yeah this wont get many users because people are cheap and like free music

LoL I'm one of those people Cheat! And I must agree... We all are like that right??? Anyone? *silence*

08-03-2003, 01:35 PM
I will only buy a CD if i absolutly KNOW that ALL the songs on it are good songs. If not, then ill download the ones that a good from Kazaa :D

08-03-2003, 01:50 PM
Napster has become the same as Audiogalaxy. :(
Two down, five-hundred to go. :p

08-03-2003, 01:53 PM
I think I might use the Napster service if its a monthly fee with unlimited downloads. Plus the logo is so cool!

08-03-2003, 02:04 PM
Or you could just use Kazaa....which is ABSOLUTLY FREE!!! :rolleyes:

08-03-2003, 06:22 PM
I used to use KaZaA. But I had a close encounter witht he law using it so I quit.

08-03-2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by KBell
I will only buy a CD if i absolutly KNOW that ALL the songs on it are good songs. If not, then ill download the ones that a good from Kazaa :D
Fair enough, but the whole point really in buying an album is to experiece all the tracks. They are on the record collectively for a reason. There's rarely an album where you'd like all the tracks.
But Downloading music is the same everywhere, you pay for it or you file share.

08-03-2003, 07:40 PM
Naw Baw, i do both. I Fileshare and buy albums :rolleyes:

08-03-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by BawBag™

But you're right CW, it is too expensive. It's actually a joke. Just watch MTV cribs and see how hard-up 'musicians' are.....:rolleyes:


Those are the corporate jobs. Those people are the few extremely popular artists and are completely made by the music industry. Wait another couple of months. They will have *nothing* once the industry is done using and abusing them.

A real band that has fought its way through the ranks and has a mild following has it hard. You need to sell millions of albums before you'll break even of all the recording costs, equipment expenses, and so on and so forth. This is partly because it's just plain expensive and partly because the record label takes a large cut (Much larger than the band's cut) out of the income.

Meanwhile, with these shining stars... You could almost say they're blinded with money. They're treated a bit different. Lavishing them in money not only helps spread their image, but I'm sure it also works to pull the wool over their eyes. After a few hit albums, they're dumped by the record label and don't even own anything resembling rights to their (or maybe not even) own music.

[romantic rant]

The problem normally isn't with these "rich" artists (Save Metallica and the such) but it's more with the greedy record executives. Any true artist would worry more about if his music is being distrubted under his name rather than if he's losing money on it.

Now, that's not to say that artists don't deserve money. They do. But they don't get the money. With the current system, the only way to support a band is to pay $15 dollars for a CD. The blank CD probably cost about 30 cents. The band gets MAYBE 2 or 3 dollars. The rest goes to the label. You end up supporting the LABEL rather than the artist.

That is what makes me sick. It's a bastardization of everything that is art. Art isn't about how much cash you can pull in on a CD, it's about the art!

Case and point:

Godsmack's first album was a pretty big hit. A year later, they wanted to get back into the studios and record a new one. Their label wouldn't let them. The label wanted to ride the first CD as far as it would go and pull in as much cash as they could before they put out a new one.

The culprit here is the greedy record label. I'm not saying that music should be free. It just won't work. But we can't forget that it's not about the dollar, it's about the art.

I don't feel an ounce of pity or remorse when the record labels boohoo about millions lost in profit.

They'd better shoot me in the face. They'd better kill me in my sleep. Cause I swear, I'll be the one to topple their empire.

I am so sick of this world revolving around some of the worst things about humanity. Sometimes I wish it'd just all wash away and we could try again. What I see makes my stomach turn. To know that Microsoft charges 300 dollars for WindowsXP when all WindowsXP is is Windows 2000 on crack. I'm sick of the RIAA taking their digital cock and ramming it up my digital ass. I'm sick of the oil companies covering up and lobbying technology to help run cleaner, better cars. I'm sick of the pharmaceutical industry letting thousands of people die because they decide manufacturing a cure is no longer profitable.

And you know what? That is all related. Break it down, each one doesn't seem all that bad... But when you add it all together it makes a world of ****. Maybe by changing the RIAA and all related shmucks we can start heading on the right path. Just maybe.

So in summary: I'm not asking you to download music. In fact, I uninstalled Kazaa the other day. I don't want to get sued. I'm asking you to help me burn down the RIAA. I'm asking you help me burn down Microsoft. I'm asking you to help me burn down the world. Don't just sit idly by and let yourself be pushed around. The RIAA isn't. So why should you? You know that the RIAA isn't right just because they have a louder voice than each individual person. But if we speak together, maybe they'll shut up and sit down.

"To arms! To arms! ye brave! The avenging sword unsheathe!" -La Marseillaise
[/romantic rant]

08-03-2003, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by KBellNaw Baw, i do both. I Fileshare and buy albums :rolleyes:
Whoop-de-doo. You've pointed out the obvious. You're my hero.

And Datheus, what about bands that spend years and years touring and doing gigs and trying to promote? And bands like the Chili peppers that have been around for an age?
You're thinking of manufactured pop garbage.

And everyone knows it's the suits and shareholders that are afraid of losing money. The musicians should be glad to have their music simply appreciated. Unless they themselves are in it for the money. And it's hit or miss, the music industry, if you start from scratch.

08-03-2003, 09:13 PM
BawBag, true there are a few rich,"non-manufactured" artists out there, but those are hard to come by in these times... The Chili Peppers WERE once that middle band struggling to make it. They've been around since what? The mid 80s? They didn't hit it big till '91.

And Chase: I would be surprised if that's legal. Each CD has an idividual "license"... Like with software, you're technically only supposed to install software on ONE computer. Even if you own BOTH of the computers, you're supposed to buy a copy for each of them. It can't be any different than music.

-edit- I also know I probably sounded a bit insane in my first post. Making it sound like the apocolypse and all... but in my eyes, it very well could be. Things are going down the tube, it doesn't seem like much now, but it never does. You don't realize what's happening until it's too late...

08-04-2003, 08:24 AM
Don't throw in software for the same arugment, since there are special rules for the majority of software licences.....

As mentioned before, I would doubt it is legal to keep a copy of copyrighted material, if you no longer own that copyrighted material......
You are keeping a COPY of something that you no longer own, and have the legal right to copy...

Buying a CD where you don't like all the songs has nothing to do with this, it's a lame excuse for many to use as to why they download songs, rather than buy.

As for software, it has some different laws, in general, you are allowed to use the same software on more than one PC. I think it only applies to a corporate environment, where you can install the OS, and associated apps on your home PC, as long as you do work on it. You can't use the two licences at the same time, so you aren't breaking the law....
One licence is only ever in use at one time.

And a EULA, if it is to be treated along with normal tort and contract law, is useless. I don't think there is any precedent for them yet. You can't add clauses to users AFTER the contract is complete. Especially where they take away common law rights from the user.

08-04-2003, 10:35 AM
about half the songs i download CAN'T be bought in this country anyway. They are either rare live tracks, or obscure songs from films or tv adverts that arent in distribution anymore. About 40% of the remaining ones are ones that i would have to buy and entire album or compilation just to get ONE song.

I actually bought the new Wjite Stripes album solely because i downloaded Seven Nation Army onto my m3 player and got absolutely hooked on it. Wouldn't have bought it otherwise.

Now though it has got to the silly point where i don't actually want the cds i have.. they just take up space... because i only rip them onto my computer so i can listen to them in cool playlists or on my mp3 player. However i don't want to mess with any of the "legal" downloads as they have all this dodgy copy protection crap in them that really limits your flexibility.

08-04-2003, 10:39 AM
The only way a Pay to Play service would actually be a success is if they actually did manage to take down Kazaa. Once they do that, then of course we'd just FTP etc. I know they are trying to threaten Fines and Jail time. I guess it won't be until this actually happens to "the little people" that we will be scared and actually buy into this service. You know. I think that music artists are making crappy music right now. Make me a good CD and I'll buy it. But lately I haven't seen Jack!

08-04-2003, 03:04 PM
Ehh, I have not bought a music CD since like 1998. I dont plan on purchasing anything when I can get the same thing for free. I will just keep using my WinMX.

08-04-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by STTCT
I think that music artists are making crappy music right now. Make me a good CD and I'll buy it. But lately I haven't seen Jack!
Precisley. Here in the UK, the main focus every time it's on the news is the Single sales that are being affected, as opposed to Album sales. lets look at the current UK top 10 singles chart.

1. Blu Cantrell feat. Sean Paul - Breathe
2. Lumidee - Never Leave You
3. Robbie Williams - Something Beautiful
4. Daniel Bedingfield - Never Gonna Leave Your Side
5. Beyonce Knowles - Crazy in Love
6. Benny Benassi Presents The Biz - Satisfaction
7. Kosheen - All In My Head
8. Craig David - Spanish
9. Evanescence - Bring Me to Life
10. XTM & DJ Chucky presents Annia - Fly on the Wings of Love

Now, this is only my opinion obviously, but there's only one song in that ten that I'd even consider spending £4 on. And I did. Then there are only two that I consider to be 'alright songs', but ones that I woudn't spend £4 on. And the rest? Total s***e.

Singles aren't selling because there's too much crap out there, hogging all the airplay. Therefore, the public in general doesn't get exposure to 'real music' and therefore doesn't know it's out. Radio 1's currently got about 6 decent tracks in the playlist and the rest is cack. IMHO obviously. But then, the rest can't be that good or it'd be selling wouldn't it?

And don't even get me started on paying for 'legal' downloads...

Peace out,
:) B.

Mike Windu
08-05-2003, 03:04 AM
OMG, something is horribly wrong... LINKIN PARK IS NOT IN THE TOP 10!!!!!!!!!!:eek: LOL. well i believe Linkin Park is a good band, and so is evanescence. Anyways, back onto the subejct here...

I used to use Kazaa. It was cool and everything, because i could get obscure songs, like Gundam Wing songs(an anime) and other things, hell, i even got the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles :D. And I totally agree with the the guy who said that p2p is not the same as Radio/Tv. I didnt think it at first, but he makes a very strong point.

All in all, i wish that we didnt have to pay for downlaoding music, but it seems that all we can do, as in all aspects of human nature, which can be contained in these 2 words: wait and hope.