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lukeiamyourdad
08-09-2003, 01:28 PM
Since Vostok is doing the role of aircraft, I thought I would do the role of mechs.

Mechs are the backbone of an army but in SWGB1 we saw mechs being the dominant ground force for many many civs(confed, imps, trade fed, gungans, naboo). Should mechs become infantry support vehicles? or should they still have the role of the main ground force?

Thoughts?

pbguy1211
08-09-2003, 03:30 PM
mechs, especially strike mechs, should not be as fast. they are way too dominant in swgb if used correctly. but they can be countered if done properly (loads of mounties).

Compa_Mighty
08-10-2003, 05:47 PM
I don't think every civ should have mechs.

Mechs should be the Imperial and Confederacy's armies backbone.

But infantry should be the Gungan or Wookiee army backbone.

Let's say, Mechs for Empire, Confederacy. No mechs for the rest.

Same goes for some other types of units. Heavy weapons for gungans, but not for the Empire.

pbguy1211
08-11-2003, 01:15 AM
Well... the Empire HAS to have a lot of troops... though maybe not the best. But by far the most. Rebels shouldnt have many mechs, but tons of air.

Maybe in the next game even COMBINE the Gungans and the Naboo. Since the Naboo basically have no army other than fighters.

Darth Windu
08-11-2003, 03:51 AM
Well the role of mechs in SWGB2 should be to assist infantry, break enemy lines, and attack enemy bases.
One way though to prevent mechs being dominant is that i have mechs in my idea cut into 4 categories, light (AT-PT), medium (AT-ST), heavy (AT-AT) and very heavy (SPHA-T).
These categories all take up different numbers of pop slots, so that, for example, you can have either 8 Stormtroopers or 1 AT-AT. Also, mechs should be more vulnerable to rocket infantry and bombers.

Admiral Vostok
08-12-2003, 02:41 AM
That's a decent idea, Windu. I think multiple-population costs are a necessity. This will diminish the dominance of Mechs in the game, making Troopers more numerous in armies - just how it should be.

I'd also suggest combining what are currently Mechs and Heavy Weapons into a single category, called War Machines, or just call them all Mechs.

And pbguy1211, what do you call all those rows and rows of troopers on parade when the Jedi Council arrived at the end of The Phantom Menace? The Naboo does have an army, and as such combining Gungans and Naboo is so wrong - besides they fight in totally different ways, so having them together would be unrealistic. They are natural allies but having them combine into one "civ" is not representative of how they actually would fight together.

saberhagen
08-12-2003, 10:14 AM
Also, if they had the strengths and weaknesses as they do now, a combined naboo/gungan civ would be far too powerful because they would be strong in every kind of unit and have virtually no wekanesses.

Darth Windu
08-12-2003, 12:39 PM
Actually, funnily enough, in my current idea i have-
- combined mechs and heavy weapons into 'mechs'
- combined Gungans and Royal Naboo

There are a few reasons for the combining of the Royal Naboo and Gungans into the Naboo, these include
- Royal Naboo have aircraft, no navy
- Gungans have navy, no aircraft
- Each have only 50% of the number of mechs they should have

Plus, we see at the end of ep1 they are starting to work together, then in ep2 we see that Naboo is represented by a Royal Naboo and a Gungan respresentative.

lukeiamyourdad
08-12-2003, 05:08 PM
And therefore we see the Trade Fed with the confed and we should combine them together of course. pfff...

The same reasons you've kept the Trade Federation a separate civ from the Confederacy applies for the Naboo and the Gungan.

pbguy1211
08-12-2003, 06:13 PM
okay liayd... i get it. for gameplay reasons i agree... otherwise there'd be no game. empire would basically be the republic, and cis and tf would merge and there'd be nothing to chose from.

i still think the strike mechs need to be a LOT slower... you can mass a bunch of them and do a lot of damage on workers and they're too fast to do anything to in most cases... MDs are too slow to counter them.

Admiral Vostok
08-14-2003, 12:57 AM
Windu, as I already said, combining Naboo and Gungans will do them a great injustice. The Gungans specialise in large-scale battles, using their shield technology to fight in a very defensive maner. This is of course the complete opposite of the Naboo, who use infiltration and speed as their primary modes of attack. The Gungans rely on a solid mass of mediocre troops, whereas the Naboo use small gripus of well-trained, elite units.

Combining the two will eliminate each civ's weaknesses, and therefore result in not only a civ that doesn't resemble the movies, but somewhat of an uber-civ, with no weaknesses at all.

Anone can see this is so wrong. Windu, if you really are the Purist you claim to be, you will not commit this apalling act of ignorance.

pbguy1211
08-14-2003, 03:24 AM
if they make crusaders again, and god i hope they dont, please make them useful??? royal crusaders SUCK in this game! Period! What exactly are they good against?

paulzeromi
08-15-2003, 12:04 AM
Well, i think that using mechs totally as a main attack force is not the most accurate usage, because in the movies (original trilogy) we mainly saw mech used as a secondary, or never at all.... I think that mechs should be used as more of a support unit for ground troops :trooper:

pbguy1211
08-15-2003, 01:54 AM
then how about making them a lot more expensive...

Darth Windu
08-15-2003, 10:46 AM
My reason for combing Gungans and Royal Naboo -
1. no forced units
2. Gungans had 100% infantry, 100% ships, 0% aircraft, 50% mechs they needed
3. Royal Naboo had 100% infantry, 0% ships, 100% aircraft, 50% mechs they needed
4. Gungans and Royal Naboo work together after ep1
5. Naboo represented in senate by both races
6. Gungans used in main infantry role
7. Royal Naboo infantry in specialist roles (ie Commander, Sniper)
8. created space for new Hutt Cartel civ

lukeiamyourdad
08-15-2003, 02:13 PM
You don't understand how powerful it will make them.

-Naboo Air Force is extremely strong
-Naboo Mechs + Gungan Heavies and mechs gives them fast speedy mechs and slow and heavy mechs
-Gungan Troopers are supposed to be weak and massed up easily while Naboo troopers are elite. It would be like combining the Trade Fed Infantry with the Rebel or Wookiee Infantry.
-As for Navy the Gungan Navy is supposed to be the strongest. Combine with strong Air Force there is no way to beat them on sea maps.

As saberhagen pointed out, they will virtually have no weaknesses.

Admiral Vostok
08-16-2003, 03:08 AM
My reason for combing Gungans and Royal Naboo -
1. no forced units
2. Gungans had 100% infantry, 100% ships, 0% aircraft, 50% mechs they needed
3. Royal Naboo had 100% infantry, 0% ships, 100% aircraft, 50% mechs they needed
4. Gungans and Royal Naboo work together after ep1
5. Naboo represented in senate by both races
6. Gungans used in main infantry role
7. Royal Naboo infantry in specialist roles (ie Commander, Sniper)
8. created space for new Hutt Cartel civ
1. There doesn't have to be forced units with the separated either, as long as they are balanced correctly.
2. No, they were fine.
3. They were fine too.
4. So what about before and during Episode 1? The Republic also becomes the Empire, but we aren't about to combine those civs.
5. This goes against your argument. If they were represented only one race, then you can argue they are together. The fact that they need both a Human and a Gungan representative shows they are separate civs.
6 + 7. -
8. Well I've expresed elsewhere the Hutt Cartel is unnecessary.

Please explain where exactly is the weak point of your uber civ? They have good Troops (both Naboo and Gungans together would create great flexibility), excellent Mechs (the Naboo's small, speedy Mechs with the Gungan huge, lumbering Mechs), excellent Ships (from Gungans alone), excellent Air (from Naboo alone), and good Jedi (Naboo again). This is far better than any other civ, and as such cannot be done.

pbguy1211
08-16-2003, 03:26 AM
naboo had 0% ships? i suggest you play again...

Darth Windu
08-16-2003, 01:39 PM
uh...you guys kinda missed the point here.

Vostok-
2/3. - what i meant was looking at the movie, and then creating a civ out of that, the situation was as i pointed out.

5. Actually, it reinforces my point. Instead of being represented by only the Royal Naboo, Naboo is now represented by a joint delegation of Gungans and Royal Naboo, hence they must be working together.

8. I'd like the Hutt Cartel and think it is a good idea

luke-
1. true, but it isnt as strong as in SWGB, but the N-1 is more versitile

2. Sort of. It actually ends up with them having fast, light mechs along with Gungan shields and artillery which are basically infantry support, not stand-alone mechs

3. Point being? You can mass your Gungan infantry and have 'elite' Royal Naboo snipers to help them out, although in smaller numbers.

4. They do have the strongest navy, but the Naboo would definately not have the strongest Air Force.


PS: If any of you want to see exactly what i have in mind, send my a Private message and i'll send out a copy of my latest 19 page idea to you :)

lukeiamyourdad
08-16-2003, 07:16 PM
1. Indeed.

2-3. It seems we decided that mechs should be infantry support. Having both speedy mechs and heavies(perhaps strongest heavies in the game) makes them far too powerful. We can see with the current trade fed that already having strong mechs and heavies could make you win easily a battle. Now you've given them perhaps the best infantry force in the game, a mix of numerous units frontal assault units with sneek around elites.

4. Your point is incorrect. The gungan Navy could be beaten because most other civs had better air then them. Now only the rebels(and possibly wookiees) have a slight chance of beating them on sea maps. In GB1, all the ships are basically the same and I never saw the gungan navy' real strength. However, in GB2, gungan navy MUST be obviously stronger(without being uber strong). Combining massive navy power with a stronger the average air makes them totally unbeateable on sea maps.

Darth Windu
08-17-2003, 07:45 AM
2/3. This is different. AT-AT's, AT-TE's etc are stand-alone mechs in that they can fight battles withough infantry support, although thats pretty stupid. The Naboo mechs, however, are as follows-
1. Flash speeder - small, cheap, lightly armed and armoured anti-infantry mechs
2. Gian Speeder - larger, better armed and armoured than flash but more expensive and slower, similar to AT-ST
3. Gungan artillery - short-ranged, wide area-of-effect artillery, best against large groups of infantry
4. Fambaa Shield Generator - it generats a shield, is expensive, has no weapons and slow but very strong

4. I never said the Naboo airforce was better than average. The strength of the Naboo will be the Gungan navy, with the Royal Naboo airforce making a good contribution. However, the Naboo are one of the airforce's withough a bomber, both to make sure the civ isnt overpowered and because it wouldnt fit with a 'security' force.

lukeiamyourdad
08-17-2003, 02:21 PM
Does it matter then they don't have a bomber? They won't be able to pass such a barrage of fast and strong shielded fighters and massive navy. Think about the imps or the confeds. They have a lousy air force and a lousy navy(well more or less). Now are they supposed to beat one of the best airforce and the best navy? Naboo air should still be considered at least third or fourth best(behind Rebels, Wookiees and Republic). Gungan Navy is already the best. By downgrading the Naboo air you kill it's realism and perhaps their best recognisable unit.

As for ground force you've messed up fast sneak around stealthy units with frontal assault ones! Don't you get it???
It's simple! The rebels are a fast sneak around stealthy civ, the naboo are a fast sneak around stealthy civ, the wookiees are a fast sneak around stealthy civ while the trade fed, the confederacy, the republic, the empire and the gungans are frontal assault civs, mainly using massive numbers of troopers/weapons/mechs to overcome their enemy. You,re mixing up the two types which makes a civ overpowered.

Admiral Vostok
08-18-2003, 12:04 AM
Windu, you still haven't named a weakness of your Uber-Naboo-peoples. Something similar to the following:

Confederacy: Air, Jedi
Empire: Air (that's it really, they're quite well-rounded)
Rebels: Mechs, Ships
Republic: Ships (Also well rounded, though less-so than Empire)
Trade Fed: Troopers, Jedi
Wookiees: Mechs, Jedi

pbguy1211
08-18-2003, 01:08 AM
i dont even think the rebel mechs are half bad. they get heavy assaults and heavy MDs. they just dont get the HP and speed upgrades. Well, the last armor upgrade i guess the dont get either. but they more than make up for it in their troopers/adv mounted troopers.

Sithmaster_821
08-18-2003, 01:37 AM
Ok:

1. The role of mechs depends on the civ being played. Some civs (Reps) they serve as infantry support, whereas others (TF) they serve as the backbone of the respective armies, whereas still others (Rebs) they are virtually non-existant, and rarely are seen in battle. This adds to variety amongst civs.

2. pbguy-I agree that strike mechs need either a speed nerf or a damage output one. They're just too fast for grenadiers (in the hands of a good player) and too strong for mounties (even numbers). But I think the discussion is about the fabled SWGB2...

3. Windu-Do you realize that gungan water+naboo air=unstoppable on water maps, and still manages to be quite uber on land maps too. Civs must have weaknesses. As for forced units, take a gander at my version of the Gungans. I think I made up like three units, and they were quite plausible too. The Naboo are next (I promise I'll get aound to it soon, and yes, I know I said rebs are next, but the subjects that I matched them with fit both, and I'm kinda in a Naboo mood as of currently...)

pbguy1211
08-18-2003, 02:34 AM
i dunno... i can OWN with mounties vs mechs. people dont realize how strong they are. put them in that split formation, add a few troops and watch out... i think strikes though are too strong in general as most ppl dont know how to properly defend against them. and they should definately be slowed down a hair.

Admiral Vostok
08-18-2003, 11:03 AM
While Sith is on the subject, I shall be starting my SWGB2 outline soon. I may stick it on the web for ease of viewing. It's getting pretty complicated at the moment, I've got plans for uniqueness that make the civs almost as different as civs in StarCraft and WarCraft 3, but with more of a grander, AoM scale, and as much Star Wars authenticity as I can fit. I'm going to start with a game overview, detailing how the game works, then go into civ outlines, accompanied by the reasons I've made some things in particular ways. I'm enjoying this too much... I simply must become a games designer...

Darth Windu
08-19-2003, 09:31 AM
Look people, you are all going off half-cocked! If you stopped to take a look at my idea, you would see that the Naboo civ retains realism, is balanced when compared to the other civs, and is unique when compared to the other civs.

luke - the bomber will be far stronger in SWGB2, and the Naboo keep the N-1 Starfighter. Also, it is YOU who is mixing up mech types, not me. As i said, the Naboo get the fast, light strike Royal Naboo mechs as well as the infantry support gungan mechs. The Naboo are actually the 2nd weakest in Mechs.

In respect to strengths and weaknesses, they go-
1. Confederacy
strength - Infantry
weakness - Air

2. Empire
strength - Mechs
weakness - Navy

3. Republic
strength - Infantry/Mechs/Air
weakness - Navy

4. Hutt Cartel
strength - Infantry
weakness - no Navy

5. Rebels
strengths - Air, Infantry
weakness - Mechs

6. Naboo
strengths - Navy, Infantry
weakness - Mechs

7. Federation
strengths - Mechs, Infantry
weakness - Navy, Air

8. Wookiees
strengths - Mechs, Navy, Infantry
weakness - no Air Force

NOTE: this is very, very simplified, and the actual situation means that no one civ is over-powered. Again, if anyone wants a copy of my latest version of the idea, just ask.

DK_Viceroy
08-19-2003, 09:40 AM
i like the ideas but are we certain tht there arn't going to be spacebattles and a few new unit types put in for good measure it's going to be a new game i don't know why everybpdy seems to be fixiated on the magic number of 8 civs i think there should be more maybe 10 or 12 i like the ideas for the civ's windu they are very realistic but for some of the civ's they get only one speciality maybe if we do some resaerch we culd maybe AGREE on a happy meduim for civ's instead of finding ourselves spending hours arguing over a minute detail that ends up getting forgotten

Admiral Vostok
08-19-2003, 11:07 AM
We've discussed civ numbers at length many times already, DK_Viceroy, but that's okay you're new, you weren't to know. We've sort of agreed on 8 or 9 civs, with the only new civ (if any) being the Hutt Cartel, which Sith loves to tell people was on the cards for Clone Campaigns but got scrapped (probably because the realised, like me, that the Hutts don't march to war).

Okay now Windu, let's put aside for the moment the fact that you've under-rated the Naboo's Mechs. While the Royal Naboo and the Gungans are allies, they are still vastly different civilisations. They don't in any sense of the word live together as one civilisation. In the game, what would their buildings look like? The beautiful stonework of the Naboo or the organic living buildings of the Gungans? To go without either does injustice to Star Wars, and to stick them together is just plain wrong. If the two are separate, there is room for all sorts of characterful uniqueness - such as the Gungan building's regeneration, building things underwater, "growing" buildings on a Zerg-Creep-like substance called "Swamp" - all these ideas for the Gungans could not be doen with the civs combined, and I've got a few ideas for the Royal Naboo's uniquness that also wouldn't work.

It seems silly to me to combine two perfectly unique civs that work well enough separate from each other when it is both unrealistic and unnecessary. To paraphrase Queen Amidala when she forged the Naboo-Gungan alliance: I'm asking you to stop this... no, I'm begging you to stop this.

DK_Viceroy
08-19-2003, 01:02 PM
ok i'll accept that but i'll still be pushing for the Chiss as a civ since i think it would be cool to have them as a civ. I think though that in this though the confedreacy should get mechs as a sepciality since in Ep2 they had a lot more Dwarf Spider Droids, Hailfire Droids and Homing Spider Droids in play then the republic had AT-TE's in play.

Sithmaster_821
08-19-2003, 10:04 PM
pbguy-Yeah, strikes are still quite hard to counter late t-2/early t-3. I usually went for grenadiers with a regular trooper meat shield until I got a fort and air speeders. That way, if people ran their mechs in circles, they'd be killed by the troopers, and if they stopped to fight, the grenadiers would get them. But they are way to effective at hit and run raids, and there is nothing really until air that can catch them.

windu-:rolleyes:

Viceroy-there really isnt enough information about the chiss to create a new civ entirely, even from EU stuff. Also, most players are only familiar with stuff found in the original movies, and they would not recognize a chiss (like they would a wookie or an AT-AT) and thus it doesn't appeal to LA's main audience.

Darth Windu
08-20-2003, 06:15 AM
Actually Vostok, merging the Gungans and Royal Naboo only takes away unrealistic forced units, and substitutes them with realistic and balanced units.

As i said in another post, the strength of the Naboo is in the Gungan Navy, and indeed the Naboo can build quite a few buildings underwater, which are all gungan designed. The land buildings however are Royal Naboo, exactly as it was in the movies.

I agree that the Gungans and Royal Naboo are different civilisations, but in a military sense, they would combine to prevent something like the TF invasion in ep1 from ever happening again. I also have not underestimated the Naboo mechs, which you would see if you took a look at my latest idea version.

Finally, this realistic merger of Gungans and Royal Naboo is realistic, and helps gameplay but keeping forced units out, and allowing the unique 'Hutt Cartel' into the game without increasing the number of civs and hence making them less generic.

Admiral Vostok
08-20-2003, 10:39 AM
For the love of the Force Windu, you are so wrong! But I see I cannot turn you from the dark path. Once you start down it, forever will it dominate your destiny. You'll just have to wait until I complete my civ outlines so I can show you how the civs can be made without any forced, unrealistic units, while each maintaining the uniqueness and differentiation from each other that the two civs deserve, thereby creating a truly authentic Star Wars experience.

DK_Viceroy
08-20-2003, 01:09 PM
I'm wondering why the Hutt Cartel and how how would you do it i can't really picyure a Hutt starting a war unless it was on another crime lord and even then it wouldn't turn into much of a war and besides wouldn't the Hutt Cartel be almost entirely EU which i beleive the pair of you have been fighting so hard agaist so you'll have to make up your minds because when i'm around it's one way or no way

lukeiamyourdad
08-20-2003, 01:47 PM
DK_Viceroy: Hutt Cartel isn't EU. Gammorean Guards, Weequay, Bounties...they a lot of materials but some don't really want them. Although I do. and by the way Vostok they gave up the gangster civ because they didn't have enough time before ep2 was released.

Forced Units: I don't see how you can make a civ totally without forced units...it makes it very unrealistic and many civs are forced to be combine to have a good enough amount of units. Forced units are necessary for gameplay.

pbguy1211
08-20-2003, 02:23 PM
Main reason for no Hutt Cartell...

They were beaten by 5 people and 2 droids in Ep. VI! ;)

Admiral Vostok
08-21-2003, 09:34 AM
Forced Units: I take the term to mean "units that don't fit with the army at all but are necessary to fill in gaps in gameplay." I think with careful enough designing you can create totally characterful units to fill in the gaps in gameplay. My/Sith's/whoever-made-it-up-first's Gungan flak-like machine is just one of these. Giving them a missile launching machine like they had in SWGB1 is a forced unit, but a machine that hurls a big boomah into the air fits with the Gungans perfectly, so by my definition is not forced.

pbguy1211: Couldn't have put it better myself! :p

DK_Viceroy
08-21-2003, 01:40 PM
Nice Idea for the flak cannon speaking of which i've head of that before though as an upgrade in warcraft 3

the Name itself Hutt Cartel is EU i'm only using this anti EU idea because i'm fed up of people arguing for a civ because they claim it's EU or not 100% Cannon on a game that is made up of mostly EU i'm not going to take snipes at anyone who likes things pure star wars but if they truly are pure than they endorse in EU your no a purist if you only follow the films because the films and the books are the same they are one they are but different faces of the same thing so to deny the EU is to deny star wars and if you truly do that don't bother posting along the same lines as you have since if you disagree with one part of star wars then you disagree with all of star wars and if you do that then say no for every idea bacsue you obvisously don't care about star wars at all

lukeiamyourdad
08-21-2003, 04:21 PM
hey would'nt an arbalest shooting boomas or some kind of huge slinger be more realistic then a catapult?

DK_Viceroy: EU can and will be ignored on most parts. All games are ignoring EU storylines. At SWK a while ago, some idiotic guy said he would never play KOTOR because it contradicted EU storyline. JKII and JK:JA are also contradicting EU storylines. EU is unimportant in the world of Star Wars game.

Ignoring EU is the common thing for purists(including semi like me). Star Wars is created by George Lucas and everyone who helped him in the development(sp?) of the story and script. Those books were not. The books are not canon(except perhaps the novelization of the movies but anyway).
The best example is Boba Fett.
In EU he is still alive.
However Lucas said that in his idea, Boba IS DEAD.
Therefore EU does not fit with Lucas' version of what's happening in the SW universe.

Games are partly EU for the sake of Gameplay. This does not mean making some crappy EU civ. If some people so want EU civs go mod an entire civ yourself.period.

Darth Windu
08-22-2003, 12:16 PM
Vostok - with the Hutt Cartel, and im not refering to ONLY Jabba, you get better gameplay becuase the civ is unique, players get to use the evil Hutts, and there would finally be a realistic Tatooine civ in the game. For a planet that is in 5 of the 6 movies its kinda underrepresented here.

pbguy1211
08-22-2003, 02:18 PM
They don't have an ARMY or AIR or anything and were beaten by FIVE people and 2 droids in Episode 6.

lukeiamyourdad
08-22-2003, 11:27 PM
It'S a pretty valid point but hey I think although they got their arses kicked, at least it was by a bunch of heroes, a Jedi and some very lucky droids.

They do have some kind of army(just as much as the Naboo have) and they can easily use a small rag-tag fleet for an airforce. Don't underestimate the power of mercs.

Admiral Vostok
08-23-2003, 12:41 AM
Why does everyone think the Naboo's military is non-existent? Am I the only one who saw the end of The Phantom Menace with all the Troopers on parade? They'd kick any military force the Hutts could muster!

lukeiamyourdad
08-23-2003, 12:43 AM
Well it's a security force not really a military...a bit like the Hutts...

Darth Windu
08-23-2003, 03:09 AM
luke has some good points here, and i think that the Hutts would be more inclined to use military force than the Naboo. I mean, come on, "i wont condone an action that will lead us to war" while they are being invaded!

Also, again, Jabba is not the entire cartel, and got cocky by allowing these people into the heart of the operations so to speak.

Admiral Vostok
08-23-2003, 05:09 AM
I'm not necessarily saying the Hutts don't have the ability to wage war, they probably do. But I just can't see them marching to battle.

If they were to be included in SWGB2 I think for them to be portrayed realistically they would be kind of like the Goblins in WarCraft 3, in that you pay for their services. They might not go to battle of their own accord, but if the money is right they would certainly march under someone else's banner.

lukeiamyourdad
08-23-2003, 04:55 PM
The Naboo neither don't look like they would march to war.

You know Hutt units are mostly mercs, little hirelings who need money. Like was said in my civ template thread, they would cost credits per x amount of time showing the fact that they're hirelings.

DK_Viceroy
08-24-2003, 07:28 PM
The hutts may be more inclined to marching into war but the naboo would ACTUALLY march into war the hutt's are out to make money nothing more war's are expensive so why would hutt's go into a war any gains might not pay for the means they just wouldn't have the resources while the Naboo did they had quite a lot of military strength they would have had to considering who there neighbours were and their relationshipo until end of episode 1. o k let's say the hutts were made into a civ someone give me a list of their units equivalent to SWGB 1 civ along the exact same lines and i'll give one for a chiss civ. realistically speaking though jabba got defeated by 1 person and a droid because luke was the one who destroyed the sail barge the rest were just window dressing and were a hindrance not a help and R2 did the most out of the lot not inclusing luke and all he did was chuck a lightsaber though that only happened because mara jade wasn't there i've yet to double check the film but in the background somewhere you can see her lurking .


and for EU some is official the stuff that's not official I ignore since it's not worth a second thoughtbecause the official stuff is the stuff that geroge lucas came up with for ideas for episode 7 8 and 9 even if he doesn't make them but realieases a screen play maybe then anything in that screenplay would be cannon

Darth Windu
08-25-2003, 12:40 AM
Queen Amidala : "I will not condone an action that will lead us to war"

Captain Panaka : "Our Security Volounteers will be no match for the battle-hardened Trade Federation army"

Admiral Vostok
08-28-2003, 05:51 AM
DK Viceroy had some good points (if you can get through the non-punctuated babble) until he got to talking about EU.

Windu: Those quotes are true but similar things could be said about many other armies in the real world (since, as you so often say, Star Wars is based on the real world). For example, when George Bush was trying to get support for the War in Iraq, the French were strongly against it. They wouldn't enter into an alliance with the Americans even though they have a decent army, hence "I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war".

Now I'll use Australia for my next point because I'm Australian and I know the capabilities of our Army. Let's say another country decided to invade Australia. We'd be required to call on our allies because we might not be able to defend the country ourselves. We would probably say "Our Royal Australian Army will be no match for the battle-hardened <insert invading country here> Army." Like the Naboo, we need our allies, though we do still have a standing Army and could wage war on a lesser country if we wanted to.

While we're on the subject of real-world equivalents, it is obvious the real world equivalent to the Hutt Cartel would be the Mafia, or some other similar crime syndicate. Can you picture the Mafia marching to battle?

Darth Windu
08-29-2003, 12:26 PM
Well actually Vostok, your model is flawed becuase the only nation in the world that has the capacity to invade Australia is the USA - the very same nation that we would call for help.

With Star Wars, the point i was trying to make was that the Naboo dont have an army, they have a 'Security' force, much like Jabba. Their weaponry would also be comparable, although in the game, i have given the Hutts a couple of advantages to balance their obvious lack of military force. These include-

1. The ability to 'steal' other civ's workers
2. A mobile resource center
3. 'Moisture Farm' unique building that generates credits
4. Buildings that are auto-garrisoned (fire without being garrisoned by units)

Admiral Vostok
08-30-2003, 12:19 AM
Actually my model isn't flawed because I was talking theoretically! I believe my point is proven by thinking back to WW2 with the attempted Japanese invasion. The fact that the Japanese are by law so militarily-restricted now is inconsequential.

What is your comment on my point that Hutts = Mafia? Once again you seem to have ignored my strongest point.

Darth Windu
08-30-2003, 06:29 AM
Well to a certain extent you are right, BUT the Hutts control the whole planet, and so dont have the same sort of restrictions upon them as do the mafia.

DK_Viceroy
08-30-2003, 05:33 PM
HOW DAFT IS THAT the hutts control tatooine hah that's a laugh if they did do you realy think they'd let stormtroopers roam the streets the imperials had a moff on the planet albeit a corrupt on but a moff all the same. the only planets they controlled were Dassocha 5 Nal hutta and it's orbiting smuggler moon of Nar Shadda maybe before you should try to cover every angle of an idea before you start abut it. If anyone wants to start on the chiss again i'm pretty sure that there'll be a few shots of sev'rance tann which since i've got a little about her in my fac t file i cinsider her official i don't acknoledge the existance of EU only Cannon and official extra's only an idiot would think that star wars is only the films or are you willing to say that bafore ep's 1 and 2 cane out that anything like nabbo at that time was EU which i don't acknowledge any right to exist really you need to sort your definition's there's a saying that goes TO The Pure Arn't ALL things Pure and if you are indeed purists as you claim but since everything these days are lies with a paint job i don't beleive that as much as i beleive anything the official stuff explains things that there WASN'T time for in the film. or would you rather that every few seconds they debatred the finer points of an Imperial Star Destroyer against a Star cruiser why do i seem to be the only person around here WIHTOUT ROSE COLOURED GLASSES ON

Admiral Vostok
08-31-2003, 03:17 AM
Viceroy, do your trains of thought really collide as much as they do in your posts? Because I can't see any other reason why you refuse to punctuate your posts for the benefit of your fellow forumites.

Now, I think I've decifered enough of your post to understand that you believe Purists to be idiots. Your argument (I believe) is that before Episode I Naboo was not Canon, and therefore according to Purists did not exist. That is true. Naboo didn't exist. George Lucas hadn't thought it up yet. You seem to fail to understand that Star Wars is a movie, it is not real. I'd like to say more in my argument but until you structure your sentences in a readable format I'm at a loss.

Darth Windu
08-31-2003, 06:05 AM
From 'The Phantom Menace'-

Obi-Wan Kenobi : Here Master, Tatooine
Qui-Gon Jinn : It's controlled by the Hutts

Yeah, really sounds like the Hutts didnt control it, doesnt it?

Admiral Vostok
09-01-2003, 12:44 AM
Well Viceroy was talking about in Imperial times, when the Empire controlled the planet, so you are both right.

But Windu is more correct since the Hutts did control the whole planet at one point in time, supporting his statement that the Hutt's conrolled all of Tatooine.

Jango_Fett_UK
09-02-2003, 06:54 PM
well mechs are important in any battle for their fire power and the assault mechs moderate troop carrying capibility the only problem is the mechs have a certain capibility for example the strike mech good for attacking troops but not good for other mechs the same with the mech destroyer hence its name but i luv mech and they are a asset to any army :atat:

Darth Windu
09-03-2003, 06:08 AM
With Tatooine, it would also be a pretty safe bet that after Endor, the Hutts would remove the Imperial presence on Tatooine.

Jango - first of all, Grammer - learn to use it.
This thread is about the possible use of mechs in SWGB2, not SWGB. Also, two other things-
1. Kamino is spelt with a K, not a C
2. In your sig, it should be "You're", not "Your"

Jango_Fett_UK
09-03-2003, 04:35 PM
oooooo dun go ova the top now mr perfect wow a few mistakes not a GASTLY mistake and wow i missread sumthin wow bug woop i only satrted lk yesterday so a little ease with the stricktness ova yuh after all u cant be perfect yourself no1 is:mad:

DK_Viceroy
09-03-2003, 09:15 PM
hey stuff happens put up with it i did and even now they still don't shut up. there worse than my old english teacher haven't had a chance to see the new old bag yet and i usually focus on getting the idea down first. and for tatooine your right about that the republic was in command of tatooine in name only i get this from shmi skywalker is ep 1 saying " the republic doesn't exist out here " thoguh they did have a presence and made the occasional anti slave raid.


Is this punctuation okay NOW or do y9ou wasnt it every 2 words.

and besides lay off him the title for the thread is The Role Of Mechs it doesn;t say which game so you could in theory write about mechs in swgb though anyway i don't really see any hutt military commanders or them even bothering about production facilities supply lines forward bases star ships the like the hutts lived on tatooine for 3 reasons

1 the repoublic didn't really exist out there

2 Money

3 Pleasure

Admiral Vostok
09-03-2003, 11:53 PM
Well Viceroy, you are getting better. Don't get sore at us, it's called "netiquette". You might argue that it saves time for you to type in a relatively non-sensical manner, and it is up to us to figure it out. But that is really being a bit rude, when If you take the time to write properly we can save time reading and everyone is happy. It's just common courtesy really. Now we'd understand if you live in a non-English speaking country or if you are only a little kid, so please tell us if either one of these is true and we'll get off your back.

saberhagen
09-04-2003, 12:50 PM
If you read threads before replying to them, you will actually find out what they're about and you will be able to make your reply more relevant.

Of course it's important to get ideas down before you forget them, but you could do that in Word or Notepad, then edit it and copy and paste it into the post form when it's ready.

lukeiamyourdad
09-04-2003, 03:21 PM
Well now that's a little much to be doing it on word before putting it here.

DK_Viceroy-We meant no offense, it's just that it's hard to know where a sentence begins when you're not using punctuation and capitalization(sp?). It gets you ideas straight and easy for everyone to read so the point you're making is clearer to us.

saberhagen
09-05-2003, 09:21 AM
BTW Viceroy I don't hate you or anything. I respect the fact that unlike a lot of people on here you actually play the game regularly.

lukeiamyourdad
09-06-2003, 12:19 AM
Hey! I still play the game occasionally.

I mean being one of the players who actually played this game so often in the year following its released. I almost played SWGB exclusively.

You have to move on you know:rolleyes: ?

Sithmaster_821
09-06-2003, 12:47 AM
DK_Viceroy, no offense, but I didnt read any of your posts in fear for my eyesight. Punctuation=good. Paragraphs=good. Complete sentences=good.

Okay, Naboo is counted as a civ for the same reason the aztecs/mayans are counted as civs in AoK. conquerors need something to conquer, even if it doesn't make sense equality of strengthwise

DK_Viceroy
09-06-2003, 08:17 AM
Thanks Saberhagen i play the game every night so that's why i usually talk about things i know about in 10 games no one played as gungans that's waste. I see a lot more people playing as republic or empire because of the fact that they are TOO overpowered if they can hit the ground running. Jedi or Sith Masters are too overpowered and don't have an effective counter .The Hutt cartel would just be another civ that would get steam rolled by a jedi master horde and since they propably wouldn't have good mechs they realistiucally wouldn't stand a chance.

saberhagen
09-06-2003, 09:32 AM
True not many people choose to play Gungans when given the choice. Nearly everyone goes for Republic, Confed, Empire or Rebels. I wouldn't say the Gungans are weak though. They have some of the best heavy weapons - their pummels are excellent. I think another reason why people don't play them is because they just don't like them. It could be because the sound effects are annoying, or because people associate them with Jar Jar, or things like that.

Admiral Vostok
09-06-2003, 11:39 AM
I agree saberhagen. I said in another thread already I think the biggest reason people don't play Gungans is because of Jar Jar. I quite like them, they aren't weak at all.

Don't forget though we're talking about the possible SWGB2 here, in which the strength of Jedi and necessity for good mechs may not necessarily be the same as that in SWGB1.

DK_Viceroy
09-06-2003, 12:02 PM
I'm not devating how good the Gungans are they are an equiavlent to the empire I am saying how nobody likes them. The Gungan Pummels are the same level as the TF's there not that special compared to the Confederacy's.

Frozted_MM's
09-06-2003, 01:34 PM
I really hope troopers are the backbone of the army in the next game. Mechs should be used to hold the line and not massed to win the game.

Sithmaster_821
09-06-2003, 03:38 PM
:wstupid:

lukeiamyourdad
09-07-2003, 06:03 PM
Although Trooper wars are very fun i just fear that too many troopers might lag the game. Anyway lol.

Mechs are supposed to be the backbone and help infantry. On the case of Trade Fed and the Empire, it should really change. I mean who uses Trade fed troopers in late games?

Viceroy- Gungan Pummels if upgraded are more powerful then Trade Fed pummels or Confed pummels. Learn your civs.