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Darth Groovy
08-13-2003, 01:13 PM
As the summer slowly draws to a close, we have been bombarded with a number of sequals. Some good, some not so good, and some have even surpassed the originals!

Let us now discuss how and why some movie sequals actionally became better than the originals and why.

The first one that comes to mind is The Empire Strikes Back which is still my favorite in the Saga so far. Why is it better? Everything turned up a notch. Vader was no longer Tarkin's Henchmen, he was scary and larger than life, using sheer fear to motivate his troops into deadly situations, even worse than when Captain Ahab risked the lives of his crew in persuit of the Great White Whale, Moby Dick. The characters developed connections with each other. Best of all, Yoda, how can you not love Yoda? Empire was dark, exiting, and completely unpredictable. It was not completely a sequal, but let's face it, had Star Wars not done good, it never would have happened. Empire was also directed by Irvin Kirshner, not Goerge Lucas, maybe that is something to think about.

I will discuss more sequals later, first I want to hear from you.

KBell
08-13-2003, 01:27 PM
I agree, some sequals are good, but some can be quite annoying. The first annoying one that comes to mind is Tomb Raider 2. The first one got bad reviews for a flat storyline and lame outbursts of "action"


But i would have to agree with you on the Empire Strikes Back sequal. I was a refreshing changes that basically game a good over-view of the Jedi and Master Yoda....oh, and that little "Im your father" scene that gave way to majorly lame jokes :p


Im looking forward to Spiderman 2, even though im not a very good spidey fan. I want to see if it lives up to all this hype it's recieving.

Darth Groovy
08-13-2003, 04:24 PM
The other one that comes to mind would be X-Men 2, X-Men United. The story and action and interaction of characters far surpasses the original.

KBell
08-13-2003, 04:33 PM
i havent seen X-men 2 but from what my friends say it's way better than X-men. I just cant wait to see the new Colossus :D

The Cheat
08-13-2003, 05:29 PM
one that comes to mind for me is the godfather part ii, great movie, better then the first in my opinion but they are both great movies

Kain
08-13-2003, 07:21 PM
Terminator 2: Judgement Day is way better than the first.

RoguePhotonic
08-13-2003, 08:31 PM
Bad boys 2 is better than the first.

Darth Eggplant
08-14-2003, 01:25 AM
an older movie, but whenever ALIEN and all its sequels are mentioned ALIEN 2 always seems to win out. I think Bill Paxton did a lot for that movies success.:D

edlib
08-14-2003, 01:37 AM
An incomplete and biased list of sequels that were, in my opinion, at least a little better in some way than the first film:

Toy Story 2

Godfather Part 2 (Tough call)

Star Trek 2: The Wrath Of Khan

The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly (Not truly a sequel, but the third in a loose trilogy based on similar characters and situations)

Clear and Present Danger

More if I think of any...

El Sitherino
08-14-2003, 01:44 AM
I liked Ninja Turtles 2 that was a good movie.

Darklighter
08-14-2003, 01:55 AM
The reason the vast majority of sequels being released are percieved as worst than their predecessors is because they are constantly compared to the original movies. This is not a good thing, each film should be view seperately as individual features. The good thing about ESB, is that it wasn't really a sequel, just the next installment in the Original Trilogy, so was not so much compared to ANH, because it simply carried on the story.

Moving onto newer films, Matrix Reloaded was a much different case than Star Wars. Because the original film relied so much on special effects and "breaking the boundaries" in movie making, the sequel, even though I wasn't sure there was going to be one at first, was hyped up to be bigger, better and more spectacular than the first. On some levels, I agree it pulled it off, but sometimes at the expense of the acting. LOTR was more like the Star Wars OT in a way - Two Towers only continued on the story, it wasn't looking to be bigger or better than the first, but just to carry on the story set out in the books. IMO, neither film was better than each other, I loved 'em both, and can't wait for ROTK ^^;

Spiderman 2, one of the films I'm most looking forward to, is gonna rock 'cos a new villain is gonna be introduced (Doc Ock, for those that don't know...he's on one of the teaser posters out at the moment, looks amazing). I don't suspect it will be better than the first, cos one of the main aspects of the Spiderman story was the acquiring of his powers, and the trials and tribulations that that invloved.

X-Men 2 was fantastic, much better than the first, I thought, cos it brought in a whole load of new characters from the comic, all presented very well and loyally to the comic. Nightcrawler was done so well I thought. X-Men 3 though, without a doubt, will be the best of them, simply 'cos they're gonna bring in Gambit. I mean come on, they have to, he just owns =P

Thus ends my essay ^^; XD *scootles off*

ET Warrior
08-14-2003, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Darklighter
I don't suspect it will be better than the first, cos one of the main aspects of the Spiderman story was the acquiring of his powers, and the trials and tribulations that that invloved.

I suspect Spidy 2 WILL be better than the first, because it's going to be all Spidy fighting bad guys, and I dont have to watch how he gets his powers, because I KNEW how he got his powers and why he became a hero.

This one will just be Spiderman kicking ass!! WOOHOO!!!

The Cheat
08-14-2003, 03:40 AM
yeah star trek the wrath of khan and t2 judgement days are also great sequels

RoguePhotonic
08-14-2003, 06:02 AM
Yep aliens was the best out of the 4...hopefully aliens vs predator will be good.

ckcsaber
08-14-2003, 07:07 AM
Aliens is one of my favorite movies of all time. Although Alien was a fantastic movie, it's sequel surpasses it in every way. The Marines are such great characters, and are easy for the audience to become attatched to, which makes their deaths later in the movie even more emotional. The whole movie can literally make you sweat out of fear.

Sivy
08-14-2003, 09:50 AM
Clear and Present Danger

*sticks a mini-marshmallow up edlib's nose*

:D

thats not a sequel, it's part of a series. :)

i wouldn't count ESB as sequel either, same as matrix reloaded or anything else thats part of a greater or pre-written story.

for me a sequel is when a film does well they decide to write and make another one 'for the fans', i.e 'for the money'


color of money, nows that a good sequel... if you can call it that.

edlib
08-14-2003, 11:07 AM
*Eats marshmallow* ;)

The comments I made to "The Good, the Bad..." can be applied to "Clear and Present..." then.

Like I said,.. this was a list of films that I thought were slightly better in some way than the first film in a series,.. they didn't need to be a true sequel. My own rules,.. sorry. :D

:joy:

Just thought of another one...

The Two Towers

toms
08-14-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by MydnightPsion
Terminator 2: Judgement Day is way better than the first.

in what weird twisted alternate timeline???? :D



X-2, Godfather 2 , ESB and Aliens would get my vote. But they are the ones everyone always mentions.


Tomb Raider 2 could hardly be WORSE ;)

I liked back to the future 2 a lot, although as it is so closely linked to both 1 and 3 im not sure it could be considered seperately.

The Cheat
08-14-2003, 01:23 PM
well if clear and present danger can be considered one then why not goldfinger which was the best bond imo and really set the formula

KBell
08-14-2003, 01:29 PM
I'de have to agree with Mydnignt, Terminator 2 is better than the first. It had 2 very accomplished actors, both of them playing 2 very unique and interesting parts. Plus, the stunts in it were, in my mind, ahead of it's time.

Great movie.

topshot
08-14-2003, 01:35 PM
One, such as myself, is always faced with tough decisions when it comes to good sequels. I'll have to pick Ninja Turtles 2 and the second Batman flick. Terminator 2 as well. I thought all 3 were good in a way.

Sivy
08-14-2003, 02:22 PM
i didn't like the second turtles film, i prefered the first one.. maybe it was the fact it had vanilla ice in it :uzi2: :doo1:


well if you're including series, then harry potter 2 was better than the first

KBell
08-14-2003, 02:27 PM
Harry Potter


*Shudder* i regret ever watching both movies ;)

Darth Groovy
08-14-2003, 04:40 PM
Evil Dead II: Dead By Dawn was far superior than the original. It was at this time, that the movies started becomeing less serious and more full of tounge-in-cheek humor. Go see them both and notice the difference.

EDII, is basically the same story as the first one, minus a few characters, and the addition of more of a budget for the film. It is still a horror movie, but there is plenty of things to laugh at in this movie. Most of these things involve Bruce Campbell breaking plates over his head and spouting wisecracks at the evil deadites.
http://www.delphidude.com/personal/dvd/best_discs/images/evil_dead_ii_r1_le.jpg

This one is also my personal favorite in the Evil Dead Trilogy.

StormHammer
08-14-2003, 05:58 PM
Yep, I'd have to agree with the general concensus about the 'good' sequels.

Empire Strikes Back is definitely one of my favourite sequels, and is still my favourite of all the Star Wars films.

I agree about Aliens. That's my favourite in the Alien film series, closely followed by the original.

Terminator 2: Judgement Day was another great sequel.

Die Hard 2 was as good as the first, IMHO.

Lethal Weapon 2 was also a very good sequel.

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is sort of a sequel (or maybe prequel to the Dollar movies), and is definitely my favourite of that series.

And I agree with Groovy about Evil Dead II, although technically it was a remake.

I consider Halloween 2 to be a very good sequel as well (indeed, I only watch those films back to back these days, because it's more of a continuous story) - and it should never have become a series.

Star Trek 2 was obviously better than the first.

The Golden Voyage of Sinbad was as good as the 7th Voyage, if you like that sort of thing. ;)

And X Men 2 was better than the first.

Mad Max 2 was also a very good sequel.

I guess there are not quite as many 'rotten eggs' in the basket as is often portrayed in terms of sequels. ;)

KBell
08-14-2003, 06:04 PM
I always loved Empire Strikes back, because i always cheered for Vader and the Empire and My brother cheered for the Rebel Alliance and Luke and my brother would be P'Oed because the Empire basically Owned the Rebels in that movie :D



He got his revenge during the next movie :p

Darth Eggplant
08-14-2003, 07:17 PM
*KBell shudders over harry Potter, well so long as you read the books which are amazing, you don't have to worry so much about the films.*

ME I am going to see SPY KIDS in 3D because obi13 gave it a good review in the manipulations movie review portion of Darth Groovy's website. www.themanipulation.com (for n00b swamp members) anyhow I kind of liked the first one and have not seena 3D film since seeing Catain Eno at Epcott like 5 times in a row. Michael Jacksons finest film moment. since being the scarcrow in 'The Wiz' (now that is a film I liked and which I doubt few have seen.) unless someone wants to post and prove me wrong.

anyhow friday is film day! I IZ so excited.

HaruGlory89
08-15-2003, 12:03 AM
Unlike most, I prefer Return of the Jedi.

Many good sequels out there, loved The Two Towers,(except for the Faramir part)

Can't wait for Return of the King.

KBell
08-15-2003, 12:06 AM
Can't wait for Return of the King


I can, i just never got into the whole LotR thing. Dunno why.

topshot
08-15-2003, 01:31 AM
originally posted by HaruGlory89:
Unlike most, I prefer Return of the Jedi.

Heh, I think we're speaking the same language, as I, too, also prefer ROTJ....... :p


Gosh, 2 similarities between the two of us : a knack for good Anime and a taste for Episode 6. Now then, time to go change my avatar like I rarely do........heh......

Shotokan
08-15-2003, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
I liked Ninja Turtles 2 that was a good movie.

Yeah!!! That movie has been one of my favorites for the longest time.

XERXES
08-15-2003, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by MydnightPsion
Terminator 2: Judgement Day is way better than the first. you are wrong my friend...how can that be when there are bewbies in the first one.:D











no, seriously!:D














:rolleyes:

BigTeddyPaul
08-15-2003, 07:56 AM
Did anyone say Austin Powers 2? I think it was better than the origianl in some regards.

Thank you for some people who said Godfather 2. Maybe better maybe not. They are both such great films that is too hard to say.

T2 was great. Again I don't know which one I liked more but still good.

Jurrasic Park 2 was not as good as the first.

That is all I can think of right now.

BigTeddyPaul

toms
08-15-2003, 12:57 PM
I forgot about mad max 2. Love that film. :D
(although mad max 1 is pretty good, but it took longer to grow on me).

No way is T2 better than the original. It is a cool film (even more so in the extended version) but it has nowhere near the originality, impact or tightness of script that the first one had.

Of course, that is partly due to sequelitis (the fact you are already familiar with the "rules" of the particular franchise). But every time the terminator got up and kept coming was a cool moment in the 1st one as you kept thinking it had finally been killed.


Spy Kids 3D is a MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT. I loved 1 and 2, but three has none of the wit, inventiveness and energy of the 1st 2. The amazing supporting cast is hardly used, more like they felt they had to get EVERY previous chaacter in for a cameo. Carmen is hardly in it, just Juni and the 3d is interesting, but hardly blows you out of your seat.
It is like a series of "wouldn't it be cool if..." 3D moments strung together without reason. :(

THe end credits are funny though. :D

BigTeddyPaul
08-15-2003, 07:03 PM
Ghostbusters! I forgot that one. The second one was not as good as teh first but I still liked it.

BigTeddyPaul

Darth Groovy
08-15-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by toms
I forgot about mad max 2. Love that film. :D
(although mad max 1 is pretty good, but it took longer to grow on me).

No way is T2 better than the original. It is a cool film (even more so in the extended version) but it has nowhere near the originality, impact or tightness of script that the first one had.

Of course, that is partly due to sequelitis (the fact you are already familiar with the "rules" of the particular franchise). But every time the terminator got up and kept coming was a cool moment in the 1st one as you kept thinking it had finally been killed.


Spy Kids 3D is a MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT. I loved 1 and 2, but three has none of the wit, inventiveness and energy of the 1st 2. The amazing supporting cast is hardly used, more like they felt they had to get EVERY previous chaacter in for a cameo. Carmen is hardly in it, just Juni and the 3d is interesting, but hardly blows you out of your seat.
It is like a series of "wouldn't it be cool if..." 3D moments strung together without reason. :(

THe end credits are funny though. :D

You talking about The Road Warrior? It's the sequal to Mad Max, but it is essentially a whole different movie, but yeah... it IS better than the original.

Kurgan
08-17-2003, 01:41 AM
Dawn of the Dead was better than Night of the Living Dead, IMHO.

Both are classics, and even though both films are dated, and the ending is darker in Night, Dawn just somehow has more "oomph" to it.

I guess because the Zombie conflict has gotten more out of hand. In Night, you got the impression that it was all going to be okay, ultimately. Dawn left you with a less optimistic feeling and the entire setting was one of mankind on the edge of panic, disorder and paranoia. The third movie carried this even farther and the makeup effects were better, but unfortunately it didn't have Dawn's likeable characters, action and dark humor.

In the same was that the grainy, B&W footage of Night gave it a certain "flavor," the cheesy colors and muffled sounds (and don't forget the music!) gave Dawn its own unique flavor that grows on you with each viewing.

Day of the Dead was effective, but too depression for my tastes. It's become the inspiration for many other movies though, like 28 Days Later (which I enjoyed).

Darth Groovy
08-17-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Dawn of the Dead was better than Night of the Living Dead, IMHO.

Both are classics, and even though both films are dated, and the ending is darker in Night, Dawn just somehow has more "oomph" to it.

I guess because the Zombie conflict has gotten more out of hand. In Night, you got the impression that it was all going to be okay, ultimately. Dawn left you with a less optimistic feeling and the entire setting was one of mankind on the edge of panic, disorder and paranoia. The third movie carried this even farther and the makeup effects were better, but unfortunately it didn't have Dawn's likeable characters, action and dark humor.

In the same was that the grainy, B&W footage of Night gave it a certain "flavor," the cheesy colors and muffled sounds (and don't forget the music!) gave Dawn its own unique flavor that grows on you with each viewing.

Day of the Dead was effective, but too depression for my tastes. It's become the inspiration for many other movies though, like 28 Days Later (which I enjoyed).

Dawn of the Dead rules! I have the VHS version, not widescreen unfortunately. :( I am keeping an eye out now for the DVD version, hopefully it has some extra junk on it as well. Dawn of the Dead was very gruesome, but very powerful, and something about that scene with the zombies wandering through the mall with the generic muzak playing in the backround works like a musical for some reason...just plain brilliant!

toms
08-19-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
You talking about The Road Warrior? It's the sequal to Mad Max, but it is essentially a whole different movie, but yeah... it IS better than the original.

It is called Mad Max 2 in the rest of the world, for some reason they changed it to the Road Warrior in the US. Not sure why...

Darklighter
08-19-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul
Did anyone say Austin Powers 2? I think it was better than the origianl in some regards.

And the third movie was definitely better than the second too. Austin Powers is one of those rare movie series that just get progressively funny with each movie. If they made yet another movie, I would still go see it, and more than likely laugh my ass off even more:D

Wayne's World is another one of those funny series of films that you just can't get enough of. Personally, I thought the second one was much better than the first, the jokes were fantastic ^^; And I must agree Groovy, Evil Dead 2 was amazing, brilliantly sick and funny at the same time, much better than the original:)

C Shutt
08-19-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
Empire was also directed by Irvin Kirshner, not Goerge Lucas, maybe that is something to think about.

Just as importantly, Lucas didn't write the screenplay, either.

Originally posted by toms
It is called Mad Max 2 in the rest of the world, for some reason they changed it to the Road Warrior in the US. Not sure why...

The first movie was virtually unknown in the US, so they renamed it rather than attempting to sell it as the sequel to a movie no one had heard of.