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View Full Version : "It's a good bet the Empire knows we're here."


Emon
08-24-2003, 09:13 PM
Early terrain for what will become
The Battle of Hoth, a Siege map for JA.
The objective is to make the closest possible
recreation of the Battle of Hoth, including
AT-ATs, snowspeeders, the full seven floors
of Echo Base (some are very small, like three
are just one room), and perhaps you'll even
see movie characters as NPCs, but I'm not
sure how I'd work that into gameplay. :)

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This is the older one only here for the sake of
labeling.
http://massassi.net/ec/images/12297.jpg

Newer and expanded. Red areas well be removed, and I'm going to make the mountains less of a box shape.
http://massassi.net/ec/images/12322.jpg

To get an idea of the scale, you can fit about four men sideways in the trenches.

The Count
08-24-2003, 09:45 PM
I'm not going to go "OMG Emonz MAP ROXORS PLZ CAN I BETA TEST?" because there isn't enough to show.

However this is a really ambitious project you're undertaking and I wish you every success in its completion, only thing that worries me is how are you going to get it as accurate as possible if you can get any NPCs in the level (I'm pretty sure you will though, you're a walking talking Jedi Knight Editing Database ;)) is the lag it might cause, especially if you can also get it to support 32 players, but I'm sure you will find a way.

Uber_Saber
08-24-2003, 09:46 PM
Just a question regarding this:

Due to the battle at Hoth having so many objectives and whatnot in the movie (a.k.a., one task group's work was merely to take down the shields so bombardment/more troops could enter. Another group's work was to gain control of the base and especially the hangars, all that.)...

What do you see the objectives as being? (Is it going to be solely anti-AT-AT for the Rebs, or are they going to have to keep the base, too? Because in the movie, (I know, I know, this isnn't the movie, but I assume the walkers won't be very easy to take down) it didn't take too long to take out the generators. On the other hand, for the Imps to try to take the base may be a bit much, too.)

Oh, and BTW, love the idea and how it sees its way through to completion. If I had any skills at editing, I'd offer to help.

Emon
08-24-2003, 10:02 PM
I'm not going to go "OMG Emonz MAP ROXORS PLZ CAN I BETA TEST?"

Please don't do that. Ever.

NPCs won't be a problem since JA already has NPCs in MP. Lag shouldn't be much of a problem either. It's just like having another player, less infact. If I decide to add a lot of NPCs, I will probably make it a scalable amount, so a really beefy server can have a lot of them. Maybe automate it by making the amount of NPCs proportional to the maxrate set on the server.


I see primary objectives for Imperials like this:

1. Break through the main Rebel defense line.

2. Take out the shield generator so reenforcements can land.

3. Override the blast doors on either entrances.

4. Seize the command center.

And secondary objectives like this:

1. Destroy/disable the ion cannon. Perhaps doing so will increase the amount of reenforcements you get?

2. Destroy/disable the power plant, which would take down the ion cannon, and the lights inside the base. I think it would be awesome to run around inside Echo Base when it's running on backup power. :)

3. Prevent Rebels from escaping. I think it would be cool if, once the Imperials seize the command center, they win, but the game doesn't end. It might be cool for the Rebels to try to escape to get some extra points, and the opposite for the Imperials. :)

And of course, Rebels' objectives are to stop Imperials from doing the above. I very well may think of more secondary objectives, probably of little importance, when I start the inside of the base.

Neverhoodian
08-24-2003, 10:10 PM
Nice to see you're making progress on your Hoth map, Emon. I believe the right word to describe the size may be "epic?" Looks good.

The Count
08-24-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Emon
Please don't do that. Ever.


Touched a nerve did I? Don't worry I won't ever do that purely on the principle that most fan based beta tests aren't done well at all; mostly people who want to try the level before anyone else and end up playing it willy-nilly, not testing each module in isolation, not using extreme or erroneous data to provoke failure etc, and the only feedback they send is yeah this is great works fine; you end up releasing it; someone tries it differently and what do you know, your making version 1.1, when you thought you done a good jobs work.

You're best off doing your own Alpha-Test, with the people who helped you create the level; that way you'll all take pride in making your level the best it is.

Anyway you should have a look at the Hoth Level on Force Commander, it was poorly done from a gamer's point of view, but it may provide a source of inspiration.

Just a suggestion though I think it would be cool if the Tauntans with players mounted could scout Hoth, and be able to report back to the team members; that would really give it a tactical edge, it would be pretty easy to do if those Radio messages are implemented into seige, or if not well just chat to team members; I'm sure Snowtrooper's could ride Speeder Bikes and do the same thing to the Rebels.

The main objectives sound good though; it also shows you've really planned this out well. :)

Emon
08-24-2003, 10:50 PM
Actually it was more the "OMG EMONZ MAP ROCKZ!!!" thing. I hate excessive fanboy style praise. If you really wanted to help test, I wouldn't mind if you asked, provided I trust you enough and know you well.

Thanks for those suggestions. I got this layout from a more official source, so I won't need to check FC, especially when I don't have it. I doubt it does much with the interior, which is what I need more info on.

Basically the idea is to setup the Battle of Hoth from the movies at the very start. Imperials will be far up in the North Ridge, and the Rebels will have to setup the defenses. The idea is that the game will take it from there, and can either play out as the Rebels holding off the Imperials at the North Ridge, falling back to the command center, or end up retreating. And of course, in the interest of balance, the Imperials won't always win.

wedge2211
08-25-2003, 02:50 AM
"Echo station 3TA! We've spotted Imperial Walkers!"
"--Imperial Walkers on the North Ridge...!"

Hmmm...isn't one of the defaul JA Siege maps Echo Base? Still, a very ambitious project, I hope you can get it to work well. I didn't know you could have NPC's in JA multiplayer...legions of Stormtroopers and brave armies or Rebel Hoth troops, with blaster bolts flying everywhere, would make this quite a sight to behold.

How's this for objectives...?

Rebel:

Primary
- Allow at least x transports to escape
- Allow Millenium Falcon to escape
Secondary
- Destroy Imperial Walkers

Imperial:

Primary
- Destroy the shield generator
- Take the Command Center
Secondary
- Destroy Anti-Infantry and Anti-Vehicle laser batteries
- Destroy the Ion Cannon

You should definitely implement some method for the Rebels to take out the Walkers (at least temporarily)...perhaps you could have a driveable snowspeeder and script conditions that an AT-AT blows up if the speeder circles it twice?

It'll be interesting to see the Rebels win this battle. ;) That gives me an idea...I wonder if a sort of 'Kobiyashi Maru' scenario could be made, where one side could be utterly destroyed, but scored on how well they did before dying? For instance, this game continues until the Imperials overrun Echo Base, but if enough transports escaped, they fail in their primary objectives and the Rebels still win.

jp-30
08-25-2003, 03:00 AM
There were some ESB cut scenes where a "prison cell" full of captured Wampas (apparently enticed by R2's whistling) was stumbled upon by some snowies, thanks in part to 3PO. :D

Though I realise this project is ambitious enough as it is, it would make an interesting "easter egg" to have that room of Wampa NPCs ready to attack anyone who stumbled into the cell.

Some references for these cut Wampa scenes are here;

http://www.angelfire.com/ct3/empirethrone/empirelostscenes.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/wampa/bts.html

http://www.dsuper.net/~ymorin/ESBcut.html

http://wso.williams.edu/~rfoxwell/starwars/CutPics1.htm


Also, you are probably aware, but there's a good Snowspeeder prefab for JO about. I think this was the one I saw (images are down, so it's hard to tell);

http://www.jedioutcastmaps.com/file.php?id=445

There's a mirror here;

http://www.filefront.com/r.b/page__category_list/_filepath__/gamingfiles/Jedi_Knight_II/Maps/Prefabs/_clear__page,filepath/_output.html

Emon
08-25-2003, 03:45 AM
Thanks guys. Those sound like some good objectives, wedge. And I was planning on doing the Wampa egg too. :)

wedge, the circling thing isn't so hard as is the cable itself.

Patrick_H
08-25-2003, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by wedge2211
Hmmm...isn't one of the default JA Siege maps Echo Base?

Hmmm... I wonder how he would know this?

Emon
08-25-2003, 04:02 AM
Dude there are screenshots everywhere.

jp-30
08-25-2003, 04:21 AM
You know, it would be good to be able to open that Wampa door remotely.

If the control room had a video camera and a switch for that door, whoever had posession of the control room could open the door as the enemy entered the adjoining corridor.

Uber_Saber
08-25-2003, 12:52 PM
But in that case, you'd have to have the Wampas on a main corridor, or have it on a side corridor that could be a sneaky way of getting to the control room. (Just an idea. Always provide the alternative route in.)

Emon
08-26-2003, 04:33 AM
I start school Wednesday, but I should be free on the weekend. I hope to get some 3ds max or ingame shots within the next week or so.

Emon
08-26-2003, 05:33 AM
3ds max render for the hell of it.
http://massassi.net/ec/images/12420.jpg

jp-30
08-26-2003, 08:20 AM
I doubt it does much with the interior, which is what I need more info on.

I have 4 pages scanned into 2 JPGs from "Star Wars Fact Files" on Echo Base, with movie stills, concept paintings, lots of info in the text, plus a pretty good map of the main hangar bay (and the overall location map you've obviously based your (great looking) render on.

Emon, if you want me to send you the 2 scans (JPGs, ~1400x1000) let me know, email is the most convenient for me, even with my inbox clogged up with damn SOBIG generated emails, both with the attachment and bounced mails from virus emails spoofed with my domain. :mad:

I'm still looking around for other interior plans - maybe the RPG books would be a good source?

Emon
08-26-2003, 02:11 PM
I can get you a temporary FTP account at my friend's site, and you can upload them there. I'd really prefer to keep away from e-mail if you have SoBig problems, I haven't gotten any of them yet, and I'd rather not get any.

Darth_Linux
08-26-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by jp-30
There were some ESB cut scenes where a "prison cell" full of captured Wampas (apparently enticed by R2's whistling) was stumbled upon by some snowies, thanks in part to 3PO. :D

Though I realise this project is ambitious enough as it is, it would make an interesting "easter egg" to have that room of Wampa NPCs ready to attack anyone who stumbled into the cell.


The second level of Shadows of the Empire takes place inside Echo Base and includes the Wampa rooms. Not sure if you can find it for PC but it is easily found for N64 on eBay. Might be worth consulting, at least for some ideas.

Emon
08-26-2003, 06:13 PM
Not sure about the wampa area, but I explored the rest of Echo Base on SotE PC, and man, it was a bunch of nonsense! It wasn't at all like the movie.

jp-30
08-26-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Emon
I can get you a temporary FTP account at my friend's site, and you can upload them there. I'd really prefer to keep away from e-mail if you have SoBig problems, I haven't gotten any of them yet, and I'd rather not get any.

I don't have the virus, and I don't use Outlook/Outlook express which is what it uses to propagate. But my domain is being spoofed by it because I must be on an infected user's address book.

Anyway, no problem, I'll upload the images to a work site & PM you the URLs when I get home tonight. When you've saved them, let me know & I'll remove them. :)

Captian
08-28-2003, 10:53 PM
dood thats awesome. hope your planning on using the EXCELLENT atat model by david revera url here (http://www.pcgamemods.com/120/)

jp-30
08-30-2003, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by jp-30
Anyway, no problem, I'll upload the images to a work site & PM you the URLs when I get home tonight. When you've saved them, let me know & I'll remove them. :)

Been away for 3 days. Will sort this out later tonight for you.

The Cheat
08-31-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Captian
dood thats awesome. hope your planning on using the EXCELLENT atat model by david revera url here (http://www.pcgamemods.com/120/)

i think changes would have to be made to that model in order to make it ridable ingame but im not sure

Captian
09-01-2003, 01:00 AM
youd just need to do animation for it, thats all

Wudan
09-01-2003, 12:47 PM
The AT-AT that's being built by Corto (of CortoCG.com fame) is being rigged an animated already. That model looks like it might just be brushwork, which you *could* get rigged up and animated, but I don't think the end result would be as impressive, unless you spent a lot of time on it.

Eldritch
09-01-2003, 03:04 PM
That is brushwork. It's a prefab, not a model.

The Count
09-16-2003, 09:58 AM
This is stupid; Emon should be unbanned immediatley, he has probably bought the full game by now. :rolleyes:

wedge2211
09-16-2003, 02:55 PM
Uh...huh? I think I missed something...

Eldritch
09-16-2003, 03:01 PM
Wedge, I think Emon got banned for saying something about that leaked beta. Either he implied he had it, said something about it, or someone told on him.

GothiX
09-16-2003, 03:17 PM
Well, I did a search for "Emon banned", and there appeared to be a mod-only thread named "Ban: Emon"...

Shotokan
09-17-2003, 04:45 AM
I thought he got unbanned by now?

The Cheat
09-17-2003, 10:16 AM
well at least he will get to work on the map more since he wont spend most of his life here during his punishment

Neverhoodian
09-19-2003, 02:26 AM
Yeah, I hope Emon gets unbanned so he can update us on the progress of his map. I mean c'mon, JA is already out in the U.S. and will come out fairly soon, if not already, in the U.K. There's all sorts of full-game JA topics from folks who bought the game. I don't think it's too much to ask to unban him.

GothiX
09-19-2003, 12:35 PM
Well, for as far as I know there haven't been major updates; though that is also based on the fact that he hasn't posted any on Massassi, where he also showcases.

Uplink
09-22-2003, 05:18 PM
Cool! This is going to be so sweet. I cant wait to stick it to some :atat: s on this map.
Now to persuade my parents to buy me Jedi Academy...

Emon
09-26-2003, 03:56 AM
...calm down. There are no updates.

I got banned for making a mistake, I thought it was harmless, it wasn't. Ooh, who cares, let it go. Don't complain because the moderators enforced the rules.

Neverhoodian
09-26-2003, 03:31 PM
Good to see you're back, Emon. Yeah, take your time on the map. Nice to have you back.

JorenDarkStar
10-09-2003, 10:20 PM
Just one question. Isn't there already a Hoth level very similar to this already bundled?

Or are tyou making this because its more ESB related, where as the Raven map, although good, is more like a hodge-podge?

DarkLord60
10-09-2003, 11:38 PM
Yes there is a siege map based on hoth but it is totally inaccurate

JorenDarkStar
10-10-2003, 01:10 AM
Yes, but is anything really ever accurate? Thats what I meant by Hodge-Podge. They just chucked the meat in there, and left it a hoth seige. Still is fun though!

Emon
10-10-2003, 09:15 PM
It's not supposed to be accurate. I'm not insulting the Siege map, I like it a lot, and even the author of it told me it wasn't meant to be the movie battle. Obviously. He even wished me luck on my own.

JorenDarkStar
10-10-2003, 10:23 PM
Didn't say you were. Honestly, I had no idea where I was going with that line of questioning. Just curious I guess. Good Luck!

tFighterPilot
12-15-2003, 02:18 PM
Is the project dead?

GothiX
12-15-2003, 02:33 PM
For as far as I know, Emon kinda has a downtime.. I seriously hope this project will be completed later, it was quite ambitious.

tFighterPilot
12-15-2003, 03:36 PM
And had my snow speeder within! ;)

tFighterPilot
12-23-2003, 04:26 PM
Is Emon still around?

Emon
12-23-2003, 07:51 PM
Yes.

GothiX
12-23-2003, 08:16 PM
Best. Post. Ever.

tFighterPilot
12-23-2003, 08:51 PM
Yes, yes indeed.

I even did a search for your name, and it showed that the last time you posted was a few days ago.

SiThLoRd><1000
01-02-2004, 01:16 AM
Anything going on with the project? It was looking very nice and I was wondering.

Lightning
01-03-2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by SiThLoRd><1000
Anything going on with the project? It was looking very nice and I was wondering.

don't think so

tFighterPilot
01-03-2004, 04:43 PM
Well that suck...

tFighterPilot
02-22-2004, 03:12 PM
:(

Andy867
02-22-2004, 03:32 PM
From my understanding of a reliable source, Emon is no longer working on Hoth. he has actually not been doing it for some time now.

lassev
02-22-2004, 03:44 PM
Is he anymore working on anything related to Jedi Knight ? I don't remember seeing him around that much lately. Maybe at Massassi, though... There was a time, when he was here often dealing out obscure bits of knowledge that were hard to interpret, but maybe useful after you succeeded in that...

GothiX
02-22-2004, 03:48 PM
According to his thread over at Massassi, he's no longer doing anything editing-related for a while, merely taking a break. My bet is that he'll get back to it sometime. :)

tFighterPilot
02-22-2004, 03:50 PM
I hope so.

BTW, have you noticed my cool new post count ;)

Pahricida
02-25-2004, 01:11 PM
uhh ... who did you screw up with to get such an outrageous post count?

XD

tFighterPilot
02-25-2004, 01:19 PM
I made a thread which was called "4 posts until 1000" and posted
First post: 3
Second post: 2
Third post: 1
Forth post: Happy millenium!

Lightning
02-25-2004, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by tFighterPilot
I made a thread which was called "4 posts until 1000" and posted
First post: 3
Second post: 2
Third post: 1
Forth post: Happy millenium!


That's just lame, who ever done that could have just deleted the thread. And don't give me the but he spammed bull **** becouse if you really don't want spam on your bbs then don't give away "awards" when you get to 1000 posts........

Prime
02-25-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Lightning
That's just lame, who ever done that could have just deleted the thread. But he learned his lesson, didn't he :)

tFighterPilot
02-25-2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Prime
But he learned his lesson, didn't he :) These posts were the only spam I ever made.

Master Lion
02-27-2004, 10:19 AM
Emon I think you most work at that map. I hope so really the map come out and now I hear the project is dead. Why? I was hope to fly in snowspeeders and move with AT-ATs. If the map its ready it should be great. Especially as a siege map becouse there aren't many siege maps. :o

SO GO FOR IT! ;)

tFighterPilot
02-27-2004, 11:24 AM
Emon does not exist anymore.

GothiX
02-27-2004, 11:58 AM
He posted at Massassi less than 5 hours ago. *shrug*

Kurgan
05-16-2004, 12:07 PM
That's too bad, I was really looking forward to seeing his project.

Well, we all need a break sometimes.

Maybe if he sees the AT-AT and other related stuff (that would fit well into his project) finished that will encourage him to start working on it again?


; )

tFighterPilot
05-16-2004, 12:09 PM
I think someone else is making a hoth siege map

rancorkiller
06-03-2004, 08:31 AM
I heard your needing atat's.
I have found an atat's that you can ride.
I can be cool to ride them in the map.

tFighterPilot
06-03-2004, 08:43 AM
I hate resoruction of dead things (IE this thread)

The Truthful Liar
06-03-2004, 11:02 AM
CLOSED!

TADA!

Kurgan
09-11-2004, 06:42 PM
Yeah, if Emon decides to take it up again, good for him. If not, oh well.

For now at least people can search and find it and maybe they'll get inspired... ; )