PDA

View Full Version : Chaotic saber battles?


Samus
09-11-2003, 07:28 PM
Anyone else who thinks the saber battles seem a bit chaotic?
I mean, it's a bit difficult to control the saber and hit the opponent where you want (especially with the lightstaff). This makes the saber battles mostly about hitting some buttons and hope for the best.
Here's an idea for later if there is to be more games in this series:
Wouldn't it be cool if when fighting dark jedi, you would enter a sort of combat mode, where you can control your strokes more precisely? This could make the saber battles more like in the movies.

Sgt. Antronch
09-11-2003, 07:32 PM
Yeah i know i was optomistic but i wanted to wield the saberstaff like darth maul vs obi wan (not qui gon i mean after he's dead)

Maverick Knight
09-11-2003, 07:44 PM
Blame the JKII 1.04 patch for that. It upped the saber defense so it's almost impossible to get a hit in unless you come at them with like 10-15 strokes combo'ed together.

*Sigh* Didn't we already complain about this when that patch came out?

Prime
09-11-2003, 07:48 PM
I think you have a great amount of control, especially considering your using a mouse and a keyboard. I find I can place blows right where I want. Frankly, I've found button mashing is the best way to get killed...

Chuahtemoc
09-11-2003, 07:49 PM
so learn to integrate force speed. works for me. :)

Kurgan
09-11-2003, 08:11 PM
It may seem "chaotic and random" right now, but once people learn the moves it will be as skillful as any fighting game.


Ever play a Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat game against somebody who doesn't know how to play? They just hit buttons at random (aka "buttom mashing") and hope for the best.

But any good player knows that beating these people is easy, so long as you don't get over-confident (and let them get lucky).

The same should be true of Jedi Academy (or Jedi Outcast for that matter).

And please, stop whining about the blocking and saber damage, those can be easily adjusted in the console cvars, regardless of what patch you're using.

JA players will have even less excuse than JK2 players had. Not only will they have the readme file and the manual, but also an IN-GAME MOVIE demonstration (in the 'datapad') that tells you exactly how to do each and every saber move and acrobatic.

Kidso
09-11-2003, 08:14 PM
If your just hitting the buttons hoping for the best you might as well go play the machines at the nearest pub or bar near you.

If you actually take your time and try to place your hits you can very easily but don't expect the reborn to not defend themselves. Seems like if a game gets to hard people complain, I like a game thats hard to play. Whats the point in playing if its easy?

Reprehence
09-11-2003, 08:16 PM
Anyone feel like single saber is still easiest to control? Some of the combo moves for the double and the staff can seem chaotic - particularly the jumping spinning stuff. It seems canned and mostly un-aimable.

Kidso
09-11-2003, 08:21 PM
What would be easier to control in real life? If lightsabers existed that is, lol.

StormHammer
09-11-2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Prime
I think you have a great amount of control, especially considering your using a mouse and a keyboard. I find I can place blows right where I want. Frankly, I've found button mashing is the best way to get killed...

I wholeheartedly agree. :)

Button-mashing gets you killed pretty fast, both in JO and now in JA. While you're swinging like mad, you're completely open to attack. If you take a little more time, and only swing (or make a move) when you see an opening, you last a lot longer.

It's deeply satisfying pulling off one of the new moves as a finishing move.

The only 'button-mashing' I do is during a saber-lock - or when my fingers fumble trying to press three keys at the same time... :p

Kurgan
09-11-2003, 08:44 PM
A lot of people will whine at first, but eventually they will learn (or quit playing the game and give our eyes and ears a break, whichever comes first).

I think the reason some people are finding the single saber "easier to control" is simply because it is so little changed from Jedi Outcast, and they are already used to using it.

In real life, we don't have "The Force" to help us, so using a lightsaber in battle would be very difficult and we couldn't do most of the things we see people do with them in the JK series (or the prequel movies). And you'll also have to remember that in the time of the Old Republic, they were trained with sabers from early childhood. ; )

Kidso
09-11-2003, 09:01 PM
ok ok, lol but the same transfers over to real weapons anyway. I think Raven did a really good job making the three stances require totally different strategy.

princessliar
09-11-2003, 09:07 PM
It just takes practice. :) I'm much better at saber fighting now than I was when I first got the demo. There's still room for improvement though... :D

Samus
09-11-2003, 09:15 PM
Yeah, I guess we will learn to use the moves right, but my main point is that it looks chaotic. It may have something to do with the saber trails. They seem a bit "jagged" in a way. And sometimes I think they are sort of "exaggerated", for example when you do that move with dual sabers where they leave your hand and fly all over the place.

Iblis Reborn
09-11-2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
A lot of people will whine at first, but eventually they will learn (or quit playing the game and give our eyes and ears a break, whichever comes first).


what if they actually whine all the things that kill them out of existence...like lightsabers for example...AGAIN!

i really hope that raven knows that ppl always whine and thats not a valid reason to nerf things *crosses fingers*

TiBo
09-11-2003, 11:08 PM
I actually really like the depth of the saber system. I find that if you look where your opponent is attacking eg: your head, legs, body, etc. you can aim your attacks to go right by his saber. So if he hits high, hit low. Its very realistic.

Chuahtemoc
09-11-2003, 11:15 PM
personally i think the sabers are pretty practical, i mean, if you REALLY dont know what you're doing, you can try button mashing and you MAY win one or two saber fights on padawan, but i guess sabering ain't that simple any more. It does take a good amount of skill to get through chandrila on jedi knight (the level i started on). i beat JO on master and the jedi weren't as smart as they are on knight in JA, which is a good thing.

MasterZephyr
09-11-2003, 11:17 PM
Yes, they have really revamped the AI skill level.

Neverhoodian
09-11-2003, 11:19 PM
Well, I remember the first time I played JO. It was the demo Alzoc III mission. When I fought my first Reborn, it was pure button-mashing, as I didn't know the first thing about saber fighting. My first impression was "geez, this is chaotic." over time, though, I learned all the different saber moves and found out strategies to use on them. I think it's a great saber system now in JO. Now I'm playing the JA demo and getting used to the double bladed and dual sabers, and I'm thinking "geez, this is chaotic." I know though that it'll probably be like JO, where you just have to figure it out and master the moves, then things will flow smoothly.

.:Silver:.
09-11-2003, 11:21 PM
I found it quite simple, after a little practice, to hit when and wear I wanted. Jump+W+Attack works wonders now. Do it against a crowd of three or more and watch the bodies fall.

Chuahtemoc
09-11-2003, 11:22 PM
geez those guys were easy. but then again, it wasnt my tfirst time with the series, and besides, i had been playing soldier of fourtune as well so i was a good marksman. the first bas--Jedi i took down with the e11, force pushing him, then i shot him when he taunted me--stupid untrained wannabe jedi--the second jedi is even easier. I think the impression they're trying to make is that one is the master and the other is the student, but i found the master easier than the student, lol.

Kidso
09-11-2003, 11:28 PM
It's gonna be different then JO in that there are more ways to kill your oponent with all the moves its pretty crazy.

Chuahtemoc
09-11-2003, 11:31 PM
affirmative kidso, but i hope they havent waned out the guns. the concussion rifle better be as good as i remember it back in Jedi Knight: Dark Forces.

MasterZephyr
09-11-2003, 11:34 PM
I hope the concussion rifle isnt too powerful, because then the saber will go the way of the dinosaur.

Kidso
09-11-2003, 11:37 PM
You can repel the conc with the power of the push!

Prime
09-11-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by MasterZephyr
I hope the concussion rifle isnt too powerful, because then the saber will go the way of the dinosaur. never!

Volkam
09-11-2003, 11:46 PM
I agree with you MasterZephyr. In my opinion to balance the concussion rifle with the rest of the other weaponds they should put the repetition and the speed of the projectil slower, so anyone could just push it away like the rocket.

Spinalcraft
09-11-2003, 11:49 PM
Ever play a Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat game against somebody who doesn't know how to play? They just hit buttons at random (aka "buttom mashing") and hope for the best.

w0rd

At first, when I played the demo for JK3, It did seem like button mashing for me too.. but then, really there isnt any big amount of differences from SP JK2 and SP JK3, the lightsaber speeds are almost identical..

Give it some time, and before you know it, button mashing = suicide

Kidso
09-12-2003, 12:40 AM
The conc rifle is fine the way it is, it can be evaided easily and it can be pushed, Kinda remindes me of the BFG in Doom/Quake the way it kicks you back and makes the hum sound.

Chuahtemoc
09-12-2003, 12:47 AM
i still think its too strong.

Kidso
09-12-2003, 01:01 AM
lol, man you just finished saying how you don't want it to be underpowered.

"affirmative kidso, but i hope they havent waned out the guns. the concussion rifle better be as good as i remember it back in Jedi Knight: Dark Forces."

It's no different besides the fact that now jedi can deflect the damn thing, before it meant certain death for jedi.

BuRn
09-12-2003, 06:06 AM
the spinning moves arent that hard to control, the flip attack with the dual sabers is very easy to turn while doing the move and catching your target in the side....or back

Master William
09-12-2003, 07:24 AM
Well, you're not supposed to run around and swing.
Mostly, do tricks (combos and that stuff) and if you are low on Force, THEN you can run around and swing crazy, and even then, be sure what swinging is the most effective.

Thazac
09-12-2003, 11:16 AM
I've said it before and I say it again:
First time I played Chandrila with dual sabers I was cut to tiny pieces (on Padawan I might add :rolleyes: )
Now I win roughly 85% of the lightsaber fights on Jedi Knight difficulty.
I haven't tried Chandrila on Master yet but I guess that is to come...

Kidso
09-12-2003, 02:33 PM
Jedi Master is very hard!! The part after the blown up bridge is killer! Those three Reborn kick my ass every time, it's contant drain, saber throw, drain, choke, the hole time and then they slice me, lol.

Prime
09-12-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Kidso
Jedi Master is very hard!! The part after the blown up bridge is killer! Those three Reborn kick my ass every time, it's contant drain, saber throw, drain, choke, the hole time and then they slice me, lol. Not using Absorb?

MASTER Siggeman
09-12-2003, 04:53 PM
Yeah, the saber battles can get crazy. But crazy get be good. I got into a lock with a reborn (I had 2 sabers, it had 1) and one saber of mine just drifted away, around the rebord and sliced him while we were still in the lock. Crazy stuff lol.

Thazac
09-12-2003, 08:09 PM
Just like in vanilla JO then; if your enemy had ~20 hp or less when he lost a saber lock an animation would be played where you cut his hand off.
Seems like it was carried over as I've quite often thrusted my saber in the stomach of enemies losing locks or held their saber away while slicing them open with the other. The saber throw animation has never happened to me though.

Chuahtemoc
09-12-2003, 08:42 PM
i just read something somewhere... where someone talked about cutting the staff saber in half.. and i just did it and am wholly awed :P

i got into this saber lock with the staff guy at the end of chandrila, and i meant to force push but i force pulled instead, and then i slashed straight down. That noise u hear where the saber sparks against the box was heard, and the oponent magically had two sabers. that was the ****. :)

Nerdman5
09-12-2003, 10:28 PM
You know, some people seem to not remember back to the old days of Jedi Knight. You were better off shooting than using your lightsaber. But now everyone complains about the new system (which rocks) and about control. Doesn't anyone remember back when you had 3 different slashes for saberfighting? And about the complete lack of acrobatics? I think some people need to give lucasarts and raven more credit. The new game is awsome. So I think some people need to stop looking the gift horse in the mouth.

Prime
09-13-2003, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by Nerdman5
You know, some people seem to not remember back to the old days of Jedi Knight. You were better off shooting than using your lightsaber. But now everyone complains about the new system (which rocks) and about control. Doesn't anyone remember back when you had 3 different slashes for saberfighting? And about the complete lack of acrobatics? I think some people need to give lucasarts and raven more credit. The new game is awsome. So I think some people need to stop looking the gift horse in the mouth. I completely agree. For those of us who have played video games since the Atari days, how long have you dreamed of a game like this? I mean, I remember when the vector graphics X-Wing Star Wars game was considered amazing. Heaven forbid you actually have to use a little imagination. We are spoiled with games like this :)

Cecil
09-13-2003, 02:05 AM
Also back then the secondary attack of the saber did about 100 to shields and 95 to 85 to health which was pretty crappy if you wanted to saber duel.

Chuahtemoc
09-13-2003, 04:45 PM
that last part i dont recall, but we definitely are spoiled by the type of stuff they create these days :)

Kidso
09-13-2003, 05:07 PM
Agreed. ;)

cheapherk
09-13-2003, 08:33 PM
Blame the JKII 1.04 patch for that.

That's when I stopped playing Jedi Outcast mulitplayer. Never have I seen a complete turnaround in gameplay as I did when this patch came out.

Agen
09-13-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by cheapherk
That's when I stopped playing Jedi Outcast mulitplayer. Never have I seen a complete turnaround in gameplay as I did when this patch came out.
Please don't bring that crap into this game... we had enough of the whining in jk2 and it basically ruined the game in the end.

Anyhoo, I've kinda gave into temptation.... i was gonna wait til ja came out and have a fresh game to play...... I'm downloading the demko now

Though after reading this, my loyalty to each game is collding..... In JK1 - Concussion rifle pwnz all your @sses, GuNz for ever!... in JK2 - The Saber is the business.. gun people are immature whiners and in a lower league -_-
:-/

BTW, These colours are taking away my arrogance/confidence to spread my opinion..... :(

Dator202
09-14-2003, 02:49 PM
yep, I agree - the first go at the demo for me was nothing but "botton praying" and hope I get lucky. But now, with time and learning on my side. Whoohooo!, I love the saber battles now. Now you can really plan your attacks to get the most out of them.

For me this game is a dream come true!

Raspster
09-15-2003, 12:26 AM
well, I just started up a game of JO and there is a BIG difference in saber combat. In JO the sabers clashed more and blocked properly. I then started a game in JA and only used 1 saber and seems like there is NO saber contact to the point where the sabers would clash properly and go into the next sequence of saber combos. Its just not real. JO was very close to movie saber battles where JA its just mashing. At first I thought it was me but I tried over and over again and not the same. Now I know this is only a demo but lets hope they fix this in final release.