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geddiesburg
09-14-2003, 11:30 PM
I've read countless complaints with JK2 and JKA about the difficulty of the saber fights. I've found the opposite. The reborn rarely defend themselves, which is strange. With lucas arts going for a movie-like game, you would think they would want the saber fights to last. The longest fight I've had is about 30-50 seconds on the hardest setting in both games. I want to be challenged. These fights should last minutes. After all, how long was the fight between darth maul vs. obi wan & qui gon? Is there anyway to increase enemy defence levels? Any other comments or thoughts on this?

Andrew

Agen
09-14-2003, 11:47 PM
The more gamish... the better :)

TiBo
09-14-2003, 11:49 PM
I thought the fights were really realistic. Seriously, if they were as hard as you want them to be(5 minute fights), you would be complaining that they are too hard.

StormHammer
09-14-2003, 11:55 PM
Well, it obviously depends on your level of skill. If you're a very skilled player, then obviously the duels are going to be shorter.

The other thing you have to keep in mind...they want people to finish the game. If every saber fight in SP lasts 5 minutes or more, not everyone has the patience to play the whole game that way, and the game would obviously take much longer to complete. The Jedi Tomb level of the demo took me about 1 hour 20 minutes the first time through (Jedi Knight difficulty and without bothering with finding the secrets)...which is a good length of time, IMHO.

It's just a matter of preference, I guess. ;)

Prime
09-15-2003, 12:01 AM
IMO, JA has taken the already excellent lightsaber fights and made them even more outstanding. I'm not really sure what else they could do to improve them. Adding much more in the way of controls and moves would make it too cumbersome.

Sir Wolfbiter
09-15-2003, 12:02 AM
I've found a great amount of variation in the length of the fights. I find that using an offensive strategy early (not just holding down primary attack and moving, mind you - bringing the pain strategicly, not stupidly) ends fights quickly. I have no idea why this is, maybe it's just my style of play. If a play defensive, especially against multiple opponents, then I usually lose.

Raspster
09-15-2003, 12:15 AM
There is not as much saber clashing in JA. Not like in JK2 atleast. The single player saber duels in JK2 were GREAT! The sabers were bouncing off each other like crazy. Thats the way its sapose to be. That is not the case in JA. Atleast the demo that is. Seems like the sabers are alittle too wild and just hack and slash. I hope this is something they will fix for final release. Hopfully they have added combos to deflect with combos or something. Theses saber duels in JA are like the very first MP in JK2 that everyone complained about. Then when the patch came out, they made it better and more like SP JK2.

StormHammer
09-15-2003, 12:26 AM
You know...as an addendum to what I said above...I've been playing through JO's SP again today, and I've played and replayed some of the same encounters with the Reborn. The first time I played an encounter, it might have taken me a couple of minutes. The second time - I managed to land a forward lunge, and timed it exactly right (more by blind luck, I might add), and it was a one-hit kill. The fight lasted about 5 seconds.

So it very much depends on the tactics you use, and the types of attack that you can land well. I've had a similar experience playing the JA demo.

I mean, some fights are over before they even start if you just push the Reborn before they can jump up to the ledge you're on. Others can last a couple of minutes depending on the tactics you use.

Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with the saber combat in the demo - some great fights, and cool finishing moves in there.

Kusanavi
09-15-2003, 12:54 AM
When I played through JO's sp IMO the lenght of the saber battles (sp?) were very short (around 20-30 secs) but as I played through the JA demo in Jedi Knight difficulty the battles were long enough for me to enjoy with the single and dual sabers but considering that the dual sabers are a mix of button mashing attacks (IMO) I always kill the cultist in 20 secs and I hope I'll have even longer MP duels in JA (mines were from a minute to 5 long)

shukrallah
09-15-2003, 01:08 AM
The only thing i dont like about the JA and JK2 saber fighting is if you watch the movies, you see that vader and luke are constantly blocking, and the sabers quickly lock then release with every block, but its not like that in JA, or JK2. If you look at kotor (the X-Box movie) and you look at the saber fight, thats what im talking about. But still, the JK2 and JA are excellant games, and the first to make such awesome saber battles (that i know of)

geddiesburg
09-15-2003, 01:13 AM
Hey everyone. I wasn't clear enough above. I was just wondering (hoping) there was or could be an adjustable saber battle difficulty setting. Something beyond the opening settings. Maybe after beating the game once, settings could be unlocked to change skills and styles of opponents? I've found that JA reborn are mostly offensive, so maybe customize them to be more defensive, for longer, more challenging battles. It's not that I'm unsatisfied with the way the game and fights play out now, infact it's the opposite to this. I am just hoping for more customization for more advanced players to create more of a challange.

Andrew

Iblis Reborn
09-15-2003, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by geddiesburg
These fights should last minutes. After all, how long was the fight between darth maul vs. obi wan & qui gon?
Andrew

thats true but that fight is a gamers equivalent to a boss fight isnt it?
the final boss of the game as a matter of fact

the rest are just the little henchmen
the main hero isnt suppost to have too much trouble with them

Kidso
09-15-2003, 02:06 AM
Most people are just never happy, and whats worse they don't know what they want, lol. The saber fighting in JA is nothing short of outstanding! It requires strategy to kill the reborn and frankly JO was a joke in single player, the reborn were so easy to kill it was pathetic. The reborn are badass in this one and they work together. Saber clashing? I still get a lot of it, maybe you need to turn your graphics up.

peloquin
09-15-2003, 02:27 AM
yes there is a way. In outcast it was in the npc.cfg but for JA it looks like each npc (non player controled) character has its own .cfg so like kyle.cfg. Find it in one of the assets.pk3 and open it in note pad. before you open it in notepad make sure to open the properties for the file and take the read only off, then you will be able to save the changes.

In the .cfg file it has all the things listed that you want to change, looks kinda like this:

player model kyle
aggresion: 4
defence: 3
forceuse: 4
walkspeed: 78
height: 90
health: 100

Basically has stuff like that. The scale is from 0 to 5. If you want more defence just change whatever number is there to defence 5 you can also be more specific like with the reborns thay have listed stuff like likelyhood of saberlock, taunt, and what force they use and how often. for eg: saberlock 2 = will happen now and again saberlock 5 will happen quite alot. You can make them a lightning whore or have it so they're excellent saberists who don't use much force at all.

I also go in and change the health for most of my npc's Reborns I usually put up to 1000 health which means saberfights will last for a good 5 minutes. Something to play arround with till you get it just right for how you want it. Have fun, any questions I'll try and help you out.

geddiesburg
09-15-2003, 02:52 AM
Thank you very much for the info! Very useful. I just don't see saberlock. Does it go under a different name or is it just not there? (or am I blind?!)

Andrew

geddiesburg
09-15-2003, 02:56 AM
hahaha, actually - now the game won't launch - it's detected that I've screwed with the .pk3 and says it is corrupt. Oopsie! Any ideas?!

peloquin
09-15-2003, 02:57 AM
no probs, saberlock might not be there but that's ok just add it. You might have to look through all of the npc.cfg's just to get the exact wording but I'm pretty sure it's saberlock. So just add the line saberlock 5 . I'd suggest putting around 3 though cause you don't want a saberlock everytime you touch sabers.

peloquin
09-15-2003, 03:01 AM
heh, i should have said before, we have to wait till the game comes out, the demo wont let you do it. All this stuff is from doing it in outcast and looking at the files in the demo. They are set out the same basically. Also make sure you pack it back up right, so npcdata/players/kyle.cfg something like that.

geddiesburg
09-15-2003, 03:21 AM
I was just trying to make these adjustments to JK2 and I have found that none of the saber related settings exist in the npc.cfg file. Do I just add them or am I looking at the wrong thing?

cheeto101
09-15-2003, 03:27 AM
Personally, i find that my fight length is dependant on how nice of a kill i want. If i just want some crappy generic looking kill, like a shot to the shoulder or the legs, then my fights are short. If i want a good clean chop through the chest or shoulders, or if i want a sweet cinematic finish with a kata or jumping attack, my battles last alot longer and are way more satisfying.

peloquin
09-15-2003, 03:49 AM
most of the time you can just add the line you want. I'm not sure but i think if any problems pop up it has to do with the player class and what defaults are set for each class. Like getting the weequay to wield lightsabers, adding the line for them wont work cause there player class wont allow it. All I can say for now is play arround with it like I did, when the game comes out I will have it all moded within an hour or two and would have no prob in sending you the files, or walking you through it.

It's great to be able to set the game up exactly the way you want it too. Like with the maul to reborn mod for outcast, just changing the skin is one thing but changing the way the character acts is another level beyond that. With JA there looks like there's much more to play arround with. You can change a skin and then set the character to act like the skin you've just changed it to. So maul would always have the lightstaff, would only use push and pull, be pretty agressive, agile and kinda grunt every now and then (hehe) and all that is so simple to do.

Tesshu021
09-15-2003, 04:38 AM
Earlier u said Reborn are offensive....so u are defensive?, The reborn i fight constantly dodge and deflect my saber yes there is a deflection if u would try a move besides a rolling stab u would know this =P, however the deflection isn't enough to be noticed but if it was would that not be the way a person would die in mp?

Delfecting sabers in the movies normally resulted in a strong push knocking the person down, so would that mean a instant win?, do u want the hitting while down that JO had or do u want a way to get out of it besides quickly tapping ur jump button(personally i like jumping up and kicking them but they counter it alot then stab me in the tummy owie!)

If u want to see a defense reborn then just watch them they will dodge ur moves deflect some of ur attks parry beside u its all there u just miss it cause u try to do moves while they just toss a saber at u cause ur at a distance.

I had a saber battle earlier lasted about 8 minutes was with the very first reborn on chand lvl, he kept twirling at me hopping on the walls, draining, lightning, pushing, throwing etc it was a excellent fight i LOST!, damit all i lost lol well what i am saying is if u want defensive reborns then attack them don't wait for them to attack u and come on the forums and talk about how they aren't defensive heh just my 2cents.

Latas,
Tesshu Fujikota
Padawan Dual-Lightsabers

Javva the Hutt
09-15-2003, 04:45 AM
I too have found that if I fight aggressively and strategically then the battles last a few seconds to a minute. Inversely if I am taking a defensive stance then they tend to drag on, if I don't end up dead.

Seems like the reverse of the Jedi Code IMO.

Then again it is a game and not the movies.

AxVegetA
09-15-2003, 07:17 AM
Well fighting reborns is simply boring, because they are easy in jedi master level and setting sp_skill 3 or more, i have managed to kill 10 reborns 5 staff 3 duals and 2 singles, just with my single saber.
Fighting reborns is more like thinking "how can i finish you in a cool way"
Besides, its boring because of the fact that in MP people doesnt play like that (ill play multiplayer first, and some days later ill play SP).
There is a big diference between JA SP and JA MP, same as JO.
The pulls, the push, the rolls everything is diferent.


BY the way i killed kyle_boss all by myself :D, i finished him with the feet graple :D :D :D

geddiesburg
09-15-2003, 01:27 PM
Thenk you very much peloquin - I'll definatelly request your help when JA comes out! You da man!

Andrew

Prime
09-15-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by AxVegetA
Besides, its boring because of the fact that in MP people doesnt play like that (ill play multiplayer first, and some days later ill play SP).
There is a big diference between JA SP and JA MP, same as JO.
Right that MP is a lot different because in MP most people just spam one move...

DFA DFA DFA DFA lunge lunge lunge DFA :D

Thazac
09-15-2003, 02:40 PM
Well, I've tried two different ways of fighting with my dual sabers.
Basically n00b-bashing or button mashing and more strategical using enemy defense gaps and "special" moves

On Jedi difficulty (the reborn are too weak HP-wise on higher levels) I win roughly 1/2 the fights with button mashing. Sure, a rigurous save/load will make you get through the game this way, but versus the "bosses" I assume you'll be pretty much screwed.

I prefer using only the checkpoints to load from as they add more care and precautions to NOT fail that critical jump or lose early fight versus a reborn.

Anyway, with strategical fighting the fights takes a little longer, but I win about 90% of the times.

These number may of course vary depending on your skill level and if you use the recently discovered grapple moves but I think yu get the picture.

You'll most likely win more often when you master saber fighting.

|GG|Carl
09-15-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by geddiesburg
The longest fight I've had is about 30-50 seconds on the hardest setting in both games. I want to be challenged. These fights should last minutes.
Spawn some"kyles"(write "npc spawn kyle" in the console)! That's what I call challange! He's even hard to kill with godmode!

BloodRiot
09-15-2003, 03:27 PM
Personally I like diversity... Some fights can last 5 secs while other last 5 minutes.

One thing I do hate and I mean HATE... is mechanic gameplay... every trick has a counter and diferent characters have difrerent weak spot...so to one tipe of character you spam that mve that breaks his defense... you stay clear of that same trick and he'll be sure to block everything you throw at him.

The old arcade fighting games syndrome (Street fighter for instance)

The best example of a good movie like duel is Bushido Blade 2.

I think the reborn and now the cultists are pretty good cuz they provide some challenge.
From what i've seen of my Kyle Boss tryouts is that he's tough enough to provide a good challenge without huge ammounts of health that make the duel last the wrong way.

Basically:
Long Exciting duels = Good
Long Boring duels = Bad

Back to Bushido Blade example.. you didn't have the same defense as JO/JA... still saber was not defending... you' parry attacks by attacking back...swords would clash. Then it's attack counter, counter counter counter until someone makes a mistake that costs it's life.

The AI opponent difficulty being it's relexes possibly set by random response values to an attack. the higher the enemy level... the higher the reflex values averages.

Plus the real arena for this system would be MP Human vs Human and not SP.

If I could code.. this would be what i'd do.
Cheers.

AxVegetA
09-15-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by |GlobensGeng|
Spawn some"kyles"(write "npc spawn kyle" in the console)! That's what I call challange! He's even hard to kill with godmode!

That makes no sense at all. How can you call it a challenge if you have god mode on, and why would it be harder than without god?
And if you mean THEY have god mode on, well they are invincible.

The regular kyle is easy, just use absorb (he is a force whore).
But kyle_boss is more dificult because he keeps pulling my saber away (i want to figure how to do that).

And the diference between MP and SP, is not that people abuse of one single move like the dfa, its because seriously the gameplay is diferent, remember JO SP and MP, the pull pushs are more efective, the backslash are in some way faster, the rolls too, a lot of things.
Ohh and the jump on top of somebody doesnt takes them down.

Raspster
09-16-2003, 03:13 AM
Um, Kidso, P4 3.2 HT 800MHZ Geforce FX 5900 ULTRA. Um, GFX, not a problem... As for my opion.. I did play the demo alittle more.. I think that mabe due to the maps design that in another more open area map I can give a better option of the saber battles... I play most of my SP saber duels in the ladder mods and in JO they give great battles.

El Chupacabra
09-16-2003, 04:01 AM
The AI is fun to mess with. I usually drag a whole bunch of reborn into one room and duel with 3,4,5 or how many I can. One on One it's far to easy... so at least this way the challenge is a little better. Even so, using the duck attack method with the staff and 2 sabers is way to powerful. You can decimate AI easily with this move...

But really I could care less about AI. Multiplay is where this game excels. Nothing is more fun than beating other people with a lightsaber. Especially when "skill" is involved.

AxVegetA
09-16-2003, 07:50 AM
ROFL ROFL ROFL

"EL CHUPACABRA"

ROFL ROFL ROFL

(i used that name in JO MP, simply hilarius)