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View Full Version : JKII model to JA model...


Hellfire Jedi
09-16-2003, 08:30 PM
How would one do this, I've yet to recieve the game, but would like to know in advance. Just so I can use Infinity Blade's DF Kyle. ;D

Well, would it just be as easy as to put the PK3 in the new base? Or use a tool that was released by raven?

Wudan
09-16-2003, 10:08 PM
Raven says that it will work, so I'd assume that the PK3 should be enough.

CortoCG
09-17-2003, 06:07 PM
I think IB will need to recompile his model using JA's _humanoid.gla file, already available in the demo.

Psyk0Sith
09-17-2003, 11:26 PM
I totally agree with Corto, makes sense if you think about it.

Hellfire Jedi
09-17-2003, 11:28 PM
I'm sincerely hoping that isn't the case. I thought it would be easy..or so they said.

Well from here, thank you sirs for the replys.

Cosmos Jack
09-18-2003, 07:28 AM
For JKII I made myself a large PK3 file with all the models I found that I liked. So my base folder wouldn't be cluttered with PK3 files. I put it in the base folder for JKIII and wola they all work as well as the Large PK3 file I made of Maps from JKII. They work as well.

The only Problems is with some of the taunts for some of the models and some of the textures are missing from some of the maps. Other than that they work fine.

I was playing with the Darth Maul model, QuiGon, and Obi Wan in the FFA Nabo Hanger a few minutes ago. :) They all use the appropriate saber colors as well.

Its hard to get the Saber hilts to work however. They have to be named some how. Like I can't get Darth MUals saber in as a Staff Saber just a single bladed and its called Katarns saber lol.

I don't see why you people think is so hard. It's the same program same everything just a little more polish and not much.

Not that I don't like it, but it seems they just took all the MODs that were made and made it into a game. lol They stole everyone else's ideas. That's why they never released the source code it's most likely the same. Though Seage is a attempt at "ProMod 2" and not a very good one. they would have done better to use that code. lol

Hope I answered the right question?:confused:

lkraan
09-18-2003, 10:39 AM
I hope not that you need to recompile the models with JA's _humanoid.gla file.

For some reason that doesn't make sense to me because I thought that you just "point" your model to the _humanoid.gla file. But then again I don't know the ins and outs of the animation system.

CortoCG
09-18-2003, 02:20 PM
nice news Cosmos, that's what all the ppl with JA should do b4 posting something, try by themselves.

On the other hand what I said makes perfectly sense, that doesn't mean it's necessary or the only way, it just makes sense.

The skeleton in JA is similar to JO's, the only ppl who will have troubles using their models in JA are those who used bones from the JO's skelly which are not in JA's skeleton. I checked the _humanoid.gla of JA from the demo, and it has less bones.

But explaining this is kinda a waste of time, cuz nobody really cares I think.

Cosmos Jack
09-18-2003, 05:50 PM
Your are right it does make sence, but I think sence the games are so much alike some of the things are backward compatable if you know what I mean. A few things I have found such as maps, taunts, and stuff are going to have to be updated a little for the missing textures.

Like I said though for the most part everything works. I trying the JKII stuff as soon as I installed JKIII I just had to know you know lol. JKIII is going to make alot of the mods that we had with JKII alot easyer to do sence alot of the stuff was already added like jet packs and stuff. ProMod 3 if done could make things alot better.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
09-20-2003, 03:43 AM
We purposely put in code to recognize JK2 character models and convert them on-the-fly (at load time) to our new skeleton. So they will just work. We did this because we know that new player models are one of the most enjoyed, popular and sought-after mods.

As for collecting a bunch of mods and releasing that as a game, Cosmos, I hate to tell you that just doesn't happen. No offense or anything, but developers don't usually play mods. In fact, I doubt anyone on JK2 or JA played or looked at any of the code mods. Not because we don't care, but because we know what kind of game we want to make and we're just too busy making the game ourselves. I'm not dissing modders at all, I started out as a modder. Mods are extremely important to a game's extended life, but mods are for the players, not the developers, really... :)

Cosmos Jack
09-20-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
We purposely put in code to recognize JK2 character models and convert them on-the-fly (at load time) to our new skeleton. So they will just work. We did this because we know that new player models are one of the most enjoyed, popular and sought-after mods. Actually I have noticed a bug with this. I'm not sure if it was the old maps that did it or the models, but after playing some FFA with old models in solo play. I couldn't get into any online games. My game would crash saying "No Shaders found." This happened after I removed the models and maps as well.
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
As for collecting a bunch of mods and releasing that as a game, Cosmos, I hate to tell you that just doesn't happen. I didn't exactly mean that you did. I more meant that you can fined a aspect of pretty much every mod in JKIII from duel sabers to jet packs... I like how the jet packs thrust actually comes out of the pack, but it's so nurfed you can barely move. Of course I have my own ideas on the way the game should be and a lot of people do. I just have my own opinions.

Zod
09-21-2003, 01:03 AM
Do you guys think you might be able to help me with this problem?
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112046

ninja
09-23-2003, 02:34 AM
theres one thing though, the models do work. but some of the models voices dont work. of course the models voices work in jk2 but most of the models i've transfered dont have the voices they came with.

Londo Mollari
09-25-2003, 12:30 AM
I've tried different ways to get the JKII models in I have a ext_data folder with the npcs.npc in it, and all the models in the models folder named by the old convention (ie jediyoda or rebornvader). Ive tried making all this a pk3 and putting it in the base folder of JA and I've tried to load it as a mod, but I can't spawn any of the models. Any Ideas? thanks

[FotF]Maddog
10-10-2003, 12:27 AM
I have a question, is there anyway to fix the left hand on models like Dash Rendar? because during dual saber when you taunt or do the special the left saber stays in the hand and doesnt roatate.
Any help would be appreciated, sorry if this has been answered I couldnt find anything.
:mad: Dog

CortoCG
10-10-2003, 03:01 AM
The left hand problem is solved by weighting the 'bolt_l_hand" tag to the "l_hang_bone" bone which was not used in JO. After that you'll have to recompile the model using JA's _humanoid.gla and pray that you haven't used a bone that is not included in that .gla file (ie, the r_tarsal or l_tarsal bones).

[FotF]Maddog
10-10-2003, 05:53 PM
Thanks for a quick reply but I have no clue on how to do that or what program I would need. Any more detailed info would be great!
:mad: Dog

Psyk0Sith
10-10-2003, 09:47 PM
You need 3D Studio Max 4.x/5 and the original model in .max format (before its compiled)...i doubt you have that, unless you are the author of the Dash Rendar model ;).

You could also import it and re-weight the whole thing.

[FotF]Maddog
10-10-2003, 10:11 PM
I have acess to 3DS max R3, so it looks like i am S.O.L.
thanks guys I appreciate the answers.
:mad: Dog

Infinity Blade
10-11-2003, 12:20 AM
Well, could someone confirm for me that the model won't work "plug n play" with JA?

The only bones that they took out that I've used were the tarsals and the other finger bones, so reworking it to fit the JA skeleton won't be that hard. I've also made an altered skeleton for 3ds that should work great for my future models...

My main problem is that I don't really want to have two versions of each model , one compatible for each game. To be honest, the only snag I could see is the lhand tag and lhang bone... but you think it'd be able to convert the tag's weighting.

I guess my only question is: Will JA convert a model that has the right bones (sans lhang), but compiled for JO.... and what problems, if any, come up from doing so (i.e. lhand saber alignment) ?

If the only way of getting it to work properly is doing a model for each game, then I suppose that's fine.... would seem like an awful waste if it was though.

CortoCG
10-11-2003, 06:26 AM
Just weight the bolt_lhand to the l_hang_bone. That trick should do. If not, well, some of us are sc00ed.

Infinity Blade
10-11-2003, 06:49 AM
But there is no lhang bone in Jedi Outcast...

-

Edit: Well, I think the left handed weapons might work if it's weighted to the lhand bone... I'm not sure how it'd look, though.

Someone could try loading an old Raven JO model into JA and see how the Dual Sabers look..... That's mostly what I'd like to know. Then we could see basically how it reacts to an older JO model that is weighted correctly...

If it still doesn't work because of the toes/hands, someone could try and get a model using the new bone structure with the lhand tag on the lhand bone... I'd try myself, but I don't have JA at the moment to test it.

CortoCG
10-11-2003, 07:12 AM
I tried with a model of mine and it doesn't work correct.
And yes, there's a l_hang bone in the original JO skeleton provided with the stormie's .xsi file. The fact is that it is not used in JO.

Infinity Blade
10-11-2003, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by CortoCG
And yes, there's a l_hang bone in the original JO skeleton provided with the stormie's .xsi file. The fact is that it is not used in JO.
No, there is no lhang bone... it's lhand_tag_bone. it's a D, not a G...

In JA, they renamed it to match the rhang bone... Actually, I don't think there is a way possible to make it compatible with the lhang bone and be in line with JO. The only way I see possible is for Raven to patch their converter so it reweights the tag to that bone.... then it'd be fine.

I guess I'll wait till I can try my models out in-game to see if I'll make both JA/JO versions, or just a JO one. It really doesn't matter too much, as making an alternate version could be as simple as reweighting one tag.

If Raven could redo the tag weighting, you'd probably be able to make a single model for both games. If not... will just have to start labeling models for JA or JO if need be, or live without the added bonus of a correctly weighted lhand tag.

Edit: I just had an idea.. will run it by Corto, maybe some others. We might be able to add an additional bone to JO somehow (lhang)... I'm not that knowledgable in that area at the moment, so I'll have to check with others to see if it's feasible.

Psyk0Sith
10-11-2003, 05:17 PM
It actually pretty simple, i renamed the lhand_bone to l_hang bone and it works fine.

You could also copy/mirror the right_hang bone over to the left and re-link it to the left hand.

I used the first method and the taunts are working fine.

Infinity Blade
10-11-2003, 05:57 PM
I already knew that.. that's not my problem.

My problem is getting a model for both JO and JA that will work like they're supposed to. JO won't work with the lhang bone in it's current state, and JA won't animate correctly without it.

I just was hoping to avoid 2 versions of each model. It's extra work for something that won't be really that different, and I was looking for a way so people didn't have to flood the filesites for two of each model... and possibly avoid some confusion on the user's part.

But with half of the people not going to JA right away (if at all), there could still be a good deal of demand for JO version models, for at least a while.

If Raven could possibly incorporate that feature of converting the tag's weights, would just make it easier....

Like I said... if not, then two versions or incorrect taunts are fine.

El Sitherino
10-11-2003, 07:04 PM
could one of you perhaps do some of this stuff for us poor unfortunates that have no clue what the hell is being said, or how to do it?

just curious of course ;)

Infinity Blade
10-13-2003, 12:39 AM
Well, essentially it boils down to this. With the differences between the ways JO and JA work, there are a couple problems with animating.

JA can use JO models, but Raven's model conversion doesn't fix the left hand for it to animate correctly (like taunting with Dual Sabers).

And we were just discussing possible solutions or methods to fix it. My thoughts were on making a model that works normally for both, but it seems unlikely at the moment. The easiest fixes are ignoring it, or making a JA version for the model. It's nothing really that important, as I imagine the gameplay is mostly intact for the saber swings using a JO model.

I don't have JA at this time, so I couldn't tell you 100% how much it affects it.... but I would imagine that it's more of an asthetic problem than gameplay.

Chairwalker
10-13-2003, 02:36 AM
The taunt isnt that bad, it just looks silly...

The biggest problem with the 'sticky left saber' is that when someone does the double saber special
(ducking and using the force to let both sabers fly in circles around you)
only one saber will fly, and the other will stay in your hand.

I'd say, if you're releasing a model,
use the JO skeleton and include an additional pk3 file for the JA version
that just replaces the GLM with a JA compliant one.

But ofcourse the problem would still exist when using previously made JO models....
So i guess that people will have to deal with the bug when using JO models.

I dont know how Raven should fix it anyway.
Renaming the tag wouldnt do much, since all JO models just have the left hand tag fixed to the left hand bone.
And i dont think they can just alter the animations so that the l_hand_bone will fly around along with the tag_bone.
But thats the only sollution i can think of (simple minded as i am)

Infinity Blade
10-13-2003, 01:38 PM
Well, it's not about renaming.. it's about reweighting.

A model part is "adhered" to a bone by weighting... the tag for the left hand is weighted to the left hand. In JA, they have a new bone that is meant specifically for that tag.

While converting the model, I'm guessing the weights of the bones no longer used are changed to the next nearest bone. The toes are no longer there, so they probably just convert those weights to the foot bone.

If they can single out the tag and change it's weights, it'd solve the problem right there, and no need for an extra model.

If not, and you want it to look correctly, you'll need to make a JA version. While including both into one zipfile would work fine, my only concerns are either the number of people who won't "get" how it works or who don't want the hassle.

But as I said, it isn't that important. How to release it will be up to each modeller in such a case. I'm just saying it'd be easier if Raven can alter their conversion process.