PDA

View Full Version : GameSpot Review: ONLY 8.4! WTF???


te27ch
09-17-2003, 12:31 AM
If you have been looking around lately, you will see a review out for Jedi Academy at GameSpot, my favorite general gaming site. They have it all: Every game you could ever think of, reviews, screenshots, and a pricey subscription service to get exclusive media (movies, demos, interviews, etc).

The problem is, the review has given JA an EIGHT POINT FOUR! 8.4/10! 84% B!

This makes me mad.

If you look at JO, it received a 9.0 or 9.1 (I can't remember which) and the Editor's Choice award. Now, does that mean JO is a better game? I REALLY HOPE NOT!!! Because then we're in deep bantha poodoo.

Quote time!
------------------------
"There are dozens of Star Wars games on the market, but none captures the excitement of lightsaber combat as well as the Jedi Knight games. Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy is the third game in the series, or, technically, the fourth if you count 1995's Dark Forces, which didn't bear the Jedi Knight name (and didn't let you use lightsabers or Force powers, either). It is not a revolutionary product--as it uses the same Quake III engine and gameplay elements as last year's well-received Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast. It manages to take all the fun parts from its predecessor and greatly expands them to create an engaging, new action game in its own right."
------------------------
NOT A REVOLUTIONARY PRODUCT MY @$$!!! (oops)
------------------------
"In reality, you'll probably find yourself choosing Force grab and Force heal at the start of the game. These two abilities are the most useful, and you can complete the game using just these two advanced powers. Force grab is the incapacitating choke Darth Vader uses in A New Hope. Your level-three grab lets you pick up and throw enemies using your mouse, or you can just hold them steady--which allows you to quickly kill them by throwing your lightsaber at them while they are helplessly suspended in the air. You can also inflict damage to opponents by slamming them into walls and/or slamming them into the ground. You can even drop opponents off of nearby cliffs. While regular foes are dead meat, Force users can break free of your choke. But the split second it takes them to stop your choke is still enough time for you to flick your mouse to the right and drop them off into an abyss. Use heal to repair any damage you've incurred, and then it's time to move on. Unfortunately, this combination makes the game too easy, at times, because there are plenty of ledges in the game--allowing you to keep using this tactic over and over. "
------------------------
Well... then just don't be a friggin grip spammer then... n00b.
------------------------
"Even the AI seems resigned to its fate. Stormtroopers usually just stand there shooting away at you, even though you block every one of their shots. Dark Jedi rush at you, even after watching four of their brethren plummet to a horrible death. Occasionally, you'll see an enemy accidentally commit suicide by falling off a cliff or falling into lava. The game's excitement comes from the massive body count you can accrue and by how viciously you can get rid of the opposition."
------------------------
For God's sake, turn the frappin difficulty up then! The idiot based his conclusions based on an easy game setting! Same with that paragraph about grip and heal! Ha! I bet even the most fanatical heal-spamming won't save you from the advances of 3 times as many baddies!
Oh yes, and there's the "The game's excitement comes from the massive body count you can accrue and by how viciously you can get rid of the opposition." First Person Shooter. Doom. Quake. THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF SUCH GAMES, TO KILL PEOPLE AND HAVE FUN DOING IT!!!
------------------------
"Jedi Academy certainly doesn't flaunt much in the way of bells or whistles. The game uses the Quake III engine, which, by now, is showing signs of age. While it's capable of displaying large outdoor environments, they're rather devoid of detail. The character models just don't compare with those of some other, more-recent action games, and there are clipping issues as well. The lightsabers, however, still look like they should. They reflect off of different surfaces and radiate color into the world, especially on the last mission, when up to 10 Jedi may be fighting at the same time."
------------------------
Devoid of detail? Not if you're a Star Wars Junkie (you know, now that I think of it, this guy's probly a Trekkie!). Not much in the way of bells or whistles. Here's some bells and whistles for you, Trekkie: Dual Sabers, Saberstaff, Swoop Bikes... Not to mention the entire Siege Mode and Power Duel mode...
------------------------
"The audio is fine, but it's forgettable. We've all heard Star Wars music over and over by now, yet that becomes a paradox. We may yearn for something different, yet expect the old music in a Star Wars game. The voice work does a great job in conveying emotion during cutscenes, especially if Jaden succumbs to the dark side. But some in-game voices can be lacking. Enemies continue to taunt you with looping statements like "A Jedi!" or "You are weak." Sometimes, these taunts don't make much sense, especially since your enemies will shout them out after you've just effortlessly slaughtered all their friends."
------------------------
Well, they could do techno remixes of the music, like in Force Commander... :D Well, I won't mind the taunts very much, because of the constant "Do you fear me?" "Where are you going, Jedi" that I've been hearing for the last year and a half. And them taunting you after you've slaughtered anyone else is funny, because it adds an extra punch to their slowly rotating death scene.
------------------------
"Between the multiplayer and different character paths, you'll find plenty of replay value in Jedi Academy. Those who wished Jedi Knight II had picked up the pace earlier on in the game should particularly enjoy it. Jedi Academy is a nonstop action ride that starts out on a high point and manages to remain there for the entire game. Gameplay elements that can be tedious, such as jumping puzzles, are limited, while the use of Force powers is accentuated. The game may not look great, but it will play well on older systems, so it can be enjoyed even by players who are waiting to upgrade their computers for some of the graphically intensive games scheduled for a holiday release. It even caters to those who aren't familiar with the Star Wars universe and just want pure action. In general, Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy is highly recommendable."
------------------------
"The game may not look great, but it will play well on older systems" Hmmm... then how come I've been hearing cries of awe when the framerate manages to get useful? How come I've been hearing of gaming computers that have to have some of the settings turned down? Actually, that paragraph wasn't really that bad...
------------------------
Now, one HUGE thing they left out was MULTIPLAYER! No mention of the levels, just the new modes. No mention of the Kick-Buttness of the new modes. You know what would be funny? If that guy had the illegal Beta! Haha!
------------------------
SO! What do YOU think? Head on over to http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/jediacademy/review.html
------------------------
Oh, and please don't sue/kill/block/ban/etc. me for anything I truly accidentally might have said/done without telling me first...

te27ch

Kurgan
09-17-2003, 01:21 AM
Hilarious assesment of the weaknesses of the review.

But hey, he still gave it a good score. That's the beauty of public forums, getting to express your opinion. ; )

PS: According to Raven sources, Gamespot did get a legal copy, so that they left out Multiplayer was pure laziness on their part...

cheeto101
09-17-2003, 01:36 AM
personally, i think thats what ja should have got, and i dont think its a bad rating considering
A: Its only adding on to JO's gameplay (come on people. theres nothing horribly revolutionary about ja)
and
B: Its using a dated engine that simply cant compete graphics wise with the new big shots like unreal and half life 2.

8.4 is a damn good rating for the game in my opinion.

Taran'atar
09-17-2003, 01:37 AM
This post has to be a joke. No one could really be this stupid.

8.4 is a good grade. I know a lot of people that aren't as forgiving when a sequel to a game they liked looks and plays almost exactly like it's predecessor.

Slyuss
09-17-2003, 02:23 AM
lol, most of us are probably happy that it doesn't use the Unreal2 or Half-Life 2 engines. I'm still usin a GeForce 2 MX 400 and JA and JO run pretty much perfectly (about 30-40) constant FPS. Unless you spawn about 10 chewies and 10 enemies =)) which is quite fun to do! =)

El Chupacabra
09-17-2003, 02:30 AM
8.4 from Gamespot isn't bad...especially considering the game is a sequel with nothing much new besides a few saber stances.

Gamespot usually rates things harder than a site like IGN, thats why I usually respect their opinion more. If you compare Gamespot's 9.0 list to IGN's 9.0 list ... Gamespot gets buried.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
09-17-2003, 02:42 AM
Originally posted by El Chupacabra
8.4 from Gamespot isn't bad...especially considering the game is a sequel with nothing much new besides a few saber stances.

Gamespot usually rates things harder than a site like IGN, thats why I usually respect their opinion more. If you compare Gamespot's 9.0 list to IGN's 9.0 list ... Gamespot gets buried.

Plus vehicles, customizable sabers and player models, 4 new SP force powers, control over force power advancement, non-linear mission choice, dark/light-side choice, new locations, new enemies, technology enhancements, all new multiplayer maps, new acrobatics, the concussion rifle and two new multiplayer modes.

As for reviews, it really depends on the individual reviewer, everyone is different. Different people value different things in games. Some people played JK2 for the MP, others for SP, others played both (unlike a lot of other games coming out at the time, we actually had a full SP and MP game). Plus, if the reviewer is excited about the game, they tend to do a more thorough review and put more effort into really playing the game and getting the most out of it. I'm not saying any of the reviewers are lazy or unprofessional or wrong or anything like that. But I'm sure some reviewers were in a greater state of anticipation for JK2 (which was 4 1/2 years after the last Jedi Knight game) than they were for Jedi Academy (which is only 1 1/2 years after the last Jedi Knight game). It's only natural.

Myself, I know Jedi Academy is a better game than Jedi Outcast, so I'm not worried... :)

Prime
09-17-2003, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
Myself, I know Jedi Academy is a better game than Jedi Outcast, so I'm not worried... :) That much is obvious just from the demo. I can't wait to get my hands on this tomorrow! Thanks to you and your team at Raven for all your hard work!

BrodieCadden
09-17-2003, 05:15 AM
I thought 8.4 was pretty right on, as I've finished the game already. It was great fun and I may finish it again and follow the dark side in the future, but it wasn't as groundbreaking as JO. More of a very large expansion pack, in a good way.

8.4 was what it deserved, a high B. It isn't an instant classic or anything but great fun while it lasts.

WadeV1589
09-17-2003, 12:56 PM
When a sequal is released it has to be compared to its predecessor and comparing JA to JO it looks slightly better and has improvements. It's not a new game however (relatively speaking) so a 9.0 for JO (cause it's a first) and then an 8.4 because the sequal is comparative to the first makes sense. If this game had come out originally, i.e. JO had never existed this would have no doubt got 9.0-9.5.

Those of you who understand ratings will understand this straight away :)

antpocas
09-17-2003, 01:13 PM
Dude. You're like, the biggest fanboy ever.

Tesla
09-17-2003, 01:14 PM
8.4 is a fine score. :)
GameSpot have to review SW games from a non - SW fan point of view, because not everyone playing JA will be a hardcore SW fan. :)

And Kudos to the guys @Raven for making a great game, still have to wait 2 days for it though.
If Raven do the next JK game, use the Unreal engine or the Half - Life 2 one. :)

Kharad Donn
09-17-2003, 01:39 PM
I don't know how games are rated, but as for me, even the JA demo gets a 9.5 score. There is nothing better than running around madly with a lightsaber, the pure hitokiri joy of it never gets old. (for those of you who aren't fluent in japanese, hitokiri means "cutting people up". And no i'm not japanese. My father is fluent in it.) Aside from running and slicing, every hardcore SW fan loves to get a chance to use the force. That's the best part.

I know there are several games that have non-linear missions, but this is revolutional for Jedi Knight games. Besides, I'm not aware of any games that allow for such expanded SP customization. I wouldn't mind seeing more clothing/skin tone options, but all in all i would say what lucasarts/raven has done is astounding, especially the effort that went into the saber acrobatics.

One thing I would like to see is a greater expansion on species/race choices. (are you listening lucasarts/raven?) Choices like Bith, Wookie, Ithorian, Shistavanean, Bothan, Moncalamari, and Quarren would be a good start;) . Maybe you could make a game where we fight the Yuuzhan Vong. That would be sweet. And for once start us out with our force powers and lightsabers at maximum.

In case you're wondering why I didn't rate the game 10.0, the answer is this- Until a game can portray characters that are so graphically enhanced that they look and move like real people, 9.5 is the max rating I will give. Make a game like I described above, and i'll give it a 10.0

BongoBob
09-17-2003, 02:42 PM
Anyone know how to set up a paypal account, so people will give me money? lol.
Now that the features haveall been listed, I really want this game now.

Master William
09-17-2003, 02:45 PM
Well, maybe they are right. Just because other people are not
all excited Star Wars fans who browse the LucasForums 24/7.

They are not always right tough, because this could probably have been a large expansion, seeing as it is the same fricken engine.

Agen
09-17-2003, 02:51 PM
Plus vehicles, customizable sabers and player models, 4 new SP force powers, control over force power advancement, non-linear mission choice, dark/light-side choice, new locations, new enemies, technology enhancements, all new multiplayer maps, new acrobatics, the concussion rifle and two new multiplayer modes.
Heh, the reviewer was obviously pretty anti star wars or something similar like that, from what i can see, there's absolutely no contest between JK2 and JA. Even from the demo you could tell the superiority :) The only thing that seems to make the game "feel" similar is the controls and you really wouldn't notice if you didn't play jk2 alot :) IMO that review was a bad tackle and should be pretty much ignored.
Oh and can anyone confirm a cheat to put on dismemberment? It just seems to make the game more satisfying :)

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
09-17-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Master William
Well, maybe they are right. Just because other people are not
all excited Star Wars fans who browse the LucasForums 24/7.

They are not always right tough, because this could probably have been a large expansion, seeing as it is the same fricken engine.

It's interesting that we've gotten to the point that game technology is advancing so quickly that people think what makes a game a sequel is using a new engine. But how many sequels have actually come out using an entirely new engine? Unreal 2? Jedi Knight 2? Both had about 4 year waits (and we're still waiting for DNF and HL2).

How many sequels have there been using the same engine (though enhanced) as the last game? Doom 2? Tomb Raider 2? Warcraft II? NOLF2? Elite Force II? GTA: Vice City? Delta Force 2? Some of the Rainbow Six games, etc? (I'm getting out of my area of expertise, here, but, you get my point). If true sequels *must* use an entirely new engine, people are going to have to be willing to wait 4-5 years for sequels.

EDIT: forgot 2 anticipated, upcoming "sequels" to MOH:AA - "Call of Duty" and the new MOH game in the Pacific (forget the title). Neither of them use a new engine.

ASk
09-17-2003, 02:56 PM
The game deserves the grade. I personally would grade it at about 80 myself. It is on a level of an expansion pack, but not on a level of a full-blown new game. Gameplay had stayed mostly the same, and the new features were either already done by the mod community or purely gimmicks (ragdoll)

Agen
09-17-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by ASk
It is on a level of an expansion pack, but not on a level of a full-blown new game.
I'm pretty sure LA/LEC or whatever they're called now, haven't actually given it full sequel status but haven't called it an expansion pack either - it's a smart market move, expansion packs aren't as popular as sequels, it's obvious. Even though it's different, the controls and visuals seem similar to JO whcih kind of makes it a familiar tang so they haven't went out with JK3:JA either (unless it's agaisnt my knowledge) or anything but of course, it's LEC who do the ordering around, Raven can't just do what they want to make a better or more advanced game without permission. I'm sure Khan can back me up on that :)

ganjalf
09-17-2003, 03:27 PM
i got a good point for u......... would u still buy it if it had a rating of 2.5 cos i know i would lmao :atat: :slsaber:

te27ch
09-17-2003, 06:48 PM
Hmmm... I thought this post wouldnt work. I guess it did! Yay!

ANYWAY

Amazon.com STILL hasn't even SHIPPED my order... that burns.

But I'm sure that my review will be more than A FRIGGIN 8.4!!!

They needed to have the same guy who reviewed JO (he liked it a lot and gave it a 9 something) review JA! 9+! I'm sure of it!

:explode:

w00t!

Nerdman5
09-17-2003, 10:08 PM
I certainly feel that the game is underrated. Gamespot obviously thought that n00b level was a good way to rate a game. Also, the point of JA was not to completly go off on something new, but it was made in the realization that they had struck gold in JO and that there was a mine down there. :) Not all the guns are original, but they brought back the concussion rifle!!! That mere fact should have put the game at a 8.9 as it was! Gamespot was wrong when they said it was not original. The point of being a jedi is to use the lightsaber. In JK you were better off with a gun (I wont say wich cuz I know a lot of people have individual favorites). But here, they have taken saberfighting to a whole new level. Saberfighting is no longer jumping and swinging madly (that tactic taken to the extreme never works anyway, but that was the easiest thing to do). With the sabers reworked and all, that is something that a person who would buy a game like that wants. A person who doesn't like SW is not going ever appreaciate (I dont know if thats spelled right te27ch will probably fix me on that one) the game to it's full potential. And also as te27ch mentioned, they didn't even mention multi-player! I might add that the fact that the storyline no longer centers around Kyle and that they chose the Acadamy centanly means that the game was not just a remake of JO. Thats all I have to say!

StaffMaster
09-17-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
It's interesting that we've gotten to the point that game technology is advancing so quickly that people think what makes a game a sequel is using a new engine. But how many sequels have actually come out using an entirely new engine? Unreal 2? Jedi Knight 2? Both had about 4 year waits (and we're still waiting for DNF and HL2).

How many sequels have there been using the same engine (though enhanced) as the last game? Doom 2? Tomb Raider 2? Warcraft II? NOLF2? Elite Force II? GTA: Vice City? Delta Force 2? Some of the Rainbow Six games, etc? (I'm getting out of my area of expertise, here, but, you get my point). If true sequels *must* use an entirely new engine, people are going to have to be willing to wait 4-5 years for sequels.

EDIT: forgot 2 anticipated, upcoming "sequels" to MOH:AA - "Call of Duty" and the new MOH game in the Pacific (forget the title). Neither of them use a new engine.


Hi Chang great work on the game I love it.

But to be fair you have to admit that the quake engine is a little dated.
(Even though I think that it still competes with the 2nd generation graphics engines being touted about)

But anyway seeing the ID Software is always pushing the grahics envelope will you guys implement the DOOM 3 engine once they license it out?

To have a saber battle with that kind of complex shading...........les jus say it makes me have pleasurable sensations.:D

g//plaZma
09-17-2003, 10:18 PM
Reviews are opinions. Giving JA an 8.4 (which is not a bad score at all) does not mean the game is bad.

te27ch
09-17-2003, 10:30 PM
Nerdman...

Just becuase you're my friend at school doesn't mean I can't frag you in the forums...

te27ch0 is on the zone, fool.

Plus he hasn't even played JA, his comp doesnt meet the reqs.. blah blah blah...

Oh crap i better shut up or a mod will ban me...
-------------------
I just saw a new review on the forums... some guy gettin angry at the sabers in multiplayer just because a few little tiny things... are u guys satisfied wit multi (if u got the game now and are actually doing this instead of playing the game WHICH YOU SHOULD GET BACK TO RIGHT NOW!!!)

g//plaZma
09-17-2003, 10:59 PM
The mp isn't all that impressive at all. I'm glad gamespot didn't rate the mp. It would have gotten like a 4.

So far it seems the best tactic in mp is to hold down primary fire with the saber and run at your enemy, healing occasionally when you're low on health because katas and specials sure as hell won't hit and with the kicking and kick combos taken out of the game, I don't think I'll enjoy FF dueling anymore.

traj
09-17-2003, 11:17 PM
ChangaKhan:

Well, I havent gotten to play it yet because im still at work. But seeing as how someone from Raven is responding to this thread, I wondered if he could comment on something. Keep in mind I have not played it yet.

Every single competitive S/O CTF player and S/O FF duelist/tffa player that i've talked to about this game say that it is not worth buying. And we're not talking 5-10 guys. We're talking the bulk of the community. Why do you think that they feel Raven has turned their beloved game into a NF saber flailing RPG noobathon?

I'll try to get some of them here to discuss this more, but from what I understand:

a) kicks are useless/****ed
b) grip is ****ed
c) pull kick is ****ed
d) red stance dfa is now 4 hits to kill
e) katas dont hit / only for looks
f) throw pull kick is ****ed
g) saber damage scale is off

...maybe FF S/O players don't make up the bulk of the community, but if what these guys say is true I'm going to have a hard time convincing myself to buy this game tomorrow.

Anyways, I'm really looking forward to the game, and I hope that the FF aspects aren't as bad as these guys think. I think sometimes there is an adjustment period, but we've talked about that and they say that that's not the case.

So, any comments you have regarding this would be appreciated.

Thanks

lllKyNeSlll
09-17-2003, 11:57 PM
Seems to me so far JO is a much better game sabering wise. GUnning the jk3 is much better due to better maps and ammo placement.

jk3 seems to be a pandora's box, many of the jk2 player's worst fears came out (lack of a true kick, no grip hide) however there is a great hope that it can become a great game.

StaffMaster
09-18-2003, 01:47 AM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well I dont know what you mean about the force issues.

BUT I can tell you firsthand that anybody that cant use a kata effectively is either a noob or I dont know what.

I have great success with my saberstaff kata.

My fighting style went from random clumsy movements in outcast to a flowing powerful fighting style in academy.

Besides it kind of strikes me as that "noveau" BS that clans like to spew.
"were true duelers cus we choos to do it n outcast"

more moves,better control,extra characters,vehicles,fighting styles....etc

and u think outcast is better.

wutever

Rad Blackrose
09-18-2003, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by StaffMaster
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well I dont know what you mean about the force issues.

BUT I can tell you firsthand that anybody that cant use a kata effectively is either a noob or I dont know what.

I have great success with my saberstaff kata.

My fighting style went from random clumsy movements in outcast to a flowing powerful fighting style in academy.

Besides it kind of strikes me as that "noveau" BS that clans like to spew.
"were true duelers cus we choos to do it n outcast"

more moves,better control,extra characters,vehicles,fighting styles....etc

and u think outcast is better.

wutever

Its one thing to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

The movement of JA MP is no more fluent than in JKII MP.

Kata is a waste of force. I just have to stand back and throw my saber at you while you sit there like a retard without the daily medication swinging at absolutely nothing with the pretty graphics. Oooh, blade trails. Who gives a damn?

Also, considering the fact that the dual-bladed lightsaber's kata is the 2nd most worthless in the entire game (dual lightsabers is taking the cake right now), I get a feeling you're just another Blademaster_109 clone.

Guardian Omega
09-18-2003, 02:31 AM
I haven't gotten the game yet, (picked HL2), but if the katas are anything like JKA demo, the only one I found ANY where useful was the light kata since it didn't really restrict movement.

g//plaZma
09-18-2003, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by StaffMaster
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well I dont know what you mean about the force issues.

BUT I can tell you firsthand that anybody that cant use a kata effectively is either a noob or I dont know what.

I have great success with my saberstaff kata.

My fighting style went from random clumsy movements in outcast to a flowing powerful fighting style in academy.

Besides it kind of strikes me as that "noveau" BS that clans like to spew.
"were true duelers cus we choos to do it n outcast"

more moves,better control,extra characters,vehicles,fighting styles....etc

and u think outcast is better.

wutever

Your fighting style was clumsy in outcast most likely because you sucked. JA has that way of making it look cool and "movie-like" when you flail your saber around like a retard. JO didn't.

the weiner dog!
09-18-2003, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
Your fighting style was clumsy in outcast most likely because you sucked. JA has that way of making it look cool and "movie-like" when you flail your saber around like a retard. JO didn't.

Crow_Nest
09-18-2003, 06:05 AM
Same here, how can JA get 8.4?!?!

THATS IMPOSSIBLE!:mad:

JK2 GOT HIGHER THAN 8.4!!!

StaffMaster
09-18-2003, 10:40 AM
Sucked?

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


IS that the best you can come up with?

This is not about bragging but I hardly ever lost a duel in MP.
So much to the point that you spoiled clan brats would even kick me off the server.
For schooling their clan.

And if your used to dealing with NOOBS that kata whore you to death.

You only prove my point.

I make the kata jus one more weapon in arsenal of moves.

So i doubt you would have time to throw ur saber while I "flail around like an idiot".

IT looks like I hit close to home.

And you definitely have more moves and fighting stances than in JO.

So I say aggain WUTEVER.


Great work Raven. I think you have an exelent game right out of the box.
patches will only make it more polished.

SuperNub
09-18-2003, 11:23 AM
But hey, he still gave it a good score. That's the beauty of public forums, getting to express your opinion. ; )

Is that a joke? ..every topic I've seen with legitimate points being openly submitted have been closed simply because they're "bashing" this game. Yeah, bashing a game they have every right to due to the fact they paid money for it and should be able to voice their opinion in any manner they see fit. But oh no, can't offend the people who worked so hard on this JO 1.05.

This is not about bragging but I hardly ever lost a duel in MP.

I highly doubt you played anywhere other then those admin mod nub clans, who AM sit more then FFA or fight for that matter. Visiting a server such as *BS* or <ap> and beating them in NF duels is hardly even comparable to coming to a place back in the day like [div3rse.temple] or any of the like.

I make the kata jus one more weapon in arsenal of moves.

How did that prove anything other then what he implemented in the first place? ..if your arsenal consists of holding down attack, and wasting force on random "pretty" saber moves then you must be more pathetic then you sound. How COULDN'T he be saber throwing you repeatedly while you're using kata? ...do you have magical forces that make yourself invulnerable during that worthless, stand still attack?

You remind me of the flock of NFing sheep that hopped into the JO community during the midst of 1.04, basing your offense around red dfas and random lunges. While you gained confidence playing at noob clan servers, only being blind to true competition in the form of FF dueling, base settings.

To put it bluntly, this game is a dumbed down version of JO for people who couldn't grasp the techniques of exploiting your opponent and using force to it's full potential. Now its just for the random 13 year old whos parents bought them a comp to gawk at the nice graphics and easy gameplay.

Why was grip kicking or kicking period for that matter taken out? ...was it just too hard for most people to contend with and learn to defend? ..there were mods that disabled kicking just fine. It was a well used and needed component for full on competition CTF and FF fighting. Why not have just added an option in the server setup to disable kicks the same way guns were enabled/disabled? ..its all a matter of a simple command line.

And not to forget, completely stiff movements and no feeling of momentum. Worthless saber moves an experienced CTF capper whos speed absorbing across a map can look back and laugh at while a noob hits katas and twirling moves, since offensive forces are useless as backstab is in 1.04 JO.

I think gamespot were way too nice with their review. If you ask me, JA deserves the name of JO Expansion: Attack of the noob sheep and gets a 2.0, only for its improved graphics.

Jaden007
09-18-2003, 12:06 PM
Well it did get rated Great but i think it shoulda got a higher score.

They said problems with AI and things but i still like it .....................Getting today UPS:D cant wait!

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
09-18-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by traj
ChangKhan:

Well, I havent gotten to play it yet because im still at work. But seeing as how someone from Raven is responding to this thread, I wondered if he could comment on something. Keep in mind I have not played it yet....<snip>


I'd judge the game for yourself, if I were you.

That being said, any time you change anything, you're going to piss off people who are used to something a specific way. If they're not willing to try something new, then I guess that's their prerogative. If we didn't try to improve the game, there would have been no point in making a new game. Whatever people think, we don't try to make a game suck and release it. We make the games the way we think are fun. If people like them (as they usually seem to do), great. If not, that's life!

Remember: You can't please all of the people all of the time. :)

aXoe
09-18-2003, 12:50 PM
Keep in mind its just a game :D looks cool but gamespot was right in their own way, i mean come on all the features of the game have already been made available through mod and how long do you think this game will last on the market. Im glad you like and so do i but a lot of people will probably be playing HL2 and many other games in the years to come (amazing games btw) and people still enjoy playing star craft which is outdated. As long as people still play it a stupid rating doesnt matter. Remember most people still havent played the original game itself and a lot of people cant give their opinions

Rad Blackrose
09-18-2003, 02:14 PM
So I say aggain WUTEVER.

Fo shizzle mah nizzle? Is it off the heezy? Fo sheezie? Word to your mutha, dawg!

http://www.ascendancy.net/tribalwar/grammar.jpg

This is not about bragging but I hardly ever lost a duel in MP.
So much to the point that you spoiled clan brats would even kick me off the server.
For schooling their clan.

I highly doubt that you have played on g// FFA, shockwave, fk, diverse, etc. With the way you are presenting yourself here, you were more likely kicked off for being an inane ass. I doubt you could touch the top players of FF/SO. And don't backpedal onto the "but I'm NF/SO" excuse, that card is played more then Jesse Jackson's Race Card.

I make the kata jus one more weapon in arsenal of moves.

Need I not make the retard with lack of medication statement again?

Considering the fact that you CANNOT cease a directional movement in a kata (katas have defined intervals of movement), I can still stand back and just toss my saber at you repeatedly while you pull off a pathetic rendition of the Star Wars kid.

And you definitely have more moves and fighting stances than in JO.

Which, might I add, is a pretty nice mask to disguising flaws in gameplay mechanics.

"ooh, he just flipped away from me while doing the splits!"

Seriously, get over yourself. No wonder why games are **** these days, all they got to do is create eye candy, overhype their product, and sell it to the people who don't do their homework.

EDIT: Quote tags... yay!

Mordred
09-18-2003, 02:29 PM
Well to be honest from the other reviews i have seen 8.4 is high and thats not a bad score anyway

Kamikaze
09-18-2003, 04:01 PM
Agreed. Gaming sites are generally more stingy with their ratings in the past few years, and an 8.4 is very respectable. I think it's a fine score for a supposed "sequel" that really didn't bring more new stuff than an expansion would have at $20 cheaper. If it was an expansion, then it would warrant a higher score, because expansions aren't expected to offer all that much new stuff. Think about it, MOTS had more new features over JK than JK:A has over JO, and it cost nearly half as much.

traj
09-18-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
I'd judge the game for yourself, if I were you.

That being said, any time you change anything, you're going to piss off people who are used to something a specific way. If they're not willing to try something new, then I guess that's their prerogative. If we didn't try to improve the game, there would have been no point in making a new game. Whatever people think, we don't try to make a game suck and release it. We make the games the way we think are fun. If people like them (as they usually seem to do), great. If not, that's life!

Remember: You can't please all of the people all of the time. :)

I agree.

Did you guys test the FF/SO CTF? If so, did you think it was fun? Did you play FF/SO CTF in JO? Any feedback or comments here would be appreciated.

Doug Thompson
09-18-2003, 06:16 PM
IMO, game review sites are heavily biased toward games with really great graphics. Gamespot's not as bad as others, but the bias is still there.

If you hold my point of view, it's downright amazing that a game with a graphics engine this old got an 8.4.

========

As others have mentioned, JA is not exactly an out-of-the-blue original. I'd argue that it's quite a refinement over the previous installment, and a great game.

It's a very good sequel, but a sequel nonetheless. Again, that makes the fact that is scored as high as this somewhat amazing.

kru
09-18-2003, 06:20 PM
This thread smells bad of 'fanboy'. The game itself is fine - 8.4 is a fine score.

Lets face it people, the innovation isnt there. The game itself plays nicely, but has that Jedi Outcast Expansion feel about it.

Im not ragging on the game here, just the fact that it lacks innovation, rendering 8.4 a perfect score for it.

Remij
09-18-2003, 11:19 PM
ChangaKhan:

I gotta say that I'm dissapointed with the multiplayer aspect of Jedi Academy. In JO, I really only played the multiplayer game, not too much of the single player game, many of my friends are the same way, the multiplayer in JO is plainly the best online videogaming experience I have ever had. But sometimes I feel like I've only gotten half of a game with JO, the single player game is still great dont get me wrong, its just with such an incredible experience playing with other people, I never got into the Single player mode.

Now, this brings me to my point with JA, I myself and many others, feel that the changes made to the multiplayer game, will reduce the game to a hack and slash melee that lowers the quality of the online experience. Kicks being removed is almost unacceptable for me because of the style in which I play. The tempo of the game has slowed considerably and is generally a bore.

I really wanted to like this game, and I still do, the customization is incredible(kudos for that) and everything is really intuitive, but it is falling short of my own, and many of my friends expectations!
with sooo many other great games coming out this year, with the way JA is right now, I honestly doubt it will be getting much of my attention, especially since JO mp is still greater than JA mp.

thanks for ur time and efforts

disgruntled jedi, Remij

=AX=Katalyst
09-19-2003, 01:20 AM
Well i agree with traj, the SO FF/CTF has gone to the dogs. I for 1 will not play if that stays. All the gay fancy saber moves make me mad. JK2 FF SO CTF was the most competitive and most played by hardcore gamers. Its still quite large today. I think raven madea mistake creating the game for dueling. who cares what some site rates the game? make ur own decision.

majin_buu.pt
09-19-2003, 02:03 AM
ok here's what i think about jk:ja. sp is much easier than jk2 sp.. but it's more cool. now mp. i hate mp. u just need 2 put single saber blue stance and press attack and foward and u kill a lot of people.. i never saw that on jk2. the defense of lightsaber just sucks, it doesn't protect u frow anything. and this is what i am going 2 say: Portuguese community probably will stay on jk2 since we play ctf ff/so mostly and ctf jk:ja sucks. US ctf ff/so community won't play this by the same reasons. so if the game stays like this the ctf ff/so community won't play it. and just 1 thing us and portuguese community got the best jk2 ctf ff/so clans and players.hopefully the maker of xmod for jk2(the best ctf mod) master hex, is already planning 2 do xmod 2 that will put jk:ja has we like 2 play , kicks , no force taking with special moves, dfa like it was on jk2... this way both communitys will play jk:ja. go go go hex.

majin_buu.pt
09-19-2003, 02:18 AM
since i can't edit my post and i forgotten some stuff.. all the reviews only cares about graphics and single play.. we don't care about that we care about multiplayer and the best reviewers are the players, i am right? and if the top community of ctf/tffa ff so are saying that u made this game for n00bs and duelers something most be wrong right? oh wait the guys who post on this foruns are best players than all off us... even some of the best duelers of the world are saying that the game sucks. they prefer jk2...

SuperNub
09-19-2003, 02:26 AM
That being said, any time you change anything, you're going to piss off people who are used to something a specific way. If they're not willing to try something new, then I guess that's their prerogative. If we didn't try to improve the game, there would have been no point in making a new game. Whatever people think, we don't try to make a game suck and release it. We make the games the way we think are fun. If people like them (as they usually seem to do), great. If not, that's life!

I think everyone who gave this game a chance and a play were willing to try something new. All we received was a version of JO with force being rendered to a point of weakness and new saber animations that are more flashy then useful. This game is nothing that an experienced modder couldnt've added onto JO. All I see are force combos deterierated and newbish gameplay my dog could dominate with.

Hell, I'm sure the Tenebrae team who worked on the Quake remake and the like could've made JKA in their free time with the same exact quality.

But what you're basically saying is you guys make games that you find entertaining, regardless of what other people are going to think and then you release it? ..are you sure you aren't the same team who worked with Squaresoft in making such "classics" as Saga Frontier or Final fantasy 8-10?

With an attitude like that, I'll be surprised if Raven isn't withered away in five years to come. And I wouldn't say people usually like all your games, does SoF2 ring a bell?

Maybe you should've listened to all those who got a hold of the leaked beta and were complaining from the get go that this game is going to be a complete online bore. Then you release this final version, which in complete irony, is even WORSE then the buggy beta that was out and about.

You might've pleased the uber optimistic star wars fanboys, and people who cried about getting beat constantly in JO, but for most of us experienced players who came to love JO online this is nothing short then an utter disappointment.

Jello123
09-19-2003, 02:31 AM
OMGOMG!! LOOK!! ENEMY FC!!! DIEE!!!!

*flag gets capped*

*presses buttons to do kata*



oh yeah...go hex times 2

Rumor
09-19-2003, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by Remij
ChangaKhan:

I gotta say that I'm dissapointed with the multiplayer aspect of Jedi Academy. In JO, I really only played the multiplayer game, not too much of the single player game, many of my friends are the same way, the multiplayer in JO is plainly the best online videogaming experience I have ever had. But sometimes I feel like I've only gotten half of a game with JO, the single player game is still great dont get me wrong, its just with such an incredible experience playing with other people, I never got into the Single player mode.

Now, this brings me to my point with JA, I myself and many others, feel that the changes made to the multiplayer game, will reduce the game to a hack and slash melee that lowers the quality of the online experience. Kicks being removed is almost unacceptable for me because of the style in which I play. The tempo of the game has slowed considerably and is generally a bore.

I really wanted to like this game, and I still do, the customization is incredible(kudos for that) and everything is really intuitive, but it is falling short of my own, and many of my friends expectations!
with sooo many other great games coming out this year, with the way JA is right now, I honestly doubt it will be getting much of my attention, especially since JO mp is still greater than JA mp.

thanks for ur time and efforts

disgruntled jedi, Remij

i couldn't agree more, my young padawan :cool:

Imm0z
09-19-2003, 04:45 AM
jk2 ownz jk3

jk3 the buggy beta ownz jk3

hell, i had more fun owning bots in the beta than playing jk3 mp

i wasted one hour running around like a n00b and swinging my stupid saber and hardly killing anyone in jk3 mp. All i did was whore lightning and i was voted out of the server. And i still see ppl do saber down= peace. die ma'fuka u ruin everything

i forgot, the only thing i like about the game is force lightning.

x+XCuBeX+x

Cube*says*fuk*u

StaffMaster
09-19-2003, 12:39 PM
it seems that those who are complainning are the ones that were kick spamming and basically abusing other players who wanted to get the most out of online saber battle only to get bored and frustrated by maniacs who use it as an OpenGl chat room and then kickwhore those who are merely to enjoy the intent of the game.


In the latter days of OUtcast I hardly played anymore because of the premadonnas runnning around on the server.


If your version of online gaming was so fun then why were the servers practically barren in the months leading up to this game.

Whereas in version 1.02 it was still a vibrant game?

I agree with RAD.......do away with the retarded admin mods.
If someone is being a moron let the players vote him out.

PLain and simple.


In summation if all the retards who ruined OUtcast online shunning this latest incarnation then...........
GOOD RIDDANCE
Hope fully we will get a new batch of enthusiastic gamers who arent interested in standing around trying to look cool and chatting in OpenGL

traj
09-19-2003, 01:18 PM
You seriously confused me right now. Did you just say that the people whining about kicks are the same ones who use the game as a chat room?

If so, you couldn't be more wrong.

Those of us who want the kicks back in the game are FF/SO CTF players and FF duelists. Kicks are important in CTF and FF duels. Thats what we care about. The people who use this game as a chat room have nothing to whine about. Thay got what they wanted.

Cool looking saber animations that are ridiculously easy to avoid, and new saber hilts. Competitive play is slowed down, dumbed down, and dulled down. A real disappointment. Why would you make a sequel slower?

Jello123
09-19-2003, 02:00 PM
to summarize staff master's post:

i was a nub so i quit JO

gg

Poison
09-19-2003, 02:29 PM
If you notice, even with the release of JA, JK2 CTF servers are still played in.

I haven't bought the game yet (and I don't know if I will) but I was kinda surprised when even a few days after its release, some people who had the game were in [div3rse] CTF server playing JK2.

I asked a few people if they had JA yet, and a few said yes. I asked why they weren't playing it instead, and they said they enjoyed playing JK2 better.

I won't be surprised if next week this is still true.

traj
09-19-2003, 03:20 PM
...and all of that would be fine. We could stay in JO and play the game we all love.

The problem is, JA has some really cool ****. Nicer graphics, nice maps, and a larger community. The vast majority of the JO community has long since packed it up and moved on. To put it bluntly, it's a ghost town over there.

Now here's an opportuniy to play on larger maps with a larger community and new maps. That's what we all want to do. Now all we need is working balance that makes sense for FF/SO CTF and FF Duels and we'd be set.

=AX=Katalyst
09-19-2003, 10:23 PM
U wanna go talk? get aim

u wanna get ur butt kicked? come to jk2 SO CTF

u wanna get owned by a nub who can press 3 buttons? go to JA

u wanna have fun? put jk3 texts and maps in jk2

u wanan know what happens if that does? jk3 = dead for serious players=jk2 ownz again

StaffMaster
09-19-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Jello123
to summarize staff master's post:

i was a nub so i quit JO

gg



Keep dreaming Kemosabe the only fun i would get out of playing outcast in its latter days was going to these clan servers and owning.

I still didnt see the point in 20 somewhat ppl standing around in an online game like it was some loser cyber cafe or something.

as far kicks being a part of competitive play thats subjective.

Im a saber purist and believe in beating you strictly with my saber skills.Anything ater that ws window dressing.


That being said I find Academy a pure delight.
More moves tighter control
different saber styles
unstoppable katas
(those that complain about its usefullness are noobs)
(infact its my main death strike move)

IM preachig to the choir whenIsay to Raven to keep doing what their doing and forget all the basket cases who cant get with the times.

BigFurryWhale
09-20-2003, 12:01 AM
Ok... this is rediculous. As a ff/so/ctf player I am offended. You say that you go into clan servers and "own" them. If you are referring to ctf servers i KNOW this isn't true. Those who can't kick, or find it a "lamer" move will not go -anywhere- in so/ff/ctf. n fact, I invite you any time to swing by the div server, and try and "own" any decent player. Im sure it would be a gf.


if jk3 is basically jk2 with force combos dumbed down, force itself dumbed down, and kick removed, there is NO point in playing it.

Jello123
09-20-2003, 12:45 AM
Somebody shave that whale!

neway

to summarize staffmaster's post again:

OMG1!!! FOrcE WHoOREE!! REAL jeDI dont use ForCe!11!

and do what furrywhale advised you to
..
come and swing by [div3rse] CTF and experience owning..

being owned that is.


"unstoppable" laff ok there..it's called avoiding it

you see a car coming..you get the hell out of the way

you see some one doing a kata in front of you..YOU RUN INTO HIM CUZ YOU FIND HIM SEXY WHEN HE'S DOING HIS GLO STICK MOVES

!!1!!11

StaffMaster
09-20-2003, 01:37 AM
"Could you please stand still while i perform my kata on you"


IF thatts what you imagine happens when I play online I seriously question your sanity.


Is that what happend with DFA in Outcast?

'yeah oh ok hold right there while I line up TO DFA you"

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Side
09-20-2003, 01:50 AM
erm dude....jello=/sarcasm

evry1 know u dont stand still in front of katas or jk2 DFA,he was stating how useless kata are

[fk]myth.
09-20-2003, 01:51 AM
I would just like to say... forshame.

I was a fluent JO player, and I thought you guys (raven) really hit the ball with that one. It was my alltime favourite game and made me get into gaming a little more seriously. I couldn't pry my eyes away from that game.

Back when summer was just starting (or before, I cant remember) I was so hyped about JA that I wanted it the first minute it was shipped. Now, I haven't gotten it yet, because in my opinion it isn't worth the $50. From what I've heard, and not just 1 person, from most of the JO community, was that this game isn't worth $20.

Everything is nerfed. This game's target community are the "Honor Code" saber people who ran around with their sabers swining or amsitting yelling "Saber down no attack lamer!" Now, I'm sure they're going to love this game, but I must say that I am appauled by the physics of this game. No kick, no pull throw, these are the moves that seperated the Gamers from the "OMGz My Sk!n lo0K$ lik3 d4rth MauL !!! lUk3 i M ju0r f4ther!!" people.

You guys worked hard on this game, and touche, a fine game indeed, but... for people who want to play a FPS game and not an RPG, this game is a big dissappointment... Oh well, there's always JK4...

g//plaZma
09-20-2003, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by [fk]myth.
You guys worked hard on this game, and touche, a fine game indeed, but... for people who want to play a FPS game and not an RPG, this game is a big dissappointment... Oh well, there's always JK4...

The way everything's headed now, I won't be suprised if JK4 ends up being an RPG like KOTOR with an MP like Diablo2 (both games aren't that bad but they're just not JK)

StaffMaster
09-20-2003, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by Side
erm dude....jello=/sarcasm

evry1 know u dont stand still in front of katas or jk2 DFA,he was stating how useless kata are


and im stating that I have seen few people able to avoid my katas in combination with my fighting style.

ganjalf
09-20-2003, 03:54 AM
Dear Raven

If u readin this post it is because i am dead.......**** NO WRONG MESSAGE.......If ur readin this post its cos u done summat wrong mateyrinos basiccaly in blunt im gunna sum up what u need to do to make ur multiplayer aspect ummmmmmm howshould i put it.oh yeah playable. First off get rid of the gay ass katas (we know they look good but ffs their ****e an overused) also get rid of the combos (crouch forward and fire) and also put the kick back in part from that everythings good. i dont min d the multiplayer too much but the katas and combos over balance the stab move and killin noobs doin combos just well umm aint as fun as watchin em mess up a move they meant to do lmao. but i have to say GG all the same dudes u just need to patch some stuff up (as to be expected) and some of u shouldnt diss it so early what would u rather do? play shadows of the empire?

Jello123
09-20-2003, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by StaffMaster
and im stating that I have seen few people able to avoid my katas in combination with my fighting style.

in ja, it forces the opponent to come close to you in other to have ANY chance of killing some dude (not considerin pull throw but w/e) ...should you be ffaing..and this SHOULD only occur when ur ffaing...thus you can kata all you want

ctf = different story

therefore, it is not YOUR fighting style..but the style that Raven wanted it to be

Imm0z
09-20-2003, 05:26 AM
when u do a kata atleast u should be able to run or move around instead of standing there like a bitch and getting ur ass fuked.

and force lightning is all great raven and lucas but really u fly back a mile when u get hit by it, thou its fun, i dont like it. COuld be fun in ctf...

AND PLEASE PUT KICK BACK. i keep double tapping jump.

ganjalf
09-20-2003, 07:52 AM
JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP = people look like rabbits tryin to kick lmao they just jump around

[fk]myth.
09-20-2003, 12:36 PM
I still don't see why these moves were taken out in the first place? To put more emphasis on running around holding the Attack1 button? Looking like a fool doing a kata while the person moves back and throws his saber at you 3-4 times? Or giving the RPG "honor" people what they wanted? I'm confused, Raven.

g//plaZma
09-20-2003, 01:13 PM
In my opinion, the katas are fine as they are. Sometimes, they're useful in situations and other times, they will get you killed for doing them randomly.

The only thing I'd like to see changed is the fact that all you have to press is fire+alt fire to execute one. Anyone can do that with ease. It's strange how the specials on the single saber require more buttons to press and more timing to execute but yet, they do significantly less damage than what you can do by pressing fire+alt fire.

kru
09-20-2003, 04:06 PM
Anybody with saber down in FFA deserves a beating. It is by far the most annoying thing in the game.

[fk]myth.
09-20-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by kru
Anybody with saber down in FFA deserves a beating. It is by far the most annoying thing in the game.

Amen

Jedith
09-20-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Slyuss
lol, most of us are probably happy that it doesn't use the Unreal2 or Half-Life 2 engines. I'm still usin a GeForce 2 MX 400 and JA and JO run pretty much perfectly (about 30-40) constant FPS. Unless you spawn about 10 chewies and 10 enemies =)) which is quite fun to do! =) I got the same card. I get like, 1fps when I log onto MP. It just simply lags the HELL out and freezes.