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Comm539
09-18-2003, 02:34 PM
You closed the other thread, so...
No point in flaming etc, no point so just this:

No combo's, no groundkills (you know what this does to s/o ctf?), no grip kick, weak forces etc.
And whats with the sabers? Why they so weak? It feels like your waving a breadstick around.
Whats the point of the new 'kata'? They leave you open forever and only hit if someones dosile (noob) enough to walk into you and stand right beside you. Sure they looks nice, but its just eyecandu for the rpg ppl.
JA just seems like the dream game for all the noobs who played JO running round with blue style dooling people screaming "i owner luke skiwacker" and crying when they get kicked.

This isn't meant to flame JA, its just constructive criticism. You say "leave them to it" Well we left them to it and they came back with this. Only through the community saying whats they like/ don't like such as this can lucas arts know what people want changed.
Peace.

kazesan
09-18-2003, 02:48 PM
I think taking out kick was a great idea. So many people thought this game was an uber kick fest and that the sabers were meaningless. Now in JA you get stronger sabers capable of wailing on someone. Noone is going to be spamming blue btw. I played a FFA server and single sabers were the minority.

The staff and dual twirls are abused and the damage scale seems slightly skewed. However I think single saber can stand up to dual and staff. Specials are going to be spammed though. You will see a twirl or a kata every 5 seconds. Of course this is because of the massive damage the moves do and the fact that they can't be blocked.

Siege mode however is awesome. No more whiny BS RPGers or amsit goons. Hoth felt like hoth. I WAS a snowtrooper taking the base. The fact that I could set up an EWEB stationary cannon whenever I wanted was also awesome. The other two maps don't seem as good as hoth, but I never quite figured out what to do in the desert, and Korriban was a frenzy.

The katas are not pointless btw. They are the best moves in the game. Many people do walk into them although you shouldn't call them n00bs seeing as how the game just came out you're a n00b too. Plus if you get 1 or 2 hits in with the kata before they get out of range then you could kill them then and there.

Its too early to make judgement calls on what is right/wrong and if it needs to be patched. I think siege is great and needs more maps and vehicles.Poweduel is also much fun. I played one ctf map with bots and it was great. I havn't played original duel yet but I will check it out today.

Just cause you don't like the game doesn't mean others don't. The game is about sabers, and saber fighting. There isn't a grip icon on the box so stop complaining.

Prime
09-18-2003, 02:56 PM
Just give the game a little time and everyone will learn what the good strategies are :)

Comm539
09-18-2003, 02:58 PM
Oh thank god they don't whore blue style anymore...They just have the duel sabers now :eek: The duel sabers "wook like anikane fwom Attack of teh clowns, but i own anikane...and darth wader!!!1111" Please, your point strengthens the argument. Kata's take ages to complete, leaving you open forever if you miss and the chance of actually hitting is practically zero (providing you don't play noobs). Its like the people who used to dfa whore in duels...great tactic.
And its never too early to judge no kicks in ctf. Kick is needed in s/o ctf, groundkills too, especially on a pickup server and and now sabers do miniscule damage and theres the new uber drain power, cappers have nothing to worry about, just run and cap.

Master William
09-18-2003, 03:05 PM
You, my friend, have obviously played it for just a second and then made decisions.

Play it for a longer time. And the kata always kill my enemies...

Comm539
09-18-2003, 03:09 PM
Oh man, maybe we can dool william!!11111 :rolleyes:
Well i bought the game this morning, but i've been playing for quite abit longer, it doesn't matter, anyone can see these things.
I reitterate, kata's will only kill someone stupid enough to run into it...fair enough, kata can be the new dfa (since dfa isn't instant kill anymore), but with the uber drain and the reduced damage from normal saber attacks, s/o ctf becomes a standoff. Kicks are needed.
The drain is even more ridiculous for duels. Duels are again a standoff. It means you have to go light and keep absorb on all the time.

Icasaracht
09-18-2003, 03:09 PM
Drain is definately uber. I love how it fills up my force bar when I have absorb on.

DigitalVapor
09-18-2003, 04:28 PM
Did you just ADMIT to playing the BETA?!?!?! Where's a mod when you need him. You cant go judging an entire game when you have only barely played THE FINAL PRODUCT. How many times do people need to be told the beta wasnt finished and had various problems. Now go take a closer look at the press releases, developer interviews and PLAY THE LEGAL VERSION!!! You will learn that every one of your complaints (except maybe the dual twirl whoring, thats irritating) Are unfounded. The saber combat is fine, the game is well balanced, and you need to give the grip-whoring a rest. You dont even have the right to pass judgement since you played an illegal copy of the game. KURGAN!! GET HIM OUTTA HERE PLEASE!!

DigitalVapor
09-18-2003, 04:52 PM
OOPS SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST. I THINK ITS FIXED NOW

traj
09-18-2003, 04:56 PM
These are the same people who called the best FF players in the game kick whores and force whores. They're as happy as pigs in **** right now.

traj
09-18-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by DigitalVapor
Did you just ADMIT to playing the BETA?!?!?! Where's a mod when you need him. You cant go judging an entire game when you have only barely played THE FINAL PRODUCT. How many times do people need to be told the beta wasnt finished and had various problems. Now go take a closer look at the press releases, developer interviews and PLAY THE LEGAL VERSION!!! You will learn that every one of your complaints (except maybe the dual twirl whoring, thats irritating) Are unfounded. The saber combat is fine, the game is well balanced, and you need to give the grip-whoring a rest. You dont even have the right to pass judgement since you played an illegal copy of the game. KURGAN!! GET HIM OUTTA HERE PLEASE!!

Maybe he played the game at his friends house all day yesterday nub. You dont know. GET TEH HALL MONITOR!!!!!!!

DigitalVapor
09-18-2003, 05:12 PM
I made an educated guess based on the context of his comments. He complained about game issues that were evidently present in the beta. Human induced problems such as saber-twirl whoring are one thing but actual gameplay issues are somthing else. I got my pre-ordered copy yesterday afternoon and none of the "breadstick" problems he complained about were there, but from what I have heard, the BETA version's saber combat was crap because it wasnt finishd or balanced. And given the odds of someone having played the beta (these people inexplicably complain the most too I have noticed) Chances are quite strong that he played the beta and didnt understand the part where IT WASNT FINISHED. I admit, I was even a little tempted to hunt that beta down but I didnt. I have a longstanding loyalty to Lucasarts and now to Raven as well. Every SW game I have I bought legitimately, and I have alot of SW games. I have the entire DF series now and a TON of other SW games. I fought that temptation for many reasons, Loyalty, Legality, and the fact that I didnt want some buggy, half arsed version of the game spoiling my view of the retail version. So maybe he didnt play an illegal copy but the odds are strongly in favor of him playing the beta based on his comments.

kazesan
09-18-2003, 05:15 PM
CTF is something I don't know about. I havn't played JA CTF yet so I may agree with you. However I never kicked alot in JK2. Actually I never kicked. I never played FFA though. There are still combos though. Grip+saber throw I think is in. Plus the opponents saber turns off so if they don't push out they are dead. Also new combos like lightning/drain and absorb/protect are also in.

I hate all the RPG people. I also hate all the whiners. If you don't like the game so be it. Mods will come out and JK2 will still have servers in the mean time. JA is a huge improvement on JK2 IMO. You actually use the lightsaber as a deadly weapon instead of as a shield against guns. Also *gasp* more than 1 stance is useful now. All the sabers have their uses. In fact in the FFA I played first and 2nd place were single saber users. (I was 2nd :p )

I'd much rather spam katas and hold on the attack button with dual sabers than spam DFAs and tap the jump button frantically.

Kurgan
09-18-2003, 05:25 PM
People who played the illegal beta just shot themselves in the foot IMHO.

You gave yourself expectations of the game that were unrealistic and set yourself up for disappointment. NO SYMPATHY FOR YOU!

Anyway, Kicks are still in the game, according to Raven, it's simply a server option (look at the documentation for the Win32 dedicated server).

As to ground attacks, I don't know, I haven't tried. But look in the "moves" section in MP help (in-game).

As to the sabers being weak, you do know that the saber only game modes have weaker sabers by default? You can change this by using the Saberdamagescale cvar.

Raven did this ON PURPOSE because people complained so much that the sabers in FFA/CTF (with other weapons) were too weak, but the sabers in Duels weren't weak enough (duels needed to be longer). It could very well be that the same logic applies to "Saber Only" mode, so change the cvar to your liking.

The console is a wonderful and powerful thing, and if used properly to its potential, I think a lot of these complaints will disappear.

traj
09-18-2003, 05:39 PM
So if all these servers are tweaking damage scales then we will have to adjust our play for each server we visit? Sounds annoying.

I'm not saying this just to be difficult. But say what you will about the saber damage in JA, at least I knew it would be the same from server to server.

Comm539
09-18-2003, 05:42 PM
Omg, i didn't even play the beta...Like i'm gonna spend 6-7 hours downloading a half finished version. I actually rented the game yesterday and bought it today. All this 'educated guessing.' I make an educated guess that half the people who post here are the ones who run around blue style (or double sabered now )shoutin 'dool meh i'm luek skiwacker'. Thats my 'educated guess'.

a.) theres no ptk and no kicks (or non damaging ones) As traj said all you noobs are happy as hell to fight like 'teh movies' with double sabers.

b.) there are no ground kills because of the stupid kick thing. It probably more damaging to you to ground someone else than it is for them

c.) sabers are weak

d.) no out of l.o.s gripping

Fair enough you guys want this out of duels etc. Thats really sounds noobish, but w/e The point is, raven just messed up s/o ctf completely so everygame (that isn't infested with noobs) is a standoff.
Peace.

Agen
09-18-2003, 06:01 PM
Um.... It's only been out for a few days in america yet you can announce that ever server without n00bs is a standoff...
You also complain that sabers are weak...... why do you complain if you're so good.
You then insult everyone here by saying half of the community here "are the ones who run around blue style (or double sabered now )shoutin 'dool meh i'm luek skiwacker'"

Also it's quite strange that you claim you haven't played the illegal beta but have had more practice.. as far as i know you can't rent a game until about a week after it's out.

theres no ptk and no kicks (or non damaging ones) The end of the world huh :rolleyes: Learn how to play JA, not import your JK2 skills.

PS: Stop whining.

Mordred
09-18-2003, 06:05 PM
Well you call everyone that like the idea of getting rid of the kick and so on a noob, yet to me u just sound like a whining child, because u cant get your own way.

and ground kills are still very possible, thier are still other ways of knocking people over without using the old JO style kick

Master William
09-18-2003, 06:06 PM
I am enjoying playing the game at my friends house, and I will continue to enjoy it.
Too bad for you, I am guessing you won't get it... (I didn't read all posts very close) Well, I guess I'll see you online in JK2 or Dark Forces if I ever try it.

:rolleyes:

traj
09-18-2003, 06:12 PM
You must play alot of FF/SO CTF
/sarcasm

I couldn't care less about the other game types, I'm talking solely about FF duels and FF/SO CTF.

You try chasing a good FC around a giant map when he's got speed+absorb on and see how handy your katas are.

Good luck to you sir.

Rad Blackrose
09-18-2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
The end of the world huh :rolleyes: Learn how to play JA, not import your JK2 skills.

PS: Stop whining.

Wow, considering the fact that the saber is a complete piece of **** in JKII, kicks were relied on because you could create reliable combos with them.

I'm getting sick of educating relentlessly idiotic halfwits like you on why JKII was a failure in terms of saber combat. Waah! He's using PTK or GK! Cry more. Maybe Raven will take out all saber stances, revoke the force powers, and put away guns. All we will have is a whacked out blue stance with sabers doing 1 point of damage per contact.

Kurgan: Saberdamagescale is a solution, I will give you that, but what about those who fail to implement it?

MasterNeo
09-18-2003, 07:17 PM
Rad my old IDS buddy how are things going?

To be on topic, I agree with Agen and Rad

JA has changed a great deal from JK2, although I dont agree with all the changes, its simply a matter of adapting to JA, instead of importing JK2 skills (although having experience in JK2 helps a grea deal)

The saber was crap in JK2, therefore more people relied on the kick and DFA because like Rad said, they did quite a bit of damage and could be used to create reliable combos.

Now that those techniques are gone, all the more reason to adapt to the changes, or heck just mod it.

Prime
09-18-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Comm539
I actually rented the game yesterday and bought it today. So let me get this straight. You rented Jedi Academy and played it, and thus found out that it had all these big, life-shattering problems, and decided you didn't like it. You then proceeded to head out to the store the next day and throw down a fair amount of cash for this same game you think is aweful. Dude, you stuck it to yourself this time.

Originally posted by Comm539
a.) theres no ptk and no kicks (or non damaging ones) As traj said all you noobs are happy as hell to fight like 'teh movies' with double sabers. Yes, I like that is is like "teh" movies, sure. It is a Star Wars game after all :) So kicks are removed. So what? Surely there are other ways to score kills. But I guess there aren't, because you have been playing the game you hate long enough to found out that there are no other options.

Originally posted by Comm539
b.) there are no ground kills because of the stupid kick thing. It probably more damaging to you to ground someone else than it is for them So your saying there is no other way than flip kicks to knock someone to the ground. How long have you been playing?

Originally posted by Comm539
c.) sabers are weak They are stronger than they are in JO FFA, that's for sure. Raven designed it so the damage is much higher in gametypes like FFA, CTF, and so on compared to Duels. Red stance as often a one-hit-kill. How much more damage do you want them to cause?

Besides, this is just a game. Of course it isn't going to be perfect and there are things not everyone is going to like. Why is it making you :ball: ? Is it preventing you from proving your are uber or something? :)

Originally posted by traj
You try chasing a good FC around a giant map when he's got speed+absorb on and see how handy your katas are. How long is someone going to be able to speed+absorb for? Their Force power is going to drop pretty quickly, especially considering any special move requires force power now.

GLmig
09-18-2003, 07:34 PM
Comm539 u say that when we use the katas we stay vulnerable until the kata finishes, i havent tryed this but cant u jump when doing the kata? cant u roll when doing the kata stoping it? cant u throw your saber when doing it to stop it? like i said i havent tryed it but i bet 1 of the sugestions or more might work (i think, i hope)

Prime
09-18-2003, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by GLmig
Comm539 u say that when we use the katas we stay vulnerable until the kata finishes, i havent tryed this but cant u jump when doing the kata? cant u roll when doing the kata stoping it? cant u throw your saber when doing it to stop it? like i said i havent tryed it but i bet 1 of the sugestions or more might work (i think, i hope) You should also be able to use another power (like force push) and that should stop it as well.

Agen
09-18-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Wow, considering the fact that the saber is a complete piece of **** in JKII, kicks were relied on because you could create reliable combos with them.

I'm getting sick of educating relentlessly idiotic halfwits like you on why JKII was a failure in terms of saber combat. Waah! He's using PTK or GK! Cry more. Maybe Raven will take out all saber stances, revoke the force powers, and put away guns. All we will have is a whacked out blue stance with sabers doing 1 point of damage per contact.

Huh? I'm on your side, i can't stand the whinging that's happening. I used ptk all the time, I'm gonna live with it and not end up whining. Better to adapt than while your ass off so don't gimme that crap.

Most of these whiner's complaints go on like this -
it's not like jk2 - Cry Cry Cry
JA doesn't have my fav move from JO - Cry Cry Cry
I don't like this - Cry Cry Cry
I keep getting beat because of this move - Cry Cry Cry
It's laggy, totally not my fault- Cry Cry Cry
Random stupid thing that no one cares about - Cry Cry Cry
I can't adapt, which is all raven's fault - Cry Cry Cry
etc. etc.

I konw the saber is almost useless in jk2, I'm not saying it isn't, I'm saying don't start whining to the community that you can't beat anyone and then refuse to adapt to the new game
:mad:

traj
09-18-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by Prime

How long is someone going to be able to speed+absorb for? Their Force power is going to drop pretty quickly, especially considering any special move requires force power now.

With an energizer, they could hold it forever. FCs dont need to do any special moves, they just need to run.

Rad Blackrose
09-18-2003, 07:58 PM
No... Don't tell me THAT still works.

They take out PTK, GK, etc, but "it" still works?

Prime
09-18-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
Huh? I'm on your side, i can't stand the whinging that's happening. I used ptk all the time, I'm gonna live with it and not end up whining. Better to adapt than while your ass off so don't gimme that crap.

Most of these whiner's complaints go on like this -
it's not like jk2 - Cry Cry Cry
JA doesn't have my fav move from JO - Cry Cry Cry
I don't like this - Cry Cry Cry
I keep getting beat because of this move - Cry Cry Cry
It's laggy, totally not my fault- Cry Cry Cry
Random stupid thing that no one cares about - Cry Cry Cry
I can't adapt, which is all raven's fault - Cry Cry Cry
etc. etc.

I konw the saber is almost useless in jk2, I'm not saying it isn't, I'm saying don't start whining to the community that you can't beat anyone and then refuse to adapt to the new game
:mad: This is exactly what is happening. The flip kick is removed, so just learn to adapt and get some new moves. Jeez. I had no problem with the kick per se, or a problem with people who used it because it was the most effective. Well, now other things will be effective. Why not take a little time to learn them. Flip kicks was not what made JO a good game.

Originally posted by traj
With an energizer, they could hold it forever. FCs dont need to do any special moves, they just need to run. I do not play CTF, so you will have to bare with me :) But since now the red stance is more or less a one hit kill, won't that go a long way to dealing with a speed+absorb FC?

WadeV1589
09-18-2003, 08:13 PM
Reason I posted this in this thread was I wasn't sure (and didn't think) it warranted a new thread and was relatively on topic of this (complaints).

I have to ask....why do the players who played JO and then go on to complain about JA think they're in the right? They remove this, they add that, this new "fix" destroys the game....yadda yadda blah blah. The most important point being this isn't JO, this is JA, from a technical point of view it may as well be a major mod for JO, from a gamers point of view, it's a new game requiring new skills and no whiners!

So many people complain about the game and say "n00bs will take advantage of this and use it"...I say, good for the so called n00bs! If it will allow them to score and they'll enjoy playing then fine! What gives anyone the right to complain about "n00bs" just because they're doing what they know how to do? I hear far more complaining from so called "l33t" players than "n00bs".

Isn't it time all you complainers faced this is a game for anyone and everyone to play, people will play how they want to play, no-one is right in how to play ESPECIALLY you people who go calling people n00bs, you are the worst players out there if a lot of people were honest acting like you know how to play the best...

And I guarantee some people will read this and want to argue against it...what's betting they're the "l33t" people who call others "n00bs"?

traj
09-18-2003, 08:25 PM
Rad, I think 'it' does work. Haven't tried it myself yet but I heard some things.

Moving on. SP, FFA, NF Duels, Siege, Power Duels, and Guns are not my concern. I'm speaking only about the competitive FF/SO CTF community and the FF duel community. The rest might be fine, but these are problem areas and they need to be addressed.

Comm539
09-18-2003, 08:27 PM
Let me enlighten you people:
I bought the game becuase i played jk2. No matter how bad/good JA, i will buy it. I believe it can be patched to be a good game and if not then rely on x mod and any other mods implementing an ounce of sense. Anyway moving away from 'reason's why i did and didn't buy the game'

No groudkills: no kicks to ground people,
There are other ways
Name them. The other point is, if you ever were grounded, you do a stupid spring up kick probably damaging the attacker more than you were damaged.

No kicks: I'm talking about real ctf, not some duel saber skiwackers on vacation from tatoonie. Real ctf, with clans: No kicks, ridiculously weak sabers, a spiderman wallstick, any old energiser or healer and you've got yourself a standoff. CTF is reduced to 'who can get the lucky kata first'
How you gonna clear the pad from the campers? You can't kick them off, they sure as hell won't walk into your kata. Maybe if you ask them nicely?

PS. the reason you hear more complaining from '1337' players than noobs, is because this game is perfect for the 'Dart Waders' and 'Luek skiwackers' who dool duel sabers to look like 'anikane from teh clowns'. This game is a dumbed down JO and i'm just constructively criticising for features to be returned (maybe just for ctf...i don care about your power duels and tffa, (cough...team kata whoring...cough)). Thats all.

ganjalf
09-18-2003, 08:34 PM
this may sound seminally retarded but...............all those people who are complaining here, why are u tryin to defer people from buying it cos we dont give two ****'s about ur opinion mate, ok a few things are screwed or not implemented but hell i dont care its ****ing STAR WARS MATE. btw im from uk im goin out at 8 am and buyin this game. AND I THOUGHT SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE ON n64 WAS GOOD. oh yeah that and rodland on the amiga.

Mordred
09-18-2003, 08:43 PM
Well then, by what u say even if u had the old style kick u could ground kill as they can do the jump up kick.

but u can still know people to the ground, force pull and push work quite well if u time it right an they dont have Absorb on.

the Staff kick does the job too.

so u have to change your tactics a bit, whoopie.

im glad they chage things, whats the point of buying JK2 a second time for some new sabers??

its still a bit to close to JK2 for my liking, feel liek a add on pack, but if u put back all the things from JK2 and take out the new stuff in JO it will just be JK2 with Duel and staff sabers aswell.

would not worth my 30 in that case, i'd stick with JK2, but JK2 was flawed and i was hoping they would get it right this time round, and they seem to be going in the right direction to me.

FR3DDY
09-18-2003, 09:14 PM
HI all !


When i first played JK:JA, I thought to my self, WTF is this ?? then i decided to give it a give it a day. I played it for quite a few hours now, and i am thining of getting it replaced for a pac man game (it takes much more skill and knowledge to play it). I have to say that the game play (talking bout MP) is totaly f***** up, and i have to say all the new "cool" moves LOOK kinda nice, but when it comes to using in a FF/SO combat, they just don't do what i expeced it to do, when i bought the game. This game was suposed to be a sequal to the JEDI KNIGHT seires, yet they somehow mannaged to make a step back in the series. So if it is a sequal then most of the players in JK: JA played the JK2:JO. There for if a JEDI knight was able to do special moves without using force, then how come a few years after that, he uses force to do them :confused: . And if a JEDI knight was able to use GK's PTK's kick's, did he forget how just few years later, guess the JEDI aren't that good after all. ANd to concentrate on FF/SO CTF combat, its like some of you said use speed and absorb, get a energizer and you are home free, sounds kinda boring. Even if that is so, at least in a previous version of the same game (JK2:JO) the returnes were able to get the cappers by using a combo of rage and speed forces, while doing a red DFA which was a good way of stoping cappers, but now no more DFA's as spee+rage takes all of your force.


---------------------------------------------------------


Once again i say this is suposed to be a sequal. Yet raven took away most of the things that made JK2: JO MP legendery, and added some new uselles stuuf into it.

Comm539
09-18-2003, 09:15 PM
I'm not trying to defer you from buying the game...Go and buy it, its a good game. Only thing is that it messes up s/o ctf (organised ctf) to a standoff.
Please, you expect everyone to have saber staff now?! Comeon now, sensible suggestions ppl.

JaledDur
09-19-2003, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan

The console is a wonderful and powerful thing, and if used properly to its potential, I think a lot of these complaints will disappear.


ROFL, nice.

Guardian Omega
09-19-2003, 03:44 AM
Alright, I'm still waiting for a chance to buy the game (got the money, dont got the permission, I need to make Honor Roll)

Can you still strafe jump?:)

Prime
09-19-2003, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by Comm539
No matter how bad/good JA, i will buy it. That is a silly attitude, isn't it?

Originally posted by Comm539
No groudkills: no kicks to ground people,

Name them. The other point is, if you ever were grounded, you do a stupid spring up kick probably damaging the attacker more than you were damaged. But if you are "l33t", then you should be able to kill them. So what if people can defend themselves when knocked down now? Learn to kill people in other ways. Does winning depend on your opponant lying on the ground?

Originally posted by Comm539
I believe it can be patched to be a good game and if not then rely on x mod and any other mods implementing an ounce of sense. Like admin mods? Then we can use empower to get us victories! :D

Originally posted by Comm539
No kicks: I'm talking about real ctf, not some duel saber skiwackers on vacation from tatoonie. Real ctf, with clans: Ooh. Real CTF. The Man's game. All the other game types are for pussies! CTF shows what a big tough guy you are. And clans! CTF would be nothing but noobs without clans!

Originally posted by Comm539
PS. the reason you hear more complaining from '1337' players than noobs, is because this game is perfect for the 'Dart Waders' and 'Luek skiwackers' who dool duel sabers to look like 'anikane from teh clowns'. This game is a dumbed down JO and i'm just constructively criticising for features to be returned (maybe just for ctf...i don care about your power duels and tffa, (cough...team kata whoring...cough)). Thats all. If JA is really dumbed down JO, they why not go back to JO? If JO has everything you want, like kicks, then why waste your time with this game? JA is for newbs and kata whoring. :)

If newbs are scoring some kills in the game, so what? I mean, if you are getting beaten by newbs like Dart Waders and Luek skiwackers, perhaps you are not "leet" afterall. What kind of good player can't adapt and learn new skills?

Jello123
09-19-2003, 04:07 AM
pac man = bestest game in the worlds

and the person that replied to traj's speed absorb kata comment

you might wanna try playing some ctf and realize that a speeder can finish going around ctf_bespin 5 times before you finish running/rolling it once

and the objective of the flagger like traj said..is to STAY ALIVE..not run into a bunch of opposing team dudes and try to kill them all yourself

and to this prime guy, fyi xmod has no empowerment

it's not a "pick on f*gs mod"

it's for real admins that ADMIN

it also has options that benefit the PLAYER..not necessarily the admin

ex. locking and randomizing teams..
switchin ppl to a certain team
quickened death falls

why do you think every saber only CTF server in 104 has it?

-DK-Squee
09-19-2003, 04:28 AM
cmon people, lucasarts werent planning on making it an expansion ok jk2! they said it was A COMPLETLY DIFFERENT GAME so dont expect everything to be the same

Prime
09-19-2003, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by Jello123
pac man = bestest game in the worlds No argument here.

Originally posted by Jello123
and to this prime guy, fyi xmod has no empowerment Ah. Never heard of x mod, but I tended to stay away from JO mods in general of reasons I'm sure you can understand. I assumed that the "x" in x mod was generic, as in, any of those mods. My mistake. :)[/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by Jello123
it's not a "pick on f*gs mod" Excellent!

Originally posted by Jello123
it's for real admins that ADMIN Sounds good.

Originally posted by Jello123
it also has options that benefit the PLAYER..not necessarily the admin We needed more like those.

Originally posted by Jello123
ex. locking and randomizing teams..
switchin ppl to a certain team
quickened death falls Sounds reasonable.

Originally posted by Jello123
why do you think every saber only CTF server in 104 has it? No idea. When I saw all those mods in JO, I assumed most of them were run by 12 years olds who needed a power trip. And I never play CTF, I always considered it kind of newbish :) j/k.

scarlet
09-19-2003, 04:30 AM
Originally posted by Prime
Like admin mods? Then we can use empower to get us victories! :D

Ooh. Real CTF. The Man's game. All the other game types are for pussies! CTF shows what a big tough guy you are. And clans! CTF would be nothing but noobs without clans!

did he ever say it was the man's game? and when did he ever say the other types are for pussies? what he is simply saying is that s/o ctf is now completely ruined due to the inability to kill people who have a supporter with them. for example, have you ever seen an fc who uses protect and has two energizers with him? it is IMPOSSIBLE to kill a skilled FC without kicking them off a ledge. believe me, go to ctf_yavin in JO and try it. the only possible way is kill the supporters , drain the fc, and now that the fc will put absorb on, kill him without giving him enough force (pulls/pushes/grips) to put protect on, ALL while hoping the supporters do not make it back in time to energize him so he can put protect back on. does that sound too hard to pull off as the fc? well, as a PART TIME fc in JO s/o ctf, it is second nature to me. as a near full time returner, i can tell you that it is CRUCIAL to kick the fc down and kill him quickly. now, i won't hold you to the assumption that you do know what it is like, considering it's obvious you've never spent much time in s/o ctf (not a cutdown, just the obvious). but the fact is, s/o JO can get VERY frustrating when trying to kill a protected fc. but now? with saber damage down, no kick damage, and virtually no way to kick an intelligent fc down without him countering it? i CAN'T even begin to imagine the frustration.

and finally, if you had any experience in s/o ctf in jk2, you'd know that xmod is not a mod for empowerment, in fact, i don't even think xmod INCLUDES it. the ffa mods created empowerment for frustrated admins. xmod is simply a mod that, in JO, created 'smart suicide', where when you /kill yourself the person who inflicted the damage OR kicked you off the edge will get the deserved points. not only that, but later versions went on to fix multiple bugs in combat. it is an absolutely AMAZING mod, and it really annoys me to see you make assumptions due to the countless ffa mods you've seen. so, in conclusion, this post is not meant to flame anyone, just to give you 1% of my experience in s/o ctf to allow you to MAYBE understand how impossible JA has made my favorite mode.

Jello123
09-19-2003, 04:42 AM
http://xmod.cat5camp.com

scar spectator > scar returner laff jk

i come here to say what the other 30 CTF saberists came to say

Tactics
09-19-2003, 04:51 AM
some of you div,rk people know who i am(scar you should). i agree with everything that has been said here that relates to SO CTF/SO FF being turned to ****. everything that required precision and skill in jk2 is gone, replaced with *press k dool me* noobs(which there were quite alot of in jk2). RAVEN, all you need to do is make a patch that puts most of the combos from jk2 into jk3 like gk, ptk, pk. those moves were essential to SO games.

Luc Solar
09-19-2003, 05:15 AM
Let's give it a few days/weeks, okay?

It's not JO. You can't assume that you can use your old JO tactics, moves and combos to dominate in JA. It's different.

I've heard that there are some mad combos in this game. Dunno what they are (because it's a "secret" :swear: ), but some day I'll find out (still waiting for the game).

Nobody knew about ptk/gk's when JO came out. Same thing with JA. I'm sure there are quick and efficient ways to beat the crap out of people, they're just not the same as they were in JO.

Let's not turn JA into one of those backstabbing "1.04 basejk" servers where a 12-year-old admin pwns unsuspecting visitors with his l337 2880-degree yawspeed-spinning pull-backstabs...if you know what I mean? It's not 1.03, it's not Jedi Outcast.

I want to see what this baby can do. :)

PS. And for all the 12.000 "THIS GAEM SUXKS I can't Be teh YODA!"-whiners who are about to post atm. : shut up. Nobody cares what you think. If you want to DISCUSS, fine. If you want to WHINE, do it somewhere else. :mad:

AxVegetA
09-19-2003, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
People who played the illegal beta just shot themselves in the foot IMHO.

You gave yourself expectations of the game that were unrealistic and set yourself up for disappointment. NO SYMPATHY FOR YOU!

Anyway, Kicks are still in the game, according to Raven, it's simply a server option (look at the documentation for the Win32 dedicated server).

As to ground attacks, I don't know, I haven't tried. But look in the "moves" section in MP help (in-game).

As to the sabers being weak, you do know that the saber only game modes have weaker sabers by default? You can change this by using the Saberdamagescale cvar.

Raven did this ON PURPOSE because people complained so much that the sabers in FFA/CTF (with other weapons) were too weak, but the sabers in Duels weren't weak enough (duels needed to be longer). It could very well be that the same logic applies to "Saber Only" mode, so change the cvar to your liking.

The console is a wonderful and powerful thing, and if used properly to its potential, I think a lot of these complaints will disappear.

Hope the servers agree to a unique form of settings.

Prime
09-19-2003, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by scarlet
did he ever say it was the man's game? I took "I'm talking about real ctf...Real ctf, with clans" to mean that CTF is where it was at. As in, that is where the l33t players play.

Originally posted by scarlet
and when did he ever say the other types are for pussies? I get that impression with statements like "not some duel saber skiwackers on vacation from tatoonie" and "i don care about your power duels and tffa, (cough...team kata whoring...cough)" and so on.

Originally posted by scarlet
now, i won't hold you to the assumption that you do know what it is like, considering it's obvious you've never spent much time in s/o ctf (not a cutdown, just the obvious). but the fact is, s/o JO can get VERY frustrating when trying to kill a protected fc. but now? with saber damage down, no kick damage, and virtually no way to kick an intelligent fc down without him countering it? i CAN'T even begin to imagine the frustration. I do not know a lot about CTF because I don't play it. I am not arguing that CTF doesn't have any issues. I'm saying that many of these issues aren't "bugs", they were consious design decisions. I am arguing that it is too early in the game to know what all the effective strategies are for S/O CTF and S/O FF. A day after release have we found out everything there is about the game? JA is a different game than JO. The rules are different. I am arguing that it may be too early to fly off the handle and declare JA a complete disaster. As for weaker sabers, as Kurgan has said this is for the sabers only style, and a cvar is made available to adjust this to peoples' liking. Apparently kicks are available with a cvar. There may be solutions out there, so why are people getting so upset and demanding a patch to do something that they be able to do themselves?

And if JA CTF really can't be saved and all the skill and precision is gone, then why not migrate back to JO? It has the kicks and skill you want, right? Is this not an option? If JA is so awful, don't play JA! I'm not saying this to get rid of you all, I'm saying this because it seems to be what you really want.

Originally posted by scarlet
and finally, if you had any experience in s/o ctf in jk2, you'd know that xmod is not a mod for empowerment, in fact, i don't even think xmod INCLUDES it. the ffa mods created empowerment for frustrated admins. xmod is simply a mod that, in JO, created 'smart suicide', where when you /kill yourself the person who inflicted the damage OR kicked you off the edge will get the deserved points. not only that, but later versions went on to fix multiple bugs in combat. it is an absolutely AMAZING mod, and it really annoys me to see you make assumptions due to the countless ffa mods you've seen. so, in conclusion, this post is not meant to flame anyone, just to give you 1% of my experience in s/o ctf to allow you to MAYBE understand how impossible JA has made my favorite mode. As I stated above, this was a misinterpretation on my part about what he ment by "x mod", and admitted it was my mistake :)

mr2turbo
09-19-2003, 05:31 AM
y0u ppl R fooLs, if U were a 1337 players like me N my clan U would know that SO/CTF is enhanced 100 fold.

siNce I am 1337 i will explain - line up all your team in a row and when teh FC comes running by everyone do super kata at once and saber shred him to bits and return flag then /kill.

Jello123
09-19-2003, 05:38 AM
laff turbo

C'jais
09-19-2003, 05:55 AM
Copying Luc here, none of us dare say that all the "combos" were discovered within the first few days of JO's release.

Same with JA.

Comm539
09-19-2003, 06:37 AM
Omg Prime, your either very ignorant, or a complete ctf noob.
Let me put this simply for you:

JA adds:

Saber staff (available in JO)
Duel sabers (which lets face it is the new blue style for noobs to whore)
bunch of ata's you hope a noob will walk into

Thats it.

Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa

Cleraly a dumbed down version. But if you like it, fine. Its the s/o ctf i care about. Theres in excess of 15 s/o ctf clans out there. Go and ask any of them how JA has improved s/o ctf and they'll tell you its made it worse.

PS. Prime...you obviously don't play ctf. You nned a single healer and the guy doesn't die!!!111 One enrgiser and the guy runs away!!!1111 Learn something every day. Please refrain from commenting on gamemodes you obviously know nothing about.

cheeto101
09-19-2003, 06:58 AM
well whoop de freakin doo, So you and your little clan buddies have to find a few new moves to win. Personally, i agree with every damn post prime has made,

I dont think half of those things they removed made ctf more complicated, i think they were a bunch of cheap damn tactics made up by a bunch of people who couldnt use the freakin sabers efficiently. Now imstead if just pullin and kickin someone off a ledge, you actually have to make some type of attempt to actually slow them down and get in their way, and maybe (gasp) work as a team to defend the flag.

If you were so good and elite as you claim to be, youd simply find new tactics instead of whining about the fact that your old tactics are gone.

Rad Blackrose
09-19-2003, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by cheeto101
I dont think half of those things they removed made ctf more complicated, i think they were a bunch of cheap damn tactics made up by a bunch of people who couldnt use the freakin sabers efficiently.

Note to moron: Kicking a person off a ledge is much more effiecient then the use of the piece of **** otherwise refered to as the JKII 1.04 saber.

So please, spare me the rainstorm, because I don't want to hear it.

AxVegetA
09-19-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by Comm539
Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa

Cleraly a dumbed down version. But if you like it, fine.

You really made me lose excitement on MP. Mood down.
Well Comm you are correct, some cool stuff JO had were taken away in JA, i think we ALL agree that sux and its not good at all.
But JA isnt an official expansion, it was intended to be a diferent game with a diferent gameplay, very similar to JO.
I guess we, JO players, must get used to the new gameplay and get over our dreamed expectations of the sequel of JO.
That will happen in about a month.
Just play the game with its goods and bads, seriously.
I dont want JA make the same mistake JO did.
To make new versions that are completely diferent from each other, that wasnt good, because it splited people and changed radically the gameplay and strategies.
I hope RAven release a patche to fix some bugs and other stuff, but just that.
I know how is Comm feeling because i felt the same when i tried to change from 1.2 to 1.6 in JO. You just have to get used to the game or stop playing.

Iblis Reborn
09-19-2003, 07:49 AM
wow
can you feel the love?
i can feel the love but can YOU feel the love?

ive only played power duels so far and the healing did make it tough but it was still fun

new tactics will be made and things will get better
the only thing that will stay the same is ppl bitching about things
that, no matter what is done, will never end so i really hope raven never wanted universal approval cause they will never get it
they do however have mine though...i hope that helps

scarlet
09-19-2003, 12:30 PM
but did you have someone sitting there with the sole purpose of healing you? and, MORE importantly, have you ever tried to completely avoid getting hit without fighting back (1v1 is very easy to keep dodging someone)? now think of those two things put together in an organized s/o ctf match. i mean really, think. without a dfa there will be no way to kill such an fc. my friend just played a s/o ctf match that lasted for 37 MINUTES, the score ending 0-0 (because he left). do you see what i mean? and no, it isn't too early. the fact is, saber does less damage, and the only way to make contact with an intelligent fc is by kicking them to the ground or speed and saber swing (which, with the saber damage less and most importantly dfa out of the game, is now impossible to do any permanent damage to a healed fc), and if your logic doesn't work, TRUST me on this one.

Agen
09-19-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Comm539

Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa


Hmm... were all those things discovered in 2 days? didn't think so. This isn't JO, don't expect all your little tactics to work in JA, kapeesh?

Rumor
09-19-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by kazesan
I think taking out kick was a great idea. So many people thought this game was an uber kick fest and that the sabers were meaningless. Now in JA you get stronger sabers capable of wailing on someone. Noone is going to be spamming blue btw. I played a FFA server and single sabers were the minority.

The staff and dual twirls are abused and the damage scale seems slightly skewed. However I think single saber can stand up to dual and staff. Specials are going to be spammed though. You will see a twirl or a kata every 5 seconds. Of course this is because of the massive damage the moves do and the fact that they can't be blocked.

Siege mode however is awesome. No more whiny BS RPGers or amsit goons. Hoth felt like hoth. I WAS a snowtrooper taking the base. The fact that I could set up an EWEB stationary cannon whenever I wanted was also awesome. The other two maps don't seem as good as hoth, but I never quite figured out what to do in the desert, and Korriban was a frenzy.

The katas are not pointless btw. They are the best moves in the game. Many people do walk into them although you shouldn't call them n00bs seeing as how the game just came out you're a n00b too. Plus if you get 1 or 2 hits in with the kata before they get out of range then you could kill them then and there.

Its too early to make judgement calls on what is right/wrong and if it needs to be patched. I think siege is great and needs more maps and vehicles.Poweduel is also much fun. I played one ctf map with bots and it was great. I havn't played original duel yet but I will check it out today.

Just cause you don't like the game doesn't mean others don't. The game is about sabers, and saber fighting. There isn't a grip icon on the box so stop complaining.

jesus christ when i see **** like this i want to ****ing scream and rip the paint off my walls.

WE USED KICK BECAUSE IT DID MORE DAMAGE THAN ANY SABER ATTACK THAT A PLAYER WITH ANY ****ING SENSE WOULD BE HIT BY. IF YOU DON'T KNOW JACK **** ABOUT FF/SO DUELING IN JO, THEN DON'T ****ING COMMENT ON IT LIKE YOU ARE AN EXPERT. YOU DON'T SEE ME COMMENTING ON NO FORCE, DO YOU?

and the sabers are WEAKER, or havent you NOTICED.

siege does rule, though so i agree there, but i don't cream my pants because I AM A STOOORMTROOPAR!!!11 why does that make me want to watch the video of Triumph at the episode 2 premiere...? its just plain fun. (not bashing you about the stormtrooper part, i kinda had the feeling myself but thats not why i play)

the katas are useless against anyone who plays SMART. as in the ones who don't just rush in and try to whack you when you are doing them. therefore 99% of the time you won't kill anyone with half a brain, especially in duels.

just wait till you play the people who played ff/so ctf in jo for a year and a half and you won't be having so much fun, esp if you aren't the capper.

Hmm... were all those things discovered in 2 days? didn't think so. This isn't JO, don't expect all your little tactics to work in JA, kapeesh?

hmm you played a lot of competitive FULL FORCE saber only in jo, didn't you? your knowledge astounds me. why do we hate it the way it is now? BECAUSE WE CANNOT KILL IN A MATCH WHERE BOTH PARTIES ARE ACTUALLY TRYING THEIR DAMNDEST TO STAY ALIVE. you use up force, then they drain. once that happens, you cannot do ANYTHING other than the basic attacks. no kata, no lunge, no dfa, no saber throw, no NOTHING.

YOU PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT! IF YOU DON'T PLAY FF/SO AT LEAST SOMEWHAT SERIOUSLY, THEN DON'T ****ING COMMENT ON IT WITH YOUR GREAT KNOWLEDGE WHITCH DOES NOT ENCOMPASS IT. YOU DON'T SEE US TALKING ABOUT NF, NOW DO YOU?

my God, people like you make me want to bury this series in my septic tank and only play regular fps's for the rest of my life.

Rumor
09-19-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Prime
So let me get this straight. You rented Jedi Academy and played it, and thus found out that it had all these big, life-shattering problems, and decided you didn't like it. You then proceeded to head out to the store the next day and throw down a fair amount of cash for this same game you think is aweful. Dude, you stuck it to yourself this time.

Yes, I like that is is like "teh" movies, sure. It is a Star Wars game after all :) So kicks are removed. So what? Surely there are other ways to score kills. But I guess there aren't, because you have been playing the game you hate long enough to found out that there are no other options.

So your saying there is no other way than flip kicks to knock someone to the ground. How long have you been playing?

They are stronger than they are in JO FFA, that's for sure. Raven designed it so the damage is much higher in gametypes like FFA, CTF, and so on compared to Duels. Red stance as often a one-hit-kill. How much more damage do you want them to cause?

Besides, this is just a game. Of course it isn't going to be perfect and there are things not everyone is going to like. Why is it making you :ball: ? Is it preventing you from proving your are uber or something? :)

How long is someone going to be able to speed+absorb for? Their Force power is going to drop pretty quickly, especially considering any special move requires force power now.

prime i like you and all, but please stay out of the ff/so ctf discussion. you have no clue. fc's do NOT do specials when they are capping, they just run. no attacks, just running. speed + absorb = 30 force when it runs out, so enough for more absorb or protect or even in a few seconds, speed. not to mention he will 9 times out of ten, have support of healers/energizers who will do the fighting.

and no, the sabers in ffa/ctf/whatever are at the level of 1.04 jk2 duel its even lower.

Rumor
09-19-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Prime
This is exactly what is happening. The flip kick is removed, so just learn to adapt and get some new moves. Jeez. I had no problem with the kick per se, or a problem with people who used it because it was the most effective. Well, now other things will be effective. Why not take a little time to learn them. Flip kicks was not what made JO a good game.

I do not play CTF, so you will have to bare with me :) But since now the red stance is more or less a one hit kill, won't that go a long way to dealing with a speed+absorb FC?

no, there is no 1 hit kill in this game. the kata comes close, but no cigar, 2 hits usually, but who with half a brain sticks around for that?

Comm539
09-19-2003, 02:30 PM
Just to clarify a point, Me, rumour, fr33dy and traj are all from different clans. This isn't a group of 'buddies' as you like to say, we each come from different s/o ctf clans. This in itself shows that NO s/o ctf clan is happy.
Let me ask you this:

How do you kill an fc who:

Is energized 100% time with energy chain
Has speed and absorb to run away
Has a dedicated healer

As you can imagine, with only a decent fc (thats flag carrier for you prime) and with all the JO stuff the task is hard enough. Now everything's gone, replaced by a kata the job is impossible.

Let me just ask:
This is meant to be a new game. Ok, they removed all the stuff i've said before. What exactly is new?! I can think of 3 things:

1. The whoopass kata effective against people terminally stupid eniough to walk into them

2. Saber staff (which was available in JO)

3. Duel sabers (which are the new blue style to whore)

What exactly is new? Reitterating, they removed a whole lotta stuff and replaced it with ****all.
Fine if you like it in your other modes, i don't play them, so i won't comment on them. But ctf is now impossible in JA. Comprende prime?

Lightsaberboy
09-19-2003, 02:31 PM
im sure with some server cvar modifications you can increase saber damage to make them more powerful if they're as weak as you say they are...

Rumor
09-19-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Lightsaberboy
im sure with some server cvar modifications you can increase saber damage to make them more powerful if they're as weak as you say they are...

saber damage isn't the issue, we can change that easily. its the fact that the ONLY ways to kill a good fc are gone. no rage + dfa. no ground kills.

in jo when i started playing so/ctf i got pissed off because it was so easy for the better players to kill me once they knocked me down. then i played some defense and saw that it was a good thing, because otherwise there would be no way other than rage + dfa to kill them, so i realized it was balanced perfectly, and i didn't get mad in the slightest.

now its like a bunch of people in cs. one team is full of people who have no mouse to aim with, and the other team is the best in the world without hacks, but this time has aimbots and norecoil hacks. its THAT hard.

Prime
09-19-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Comm539
Omg Prime, your either very ignorant, or a complete ctf noob.
Let me put this simply for you:

JA adds:

Saber staff (available in JO)
Duel sabers (which lets face it is the new blue style for noobs to whore)
bunch of ata's you hope a noob will walk into

Thats it.

Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa

Cleraly a dumbed down version. But if you like it, fine. Its the s/o ctf i care about. Theres in excess of 15 s/o ctf clans out there. Go and ask any of them how JA has improved s/o ctf and they'll tell you its made it worse.

PS. Prime...you obviously don't play ctf. You nned a single healer and the guy doesn't die!!!111 One enrgiser and the guy runs away!!!1111 Learn something every day. Please refrain from commenting on gamemodes you obviously know nothing about. Fair enough. I am a CTF "newb". You have convinced me that CTF is not a game that works correctly. I will no longer suggest you to wait and see what strategies develop. So from what you are telling me, you have 3 options:

1. Get used to the fact that JA is substantially different from JO, and learn new tactics. If no one has things like rolling to move faster, then why is it an issue? If there indeed are no tactics that will work then you (and by "you" i mean the CTF community) can...

2. Develop mods that change everything to your liking, or look at all the cvars and see what ones might help you in making the game more enjoyable for you. Or...

3. Decide that JA is not salvagable and go back to JO. The general consensis in this thread seems to be that JA CTF is not nearly as good as JO CTF. This is certainly fair to feel this way. So why not continue to play JO instead of the dumbed down JA, especially if JA makes you so upset? If you have what you want in JO and not what you want in JA, then isn't the choice obvious? Again, I'm not trying to tell you guys to get lost because we disagree and you dislike the game, I am genuinely wondering why you do not pass on JA and continue to play JO, since you definitely prefer that game. I may be ignorant about S/O CTF, but it doesn't make sense to me why you would continue to play a game you obviously don't particularly like, when the one you prefer is sitting right there. :)

I am certainly willing to discuss this calmly. But reading posts calling me ignorant and claiming that people who use dual sabers or katas are newb whores isn't addressing the issues. But I am guilty of flaming too, and I will stop. :)

Wheelchairboy
09-19-2003, 02:45 PM
One question.

The original Jedi Knight was a 2 hit saber kill...the 1.02 version of JO was a 2 hit saber kill. (i'm talking about one good hit with strong stance and one good hit with strong or medium)

No one seemed to complain about the 2 hit kill in the first JK, why start now?

Anyway people did and now we have nerfed sabers. Its your own fault.

Rumor
09-19-2003, 02:49 PM
yeah, the fault of those who bitched about it, and also the fault of us who did not let raven know that it was just fine as is (although i would have fixed a few things, like the physics and animations which were improved in 1.03 and 1.04)

aXoe
09-19-2003, 02:50 PM
Well yoda or whatever the person who started this post is.
You keep on saying state ways in which we the game can be improved. I have a suggestion. STOP PLAYING IT for a while. YOu havent noticed that in Europe the game only come out TODAY :mad: so not enough people can join. If you like clans WAIT A GOODAM While that will be your remedy. Also raven looks at these forums and looks for GOOD ideas in which to improve the game. The 1ST patch will come out in 1 month or 2 imo.

Comm539
09-19-2003, 02:55 PM
Nice you understand prime :)
But we still pla s/o ctf because similar things happened when JO was released. I believe the stuff JA adds can be valuable and certainly, the graphics and animations look a hella lot nicer than JO. All i ask is that the stuff JO had is maintained in JA ctf, along with whatever new stuff raven has implemented.
I believe that this is what the entire s/o ctf community wants...
Only by threads like these can thedevs see what we all want :)

MOTL Robinton
09-19-2003, 02:57 PM
Honestly I could post a whole bunch of quotes from people here who have said poitive or negative things, but whats the point. In JO, my clan and I played all aspects of JO. So we are all familiar with what is needed and what isn't.

All you people complaining about pull kicks, pull throw kicks, ground kills, or whatever, have your view skewd from the fact that those moves ment easy kills and victories for you. Take this away and what do you have? A player with little talent on the saber and a pissed off additude. What you fail to realize is that all these moves developed by players to get easy kills forced the rest of us to either fall victim to them or use them ourselves. This seperates the community so greatly that we get stupid debates like this.

I mean, why do you think they removed these features anyways? Its not like they spun "the wheel of gameplay features" and where ever it stopped, thats what they got rid of. They recognized these things for what they are. Gameplay exploits being overused at the expense of gaming satisfaction for the majority.

This game was ment as a SABER COMBAT MULTIPLAYER GAME. It has a saber on the cover, not a blaster. The entire game is centered around using and getting better at the saber. If you really wanted a CTF game with guns and lame moves, go play CS.

When i played CTF, you know what i did? I tried everything, every option, to kill anyone with my saber and force skills and not use any moves like pull kick. Why would i do something like that you ask? Why would i limit myself to a set of skills that will inevitabley get me LESS kills than the average guy who runs around bunny hoping, waiting to land that perfect stream of pull kicks so the person can't even get off the ground or move before the next one comes? Hopefully you can see its a rehtorical question. Becuase the goal of the game was to get better at the saber. If my K/D ratio was 10/40, so what? At least I can say those 10 kills were made by my saber skills alone and not some ridiculous exploit.

Think of it like this: You in a movie theater and someone decides they can't see well enough. What do they do? Change seats? Ask the person in front of them to move a little? No, they stand up. The person behind them is like "What the **** man?!" and he stands up. Then a whole bunch of people who just wanted to sit and enjoy the movie are all FORCED to stand up cause they can't see anymore. Get it?

Please, just sit back and wait until Raven puts out the first patch. Did you really think it was going to be a perfect game for everyone out of the box? If you did your sadly dissalusioned. The devolpers will listen to your plee's and do what they think is in the public greatest opinion.

Flame me all you want but when it comes down to it, and your in a duel, who do you think is gonna win: The guy with unlimited skill with the saber, or the guy that used to win by using kick and grip as his primary weapons?

I'l see you out there.

barresm
09-19-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Comm539
Omg Prime, your either very ignorant, or a complete ctf noob.
Let me put this simply for you:

JA adds:

Saber staff (available in JO)
Duel sabers (which lets face it is the new blue style for noobs to whore)
bunch of ata's you hope a noob will walk into

Thats it.

Removed from JO:

Ground kill
pull throw kick
pull kick
grip kick
out of l.o.s gripping
rolling to move faster
strafe jumping
rage dfa

Cleraly a dumbed down version. But if you like it, fine. Its the s/o ctf i care about. Theres in excess of 15 s/o ctf clans out there. Go and ask any of them how JA has improved s/o ctf and they'll tell you its made it worse.

PS. Prime...you obviously don't play ctf. You nned a single healer and the guy doesn't die!!!111 One enrgiser and the guy runs away!!!1111 Learn something every day. Please refrain from commenting on gamemodes you obviously know nothing about.

Then quit with your :ball: and go back to JO if it was so much better! Why do you want them to turn this new game into the old one when you already have the old one. You are just some spoiled little punk that probably got his ass handed to him in MP so it must be the games fault. You sound like a broken record.

Rad Blackrose
09-19-2003, 03:05 PM
Gameplay exploits being overused at the expense of gaming satisfaction for the majority.

Let me laugh for a second... Pull kicking is an exploit?

Comm539
09-19-2003, 03:05 PM
I never commented on how good bad the removal of feauteres was for other game types. tw, s/o means saber only, not guns or blasters...just so you understand that man.

Seems you never pull kick, then please i invite you to name your clan. Lets see if anybodies heard of it and lets see if its successful. With no pks, the answer is a no. The pk's gk's ptk's weren't easy victories. With just a decent fc, and just an energiser or healer, things were extremely hard in JO. Now in JA, things are impossible. It's IMPOSSIBLE to kill someone who doesn't want to fight and runs away with merely a saber, even more so when they have a healer to. This is why the entire s/o ctf community is united to bring back the JO features for JA s/o ctf.

And barresm, i want to play JA, but i don't see why they had to deevolve the game becuase people couldn't compete with other players. Back to s/o ctf, the graphics and fanbase will move to JA. Thats why i want the JO feautres kept in JA, along with the new feauters...even if it is just for s/o ctf. At least give servers the option whether to turn the feauters oin or not.

Rumor
09-19-2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by MOTL Robinton
Honestly I could post a whole bunch of quotes from people here who have said poitive or negative things, but whats the point. In JO, my clan and I played all aspects of JO. So we are all familiar with what is needed and what isn't.

All you people complaining about pull kicks, pull throw kicks, ground kills, or whatever, have your view skewd from the fact that those moves ment easy kills and victories for you. Take this away and what do you have? A player with little talent on the saber and a pissed off additude. What you fail to realize is that all these moves developed by players to get easy kills forced the rest of us to either fall victim to them or use them ourselves. This seperates the community so greatly that we get stupid debates like this.

I mean, why do you think they removed these features anyways? Its not like they spun "the wheel of gameplay features" and where ever it stopped, thats what they got rid of. They recognized these things for what they are. Gameplay exploits being overused at the expense of gaming satisfaction for the majority.

This game was ment as a SABER COMBAT MULTIPLAYER GAME. It has a saber on the cover, not a blaster. The entire game is centered around using and getting better at the saber. If you really wanted a CTF game with guns and lame moves, go play CS.

When i played CTF, you know what i did? I tried everything, every option, to kill anyone with my saber and force skills and not use any moves like pull kick. Why would i do something like that you ask? Why would i limit myself to a set of skills that will inevitabley get me LESS kills than the average guy who runs around bunny hoping, waiting to land that perfect stream of pull kicks so the person can't even get off the ground or move before the next one comes? Hopefully you can see its a rehtorical question. Becuase the goal of the game was to get better at the saber. If my K/D ratio was 10/40, so what? At least I can say those 10 kills were made by my saber skills alone and not some ridiculous exploit.

Think of it like this: You in a movie theater and someone decides they can't see well enough. What do they do? Change seats? Ask the person in front of them to move a little? No, they stand up. The person behind them is like "What the **** man?!" and he stands up. Then a whole bunch of people who just wanted to sit and enjoy the movie are all FORCED to stand up cause they can't see anymore. Get it?

Please, just sit back and wait until Raven puts out the first patch. Did you really think it was going to be a perfect game for everyone out of the box? If you did your sadly dissalusioned. The devolpers will listen to your plee's and do what they think is in the public greatest opinion.

Flame me all you want but when it comes down to it, and your in a duel, who do you think is gonna win: The guy with unlimited skill with the saber, or the guy that used to win by using kick and grip as his primary weapons?

I'l see you out there.

ff/so duel. how do you kill? by using high damage combos. why? they can drain back any hit you land on them.

and it is about the saber AND the force.

i'm sure that if you played cs, then you would just use your knife so that you could limit yourself there, right?

competitive players play to WIN, not to limit themselves. if i play q3, i'm not going to use jsut the machine gun because the rocket launcher can kill in 1-2 hits or the bfg is a 1 hit kill, and therefore take less skill (haha yeah right, less skill my ass)

darth_michael
09-19-2003, 03:09 PM
i don't know why i'm even bothering to say this, but i will anyways:

i know nearly nothing about "hardcore" CTF, but two things in this argument jump out at me. first, some people are complaining that they can no longer kill a flag carrier who has a dedicated escort or two (or three). am i the only one who finds this reasonable? why should you be able to one-shot a guy who has three other guys protecting him? here's a novel idea... why don't YOU bring three guys with you when you go after him? do some man-to-man coverage, each of you taking care of one of the runners. seems simple enough to me.

second, i laughed out loud when i read the list of "cool moves" that are no longer possible in JA. in my book, kick wh0ring, pull kicking, grip kicking, no line of sight gripping, etc., are among the LAMEST moves ever devised in JK2. quite frankly, they ruined the game for me, along with stupid stuff like yawspeed scripting back in the early days. some of you tools like to call "n00b" on anyone who actually wants to play the damn game in the spirit of star wars (ie. "like the movies"). but tell me, wtf is wrong with that? why does that make them lame? if you ask me, YOU'RE the lame ones, reducing this game to a bunny-hopping rail-gunning quake fragfest that has nothing to do with the spirit of the game and everything to do with bending the rules to the point that the game itself gets abstracted away behind the act of spamming these stupid chump "combos" and hoping you hit them before they hit you. utter pointlessness.

thank god JA seems to have done away with that. i for one am sick of that style of play and the script kiddie mentality that goes along with it.

traj
09-19-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by cheeto101
well whoop de freakin doo, So you and your little clan buddies have to find a few new moves to win. Personally, i agree with every damn post prime has made,

I dont think half of those things they removed made ctf more complicated, i think they were a bunch of cheap damn tactics made up by a bunch of people who couldnt use the freakin sabers efficiently. Now imstead if just pullin and kickin someone off a ledge, you actually have to make some type of attempt to actually slow them down and get in their way, and maybe (gasp) work as a team to defend the flag.

If you were so good and elite as you claim to be, youd simply find new tactics instead of whining about the fact that your old tactics are gone.

This all sounds like you know what you're talking about. Of course anyone who actually DOES know what they're talking about would know that you don't know ****. It sounded cute though.

'Slow them down and get in their way'. rofl. Great idea. Try PLAYING CTF before you comment on it please.

Here comes the FC speeding at me. OK, i'll pull him to slow him down. **** he has absorb on I just gave him more force. Now he is jumping over me, I guess I'll pull him again. **** I just gave him more force. Maybe I'll try swinging my saber when he lands. **** he pushed me and sped off. I'd love to chase him, but my force is gone from the 2 pulls and the saber combo I tried on him so I have no force left for speed. I think I can hear the FC laughing all the way back to base. It's ok though, becaus my team's FC has just made an equally easy get away from my enemy's base. Now all we have to do is make sure he isn't stupid enough to walk into a kata, give him an energizer and a healer and we have our stalemate.

Sounds like fun!

Prime
09-19-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
yeah, the fault of those who bitched about it, and also the fault of us who did not let raven know that it was just fine as is (although i would have fixed a few things, like the physics and animations which were improved in 1.03 and 1.04) I agree completely. 1.02 was fine gameplay wise, and only bugs like the DFA collision detection and so on really needed fixing.

Originally posted by aXoe
The 1ST patch will come out in 1 month or 2 imo. I don't think that there is an garruntee that there will even be a patch. Raven took a pile of heat with the patches of JO, and they saw how it divided the community. I would think they would be much more hesitant to release a patch this time.

Originally posted by Comm539
All i ask is that the stuff JO had is maintained in JA ctf, along with whatever new stuff raven has implemented. I just hope that if those changes are once again added, that it is only to CTF. Personally, I don't want those thinks coming back to duels and FFAs. To each his own, I guess :)

Comm539
09-19-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by darth_michael
i don't know why i'm even bothering to say this, but i will anyways:

i know nearly nothing about "hardcore" CTF, but two things in this argument jump out at me. first, some people are complaining that they can no longer kill a flag carrier who has a dedicated escort or two (or three). am i the only one who finds this reasonable? why should you be able to one-shot a guy who has three other guys protecting him? here's a novel idea... why don't YOU bring three guys with you when you go after him? do some man-to-man coverage, each of you taking care of one of the runners. seems simple enough to me.

second, i laughed out loud when i read the list of "cool moves" that are no longer possible in JA. in my book, kick wh0ring, pull kicking, grip kicking, no line of sight gripping, etc., are among the LAMEST moves ever devised in JK2. quite frankly, they ruined the game for me, along with stupid stuff like yawspeed scripting back in the early days. some of you tools like to call "n00b" on anyone who actually wants to play the damn game in the spirit of star wars (ie. "like the movies"). but tell me, wtf is wrong with that? why does that make them lame? if you ask me, YOU'RE the lame ones, reducing this game to a bunny-hopping rail-gunning quake fragfest that has nothing to do with the spirit of the game and everything to do with bending the rules to the point that the game itself gets abstracted away behind the act of spamming these stupid chump "combos" and hoping you hit them before they hit you. utter pointlessness.

thank god JA seems to have done away with that. i for one am sick of that style of play and the script kiddie mentality that goes along with it.


sorry but im rofl. Just send 3 people after him. well duh, how come i never thought of that. You admitr yourself you know nothing about ctf so please don't comment and please under stand s/o = SABER ONLY not machine guns.

traj
09-19-2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by darth_michael

i know nearly nothing about "hardcore" CTF

exactly

Rumor
09-19-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Comm539
sorry but im rofl. Just send 3 people after him. well duh, how come i never thought of that. You admitr yourself you know nothing about ctf so please don't comment and please under stand s/o = SABER ONLY not machine guns.

yeah, why didn't i think of that myself :confused:

maybe its because there are usually more that go after the fc, than just three, but it only takes 2 escort to hold them off?

w1p
09-19-2003, 03:24 PM
well, honestly, everybody just STFU and read his post, coz thats EXACTLY what JA is about. SABERS. Tell me honestly now in a s/o CTF match between 2 HALF-DECENT clans, how many actual saber kills would there be? how many non-saber kills would there be? whats the point of SABER ONLY if your only gonna use it to block and throw at people? might aswell be SHIELD AND ROCK ONLY mode in that case.

BTW im one of those 'RPG' type people who actually LIKE a good saber BATTLE, not a quick frag whlie your runnin down the corridor, coz this aint CS or Q3 (thankfully).

The Force powers and all the acrobatic moves are meant to revolve around the saber battles, but instead there is no saber battle because the forcepowers and acrobatic moves take over. Im the sorta person who picks up the box and READS it and u know what i saw? LIGHTSABER BATTLES!! and thank god when i play Jedi Acadamy MP i actually HAVE a light saber battle. I dont need to run around with my hands ready to do a quick combo of moves to get an easy kill JUST so i can be top, or JUST so i can live for a few seconds more.

JA is what JO should have been. You people are frag whores and llama's, and you want a new name to the same old game so that you can keep on beating people who dont know how to pull of a cheap trick to get a frag.

I play these games for fun. If i win, then i win. If i dont, then i aint gonna blame the game because it wont let me be abuse it. If you dont like JA, dont try to have it changed so you do like it, stick with what you DO like.

Rumor
09-19-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by darth_michael

second, i laughed out loud when i read the list of "cool moves" that are no longer possible in JA. in my book, kick wh0ring, pull kicking, grip kicking, no line of sight gripping, etc., are among the LAMEST moves ever devised in JK2. quite frankly, they ruined the game for me, along with stupid stuff like yawspeed scripting back in the early days. some of you tools like to call "n00b" on anyone who actually wants to play the damn game in the spirit of star wars (ie. "like the movies"). but tell me, wtf is wrong with that? why does that make them lame? if you ask me, YOU'RE the lame ones, reducing this game to a bunny-hopping rail-gunning quake fragfest that has nothing to do with the spirit of the game and everything to do with bending the rules to the point that the game itself gets abstracted away behind the act of spamming these stupid chump "combos" and hoping you hit them before they hit you. utter pointlessness.

thank god JA seems to have done away with that. i for one am sick of that style of play and the script kiddie mentality that goes along with it.

obi-wan didn't bitch when maul killed qui-gon in waht would, in jk2/jk3, would be a "lamer move". he just kicked his ass and was done with it.

Rad Blackrose
09-19-2003, 03:25 PM
second, i laughed out loud when i read the list of "cool moves" that are no longer possible in JA. in my book, kick wh0ring, pull kicking, grip kicking, no line of sight gripping, etc., are among the LAMEST moves ever devised in JK2. quite frankly, they ruined the game for me, along with stupid stuff like yawspeed scripting back in the early days. some of you tools like to call "n00b" on anyone who actually wants to play the damn game in the spirit of star wars (ie. "like the movies"). but tell me, wtf is wrong with that? why does that make them lame? if you ask me, YOU'RE the lame ones, reducing this game to a bunny-hopping rail-gunning quake fragfest that has nothing to do with the spirit of the game and everything to do with bending the rules to the point that the game itself gets abstracted away behind the act of spamming these stupid chump "combos" and hoping you hit them before they hit you. utter pointlessness.

Jesus H Christ, the idiots and utterly CLUELESS are filing out of the woodwork.

Yeah, we're lame. We decided to use moves that actually made a dent in people, and not have it all drained back.

Bot no, instead of picking up on the moves, you decided to sit back and bitch like people did here in 1.02. And 1.03. And then 1.04 came and destroyed a few things, forcing us to use moves like the grip kick to be competitive.

Now it comes back in full circle, and therefore I relay this advice to you: STFU.

EDIT: By the ****ing way, we happen to be on the engine of a FPS, therefore this is an FPS game. If you don't understand what that means, uninstall JA and bury it right about... NOW. Within that respects, STFU as well. Bloody pissants, the lot of you.

Rumor
09-19-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by w1p
well, honestly, everybody just STFU and read his post, coz thats EXACTLY what JA is about. SABERS. Tell me honestly now in a s/o CTF match between 2 HALF-DECENT clans, how many actual saber kills would there be? how many non-saber kills would there be? whats the point of SABER ONLY if your only gonna use it to block and throw at people? might aswell be SHIELD AND ROCK ONLY mode in that case.

BTW im one of those 'RPG' type people who actually LIKE a good saber BATTLE, not a quick frag whlie your runnin down the corridor, coz this aint CS or Q3 (thankfully).

The Force powers and all the acrobatic moves are meant to revolve around the saber battles, but instead there is no saber battle because the forcepowers and acrobatic moves take over. Im the sorta person who picks up the box and READS it and u know what i saw? LIGHTSABER BATTLES!! and thank god when i play Jedi Acadamy MP i actually HAVE a light saber battle. I dont need to run around with my hands ready to do a quick combo of moves to get an easy kill JUST so i can be top, or JUST so i can live for a few seconds more.

JA is what JO should have been. You people are frag whores and llama's, and you want a new name to the same old game so that you can keep on beating people who dont know how to pull of a cheap trick to get a frag.

I play these games for fun. If i win, then i win. If i dont, then i aint gonna blame the game because it wont let me be abuse it. If you dont like JA, dont try to have it changed so you do like it, stick with what you DO like.

no, more like there is NO winning or losing with the competitive players in ff/so. it is just a ****ing deadlock unless someone is better at level 2 lightning/drain in duels.

Poison
09-19-2003, 03:37 PM
If this game isn't meant to give the player a quick frag, then how do you expect people to play CTF? or FFA, or TFFA?

If this game is meant to be for SABER ONLY battles, why did they bother to include CTF, FFA or TFFA as the choices of gameplay. Why not just make the only MP option dueling?

In s/o CTF how do you expect someone to kill the flag carrier if sabers don't do enough damage? With force powers like heal, team heal, and energize, it makes it EXTREMELY difficult.

traj
09-19-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by w1p
well, honestly, everybody just STFU and read his post, coz thats EXACTLY what JA is about. SABERS. Tell me honestly now in a s/o CTF match between 2 HALF-DECENT clans, how many actual saber kills would there be? how many non-saber kills would there be? whats the point of SABER ONLY if your only gonna use it to block and throw at people? might aswell be SHIELD AND ROCK ONLY mode in that case.

BTW im one of those 'RPG' type people who actually LIKE a good saber BATTLE, not a quick frag whlie your runnin down the corridor, coz this aint CS or Q3 (thankfully).

The Force powers and all the acrobatic moves are meant to revolve around the saber battles, but instead there is no saber battle because the forcepowers and acrobatic moves take over. Im the sorta person who picks up the box and READS it and u know what i saw? LIGHTSABER BATTLES!! and thank god when i play Jedi Acadamy MP i actually HAVE a light saber battle. I dont need to run around with my hands ready to do a quick combo of moves to get an easy kill JUST so i can be top, or JUST so i can live for a few seconds more.

JA is what JO should have been. You people are frag whores and llama's, and you want a new name to the same old game so that you can keep on beating people who dont know how to pull of a cheap trick to get a frag.

I play these games for fun. If i win, then i win. If i dont, then i aint gonna blame the game because it wont let me be abuse it. If you dont like JA, dont try to have it changed so you do like it, stick with what you DO like.

You obviously dont play FF/SO CTF, and if you had actually read the posts before yours you might see that were talking about FF S/O CTF and FF duels.

The force powers are meant to revolve around the saber battles? Who are you to say? Yoda and Dooku started with a force battle and then switched to sabers. I figured a RPG fanboy like you would know that, cmon.

You like saber battles? Great, try NF duels. They're just to your liking.

You like guns? Great, have a ball. The guns in the game are fine and fun.

You like Siege? Great, I hear its fun.

You like FFA? Great, more power to you.

You like FF/SO CTF or FF Duels? Sorry, you're ****ed.

You guys have all the things you need to make your particular online gaming experience in this game wirthwhile for you. We don't. Our game modes have been ruined and all we want is a couple of fixes. So spare me the cheap kill, exploit, generic, predictable newbie jibber jabber.

And Prime, why should we have to go back to JO? I want to play here because they have newer maps, nicer graphics, and a larger community. I just want to make sure that RAVEN hears from our side of the community this time around and not just the you know whos.

Maybe cvars will be able to fix all of this, I really hope so. But until then, they need to hear that they've made at least 2 game modes in JA worse than JO.

Not different, worse.

We just want to be able to play the game types that we enjoy. As it is now, playing them and enjoying them at the same time do not go hand in hand.

darth_michael
09-19-2003, 04:24 PM
who the hell are you people, and why are you so angry?

Rad Blackrose, you do realize that your last post was completely incoherent, right? if you're going to type out an angry rant like that, at least make it remotely understandable. i have no idea what you just said.

anyways, it's now obvious to me who i'm dealing with (in fact, i knew this before i even posted my last message. hence, my hesitance to post...), so i'm just going to short circuit the rest of this argument by saying this:

there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!) who don't give a rat's ass what the scoreboard says, and are more interested in the SPIRIT of the game itself. like some others have pointed out, i didn't buy a STAR WARS game to spam stupid ass one hit kill pseudo-moves that will net me kills as fast as possible. i bought a STAR WARS game because of the lightsabers and the acrobatics and whatnot. THAT's how i want to play. THAT's what makes JEDI KNIGHT unique among FPSs.

so the question in my mind is: why are YOU playing this game? from what i can tell, all you're interested in is discovering the path of least resistance to maximum kills. fine. but then doesn't it make more sense to go play quake and spam the spacebar while firing your railgun/rocket launcher at everything that moves? that's about as simple as it gets. PLUS, that's what quake was DESIGNED to be like! unlike in JK/JA, you're not contributing to the decay of the SPIRIT of the game when you play like that in quake. but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone. i don't know about you, but i didn't buy a STAR WARS game with LIGHTSABERS and BIG JUMPS to repeat the frigging quake experience. i was done playing quake-style games nearly a decade ago.

anyways, ultimately i'll reiterate what some guy said awhile back: CTF is "broken" now, in your minds. fine. since i don't play CTF, i don't care. but if it does need to be changed, i pray to christ that ONLY CTF gets changed, and that they leave everything else the same. i don't want game-sweeping changes that promote the playstyle you guys are talking about. so if they can't fix CTF in JA the way you want it without breaking everything else, then just stick to JK2 CTF and leave JA alone.

and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.

daemonjosh
09-19-2003, 04:28 PM
Holy crap. It's not like gk pk ptk pt and all that are invincible moves. They can be countered. And doing a kata is pretty much suicidal if you're playing against a decent player in a duel. You do your pretty kata, and walks behind you and starts slashing you in the ass. Duels are going to be waaaaay too long. "Oh look, I cut you with my saber." "Hey d00d, I just drained it all back." "Oh crap, you hit me, but I just drained it back too." "Hey, I have an idea, let's read a book while we're trying to finish our duel." I don't even want to think about chasing an fc in ff s/o ctf. I'd be praying for him to fall down a hole or something.

traj
09-19-2003, 04:37 PM
Wow, shame on us for using the moves that the developers put in the game to kill people who aren't smart/skilled enough to do it themselves or counter it.

Rad made perfect sense.

As long as they fix CTF and FF duel, I dont care about anything else. This has been my point the whole time. If you are a NF Duelist this thread is not here for you. No point in coming here to talk smack about us dirty, cheap, exploit players.

You want to play NF duels? Fine. If you like them the way they are, great.

OUR game mode is ****ed up. But you wouldn't know anything about it because you dont even play it. So don't bother posting.

Rumor
09-19-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by darth_michael
who the hell are you people, and why are you so angry?

Rad Blackrose, you do realize that your last post was completely incoherent, right? if you're going to type out an angry rant like that, at least make it remotely understandable. i have no idea what you just said.

anyways, it's now obvious to me who i'm dealing with (in fact, i knew this before i even posted my last message. hence, my hesitance to post...), so i'm just going to short circuit the rest of this argument by saying this:

there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!) who don't give a rat's ass what the scoreboard says, and are more interested in the SPIRIT of the game itself. like some others have pointed out, i didn't buy a STAR WARS game to spam stupid ass one hit kill pseudo-moves that will net me kills as fast as possible. i bought a STAR WARS game because of the lightsabers and the acrobatics and whatnot. THAT's how i want to play. THAT's what makes JEDI KNIGHT unique among FPSs.

so the question in my mind is: why are YOU playing this game? from what i can tell, all you're interested in is discovering the path of least resistance to maximum kills. fine. but then doesn't it make more sense to go play quake and spam the spacebar while firing your railgun/rocket launcher at everything that moves? that's about as simple as it gets. PLUS, that's what quake was DESIGNED to be like! unlike in JK/JA, you're not contributing to the decay of the SPIRIT of the game when you play like that in quake. but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone. i don't know about you, but i didn't buy a STAR WARS game with LIGHTSABERS and BIG JUMPS to repeat the frigging quake experience. i was done playing quake-style games nearly a decade ago.

anyways, ultimately i'll reiterate what some guy said awhile back: CTF is "broken" now, in your minds. fine. since i don't play CTF, i don't care. but if it does need to be changed, i pray to christ that ONLY CTF gets changed, and that they leave everything else the same. i don't want game-sweeping changes that promote the playstyle you guys are talking about. so if they can't fix CTF in JA the way you want it without breaking everything else, then just stick to JK2 CTF and leave JA alone.

and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.

to be brutally honest, we play saber only for a reason. its a huge (and pleasant) change in pace and gameplay compared to the other games we play. the force adds a whole nother dimension as well.

the only difference between us is the fact that we want to win as often as we can, and will use ALL the tools that we can. we do like the starwarsy ****, but we are more concerned that it is a fun experience, and gameplay is what makes a game fun, not the best darth maul skin or the dool of teh fatez maps (tho they are nice, just not primary concerns.)

Poison
09-19-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by darth_michael

there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!) who don't give a rat's ass what the scoreboard says, and are more interested in the SPIRIT of the game itself. like some others have pointed out, i didn't buy a STAR WARS game to spam stupid ass one hit kill pseudo-moves that will net me kills as fast as possible. i bought a STAR WARS game because of the lightsabers and the acrobatics and whatnot. THAT's how i want to play. THAT's what makes JEDI KNIGHT unique among FPSs.

so the question in my mind is: why are YOU playing this game? from what i can tell, all you're interested in is discovering the path of least resistance to maximum kills. fine. but then doesn't it make more sense to go play quake and spam the spacebar while firing your railgun/rocket launcher at everything that moves? that's about as simple as it gets. PLUS, that's what quake was DESIGNED to be like! unlike in JK/JA, you're not contributing to the decay of the SPIRIT of the game when you play like that in quake. but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone. i don't know about you, but i didn't buy a STAR WARS game with LIGHTSABERS and BIG JUMPS to repeat the frigging quake experience. i was done playing quake-style games nearly a decade ago.
Explain to me how a s/o CTF match is anything like a Quake CTF match? Why don't I go play quake? it doesn't have sabers or force powers, that's why. I play SABER ONLY, FULL FORCE CTF. If I wanted to shoot at people I would play Quake (or w/e). The point is we enjoy playing s/o ff CTF, which is not really possible anymore.


and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.

As I recall, someone did get kicked. Obi-Wan I believe. Ohh, but they put that kick into the game, so I guess its ok since it's in line with the movies.

Pyro
09-19-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by darth_michael


but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone.

instead you fanboys bitched and moaned all through outcast to the point that the devs actually listened to you, and took a game that had awesome and unique gameplay and turned it into mirc with a fancy gui



and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.

i also didn't see darth maul stand there for 10 seconds doing a kata or use drain. but that won't stop you from using them, right. btw, thank your for your expert move-by-move analysis of the final battle. if you really want to jump around doing acrobatics with a light saber, may i suggest you meet up with the star wars kid?

boinga1
09-19-2003, 05:00 PM
OK everyone. Calm down. That's right. Take 5 deep, slow breaths. Good. That's it. Just CALM DOWN. You people need to stop the flaming here, or several of you WILL be banned, and a mod WILL close this thread.

However, I must say: if you like this game for the Star Wars atmosphere it has, play SP. It's about STAR WARS, and saber battles. If you want WIN against OTHER PEOPLE then MP is for you. Please, if you like the STAR WARS feel, do not expect other people in MP to care about it. Most MP players want to win- myself included.

Rumor
09-19-2003, 05:04 PM
mods please don't close, people just need to vent. once they do they start being extremely constructive. (and i haven't seen anything that warrants a lock, yet)

ExcelsioN
09-19-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by boinga1
OK everyone. Calm down. That's right. Take 5 deep, slow breaths. Good. That's it. Just CALM DOWN. You people need to stop the flaming here, or several of you WILL be banned, and a mod WILL close this thread.

However, I must say: if you like this game for the Star Wars atmosphere it has, play SP. It's about STAR WARS, and saber battles. If you want WIN against OTHER PEOPLE then MP is for you. Please, if you like the STAR WARS feel, do not expect other people in MP to care about it. Most MP players want to win- myself included.

Well said.

If you wanna argue, take it to msn. This isnt the place for flaming.

I felt rather let down by the un-star wars feel of jk2. It just felt more like a q3 deathmatch or a game of counter-strike. Hopefully JA mp will be different.

kazesan
09-19-2003, 05:20 PM
This thread is out of control. First of all everyone calm down and second of all stop calling people n00bs since you got the game yesturday. Oh wait you "rented" it first.

I have played all gametypes for JA. They all seem fair. Heres an idea on how to catch an FC on FF CTF. Shoot him. Wow that is impossible. Use rage or speed and chase him. Once close enough shoot him with a strong gun.

Also it takes the FC longer on most maps to cap. If you played JA CTF you would notice. Bespin isn't in the game anymore so it is irrelevent. CTF is fair. If people can learn how to deal with enemies anyway.

Oh wait you play SO FF CTF. Well you suck then. If you have one person slowing the FC down the other person can promptly kill them with a staff or dual sabers or red stance. Pull stops absorb for a sec. In that sec you can swing and kill people. Not that hard. I think SO ctf is a bunch of crap anyway. All the strategy is gone. No proper defense, no proper assaults. Where are the snipers? Where are the intricate detpack and trip mine traps?

If you want to play SO FF do it in TFFA. Or you could find a REAL clan game and start playing siege.

Most of all stop complaining. Never expect anything from a game until you've played it. You really don't have a right or reason to badmouth a game because you don't like it.

Cupid
09-19-2003, 05:21 PM
Any person just starting the game was capable of countering those "lame" moves on the list it just had to be known what the counter for each move was. In any game, using your opponents ignorance against them is referred to as "skill." Is it our fault for using moves that were INTENDED to be used against other opponents.

Rumor
09-19-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by kazesan
This thread is out of control. First of all everyone calm down and second of all stop calling people n00bs since you got the game yesturday. Oh wait you "rented" it first.

I have played all gametypes for JA. They all seem fair. Heres an idea on how to catch an FC on FF CTF. Shoot him. Wow that is impossible. Use rage or speed and chase him. Once close enough shoot him with a strong gun.

Also it takes the FC longer on most maps to cap. If you played JA CTF you would notice. Bespin isn't in the game anymore so it is irrelevent. CTF is fair. If people can learn how to deal with enemies anyway.

Oh wait you play SO FF CTF. Well you suck then. If you have one person slowing the FC down the other person can promptly kill them with a staff or dual sabers or red stance. Pull stops absorb for a sec. In that sec you can swing and kill people. Not that hard. I think SO ctf is a bunch of crap anyway. All the strategy is gone. No proper defense, no proper assaults. Where are the snipers? Where are the intricate detpack and trip mine traps?

If you want to play SO FF do it in TFFA. Or you could find a REAL clan game and start playing siege.

Most of all stop complaining. Never expect anything from a game until you've played it. You really don't have a right or reason to badmouth a game because you don't like it.

stay out of the discussion if you know nothing about so/ctf, and have no desire to see it improved.

MOTL Robinton
09-19-2003, 07:35 PM
We're all 2 sides of the same coin here. People may have misconstrewd what i was trying to say. Most people who are upset about the loss of pull-kick, etc..... are most likely the people who are spamming it and when they found they couldn't use their ownly effective weapong, they freaked. And i don't mean that pull-kick ITSELF is an exploit, i mean that it is used as an exploit by those who spam and use during a 1 on 1 duel in an over excessive manner.

However, i completely understand the frustration of those, like Rumor i'm assuming, who use these attacks in a contructive manner that befits the game type (i.e. CTF).

The game is about using Force and Saber. Even though i don't use powers like drain or rage (I stay all light, all the time), I will not cry about it because these are features that belong in the game. Each force has a counter. Your being drained? maybe you should try using absorb. You like playing dark? then find some other way around it, like not getting drained.

In any case, my point was not to start another argument, but to end it and not to get a rise out of any pro/con kick people. There is nothing we can do about it now anyways until Raven decides to take action and start the patching. Until then, lets all try and remain civil about these kind of issues.

Prime
09-19-2003, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by w1p
BTW im one of those 'RPG' type people who actually LIKE a good saber BATTLE, not a quick frag whlie your runnin down the corridor, coz this aint CS or Q3 (thankfully).

I play these games for fun. If i win, then i win. If i dont, then i aint gonna blame the game because it wont let me be abuse it. If you dont like JA, dont try to have it changed so you do like it, stick with what you DO like. Great. You are certainly entitled to play the game the way and for the reasons you want. But don't expect everyone else to all cater to the way you want to play. Playing for competative reasons is just as valid as anything else. I play for fun, but I like to get frags too, since that is the point of the game, after all. Demanding people play a certain way is what led to all that saber down = peace nonsense. :)

Originally posted by Rumor
prime i like you and all, but please stay out of the ff/so ctf discussion. you have no clue. fc's do NOT do specials when they are capping, they just run. no attacks, just running. speed + absorb = 30 force when it runs out, so enough for more absorb or protect or even in a few seconds, speed. not to mention he will 9 times out of ten, have support of healers/energizers who will do the fighting. I know this was an earlier post, but I wanted to respond anyway :) I have admitted that indeed I do not know much about CTF. I originally got into this thread because I sounded to me like another rant that things were different, and so on. Once the discussion got more specific about CTF, and more people commented on seeing similar problems, I began to realize that I had made a mistake and that perhaps I really was commenting on something that I didn't have enough knowledge of, and that perhaps there really were issues with this gametype. There are still a few things that I disagree with, and I'm not yet convinced that there won't be new effective stretegies, but I am still trying to listen better to what they have to say. I admit that I jumped the gun, and will try to stay out of the CTF-specific debate. :)

Originally posted by traj
And Prime, why should we have to go back to JO? I want to play here because they have newer maps, nicer graphics, and a larger community. I just want to make sure that RAVEN hears from our side of the community this time around and not just the you know whos. I'm not saying you should go back to JO, I was asking why you don't (and you gave an answer). It just seemed to me that you guys are very unhappy with JA, and that JO is what you want. Playing with nicer graphics, new maps, and so is important too. But for the time being, you'll either have to increase the saber damage, decide that the nicer graphics and new maps are more important, or that the grip-kick, etc. is more important.

I can certainly understand why Raven wanted to get rid of those things. They set out to make a Star Wars game, and grip-kicking isn't a part of that (regardless of how effective it is). But certainly, they have to make sure that the gametypes are playable.

I have no problem with you expressing your views and trying to be heard. That is your perogative. But it is also my perogative to try to make sure that the things that I like about the game are not altered. I am very happy with JA right now, and after JO I am very fearful about the release of patches. IMO they have done more harm than good. Personally, I like this game because of the Star Wars elements, and I was somewhat turned off that the JO became a grip-kick fest. I recognize that competative players are going to use any means necessary, and that's fine. But I guess I was dissappointed that the best means turned out to be grip-kick (or any of the others). I'd rather have the lightsaber be the most effective thing for sabers-only games. Do you see what I'm saying? I am no longer trying to argue about CTF issues, because I realize that perhaps I do not know enough to comment. But I will try and defend my point of view :)

Originally posted by traj
Maybe cvars will be able to fix all of this, I really hope so. But until then, they need to hear that they've made at least 2 game modes in JA worse than JO. I think it is definitely worth trying to go down that avenue than putting grip-kick, etc. back in via patch. If sabers were a one hit kill, would that make things much better, and would it be a reasonable alternative?

Comm539
09-19-2003, 08:20 PM
I don't understand why people are arguing. Its clear that the entire ctf community is in uproar about how features have been ripped out of a so called sequel.
You all seem very happy with whats been done for your respective gamemodes and for that be greatful. All we ask is that our gamemode, s/o ctf is fixed to encoperate the features in jk2. It'd jjust need a patch, perhaps bring back the features and mae them selectable by the server as to whether they'll use them. All the people who don't play ctf, this doesn't concern you and I don't understand why your arguing against the will of the entire ctf community about a gamemode you know little about. All we ask is a patch that won't effect your modes, or can have some of the feauures from jo turned on, if you choose. Whats so wrong with that?

The new ctf maps are in one word, HUGE. You all say 'oh this is saber combat' and w/e. But no, this is ctf. Flag carriers don't stand around whilst the attackers make an orderly queue to duel him, with the carriers team stood around watching merrily. The carrier is a guy who doesn't want to be killed AT ALL COSTS. This means if he gotta run like hell and not fight a sole for the entire nmatch, thats what he'll do. In addition, any damage caused whilst he's running around is countered by healers and energizers.
So you see, gk, pk, ptk rage dfa were ways to stop the carrier, or kill before a healer can heal. The point we make is now these are gone, theres no way to stop a flag carrier who's running, and no way to kill them before someone heals. Your 'saber combat' all sounds very honourable, but you have to remeber this is ctf.
I have to add that cvars saber damae isn't a good alternative. Make sabers one/two hit kill and the fc never fights EVER. With no way to stop him running (no pk etc) the games stalemate. Only by pull whoring and thus charging up the fc's force (with absorb) on can he be slowed, but you just gave him enough force to speed off again.
Leave sabers weak and healers heal in time.

I hope you understand why we're complaining a littlee clearer.

traj
09-19-2003, 08:26 PM
Well, I could respond to this but I think a better idea for you Prime would be to check out the new thread posted this afternoon by Wiener Dog called 'A serious Discussion of MP Problems' (or something like that).

He really gives a good overview of the problems we're talking about here. Check it out.

The rest of you who have no interest in FF SO/CTF or FF Duels, please stay out of this discussion. It does not concern you.

JaledDur
09-19-2003, 08:31 PM
"Oh boy..."

-Sam Beckett

Doctor Shaft
09-19-2003, 09:16 PM
Sigh... and so it begins. My misgivings about buying the game have begun just as I have forseen. Arguing, arguing, arguing.

To be honest, I enjoy arguing a lot. I like competitive gamers. I'm not one myself, but when a real gamer, a guy on a real clan, who actually CAN play the exceptionally well, come on the forums and make a comment, I tend to hold my own ego and listen.

So far, the discussion has been two sides, and unfortunately one side is informed about the matter and the other half is full of people with lots of ego, tons of anger, and little sense.

Let's all calm down and break down the points of both sides.

Side One: Sabers-Only CTF clans

They want their game improved. The sabers are weak (just as I predicted they would be), the saber blocking is once again both random and highly effective, and once again most of the force powers have little use against force speed and absorb.

The S/O clans are saying that the nature of their game, which DOES NOT INCLUDE GUNS (so many posts here that said "just shoot em"....) does not mesh well with JA! At all! If a guy wants to run away with the flag, it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP HIM! The end!! that's it!! Don't provide these guys tips on how to win!!! You don't know!!!! They do!!! Sigh... reading the replies to these guys posts has been exasperating.... I don't even play the game type, yet I can immediately comprehend and predict what they're saying. They're analysis is both intelligent and well said. They are not simply saying "OMG, h4x!".


Side Two: Everyone else

:bdroid2: <-------- that's you!!! You're battle droids. Here's an example of unintelligent comments made on this forum.

"You guys suck, you only care about scores"
Unfortunately, dear sir, S/O CTF has little to do with personal scoring because you need to CAP FIRST!!!! Who cares if I kill Tim and Bob with kick, it doesn't matter unless I cap the flag, now does it? It's a teamplay game, and has a lot more variables and complications than the typical Duel and FFA or TFFA, which is based SOLELY on personal kill scores. Ironically, that's the game type that YOU play. And don't try to tell me that you don't like winning.... These guys happen to have their fun by capping flags and winning. However, they currently can't even KILL each other. Sigh....

"JA is a different game, it's based on saber combat... aka kicks and quick kill moves are out"

Once again, these guys just got done explaining to you how dueling barely matters in S/O CTF. If you have to cap the flag, WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU DUEL?!?!? Yes, I'm sure there are new methods and techniques in JA that we will all develop in order to become better saberists. Until then, S/O needs new options that allow them to do just that. If you can't ENGAGE the guy in a duel, and he's being healed and energized every three seconds, and your saber does puny damage, and the guy decides to just run away, what are you supposed to do now?!? On top of that, even if your saber did reasonable damage, how are the opposing team members supposed to get this guy to engage them, if he just concentrates on escape? They can't REALLY STOP HIM!! If they can't kick the guy down, and he sets his absorb, push/pull defense up just right, it's just not going to happen. No amount of infinite saber skill and combos is going to stop this, because no one is really trying to engage in long duels. Result... STALEMATE.

"You suck for playing SO CTF"

... does anyone even really need to reply to this kind of remark? This has NOTHING to do with the discussion. These serious players did not come onto this forum saying "you all suck for playing FFA/Siege/anything else". Not one crack was taken. They could careless about your game type (at the moment anyway). They just want their gametype to be salvagable, but all you could think of was a corny flame.

In the end, the other side of the coin has generally been WORTHLESS in the discussion, minus two or three people. There were so few constructive replies to the S/O concerns here, I can't even remember which ones they were.

I was actually INTERESTED in what the S/O clans had to say here. They obviously play the game meticulously, and they voiced a concern. As usual, the JO/JA community comes in with a massive spam fest, half the posters not even reading the previous posts, and only two or three people taking part in a DISCUSSION, rather than "it's a new game, you suck, get out".

And please, stop trying the old skool S/O CTF clans how to play their specialty game type. Especially when you don't play it yourself. Once again, I'm not targetting specific people, but some of the posts were just completely uninformed. Being wrong is one thing... being wrong and cocky about it is another. You know who you are.

And finally, it's ironic that everyone is backlashing on these poor guys. They want to change something for their gametype, and the whole community comes to arms... but in the early days, when people didn't like the fact that they died to fast in Duels, it was a different story. I wish I could go back in time and give you a dose of the same treatment you give the S/O CTF clans. It would be nice to read the reactions.

Doctor Shaft
09-19-2003, 09:21 PM
Sigh... and so it begins. My misgivings about buying the game have begun just as I have forseen. Arguing, arguing, arguing.

To be honest, I enjoy arguing a lot. I like competitive gamers. I'm not one myself, but when a real gamer, a guy on a real clan, who actually CAN play the exceptionally well, come on the forums and make a comment, I tend to hold my own ego and listen.

So far, the discussion has been two sides, and unfortunately one side is informed about the matter and the other half is full of people with lots of ego, tons of anger, and little sense.

Let's all calm down and break down the points of both sides.

Side One: Sabers-Only CTF clans

They want their game improved. The sabers are weak (just as I predicted they would be), the saber blocking is once again both random and highly effective, and once again most of the force powers have little use against force speed and absorb.

The S/O clans are saying that the nature of their game, which DOES NOT INCLUDE GUNS (so many posts here that said "just shoot em"....) does not mesh well with JA! At all! If a guy wants to run away with the flag, it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP HIM! The end!! that's it!! Don't provide these guys tips on how to win!!! You don't know!!!! They do!!! Sigh... reading the replies to these guys posts has been exasperating.... I don't even play the game type, yet I can immediately comprehend and predict what they're saying. They're analysis is both intelligent and well said. They are not simply saying "OMG, h4x!".


Side Two: Everyone else

:bdroid2: <-------- that's you!!! You're battle droids. Here's an example of unintelligent comments made on this forum.

"You guys suck, you only care about scores"
Unfortunately, dear sir, S/O CTF has little to do with personal scoring because you need to CAP FIRST!!!! Who cares if I kill Tim and Bob with kick, it doesn't matter unless I cap the flag, now does it? It's a teamplay game, and has a lot more variables and complications than the typical Duel and FFA or TFFA, which is based SOLELY on personal kill scores. Ironically, that's the game type that YOU play. And don't try to tell me that you don't like winning.... These guys happen to have their fun by capping flags and winning. However, they currently can't even KILL each other. Sigh....

"JA is a different game, it's based on saber combat... aka kicks and quick kill moves are out"

Once again, these guys just got done explaining to you how dueling barely matters in S/O CTF. If you have to cap the flag, WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU DUEL?!?!? Yes, I'm sure there are new methods and techniques in JA that we will all develop in order to become better saberists. Until then, S/O needs new options that allow them to do just that. If you can't ENGAGE the guy in a duel, and he's being healed and energized every three seconds, and your saber does puny damage, and the guy decides to just run away, what are you supposed to do now?!? On top of that, even if your saber did reasonable damage, how are the opposing team members supposed to get this guy to engage them, if he just concentrates on escape? They can't REALLY STOP HIM!! If they can't kick the guy down, and he sets his absorb, push/pull defense up just right, it's just not going to happen. No amount of infinite saber skill and combos is going to stop this, because no one is really trying to engage in long duels. Result... STALEMATE.

"You suck for playing SO CTF"

... does anyone even really need to reply to this kind of remark? This has NOTHING to do with the discussion. These serious players did not come onto this forum saying "you all suck for playing FFA/Siege/anything else". Not one crack was taken. They could careless about your game type (at the moment anyway). They just want their gametype to be salvagable, but all you could think of was a corny flame.

In the end, the other side of the coin has generally been WORTHLESS in the discussion, minus two or three people. There were so few constructive replies to the S/O concerns here, I can't even remember which ones they were.

I was actually INTERESTED in what the S/O clans had to say here. They obviously play the game meticulously, and they voiced a concern. As usual, the JO/JA community comes in with a massive spam fest, half the posters not even reading the previous posts, and only two or three people taking part in a DISCUSSION, rather than "it's a new game, you suck, get out".

And please, stop trying the old skool S/O CTF clans how to play their specialty game type. Especially when you don't play it yourself. Once again, I'm not targetting specific people, but some of the posts were just completely uninformed. Being wrong is one thing... being wrong and cocky about it is another. You know who you are.

And finally, it's ironic that everyone is backlashing on these poor guys. They want to change something for their gametype, and the whole community comes to arms... but in the early days, when people didn't like the fact that they died to fast in Duels, it was a different story. I wish I could go back in time and give you a dose of the same treatment you give the S/O CTF clans. It would be nice to read the reactions.

Comm539
09-19-2003, 11:08 PM
I think thats the most intelligent post i've read all day ;)
We don't care about the other gametypes, keep things as they are (if they like them), we just want the option for JO features reimplemented (for ctf) for the obvious reasons already mentioned.

[fk]mediablitz
09-19-2003, 11:18 PM
I'm still laughing my ass off at the guy who said he loved siege because it made him feel like he was really a stormtrooper

[fk]mediablitz
09-19-2003, 11:29 PM
Let's get to the heart of this matter. Saber Only CTF in JK2 was never a very respected gametype. Even at the end, when Diverse and =X= servers were basically full at all times (hell diverse server is still full basically 24/7) it got no respect from the ladder sponsers. Take that last ladder we did, we had to basically prove we could get teams together before they would even host a saberonly ctf tournament (it should be noted that none of the other competitive communities had enough interest to get any of the other ladders going, that includes NF saber dueling, while the s/o CTF community had a basically full ladder of competitive teams). When Raven thinks CTF, they think guns. Look at the new ladders for JA. There are NO s/o CTF ladders our tournaments. Raven could care less about the small s/o CTF community.

Full Force dueling is clearly a joke in JA, and I can't be bothered to point out the obvious reasons, since they have been stated quite well by others. But this, as well, was a small and little recognized part of the community. Raven is just going where the cash is, and that's with the nf saber newbies. Let's face it, they do make up about 80% of the player base.

C'jais
09-19-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by traj
The rest of you who have no interest in FF SO/CTF or FF Duels, please stay out of this discussion. It does not concern you.

Drop the condescending tone, right now.

Everyone can reply to this thread, no matter what you, or your comrades say.


Yes, I can see the s/o CTF gametype has been hurt, but that's no excuse to pour vitriol on bystanders and their comments.

You don't like JA, fine. Your loss, not ours.

[fk]mediablitz
09-19-2003, 11:40 PM
uh...stfu choir boy

ic0n
09-19-2003, 11:44 PM
kickfest? laugh. just cause you are too uncoordinated and sluggish to pull off a kick, dont hate on it. face it. you suck.

you have obviously only played ffa, as well. you dont understand how kick is needed for ctf.

oh btw roll stab ownz joo.

[fk]mediablitz
09-19-2003, 11:47 PM
i'm bored of nancy boy admins and their nut sucking parade of newbies

ic0n
09-19-2003, 11:47 PM
amen.

mr2turbo
09-19-2003, 11:55 PM
i was waiting for someone to point that out mediablitz. we all know its all about the benjamins, raven is just doing what they do best, making games to make them money, simple as that.

from an ff dueler's standpoint, i dont think anyone has hammered the point down that another reason we all liked the combo type moves in JO is because they added another element of skill to the game. if the game is reduced to simple saber acrobatiks then there is no skill involved, anyone can go to gamefaqs.com in a month and master the game in 2 hours. there was so much to think about in FF dueling, such as position, force management, opponent analyzation, etc....which is why even someone who knew how to ptk, pk, and gk flawlessly would still lose 10-0 to a true expert. this is what seperates the master from the above-average player, this is the esence of competition, and when your a competitive person you want to do what it takes to win. when the game takes utterly no skill to play like JA SO/FF, then the competition dies and you become frustrated which in time = dead community.

Rumor
09-20-2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by mr2turbo
i was waiting for someone to point that out mediablitz. we all know its all about the benjamins, raven is just doing what they do best, making games to make them money, simple as that.

from an ff dueler's standpoint, i dont think anyone has hammered the point down that another reason we all liked the combo type moves in JO is because they added another element of skill to the game. if the game is reduced to simple saber acrobatiks then there is no skill involved, anyone can go to gamefaqs.com in a month and master the game in 2 hours. there was so much to think about in FF dueling, such as position, force management, opponent analyzation, etc....which is why even someone who knew how to ptk, pk, and gk flawlessly would still lose 10-0 to a true expert. this is what seperates the master from the above-average player, this is the esence of competition, and when your a competitive person you want to do what it takes to win. when the game takes utterly no skill to play like JA SO/FF, then the competition dies and you become frustrated which in time = dead community.

damn good post. 100% agreement.

Rumor
09-20-2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
Drop the condescending tone, right now.

Everyone can reply to this thread, no matter what you, or your comrades say.


Yes, I can see the s/o CTF gametype has been hurt, but that's no excuse to pour vitriol on bystanders and their comments.

You don't like JA, fine. Your loss, not ours.

why is it that when one of us posts in a rpg thread that everyone comes down on us, not them when they start flaming before us, but when we have a thread about what WE play, WE get the short end of the stick from the admins, not to mention the players who play other gametypes?

why is it that when we try to play, our sexuality, heritage, intelligence, and parentage , not to mention many other things, so you may be a bit more understanding as to why our e-tones are sharp as a razor. we've been harassed for a year and a half for simply playing the game, and if it had been real life, the people would have been put in jail for doing such things.

and please, keep the condesencing tones to a minimum, sir.

Rumor
09-20-2003, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
Sigh... and so it begins. My misgivings about buying the game have begun just as I have forseen. Arguing, arguing, arguing.

To be honest, I enjoy arguing a lot. I like competitive gamers. I'm not one myself, but when a real gamer, a guy on a real clan, who actually CAN play the exceptionally well, come on the forums and make a comment, I tend to hold my own ego and listen.

So far, the discussion has been two sides, and unfortunately one side is informed about the matter and the other half is full of people with lots of ego, tons of anger, and little sense.

Let's all calm down and break down the points of both sides.

Side One: Sabers-Only CTF clans

They want their game improved. The sabers are weak (just as I predicted they would be), the saber blocking is once again both random and highly effective, and once again most of the force powers have little use against force speed and absorb.

The S/O clans are saying that the nature of their game, which DOES NOT INCLUDE GUNS (so many posts here that said "just shoot em"....) does not mesh well with JA! At all! If a guy wants to run away with the flag, it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP HIM! The end!! that's it!! Don't provide these guys tips on how to win!!! You don't know!!!! They do!!! Sigh... reading the replies to these guys posts has been exasperating.... I don't even play the game type, yet I can immediately comprehend and predict what they're saying. They're analysis is both intelligent and well said. They are not simply saying "OMG, h4x!".


Side Two: Everyone else

:bdroid2: <-------- that's you!!! You're battle droids. Here's an example of unintelligent comments made on this forum.

"You guys suck, you only care about scores"
Unfortunately, dear sir, S/O CTF has little to do with personal scoring because you need to CAP FIRST!!!! Who cares if I kill Tim and Bob with kick, it doesn't matter unless I cap the flag, now does it? It's a teamplay game, and has a lot more variables and complications than the typical Duel and FFA or TFFA, which is based SOLELY on personal kill scores. Ironically, that's the game type that YOU play. And don't try to tell me that you don't like winning.... These guys happen to have their fun by capping flags and winning. However, they currently can't even KILL each other. Sigh....

"JA is a different game, it's based on saber combat... aka kicks and quick kill moves are out"

Once again, these guys just got done explaining to you how dueling barely matters in S/O CTF. If you have to cap the flag, WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU DUEL?!?!? Yes, I'm sure there are new methods and techniques in JA that we will all develop in order to become better saberists. Until then, S/O needs new options that allow them to do just that. If you can't ENGAGE the guy in a duel, and he's being healed and energized every three seconds, and your saber does puny damage, and the guy decides to just run away, what are you supposed to do now?!? On top of that, even if your saber did reasonable damage, how are the opposing team members supposed to get this guy to engage them, if he just concentrates on escape? They can't REALLY STOP HIM!! If they can't kick the guy down, and he sets his absorb, push/pull defense up just right, it's just not going to happen. No amount of infinite saber skill and combos is going to stop this, because no one is really trying to engage in long duels. Result... STALEMATE.

"You suck for playing SO CTF"

... does anyone even really need to reply to this kind of remark? This has NOTHING to do with the discussion. These serious players did not come onto this forum saying "you all suck for playing FFA/Siege/anything else". Not one crack was taken. They could careless about your game type (at the moment anyway). They just want their gametype to be salvagable, but all you could think of was a corny flame.

In the end, the other side of the coin has generally been WORTHLESS in the discussion, minus two or three people. There were so few constructive replies to the S/O concerns here, I can't even remember which ones they were.

I was actually INTERESTED in what the S/O clans had to say here. They obviously play the game meticulously, and they voiced a concern. As usual, the JO/JA community comes in with a massive spam fest, half the posters not even reading the previous posts, and only two or three people taking part in a DISCUSSION, rather than "it's a new game, you suck, get out".

And please, stop trying the old skool S/O CTF clans how to play their specialty game type. Especially when you don't play it yourself. Once again, I'm not targetting specific people, but some of the posts were just completely uninformed. Being wrong is one thing... being wrong and cocky about it is another. You know who you are.

And finally, it's ironic that everyone is backlashing on these poor guys. They want to change something for their gametype, and the whole community comes to arms... but in the early days, when people didn't like the fact that they died to fast in Duels, it was a different story. I wish I could go back in time and give you a dose of the same treatment you give the S/O CTF clans. It would be nice to read the reactions.

thank you for the exellent and informed post.

{DHU}Screed
09-20-2003, 12:53 AM
Ok heres my 2 cents.

Turbo, I really couldnt have said it better myself.

I have played all gametypes for JA. They all seem fair. Heres an idea on how to catch an FC on FF CTF. Shoot him.

Obviously you didnt read any of the posts.... Were talking about FF/SO (thats Full Force Saber Only) Capture the Flag, and FF/SO Duel.

there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!)

Ok...... Immerse yourself into an actual star wars RPG like Galaxies, dont come into a FPS and try to play it like an RPG.

The sad truth is Media is right, Raven cares only for the majority, but were not asking them to change what the majority like. Were asking them to change a style of gameplay that we like.

FF/SO CTF is a joke as it stands for all of the above reasons. Its 1 giant stale mate.

ic0n
09-20-2003, 01:20 AM
face it, ladies. JA is rpg candy. plain and simple. we're going to have to make the best of it, because the jk2 community is going to die out. we're just going to have to grin and bear it, and hopefully everything will come out allright.
oh, ps, for all of you that like the katas and special slowmo moves or whatever have a *cough* darth rpg *cough cough* great time with that.

Prime
09-20-2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by mr2turbo
i was waiting for someone to point that out mediablitz. we all know its all about the benjamins, raven is just doing what they do best, making games to make them money, simple as that. Of course. Why else would they make games? :)

{DHU}Screed
09-20-2003, 01:44 AM
Companies like Raven have only shown me that they make games for money.

Companies like Blizzard make QUALITY games for money and work on fixing their flaws rather than giving up on them.

Raven gave up on Outcast after 1.04.

Blizzard is still making patches for ALL of their games, even really old ones such as Diablo or the Original War Craft etc....

Half the reason Outcast died is b/c Raven gave up on fixing and enhancing it. Instead they moved into the opposite direction with it. Making it worst/making more bugs.

It's not always about the benjamins is what im trying to say. You create a large and very loyal fanbase by always fixing and enhancing, not reaching a point of mediocraty and calling it quits, like Raven did with Outcast. Multiplayer games always need patching.

Hell even CounterStrike is still releasing patches and thats...how old?

ic0n
09-20-2003, 02:08 AM
gave up on jk2? no they made ja. douche bagel.

{DHU}Screed
09-20-2003, 02:11 AM
So... Blizzard made WarCraft 3 but their still patching WarCraft 2.

They gave up on Outcast.

ic0n
09-20-2003, 02:13 AM
no... i dont think you get it. They made JA to replace outcast. they thought JA would be outcast plus plus, but they decided to take suggestions from "Darth RPG" and "Luke Skywanker", and ban the real pros from the jk2 community. ggfu.

[fk]mediablitz
09-20-2003, 02:26 AM
The main thing JA will do is further seperate the community. Take JK2, where at least BaseJK was better then any of those lame ass mods. Not so with JA. BaseJA is tailored for the rpg darth mauls, and i'd say anyone who wants some skill involved will probably turn to adjusting their server settings. So eventually we will have 500 servers with all different settings, and very little common ground. Ladders will slowly die because each group plays the game differently. Maybe i'm wrong, who knows

mikeyjuan
09-20-2003, 02:32 AM
Yah yah... Agree'd media... Game will have less servers then jk2 does ... my estimate in 2 months.

Raven tried to make "everyone" happy -- and you damn well know u can't please them em all. So now just about everyone is far less then satisfied with the game instead of just a few groups being unhappy. Hopefully they decide who to make happy in the next 30 days so i can take the CD back.. GG; bring on UT2k4

ic0n
09-20-2003, 02:34 AM
they quite obviously didnt try to make everyone happy, because its a little too obvious who this game is tailored to.

BigFurryWhale
09-20-2003, 03:19 AM
Hi. I play so/ctf/ and I would like to make it clear i am NOT here to flame or call anyone "n00bs". I am simply here to ask the game developers to fix a few things with my beloved game type. I would like to see the kick, force combos, and overall force usefullness increased.


Thank you.


ps vgfstfugtfoffsgffu

[fk]mediablitz
09-20-2003, 03:26 AM
Hi. I play so/ctf/ and I would like to make it clear i am here to flame and call everyone "n00bs".

BigFurryWhale
09-20-2003, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by [fk]mediablitz
Hi. I play so/ctf/ and I would like to make it clear i am here to flame and call everyone "n00bs".

lol media, whatever floats your boat ;)

Prime
09-20-2003, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by {DHU}Screed
Companies like Raven have only shown me that they make games for money. That is the primary concern certainly, which does not make them evil, it means they are trying to put food on the table. Much as they like working on games, no one is going to work for free :) Also, Raven is a contactor to Lucasarts in this case. They are given a set budget and guidelines (like "we want a hardcore online game" or "we want a Jedi game that can be enjoyed by the casual gamer") by LA, and they try to make the best game they can with the specified budget. They have freedom to work within that framework, but they also have restrictions.

Originally posted by {DHU}Screed
Raven gave up on Outcast after 1.04. Actually, they did nothing of the sort. As the contractor it was not Raven's decision in the first place to make patches for JO. It was Lucasarts. Raven could go to Lucasarts and suggest that a patch is needed, but it is up to LA to say yes or no, and most importantly, provide the money for Raven to do it. Besides, it would be illegal to continue to work on the game without Lucasarts permission.

Originally posted by {DHU}Screed
Half the reason Outcast died is b/c Raven gave up on fixing and enhancing it. The reason Lucasarts decided to to stop putting out patches was because it already had Raven working on JA. Again, Lucasarts has a finite budget for JO and JA, and Raven only has a certain number of developers and resources. They couldn't both continually put out patches and complete JA at the same time.

Originally posted by {DHU}Screed
It's not always about the benjamins is what im trying to say. And if you look at the Raven dev reviews and diaries, you will see that most of them absolutely loved working on this game. For them it wasn't all about the money. The fact that there were no patches after 1.04 has nothing to do with their love of JO (or JA for that matter).

Originally posted by {DHU}Screed
You create a large and very loyal fanbase by always fixing and enhancing But that isn't the only way to build a loyal fanbase. You can also build it by making a great game or series of games. Would you agree that the number of games out there that are constantly updated is relatively few? But yet there are many series that have a loyal fan base. The JK series is obviously one that is loved, even after JO, and likely will be after JA (I'm including both SP and MP). You can decide for yourself whether this loyalty to Raven and LA is warranted, and whether you want to support their games.

Originally posted by {DHU}Screed
not reaching a point of mediocraty and calling it quits, like Raven did with Outcast. You are certainly entitled to you opinion that JO was mediocre, and there are legitimate problems with it. But judging by the general fan response (especially SP) and the glowing reviews, I think Raven was probably pretty happy the way it turned out, and it is probably safe to say to a lot of people JO was a big success. Both sales-wise and response-wise, JO is one of the better games out there.

Originally posted by {DHU}Screed
Multiplayer games always need patching. It is always great for games to be improved, but at some point companies have to decide to move on and spend their finite dollars on something else. In this case, LA decided to focus its money on JA. Personally, I'm happy they did :)

noide
09-20-2003, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by kazesan
This thread is out of control. First of all everyone calm down and second of all stop calling people n00bs since you got the game yesturday. Oh wait you "rented" it first.

I have played all gametypes for JA. They all seem fair. Heres an idea on how to catch an FC on FF CTF. Shoot him. Wow that is impossible. Use rage or speed and chase him. Once close enough shoot him with a strong gun.

Also it takes the FC longer on most maps to cap. If you played JA CTF you would notice. Bespin isn't in the game anymore so it is irrelevent. CTF is fair. If people can learn how to deal with enemies anyway.

Oh wait you play SO FF CTF. Well you suck then. If you have one person slowing the FC down the other person can promptly kill them with a staff or dual sabers or red stance. Pull stops absorb for a sec. In that sec you can swing and kill people. Not that hard. I think SO ctf is a bunch of crap anyway. All the strategy is gone. No proper defense, no proper assaults. Where are the snipers? Where are the intricate detpack and trip mine traps?

If you want to play SO FF do it in TFFA. Or you could find a REAL clan game and start playing siege.

Most of all stop complaining. Never expect anything from a game until you've played it. You really don't have a right or reason to badmouth a game because you don't like it.

shoot them with a gun in s/o ctf? wtf... gtfo
if you ever played competively in s/o ctf you'd know there is detailed strats, defences, positions, capping routes, etc. so stfu
"play a real clan game"? fu tool

mikeyjuan
09-20-2003, 04:37 AM
We are talking in regards to this game as a Saber Only Full Force game. Not guns. There is no possible way to kill someone who doesn't want to die in jk:a

ic0n
09-20-2003, 04:43 AM
this thread is turning into a ****ing preschool. peace rums, alex, bfw, media.

ic0n
09-20-2003, 04:44 AM
oh. one last remark. i love how you guys think you are totally mature and have the most valid points because you speak in perfect grammar and spellcheck your posts. ggfu nubsacks.

noide
09-20-2003, 04:54 AM
who you referring to.
no reason to be angry.
that guys post was just retarded.
"shoot them with a strong gun" i mean WTF

Jello123
09-20-2003, 06:16 AM
doctor shaft for president

shaft knows his stuff

scarlet
09-20-2003, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by darth_michael
who the hell are you people, and why are you so angry?

anyways, it's now obvious to me who i'm dealing with (in fact, i knew this before i even posted my last message. hence, my hesitance to post...), so i'm just going to short circuit the rest of this argument by saying this:

there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!) who don't give a rat's ass what the scoreboard says, and are more interested in the SPIRIT of the game itself. like some others have pointed out, i didn't buy a STAR WARS game to spam stupid ass one hit kill pseudo-moves that will net me kills as fast as possible. i bought a STAR WARS game because of the lightsabers and the acrobatics and whatnot. THAT's how i want to play. THAT's what makes JEDI KNIGHT unique among FPSs.

so the question in my mind is: why are YOU playing this game? from what i can tell, all you're interested in is discovering the path of least resistance to maximum kills. fine. but then doesn't it make more sense to go play quake and spam the spacebar while firing your railgun/rocket launcher at everything that moves? that's about as simple as it gets. PLUS, that's what quake was DESIGNED to be like! unlike in JK/JA, you're not contributing to the decay of the SPIRIT of the game when you play like that in quake. but when you bitch and moan in JA to the point that the devs actually listen to you, you take a game that had an awesome, unique premise to begin with and turn it in to another quake/UT spamfest clone. i don't know about you, but i didn't buy a STAR WARS game with LIGHTSABERS and BIG JUMPS to repeat the frigging quake experience. i was done playing quake-style games nearly a decade ago.

anyways, ultimately i'll reiterate what some guy said awhile back: CTF is "broken" now, in your minds. fine. since i don't play CTF, i don't care. but if it does need to be changed, i pray to christ that ONLY CTF gets changed, and that they leave everything else the same. i don't want game-sweeping changes that promote the playstyle you guys are talking about. so if they can't fix CTF in JA the way you want it without breaking everything else, then just stick to JK2 CTF and leave JA alone.

and, incidentally, maybe we saw different movies, but when that forcefield came down, i didn't see Darth Maul flip-kick Qui Gon 20 times intil he fell down, and then DFA his prone body or knock him off the edge. i saw a "real" saber fight. if i'm not mistaken, the killing blow was a regular parry, followed by a stab to the gut. no force-push-pull-kick-grip-flip-throw-stab-stab-kick-grip-stab-flip-push kill.

exactly our point. change s/o ctf. did we EVER say anything about changing your modes? no, so be quiet and post in regard to topics that have an effect on you. why would you care about what goes on in ctf when you can choose to go to an ffa server?

i don't know how many times i've told people this, but in order to kill a good fc with good protection in ctf, you must use things other than just running and sabering. it is essential. now please, don't talk about 'cheap kills' because the fact is we play to find the best way to kill and survive, and maybe we aren't roleplaying (personally glad we're not), but that is up to us, not you. now leave us alone unless you have something useful to contribute regarding CTF.

and, like you, we are (or were) excited about JA. what if raven put back in even more 'cheap' moves for us to use in the game, and did it for all modes? you would be complaining, as we are now because these 'cheap' moves are the only thing that allow us to kill protected fcs. now, if raven left it like this, would we go to nf boards and cry about people like you complaining? no.

scarlet
09-20-2003, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by kazesan
Oh wait you play SO FF CTF. Well you suck then. If you have one person slowing the FC down the other person can promptly kill them with a staff or dual sabers or red stance. Pull stops absorb for a sec. In that sec you can swing and kill people. Not that hard. I think SO ctf is a bunch of crap anyway. All the strategy is gone. No proper defense, no proper assaults. Where are the snipers? Where are the intricate detpack and trip mine traps?

If you want to play SO FF do it in TFFA. Or you could find a REAL clan game and start playing siege.


you obviously haven't thought this through, because the person pulling him when he's absorbing will be giving him force, allowing him to heal and use speed. not to mention a guardian who can heal and attack the attackers. finally, do you realize how hard it would be to perfectly synchronize one person pulling and the other sabering?

and please, we DO NOT CARE about your gametypes. if you don't think s/o ff or s/o ctf interest you, then stay the hell out.

scarlet
09-20-2003, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
You don't like JA, fine. Your loss, not ours.

exactly, the s/o ctf community and ff duel community's concern. thank you for pointing out what we've been saying to you this whole time. and we didn't mean we didn't like JA, we meant we didn't like our gametypes. have you seen a SINGLE member of the s/o ctf and ff duel community saying they like the game? it IS our loss, not yours, and it is ours to deal with by protesting to raven.

scarlet
09-20-2003, 06:36 AM
and prime, thank you for posting good content, i enjoy reading your posts.

scarlet
09-20-2003, 06:43 AM
gf

Comm539
09-20-2003, 09:24 AM
Finally they seem to get the message that we want the stuff thats in JO in JA FOR CTF GAMETYPE ONLY. Even make it serverside selectable. So many people intefer with a cocky impression that they know s/o ctf and really no ****all.
I hope Ravern decdes soon too, coz teh gurantee runs out in 12 days >:

KaiaSowapit
09-20-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Kurgan: Saberdamagescale is a solution, I will give you that, but what about those who fail to implement it?

Here's a thought: host your own server - set it up how you like. Don't have the time, money or interest? I say, put up or shut up.

Then there's those of you who insist on calling every other player online a "n00b" and not worthy of sharing your bandwidth. Guess what folks, it's called multiplayer for a reason. Don't like the community you're stuck to play with? Go outside and fly a kite.

I swear, some of you people act like you're paying a monthly subscription fee to play MP online. Grow up.

C'jais
09-20-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by scarlet
exactly, the s/o ctf community and ff duel community's concern.

Yes. Now suck it up and move on, or stop your incessant whining and calmly state what you'd like to see fixed - without flinging sh*t at the fan.

The problem is that you think you all have a right to play the game the way you want. So what if you can't play s/o CTF the way you used to - play something else if you don't like it. You didn't see people complaining when the saber's damage was lowered from JK to JO, because it was a completely new game, with new rules. And people adjusted.

Now we're here with JA, and suddenly you think it's not a new game, but rather, an "upgraded" version of JO and that means everything must work just like before. But it doesn't.

I don't know what Raven intends to do about this problem (and trust me, I can see that you have a problem), but in the meantime, I'm not going to sit on my bum and whine here all day long. As an example, because I don't care for dual and doublesabers, I'm now tempted to pick up guns. That's how it goes.

But you will not come in here and troll every-f*cking-thing in sight and behave like spoiled 13 year olds on a senseless trick-or-treat rampage. That's pathetic and solves nothing.

Oh, and here's a tip: If you want anyone to take you guys seriously (not to mention Raven), stop using those silly internet acronyms like "stfu", "u" and "gtfo".

aXoe
09-20-2003, 12:38 PM
Maybe Raven will never make another Jedi Game. I mean everybody here has their blood boiling about the ctf feature. You guys cant expect the game to be perfrect over night can you? Some of the posts only make me laugh. I cant be bothered to say which ones, but those of you probably know who you are. Go outside, drink a beer, meet with friends this game hopefully is not your life and by the time the next Jedi game comes out this one will be obsolete (shiver in your pants because hl2 is supposed to be here). I have no intention to put any of you down but come on its just a no-brainer game. Swing the saber, hope to hit. Push the guy of the ledge (ohh there are many) and get the flag. How many of you think, really think about how you SHOULD play the game, what you/your teamates should play/kill/protect, no strategy whatsoever, up to now at least.

=X=Master HeX
09-20-2003, 12:51 PM
Well, last night I played some ff/so ctf and I'm not too happy with it. Most of you people know myself or my clan (http://x.fragism.com). From a players standpoint this game type is now very boring. I found myself running after the FC on the hoth map for the entire duration of the map. I believe I killed them perhaps 2 to 3 times before the map was over. Translation: It will be impossible for an organized returning team to return when the defending team has 1 healer and 1 energizer. Without the ability to corner a FC and knock them down it is near impossible to kill them with a easily avoided kata, etc.

Possible solutions aside from patching:

1 - Set both team heal and energize to max level 2 (or disable them all together)
2 - Consider playing a more restricted Force Type (Jedi Knight instead of Master)
3 - Design maps to be more restrictive for flag holders so there is less places to run.

Seeing as I don't like any of those solutions, my own would be patch the game when the SDK is released. I plan to add the ability to kick back into JA with the new xmod (toggled by cvar). Along with all the other features from the old xmod.

I'm sure I will catch a bunch of fire from the community, but to tell you the truth I didn't start modding for the community. I started modding to make the game work the way I thought it should. I do think there are major issues at this point with competitive play.

On another note... I love powerdueling. I think they did a great job at developing a game where this mode would be possible. I can deal w/o kicks here and I think this shows that kicking has it's place in the game types. Hopefully the SDK is released soon and I can get to work fixing the things I think need fixing. I am always up for suggestion of course.

C'jais
09-20-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by =X=Master HeX
[B]I plan to add the ability to kick back into JA with the new xmod (toggled by cvar). [B]

I get the feeling it's not kick per se you want back in the game, but rather, some way to knock down an enemy - am I right?

Because if that's the case, you could just as well ask for the push and pull to knock down more frequently, or ask for an increase in saber damage altogether in s/o games that aren't duel.

Just my thoughts, good post btw.

=X=Master HeX
09-20-2003, 01:15 PM
Because if that's the case, you could just as well ask for the push and pull to knock down more frequently, or ask for an increase in saber damage altogether in s/o games that aren't duel.

The increased damage deal never sat well with me. I like to have the feeling that my saber does just as good in dueling as it does when I bring it to a ctf map.

From what I understand push/pull will knock a player down if the attacker (person who pushed) has a higher force rank then the defender (person being pushed). When the defender has absorb on it really doesn't even matter what their push/pull rank is either.

Yes, what we need is some way to knock down an enemy tho. Another large issue is the ability to spring up has become more user friendly. This makes it too easy for a knocked down person to avoid an attacker. In fact now they can return the knockdown with some good aim. I suppose this is a fair trade for removing the ability to roll to avoid certain doom.

Comm539
09-20-2003, 01:16 PM
Push pull and fc with absorb WILL NOT knowthem down, it'll slow them slightly, but power them up to speed off again. No offence, but the s/o ctf community has been playing since the release of JO. If things were as simple as pull him and he falls over, then there wouldn't be any complaints. The s/o ctf community knows whats wrong and knows what needs fixing. Not one, not one ctf player (in a clan, not anikane Wader who played ctf once) has said that JA has made ctf better, more of a challenge etc. They all say ja has RUINED s/o ctf.

To restate, we do know what we're doing and as it stands in JA, there is no way to kill an fc with an organised team.
To the push pull knockdown frequently: that just means annikane wader pull whores and constantly knocks down the fc. Kicking required skill to catch up, timing and actually hit (after the fc dodges) and also the direction. Its the the most skillful part of the game, but i reckon it takes more skill than pull whoring.

But once again...this doesn't concern other game modes. We just want the feature to choose to have the JO stuff on or off, like hex wants to do in x mod, but make it an official release patch.

=X=Master HeX
09-20-2003, 01:22 PM
This has always been an issue in patches. I don't understand the reason for removing features. A simple toggle can reduce MUCH complaining from various parties. It also gives the admin the long lost sense of "customization ability".

C'jais
09-20-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by =X=Master HeX
The increased damage deal never sat well with me. I like to have the feeling that my saber does just as good in dueling as it does when I bring it to a ctf map.

I see, I don't really enjoy it much either - I just played a botmatch and it took ages to kill someone, even with red stance.

I'm all for more damage in general as it is right now.

From what I understand push/pull will knock a player down if the attacker (person who pushed) has a higher force rank then the defender (person being pushed). When the defender has absorb on it really doesn't even matter what their push/pull rank is either.

Yup, all correct. I was thinking more about how a player could get knocked down if he was doing something like turning his back to the "pullee" or swinging his shaft about.

Push pull and fc with absorb WILL NOT knowthem down, it'll slow them slightly, but power them up to speed off again.

I'm well aware of that, I was speaking more about how to knock someone down with push and pull in general. Of course, if absorb is on, you can't really pull/push anyone.

Here's a question: How did JK1 CTF matches play out? I mean, you've got your speed, your absorb and your olympic runner FC, but no kick at all. I wasn't playing that gametype back then, but I'd be interested in knowing how they dealt with it.

But I'm sure Raven will release a patch sometime to fix some of the buggy multiplayer.


I was just on a duel server, and all I saw were people wielding staffs and dualsabers, but who had no idea what they were doing, just swinging and running around, occasionally doing a roll stab that never did much damage.

Comm539
09-20-2003, 02:28 PM
Imo jk1 ctf was aweful. We got JK2, which wasn't perfect, but was a great improvement and played well. Then we get JA which seems to have deevolved in features. I heard the kicks were available in the beta version, so it means their probably still there and were taken out late. It can't be that hard for the devs to patch it with kciks as a toggle? aswell as ptk, out of los grip, gripkick etc.

cphlebas
09-20-2003, 02:43 PM
okay, so I understand about need a way to stop the FC and the brief pause that an absorbed push/pull giving not being enough. That's a problem. However, there is a new kicking system added with the twohanded system that provides knockbacks and knockdowns. Is it not possible to build combos with this (ie kick to knockdown, kata as they get up)?

One of the main complaints people had with the double-press jump kicks was that the range was too great and often didn't match the animation. The new ground-based kicks seem like they would offer a new trade-off of reduced range, but greater options (being able to kick in any direction).

Astrotoy7
09-20-2003, 02:57 PM
Wow, I have been wincing at the last 4 pages of this thread! There's alot of testosterone in here !!!! How old are all you guys !!!!!!!! Very early on in this thread a wise poster stated :

Most of these whiner's complaints go on like this -
it's not like jk2 - Cry Cry Cry
JA doesn't have my fav move from JO - Cry Cry Cry
I don't like this - Cry Cry Cry
I keep getting beat because of this move - Cry Cry Cry
It's laggy, totally not my fault- Cry Cry Cry
Random stupid thing that no one cares about - Cry Cry Cry
I can't adapt, which is all raven's fault - Cry Cry Cry
etc. etc.

Bravo ! Couldn't agree more !


As for myself, I've said this somehere else, but I'd like to add it here. For those who nit pick and complain, what you need to do is get your ass off your mum(or is it mom's :P) couch, go out and get a job with a game developer like Raven, Bioware, Blizzard etc, and make a game that every gamer in the world will hail as a masterpiece.

In anything, from making a toasted cheese sandwich to developing a game, it is impossible to please everyone, if you dont like it, JUST DONT PLAY IT & MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE !!!!!
Go back and play your fave game, ring a pretty girl and take her to the prom...or somethin !

MTFBWYA !

g//plaZma
09-20-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by cphlebas
okay, so I understand about need a way to stop the FC and the brief pause that an absorbed push/pull giving not being enough. That's a problem. However, there is a new kicking system added with the twohanded system that provides knockbacks and knockdowns. Is it not possible to build combos with this (ie kick to knockdown, kata as they get up)?

One of the main complaints people had with the double-press jump kicks was that the range was too great and often didn't match the animation. The new ground-based kicks seem like they would offer a new trade-off of reduced range, but greater options (being able to kick in any direction).

Saberstaff kicks are not efficiant enough for CTF. You'd have to run straight up to the fc, stop for a second to press alt fire (you can't run while pressing alt fire) and then press a directional button to kick at the air because the fc will be long gone by the time you actually pull off a kick. If in some case you did connect with the kick, the fc would just counter-kick at you when he's on the ground, usually causing more damage and a knockdown which would give him the perfect chance to run off while you're down.

SkinWalker
09-20-2003, 03:02 PM
This is one of the worst threads I've seen in a while...

People quoting whole posts to leave a couple of words in reply, adolescent name-calling, hax0r language, flames, etc., etc.

I was actually hoping to find something useful about Multiplayer gamestyle here... some strategies that I can read that others have found.... Nothing but insesant whining from all sides...

The biggest problem with JK2 MP was RPG/emote garbage that sucked up all the servers and got in the way of gameplay, and the so-called experts that had no other life than to perfect their kicking style so they can run around and show everyone how elite they were.

Bah.

These were both minorities of the game, the majority being just players that wanted to interact with other "real" opponants to play a game once in a while. Ufortunately, these minorities were the loudest two groups of idiots in the game, which ruined it for many, including themselves.

Regardless of you motivation, you guys should leave all the flames and insults in your heads and not type them in this (and other) threads. This is plainly against the rules.

If I were moderating in this forum, I'd delete every post with a flame and the thread would be left with a handful of quality, on topic posts.

But since I moderate elsewhere, I'll simply ask that you guys chill out and have the respect you are obligated to show by being a member of LF.

Comm539
09-20-2003, 03:50 PM
Most flames originated from people from other game modes, who this doesn't concern.
I've wrote the reasons about 100 times now and I can't be bothered again (maybe scroll up or something :P), but all we want is a patch with the features from JO that can be toggled on or off. That way, we get what we want and 'casual gamers' get what they want.

MasterNeo
09-20-2003, 04:14 PM
and the so-called experts that had no other life than to perfect their kicking style so they can run around and show everyone how elite they were.

If I had a life I would consider that a flame.

I played JK2 from the begining. It was hard in the begining, I learned by watching duels and by taking some little tips along the way. As I played more and more I got used to the game and began winning my first FFA matches. Kicking became an important tool in the game since it was used for so many things so I began working on that as well. After a year and a couple months I have it down, as to many others. Its a valuble tool to learn and it helps win matches in JK2.

As well as a gamer, I also maintain a 3.7 GPA going into my Junior year, I volunteer to help out less fortunate inner city kids from East Cleveland, and I also build model rockets and shoot them off with my friends. But you didnt need to know that

I'll be darned if somone tells me I have no life, simply because I learned a technique in a game that gives me an edge. If people think I do that just to show how elite I am because I won the match then so be it.

You can insult my skill, but please dont insult my character.

Thanks

Comm539
09-20-2003, 04:27 PM
The reasons why the features of JO are needed are obvious in s/o ctf and i'm tired of keep repeating them. An fc won't stop and fight, you need to stop him. Since there's no new ways to do this (therefore no new way to learn) he gets away everytime and stalemates the game. If there was indeed a new fandangled way to stop an fc, i'm sure noone would complain about things missing, but, unfortunately, there isn't. This is why we need the old ways back

What is most annoying, is the fact that we are only asking for toggleable features. Kicking is only brought back if you type the command, out of los gripping is brought back if you type the command. Ptk is brought back if you type the command. It doesn't affect any other gamemode apart from individual ctf servers. And since the entire s/o ctf community is united over this, I don't see the problem. There is and can be no sensical arguement against this.

MasterNeo
09-20-2003, 04:30 PM
^ Very True ^_^

g//plaZma
09-20-2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
and the so-called experts that had no other life than to perfect their kicking style so they can run around and show everyone how elite they were.

Wow. Are you for real?

Kicking was the best way to win in JK2 and if you didn't kick, you'd get your ass handed to you by people who do. I don't understand why you're hating on people just because they used an attack that was put into the game by Raven to be used. A simple fact is that if you know how to combo with kicking, you will easily kill the guy who swings a saber around. Sure, the guy who swings the saber around can complain and bitch at whoever just killed him using such a "lame" technique such as kicking but that doesn't make up for the fact that your score on the score board is less than the guy who can kick.

C'jais
09-20-2003, 04:54 PM
Contrary to popular belief, you can look stupid while winning.

kazesan
09-20-2003, 04:57 PM
True Raven put kicking into the game to be used, but I doubt they wanted to totally nerf the saber and basically make it an unimportant part of the game. The game is Jedi Knight. It is based on the movies. In the movies they don't flip kick everything in sight. I bought JA and JK2 because I wanted to have a game with an innovative and accurate melee combat system. The added bonus was that it was based on Star Wars. I have fun when I parry my opponents attacks and give him few good hits with the saber, win or lose. I don't have fun when I get kicked to the ground then kicked as I get up then kicked again.

I also have a hard time having fun when people spam katas and spam roll stabs and spam special moves and only use staff and dual sabers because of their huge dominance over single. In the first patch (I'm expecting one) I hope they up the damage of single saber's blue and yellow stance greatly. That or they tone the damage of dual and staff down. If kicks are put in then hopefully people won't abuse them to the extent that katas and twirls are abused in this game. Of course it may just be the dumb admins who make the staff kick instant kill.

g//plaZma
09-20-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
Contrary to popular belief, you can look stupid while winning.

"Look" stupid? Do competitive gamers really care if they look like retards on crack while their score is 100 - 0? No, we do anything and everything to get our names/teams on the top of that scoreboard.

Geez the mods here are really stupid.

scarlet
09-20-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
Yes. Now suck it up and move on, or stop your incessant whining and calmly state what you'd like to see fixed - without flinging sh*t at the fan.

The problem is that you think you all have a right to play the game the way you want. So what if you can't play s/o CTF the way you used to - play something else if you don't like it. You didn't see people complaining when the saber's damage was lowered from JK to JO, because it was a completely new game, with new rules. And people adjusted.

Now we're here with JA, and suddenly you think it's not a new game, but rather, an "upgraded" version of JO and that means everything must work just like before. But it doesn't.

I don't know what Raven intends to do about this problem (and trust me, I can see that you have a problem), but in the meantime, I'm not going to sit on my bum and whine here all day long. As an example, because I don't care for dual and doublesabers, I'm now tempted to pick up guns. That's how it goes.

But you will not come in here and troll every-f*cking-thing in sight and behave like spoiled 13 year olds on a senseless trick-or-treat rampage. That's pathetic and solves nothing.

Oh, and here's a tip: If you want anyone to take you guys seriously (not to mention Raven), stop using those silly internet acronyms like "stfu", "u" and "gtfo".

first of all, am i complaining about "every-f*cking-thing" in sight, or just s/o ctf? and, is my whining really all that unbearable? can you not choose to not to click on these threads? aren't you supposed to be having fun playing your mode on JA anyway, when did you enter the s/o ctf concern?

the reason i'm complaining is not because i want JO back. if i did, i would continue to play it and not worry about JA. the fact is, i, like you, want a new game which is as fun for me as jk2 was. you know, i'm not saying i NEED kick, ptk, gk or dfa back, i just want SOMETHING to fill the void. and no, katas do not fill that void. if you say i should just go find a different mode, put yourself in my shoes. what if they took away everything from nf duel and ffa modes (or any other modes you like), and told you to go play a mode that you didn't enjoy? time out: isn't online gaming about having fun? with a community? i do not have nearly as much fun on ffa or other servers, and i generally do not like it's community. so you're saying don't play the game? so i just waste $50 and have no right to express my opinion about the game and offer up things to fix MY mode?

now please, if you didn't play JO s/o ctf and don't plan on it playing JA s/o ctf, STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD. how many times have i said this?

C'jais
09-20-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
"Look" stupid? Do competitive gamers really care if they look like retards on crack while their score is 100 - 0? No, we do anything and everything to get our names/teams on the top of that scoreboard.

True, just don't expect to get invited to any cool parties afterwards.

Geez the mods here are really stupid.

Hmm.

I'm tempted to say the same about the clientele around here, but of course, that'd be a sweeping, silly generalization.

scarlet
09-20-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
and the so-called experts that had no other life than to perfect their kicking style so they can run around and show everyone how elite they were.

my motivation was never to show how 'elite' i was, it was for the challenge, like most other online fps games, and it was the best/most efficient way to kill an fc. i never had the intention of 'showing how elite i was' by killing an fc with a kick. please, stop making invalid assumptions.

Comm539
09-20-2003, 06:07 PM
Look we want a toggleable feature. If you don't want kicking, you don't have to have it. We want kicking, we can turn it on.
BTW, there are simple ways to avoid kicks, just because you haven't learnt them, that doesn't make kicking 'lame' or 'unblockable', because contrary to popular belief, it is.
But this is moving from the point. No one has come up with a 'new' way in JA to stop and kill a guy who doesn't want to be stoped. As a s/o ctf community, we all want kicking back.
Thats why we want the features togglable. We're happy, you're happy, we're all happy.

scarlet
09-20-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by kazesan
True Raven put kicking into the game to be used, but I doubt they wanted to totally nerf the saber and basically make it an unimportant part of the game. The game is Jedi Knight. It is based on the movies. In the movies they don't flip kick everything in sight.

how do you know what raven 'wanted' by putting kick in the game?

Originally posted by kazesan
The added bonus was that it was based on Star Wars. I have fun when I parry my opponents attacks and give him few good hits with the saber, win or lose.

exactly, we didn't buy JA and JK2 because we wanted it to be based on the films, we wanted a good fps with a competitive community, which is why we don't go on your servers and insult your game types.

Originally posted by kazesan
I don't have fun when I get kicked to the ground then kicked as I get up then kicked again.

great, more power to you. if you don't want kicking to the ground then kicking when you get up then you have nothing at all to worry about: we are concerned about s/o ctf, and we just want the ability to toggle features (if you didn't understand what that means, we want raven to add an admin option that allows the admin to enable kick or disable kick, enable grip kick or disable grip kick, etc.). therefore, there would be many servers full of people like you who bought the game for the role playing experience, and i'm sure you will continue to have fun in the game. now, the s/o ctf community on the other hand, are we happy with what JA is as of now? no, that's why we want the admin capability to change the settings for S/O CTF, and if raven helps us it will not do ONE THING to your modes. we're not complaining to YOU, we're asking raven to reconsider what they have done to US. now please people, i don't feel like explaining this to anyone else.

mikeyjuan
09-20-2003, 06:24 PM
Hahaha someone called this a 'new' game. I dont know what your playing, but I just got jk:a and basically i spent 50 bucks to buy the 1.05patch of jk2 with /amsit commands built in...

g//plaZma
09-20-2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
True, just don't expect to get invited to any cool parties afterwards.

Oh nos! I won't be invited to any "cool parties"

/amcry

Why don't we 1v1 ff duel to 10 in JK2? I'll post a demo. I'm sure many people would like to see that.

Rumor
09-20-2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
Yes. Now suck it up and move on, or stop your incessant whining and calmly state what you'd like to see fixed - without flinging sh*t at the fan.

The problem is that you think you all have a right to play the game the way you want. So what if you can't play s/o CTF the way you used to - play something else if you don't like it. You didn't see people complaining when the saber's damage was lowered from JK to JO, because it was a completely new game, with new rules. And people adjusted.

Now we're here with JA, and suddenly you think it's not a new game, but rather, an "upgraded" version of JO and that means everything must work just like before. But it doesn't.

I don't know what Raven intends to do about this problem (and trust me, I can see that you have a problem), but in the meantime, I'm not going to sit on my bum and whine here all day long. As an example, because I don't care for dual and doublesabers, I'm now tempted to pick up guns. That's how it goes.

But you will not come in here and troll every-f*cking-thing in sight and behave like spoiled 13 year olds on a senseless trick-or-treat rampage. That's pathetic and solves nothing.

Oh, and here's a tip: If you want anyone to take you guys seriously (not to mention Raven), stop using those silly internet acronyms like "stfu", "u" and "gtfo".

its funny. people like you were the ones who got jo dumbed down.

if you would like one of us duelers or ctf'ers to show you what its like to try and kill us in a match, please do. i'd say 6 people from here who are very much against kicks, grip hiding, etc., versus say, div3rse in a 20 minute match of CTF, and a duel to 10 frags with no timelimit versus myself, plazma, remij, one of the saberists from aP, or one of the duelers from FK. you'll get what we mean if you see it first hand.

scarlet
09-20-2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
Contrary to popular belief, you can look stupid while winning.

i don't remember anyone saying they want to look cool while winning, more like, we want A WAY to win.

Rumor
09-20-2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Wow, I have been wincing at the last 4 pages of this thread! There's alot of testosterone in here !!!! How old are all you guys !!!!!!!! Very early on in this thread a wise poster stated :

Most of these whiner's complaints go on like this -
it's not like jk2 - Cry Cry Cry
JA doesn't have my fav move from JO - Cry Cry Cry
I don't like this - Cry Cry Cry
I keep getting beat because of this move - Cry Cry Cry
It's laggy, totally not my fault- Cry Cry Cry
Random stupid thing that no one cares about - Cry Cry Cry
I can't adapt, which is all raven's fault - Cry Cry Cry
etc. etc.

Bravo ! Couldn't agree more !


As for myself, I've said this somehere else, but I'd like to add it here. For those who nit pick and complain, what you need to do is get your ass off your mum(or is it mom's :P) couch, go out and get a job with a game developer like Raven, Bioware, Blizzard etc, and make a game that every gamer in the world will hail as a masterpiece.

In anything, from making a toasted cheese sandwich to developing a game, it is impossible to please everyone, if you dont like it, JUST DONT PLAY IT & MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE !!!!!
Go back and play your fave game, ring a pretty girl and take her to the prom...or somethin !

MTFBWYA !

sorry but 99% of us have Full Time jobs, girlfriends/wives, and do many other things, like play school sports.

Rumor
09-20-2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker

The biggest problem with JK2 MP was RPG/emote garbage that sucked up all the servers and got in the way of gameplay, and the so-called experts that had no other life than to perfect their kicking style so they can run around and show everyone how elite they were.


wow. i didn't know mods were immature enough to start insulting peoples lives. and you frown on people flaming? take a look in the mirror, bud.

Rumor
09-20-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by MasterNeo
If I had a life I would consider that a flame.

I played JK2 from the begining. It was hard in the begining, I learned by watching duels and by taking some little tips along the way. As I played more and more I got used to the game and began winning my first FFA matches. Kicking became an important tool in the game since it was used for so many things so I began working on that as well. After a year and a couple months I have it down, as to many others. Its a valuble tool to learn and it helps win matches in JK2.

As well as a gamer, I also maintain a 3.7 GPA going into my Junior year, I volunteer to help out less fortunate inner city kids from East Cleveland, and I also build model rockets and shoot them off with my friends. But you didnt need to know that

I'll be darned if somone tells me I have no life, simply because I learned a technique in a game that gives me an edge. If people think I do that just to show how elite I am because I won the match then so be it.

You can insult my skill, but please dont insult my character.

Thanks

damn straight man.

I work full time, i'm currently remodelling my house, raising 16 (yes, SIXTEEN) puppies, going to school, learning photoshop/maya/webdesign, and i play sports and go do **** with my friends, plus i hunt and fish and go camping. i'm an Assistant Scoutmaster. No life my ass.

Rumor
09-20-2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
"Look" stupid? Do competitive gamers really care if they look like retards on crack while their score is 100 - 0? No, we do anything and everything to get our names/teams on the top of that scoreboard.

Geez the mods here are really stupid.

not to mention getting sponsored to get free servers and games...and sometimes money...

Rumor
09-20-2003, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
Contrary to popular belief, you can look stupid while winning.

we care, why? i don't care if you put a pk3 in your base folder that makes anyone who kicks turn into a wookie in a pink leotard, we don't give a damn what you think about how we look.

mikeyjuan
09-20-2003, 07:12 PM
Rumor 2 late, they already have that pk3. its built into the newest AMSIT mod

Kurgan
09-20-2003, 11:30 PM
Sigh.. why does every thread on this subject have to turn into a flame fest?

Geez, you'd think some people had never heard an opposing viewpoint before. What does insulting a person do to convince them your point of view is correct?

If you (and you know who you are) don't want threads to get locked PLEASE show some more maturity and constructive debate skills.

I'm just getting fed up with people not respecting each other on here.. it's just brings the whole forum down. ; p

Not sure what was meant by that crack about getting "free servers and sometimes money", but much as I *wish* that was true, it's not. We do this for free and for fun.

And insulting mods? That's crossing the line. I don't care what board you visit, that's not a smart thing to do. If somebody is doing something you disagree with you can report it to an admin and we'll discuss it or post constructively in the Feedback forum, but you don't smear them on here, period.