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View Full Version : Linux wineX compatibility of the JA client???


JaseP
09-21-2003, 03:49 AM
Have any Linux users had any success with running the Jedi Academy client in Linux???

The decision for me to purchase this title will depend highly on whether or not that is possible.

Furthermore, for the record,...

[begin rant]
I would like to voice my displeasure with LucasArts and Raven for making yet another Linux dedicated server for this game without supplying us Linux users with a Linux client. This a low move. You expect Linux users to HOST for you, but do not give us the satisfaction of actually PLAYING?!?!? If I get no WineX compatibility and no client, I, personally, will be actively discouraging Linux users from hosting JA servers. We are not your lackeys. Give us a client.

Linux is more than a server OS you know. In fact, the Quake 3 Arena code has been ported to Linux as has Wolfenstein, enhancements in both of which went into the development of this title. Linux machines typically experience a 20% increase in framerates for titles natively ported to the platform, on the same hardware. If you ask me, it's just lazy programming.
[end rant]

JaledDur
09-21-2003, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by JaseP
Have any Linux users had any success with running the Jedi Academy client in Linux???

The decision for me to purchase this title will depend highly on whether or not that is possible.


Not yet.


Furthermore, for the record,...

[begin rant]
I would like to voice my displeasure with LucasArts and Raven for making yet another Linux dedicated server for this game without supplying us Linux users with a Linux client.


Tons of games have done this. This is because GNU/Linux is seen as a server OS. Which is mainly what it is used for.


This a low move. You expect Linux users to HOST for you, but do not give us the satisfaction of actually PLAYING?!?!? If I get no WineX compatibility and no client, I, personally, will be actively discouraging Linux users from hosting JA servers. We are not your lackeys. Give us a client.


Not exactly sure here, but the WineX people aren't exactly cooperative people, from what I hear. They like to not contribute back to Wine, and their customer support doesn't have the best track record. Bleh. Forget WineX, ok? If you're gonna push for something, just push for native and native alone. It isn't helping the Linux community to have game makers thinking they can just compile for win32 and to hell with Linux because Linux has a nifty emulator (yeah I know its not an emulator, but whatever, Linux isn't 'Linux' either).


Linux is more than a server OS you know. In fact, the Quake 3 Arena code has been ported to Linux as has Wolfenstein, enhancements in both of which went into the development of this title. Linux machines typically experience a 20% increase in framerates for titles natively ported to the platform, on the same hardware. If you ask me, it's just lazy programming.
[end rant]

Quake3 to linux was a product of the work Loki did on it. I don't know about Wolfenstein. I know UT2003 has a native version, and I'm almost certain it uses the Loki installer, just as an FYI since it doesn't really have any bearing on anything here. And of course, Loki went out of business a while back.

And the 20% increase thing is not true. It is not typical for there to be huge increases in framerate, although it is typical that there isn't framerate loss.


Now, don't get me wrong, I love Linux (I'm in a meta-distro of RedHat 9 right now), and it would kick ass to have games written so that they run in Linux.

Its not hard to do, obviously, or we simply wouldn't see the likes of Enemy Territory, UT2003, Quake3, Wolfenstein, etc ported to Linux. If it was a gigantic black hole of time and money, they wouldn't be doing it.

In fact, I would go as far as saying that I would buy their Win32 version and then pay an extra 10-20 dollars just for a patch that makes it work in Linux. They wouldn't even have to deal with distribution costs other than some bandwidth. No self-respecting Linux user is without an internet connection, so they wouldn't lose any people by offering it this way.

And to anyone that says that you can't fix everyting to work in Linux with just a patch -- wrong. Quake3 point releases for Linux (~35MB I think) can convert the Win32 version. :)


But believe it or not Jase, tons of people still think Linux is text only! yes I know this sounds compeltely and utterly ubsurd to you, but its true.

And it certainly is NOT text only. Its got KDE and Gnome -- choose one, they both rock! It can do games, if they are released for Linux (sometimes via Wine, even ones that aren't). It can certainly handle MSOffice junk, either with OpenOffice or using CrossOver Office to run MSOffice IN LINUX.

There is MPlayer for all your DivX, mpeg, DVD, etc needs. There is XMMS which is a compelte clone of the Winamp 2.x line. It can do Yahoo IM, MSN messenger, AOL IM, ICQ,, etc, with a program called Gaim (think trillian).

Mozilla is the web browser (more available) and Mozilla pretty much just owns. There is Evolution for mail (like Outlook Express). The list just goes on. And Linux has made great strides in usability in the last year, and is continuing to do so.

Yeah, there are a lot of naysayers out there. "I couldn't get it to work", "It didn't work with my hardware, "It sucks!!!!!!!111". Right well at least 2 out of three of those may have had a solution that you didn't find, maybe you didn't really look, maybe there wasn't really a problem in the first place and you just didn't realize you had to turn something on, or enable the device.

if this inspires you in any way to try out some form of GNU/Linux, feel free to PM me, and I will help you as much as is possible.

JaseP
09-21-2003, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by JaledDur

Tons of games have done this. This is because GNU/Linux is seen as a server OS. Which is mainly what it is used for.


And AOL is mainly used for coasters. But it can do a (very) little more. Linux is versatile. It can do a lot of things. There is no reason to pidgeon-hole it as a server OS. Also, what was done years ago is not the same as what things stand at now. Linux had lackluster 3D support 5 years ago, when Half-Life came out. It was more suited as a server OS at that time. Now, top titles run on it, very well I might add. It's time for software companies to give Linux more serious consideration.


Not exactly sure here, but the WineX people aren't exactly cooperative people, from what I hear. They like to not contribute back to Wine, and their customer support doesn't have the best track record. Bleh. Forget WineX, ok? If you're gonna push for something, just push for native and native alone. It isn't helping the Linux community to have game makers thinking they can just compile for win32 and to hell with Linux because Linux has a nifty emulator (yeah I know its not an emulator, but whatever, Linux isn't 'Linux' either).


My first choice is Linux native. It's why I got Neverwinter Nights and its expansion pack. It's why I got Return to Castle Wolfenstein. It's why I am thinking about Unreal Tournament 2003, although with the recent M$ deal, I may change my mind there.

However, if a title is good enough, and the developer is kind enough to make it play nice with Transgaming's winex, I'll go that route.

So far though, Raven has a bad track record there.


Quake3 to linux was a product of the work Loki did on it. I don't know about Wolfenstein. I know UT2003 has a native version, and I'm almost certain it uses the Loki installer, just as an FYI since it doesn't really have any bearing on anything here. And of course, Loki went out of business a while back.


The Loki installer was public domained. So it's use is free. There is no reason to associate Loki installer use with Loki work.

There are plenty of ported games like FreeSpace 1&2 which use Loki installers, if you pick up the ones that fans have put together.

Wolfenstein's port was done by ID. ID have commited themselves to porting DOOM 3 as well.


And the 20% increase thing is not true. It is not typical for there to be huge increases in framerate, although it is typical that there isn't framerate loss.


My experience, with Neverwinter Nights for example, has been a 20% increase on the same hardware as compared to Win98. With other titles, like Q3A and RTCW, the framerates are similar, but the load times are many times faster (I use ReiserFS as my file system, which may have an impact there).


Now, don't get me wrong, I love Linux (I'm in a meta-distro of RedHat 9 right now), and it would kick ass to have games written so that they run in Linux.

Its not hard to do, obviously, or we simply wouldn't see the likes of Enemy Territory, UT2003, Quake3, Wolfenstein, etc ported to Linux. If it was a gigantic black hole of time and money, they wouldn't be doing it.

In fact, I would go as far as saying that I would buy their Win32 version and then pay an extra 10-20 dollars just for a patch that makes it work in Linux. They wouldn't even have to deal with distribution costs other than some bandwidth. No self-respecting Linux user is without an internet connection, so they wouldn't lose any people by offering it this way.


I use SuSE 8.2, and I find that generally the best titles have been ported over. Some not immediately. Performance is often enhanced in the Linux version.

The time it takes to port titles is miniscule. It's often the longest in regards to issues surrounding anti-paracy technology. The SIMS for example was ported in just 6-8 weeks. Most of that time was spent on copy-protection. Terminus (a Privateer/Elite-esque space shooter/trader) was ported in about 2 months and released with the Win and Mac binaries on the same disk. Neverwinter Nights took a long time, but most of that time was spent on trying to get the sound working right, which was eventually solved by a port of the Miles sound system they used. Bink is now ported and should yield similar results.


And to anyone that says that you can't fix everyting to work in Linux with just a patch -- wrong. Quake3 point releases for Linux (~35MB I think) can convert the Win32 version. :) [/B]

Return to Castle Wolfenstein is that way, as well. As is FreeSpace and FreeSpace2.

Linux is worth the effort. Especially if you are going to be asking us to serve up dedicated servers.

JaledDur
09-21-2003, 06:14 AM
Yup.

:)

JaledDur
09-21-2003, 04:54 PM
bump

JaledDur
09-21-2003, 11:41 PM
Rise!

JaseP
09-22-2003, 01:38 AM
I can't beleive there are no server hosters here who haven't tried running Jedi Academy in WineX.

JaseP
09-22-2003, 04:25 AM
OK, found a thread on Transgamings WineX site. It seems that because of the difficulty created by the copy protection sceme used by Raven, the only way to get Jedi Academy to run in Linux is to use a NOCD crack, and make sure that you run the winex3 command on the jasp.exe executable.

Now, why couldn't they have used a CD code like every other Quake-based game?!?!?? This is just typical Raven.

I again re-iterate. Linux users should boycott the running of Linux dedicated servers for this title until they agree to release a Linux client for this game. WE ARE NOT YOUR LACKEYS.

JaledDur
09-22-2003, 04:32 AM
Well I wouldn't go that far. But it does suck. I mean, what the hell good is copy protection anyway? It doesn't actually stop people from copying the CD's. It just makes things a pain in the ass for others.

JaseP
09-22-2003, 04:41 AM
I would definitely go that far. Since the use of a NOCD crack is technically a violation of the DMCA, there is no lawful way to run a copy of Jedi Academy in Linux, other than as a server for Windoze use-es (I would say users, by Windoze "users" are the ones being used, hence use-es).

Therefore, LucasArts should do one of the following: 1) order the creation of a Linux client for Jedi Academy, 2) winthdraw the Linux dedicated server, since having it without a client for Linux is hypocracy, or 3) Officially sanction, in an addendum to their license agreement the use of NOCD cracks for the express purpose of running Jedi Academy through wine/wineX on Linux.

Since #s 2 and 3 are unlikely,... LucasArts should either have created a Linux Client or authoize its creation by a third party under an NDA.

JaseP
09-22-2003, 05:14 AM
My e-mail to LucasArts:


Please forward this e-mail to the appropriate department.

Dear LucasArts:

I have been a user of your software for over 10 years. I have pruchased no less than eleven of your games. I have been a fan of the Star Wars license for over 25 years. Together, I feel they represent LucasArts strongest software license.

It therefore is distressing to me that you would choose to offer your Jedi Academy title for the PC with a Linux dedicated server without also offering a Linux client. Furthermore, since Jedi Academy contains copy protection software on the disks, it is impossible to run with tools such as wine or WineX under Linux without utilizing a "no CD crack." As I am sure you are aware, such "no CD cracks" are violations of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, and are therfore illegal.

Porting titles to Linux has never been easier. The SIMS took approximately eight weeks to port, most of which was spent on copy protection issues. Linux native code for Miles audio and Bink video now exist. OpenGL is well supported in Linux, and has been for some time. Game engines such as Quake 3 Arena, Neverwinter Nights and Unreal Tournament 2003 have been ported to Linux. Many production houses exist that will port the titles for a small fee and little in the way of expense costs.

As such, you are asking Linux users to host servers for your software without giving us the oppurtunity to run the game on our Operating System of choice. I for one will be encouraging other Linux users to refrain from hosting Linux servers for your games until such time as you would agree and actively pursue a Linux native client for all games for which you release a Linux dedicated server.

You have an oppurtunity to build goodwill within the Linux community. The Linux comunity can help support your titles with servers designed to make the multiplayer aspect of them more enjoyable. It is morally wrong to ask for this support without providing incentive for us in return. Please reconsider.

Very Truly Yours,
-J. P.