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View Full Version : Nice game, but not worth 39.99$ this should have been an addon pack...


shoppa
09-21-2003, 01:25 PM
Nice game.

But, its not worth the 39.99 US $ I paid for it. (SHoot some people are actually paying 49.99$ for it, sucks to be you)

This should have been an add on pack, for say 24.99$

Its clear it uses the same engine and setup as JO.

So the only real changes are new models, saber options, levels and a script.

I have talked with a few other players and they feel the same way.

I guess they go after the money when its time to sell the product.

Halflife 2, Halo, Doom3 those will be 39.99 - 49.99 $ titles, this one is not.

-DK-Squee
09-21-2003, 01:34 PM
I dont care how much i pay, besides the single player just, IS SO GREAT, I WOULD PAY $100! Your probably thinkin of the multiplayer, hope thats not all u payed JA for edit: if it was an addon pack, trust me, IT WOULD SUCK

rut-wa jodar
09-21-2003, 01:34 PM
I have to agree, but what can you do ? :confused:

garak88
09-21-2003, 02:32 PM
I don't agree at all, there is so much more that you can do with Jedi Academy then you could with Jedi Outcast. I've had tremendous fun with so many aspects of this game. Sure its the same engine, but if Raven had switched to a more modern one they would have had to build up the game from scratch and I think overall we would have had a less satisfying game, one which Raven had to focus just getting basic saber stuff to work rather then the depth that is displayed here. With all the new animations, the ability to use a large number of vehicles, character customization and so forth, this game will be a joy to mod. I personally can't wait until a few Swoop bike maps start emerging. The level design in Jedi Academy is head and shoulders above Jedi Outcast with more depth and a lot of very exciting features. With all the little Easter Eggs which I'm still discovering this game has been tremendous fun.

More then that, because Raven stuck with the old Quake III engine I was able to immediately begin to import characters and maps from Jedi Outcast. Its a lot of fun fighting Darth Maul with a double light saber.

Overall I felt this game was definently worth the $49.99 I paid for it

Kurgan
09-21-2003, 05:39 PM
As Mike Gummelt pointed out, most game sequels do NOT use a new engine from their predecessor.

Using a new engine would mean you wouldn't be playing JA right now, you'd still be waiting for it probably for another 2-4 years.

Now could it have used the doom3 engine if Doom3 itself isn't even out yet?

Besides, you all know it takes a few games using an engine to really "polish it" as Raven has done with the Q3TA engine.

I think they did an excellent job. Marketing it as an expansion also would have lowered their sales and people wouldn't want to pay full price for it.

Wanderer
09-21-2003, 05:45 PM
Jedi Academy is worth every $ (or in my case Euro). You can do so many things(riding tauntauns, speederbike, wield different types of sabers....). You can go on and on...so much new things. It's incredible. I agree I would have bought it even if it had cost double the price (I paid 44.99 Euro in germany and I'm playing with the thought to buy another one, just in case :)).

I was sceptical first but now I say: JEDI ACADEMY IS COOL!

Tarus
09-21-2003, 06:12 PM
The single play was not that great.

Taran'atar
09-21-2003, 07:38 PM
Starcraft: Brood War expansion pack: Two new terrain types, six new units, and a single player campaign a little over half as long as Starcrafts. This is probably one of the biggest expansion packs I've played.

Jedi Academy: Countless player character models, several new npc models, two new saber types and a move set for them both, one new weapon, two new drivable vehicles, and a single player campaign at least as long as Outcast's. This game is way too big and has way too much new stuff to be an expansion. So stop whining.

Ildon
09-21-2003, 07:55 PM
fanboi alert...geez.

The Warcraft III expansion adds more than Brood War did to Starcraft. Frozen Throne actually modified a part of the engine, allowing actual control of units specifically made for water travel. That alone is a greater addition than adding even ten units. This game changed nothing about the engine at all - in fact, Jedi Knight II itself was little more than a pro-quality Quake 3 mod. The difference between this, and Jedi Knight 2, is little enough to safely say that JA could have been an expansion pack. It would definitely not have sold as well if it were. There are mods for Jedi Knight 2 that add as much as this game. And the single player game is crap.

The game may not suck as much as...well, practically every other Star Wars game in the past twenty years (with few exceptions - KOTOR, pre-1.03 JK2, and Rebellion), and the single player is by far its WEAKEST point. Single player in this game is WORSE than Jedi Knight II, and multiplayer is right on par with the most 'currently' patched, crappy version of jedi knight 2, which isn't very good. I can see some nice tweaks possibly coming, but if this game keeps attracting "people who suck at games", we'll only see nerfs and the like, and look what that did to jedi knight 2...

Isoparm
09-21-2003, 08:14 PM
Didn't mots add just as many new features as JA ? wasn't that sold as an addon pack also?

the weiner dog!
09-21-2003, 08:27 PM
The good:

Single player story.

Multi player maps

Multi player gun games (ctf/ffa)

New player models

Very low learning curve in multi player saber games (button mashing looks really cool this time around)


The bad:

All multi player full force saber only game types (ffa/duel/ctf/pd/teamffa) are totally unbalanced. You can heal/team heal at almost 3 times the rate you can cause damage, thus making virtually every game a stalemate.

A lot of nerfing, much more than Jedi Outcast had.

even basic special moves require force now, grip is useless, no kicking other than the ineffective saber stance kicks, slower physics like the nerfed rolling, much lower damage sabers than 1.04 Jedi Outcast had (when in saber only game types), need I continue or did you get the point yet?

ILR
09-21-2003, 08:31 PM
I'm so confused... usually when people don't like a game they try to have nothing to do with it. Why do people who don't like this game hang around at the forum and complain? Wouldn't they rather go to the forums of the video games they like and talk about how great it is? Ever heard of Sigman Froid?

Ildon
09-21-2003, 08:32 PM
multi player gun games? special? what?

I bought Quake 3 years ago. I bought Jedi Academy the other day, to play Jedi Academy, not Quake 3 with star wars gun skins.

I'd like to consider JA as a real game, not one of the fifty-something star wars mods for quake 3 that are already out there, but so far it's shown to be crappier than most.

PrimoSidone
09-21-2003, 09:10 PM
ildon u retarded... its an engine NOT a game.. its no that u ARE playing Q3 u dumb ass... geez dont like the game? SCRAM, BE GONE, OPROTTEN, MOVE, JALAAAA, WEG


geez i hate people like u.. if u dont like the game.. use ur receipt to bring it back and dont come here complaining and ruining people's gameplay with ur hypocritic and awkward sentences.

Mordred
09-21-2003, 09:26 PM
well to be honest most game sequals are like add-on packs, they just add some new thing, but most of the time the graphics are boosted, which for some reason keep people happy.

for eg. as long as Tekken 4 dont looke like Tekken 3 its fine that it plays and feels exactly the same.

but again u dont like it, or u feel its not worth it, just take it back and go buy some thing you do like or feel is worth your money.

Ildon
09-21-2003, 09:27 PM
Sorry, I don't live in a backwater town with privately owned businesses that sell software and take it back because I have a receipt. Every software store within an hour of here, including the ones I WORK AT, will refuse the return of a game, even with a receipt. Exchanges for the exact same product only. Because, you know, you can burn games. Yeah.

Yeah, like I said before a couple times, there isn't a JA engine, it's the Quake 3 engine. I also said "I'd like to" consider JA as a "real" game (I'd like to, as in I can't). The fact that the "mod" as I'll call it now, was developed by an experienced team of professionals, opens up a lot more to the customization of game and will allow them to add a lot more than a team of teenagers living in their parents' basements can do with a six-year-old modified engine.

I'm not ruining any gameplay, this is a message board, tard. Hypocritical? What?

Awkward sentences? Sorry, I speak English, and speak it well. Complete sentences and use of real words must make your head spin, I guess.
And I half-expected you to say something about my mother.

u cna kep plaeyign ur gaem az much az u wnat 2, ill keep postign hear bcuz id liek 2 c how thignz r develupign.
k thx.

Mordred
09-21-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Ildon
Sorry, I don't live in a backwater town with privately owned businesses that sell software and take it back because I have a receipt.

i don't ethier, and all the stores are big name ones, ok some times u have to lie a little.

but other places will take it back for any reason, even if its u just dont like it, as long as you return it within 14 working days.

i know Gameplay.com used to do it like that, dont know if they still do, i haven't used them in a long time

the weiner dog!
09-21-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by ILR
I'm so confused... usually when people don't like a game they try to have nothing to do with it. Why do people who don't like this game hang around at the forum and complain? Wouldn't they rather go to the forums of the video games they like and talk about how great it is? Ever heard of Sigman Froid?

Ever heard of "we are the reason you software company exists, yes we the customers. If we are unhappy with a product and you wish to receive more of our money in the future you may want to pay attention"?


Seriously people, use your damn brains for a second.

If you go to a fast food joint, order a burger and get a order of fish and when you go back to the window and ask for it to be corrected and they respond with "we have your money already, go away" do you just take your fish and drive away content?


Of course not.

If that business continues to treat people like that do you think they will stay in business long?

Remember above all else, this is the commercial market, we are consumers, and this is a product.

I know that may be a difficult concept for the star wars freaks to grasp but if consumers are not happy with a product, sales will drop and unless the said problem is rectified, they will not return.

This game is not getting stellar reviews, it's not getting a lot of positive feedback from the multi player community and if you can't see a problem then you are lost in your own delusional little star wars fantasy world.

Archonon
09-21-2003, 10:00 PM
Weiner Dog while I respect your opinions as well as all others I think it would be inappropriate to become confrontational the same as many people have been doing in both sides of the argument.

You are not satisfied with the final product well that is your opinion and you wish to point out what you feel has caused to diminish the gaming experience for you in a respectable and constructive manner then that is your right as a consumer.

Frankly what was put in or removed from ctf of MP is indifferent for me as I don't care for MP other than running through some maps against a couple of bots (which dooms me not to ever see Siege but oh well). As such I expect you to also respect the opinion of those that disagree finding fault in the game where you do.

I am increasingly being annoyed by the constant whining and rants being posted on these boards. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying not to post your opinions, concerns, recommendations, I am bothered at how it's being expressed in remarks such as: "This game sucks because so and so was removed" and things like that.

Your orignial post of evaluating MP was constructive and very well formulated for which I greatly respect. But as opposing opinions surface you seem to be headed in the same path of the whiners I mentioned. So please keep your comments in the same form as your original posts. And I truly hope this from every person indifferent to their opinion of the game as much as myself. I'm sorry those of you feel letdown by the end result of the game and I hope that some of those matters can be addressed to improve your experience with game but please lets keep an open mind and respect both sides of the discussion.

the weiner dog!
09-21-2003, 10:24 PM
Trust me, I'm trying to keep them as constructive as possible but every other reply is a baseless comment like "I don't have the game yet, but you should stfu" so it's getting a little hard to do.

And while I totally agree “THIS GAME SUCKS” is a bad way to go about getting that point across, I know myself am finding it hard not to lash out with four letter worded responses when I get a slew of ignorant replies and trite catch phrases from people who have no clue what is going on but want to get their two cents in just to get noticed.


People simply don't understand why (although a few do) we are taking issue with multi player and want to point it out to the developers so as to possible get something corrected.

1-None of us are saying we are now experiencing anything like "I can't win, I suck now, fix it".

2-None of us are saying anything like "This move is totally gay, take it out".


The comparisons to the "back stab whining" from the Jedi Outcast days are simply not valid.


Hell, give us back the 1 hit kill back stabs, give us anything lethal for that matter.

Our problem really does not apply to "public" servers and games with the average/casual players.

What we are talking about is in competition level play.

-players are not going to be suckered or fall for tricks that an average player would.

-we now have healing rates that are 3 times more potent than damage rates.

-we have as our only viable solution to fix this problem, is to jack up saber damage scales, but totally ignore the myriad of problems that surround the force power restrictions and nerfs that our entire game type centers around.

Silent_Thunder
09-21-2003, 10:45 PM
So far I've only played the single player portion of the game, so I Can't really comment on the MP. I play MMOs for multiplayer mainly, so it doesn't really concern me...

I think this game for the amount of content (atleast in SP) is pretty much on tract with the standard 50 dollar game.

Still, since Raven used virtually the exact same graphics and engine as before I think they should've made the game atleast 30% longer, and concentrated on making a better storyline and dialouge.

Remember, Jedi Knight used a completely new engine, and I think it was a better game than either JKII or JA. Dark Forces also used a completely new engine aswell, but was a much different game, so I can't really compare it (still my favorite :)).

I also feel that they kind of worsened and took out alot of aspects I enjoyed in JO... Saber combat is sooooo much more random than in JO... That is really my major gripe. There are absolutely no stealth areas. Environments are ALOT more repetetive within a level than before. Alot of the time when I was advancing onward in the level I thought I had accidently gone back the wrong way because that area was so similiar to the last spot I was at. I don't recall having that happen to me too often in JO.

One complaint I had with JO was that it become too "flashy" and non starwarsy with it's force powers and lightsaber techniques. In JA this is so much worse. You see guys floating off the ground using dark rage... grabbing and draining energy from you (which is very annoying, atleast until I got absorb), and the *SPOILER* final boss, Tavion's sword with it's glowing red lightening. Why not just have a nice simple real looking sword? I think that would've been so much cooler...

Still, some things are improved. I feel that the overall 'fun factor' which is really the most important thing is higher in this game. There are a few really cool and fast paced parts such as the speeder bike riding, and some of the better designed levels. The force powers also seem so much more well designed and balanced. No longer do you have to run in slow motion to kill a reborn with ease... You can use a variety of powers. Lightning is also actually NOT worthless this time around! Yay! It's really hilarious to hear a reborn say: "I am more powerful than you.." then send him into the air with a bolt of electricity.

The animations are also better... but the voices and taunts are just so incredibly silly... and very annoying. What is up with Kyle this time? "You're kidding, right?". He says that every 2 seconds, as well as the reborns constantly saying the same two lines, which strangely enough, rhyme...

Anyway, I guess the fact that I wish JA was longer proves I enjoyed the game...

But I still (just like in JO) wish that this game would've been created in house like Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, and MotS... the best games of the series in my opinion. The story line and force powers would've been much more inline with what we see in the Star Wars films I think...

Archonon
09-21-2003, 10:49 PM
I understand that people can get under your skin with baseless comments or just downright insulting remarks. And I understand (I think) what you are referring to in the problems arising from what's now in MP such as the exceeded Healing and a loss of competetive edge because of disminished saber damage and force power restrictions.

As I said, I do hope that these matters are addressed, as they probably will in my opinion, but I only commented on my own feelings because of the constant barrage of rants and insults flying around. I only mentioned you because you had gone against this trend but started leaning in that direction as of late.

So hopefully there will be some MP patches coming at some soon future date that helps with the problems you are finding in MP. I'm just getting tired of people insulting other members because they either like or don't like something, so my post was more of a general comment than something directed at your sentiments personally.

To comment on what you just put in, personally I liked JA much more than JO or Jk2 in terms of storyline. The format was fine for me, and I'm so grateful not to have seen trash compactor levels and similar locations which plagued Jk1-2. I do not like stealth missions in JK so I was not disappointed in that aspect. And at least for me I bought the game for saber battling so I am not disappointed at the frequency of saber combat in JA. The glow sword, at least how I see it, represents Sith power which if the sword had been a normal steel Lord of the Rings sword well the Lightsaber would slice through it as if butter so I also did not mind that, again just my preferences.

The only thing I can complain about SP was it did not have neutral npcs, very little Coruscant but more than anything there was not as much depth as I wanted for the character's development in the story. Jaden doen't walk around the Academy and talk to other masters and students in between missions which is something I liked of Star Trek Elite Force and hoped JA would have. I also am a sucker for a romantic subplot and missed a new and improved subplot than the brief one in JO, again just me. Other than that I found SP in JA more to my liking than any other JK game; I liked the Sith Cultists in appearance a 1000 times better than Reborn, I liked the Mercenaries which I swear I saw in another SW game before, and I liked the originality in levels like the Sand Burrower, Rancors and Boba Fett which set JA apart for me from a standard run around shooting or in the case hacking away at all enemies.

Silent_Thunder
09-21-2003, 11:08 PM
One other thing before I forget:

In every single game in the series before JA there was atleast some sense of danger, and possible failure. In JO you hear Kyle tell Jan that if he doesn't make it out alive that the Republic should be called in to finish the job. We see Jan almost get killed and presumed dead (well, atleast by Kyle) for half of the game.

As a lowly padawan in JA you get sent out on a mission to kill hundreds of stormtroopers and a few dark jedis. Afterwards Kyle just tells Jaden to meet the academy after his next mission like that was no big deal. There is also absolutely no talk of Rosh all his time missing. What makes Kyle and Jaden think that he's ok and didn't just get sliced up by a reborn? No concern what so ever, everthing is just nice and happy... Even Rosh's near death by Alorah didn't really have much of an impact for some reason... You never hear Jaden say anything about "not being able to make it out alive".

I know it is just a game, but I still appreciate a nice storyline with GOOD lines and a sense of danger. Even JO had that down well enough, this one just seemed too far out with the sceptor and Ragnos business...

Archonon
09-21-2003, 11:19 PM
Well this kind of storyline has been used in the EU in a constant basis. While I agree with you about the sense of danger, I liked the Ragnos story much more than Jerec's group in JK1 (which to me were very over the top and not believable when compared to say the movie villains) and Desann in JO, well don't get me started on him, I had enough trouble swallowing a place where people can infuse the Force into themselves (Valley of the Jedi) to then have a T-Rex try to ake it for himself, but this is just a matter of preference anyways.

In the EU, Exar Kun's spirit remained in the Massassi Temples of Yavin 4 for 4,000 years before taking over the body of Kip Durron, a student under Luke's new Academy, in order to find a way to revive himself. The Ragnos story seems quite reminiscent or inspired by that to me.

And of course you don't hear Jaden talking about whether he'll live or not which I agreed with you; he rarely is presented talking to npcs about anything and very small story related scenes came out anyways, which as I said was one of the few things I was hoping to see more of. :)

Silent_Thunder
09-21-2003, 11:25 PM
Well, I guess it's just me then Archonon.

You didn't find lightsaber battles to be more random and less strategic than last time?

I do agree with you that the character models are MUCH MUCH better this time around. The cultists look better than the reborns, Tavion looks alittle better aswell... The new Darktrooper-ish stormtroopers also look cool... by why couldn't they have just made them REAL Darktroopers..? Like ones left over from the DF days... It would be sooo awesome to hear them say: "niiii" when you wake them up :).

Which reminds me... I think it's cool have the the STOUKER concussion rifle make a return, but what is up with that sissy noise? Even JK had a better sound effect. Dark Force's Conc rifle still reigns supreme in sound and appearance :).

I DON'T miss the garbage levels at all... But these levels just seemed too similiar I thought... There was nothing 'slowing me down' so to speak. I could just run in there and tap R (my lightning key :)) every few seconds and beat the mission no problem.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not taking the very unique levels for granted, I think they added alot to the game. I just wish they were longer.

One other storyline aspect I felt was sorely missed were the stormtrooper conversations. Off the top of my head I only remember 1 converstation between 2 stormtroopers. Maybe it was just because JO was a longer game, but I remember hearing them ALL the time, not only that, but they were quite amusing and furthered the plot and atmosphere I thought.

Anyway... to sum it up I felt like the plot wasn't starwarsy enough, niether were the force powers. The plot seemed too shallow, with absolutely no back story, with no mention of anything 'beyond' the game if you will. Still, it was a fun (but too short) gaming experiance, but I feel it could've been better... Atleast it's good enough that I want to play it again :).

ILR
09-22-2003, 12:53 AM
I hate to use this argument but...

When I went to the store I took the last JA they had. So here (and I'm sure other places too) it achieved "sold out" status. Somebody must like it, and who ever they are... there's a lot of them. Raven doesn't care about you, because the game is selling just fine without your help. Implementing mod support is the best Raven can do to please everyone.

I'd also like to add that I enjoyed the game and I will continue to enjoy the game. I'm glad they made it the way they did. It was a huge improvement over the original.

Take your grievances somewhere else. Nobody cares.

Archonon
09-22-2003, 02:53 AM
@ILR - This is precisely what I was talking about with Weiner Dog, please refrain from being negative with other members. I'm very glad you like the game, I love it myself much more than JO, but even though some people don't like what's going on with MP doesn't mean that it is considered a poor game as a whole (as some claim) or that it should ruin the game for you. As with JO, I'm fairly positive that Raven will take into consideration the concerns addressed by those who are unsatisfied and release a patch or more. What I was upset about is the attitude that some of these members have when they complain about what they don't like, the same should be said for those of us that do like the game as is and are being inconsiderate of our fellow gamers.

@Spartacus - I suspected Marka Ragnos was developed before Exar Kun. I realize that Marka Ragnos was the Lord of the Sith 1000 years before Kun and the Great Sith War and that Ragnos was the first Sith Lord to unite all of the Sith clans into what would become the Sith Empire. I was merely pointing out the similarity between Kun's story in the EU and that used for Ragnos in JA to Silent_Thunder who felt it less Star Wars, as a way to show that sort of thing is used in the SW EU. I have a fair knowledge of EU because of fanfic writing but in all honesty I'm not an EU fan in most occassions. But thanks for the info on Kevin Anderson and the literary references.

@Silent_Thunder - It's not just you, I just don't happen to share your feelings on this particular subject. Sure I found the saber battles more random (I would visualize them as frequent more than random though) than in past games. And occasionally I might have wished for a higher sense of strategy for the saber battles, but in all honesty I've never found the saber battles in any JK game strategic in the first place, so I suppose I did not feel a sense of loss in that aspect such as you. In all Jk games either SP or MP I've always found saber battles to be just slash, stab, hack or club to defeat your opponent, I've yet to find an actual example of strategy to parrying and have an actual style of fighting such as fencing moves or oriental martial arts, this was something being developed for the scrapped PC version of Obi-Wan where the mouse acted your saber moves.

I understand about the "ease" you speak of, here's how I deal with that; since it's SP I can control what I do myself, so I make myself limit the use of Force powers in standard dueling situations, I use Ligthning when I'm outmatched or in specific instances, I know it's little to make up for what you want but at least my saber battles are quite challenging for me, especially when I face double bladed or dual bladed opponents versus my single blade.

If anything I wholeheartedly agree with you I wish some levels were longer. As a whole JA is about twice as lo0ng as JO, level number wise, but some levels such as Mos Eisley are small. Sure I wish I would have been able to see the Jedi Temple in Coruscant, famous landmarks, go through ground levels and other parts from the movies in that planet which is my fave in SW but alas we are restricted to a very short perimeter around a few buildings, still I got to see it there and in the least it was enough for me to smile and run a little through the capitol.

Yeah there were very few conversations this time, I personally heard about 5 or 6 at the very most, I missed that but I still would have liked to see Jaden's character interact more with other characters and grow as a person not only as a Jedi. I tried to give you a bit of backstory as to why they might have selected Ragnos and here I mention who he was, I suppose those completely unfamiliar with the EU might not understand what the resurrection of Ragnos might entail or why he would be a deadly adversary. The scepter of power btw, reminds me of Lord of the Rings, where the wizards have their power centralized in their staffs.

shoppa
09-25-2003, 12:14 AM
Hmm this thread went a bit out there.

While people have been posting I have been playing.

I retract my initial statement, there is an enormous amount of new game play that simply blows JO away.

I give this title the worth 39.99$ tag... IMO

49.99$ is still too much, but I must admit, the game is good.

my 2 cents.

Good hunt.

FurionStormrage
09-25-2003, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by shoppa
Hmm this thread went a bit out there.

While people have been posting I have been playing.

I retract my initial statement, there is an enormous amount of new game play that simply blows JO away.

I give this title the worth 39.99$ tag... IMO

49.99$ is still too much, but I must admit, the game is good.

my 2 cents.

Good hunt.

My local Best Buy is selling it for $39.99... :D

Chastan
09-25-2003, 07:58 AM
Reason why it's not an add-on pack?

Simple, it's also being released on X-Box, which, in the traditional sense, you don't really have add-on packs for. I would presume that they want to market it the same way on both X-Box and PC. Just like how Vice City wasn't an X-pac