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View Full Version : Nerfed Tenloss - WHY?


Jeff 42
09-22-2003, 04:00 AM
Okay, I think this problem deserves its own thread. In JK2 after firing a charged up Tenloss shot you could immediately zoom out and start moving at full speed, jump, change weapons, etc. In fact, any good sniper would, more often than not, click to zoom out right after firing. In JA after firing a charged up shot you're stuck in the zoomed in mode for maybe a second, in which time the only action you can perform is a slow walk. This is incredibly annoying, and I simply do not understand the logic behind this gameplay change at all. Did people complain that the Tenloss was too powerful and needed to be nerfed somehow? Heck no. In other FPS games with sniper weapons are you stuck in the zoomed in mode for a second before you can move after firing? I don't think so (correct me if I'm wrong). Raven took what was my favorite weapon in JK2 and made it both a lot less effective and a lot less fun to use with this completely unnecessary change. In the inevitable first patch to JA this needs to be changed back to how it was in JK2. Anyone who agrees please speak up.

fk | screed
09-22-2003, 04:04 AM
Here, Here!

I spoke up :D

JarJarBinks
09-22-2003, 04:16 AM
I agree.

Spider AL
09-22-2003, 04:20 AM
JA is not a patch for JO, it's a new game, technically with new weapons. If the sniper rifle in this new game happens to not be as useful as the sniper rifle in that other, older game, it's merely a fact of life, and it's up to you to make mods that change that if you wish. Don't go screaming "PATCH!" five minutes after you've bought the game though.

JarJarBinks
09-22-2003, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
JA is not a patch for JO, it's a new game, technically with new weapons. If the sniper rifle in this new game happens to not be as useful as the sniper rifle in that other, older game, it's merely a fact of life, and it's up to you to make mods that change that if you wish. Don't go screaming "PATCH!" five minutes after you've bought the game though.

We're allowed to say whatever changes we want to see in the game, and you can't do a thing about it. How do you think patches are made? Half of it is from crisitism from the community. Oh, its been five days since I got the game, thats more than long enough.

the weiner dog!
09-22-2003, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
We're allowed to say whatever changes we want to see in the game, and you can't do a thing about it. How do you think patches are made? Half of it is from crisitism from the community. Oh, its been five days since I got the game, thats more than long enough.

I know, some people like to say "learn and adapt it's a new game" just so they can say "ohh ohh me too" and get recognition as being someone with a stance that puts them on the "anti whiner" side of the fence.

Just ignore them, their opinions are baseless and contain nothing more than cliché and trite catch phrases.

And yes Jeff, it was and is a pointless nerf that makes about as much sense as the grip line of sight nerf.

AL and others, please keep in mind this game is 80% Jedi Outcast content and mechanics.

I hate to burst your bubble and pop the illusion that you are deluding yourself with but there is very little "new content" to learn and master other than 1 new gun and 2 new saber stances with a very limited number of swings.

Sorry guys, someone had to bring you back to the real world.

fk | screed
09-22-2003, 04:38 AM
Sorry guys, someone had to bring you back to the real world.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! !!

Ok time for dinner break!

Jeff 42
09-22-2003, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
JA is not a patch for JO, it's a new game, technically with new weapons. If the sniper rifle in this new game happens to not be as useful as the sniper rifle in that other, older game, it's merely a fact of life, and it's up to you to make mods that change that if you wish. Don't go screaming "PATCH!" five minutes after you've bought the game though.
:rolleyes: For the most part JA is the same game as JO, with all the same weapons, and a few additions and changes. If one of these changes is one that almost everyone (who has an opinion on the subject, at least) would agree is a change for the worse, then of course they should change it back. Do you really think this game is not going to be patched at all? It seems to me from what I've seen and heard that it was rushed to release and has quite a few problems. We can only hope that the first patch, which almost undoubtedly will arrive at some point, will fix the problems (this Tenloss issue most definitely being one of them) and make a game that we can all agree is very good.

Spider AL
09-22-2003, 04:39 AM
We're allowed to say whatever changes we want to see in the game, and you can't do a thing about it. Incorrect actually. One thing I can do is sit here and tell you exactly what sort of damage premature patching can do.

You've owned the game for five days, you say? And you think that's long enough to evaluate the dynamic sufficiently to understand exactly where and what all relevant imbalances in the gameplay structure are? That's nonsense. It can take months to LEARN a game, never mind about evaluating its gameplay objectively.

Last year, JO came out, and shortly after its release a bunch of nutters came onto this very forum network demanding that Raven patch the game on their whims. The patch that was subsequently released ruined the game, because not only were the nutters who were asking for the patch highly immature and selfish, but they had not allowed enough time to truly understand the game and its gameplay. Three-six months is my estimate, and even that's generous.

How do you think patches are made? Half of it is from crisitism from the community.I'm well aware of how patches are made Mr. Patronising, I lived through the carnage that was JO v.1.03. Patches are negative if released prematurely. If rushed. If forced through by fanatics who demand instant change to gratify their whims. It's that simple.

Stay calm, play the game, wait for a while.

Spider AL
09-22-2003, 04:46 AM
I hate to burst your bubble and pop the illusion that you are deluding yourself with but there is very little "new content" to learn and master other than 1 new gun and 2 new saber stances with a very limited number of swings.The originality of the content of a game is irrelevant, sausage dog. FPS games have been derivative of quake for years. That doesn't make them Quake mods. JA is a new game, not a mod. A mod adds content to an existing engine. This is a new engine and new content. Learn the game.

:rolleyes: For the most part JA is the same game as JO, with all the same weapons, and a few additions and changes.Don't roll those eyes at me, sonny. JK1 was the best game of 1997/8, and there are many things that were good about JK1 that JO didn't have. I'm not running around demanding that instant force jump on a key tap be inserted, am I. I'm not demanding the return of a ranged power like Destruction, am I. I'm not demanding a faster paced game now, am I. Know why? Because even though I enjoyed those aspects in the original JK, JO was a new game, and JA is a new game. It's a new game. It's an adventure. There are new things to learn, and a new dynamic to adapt to.

Nearly every difference between JA and JO seems to have triggered a group of people who believe JA to be an addon to pop up and demand that things be "changed back." Changed back to what exactly? This is the first released full build of this game.

fk | screed
09-22-2003, 05:28 AM
al you need to stfu
-noide

the weiner dog!
09-22-2003, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
The originality of the content of a game is irrelevant, sausage dog. FPS games have been derivative of quake for years. That doesn't make them Quake mods. JA is a new game, not a mod. A mod adds content to an existing engine. This is a new engine and new content. Learn the game.



Again Al do you own this game?

If you did you would know it is the exact same thing as JO, 80% at least is straight JO content.

I'm not talking generic same, like both games have sabers and strafe jumping, I'm talking identical dynamics, moves and results from said executed moves.

It is the same thing with some nerfing in the wrong places and new ineffective moves in situations where you are facing a living thinking human and not an NPC.

I'm talking about the flashy but worthless Katas ^ on that one.

And please just once and for all shut the hell up with comparisons between what went on in the 1.02/03 days with this.

They wanted everything that was owning them TAKEN OUT.

We want everything that made the game more complicated than mashing 1 button like an imbecile PUT IN.

Do you not see a difference?

Of course not.

So dissect my post bit by bit and put your foot in your mouth once again.

fk | screed
09-22-2003, 05:34 AM
UJ just look at his sig, and clan web site. Enough said.

the weiner dog!
09-22-2003, 05:35 AM
This is swift you fool.

:p

fk | screed
09-22-2003, 05:38 AM
oh...... ITs farking late for your ass to be up!

LOL, read their rules, Thou shall resist the darkside! ROFLMAO

JarJarBinks
09-22-2003, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Incorrect actually. One thing I can do is sit here and tell you exactly what sort of damage premature patching can do.

You've owned the game for five days, you say? And you think that's long enough to evaluate the dynamic sufficiently to understand exactly where and what all relevant imbalances in the gameplay structure are? That's nonsense. It can take months to LEARN a game, never mind about evaluating its gameplay objectively.

Last year, JO came out, and shortly after its release a bunch of nutters came onto this very forum network demanding that Raven patch the game on their whims. The patch that was subsequently released ruined the game, because not only were the nutters who were asking for the patch highly immature and selfish, but they had not allowed enough time to truly understand the game and its gameplay. Three-six months is my estimate, and even that's generous.

I'm not saying release a patch in two hours, I'm just adding to the list of things that could go into the patch when it eventually is released, also I'm not 'demanding' anything, I'm simply saying "This is what I would like to see in the game, if you don't do it oh well". Oh, and I still don't see how you're stopping me from saying my opinion.

Rumor
09-22-2003, 06:31 AM
jesus christ al, go whack off or something. and take your newb posse with you.

do you have the game? NO
do you have a clue about what has been mentioned? NO
do you have a brain? jury is still out but i hear they are leaning to NO
do you have an enormous e-ego that tells you that you must belittle everything you disagree with, even though you are totally and infallibly ignorant? YES

my advice, shut the **** up and post where you have something at stake.

"OMG I SE SUMTIN I DUN LIEK I MUST PROOV TEH PERZON RONG CUS I AM HONOUR INCARNATE!!11 HOW CUD I B RONG ABOT NETING?!?!?1 DES LMERZ HAV NO GRMR AND SPEL SKILZ SO I MST PUT TEHM 2 SHME!!1"

Rumor
09-22-2003, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
The originality of the content of a game is irrelevant, sausage dog. FPS games have been derivative of quake for years. That doesn't make them Quake mods. JA is a new game, not a mod. A mod adds content to an existing engine. This is a new engine and new content. Learn the game.

Don't roll those eyes at me, sonny. JK1 was the best game of 1997/8, and there are many things that were good about JK1 that JO didn't have. I'm not running around demanding that instant force jump on a key tap be inserted, am I. I'm not demanding the return of a ranged power like Destruction, am I. I'm not demanding a faster paced game now, am I. Know why? Because even though I enjoyed those aspects in the original JK, JO was a new game, and JA is a new game. It's a new game. It's an adventure. There are new things to learn, and a new dynamic to adapt to.

Nearly every difference between JA and JO seems to have triggered a group of people who believe JA to be an addon to pop up and demand that things be "changed back." Changed back to what exactly? This is the first released full build of this game.

jk -> jk2 HUGE DIFFERENCE. some guns the same, some not. TOTALLY NEW SABER SYSTEM. force system changed. physics were changed too.

jk2 -> jk3 minimal difference. slightly enhanced graphical engine and 2 new guns, as well as 2 new sabers + their respective styles.

hmm new engine? no, seems to me that even the developers stated this. have you been living in a cave?

new content? yeah, new single player game and maps, plus two sabers and their styles. LOTS OF STUFF!!!11

thanks for sticking your own foot in your mouth, once again, sonny.

Alegis
09-22-2003, 08:50 AM
I use the sniper A LOT (scout in siege etc), so I think I know what i'm talking about:

I think primary fire is stronger, altough I think so when a jedi goes berserk on me 2/3 shots will do

I like walking around with the zoom, and with that advantage I don't find the stuck mode thing a disadvantage, I still like it

Clemme w/Stick
09-22-2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Rumor
jesus christ al, go whack off or something. and take your newb posse with you.

do you have the game? NO
do you have a clue about what has been mentioned? NO
do you have a brain? jury is still out but i hear they are leaning to NO
do you have an enormous e-ego that tells you that you must belittle everything you disagree with, even though you are totally and infallibly ignorant? YES

my advice, shut the **** up and post where you have something at stake.

"OMG I SE SUMTIN I DUN LIEK I MUST PROOV TEH PERZON RONG CUS I AM HONOUR INCARNATE!!11 HOW CUD I B RONG ABOT NETING?!?!?1 DES LMERZ HAV NO GRMR AND SPEL SKILZ SO I MST PUT TEHM 2 SHME!!1"

Aiight listen up ya'll. We dont need to get all violent here, do we? Anyways not at this level. I dont think it necessary for you to start flaming for being here speaking his mind. At least I dont start flaming you or anything. He might not have the game, yet, but that doesnt forbid him to speak his mind. However if he thinks hes got theory on this matter let him have, so instead of start flaming him and calling him a noob, just ignore his posts if you dont like him. I should report you to a moderator here, but I wont do because I'm a nice person. I've given you a second chance here, now dont waste it.
The same goes for the rest of you. If you see someone you dont like plz dont start flaming and bashing them and instead ignoring them.

The show must go on, and back to the topic. As for the Sniper prob here. I think they did what they did, because Raven thought that the non-snipers needed a fair chance with the snipers. I dont have anything agianst Snipers or anything like that, but I cant stand ppl who starts camping and stuff. Thats why they did what they did. I'm a decent Sniper and I dont mind what they did. If your really a great Sniper, you should be able to deal with this problem without any problems. Its a minor problem and its not a reason to start whining about it. You still have the right to say what you feel and think, but come on now. Its not that big of a problem if your really a good sniper :).

If you have anything to say to me about this PM me about it.

*Leaves thread*

-Clemme

InfErnO
09-22-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
JA is not a patch for JO, it's a new game, technically with new weapons. If the sniper rifle in this new game happens to not be as useful as the sniper rifle in that other, older game, it's merely a fact of life, and it's up to you to make mods that change that if you wish. Don't go screaming "PATCH!" five minutes after you've bought the game though.

JA = JO Mod. Nuff said.

Clemme w/Stick
09-22-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by InfErnO
JA = JO Mod. Nuff said.

JA IS a new game. Its not a patch, its not a mod, its not an adon, its a new game. How hard can that be to understand. I know that it doesnt live up to "new game" standards with eciting new game play, fancy graphics and stuff, but at least try to see that its a new game.
You're entitled to your own oppinion thats why I wont comment this anymore.

-Clemme

Spider AL
09-22-2003, 03:17 PM
Again Al do you own this game?I own a game called Jedi Academy. Not this mod you keep referring to, and entirely new game. :D

www.gameplay.com

Rumor, grow up. You sound like a young child.

Screed, my clan's been insulted by more articulate people than you. People that don't use acronyms every other word. The fact remains however that we're older and more experienced than all but two or three JK series clans out there. Even if you were ten times the wit that you are, nothing you could possibly say would affect any of us. :rolleyes:

(10x0=0) :p

I'm not saying release a patch in two hours, I'm just adding to the list of things that could go into the patch when it eventually is released, also I'm not 'demanding' anything, I'm simply saying "This is what I would like to see in the game, if you don't do it oh well". Oh, and I still don't see how you're stopping me from saying my opinion.This entire thread is "THIS NEEDS TO BE PATCHED." The implied imperative is clear. And I'm saying, learn the game before you decide what needs to be "fixed." You don't buy a car and demand a better engine before you even drive it.

And why would I stop you "saying your opinion" when I can point out how silly it is?

might not have the game, yet, but that doesnt forbid him to speak his mind.Thank you, in point of fact I've had the game for days. See the "return of kick" thread.

Destino
09-22-2003, 03:28 PM
JA = JO mod with price tag.

Spider AL
09-22-2003, 03:33 PM
JA = JO mod with price tag.Wow, what a well qualified and backed up statement. It's a separate game. It's updated, it's got a whole new set of levels, weapons, enemies, AI, rules and dynamic. Its graphics have been updated. What more do you want? It's a SEQUEL. Not a mod.

Prime
09-22-2003, 03:40 PM
If people are allowed to complain about aspects of JA and demand a patch, then others should also be allowed to say that they like JA as it is and don't want a patch.

JDKnite188
09-22-2003, 03:43 PM
I didn't even notice a change, and I do a lot of sniping.

There is something funny with the SP game plot involving the Tenloss. Supposedly the Tenloss Disruptor is an illegal weapon across the galaxy only used by crime factions and underworld types. The funny thing is that you are provided the option of taking a Tenloss in your weapons ensemble for EVERY MISSION. Those Jedi are hypocritical!

•-BLaCKouT-•
09-22-2003, 05:20 PM
http://images2.fotki.com/v21/photos/4/46087/215691/deargod_stop-vi.jpg

Rumor
09-22-2003, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Prime
If people are allowed to complain about aspects of JA and demand a patch, then others should also be allowed to say that they like JA as it is and don't want a patch.

fine, they said it. i've tried to be civil long enough but pretentious bastards keep invading the threads which HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM, nor WILL THEY EFFECT THEM, and proclaim they are the human incarnation of honour and must prove all these lamers wrong because that is what a jedi would do, spider being the most incessant one. every time he sees something he doesn't like, he has to come in and pick apart everyone's post for this and that and especially grammar/spelling. i mean wtf? its the ****ing internet, not a term paper.

Spider AL
09-22-2003, 05:39 PM
Umm... Rumor, I haven't critiqued grammar in these threads. God knows I COULD have... but we'd be here until doomsday.

i've tried to be civil long enough but pretentious bastards keep invading the threads which HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEMHeh heh. You don't get to choose who posts in what thread. These threads are relevant enough to me that I feel the need to post in them, that's the only requirement anyone needs. And do stop swearing and flaming. That's bannable.

•-BLaCKouT-•
09-22-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
And do stop swearing and flaming. That's bannable.
So's trolling ;)

B.

fk | screed
09-22-2003, 05:50 PM
al you need to stfu
-noide

InfErnO
09-22-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Destino
JA = JO mod with price tag.

Accurate.

Jeff 42
09-22-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Clemme w/Stick

As for the Sniper prob here. I think they did what they did, because Raven thought that the non-snipers needed a fair chance with the snipers.
Haha. Non-snipers need a fair chance with snipers? It's called level 3 saber defense. NO ONE ever complained about the disruptor being too powerful, except maybe the stupid noobs who complained whenever you shot them with any gun.

I dont have anything agianst Snipers or anything like that, but I cant stand ppl who starts camping and stuff. Thats why they did what they did.

This makes absolutely no sense. Camping by definition is staying in one place. What I'm complaining about is that after you fire a sniper shot you're forced to stay in one place. Good JK2 snipers rarely camp. I used to be a camping sniper but that was before I became a good sniper. Good JK2 snipers fire off a quick shot and are instantly on the move again. They jump and in mid-air zoom in, charge up, fire, and zoom out all before landing, then start strafe jumping as soon as they hit they ground. The disruptor in JK2, in the right hands, is very effective at long, medium, or close range. As it is now in JA it's ineffective at close range. If anything this change encourages camping, and limits the creative use of the disruptor that we know and love.

I'm a decent Sniper and I dont mind what they did. If your really a great Sniper, you should be able to deal with this problem without any problems. Its a minor problem and its not a reason to start whining about it. You still have the right to say what you feel and think, but come on now. Its not that big of a problem if your really a good sniper :).

If you're a noobish camping sniper it's not that big of a problem. If you're a really good sniper it's a huge problem because it basically ruins your whole play style. And there was absolutely no good reason for the change.

Look, this is pretty simple, really. If they had not done this, would anyone be saying, "You know, I think they should have added a big delay after you fire a sniper shot"? OF COURSE NOT. Now admittedly, I'm more upset about this than most people would be because sniping is my specialty in FFA and TFFA and this has a direct negative impact on my play style, but let's say they made it so after you fire the Golan secondary you're stuck in place for a second. That would clearly be ludicrous, and this is pretty much the same thing.

And the complaining people are doing now is completely different from the complaining people did in the early days of JK2. Back then, everyone was whining about various moves, guns, and Force powers being too strong. The problem was not that Raven patched the game, it was that they nerfed various aspects of the game, with weak sabers and, in 1.03, ridiculous ammo consumption. Now with JA they've done even more unnecessary nerfing. It's time for a fix that goes in the right direction and de-nerfs the game, and this change to the Tenloss is one of the most ridiculous and uncalled for nerfings of all.

Alegis
09-22-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Clemme w/Stick
JA IS a new game. Its not a patch, its not a mod, its not an adon, its a new game. How hard can that be to understand. I know that it doesnt live up to "new game" standards with eciting new game play, fancy graphics and stuff, but at least try to see that its a new game.
You're entitled to your own oppinion thats why I wont comment this anymore.


I totally agree with that...It looks like JO, but no way i'm playing JO back after playing JA. I love it, combat is a lot cooler etc


edit: and do quit whining about tenloss, IMO it AINT nerfed, primary fire is a lot stronger (especially in siege) I was in one of those stations in desert rescue, and fought 4 jedi+1 tech at a time with primary fire. Beat them all.

Spider AL
09-22-2003, 06:18 PM
So's trolling ;)You're in trouble then. ;)

Seriously, if you're accusing ME of trolling you can't know what trolling is. I'm debating a point, and putting my opinion across. Trolls don't do that, as a rule.

And the complaining people are doing now is completely different from the complaining people did in the early days of JK2.No it isn't. There were many people back then who had fairly innocuous desires, like yours. They still helped to trigger the whinefest that resulted in 1.03 though. People have no conception of what they do.

Prime
09-22-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
fine, they said it. i've tried to be civil long enough but pretentious bastards keep invading the threads which HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM, nor WILL THEY EFFECT THEM, and proclaim they are the human incarnation of honour and must prove all these lamers wrong because that is what a jedi would do, spider being the most incessant one. I wasn't directing my post at you Rumor :) You have been much better than most. It was just a general comment, that's all...

AxVegetA
09-22-2003, 07:01 PM
I agree with spider.
You must play a game for more than a month to actually know what is wrong and good.
So the patch must be made 2 months after the release.

Its absolutely fine to post your opinions on what sux in the game, but most of that stuff is because what you HAD and now you dont. You will get over that with time. :D

AxVegetA
09-22-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
www.gameplay.com


29.99 and free delivery?

Spider AL
09-22-2003, 11:45 PM
Quite reasonable, eh? I plumped for the extra pound to get really fast delivery. It arrived the morning of the day of release!

griff38
09-23-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Jeff 42
Okay, Anyone who agrees please speak up.


I agree Jeff.

There is a trite old saying: "The squeaky wheel gets the grease."


I think the kicks and Tenloss got alot of complaints from people who think of these JKO & JA as saber games.

People like you me and others who like kicks and the hated sniper rifle, didn't have anything to complain about. Raven listened to the complaints of a few and ignored the fact there were countless numbers of us who thought the game was fine.

I think I will have no problem adapting though, I plan to use the new gun to burn alot of saber junkies.:p :p :p

dyehead
09-23-2003, 01:28 AM
I personally hate guns in combination with sabers.

In SP, I NEVER use a gun unless there's some fish dude sniping me with a tenloss, then maybe I'll use one to get him, other than that, it's saber all the way, baby!

I REALLY miss kick, though.

I know what you're going to say to this one, but during the JO days, I was one of the first people to use kick, and use it well, and consistently. If you played against DyeHead, Senator Palpafag, or anyone on the MATRIX CPA CTF Sabers only server, you know that it was a great tool.

Now when we have cappers that bounce around from health pack to health pack using absorb, there are fery few ways of stopping them. Kick was a great way to stop someone from bouncing around all the time.

Now, when someone's camped on a ledge and you leap next to them, you have just used over half your force on the jump and cannot use the super saber moves, (attack1+attack2) so you have to try to do as much damage as possible, e.g. heavy stance overhead slash, but by that time they know you're there and push you mid stroke. It's incredibly dificult to catch someone off guard, and actually do damage. Blue does diddly really, so does yellow. Kick would give you a chance of downing the opponent and finishing them off. Bring it back! If you want to nerf kick, make it 5 damage or something, but we need a knockdown move!

Which leads me to my next gripe.... I have my own 20 player CTF server up, and I primarily use the single saber. I've noticed that I have NEVER gotten a 1 hit kill on an opponent with single saber heavy stance (from 100 health to 0), but I CONSTANTLY get 1 hit killed with both the light staff and the dual sabers.. I know what you're thinking.. You must suck, DyeHead! Maybe, but I don't think so. In Jedi Outcast, I was pretty hard to kill even without kick or force. I'd join duel servers and people would leave. Now it seems that single saber has been gimped. It seems to me that light staves being in the yellow band of power should do yellow damage? Same for the dual sabers. I do a left to right swipe with red and it takes 3-4 hits to kill someone, whereas someone with a light staff can kill me with one hit.

I'd like to find a way of adjusting light saber damage to balance things out a little bit, and maybe tone down force lightning a tad.. a list of config setting adjustments too please, if anyone has one :)

Also, I'm wondering if people already have binds to backstab... Some chump came on my server backstabbing everyone (dual sabers) and when I attempted this (I used to be a big backstab person in 1.03) My backstab had nowhere near the efficiency that his did. Is this some sort of yawspeed adjustment or auto backstab script? Some light over here, please.

Well, thanks for reading!

/novel

-=Sebastian A.K.A. -=DyeHead=-

fk | screed
09-23-2003, 01:41 AM
Im not playing anymore cause the game sux to much :D . I'll be back when its fixed.

Spider AL
09-23-2003, 01:51 AM
People like you me and others who like kicks and the hated sniper rifle, didn't have anything to complain about. Raven listened to the complaints of a few and ignored the fact there were countless numbers of us who thought the game was fine.Probably true, but whatever the reason behind the way Jedi Academy was put together, it's a new game. JO's still there if you like it's dynamic so much. I know that I for one won't stop playing JO just because I also play JA.

But what some people are asking for is indefensible. Any patch that alters gameplay has the potential to a: ruin the game, b: alienate a huge portion of players. The sooner after a game's release the patch is brought out, the less people will understand about the original gameplay, hence any attempts at "improving" gameplay are more likely to be inaccurate or incorrect. Detrimental.

Personally I think you should all play the game for MUCH longer, as I will, before declaring whether it's good, bad, better or worse than other games. In the next six months, new moves will be discovered, new bugs found. New tactics unearthed, and it would be very silly to try to patch a game before all these things have been found and brought to the community's attention.

Jeff 42
09-23-2003, 02:14 AM
Well, I'm certainly not trying to say OMG PATCH NOW!!!11111111 I'm just saying that when there is a patch this is one thing that had better be fixed. And it's highly unlikely this game will go six months without being patched, with all the problems it has.

Spider AL
09-23-2003, 02:16 AM
Well, I'm certainly not trying to say OMG PATCH NOW!!!11111111Good.

Problems? Nothing pressing. ;) Much buggier games exist and are played to death regularly.

Prime
09-23-2003, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Any patch that alters gameplay has the potential to a: ruin the game, b: alienate a huge portion of players. The sooner after a game's release the patch is brought out, the less people will understand about the original gameplay, hence any attempts at "improving" gameplay are more likely to be inaccurate or incorrect. Detrimental. I suspect that this is how Raven feels. They had a front row seat for the uproar the patches brought in JO. I think they will be much more hesitant to alter too much in a patch this time around...

Rumor
09-23-2003, 03:19 AM
well, as it stands the game already alienates an enormous playerbase. that means hundreds of players who played JO FF/SO gametypes, not to mention the players who would buy the game on the word of mouth of those players. i've talked to quite a few q3, sof2, ut2k3, and ut players, not to mention ET players who would buy the game if it didn't seem so "newbie-fied" with all the nerfs and the reviews of the people who DID buy the game.

Rumor
09-23-2003, 03:21 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Good.

Problems? Nothing pressing. ;) Much buggier games exist and are played to death regularly.

my god spider, you really do have comprehension problems.

THE ISSUE IS NOT BUGS. IT IS THE LACK OF PLAYABILITY.

and we did not come here to debate with you. we came here to bring gameplay issues to the attention of the game developers. do you have [RAVEN] in your name somewhere? no? then stfu.

i'm done being overly civil with obnoxious trolls who think they have god given power and the god given mission to stop anything they don't agree with.

again WE ARE NOT HERE TO DEBATE.

and yes you were critiqueing people's posts. you inflated your e-strapon about how you don't use acronyms, etc.

get off your high horse, i see no title of moderator or administrator by your name. nor would i treat you differently if it did.

dyehead
09-23-2003, 04:03 AM
I like the cut of your gib, rumor!

Down with Al the 8 legged freak!

g0g0 gadget patch! Bring back kick! <3 Raven

masterpayin
09-23-2003, 04:22 AM
Hmmm... JA seems like a patch/expansion pack for JO... They just took the stuff from the JO JediMod and made it actual in game options, added Siege. Sharpened up the graphics.... BOOM!!! I like the single player for the plot line, but JO will always own for multiplayer...

Rumor
09-23-2003, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by dyehead
I like the cut of your gib, rumor!

Down with Al the 8 legged freak!

g0g0 gadget patch! Bring back kick! <3 Raven


haha. i haven't laughed so hard today since i heard what made cloud9 (a top q3 clan which has been in existance for 7 years) break up just this afternoon.

dyehead
09-23-2003, 05:54 AM
=D

idontlikegeorge
09-23-2003, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
We're allowed to say whatever changes we want to see in the game, and you can't do a thing about it. How do you think patches are made? Half of it is from crisitism from the community. Oh, its been five days since I got the game, thats more than long enough.

Yeah, and gameplay changing patches is what ruins games - 1.03 JO - 'nuff said.

Sure, there's plenty I dislike about JA, gameplay wise. But it is their game in any case. The only thing they need to "fix" are any serious bugs, crashes, and exploits (like the 1 hit kill lightning and kicks). Anything that is not intentional for gameplay.

Now, if this delay from scope zoom isn't intended, it should be fixed. But for one thing, maybe it's just you. I haven't noticed any problems with the disruptor rifle.

Clemme w/Stick
09-23-2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
Now, if this delay from scope zoom isn't intended, it should be fixed. But for one thing, maybe it's just you. I haven't noticed any problems with the disruptor rifle.

I agree with you all the way :thumbsup:.

-Clemme

megafu
09-23-2003, 09:16 AM
why does everyone hate 1.03? It was the best patch in JO. It most accurately depicted what a lightsaber should do, cut through anything and anyone in its' way.

the weiner dog!
09-23-2003, 09:46 AM
1.04 has the best physics.

The un nerfed roll, the smooth player animation.

04 also had a properly working push/pull system.

By ravens own admission in the read me for 1.04, the previous patch's push/pull system was messed up.

a level 3 user was supposed to be immune to falling when pushed/pulled by a user with a lower level of push/pull but we all know that having level 3 would still get you ripped off your feet at times it should not have.

Not to mention that stupid "jump up after a pull down and freeze in place for 2-3 seconds" bug.

I admit I liked the pace and speed and dangerous nature of 03 but as far as physics and mechanics go, it really was flawed and unrefined.

Take 1.04, set the damage scales on par with 1.02, remove the restrictions on the “air lunge”, set back stab damage as it was in 1.03 (but keep the properly fixed pull/push system of 04) and give light siders the old 1.02 self heal back and you have an amazingly balanced and kick ass game with an incredibly fast pace.

Jeff 42
09-23-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
Yeah, and gameplay changing patches is what ruins games - 1.03 JO - 'nuff said.
Oh please. You use one example to try to prove the sweeping generalization that gameplay changing patches ruin games. Sure, 1.03 sucked, but on the other hand, I personally think 1.04 is the best version of JK2 - and regardless of what happened with JK2, all sorts of other games have had gameplay altering patches and weren't ruined.

Destino
09-23-2003, 03:05 PM
Spider Al seems to be a Status quo junky so if you want changes you would do best to simply ignore him instead of b!tching back and forth at eachother.

I would like the following
1- Give me back my ability to kick
2- Reduce saber defense. I really hate the all special all the time game this moronic defense system creates. Unlike JO please do't nerf the specials when the defense is the problem thanks.

Kurgan
09-23-2003, 06:28 PM
I never noticed this with the Disruptor, but I'll go check it out and see.

I know the gun is still as powerful as ever (although heavy lag can make it less useful), but I'll see if it indeed does what you say...


As to the saber defense, there is already the console commands to increase blocking, why don't you use those? You can also increase saber damage, and limit force powers. What's the problem?

Spider AL
09-23-2003, 07:26 PM
Good post, idontlikegeorge.

Rumor first:

my god spider, you really do have comprehension problems.

THE ISSUE IS NOT BUGS. IT IS THE LACK OF PLAYABILITY.Heheheh. I've been saying for about five million posts now that a patch with gameplay alterations shouldn't be brought out. Looks like you're the one with "comprehension problems".

i'm done being overly civil with obnoxious trolls who think they have god given power and the god given mission to stop anything they don't agree with.And I'm tired of childish flamers who think they have the god given power to change any aspect of the game that they don't like, regardless of how that change may affect others.

It's selfish and immature. It's indefensible.

And calling people you don't agree with "trolls" is even more immature.

and we did not come here to debate with you.Apparently you came here to force your badly presented and inherently selfish views on others. It's not going to be that easy...

do you have [RAVEN] in your name somewhere? no? then stfu.Ahahaha. How mature. You really are a pleasant fellow. The fact that I am not currently employed by Raven studios is entirely irrelevant. If I took up your style of post, I might say to you: "YOU WANT TO CHNAGE TEH GAEM? DO U HAEV RAVEN NEXT TO UR NA<E? NO?> THEN STFU LAMOR NOOB!!!11"

But I'm better than that, hopefully.

again WE ARE NOT HERE TO DEBATE.You don't get to talk a lot of selfish rubbish about how Raven and the community owes you an insta-patch which might very well damage the game for all, without some debate. Sorry to burst your bubble.

and yes you were critiqueing people's posts. you inflated your e-strapon about how you don't use acronyms, etc.Haven't done anything of the sort. And I use acronyms. What are you on about? Strapon? You've been watching too many dodgy movies...

Jeff 42:

Oh please. You use one example to try to prove the sweeping generalization that gameplay changing patches ruin games.Heh heh, as you well know Jeff, for I have posted such, there are many examples. Ask the tribes community. Ask CS players. Ask UT players. The list is endless. But 1.03 is a good example.

The fact that you liked 1.04 is irrelevant, because 1.04 was a patch designed to CORRECT flaws that the premature patch, 1.03, brought in. 1.03 was released too soon, and by a dev company too attentive to loud whiners on these forums.

Destino:

Spider Al seems to be a Status quo junkyUgh. Maybe you think 1.03 was the best thing since sliced bread, but I'm afraid it was ill-advised, premature and it alienated HUGE portions of the competitive communtity. I hope it isn't repeated.

Destino
09-23-2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL


Destino:

Ugh. Maybe you think 1.03 was the best thing since sliced bread, but I'm afraid it was ill-advised, premature and it alienated HUGE portions of the competitive communtity. I hope it isn't repeated.

I agree that the original JO was much better then what it became following the patches. I also agree that 1.03 killed large portions of the competitive community. However I see JA as having the same problems and thus not encouraging the real gamers to return.

If another patch is made then it should not be a nerfing patch like 1.03 and 1.04 but instead a patch that adds things that are seen as needed to improve gameplay.

yes I realise I am a idealistic nut job for thinking Raven will do such a wonderful thing without screwing everything up. But as they say, hope springs eternal.

Spider AL
09-23-2003, 08:12 PM
yes I realise I am a idealistic nut job for thinking Raven will do such a wonderful thing without screwing everything up. But as they say, hope springs eternal.Overpowering a move is as bad as nerfing other moves. BALANCE is the ever unattainable goal. It can't be realistically attained, but it can be striven for, and 1.03 was more imbalanced than 1.02.

As for Raven, they did what the community ASKED of them. The people who asked didn't know that their requests would ruin the game, probably. They just didn't care that their ill advised and hasty requests could have side effects.

LIKE THE PEOPLE YOU'VE BEEN DEFENDING. Honestly, you people... so blind.

SITH_ShadowCat
09-23-2003, 09:47 PM
I don't get why people argue so. Spider, I must congratulate you for standing your ground with mature responses and flameless posts. If the community was more like this then we would get patches that work, and answers to problems we thought were unsolvable. The game is fine as it is and until I see every single person agreeing that something is wrong and needs a patch. I see a lot of people complain about there tactic being taken away, but people, I guarantee there is a way.

And your wrong, Rumor. This IS the place for depating.

Kurgan
09-23-2003, 11:09 PM
I think some people have some unrealistic expectations.

They want JA to be identical to JK2.

They want JA to be a totally new game that is a revolutionary jump forward from JK2.

They want the entire JK2 community to instantly be transplanted to JA on day one (again, the full version has only been available worldwide for about 3 days, the US for 5 days).

They JA to be 100% balanced and bug free.

They want JA to be balanced how they want it (ie: they want certain moves more powerful, others nerfed, some removed, others added, etc). Everybody wants something different...

They want the community to cater to their whims (be all honorable, be all competative, play the gametypes they want, use the moves they want, play in the style they want, share the same opinons they do, etc).

Once we realize that these expectations make no more sense applying to JA as they did to JK2, hopefully we can move on and just enjoy the game or stop whining and play something else more to our liking (or start modding the game to something we prefer).

While the JK2 patches did change parts of gameplay that caused players aggravation, it did also do some good. It fixed exploits and bugs that were damaging to gameplay enjoyment. 1.04 added features (in the console) which were also very welcome and not present or stable in 1.02. So that patches were not all bad, but I agree that some parts should have been "gotten right" right off the bat and the people who whined for certain things probably should have been ignored. But as we all know, hindsight is 20/20, and I'm sure at the time it seemed like the right thing to do to Raven/LA.

Kurgan
09-23-2003, 11:10 PM
Well I tested it out and I honestly couldn't see this "nerfing."

I fire a fully charged shot and then immediately switch out and I can leap around with my saber just like in JK2.

The only time I noticed anything close to a delay was in Siege Mode, when playing as a Mercenary Scout (who starts with the Disruptor). However even then it didn't seem consistent, so perhaps it was an intentional "balancing feature."

Was that right? Or is this delay only after making a kill with the gun?

I could test some more, but I think perhaps its just people's imagination running wild or lag (as I said before, lag makes it harder to hit anybody, with the Disruptor or any gun).


Debate is fine, but it has to be constructive. No flaming or personal attacks. Bugs are either there are they aren't, gameplay is something people can argue about till the cows come home if they want to, but in the end it won't matter unless there's a patch (and there will be always people who won't be satisfied even then) or you make a mod that caters to your whims...

masterpayin
09-23-2003, 11:46 PM
I want to see the game fairly balanced. You get a lot more health per force for Lvl3 Draining someone that from Lvl3 Healing yourself.... Plus you are taking force from them with drain... that needs to be fixed... a lot needs too be balanced.. nothing overly powerful without big drawbacks, nothing overly weak without big plusses... (i.e. blue is fast, but you can block practically all blaster fire... etc... like that...)

Smood
09-23-2003, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Rumor, grow up. You sound like a young child.
Screed, my clan's been insulted by more articulate people than you

Originally posted by Spider AL
Even if you were ten times the wit that you are...

:laughing:

cheeto101
09-23-2003, 11:55 PM
K, read this thread, spider didnt say anything wrong of flame no one till you guys started raggin on him. And even still, hes bein pretty damn civil.
Im so sick an tired of all the bloody "elite" players sayin "we can say whatever we want(ahem, jarjar)" and then followin it up with "oh you have no place in this thread(ahem, rumor)" . The forums are for debate, meaning anyone can post their opinion wherever the hell they want.

You got a beef with the game, fine, whatever, post your damn opinion, but when the casual gamers speek up and dont want to see your changes, you should show a little curtosy and treat them with a little respect
Excuse us if we have a life and dont enjoy playin 24 7 and bustin out on competative ladders. We still have the right to play the game, and to post on this forum in whatever freakin thread we want.


And anyways, i tried the sniper thing, i didnt find much of a diff from JO.

Rumor
09-23-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Overpowering a move is as bad as nerfing other moves. BALANCE is the ever unattainable goal. It can't be realistically attained, but it can be striven for, and 1.03 was more imbalanced than 1.02.

As for Raven, they did what the community ASKED of them. The people who asked didn't know that their requests would ruin the game, probably. They just didn't care that their ill advised and hasty requests could have side effects.

LIKE THE PEOPLE YOU'VE BEEN DEFENDING. Honestly, you people... so blind.

so blind? do you really think that we are dumb enough to not thing about what it would do to the game? do you see us whining about getting owned and how x feature is ruining the game? no. we found an imbalance which could destory a large COMMUNITY and we are trying to bring it to RAVEN's attention. YOU are the one that is blind. we thought everything through before we even spoke up. and since you guys know so much about s/o ctf, show us how damn good you are or shut the **** up. do you see me saying that "gunz r 4 n00bz get some skillz u lamerz" or "NF IZ 4 LOZARS WHO CANT HANDLE MANAGING DER FORZ POWERZ!"? no, you don't. we thought through every solution to OUR (notice our, not yours. if it isnt your problem then why are you still here? oh yeah, trolls, my bad) problem in respect to everyone else's gametype/play method, and this is what would suit us ALL.

THE OPTION TO TURN IT ON FOR OUR SERVERS, BUT HAVE IT OFF BY DEFAULT SINCE EVERYONE ELSE THINKS ITS "LAME" AND "TAKES NO SKILL"

Smood
09-24-2003, 12:08 AM
Posted by JarJar Binks
We're allowed to say whatever changes we want to see in the game, and you can't do a thing about it.


Posted by Spider AL
Incorrect actually.


Posted by cheeto101
K, read this thread, spider didnt say anything wrong of flame no one till you guys started raggin on him. And even still, hes bein pretty damn civil.
Im so sick an tired of all the bloody "elite" players sayin "we can say whatever we want(ahem, jarjar)" and then followin it up with "oh you have no place in this thread(ahem, rumor)" . The forums are for debate, meaning anyone can post their opinion wherever the hell they want.


It seems Cheeto, that spider AL would do well with that lesson himself. Please direct it at him as well.

Rumor
09-24-2003, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by cheeto101
K, read this thread, spider didnt say anything wrong of flame no one till you guys started raggin on him. And even still, hes bein pretty damn civil.
Im so sick an tired of all the bloody "elite" players sayin "we can say whatever we want(ahem, jarjar)" and then followin it up with "oh you have no place in this thread(ahem, rumor)" . The forums are for debate, meaning anyone can post their opinion wherever the hell they want.

You got a beef with the game, fine, whatever, post your damn opinion, but when the casual gamers speek up and dont want to see your changes, you should show a little curtosy and treat them with a little respect
Excuse us if we have a life and dont enjoy playin 24 7 and bustin out on competative ladders. We still have the right to play the game, and to post on this forum in whatever freakin thread we want.


And anyways, i tried the sniper thing, i didnt find much of a diff from JO.

we didn't get curt with them till they started bashing on us. the "we have no life" **** is about old. most of us have jobs, school, girlfriends/wives, not to mention doing **** with our friends. no life? i doubt that.

and spider is being totally civil?

no more than walking up to us and slapping us in the face with his glove and demanding we duel him with hounour at daybreak the next day.

Spider AL
09-24-2003, 12:51 AM
Quite so cheeto101, Kurgan.

Rumor:

and spider is being totally civil?He didn't say I was being totally civil. Just pretty civil considering all the rot you've been posting, insulting, presumably just to try to get a rise out of me. Frankly I'm shocked at my OWN self-control. Woot. :D

so blind? do you really think that we are dumb enough to not thing about what it would do to the game?Since I've TOLD you what it might do to the community, I know you know. So now I just think that you don't care. Wait six months, make a mod, or ask for one single patch with one single gameplay change that will only be an option in Sabres-Only CTF, none other and NO OTHER GAMEPLAY CHANGES AT ALL. Those are the three options I can see that may not harm the total community. If I were you, I'd take one of them, and cease demanding an insta-gameplay-patch. It can only be damaging.

and since you guys know so much about s/o ctf, show us how damn good you are or shut the **** up. Shut the four-star up, eh? How mature you are. Nobody who's disagreeing with you has tried to tell you ANYTHING about NG CTF, and yet you and others are still coming out with things like this, things that amount to: "WE PLAY THE TRUE GAME BETTER THAN YOU SO STFU NOOB". It's appalingly childish.

Ah, and Smood's oozed in. Hello Smood, I remember you. You're one of the people who tried to ruin JO the way these people are trying to ruin JA, aren't you? You'll not get a rise out of me by quoting portions of my replies to flames out of context. Better luck next time. ;)

Jeff 42
09-24-2003, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Well I tested it out and I honestly couldn't see this "nerfing."

I fire a fully charged shot and then immediately switch out and I can leap around with my saber just like in JK2.

The only time I noticed anything close to a delay was in Siege Mode, when playing as a Mercenary Scout (who starts with the Disruptor). However even then it didn't seem consistent, so perhaps it was an intentional "balancing feature."

Was that right? Or is this delay only after making a kill with the gun?
I'm not sure what to tell you other than that you're wrong. There is definitely a delay after you fire a charged shot before you can do anything else. I'm not sure if it's always a consistent amount of time; it seems to be between .5 and 1 second. I know it's not just me experiencing this because a lot of other people have said the same thing.

Smood
09-24-2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Ah, and Smood's oozed in. Hello Smood, I remember you. You're one of the people who tried to ruin JO the way these people are trying to ruin JA, aren't you? You'll not get a rise out of me by quoting portions of my replies to flames out of context. Better luck next time. ;)


Hahaha. Actually I just played the game with the ghoul2 cvar. That was my only desire, and I was forced to play on my own server with it on.

You are quick to judge, and believe you are absolute and always correct. As if some being of yours is higher then all others and can give truth to the true resolution. Although you have a strong standpoint, you fail to see the POTENTIALLY positive standpoints of others.

Spider AL
09-24-2003, 02:59 PM
You are quick to judge, and believe you are absolute and always correct.Silly people who wish to attack me always say nonsense like this.

You'll note that I don't post in most of threads on this board, if not 98% or more. The small percentage of threads I get involved in, are the ones which I feel strongly about. So of course I believe I'm correct, otherwise I wouldn't be sitting around here arguing my case now, would I.

YOU believe you're correct, apparently. I suppose that makes you an arrogant and bad person. One of us is deluded and hypocritical, and it isn't me.

As if some being of yours is higher then all others and can give truth to the true resolution.This makes no sense. Are you a scientologist or something? :confused:

Although you have a strong standpoint, you fail to see the POTENTIALLY positive standpoints of others.Heh heh. The only positive outcome of the requests of the NG CTFers is that NG CTF might be more fun for them. The NEGATIVE outcomes are many and varied. They can't endanger the whole future of JA just to ressurect a game mode they happened to like in the previous game.

And what a load of stock claptrap to be honest. If I thought these people's argument was largely positive, I'd be supporting them OF COURSE. I don't go around arguing with people I agree with. I'm glad you think my standpoint is strong, though.

Rumor
09-24-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Quite so cheeto101, Kurgan.

Rumor:

He didn't say I was being totally civil. Just pretty civil considering all the rot you've been posting, insulting, presumably just to try to get a rise out of me. Frankly I'm shocked at my OWN self-control. Woot. :D


eloquence should not be mistaken for being civil.

Rumor
09-24-2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Silly people who wish to attack me always say nonsense like this.

You'll note that I don't post in most of threads on this board, if not 98% or more. The small percentage of threads I get involved in, are the ones which I feel strongly about. So of course I believe I'm correct, otherwise I wouldn't be sitting around here arguing my case now, would I.

YOU believe you're correct, apparently. I suppose that makes you an arrogant and bad person. One of us is deluded and hypocritical, and it isn't me.

This makes no sense. Are you a scientologist or something? :confused:

Heh heh. The only positive outcome of the requests of the NG CTFers is that NG CTF might be more fun for them. The NEGATIVE outcomes are many and varied. They can't endanger the whole future of JA just to ressurect a game mode they happened to like in the previous game.

And what a load of stock claptrap to be honest. If I thought these people's argument was largely positive, I'd be supporting them OF COURSE. I don't go around arguing with people I agree with. I'm glad you think my standpoint is strong, though.

yet again you only think about yourself. seeing as the competitive clans talked together about the best solution that would not damage other gametypes and the ability to toggle the kicks, etc., came out as the best option. you claim we didn't think about anyone but ourselves, but it is infact you that is doing such.

and six months? are you insane? there won't be anyone even remotely interested by then. and you say we are stupid and ignorant and don't think of the consequences? :rolleyes:

griff38
09-24-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Well I tested it out and I honestly couldn't see this "nerfing."

I fire a fully charged shot and then immediately switch out and I can leap around with my saber just like in JK2.

The only time I noticed anything close to a delay was in Siege Mode, when playing as a Mercenary Scout (who starts with the Disruptor). However even then it didn't seem consistent, so perhaps it was an intentional "balancing feature."

Was that right? Or is this delay only after making a kill with the gun?

I could test some more, but I think perhaps its just people's imagination running wild or lag (as I said before, lag makes it harder to hit anybody, with the Disruptor or any gun).


Debate is fine, but it has to be constructive. No flaming or personal attacks. Bugs are either there are they aren't, gameplay is something people can argue about till the cows come home if they want to, but in the end it won't matter unless there's a patch (and there will be always people who won't be satisfied even then) or you make a mod that caters to your whims...


Jeff I have to agree with Kurgan on this one. What is going on is now you are ALLOWED to move around in 2ndary sniper mode. You can get out of it just as fast as JO if you select another weapon. So, you are not stuck in sniper mode after firing, you are just being allowed to STAY in the mode if you wish. Once I adjust to it I think it will work better for sniping than JO.
If anything this extra feature for the Tenloss adds more options for the sniper. :D

SITH_ShadowCat
09-24-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
yet again you only think about yourself. seeing as the competitive clans talked together about the best solution that would not damage other gametypes and the ability to toggle the kicks, etc., came out as the best option. you claim we didn't think about anyone but ourselves, but it is infact you that is doing such.

and six months? are you insane? there won't be anyone even remotely interested by then. and you say we are stupid and ignorant and don't think of the consequences? :rolleyes:

Seriously, Rumor, the way you talk seems to suggest your only thinking of your self. But I bet both you and Spider have your reasons for defending your place, but the wrong thing about you is your breaking out and cussing out Spider who's been talking as if he's running against you for president. I say enough of this childness and move on.

As for six month not being reasonable time, I'd say you have never obviously played online. This game will be far from dead. Even if not one single person will play it, I will. I'll host a server, it might not be the best but it'll be there. And just look at JK1, that game still has people playing and just look at how old it is. Hell, I'd go and play it now seeing as its the only game were my 56k works.

masterpayin
09-24-2003, 10:47 PM
This is getting way off topic and should be locked.... I tried to keep it straight, but who would pay attention to me? There seems to be a 1 page requirement for a post to be read...

JDKnite188
09-24-2003, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
do you see us whining about getting owned and how x feature is ruining the game? no. we found an imbalance which could destory a large COMMUNITY and we are trying to bring it to RAVEN's attention. [/B]

A "nerfed" sniper rifle (still many including me don't see this problem) won't destroy a large community. There are other weapons, anyway. Personally, I find the Tenloss just as enjoyable as JK2, and sniping in Siege is great!

Patches can destroy communities (see JK2). Not insignficant game issues.

P.S. Stop bashing Spider Al. He has a right to . . . what's that word . . . AN OPINION!!!!!1111!!!one!!!!un!!!!111numerouno

Spider AL
09-24-2003, 11:37 PM
eloquence should not be mistaken for being civil.Aww shucks Rumor, thanks. You people are just full of compliments today. My standpoint is strong, I'm eloquent...

seeing as the competitive clans talked together about the best solution that would not damage other gametypes and the ability to toggle the kicks, etc., came out as the best option.Heh heh, I've explained several times how your "best option" could damage or trigger the damage of the whole community. If that was the best option your mates could come up with, fine, but don't declare that it "would not damage other gametypes". Of course it could.

Btw thanks for your support, cheeto, Shadow and JDK. Hope to see you all at the primaries!

Did I say primaries? I meant in the game! :eek:

Rumor
09-25-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Aww shucks Rumor, thanks. You people are just full of compliments today. My standpoint is strong, I'm eloquent...

Heh heh, I've explained several times how your "best option" could damage or trigger the damage of the whole community. If that was the best option your mates could come up with, fine, but don't declare that it "would not damage other gametypes". Of course it could.

Btw thanks for your support, cheeto, Shadow and JDK. Hope to see you all at the primaries!

Did I say primaries? I meant in the game! :eek:

like i said al. have it OFF by default and the average joe won't have a clue that it exists. that way only people who WANT it will have it.

Jeff 42
09-25-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by griff38
Jeff I have to agree with Kurgan on this one. What is going on is now you are ALLOWED to move around in 2ndary sniper mode. You can get out of it just as fast as JO if you select another weapon. So, you are not stuck in sniper mode after firing, you are just being allowed to STAY in the mode if you wish. Once I adjust to it I think it will work better for sniping than JO.
If anything this extra feature for the Tenloss adds more options for the sniper. :D
Once again, I'm not sure what to say to you other than that you're wrong. I dunno, I guess maybe it's something that would, for the most part, only be noticed by upper-level players. If you're used to just standing in place and sniping people it won't make much difference. For me, when I snipe at someone I (usually) click my right mouse button to zoom out almost instantly after releasing the left mouse button to fire, and then I immediately start moving. In JA there is definitely a delay after you fire where you can't do anything (including switching to another weapon) other than slowly walk around in zoomed in mode.

Edit: For reference you can watch my sniping movie and see how most of the times when I snipe at someone the scope view disappears from the screen virtually at the same time as the beam appears from my gun. You simply cannot do this in JA.

idontlikegeorge
09-25-2003, 01:30 AM
Oh please. You use one example to try to prove the sweeping generalization that gameplay changing patches ruin games.

CS, DoD, JO. Among others.

Sure, 1.03 sucked, but on the other hand, I personally think 1.04 is the best version of JK2...

Personally, I really saw no difference in 1.03 and 1.04. Besides "whore moves" being "fixed" in 1.04. It's was just fixing the symptoms, that's all.

The problem, and my protest against patched JO MP, was that they completely changed the sabers - making them weaker, and harder to score hits. Where did that first change come from? Who decided that? I don't remember anybody from the old community wanting that; if anything people bitched about heavy stance and DFA whoring. Which would have been fixed with better saber hit detection.

But instead, they made sabers harder to score hits, and do less damage when they do. And people start whoring moves that go through the absurd blocking and kill. Then people bitch about whored moves, they get "fixed." Like giving cough syrup when an antibiotic should be administered.

They made gameplay changes in 1.03 when they just needed to fix what was wrong in 1.02f. Which caused even worse problems, which even you agree on: "1.03 sucked."

I'll just reiterate: if this delay from scope zoom isn't intended, it should be fixed. But for one thing, maybe it's just you.

So, a weapon seems slightly different then your favorite from JO. Adapt.

Prime
09-25-2003, 02:51 AM
If the competative S/O competative community is all in agreement, then why not go with a custom mod? You'll be able to get exactly what you want, and community fragmentation won't be an issue because that community all wants the same thing. Wouldn't having complete control over the mod be appealing? There certainly should be enough customization options to do everything you guys want.

Rumor
09-25-2003, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by SITH_ShadowCat
Seriously, Rumor, the way you talk seems to suggest your only thinking of your self. But I bet both you and Spider have your reasons for defending your place, but the wrong thing about you is your breaking out and cussing out Spider who's been talking as if he's running against you for president. I say enough of this childness and move on.

As for six month not being reasonable time, I'd say you have never obviously played online. This game will be far from dead. Even if not one single person will play it, I will. I'll host a server, it might not be the best but it'll be there. And just look at JK1, that game still has people playing and just look at how old it is. Hell, I'd go and play it now seeing as its the only game were my 56k works.

i never said everyone.

i said the community. by that community i mean the ff/so community. it will not exist in 6 months if something is not done.

Rumor
09-25-2003, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by Prime
If the competative S/O competative community is all in agreement, then why not go with a custom mod? You'll be able to get exactly what you want, and community fragmentation won't be an issue because that community all wants the same thing. Wouldn't having complete control over the mod be appealing? There certainly should be enough customization options to do everything you guys want.

and it will take how long to release the sdk?

3 months? 6? more?

FurionStormrage
09-25-2003, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by Rumor
and it will take how long to release the sdk?

3 months? 6? more?

There's no SDK for Battlefield 1942 yet that hasn't stopped anyone from creating and playing the Desert Combat mod. As a matter of fact, the DC mod to BF 1942 is so far beyond the gameplay of BF without a mod that I don't even play unmodded BF anymore. If the DC team were to charge for this mod I would freely buy it, it's that good.

No one NEEDS the SDK to create mods. It makes it easier, but it's not REQUIRED...

EDIT: I guess you are proving the weiner dog incorrect. You are asserting that you don't have an SDK, but JO = 85% JA. Therefore, you have 85% of the SDK. :rolleyes: