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View Full Version : Is the jawa model bugged? (Raven says "no")


Tarus
09-22-2003, 04:37 AM
Is it just me or is this model messed up? More and more people are using jawas and I really dislike it. Seems like when fighting jawas more of my shots go through their robes without striking for damage. Im not sure if its just me or due to the stretched nature of the model that players aren't suppose to have.

When fighting 'normal' people, I always see my saber going through them and getting blocked but with the jawa I actually see my stabs and, sometimes, slashes passing through without anything. It is really getting on my nerves.

UberJedi_4
10-03-2003, 11:46 PM
hmmm i have never payed much attention once in a while i will use the jawa skin but i dont use it much i will have to look at that and if that is the case then that would be a good defensive manuever just use the jawa :jawa :jawa :jawa

aletoledo
10-04-2003, 12:45 AM
I've noticed the same problems, but it seems to be all models (or a lot of them at least), rather than isolated to the jawa.

TK-8252
11-13-2003, 03:53 AM
Yes, the Jawa model is bugged. I've been told not to let people use the Jawa model at the JK3Files server. I'm guessing that there must be a connection with the model being messed up and there being no icons, team colors, or multiplayer taunt for the Jawa made by Raven.

Kurgan
11-13-2003, 06:03 AM
No offense but I think you're dead wrong.

The model may have goofy robes but the hit detection is the same.

Why does that JK3servers server ban the Jawa model? I bet you anything they don't ban for the other 12 "hidden skins" which also have no portrait pic, team colors or multiplayer taunt.

Hypocrisy.

The fact is, Raven removed the exploit skins already (the "torso only" models). The Jawa and all the others were left in.

They aren't cheats and they are fair game. Being the Jawa grants you no advantages at all (except around me because I get sad when I hear the plaintive cry of a dying Jawa.. makes me sad.. sniff, ahem! where was I?).


Jawa skin = NOT an exploit (put in on purpose rather) = NOT a bug = Wasn't removed in Patch, therefore LEGIT.


Now if the Jawa was actually little say, THEN it might be a problem, but he's sized according to the same as the other models.
Banning for Jawa skin = Stupid, Pointless & Paranoid


Besides, I don't think I've ever lost to somebody using the skin EVER, except once (and it was only a few duels) when I first got the game and wasn't very good. ; )


PS: No offense intended for the JK3files server, peeps, but I think they're just being paranoid. Then again, isn't JK3files part of JK2files? And isn't this the server that Unnamed is always bragging about getting banned from all the time? ; P

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-13-2003, 06:36 AM
The greatest thing about the jawa skin is the effect it has on the people using it. They feel an instant brotherhood with all the other players using the jawa skin. I frequently see them saying "jawas band together!", "don't kill other jawas!", "jawas against humans!", etc. It's actually very funny and sweet:jawa

Manquesa
11-13-2003, 07:19 AM
Yeah I was in an FFA once and there were several people using the Jawa skin. They all banded together and it ended up being an unofficial TFFA for a while, Jawas against all other players. Everybody teamed up against the Jawas and the Jawas of course stuck together, it was soo funny. Best fun I had in a long time.

And I love the sound of a Jawa dying btw. (At least in this game)

Jawa8578
11-13-2003, 02:41 PM
Yes sad.
The problems occur with all models due to the shaky physics (that were shaky in JK2 and worse here, but in neither case has raven bothered to fix them). The jawa model is exactly the same as the others, providing you're not playing some sort of model class game.
There is a game where small models are harder to hit, but in return have less force powers/fewer guns etc. Bigger models are easier to hit but get more firepower etc. This mode was basically crap so I've not seen any servers running it.

Elijah
11-13-2003, 02:56 PM
The hit boxes for all the models/weapons in this game are very very buggy... I've had pistol duels and both me and my friends have seen bullets go through the other players chest and have nothing happen.

Strideur
11-13-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
or multiplayer taunt for the Jawa made by Raven.

My Jawa has the same taunts as everyone else :confused:

KaiaSowapit
11-13-2003, 05:15 PM
I'm no code monkey, but from what I understand hit detection is based on the Kyle model, regardless of whatever skin/model you use in multiplayer.

So yes, since the Jawa isn't quite as svelte as Kyle, there's bound to be areas of his body that don't respond to a blaster shot or saber slash. The same could be said of that tub of lard, Greelo or even Tavion and her feminine protuberances.

No offense to the gang at the JK3Files server, but frankly I think restricting players from using the Jawa model due to perceived balance issues is ridiculous.

Also, I wouldn't read a whole lot into the Jawa model not having icons, team skins, etc. If you take a look at the "hazardtrooper" for example, that model DOES have team colors but ISN'T compatible with multiplayer. Go figure, Raven ain't perfect.

Lathain Valtiel
11-13-2003, 05:17 PM
...Besides, I slice and dice them all the same. Heh.

Prime
11-13-2003, 05:35 PM
What is with so many peoples' facination with the Jawa model?

Lathain Valtiel
11-13-2003, 05:52 PM
That's a great question.

cheeto101
11-13-2003, 06:21 PM
hahaha its their sound, man, a jawa taunting is hilarious.

I dunno though, ive heard that the damage model for the jawa is different (i.e they take less damage) but thats just what ive heard, im not sure how to check on that or anything. (haha hey my 100th post, cool)

Akshara
11-13-2003, 08:06 PM
What is with so many peoples' facination with the Jawa model?
It's the hooded robes... there aren't any cool ingame models where the Jedi are wearing hooded robes. If Raven were to release ONE official Jedi model that had a set of robes with a hood, then we'd probably see everybody using it as well.

TK-8252
11-13-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Strideur
My Jawa has the same taunts as everyone else :confused: Yes, you are confused indeed. All most all the multiplayer characters have missing sounds thanks to some of the morons at Raven. I have made a mod that fixes this, among other things.

I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR INSULTING MY SERVER, Kurgan. You know ShroomDuck? The famous TMBJ mapper? He has determined that the Jawa model is bugged, and he is no paranoid fool. Therefore, we are not allowing a bugged model on our server so that there are no unfair advantages. And Kurgan, you just mayed an extremely stupid statement, saying that we would ban other skins that are direct reskins of the models WITH icons. Don't be stupid. I use the Stormtrooper officer skin, which is one of those console activated skins. Kurgan, just because a server has the same rules as 90% of the other servers, does not mean they are a bunch of paranoid, stupid fools. THAT is why unnamed gets banned from there, because people like him make it their goal in life to make the lives of people in other servers MISREABLE. BTW, unnamed has been banned from THESE FORUMS, so using him as an example to back you up was not a good idea.

And Kurgan, why would the Jawa not have been given icons, team colors, a bot, and proper sounds if there was not something wrong with it?

Akshara
11-13-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally stated by Obi-Wan Kenobi
Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise.

Then how come in the movies they never hit *anybody*.

:p

GunShark
11-13-2003, 10:45 PM
Not to pee anyone off here but i use the jawa and play against others with it and found it to have no more problems over the other models, if i duel someone with the jawa skin i find it no difficult to cut it down to size than any other model unless theres a better skilled player controlling it. if the fact there are no MP icons bot files team colours ect then all other hidden skins should not be used either as if there where intended for MP use then they would be in the character selection screen, i consider all *HIDDEN* MP skins that can be used as a bonus extra or easter eggs, could it be the jawa skin is for FFA or DUEL only and not for team games. If i put these rules into the duel server i run from time to time i would have to ban the ST officer skin too. I have looked over the jawa skin and determined that it gives no more or less of an advantage than any other MP usable skin

Also i'm not sure you shold be calling the guys at raven morons, moron. Yes there have been mistakes and errors with the game and they are trying there best within the ground rules layed down to them by LA and Activision to make things better. If you fell you can do better why not patch it yourself or better still apply for a job at raven?

And as for someone confused as their jawa has same taunts as other MP skins well you being insulting to someone right there since i use the jawa and all the taunts are unique and sound like a jawa.

Strideur you may want to post some more info on the jawa problem as it shouldn't sound like any other character on the server, it could be that if the server isn't using it but you are then you see a jawa but everyone else may see a defualt model E.G. kyle and that may be why you hear normal voice taunts.

Peace too all, thats my 2p's worth

Kurgan
11-13-2003, 11:48 PM
I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR INSULTING MY SERVER, Kurgan. You know ShroomDuck? The famous TMBJ mapper? He has determined that the Jawa model is bugged, and he is no paranoid fool.

Sorry, but it would be nice to see some hard evidence. The burden of proof is on you guys to show that the Jawa model is "bugged" (moreso than any other in-game usable model), since you're the one's claming it is and enforcing bans on people who use it.

One third party mapper's opinion doesn't hold that much weight (hearsay), after all he could simply be mistaken or being misquoted. It would be nice if Raven would confirm this one way or the other of course, since they would know more than any of us.

Therefore, we are not allowing a bugged model on our server so that there are no unfair advantages.

All I'm saying is I've had tons of people use the Jawa model on my server and used it myself and I have not witnessed any of these so-called "advantages" you speak of. So why should I believe you? Show me something in the coding or a statement from Raven and you'll have convinced me.


And Kurgan, you just mayed an extremely stupid statement, saying that we would ban other skins that are direct reskins of the models WITH icons.

All I'm saying is that saying that the skin lacks team colors and a player portrait icon and its own taunt are not reasons why it's "bugged" or an exploit, because 12 other skins have the same attributes.

Using your logic it would seem necessary to ban those other models as well since they conform to the criteria you provided. The Jawa model uses the same animations and is the same height as the other models after all (they're all based on the Kyle model).

I think because the Jawa model LOOKS different and is so popular people are just assuming something bad about it for which they have no proof.

A few of the hidden skins actually have portrait icons (the two Imp officers from JK2 and the ST officer) but not team colors. So are they semi-exploits?

Raven knew about the Jawa skin. They removed a ton of exploits with the patch. If the Jawa skin was an exploit, why didn't they remove it or make it only accessible with cheats?


Don't be stupid. I use the Stormtrooper officer skin, which is one of those console activated skins. Kurgan, just because a server has the same rules as 90% of the other servers, does not mean they are a bunch of paranoid, stupid fools.

So you're saying 90% of servers ban for the Jawa skin? This is news to me. I didn't say the people were stupid, only their actions. And by their actions they certainly sound paranoid. It would be like if somebody started banning for using the purple saber, because they heard some mapper say it did more damage than the other colors.

Then again, that doesn't say anything really. If 90% of servers enforced the "sabers off = peace" and "bow before duels" rules, I can still say those are stupid rules. As an admin I make my own rules, which is my right, I don't have to follow any made up consensus. And other admins can feel free to agree with me. I see nothing wrong with the Jawa skin and I allow it along with all other skins that come with the game.

As with my example of the "sabers off = peace" and "bow before duels" rules, the trouble with those is that many assume that those rules should be universal and try to enforce that rule on everyone, forcing their interpretation of the game down everyone else's throats. There is nothing in the game that says those rules should be enforced, indicating their player made-up origin. Likewise I think the "ban people for using Jawa skin" rule seems also to be made up and carries with it the same false-universality enforcement bias.


THAT is why unnamed gets banned from there, because people like him make it their goal in life to make the lives of people in other servers MISREABLE.

I can't say I know his innermost feelings, but in a way I think he has a point. Some admins are way too uptight and get way too excited about people not strictly adhering to a long laundry list of rules. These are the guys who use their admin mods to "enforce conformity" and stuff.

Sure, nobody likes a jerk, and if he's being one on purpose, I can't blame him for getting banned. But still, I think I agree with his attitude that some admins need to lighten up.

Now if you're banning him for using the Jawa skin, I rest my case.
; )


BTW, unnamed has been banned from THESE FORUMS, so using him as an example to back you up was not a good idea.

Yeah and in fact *I* was the one who banned him! And *I* was also the one who UNbanned him later after he'd served his time. Your point?

If he was still breaking the rules he'd be gone!


And Kurgan, why would the Jawa not have been given icons, team colors, a bot, and proper sounds if there was not something wrong with it?

The following skins are only accessible through the console (the same as the Jawa, jedi/j2, stormtrooper/officer, imperial/officer and imperial/commander), have no team skins, and no "proper sounds" (use sounds from other models):

reborn_twin/boss
tavion_new/possessed
cultist/brown
human_merc/key_carrier
human_merc/racto
jedi/master
prisoner/elder
prison/elder2
prisoner/merchant
trandoshan/sp
weequay/sp
reborn/boss


The jedi/j2, stormtrooper/officer, imperial/officer and imperial/commander have the same problems as the above except they have portraits (note that their portraits are drawn in a different style than the others... a torso shot rather than a face shot).

Note that they don't have bots either, but you can easily make bots for them or even simply assign bot profiles to them using the other bots by editing one text file.

The "team colors" skins can be used in FFA and other non team games too, incidentally, and they have no bot support (except in team games). They also don't have unique taunts (they use the same taunts as their non team colored verisons) but they have portrait icons.

Did you know that Lando has no bot support? Chewbacca uses Luke's bot file. Does that mean they are exploits or "bugged" too?

Most of the JA skins that were also in JK2 lack their proper taunts. Note how most of them say a generic "take that!" instead of the taunts they had in JK2. So what does that prove?

All I'm saying is that the logic of your argument just doesn't hold together.

So far you've made some accusations (that it makes you harder to hit or something) which of course others have said are problems with ALL models and not just the Jawa and you've used the appeal to popularity implying that "90%" of servers (presumably) also ban it and appeal to authority with a mapper who says its an exploit.

No offense, but I'd like to see some harder evidence...


PS: It is true that without team colors these "hidden" skins look out of place in team games. However, you can still tell what team a person is on quite simply. By default the game is setup so that members of your own team will have same color team beacons over their heads (Rebels or Imperials). Additionally, by looking at your teammates you can see their names in Green (allies) or Enemies (red). These options may be off on your server, but they are client side so toggling them on means never being fooled.

Additionally on your radar you can see your teammates as green "arrow" shapes, so if a Jawa is nearby and he shows up as green, he's on your team, if not, blast him!

Force Seeing can reveal who is on your team. Players will glow different colors to differentiate who they are, regardless of what model they are using. Blue glow = Blue team. Red glow = red team.

Finally, putting your crosshair over a character will tell you if they are friend or foe (again assuming you didn't turn this identify target crosshair option OFF in the setup menu). Green crosshair = ally. Red crosshair = enemy.

Iblis Reborn
11-14-2003, 12:27 AM
OMG purple sabers are more powerfull! BAN IT QUICK! ;)

id like to know what proof there is too
ive fought jawas a plenty and never found them to be any diffrent

Kurgan
11-14-2003, 12:54 AM
I'd like to say right now that if it turns out I'm WRONG and the Jawa model really is "bugged" and gives a real advantage to players (and is therefore an exploit) I will eat crow on here.

That's a promise.

cheeto101
11-14-2003, 02:56 AM
yeah, actually, i havnt noticed too much of a diff when facing jawas, they seem to lose as often as everyone else. Ive just heard rumors

KaiaSowapit
11-14-2003, 08:09 AM
Does no one ever read my posts?

I believe I proposed a very reasonable explanation for discrepancies in model hit detection, based on conversations with respected coders/modders (not mapping gurus).

It's my understanding that in JK2, hit detection (whether or not an attack on another player was registered as a "hit" or "miss"), was solely based on the most primitive LOD (level of detail) variation of the Kyle model. In other words, regardless of whatever model/skin you chose for your character in multiplayer, the game essentially "saw" you as Kyle. This potentially could work for or against a player, depending on what model/skin they chose.

For example, take any one of the various "BattleDroid" custom models available to the community. By design, these models have thinner arms and legs than Kyle. To the game's engine however, it doesn't matter. An attack that visually should appear as a "miss" against one of the Droid's skinny limbs may still very well register as a "hit" - simply because the game is calculating collision universally based on the Kyle model.

The same applies to the aforementioned "Greelo" model. His fat belly is considerably larger than Kyle's torso. As such, a strike at Greelo's tummy may very well NOT register as a "hit" - again, simply because the game is calculating collision based on the Kyle model.

Is this concept so radically complex it's unfathomable? Do I need to illustrate with crayons and finger paints? Am I using too many big words? Do I have to bungle my posts with insults, careless spelling, grammar and punctuation to be heard/understood?

Certainly it's plausible that Raven abandoned this system for Jedi Academy. That said, I think it's highly unlikely they went out of their way to create a separate hit-detection scheme solely for the Jawa model - specifically one that gives a player such an advantage that he/she is next to impossible to hit.

Given that Raven did made a point to remove exploitable models/skins from MP play in the latest patch (as Kurgan pointed out), I think it's ridiculous to assert that they simply overlooked this one.

If you want speculation as to why the Jawa by default has no icons or team skins, perhaps the folks at Raven merely felt that a six-foot-tall Jawa looked dorky. ;)

Prime
11-14-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Akshara
It's the hooded robes... there aren't any cool ingame models where the Jedi are wearing hooded robes. If Raven were to release ONE official Jedi model that had a set of robes with a hood, then we'd probably see everybody using it as well. So using the Jawa model makes people feel like a Jedi? Wierd.

Originally posted by TK8252MJL
thanks to some of the morons at Raven. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by TK8252MJL
He has determined that the Jawa model is buggedWhat is the bug?

Originally posted by TK8252MJL
And Kurgan, why would the Jawa not have been given icons, team colors, a bot, and proper sounds if there was not something wrong with it?There are lots of models that don't have icons, team colours, and sounds. Are they all bugged too because they don't have these things?

Originally posted by Kurgan
So you're saying 90% of servers ban for the Jawa skin? This is news to me. Indeed. Jawas appear to be everywhere online.

Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
If you want speculation as to why the Jawa by default has no icons or team skins, perhaps the folks at Raven merely felt that a six-foot-tall Jawa looked dorky. And they'd be right :)

Jawa8578
11-14-2003, 02:46 PM
Even if the jawa skin is bugged, banning it is still pointless.
I can play as kyle or any skin/model and the same shaky game physics mean I might miss a hit or take an extra hit. If the physics were working, then there's cause to ban bugged model, as the physics aren't working properly it makes no difference whatsoever.

If there is a bug, this is the reason why people can't see it - the physics aren't working correctly. If there isn't a bug, the jawa is still subject to the same shaky game physics as everyone else.

Prime
11-14-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Jawa8578
Even if the jawa skin is bugged, banning it is still pointless.
I can play as kyle or any skin/model and the same shaky game physics mean I might miss a hit or take an extra hit. If the physics were working, then there's cause to ban bugged model, as the physics aren't working properly it makes no difference whatsoever.

If there is a bug, this is the reason why people can't see it - the physics aren't working correctly. If there isn't a bug, the jawa is still subject to the same shaky game physics as everyone else. Whether the physics is shakey or not, I don't know (it seems acceptable for me on the good ping servers I play on). But if so, they are shakey for everyone equally, so what is the problem?

Jawa8578
11-14-2003, 03:36 PM
The point is that they are shaky...so they're not shaky for everyone, exactly the same way.
Some times a hit misses, other times it hits. Some times a miss misses, other times it hits. Although lag could make it worse, this is an actual bug that wass present in JK2, but is much more noticable here. It would appear that the damage boxes have caused the bug to escalate.
'Its shaky for everyone' So if you play competetively, you're just gonna accept that you lost because you were hit when it obviously missed?
Come on its like saying 10 names in a hat, I pick one and shoot him through the head and you saying
" Oh well we all have the same chance of dying"
Although that is true, it doesn't mean that we have to accept that someone is going to be shot. Be sensible plz, k thnx.

KaiaSowapit
11-14-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Jawa8578
...this is an actual bug that wass present in JK2...
No offense Jawa8578, but I hear one of two things; either sour grapes over latency/packet loss, or unrealistic expectations about what current hardware/software can deliver.

Then again, if you build a better game for $50 or less, I'll be happy to play it. :)

Akshara
11-14-2003, 09:46 PM
So using the Jawa model makes people feel like a Jedi? Wierd.
I don't think that's it... besides the "coolness" of playing an "illegal" character, I think it's just the novelty of playing a character in a hooded robe - makes one feel special. If there was a reborn or zabrak with a robe that would be pretty popular as well. It's my feeling that the reason there isn't a cool robed character is because of the reasons KaiaSowaPit describes above - the hit detection is for a non-robed character, Kyle. So Raven made all of the "official" characters like him - no robes.

As far as Greelo goes... why would anybody in their right mind actually want to use that skin? Except maybe crazy expolsions spamm... *ahem* I mean specialists.

:p

TK-8252
11-14-2003, 09:51 PM
Is the Jawa model a DIRECT RESKIN of a model WITH icons? No. That is why the Imperial/Officer, Reborn/Boss, etc. are NOT explots. Use some common sense, people. Kurgan, we do not BAN people for using the Jawa model. If someone is using the Jawa, we explain what we believe is wrong about it, and there has never been a time that they did not switch skins. ShroomDuck, Chrono, maybe others have tested the Jawa, by slicing a player using a Jawa in certain areas. Many times, a swing went straight through the model, with NO damage registered. That is why we have disallowed it. Oh yeah, and guys, the other hidden skins WERE given icons, but do not show up in the profile selection with the head shot icons. The Jawa has NO icon at all. Kurgan, you misunderstood what I said about how 90% of the other servers have the same rules. I meant the saber down= peace rule. People here tend to "bash" servers with these rules. The admins at the JK3Files server, including me, are NOT uptight at all. We don't ban at all, except for seriously offensive language directed towards other players. We do not ban for laming, as far as I know. If you are going to bash my server without even checking it out first, your opinion is worth very little.

Akshara: Watch the beginning of A New Hope, you'll see why Stormtroopers are the most feared soldiers of the Rebel fighters.

Akshara
11-14-2003, 10:26 PM
Watch the beginning of A New Hope, you'll see why Stormtroopers are the most feared soldiers of the Rebel fighters.
Thanks.. I saw it 33 times back in '77.

You are correct that they hit a couple of rebels during the initial capture of Leia's ship. However, from that point on except for a few Jawas and a couple of defensless farmers, they can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn.

I've just always thought it funny how after ObiWan makes that statement, they seem to lose the ability to aim for the rest of the series. I mean even a bunch of Ewoks with sticks kicked their butt.

All for fun, TK...

TK-8252
11-14-2003, 10:32 PM
Well, while Han, Luke, and Leia all had outstanding luck with dealing with Stormtroopers, all over the galaxy there were Stormtroopers conquering all who apposed them. Remember that there were billions, if not trillions of Stormtroopers spread out over the entire galaxy. So there was a lot being done in the galaxy that was never shown in the movies.

How did this turn into a discussion about Stormtroopers...? :D

Akshara
11-14-2003, 10:35 PM
Because you're so cute in that helmut... ;)

KaiaSowapit
11-15-2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Is the Jawa model a DIRECT RESKIN of a model WITH icons? No. That is why the Imperial/Officer, Reborn/Boss, etc. are NOT explots. Use some common sense, people.
I must be lacking in common sense. What the heck is a "DIRECT RESKIN" of a model? Are ANY of the default game models a DIRECT RESKIN of a model? Either way, what is the significance of whether or not a model/skin has an icon?

The skin for tavion_new/possessed has no icon. Is it bugged? Is using it cheating?

Rather than rely on "ShroomDuck, Chrono, maybe others" TK8252MJL, I have a suggestion: why don't you try the Jawa model for yourself? You're more than welcome to join my server and play as long as you like to determine whether or not it's an exploit. :)

BTW, for those of you scratching your heads out there... I goofed. I repeatedly referred to a "Greelo" model in my previous posts. There is NO "Greelo" model. The chubby Rodian's proper name is "Reelo." Sorry for any confusion my typo may have caused. Woops! :(

Strideur
11-15-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by GunShark
Strideur you may want to post some more info on the jawa problem as it shouldn't sound like any other character on the server, it could be that if the server isn't using it but you are then you see a jawa but everyone else may see a defualt model E.G. kyle and that may be why you hear normal voice taunts.


That's why I'm confused. All the jawa taunts work for me AND they all have the jawa voice. Nothing wrong here.

Prime
11-15-2003, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Jawa8578
The point is that they are shaky...so they're not shaky for everyone, exactly the same way.
Some times a hit misses, other times it hits. Some times a miss misses, other times it hits. Although lag could make it worse, this is an actual bug that wass present in JK2, but is much more noticable here. It would appear that the damage boxes have caused the bug to escalate. Fair enough. So if JO is so uncompatible with competative play, why bother with it at all?

Originally posted by Jawa8578
'Its shaky for everyone' So if you play competetively, you're just gonna accept that you lost because you were hit when it obviously missed? Yes, because I realize that that is the state of the game. I can hope for a perfect game, but I know am not going to get it. I understand that there are going to be flaws and inconsistencies due to technology. If these inconsistencies are too great, I would say that as a competative player I don't want to play this game. If I do, I have to accapt the limitations of it.

Originally posted by Jawa8578
Come on its like saying 10 names in a hat, I pick one and shoot him through the head and you saying
" Oh well we all have the same chance of dying"
Although that is true, it doesn't mean that we have to accept that someone is going to be shot. Personally, I don't think it is turned out that victors are determined by complete randomness. Better players still tend to win. If competative players demand that the best player win every single time, then stop playing JA. Demanding perfection isn't going to magically make it happen.

Originally posted by Jawa8578
Be sensible plz, k thnx. gfggkthxbye.

Akshara
11-15-2003, 06:26 AM
gfggkthxbye.

:D ... hilarious.

TK-8252
11-15-2003, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
I must be lacking in common sense. What the heck is a "DIRECT RESKIN" of a model? Are ANY of the default game models a DIRECT RESKIN of a model? Either way, what is the significance of whether or not a model/skin has an icon?

The skin for tavion_new/possessed has no icon. Is it bugged? Is using it cheating?

Rather than rely on "ShroomDuck, Chrono, maybe others" TK8252MJL, I have a suggestion: why don't you try the Jawa model for yourself? You're more than welcome to join my server and play as long as you like to determine whether or not it's an exploit. :) None of the models that are selected in the profile screen are the reskins. A direct reskin is a skin that was made directly off of a model, with no modifications done to the model itself. So if the base model is not bugged, the new skin wont be either. My point is: The Jawa has absolutely nothing made, such as icons, team colors, and bots for multiplayer. I assume that that must mean that for some reason, Raven tried to keep the Jawa out of the game. Some skins, like Imperial/Officer and Stormtrooper/Officer actually DO have icons, meaning that they were meant to be multiplayer compatable, but do to yet another of Raven's screwups, they still have to be activated in the console. And I've already seen enough buggy hits on the Jawa to make up my mind.

BTW, call me TK.

Jawa8578
11-15-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
No offense Jawa8578, but I hear one of two things; either sour grapes over latency/packet loss, or unrealistic expectations about what current hardware/software can deliver.

Then again, if you build a better game for $50 or less, I'll be happy to play it. :)


I hear one thing from you "I'm a complete moron who hasn't the slightest clue of what I speak of"

The bug can be fixed (such as x-mod for JK2) however, the devs in their infinite wisdom couldn't be bothered to fix the 2 year old bug and sold you the game.
Btw better competetive game for less than $50 = JK2
Fanboy game for $50 = JA

Akshara
11-15-2003, 10:49 AM
"I'm a complete moron who hasn't the slightest clue of what I speak of"
I rest my case.

KaiaSowapit
11-15-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Jawa8578
"I'm a complete moron who hasn't the slightest clue of what I speak of"
We're in agreement then. Fantastic!

BTW;

Jawa8578
Bantha Fodder
Registered: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 45

You didn't just happen to make a new account because your last one was banned for childish tantrums? Nah, couldn't be. ;)

Perhaps it was said best...
Originally posted by Akshara
There is a movement across the forums for all those who don't like JA, think it's uncompetitive, and think the removal of the "jump-kick" makes MP totally useless, to insult everybody who enjoys JA as being "unskilled noobs" who obviously sucked at JO. These kind of comments are generally either an espousal of ignorance at best; or the mark of "a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" at worst.
Amen.
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
None of the models that are selected in the profile screen are the reskins. A direct reskin is a skin that was made directly off of a model, with no modifications done to the model itself.
Do you honestly have any idea what you're talking about? Do you understand what a skin is... what a skin does? Perhaps you do, but frankly it doesn't appear that way.

A "skin" is nothing more than a collection of images and a text file. It does nothing more to the model "itself" than modify its visual appearance. I've never heard of a "direct reskin" and I'm hard pressed to imagine what other kinds of skins someone could propose there are supposed to be.

Icons appear in the profile screen (assuming the skin HAS a complementary icon image) solely on the basis of whether or not they are named appropriately (icon_blue, icon_red, icon_default).
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
My point is: The Jawa has absolutely nothing made, such as icons, team colors, and bots for multiplayer. I assume that that must mean that for some reason, Raven tried to keep the Jawa out of the game.
Ah speculation. I've already given my theory, but here's one more:
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
yet another of Raven's screwups
:)
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
I've already seen enough buggy hits on the Jawa to make up my mind.
Then you shouldn't have any compunction about a challenge to visit my server sometime and "pwn" everyone while playing the "invulnerable" Jawa model. Or do you lack faith in your conviction? ;)

Prime
11-15-2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Jawa8578
The bug can be fixed (such as x-mod for JK2) however, the devs in their infinite wisdom couldn't be bothered to fix the 2 year old bug and sold you the game.
Btw better competetive game for less than $50 = JK2
Fanboy game for $50 = JA So if you are an uber-competative player, why are you even here arguing about JA? If you really feel that only people who are complete noobs would ever like this game, shouldn't you, with your uber-skillz, go back to JO or any variety of other FPS? Maybe a lot of people here don't give a rats ass about competative ladders and tournaments or if there is imperfect physics.

Just playing for fun is just as good a reason for playing as only playing to win. Coming here and flaming people isn't going to make them quit playing the game or change why they play it. The majority of people got what they wanted when they bought this game. If JO is a cheaper alternative for what you want, then by all means play that game. I'm not sure what you are trying to convince people of here. I'm quite willing to admit that the physics system isn't perfect. But in the end, I don't really care, because it doesn't destroy the fun for me. Whether that makes me a newb or not, I really don't give a ****.

In the end, if you don't like the game, then you don't have to play it. I don't see how others playing and enjoying it affects you in any way. We are happy to discuss flaws in the game, but calling people names and insulting them is just trolling. Badly, I might add. :)

TK-8252
11-15-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
Do you honestly have any idea what you're talking about? Do you understand what a skin is... what a skin does? Perhaps you do, but frankly it doesn't appear that way. Yes, I know what I am talking about. I am a skinner.

razorace
11-15-2003, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Well, while Han, Luke, and Leia all had outstanding luck with dealing with Stormtroopers, all over the galaxy there were Stormtroopers conquering all who apposed them. Remember that there were billions, if not trillions of Stormtroopers spread out over the entire galaxy. So there was a lot being done in the galaxy that was never shown in the movies.

How did this turn into a discussion about Stormtroopers...? :D

My theory is that Stormtroopers aren't very good at handling unexpected situations. Every time we see stormtroopers fight the movie characters, they're almost always doing something crazy. (Han charging a platoon of troopers, under attack by primitive teddy bears, etc) Whenever it's a standard battle, the stormtroopers seem to clean house.

Emon
11-15-2003, 08:45 PM
Why should shooting someone's clothing inflict damage upon their body? :rolleyes:

Kurgan
11-15-2003, 08:59 PM
Maybe if you ruined their FABULOUS outfit and they DIED of shame (due to the fashion emergency?)...


Otherwise maybe if the garments caught on fire or something due to the heat of the blast maybe.

Jawa8578
11-15-2003, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Akshara
I rest my case.

Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
I must be lacking in common sense.

I can be immature with quotes too.
But if you can't win an arguement, you evidentally resort to flaming. Try a counter arguement and grow up. GF.
Then again, I'm not the one who is upset that a model has been banned...

KaiaSowapit
11-15-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Jawa8578
But if you can't win an arguement, you evidentally resort to flaming. Try a counter arguement and grow up.
Previously posted by Jawa8578
I hear one thing from you "I'm a complete moron who hasn't the slightest clue of what I speak of"
Yes, it's quite evident that you are no stranger to flaming.

Frankly, I'm not convinced an "argument" took place. You stated at best an opinion, "the physics aren't working correctly." You express this with an unsubstantiated "authority" and then browbeat anyone who dares to disagree or offer an alternative explanation. Prove your case.
Previously posted by Jawa8578
The point is that they are shaky...so they're not shaky for everyone, exactly the same way.
Some times a hit misses, other times it hits. Some times a miss misses, other times it hits. Although lag could make it worse, this is an actual bug that wass present in JK2, but is much more noticable here. It would appear that the damage boxes have caused the bug to escalate.
Conjecture, speculation and opinion. For all we know, what you're describing could be attributed to:
[list=A] a poor internet connection for you, the host server, and/or the other clients
inadequate hardware/software (video card, cpu, drivers, etc.)
a lack of patience/experience/skill (quite simply you could be a sore loser with delusions of grandeur)
unrealistic expectations of how "realistic" the physics of dynamic saber combat "should be" from a Quake-based engine
an illegitimate copy of the game[/list=A]Originally posted by Jawa8578
Then again, I'm not the one who is upset that a model has been banned...
Neither am I. Not because I think they're an exploit, but simply because they're non-sensical. I'm not a fan of six-foot-tall Jawas. I think they look foolish.

My sole purpose for posting on this thread was to debate whether or not the model is "bugged." Your purpose here appears to be more of an attempt to deride this into another "Raven didn't design this game to my satisfaction" rant.

acdcfanbill
11-16-2003, 05:43 PM
i dont understand why you people consitantly think that the model/skin has any impact on hit detection.

Emon
11-16-2003, 05:52 PM
The hit detection isn't buggy, but sv_fps shouldn't default to 20, it leaves gaps in the hit detection. Go complain to the server admin and have him set it to 60...

KaiaSowapit
11-16-2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Emon
The hit detection isn't buggy, but sv_fps shouldn't default to 20, it leaves gaps in the hit detection. Go complain to the server admin and have him set it to 60...
Thanks Emon! I'm going to experiment with this tip. Hopefully this will put the nay-sayers to rest for awhile. :)

TK-8252
11-16-2003, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Emon
The hit detection isn't buggy, but sv_fps shouldn't default to 20, it leaves gaps in the hit detection. Go complain to the server admin and have him set it to 60... Hmm... What exactly does sv_fps set to 60 do? Would it affect other models? Or just the Jawa...?

razorace
11-16-2003, 07:55 PM
*sigh* I've been telling people about the sv_fps setting for the last 6 months and noone listens to me.

Basically, sv_fps controls the frame rate of the server side of the game. The higher the setting the faster the server updates. Since all the weapon hit detection is dependant on the server fps, increasing the sv_fps will improve the hit detection, especially for the sabers.

There are some downsides since this increases the demands on the CPU and runs the server faster than it was designed for, but I've found that it doesn't really make performance impact as even when you double (40) or triple (60) the fps. Plus, there's some other minor things:

- In SP, NPCs can look a bit jerky since the AI is updating faster than they are suppose to.

- severed limbs seem to do the ground bounce more often than normal.

IMO the payoff is well worth it. However, since I'm on a dail-up most of the time, I have NOT been able to test this on a real MP server.

Kurgan
11-17-2003, 06:05 AM
If you guys think that "tall Jawas" are "strange" then let me just say SOME STAR WARS GEEK YOU ARE!!!


Watch A New Hope Again sometime, you'll notice that not all Jawas are the same height, in fact some are nearly average human height (2 meters)!

This is in the Special Edition as well, so don't give me any "budgetary SFX glitches" excuses. The fact is, "tall Jawas" are canon!

emorog
11-17-2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
Does no one ever read my posts?

If you want speculation as to why the Jawa by default has no icons or team skins, perhaps the folks at Raven merely felt that a six-foot-tall Jawa looked dorky. ;)

spot on. :)

Wudan
11-17-2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by emorog
spot on. :)
Good sir, you hit the GD nail on the MF head.

As for this petty line of argument, let's hear from Yoda:
"Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering."

Of course, I'm also beaming because Kaiasowapit is one of my 'peeps'.

CortoCG
11-17-2003, 07:49 PM
kaia! did you pinch my ass? you naughty bastardo!
I think my phone is bugged, someone has been listening to my dirty talking... hmmm.

Hey! who farted?! was it you emorog? :D

KaiaSowapit
11-17-2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by emorog
spot on. :)
Ahh... the sweet taste of vindication. :D

Thanks Mr. Monroe, you're my hero!

Kurgan
11-17-2003, 11:05 PM
Mike seems to concur that it's not a cheat, but that all models use the Kyle model for hit detection.

Strike two!


Perhaps that's reason enough to lift the practice of banning people for using it now?

Azymn
11-18-2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by razorace
*sigh* I've been telling people about the sv_fps setting for the last 6 months and noone listens to me.

There are some downsides since this increases the demands on the CPU and runs the server faster than it was designed for, but I've found that it doesn't really make performance impact as even when you double (40) or triple (60) the fps.
...
IMO the payoff is well worth it. However, since I'm on a dail-up most of the time, I have NOT been able to test this on a real MP server.
I believe the reason it's set to 20 is because the server attempts to send packets to each client for each frame, so doubling the frame rate to 40 would theoretically double the packets sent, and could result in heavy lag on less-robust connections.
But yeah, on a local server it's a great idea.

razorace
11-18-2003, 08:58 PM
Well, that's possible but we can't know until someone at least tries it. If it does alter the number of packets sent, you could probably change the max packet size to account for that.

Azymn
11-18-2003, 09:14 PM
I can't think why else they'd compromise hit detection.
What would changing the packet size do? You still need to send the same amount of data, in as steady a stream as possible or you lose what you gained in server hit detection by way of packet loss and congestion.

razorace
11-18-2003, 10:10 PM
Well, I meant that you could reduce the packet size to maintain a similar stream of data if you increased sv_fps. I honestly don't know much about the network packeting so I'm probably wrong.

TK-8252
11-18-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Mike seems to concur that it's not a cheat, but that all models use the Kyle model for hit detection. Kurgan, ask Mike (Someone working for Raven Software I assume...?) why the Jawa was not given a bot, team colors, or an icon. I'm just curious. :D

razorace
11-18-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Kurgan, ask Mike (Someone working for Raven Software I assume...?) why the Jawa was not given a bot, team colors, or an icon. I'm just curious. :D

Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
Does no one ever read my posts?

If you want speculation as to why the Jawa by default has no icons or team skins, perhaps the folks at Raven merely felt that a six-foot-tall Jawa looked dorky.

Originally posted by emorog
spot on. :)

KaiaSowapit
11-18-2003, 10:52 PM
Article worth reading about Quake & sv_rate: http://www.ukgamer.com (http://www.ukgamer.com/columns.php4?author=53&startat=10&perpage=10)

Some highlights:
So a higher sv_fps basically gives you a much better picture of what the REAL state of the game is, as much for your OWN player as the other ones. Since the key aspect of lag is exactly that separation of your view from the reality of the server, going from 20 to 40 *effectively knocks 25ms off your ping.

There are some other benefits as well (that are rather less than obvious). For people who are not you, Q3 sends one "event" per player per frame. Events are things like firing a weapon, jumping, picking stuff up, etc. If TWO of those things happened in the last frame, one of them is lost...

So, that's all the good stuff. What's the downside?

Scoreboard pings become even more bogus than usual, which will doubtless confuse some people.

There's a STRONG "dimishing returns" principle at work in this. Once you go over 40, you're wasting resources and typically HURTING the system as a whole, for no actual gain in client perception.
Thanks to Amidala from Chop Shop for originally posting this link. :)

TK-8252
11-19-2003, 01:11 AM
Razorrace... I think a 6 foot tall Ugnaught looks odd too. If they let the Ugnaught in, why not the Jawa?

razorace
11-19-2003, 01:20 AM
Razorrace... I think a 6 foot tall Ugnaught looks odd too. If they let the Ugnaught in, why not the Jawa?I have no clue. I'm not working at Raven. :) Maybe it's because ugnaughts are on average taller than Jawas. Or maybe they felt that the model looked better at human size.

Article worth reading about Quake & sv_rate: http://www.ukgamer.comAwesome. Thanks guys.

Kurgan
11-19-2003, 03:27 AM
Thanks for the info guys.

They obviously made the Jawa "tall" so that it would grant no special advantages by having him short. He looks funny and it's fun, that's why people like it. But there are tall Jawas in the Star Wars canon films, so it's really no big deal. And yeah, good point about the tall Ughnaught, duh. ; )

The fact is, the Jawa, like the other 12 skins not listed in the in-game profile menu, is just a BONUS HIDDEN SKIN.

It gives you no special powers, advantages or exploits. It's simply there FOR FUN.

Why didn't they make profile pics, team colors, unique taunts and etc for each one? Probably because they didn't have time. Just like the flyable ships, which were unfinished features they just threw in for fun for those who wanted to check them out and find them.

I'm glad they left them in rather than just deleted them from the build, which they could have easily done.

Sort of like the Bespin Secret Level hidden on the MotS disc, or "the pit" map in Jedi Outcast, or Max the Rabbit in JK1, or the ewoks in Dark Forces. Easter eggs, friends, easter eggs...

Emon
11-19-2003, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by Azymn
What would changing the packet size do?

Sending smaller, more frequent packets can take more processing for routers and other devices, but kind of increases reliability, because a lost packet (which occurs often with UDP, like JA uses), but that difference is probably neglibable.

Azymn
11-19-2003, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by Emon
Sending smaller, more frequent packets can take more processing for routers and other devices, but kind of increases reliability, because a lost packet (which occurs often with UDP, like JA uses), but that difference is probably neglibable.
Well, making the packets smaller would force you to segment server frame snapshot information, regardless of the protocol. You'd need at least 2 packets per frame - I doubt this would enhance reliability.

razorace
11-19-2003, 05:53 AM
We need to get someone to test all this instead of just speculating. :)

Azymn
11-19-2003, 06:13 AM
Not it!

razorace
11-19-2003, 06:28 AM
Well, I can't do it because I'm on a freakin' dail up. I might be able to do this while at home for Turkey Day but don't count on it.

KaiaSowapit
11-19-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by me in another thread
I've tried adjusting sv_fps to 60 (too much packet loss), 40 & 25. To be honest, I've yet to notice a world of difference - then again I never really noticed much of a problem to begin with.

IMHO (keeping in mind I'm no coder/network specialist), getting the best in-game results appears as dependent on your hardware (video card, cpu, etc.) as your online connection. I suspect most people complaining about "buggy" hit-detection are lacking in one or more of those areas (and/or their opponents/server host are).

There are those who may argue things seem less "accurate" than they appeared in JK2. Personally, as I see it, there's more "stuff" going on in Academy (isn't that why most of us bought it?), so it only seems fitting there's bound to be more "stuff" being crammed down the pipe (locally and over the 'net).

Frankly, truly elite competitive gaming over the internet strikes me as an ill-conceived idea in the first place. IMO, that's best left to Local Area Networks with evenly matched machines.

For the rest of us, whacking some virtual jedi "d00dz" should just be a fun diversion in-between doing homework and/or paying off your mortgage. Taking it more seriously than that will probably just lead to a premature heart attack, stroke, hemorrhoids, or acne.

Just my two cents! :D

Wudan
11-19-2003, 05:01 PM
Yeah Kaia has a tip-top machine and does pretty good in FFA ... on a dialup!

TK-8252
11-19-2003, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
The fact is, the Jawa, like the other 12 skins not listed in the in-game profile menu, is just a BONUS HIDDEN SKIN.

It gives you no special powers, advantages or exploits. It's simply there FOR FUN.

Why didn't they make profile pics, team colors, unique taunts and etc for each one? Probably because they didn't have time. Just like the flyable ships, which were unfinished features they just threw in for fun for those who wanted to check them out and find them.

I'm glad they left them in rather than just deleted them from the build, which they could have easily done.

Sort of like the Bespin Secret Level hidden on the MotS disc, or "the pit" map in Jedi Outcast, or Max the Rabbit in JK1, or the ewoks in Dark Forces. Easter eggs, friends, easter eggs... Hmm... Good point, Kurgan. I'll be bringing up the Jawa issue with the other server admins at JK3Files. Hopefully I can get them to accept the Jawa.

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-19-2003, 11:47 PM
Unfortunately, the topic of sv_fps, snaps, and their effects on hit detection is spread among 3 threads including this one, so sorry for the cross-posting but I want to help tie this together:

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Kurgan, there is another thread on sv_fps here: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114308&highlight=svfps

Values must go evenly into 1000 (milliseconds) so choose between 20 (default), 25, 40, and 50. I am using 25 for my Jedi Academy servers (due to host restrictions) and 40 on my Jedi Outcast servers. Modest increases may not only improve hit detection but also reduce lag.

UPDATE: in order for clients to take advantage of increased sv_fps, their snaps must be equal to or greater than the server's sv_fps. Since there is no harm in a client setting a high level (it's a maximum rate), clients should /set snaps 50 or higher. Perhaps the reason KaiaSowapit didn't see any difference is because the default snaps is 20 (I think). Raising sv_fps above 20 with client snaps set to 20 would have no effect. See this thread: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103919&highlight=snaps

razorace
11-20-2003, 12:35 AM
Amidala, do you want to start a new thread about this? It's a pretty important topic...

Emon
11-20-2003, 12:46 AM
By the way, remember that most of those Q3 documents were written around 1999, or based off information from around 1999. So sv_fps 40 isn't going to kill a JA game like it would a Q3 game. Hardware has changed a lot in the past four years; the lowest end systems of JA users were some of the best in 1999.

Heh, it's like old mapping tutorials that tell you not to take the r_speeds tris count over 10-15K, when an average machine could easily do 30K or more in MP now. :)

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-20-2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by razorace
Amidala, do you want to start a new thread about this? It's a pretty important topic...

I agree it's important, but there is already a thread (your guys') in the Dedicated Server forum, and a new one would probably get moved there as well.

Two things need to happen:
1. Server operators need to increase sv_fps to 25, 40, or 50.
2. Clients (players) who use those servers need to be told to /set snaps 40 to take advantage of the increased sv_fps.

I just broadcasted messages on all my servers for players to /set snaps 40. I will add it to my automated server messages.

Originally posted by Emon
By the way, remember that most of those Q3 documents were written around 1999, or based off information from around 1999. So sv_fps 40 isn't going to kill a JA game like it would a Q3 game. Hardware has changed a lot in the past four years; the lowest end systems of JA users were some of the best in 1999.

Heh, it's like old mapping tutorials that tell you not to take the r_speeds tris count over 10-15K, when an average machine could easily do 30K or more in MP now. :)

If your server is fortunate to have a box to itself, that's true. But I use hosts that run several servers on a box, so if they all increased sv_fps you might start getting CPU-induced lag. There is already a problem with this if your server is on a box with Siege servers. The Siege servers are causing CPU-induced lag on every other server on the box, that can cause pings to go >500 for minutes at a time, and that's with them all at sv_fps 20 (I assume).

One of my hosts restricts sv_fps to 30 or less, but I might be able to talk him into increasing it to 40. The host with my JK2 servers doesn't restrict sv_fps, and one of them has been running sv_fps 60 for months, although I have changed both to 40 because of my recent research.

razorace
11-20-2003, 01:24 AM
What about boosting the "rate"? What would a good setting for that?

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-20-2003, 01:42 AM
sv_maxrate is often restricted by the hosts, because they must pay for the bandwidth they use. Client max rates are 4000 for dialup and 25000 for broadband (DSL, cable).

Traditional recommendations for sv_maxrate for Q3 engine servers is 8000-10000, but I have read articles that say there is no detectable difference in pings above 4000-5000. One of my hosts restricts sv_maxrate to 6000 for that reason, confirmed by their own testing, so that's what I use with them and pings are good. That allows that host to reduce their bandwidth cost, which they pass on to server operators as lower rental costs. My other host allows 25000, but I am using 10000 because I don't want too much discrepancy between dialup and broadband users.

If you are running a server from home, use 4000 so you can maximize the number of players you host. If you are renting a server, the host may make that decision for you, but 6000-10000 is enough.

WadeV1589
11-20-2003, 02:11 AM
I was in a server a few days ago, or was it yesterday....anyway I was usin the Jawa model and this guy called *Holy* (replace the asterix' with the other parts of his name..only remember the bit that said Holy as that's what I referred to him as)....right so he started on me, we were running SG4RealJA so it kindof was obvious when my name is WadeV1589 that I was the creator and know a fair bit about the engine...neverthless he started up saying how I knew sh*t (literally saying that) about netcodes and that the jawa model screws it up and that I should dload the one from JK3Files to fix it...I didn't have the heart to tell him the "fix" is actually just to make it show up in the menu and changes nothing of the model.

This is ridiculous though, not only do people run around screaming lamer (see other thread I started about that) but someone planted this foul believe about Jawa's that meant I had, for lack of a better term, a script kiddie ranting at me on a server about how he was so sure he knew best and trying to kick me for not changing! (By the way he was not the admin, the kicks were votes that failed - everyone else had sense!)

As for why I use jawa, as others said, just listen to them, they're soooooooooo cute, I must admit the photorealistic Yoda is pulling me away from it slowly tho...have you heard him when he dies? He makes this uouououooooo noise that makes me crack up every time I hear it.

razorace
11-20-2003, 02:11 AM
Ok, if sv_maxrate is the max rate for the server, what sets the rate for the clients? "rate"? I've found that varible in MP but not in SP. Weird.

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-20-2003, 03:56 AM
Originally posted by razorace
Ok, if sv_maxrate is the max rate for the server, what sets the rate for the clients? "rate"? I've found that varible in MP but not in SP. Weird.

Yes, "rate" sets the client data rate. If I run status and see a player with a data rate of 3000 or less, I'll say "player x, type in the console '/set rate 4000' if dialup, '/set rate 25000' if broadband", and then watch their ping drop after they change rate.

KaiaSowapit
11-20-2003, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by razorace
Amidala, do you want to start a new thread about this? It's a pretty important topic...
I took the liberty of starting a new thread here (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118113) in the Dedicated Server forum.

As for rate in SP, would that apply since it's local?

razorace
11-20-2003, 06:10 AM
not sure, "rate" isn't a SP command but the others are.