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ic0n
09-26-2003, 01:21 AM
hey. this is cool. i was playing CTF, i had 100hp and 15 armor. i had dual sabers, with full saber defence. a random came up to me and didnt even pull me, threw one saber, and it one hit killed me. thats ghetto. this is just another reason this game sucks.

vote Remij for President of Raven 2003
vote ic0n for CEO

Prime
09-26-2003, 01:26 AM
Then why are you playing?

ic0n
09-26-2003, 01:27 AM
because JO is like my favourite game. nothing will ever replace it, but i think this game has potential, i just think raven needs to get their heads out of their collective asses and release a decent patch.

Tesla
09-26-2003, 01:32 AM
Raven don't need to release a Patch, not yet anyway please just give it at least a Month or more. :)

lllKyNeSlll
09-26-2003, 01:34 AM
its the random that killed him not him killing random. but I actually like the random saber damage though I"ve never met anything so drastic.

[div3rse.jello]
09-26-2003, 01:38 AM
i think he's referring to random as a person lol

ic0n
09-26-2003, 01:58 AM
thats right jello.
oh, btw jello no hate ok <3 <3 <3

Lord Sokar
09-26-2003, 06:06 AM
Originally posted by Tesla
Raven don't need to release a Patch, not yet anyway please just give it at least a Month or more. :)

Why?

So we can all get comfortable with the game as it is only to have it totally nerfed?

I hope to God it doesn't go down like that again this time.

MrDomin0
09-26-2003, 06:12 AM
It's because of the vocal minority that whines about how it's not easy to win in saber duels or wants cinematic fighting. Boo-friggity-hoo. Servers have skill ratings for a reason, find a good server and learn how to play the game. And the game can't by nature be cinematic becasue there's no coreographer.

TK-8252
09-26-2003, 06:26 AM
I'd prefer the game be patched ASAP. Like Sokar sayed... Why play with it nerfed?

Kurgan
09-26-2003, 06:40 AM
Well, it depends on a lot of things.

It could be lag.. maybe he really hit you more than once and you only saw once?

It could be cvars... maybe the server had saberdamagescale 5 on or something (meaning a one hit kill with that much health and armor would be totally expected).

This reminds me of the "1 hit kill lightning" thing people were complaining about before.

There are a lot of factors that can affect this, so if you die once from some fluke, my advice is not to sweat it too much.

WadeV1589
09-26-2003, 10:38 AM
I'd prefer the game be patched ASAP. Like Sokar sayed... Why play with it nerfed?So they can rush release a patch that will fix the stuff that needs fixing (my only concern is FPS issues, the rest is almost entirely personally tiffs with parts of the game, not actual bugs, granted the few real exceptions) only to go on to cause new bugs because they rushed and didn't fully test it? Don't force Raven, let them take time, if and when they release a patch, it will be after testing to make sure a) the current bugs are gone and b) no new ones are brought about.

For now, just enjoy the game the best you can.

ic0n
09-26-2003, 01:36 PM
i sincerely doubt it was increased saber dam, cause i was PT'ing when i had the flag, and not killing jack. also, i assure you i didnt lag at all.

FiNLuX
09-26-2003, 03:12 PM
Ehm i have notice if u hít with saber throw in head u die allmost at once every time. So he probeböy hit ur head. Its the same with all weapons like with the sniper unzommed a headshot = 1 shot kill.

traj
09-26-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by WadeV1589
Don't force Raven, let them take time, if and when they release a patch, it will be after testing to make sure a) the current bugs are gone and b) no new ones are brought about.


I don't think we're really in any position to force Raven to do anything. But at least this way they'll hear about it.

Mex
09-26-2003, 03:29 PM
Stop complaining, play the game and enjoy it because if you don't then shut up about it.

At least you have the game. Poor me.... :(

ic0n
09-27-2003, 12:11 AM
shut the hell up michael.. whatever. you havent even PLAYED the game. you dont own it. you dont understand in the least. just go die or something... how can some people be so idiotic.

and we are of course in a position to change something. look at how many people are posting here to get stuff changed. if enough people yell, somebodies gonna hear them.

Kurgan
09-27-2003, 12:29 AM
Guys, chill out, there's no reason to flame each other.

FiNLuX makes an excellent point, there IS locational damage in JA (something JK2 didn't have in MP), where head shots do far more damage than body shots, which do more than limb shots.

Is it possible you were hit in the head?

Locational damage can be toggled off in the server, but it is ON by default.

ic0n
09-27-2003, 12:31 AM
i sincerely doubt i was hit in the head. it looked like lower body

acdcfanbill
09-27-2003, 03:25 AM
yea, ive had a saber throw do 200 damage to me before, the locational damage and hit detection seem a touch screwy to me, but most of the time they are ok. Damage can be set to JK2 style, non locational, on any server with a simple cvar, its in the liturature you get with the ded server pack from Raven.

ic0n
09-27-2003, 05:55 AM
i personally think that JA should move more towards making the game closer to JO... aka DFA takes no force, blue lunge takes no force, etc etc etc, FIX THE GOD DAMNED ROLL! and etc. I like the new sabers, and i guess the katas are OK if you're into the whole RPG thing, other than that, i think i could personally lay out a better game for raven to make.

MrDomin0
09-27-2003, 07:09 AM
You think that do you? So essentially you would lay the conceptual groundwork and they do all the programming, artwork, design, physics, interface, soundtrack and sales management. How very noble of you. Or perhaps you were thinking that you could do all that yourself? I would not claim to know a field in which I have no talent and thus claim to do a better job than people trained in that field. Just food for thought.

What you fail to see is that games must change over time to remain interesting. That's all there is to it. I think Raven did a great job of keeping enough elements familiar while adding new things to it at the same time. If you are so intoxicated with JO, play Outcast. Or, better yet, make your own server and set the cvars to the JO equivalents. The options are there for a reason, the game cannot read your mind and adjust it's settings to your whim and fancy. You have to set them as such. Do so and stop comlplaining that you don't like what you have the ability to change.

Here's another thing that you may not be aware of. Online games are a bunch of independent machines connected to one server. Despite the mechanical magnificence of the computer, not every system is precisely synched. So regardless of what you see on your screen, it's only what the server sees that really counts. Isn't it possible that there was a teensy bit of lag and that saber in fact hit you in the melon? Isn't it possible that maybe because of that lag your machine showed you a throw to the midsection? Isn't it possible that you are overreacting to a single incident that resulted in one kill that in the great scheme of things doesn't really amount to anything?

the weiner dog!
09-27-2003, 07:10 AM
Kurgan there *was a bug with 1 hit lightning kills; it was fixed in that server patch.

And there is (was it fixed?) a bug with 1 kick kills as well.

Actually a lot of these bugs never even got fixed in Outcast so I doubt many will in Academy either.

The rocket homing bug from outcast is still there and when the debug melee command was used, the unlimited damage grip glitch is still there as well.

WadeV1589
09-27-2003, 09:19 AM
i personally think that JA should move more towards making the game closer to JO... aka DFA takes no force, blue lunge takes no force, etc etc etc, FIX THE GOD DAMNED ROLL! and etc. I like the new sabers, and i guess the katas are OK if you're into the whole RPG thing, other than that, i think i could personally lay out a better game for raven to make.
Ok come on man, listen to that, you're wanting JO's sequal to become JO!! HELLO!!! This is where I have to flame, is your brain functional here? You're wanting a NEWER game to become the old one again, IT IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN TO PLEASE YOU!

In the meantime, you write down your better than JA gameplan, send it into Raven and see what happens cause man from what you're saying we'd be working games back to the original Doom if anyone put you in charge!

And don't say "I just mean going back to the older moves" because THIS IS A NEW GAME IT IS NOT JO WE DO NOT WANT THE OLD STUFF. When will some of you get it into your heads this is NOT JO and the complainers that want JO style stuff back should go play frickin JO MP because there are no bugs where you complain, just personal requests for old stuff.

I've never heard anything so stupid, "hey Raven, I know JA is a new game, but can you just make it JO again? It'd please all of us l33t JO players, screw the rest, we're in the overall minority but who cares! We bought the game so we demand you listen!" - and yes, all you "we want JO stuff" complainers sound like that.

End of flame.

the weiner dog!
09-27-2003, 09:26 AM
Pay attention:


We do not want JO, we wanted something totally new.

Didn't happen.

We got a game that was basically everything in JO with a few tiny new additions.


So game play dynamics basically remain the same with the exception of a few tweaks to game play.

Those tweaks are having a major negative effect on a very popular game type and all of it's hybrids.


Small tweaks are all we are asking for.

We are not asking for things to be nerfed, removed or even added really.

Every thing we need is there in the game, no new animations even need to be added.

They put a "lock" on a few things that really had a horrible effect (I'm sure not intended) on full force saber only game types and we simply are asking for those things to be unlocked.

Again, we are asking for nothing "new" nor are we asking for things to be "identical".

In reality, with the exception of the "nerfs" things still are identical.


None of us are saying we are pissed because they just recycled the single saber, force powers and guns from JO and did not create any new ones (other than 1 gun and two stances with limited swings).

Just a few small tweaks in a few places will fix some serious issues a very significant portion of the overall community is having with specific game types.

Get that?

Good.


:rolleyes:

WadeV1589
09-27-2003, 09:31 AM
ic0ns reply is quite clearly saying he wants all the JO stuff back basically, he post literally says that.

Other people complain about kick, they want the JO kick back.

The rest are minority complaints, unless the majority complains, things won't get changed to please groups of people, least of all the kick because it's almost entirely S/O CTF players.

As for ic0n, he tells Michael to shut up and demands he gets the JO stuff back, and you're saying he's not asking for things to be nerfed, removed or added? By changing anything that's currently in the game to suit minorities, you're nerfing it as far as others are concerned.

the weiner dog!
09-27-2003, 09:40 AM
There are far more ff/so players than there are siege players in case you didn't know.

There are for more ff/so players and clans in CTF than there are full weapon CTF players/clans in case you didn't know.


By your definition the only people who should be listened to are the noobs with "darf mall skinz" who populate public ffa servers because there are more of them than anybody in this community.

Again, do you play these game types?

Do you know anything about them?

Do you even know how large this (the competitive ff/so) part of the community even is?

No?

Then please do not add to this discussion until you can do so in a productive way.

A lot of you are just “arguing for the sake of arguing” and it’s getting really old.

You self admittedly know nothing about the issues we have because you do not play these game types, are not part of the competitive community and have no clue as to what is going on.

But you see a person take issue with something involving game play on a public forum and you think “here is my chance to get noticed!” and jump in and start flaming people like an ignorant attention seeking fool.

WadeV1589
09-27-2003, 11:02 AM
I don't jump at a chance to get noticed, I've been playing Elite Force, Jedi Outcast and now Jedi Academy for a very long time. I've seen how people play and how people respond so I am more than entitled to voice my opinion, what you're suggesting is that the people who should be listened to are the overal minorities. true SO/CTF has a lot of people, but what percentage of the OVERALL JO/JA players? They're a minority due to total figures that's why you can't just listen to them because "they know what they're talking about", they know what they want, as in their community, they cannot speak for the entire JO/JA players.

By my definition, EVERYONE should be listened to, it's clear not everyone agrees on everything, the JO kick is something SO/CTF want, others don't, get it? They are more than entitled to voice their opinion but just because they're specialists in a particular area does NOT mean they're right which is what you're starting to aim at.
So...Again, do you play these game types?

Do you know anything about them?

Do you even know how large this (the competitive ff/so) part of the community even is?Yes, I do, doesn't change the fact they still can't speak for the majority.
You self admittedly know nothing about the issues we have because you do not play these game types, are not part of the competitive community and have no clue as to what is going on.And that's more what you wish were true not what is true. I buy these games to play ALL areas, not just CTF or not just FFA or not just Siege, I play them all.

The people truly seeking attention are those starting new posts constantly about old topics in the hope their post will get the fix for the game they want. But of course, you being someone who argue for these changes won't agree.

ic0n
09-27-2003, 04:50 PM
[i]Originally posted by WadeV1589
Ok come on man, listen to that, you're wanting JO's sequal to become JO!! HELLO!!! This is where I have to flame, is your brain functional here? You're wanting a NEWER game to become the old one again, IT IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN TO PLEASE YOU!

In the meantime, you write down your better than JA gameplan, send it into Raven and see what happens cause man from what you're saying we'd be working games back to the original Doom if anyone put you in charge!

And don't say "I just mean going back to the older moves" because THIS IS A NEW GAME IT IS NOT JO WE DO NOT WANT THE OLD STUFF. When will some of you get it into your heads this is NOT JO and the complainers that want JO style stuff back should go play frickin JO MP because there are no bugs where you complain, just personal requests for old stuff.

I've never heard anything so stupid, "hey Raven, I know JA is a new game, but can you just make it JO again? It'd please all of us l33t JO players, screw the rest, we're in the overall minority but who cares! We bought the game so we demand you listen!" - and yes, all you "we want JO stuff" complainers sound like that.

End of flame.
[/IGNORANT POST]
Stop complaining because you never got good at JO. i bet you're one of the people who likes the fact that there is no kick anymore. and that 1hk moves take force. Have you noticed that all the people that were good at JO, especially FK, have totally voiced that they want the same kind of things changed here? Wow. coincidentally they also got banned. gglfnubswtfscripts.

WadeV1589
09-27-2003, 04:54 PM
Actually I don't give a toss if kick is there or not, I used it when it was there and I use the new "jump on head, they fall over" now too, they could remove all foot work and I still wouldn't put in as much effort as some of you do about complaining!

I bet you're one of those people who've lost their ability to win super easy now by over using kick hence all your complaints? blah blah

ic0n
09-27-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by MrDomin0
You think that do you? So essentially you would lay the conceptual groundwork and they do all the programming, artwork, design, physics, interface, soundtrack and sales management. How very noble of you. Or perhaps you were thinking that you could do all that yourself? I would not claim to know a field in which I have no talent and thus claim to do a better job than people trained in that field. Just food for thought.

What you fail to see is that games must change over time to remain interesting. That's all there is to it. I think Raven did a great job of keeping enough elements familiar while adding new things to it at the same time. If you are so intoxicated with JO, play Outcast. Or, better yet, make your own server and set the cvars to the JO equivalents. The options are there for a reason, the game cannot read your mind and adjust it's settings to your whim and fancy. You have to set them as such. Do so and stop comlplaining that you don't like what you have the ability to change.

Here's another thing that you may not be aware of. Online games are a bunch of independent machines connected to one server. Despite the mechanical magnificence of the computer, not every system is precisely synched. So regardless of what you see on your screen, it's only what the server sees that really counts. Isn't it possible that there was a teensy bit of lag and that saber in fact hit you in the melon? Isn't it possible that maybe because of that lag your machine showed you a throw to the midsection? Isn't it possible that you are overreacting to a single incident that resulted in one kill that in the great scheme of things doesn't really amount to anything?

How noble of me? I wasnt saying "OMFFG IM GUNNA MAEK A GAEM DANT ONLY I LIEK SO I PLIEK IT ALOT AND PLAY IT ALL DA TIEMZ ROOFLLLLLLLLLLLL", i was stating that i could probably design a game in the best interests of the ACTUAL jk2 community. I bet you've only played FFA, on high regen servers, stood around on the pad with grip, and when anyone ran in with a saber, you a.) gripped him off or held him under the pad and yelled "lamer wtf dont lame fagt wtf lamer", or b.) waited for an admin to /amsleep him, and then, of course "lamer wtf fagt lamer scripts lamer kick script lamer fagt lamer lamer". Of course all those sayings would be bound, but im sure you get the point. Anyone from the s/o FF CTF community could design a better game. (with the exception of =AX=, har har just kidding much <3). Alright, for the last time nubs, lets get this through our head. THIS GAME IS NOT A CHAT CLIENT. jesus.

WadeV1589
09-27-2003, 05:00 PM
ic0n your arguments are weak at the best of times, when people disagree the very very first thing you do is try to find fault with them.

Oh and sayingi was stating that i could probably design a game in the best interests of the ACTUAL jk2 communityis exactly the point you're so incapable of understanding..ready...here we go again!

This game...is...not...Jedi Outcast! It was not created to be in the best interests of the old JO people, it was created to bring in new people while retaining some old stuff to keep it in the genre!

Now is that really so hard to get? This is not JO, stop asking for it to be JO and stop insulting people every time they hear you complain because frankly these threads are getting ridiculous and you're not helping.

ic0n
09-27-2003, 05:01 PM
Oh. How do you know i have no talent, etc. did j00 us3 uR 31337 h4xx3z and tr0jan my c0mpz0rz and r34d my 41M l0gZ wh3r3 i s41d i hab no 1337 s/<1llZ?

And i never said anything about redoing artwork, soundtrack, bla bla bla. All i need is for them to change a few key elements in the coding of the MP portion of the game.

ic0n
09-27-2003, 05:06 PM
I'd back off, if all the nubs werent converting to this "Darth RPG, Luke Skywanker" Roleplay fest called JA. i think its just a ****ing joke. i hate to say it, but its mediocre at best. I think you cant understand me here. They have basically ruined duel and CTF. No kick? Moves actually take force? Hey! heres an idea! Why dont you just make saber swing take force. And hell, why dont you make running take force as well. Oh, and if you dont spam constant "patrol droid checking in for duty" and "Enemy spotted! Need backup!" binds, or stand on the pad chatting, your force slowly drains down. The point is, everyone in the JO community wants change. We are bored of JO. It doesnt have much to offer us anymore. On the off chance that i decide to go FFAing one day (in JO), there is going to be no little nubs like you to kill. =( *tear*. All the servers will be taken down and converted to JA.
So listen, IM ALL ABOUT CHANGE. ITS A GOOD THING. But JA is like uninstalling windows 98, and installing ME. its a downgrade. Hopefully things will change with the next patch, but for all of you that say they like it how it is, you can blow me. This is a ****ing preschool.

WadeV1589
09-27-2003, 05:07 PM
Your attitude is certainly pre-school, I think we'll all agree on that.

ic0n
09-27-2003, 05:14 PM
No. Just because you spellcheck your posts, and post with perfect grammar, doesn't give you more intelligence than i have. You think you are all knowing because you beat multiplayer, or sometimes, when you have nothing better to do in your pathetic little life, you go into a random FFA server and swing your staff saber around. Let me explain something to you. I know you, i know your type. I know you just by your name and your amount of posts. You just linger on the forums, thinking you know everything. Does it make you feel good to launch an attempt at belittling me over the internet? Well ill tell you what. You're a faggot 'at best'. A ****ing retard. Go stand on the pad and finger**** your e-girlfriend, '-=LAME=-PADME'. dork.

WadeV1589
09-27-2003, 05:19 PM
This is my 50th post....that above was your 50th post....so whatever "type" I am you're placing on yourself as well.

I never had a go at your grammar, I had a go at your attitude, and I certainly don't need to belittle you, you do a good enough job, I mean look at thisYou're a faggot 'at best'. A ****ing retard. Go stand on the pad and finger**** your e-girlfriend, '-=LAME=-PADME'. dork.Do you really think that's how to speak on here? Please...

Oh and my name is...my name...it's my real name so don't have a go at it otherwise you're insulting a person for what they're called....your attitude will just show worse.

Oh and I do go into a random FFA server and "swing my saber" because...shock horror...this is a game where you play on servers with a saber...I don't stick to the same server because new servers bring different people, I have one or 2 favorites but I visit more than a couple.

Your first post in this thread was a good post...but look at you now, and you say I'm the one belittling you, you're swearing at people you don't know, insulting them in every post and trying to say you're right...

Darksaber_SMC
09-27-2003, 05:26 PM
Think of it this way.

If someone threw a lightsaber at you, and it hit you, what would happen. Would it hit you and return, or would it slice right though you. If someone hit ya with a lightsaber right though the stomach, would you carry on fighting, or die?

The saber fights in JA are much more realistic, even though at some times annoying. Thats the whole skill of it. You have to learn how to counter 1hit-kill moves, or dodge them.

JA is no way JKO. It's almost like a different game. If you like JKO but your dissapointed with JA just because it is not the same then I'd say your being unreasonable. Whats the point in releasing a new game if it's gonna be the same? Expansion packs do that job just fine.

JA has more skill involved, has more realistic saber fighting. The saber hits acctually do the damage they should; If someone sweeps a saber right though you (backstab) or they stick their saber right thought your stomach (roll-stab), then it's only natural to die. We must learn how to counter these attacks and dodge them.

As for the Force. How could you do these moves without force. Sure it's annoying, but again, it's much more "realistic". If you run up a 20 foot high vertical wall, you should expect your force to use up a bit.

So to sum it up; JA is not JKO.
If you wanna play JKO, then stick to it if u prefer it. JA is different. It has much more moves, more weapons, characters move much more fluidly, and the saber attacks are more "realistic" because they are deadly (if used right) and use up force, like it should.

This is my opinion. Lets hope it clears a few things up. Sorry for the long post :P
--Darksaber

ic0n
09-27-2003, 05:26 PM
in case you didnt get it, the last bit of my post was some preschool attitude for you.
Do you know why i have a bad attitude? Because im sick of stupid people like you ruining a game that i, and alot of other people have come to really enjoy.

ic0n
09-27-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Darksaber_SMC
Think of it this way.

If someone threw a lightsaber at you, and it hit you, what would happen. Would it hit you and return, or would it slice right though you. If someone hit ya with a lightsaber right though the stomach, would you carry on fighting, or die?

The saber fights in JA are much more realistic, even though at some times annoying. Thats the whole skill of it. You have to learn how to counter 1hit-kill moves, or dodge them.

JA is no way JKO. It's almost like a different game. If you like JKO but your dissapointed with JA just because it is not the same then I'd say your being unreasonable. Whats the point in releasing a new game if it's gonna be the same? Expansion packs do that job just fine.

JA has more skill involved, has more realistic saber fighting. The saber hits acctually do the damage they should; If someone sweeps a saber right though you (backstab) or they stick their saber right thought your stomach (roll-stab), then it's only natural to die. We must learn how to counter these attacks and dodge them.

As for the Force. How could you do these moves without force. Sure it's annoying, but again, it's much more "realistic". If you run up a 20 foot high vertical wall, you should expect your force to use up a bit.

So to sum it up; JA is not JKO.
If you wanna play JKO, then stick to it if u prefer it. JA is different. It has much more moves, more weapons, characters move much more fluidly, and the saber attacks are more "realistic" because they are deadly (if used right) and use up force, like it should.

This is my opinion. Lets hope it clears a few things up. Sorry for the long post :P
--Darksaber

Realistic saber fighting? The movie was a movie!!! get your head out of your ass, fool.

Darksaber_SMC
09-27-2003, 05:34 PM
We are talking about the game here, not the movie. Why make JA more like JKO when we acctualy have JKO. JA is a new game.

Also, If you think about it. In "The Phantom Menace", at the end where obi-wan slices Darth Maul in half, he diddnt just get up again, and carry on fighting. He died. Simple.

and cut the insults, I'd listen to you without the insults. You dont need them to get your point accross.

ic0n
09-27-2003, 05:40 PM
I still dont understand how something can be realistic if it never existed. If you played a game where one tiny ding from a saber would chop your arm off and you couldnt play, i doubt it would be very fun.

Darksaber_SMC
09-27-2003, 05:44 PM
I put realistic in quotation marks. Realistic in terms of the SW universe, not real life :s

I think a game like that would be really fun. You'd have to work really hard, and it'd take lots of skill to dodge those attacks.

Maybe if lucasarts brought out a game like that, you could inculde blocking to a greater extent, which would protect you from simple saber attacks.

That would be pretty cool

WadeV1589
09-27-2003, 05:44 PM
Something is only as real as the thing it was based on, what he's saying is because these games come from the Star Wars film universe, realistic is instant death if a saber comes close.

His other point though, why make JA like JO is the main point and one that keeps bringing up these topics.

Darksaber_SMC
09-27-2003, 05:53 PM
Thank you WadeV.

The way i see it, Lucasarts could have made an expansion pack for less hastle and money if they wanted more to do with JKO.

They must have made JA for all those SW fans out there who wanted better fights and more moves.

Thank you lucas-arts and raven :D

lllKyNeSlll
09-27-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by WadeV1589
Actually I don't give a toss if kick is there or not, I used it when it was there and I use the new "jump on head, they fall over" now too, they could remove all foot work and I still wouldn't put in as much effort as some of you do about complaining!

I bet you're one of those people who've lost their ability to win super easy now by over using kick hence all your complaints? blah blah

Jump on head was sp for jk2 it never existsed multi even for jk3. We're not complaining because of kick alone, We are complaining because there is no killing mechanism. Against another good player you can't win at all or lose, not saying win easily. Sure, I can still kill newbs easily. BUt anyone smart there is no differentiation in skill. LIke in jk2, uj could beat me and i atleast can kill him. But in jk3 WE're exactly the same skill in ff duels. None of us would die once in the span of an hour if we really tried. You might say the saber is the killing mechanism. But what if you can't get in range to hit me with a saber since im moving 3 times faster than you with a strafe jump. FFA the easiest way to win is run backwards with rage and hold down attack with 2 sabers. YOu think that takes skill? not at all.

My argument has nothing to do with jk2. It means that jk3 needs a killing mechanism and some fixed problems. Kick was one the killing mechanism for jk2. The slow roll makes it hard to avoid drain another mechanism gone. The dfa with no force is another mechanism gone. In ff duel i will not use any special attacks in jk3 because they all use force. The lack of a grip hide takes away another killing mechanism.