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Darth Windu
09-28-2003, 07:53 AM
Hi everyone. As you may or may not have noticed, my sig now includes a link to an online version of my idea for SWGB2.

This link goes to my website, and from there, you can choose to either-
1. Look at the idea online
2. Download SWGB2.doc

I cannot express how much i recommend you download the file. The reason for this is that it was created in Microsoft Word format, and uses various internal links that dont work in the online version. Hopefully i will be able to fix this, but at the moment downloading is your best bet.

If there are any questions and/or comments, lease feel free to post them here or email me.

Darth Windu

Frozted_MM's
09-28-2003, 09:25 AM
hmmmmm it was kinda hard to read clicking on all those links going up and down but i read it some of the ideas are good.

but vong and hutt civs are controversial and joining gungan and naboo no comment

those unique buildings are good some are kind of mini super weapons lol

Admiral Vostok
09-29-2003, 12:17 AM
Some interesting ideas Windu. Here's my comments:

:atat: Some of your unique buildings get amazingly good powers (Confederacy War Room, Ion Cannon, Starfleet Uplink) whereas others give negligible benefits (Moisture Farm). I assume these will be balanced by being available at different stages of the game and costing vastly different amounts of resources. Also it's not clear what the Wookiee one does (Where do the reinforcements come from? Where do they go?). I also assume the Star Destroyer Bombardment destroys a large area of buildings and units.

:atat: You're aware of my dislike of the Aircraft limitations, so we won't go into that again here.

:atat: I'd suggest for cloaking that it work the opposite way around (ie visible on mini-map but not on main screen). This is because players watch the main screen far more often than the mini-map. I'm guessing here that you're going with the idea we discussed about cloaking in the other thread in that it doesn't really make a unit "invisible", but only makes it impossible to detect on radar. This is all well and good for realism, but I think in gameplay terms it works better the other way around. I'm also guessing eve though you can see it, units can't attack it unless spotted by a detector? Otherwise cloaking seems a bit pointless just to avoid being seen on the mini-map.

:atat: Seems a bit weird to have a trooper cost half a population. Why don't you just double all the population costs so a Trooper can take up a whole existence?

:atat: As a minor note you spelt cannon wrong throughout the document. "Canon" means a part of Holy Scriptures, and has been adopted by fan bases such as those of Star Wars to mean what is taken as being correct in the continuity of the fan's text. "Cannon" is a big shooting thing. Sorry to nitpick but that's me :D

Darth Windu
09-29-2003, 05:01 AM
Forzted - trust me, its worse without the links

Vostok - some good points there,

1. Well i still have to sort out a few, and with the Hutts, i couldnt think of anything more unique than a Moisture Farm (since they will be representing Tatooine). I'm thinking of increasing the amount of funds you get from it.

The Wookiee building calls for re-inforcements that arrive in a Wookiee Air Transport (unbuildable). When you activate the unique building, the transport appears at one of the edges of the map, fly's over to the closest Wookiee Command Center, and drops off it load of troopers. Not sure if i will make the transport targetable by the enemy or not, but at the moment im thinking not.

2. Well, i think it's necessary...

3. The problem i have with that is that, for example, how could a Battle Droid fail to see a Jedi Master standing in front of it? Instead, i was thinking of editing cloaking to make units invisible on the mini-map and making the range at which they are detected halved (ie if a droid sees 6 squares, it would detect a cloaked unit only at 3)

4. I did? Silly me, ill have to check on that.

Admiral Vostok
09-29-2003, 09:46 AM
3. By that analogy, how could some sort of radar (your mini-map) not be able to detect a Jedi trying to cloak himself? However, the most important thing is that it doesn't make much sense gameplay wise.

5. You still didn't explain why Troopers cost half a population. Do they share bunks or something?

Darth Windu
09-29-2003, 12:04 PM
Vostok - a few things-

2. I removed the 'range' idea for Aircraft, forgot to do that earlier

3. To me, it makes more sence to have them invisible on the mini-map rather than the main map. Also, i have added the modification where a unit will only be able to see a cloaked unit at 50% of its normal LOS (ie if it sees 6 squares, it will only be able to see a cloaked unit at 3)

5. Well, this is because i want to keep the pop limit as easily understood as possible. I could make them take up one slot, but then i would have to double everything else, so that the total pop slots would be 600, and an AT-AT would take up 8.

It really isnt significant, just a measure of how i do the pop slot thing

Finally, with the unqiue buildings, i have opted for a new type of progress in that buildings will become available over time depending on how much research you have invested. Since they all give good bonus' they would become available on average about 3/4 of your way through building research

Admiral Vostok
09-29-2003, 09:49 PM
2. But you still have the thing where they need a store of Gas, right? Then I still don't like it.

3. It could work. At least it is an original idea.

5. I don't see what the problem is with doubling. It would be far easier to understand than having something cost half a pop. Thinking from a programmer's point of view, the pop counter will be implemented as double what you have anyway because integers take up less room than floating point numbers.

So you have a max pop of 600. So what? That sounds good for consumers who want more. And you'll still have exactly the same number of units as you have now, so there is now problem there. An AT-AT take up 8? Nothing wrong with that either, especially when you consider some of the units in WarCraft 3 that cost 8 pop when there was only a max pop limit of 90 (as much as I like Blizzard games that combined with the upkeep concept was the worst idea ever).

If having a unit cost half a population is "easily understood" why can't I understand it?

Darth Windu
09-30-2003, 02:04 AM
Vostok -

2. As i've said before, i've increased the power of aircraft, and so there needs to be something to limit that power somewhat, hence the Gas idea. All you do is collect it from the air (ala Bespin) or you can buy it at your spaceport. I cant think of anything else to replace Gas with, and im not having infantry fire at aircraft. One other thing is that it hasnt been done before, and i think it would be interesting to see how it works.

5. I suppose i could double it...

Admiral Vostok
09-30-2003, 03:22 AM
2. Hasn't been done before? What about in RoN?

5. Yes you could. It would be silly not to, really.

Darth Windu
09-30-2003, 04:23 AM
2. No, it hasnt been done before to the best of my knowledge.

Admiral Vostok
09-30-2003, 04:48 AM
Isn't there some sort of similar thing with oil in RoN?

Darth Windu
10-01-2003, 12:34 PM
Well i dont have RoN, but as far as im aware, oil is a resource that only becomes available when you enter the 'industrial age', and it is necessary for vehicles and aircraft.
Whether you can buy/sell it or not, i dont know, you'd have to ask someone who has the game.

Even so, my idea with Gas is different, and quite realistic in a Star Wars context.

Sithmaster_821
10-01-2003, 07:55 PM
Well, well, well, the truth coms out. Windu doesnt own RoN, but persisted to push it as a great game, and a potential engine. Sounds very similar to another ex-forumer I know, who openly touted RoN, and now lets it collect dust while he continues to play (and complain about) AoM, which he persistently mocked on the forums. Very intresting.

Darth Windu
10-02-2003, 02:30 AM
I still want to get it, im just not going to pay $90 for it.

DK_Viceroy
10-02-2003, 01:29 PM
Gas is used in fighters yes that is undeniable but contrary to what everypone is touting in here only TIE Fighters needed it to stay airborne Gas is used to power the weapons no Gas No Weapons. Apart from torpedo's and of course Kamikazee and having aircraft not flying because of no gas is dum unless it's a TIE Fighter i really don't see an X-Wing needing Gas To Fly.

DarthMaulUK
10-02-2003, 02:53 PM
I have RoN and yes its not a bad RTS. However, the gaming engine is older than the original Star Wars (1977!) but it does have some nice touches that could be used in SWGB 2, IF it was going to be a resource driven game.

I would like to see it move away from resources and have territory yeld cash to buy better weapons - almost likw force commander, just not as bad.

DMUK

Compa_Mighty
10-02-2003, 03:31 PM
So SWGB2 is not resource driven! Hehehe. Sorry man, you've earned it, I will watch everything you say very closely to see if I can get some information! ;)

DarthMaulUK
10-02-2003, 03:40 PM
hehe
I have also heard it features Stormtroopers

;-)

DMUK

Admiral Vostok
10-03-2003, 12:02 AM
Stormtroopers?! Awesome! ;)

Compa_Mighty
10-03-2003, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by DarthMaulUK
hehe
I have also heard it features Stormtroopers

;-)

DMUK

No kidding! Man, this is awesome, now we can really start our speculations...

Stormtroopers! Who would've thought about that?! :p

saberhagen
10-03-2003, 09:32 AM
I hope they're canon stormtroopers and not EU stormtroopers. ;)

Darth Windu
10-03-2003, 10:35 AM
DarthMaul - you realise that from that statement, you have effectively confirmed the existence of SWGB2 dont you?

Viceroy - what good are fighters with no weapons? Hence, my idea retains realism.

DarthMaulUK
10-03-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
DarthMaul - you realise that from that statement, you have effectively confirmed the existence of SWGB2 dont you?


Ah!

I didn't confirm anything, Garry Gaber did that earlier in the year
;-)

DMUK

DK_Viceroy
10-03-2003, 12:01 PM
NO Windu That's YOUR CRACKPOT IDEA that's why you would head back to base to get replacment Gas cylinders to power your weapons. How is saying NO GAS IN THE FIGHTER WEAPONS DON'T WORK saying they don't have weapons at all. Oh I get it you realise your wrong and are now backed into a corner cowering before the truth .Embrace the truth climb down the ladder and embrace the truth for it is pure and we shall forget about your blunder.

Admiral Vostok
10-04-2003, 01:03 AM
As erratic as Viceroy's post is, he has a valid point, Windu. While the battles we see in the movies are shorter than the games we'll be playing, the need for Gas to continually power your Aircraft is too limiting, and will more than likely discourage their use. I want just the opposite, so much as to even encourage the use of weaker Air Forces like the Trade Federation. Reliance on Gas will not help the situation. It is a realism idea, and while that doesn't necessarily mean bad gameplay as many believe, in this case it does.

Darth Windu
10-04-2003, 01:34 AM
Viceroy - you seem to have missed the point...which doesnt really suprise me.
You say 'gas powers weapons, not engines, so your idea is unrealistic'.
The point i was trying to make was that, without being able to use your weapons, what use are aircraft? Either way, this works for realism.

Vostok - not true. This feature of adding 'gas' as a resource makes aircraft more important, and allows them to be strengthened without adding ridiculous ideas like Stormtrooper shooting down X-wing's.
Furthermore, it adds a whole new level of strategy to the game. For example, if you are fighting the Rebel's, the most powerful air force in the game, your target would most likely be their Gas refineries. Of course, they will do their best to stop you, leading to some ferocious and exciting battles.

DarthMaul - as far as i was aware, Gaber was working on a star wars related RTS. Your statement though indicates that this project is indeed SWGB2 :)

Compa_Mighty
10-04-2003, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
DarthMaul - as far as i was aware, Gaber was working on a star wars related RTS. Your statement though indicates that this project is indeed SWGB2 :)

He said in another thread he is only reffering to this project as SWGB2, cause we all do... not necessarily because that's the name.

saberhagen
10-04-2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu

The point i was trying to make was that, without being able to use your weapons, what use are aircraft?

Well, they're still useful for scouting which can be quite important. Remember not all units should be judged on their fighting ability. Many people under estimate the probot just because it has a weak attack and few hit points.



if you are fighting the Rebel's, the most powerful air force in the game,

Not necessarily. What about the Naboo? There was a big debate about this on the GiRL forum and Pompei maintains that Naboo are a more powerful air civ than the Rebs. Although many people disagreed, you can't just ignore someone as clued up as him.

Admiral Vostok
10-04-2003, 12:06 PM
For example, if you are fighting the Rebel's, the most powerful air force in the game, your target would most likely be their Gas refineries.This shows exactly how your method will weaken air too much. If the use of Air is limited to maintaining an amount of Gas, enemies of Air-strong civs will most certainly go for Gas, as you state and in fact desire. The problem with this theory is that people will not be ecouraged to use Air, because it's use is so dependent on this one thing. The Rebels have a strong Trooper element, and it is feasible (as it should be) to win using the Rebels without using their Air Force. This is of course what people will do exclusively, not using any of the Rebel's Air because they are so hard to keep in the air. My method of allowing Troopers to shoot at Air with non-spectacular results is far more encouraging for Air Forces to be used.

DK_Viceroy
10-04-2003, 12:21 PM
hmm i'm sory vostok but i'm having second thoughts about troopers firing at air i double checked and they move to fast maybe allowing the units that were formerly mech destroyers to fire at air they would certainly have the targetting systems. I'm not ruling it out but troopers really wouldn't ahve the targetting systems required to get a shot near you'd have to have 50 in one area firing all art once to have a chance i'm sorry but i thought it through and checked i'm not sure what the MGLT to KPH or MPH is but i think it's something like 1 MGLT to 1000 KPH or something like that then again those figures are for in space so i could be wrong i propably am it's propably half their space speed because the unaerodynamic shpes of most of the fighters would rip them apart if they used their space speed. maybe have units like AAT AT-ST Homing Spider Droid fire at air maybe instead or as well?


Windu please realise rockets weren't designed in the star wars universe for troopers to use and for the few bounty hunters that did use them they weren't fired at air please see sense your practucally saying a bow and arrow is star warsy.

Darth Windu
10-04-2003, 03:12 PM
saber - the probot isnt an aircraft, and its main purpose is scouting...
Also, in regards to this 'Pompei' person, yes, i can disregard what they say. There is absolutely NO evidence that the Naboo aircraft is as good or diverse as the Rebels.

Vostok - i never said the Rebels HAD to use air. Besides, all a smart Rebel player has to do is build lots of troops while ignoring air, then while their opponent is going after gas, hit them with the infantry.

Viceroy - if Lucas thought rockets were un-StarWarsy, he wouldnt have included them in his movies. One last thing-
JANGO FETT

DK_Viceroy
10-04-2003, 05:25 PM
Like I said The FEW BOUNTY HUNTERS THAT USED THEM in future read all of the post not what you want to see through those rose coloured coke bottles i never saw jango fett fire them at an AIR TARGET only obi.

Rockets were never fired at fighters which goes to say that while they were there they wern't that acurate enough to hit a small and fast fighter yes and he meant rockets to be used against ground targets by a few units unique to some civs you've talked about diversity how is it diverse if every civ {including your Yuuzhan Vong who hate technology and would never use a rocket} DIVERSE it's about diverse as a brown dog with a white spot on it's four paws being thrown into a hall of brown dogs there isn't really many differenmces.

Darth Windu
10-05-2003, 02:28 AM
Viceroy - if a bounty hunter can use rockets, im sure Clone Troopers (clones of Jango) could use the same rockets, or hadnt that occured to you?

Also, do you actually watch the movies or just daydream about EU? In ep2, the Hailfiredroids were firing rockets at Gunships, and when Anakin and Obi are chasing Dooku, we get-
Obi: "shoot him down"
Pilot: "We cant sir, we're out of rockets"

Hence, rockets are both anti-ground and anti-air weapons, which makes my rocket trooper idea fit in perfectly with realism and the forementioned gameplay.

Admiral Vostok
10-05-2003, 03:44 AM
Vostok - i never said the Rebels HAD to use air. Besides, all a smart Rebel player has to do is build lots of troops while ignoring air, then while their opponent is going after gas, hit them with the infantry.Exactly. Whose going to bother building air when a gas limitation could render them useless and you can just use other units that have no such restrictions?

Good point about Jango, though he does only have one rocket at a time.

What you (and now Viceroy, who has been turned) should realise is that the Troopers aren't shooting at Aircraft as they fly hundreds of kilometres overhead. I've said that Troopers can only attack Aircraft once they have already been shot at. This represents the Aircraft flying extremely low (since their guns can't be angled downwards) much like the Gunships entering the Geonosis Arena. And you also seem to forget that Troopers don't do very much damage to Aircraft, in fact they get a handicap while shooting at Aircraft. Yes, this makes Troopers very weak against Aircraft... but isn't this what you're arguing for?! Troopers are not good against Aircraft! That's what AA Mechs and other Aircraft are for!

saberhagen
10-05-2003, 09:12 AM
*finally stops laughing about someone so opinionated about the game who has never even heard of pompa*

Well, I'm not going to split hairs. My points weren't that important and not totally relevant.

I would say, though, that if the rebs have the best air in the game, wouldn't that make them overpowered? They are one of the strongest jedi civs (fwiw) and also have good troopers and at least half decent MDs. Compared to this, the Naboo have nothing but air, jedi and strikes and are probably the worst trooper civ.

Getting back on topic though, in the current game air/jedi civs depend very heavily on nova, and if it runs out they're screwed. As I've said before, when I play as rebs I often end up relying on repeaters/MDs when I can't afford to build any more air.

DK_Viceroy
10-05-2003, 10:26 AM
I have not turned i'm merely stating that it would take a lot of troopers since the average fighter employed by the empire and Rebel Alliance Republic and the GREAT Confederacy are too fast for ONE trooper to hit but 10 COULD i'm not ruling it out i'm merely saying that it would need toi be balanced somehow maybe like i said we could have mech destroyers firing at air as well.I WOULD HARDLY TURN VOSTOK YOUR IDEAS ARE ACTUALLY REALISTIC AND WHEN YOU REALISE THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG YOU CORRECT IT AND BACK DOWN UNLIKE SOME WHO HAVE YET TO LEARN


Never a thinker are you windu you just proved our point about rockets they are unique to the REPUBLIC THE CONFEDERACY AND SELECT BOUNTY HUNTERS


The Prophet Of Truth

Admiral Vostok
10-05-2003, 10:48 AM
Thanks Viceroy, glad you realise I'm not as stubborn as some. Glad to hear you haven't turned, and just to put your mind at ease you will need several Troopers to take down even one Fighter, just as it should be. Troopers should not be your primary defense against air, but they can still shoot at it. Just like in the current game how Bounty Hunters are not your primary defense against Mechs, but they can still shoot at them.

DK_Viceroy
10-05-2003, 11:51 AM
Well Hey The True Way ANd The Church Of Purist Must Stick Together ON This what he claims is in violation of both of our teachings

Be suure to watch out for the 2 new civ's in my analogy




The Prophet Of Truth

The True Way

Darth Windu
10-05-2003, 02:41 PM
Saber - no, it wouldnt. You have to remember that my idea for SWGB2 is quite different to SWGB. For example, with the Rebels, you get-
- no mechs
- large variation of infantry that can entrench themselves
- large number of aircraft

Vostok - the point that YOU are failing to realise is that apart from infantry weapons having zero effect of shields, due to the elevation of, and power of, aircraft weapons, aircraft can engage ground targets at a far longer range than ground forces can enage aircraft with the same wepaons.

lukeiamyourdad
10-05-2003, 05:08 PM
hehe it's been a while since I posted hehe

Now now now...

Viceroy- Rockets might not be unique to the Republic or Confed only. If you've played any SW flight sims you'll realize that you can use heavy rockets to shoot down capital ships and you never play as the confed or rep.

Infantry shooting air- As rare as this is, I agree with Windu. It's pointless in realism terms to have infantry do 1 damage to fighters.
However, if the trooper had a heavy repeater(the one we get in Gb1), it would actually make sense to use that against aircrafts.

DK_Viceroy
10-05-2003, 06:00 PM
http://hangarbay.tripod.com/td-tde.html

That is what the BEST STARFIGHTER in the galaxy looks like it enterred mass production shortly before the battle of endor however production was sabotaged by a rogue admiral by the name of Zarrin who feared that this fighter may be able to stop his efforts.

Good point luke we'd never really discussed which trooper weapons would have an effectthanks for the valid point

and if i said that such a thing as a TIE Shuttle was in the films and cannon how many people would dispute that

Try This SIte Out as well i found it particularly interesting in my search for a picture of the TIE Defender at Endor

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/tie.html#tied

The Prophet Of Truth

The True Way

lukeiamyourdad
10-05-2003, 07:01 PM
I think you posted stuff about the Tie Defender in the wrong thread.
By the way, The Tie Defender never entered mass production, only a few were made. Zaarin did not stop the production of the Tie Defender but rather took the scientists and made them for himself.
However, the Missile Boat came along and effectively countered the Tie Defender until they stopped the Missile Boat project due to the rebel almost acquiring one. Tie Defenders disapeared along with Zaarin.


As for repeaters:

I for one thinks this is the most logical infantry unit to be allowed to shoot air units. Rocket units although non-contradictory can be at times un-star warsy. Repeater on the other hand probably have a great effect on Aircraft.
Like Windu pointed out, Lucas based the battles on WWII. In WWII, heavy machine guns could shoot down low flying planes.

It makes more sense then plain old troopers with blaster carbines.

Admiral Vostok
10-05-2003, 10:59 PM
Actually I was going to make those civs with Repeaters unable to shoot air, because I thought it would be too powerful. I'm going to keep things as they are because remember, it is not the Trooper's job to shoot down Aircraft, it is left to more specialised machinery. And to be honest I don't really see the difference between letting Troopers do a tiny amount of damage to Aircraft and not letting them shoot at it at all. At least the first way is realistic and helps to integrate Aircraft more seemlessly into the game.

Sithmaster_821
10-05-2003, 11:15 PM
I thought we were discussing Windu's ideas here not Vostoks. Call me lazy, but I dont feel like arguing the whole infantry thing in two places.

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-06-2003, 08:05 PM
First off.....

Do any of you actually play this game online on the zone?

Secondly do you realize this game is meant for RM/DM so you have to be balaced.

Thirdly think about the game as a whole and balance issues

Fourth, Windu you dont know the game if you think Rebel air is better then Naboo air. Naboo air is -10% cost AND 10% faster. Rebel air is just tied for 2nd best with republic.

DK_Viceroy
10-06-2003, 08:17 PM
While some other people on this forum do play on the zone i'm the one on most frequently but just because of that doesn't mwan that people who play on the zone know more about the game it just means they get to play a larger amount of different people.

We've all been discussing balance issues especially in stregthening air because while you can win with mechs you can't really win a game with air it's too easily countered not to be all that effective if your playing against an experienced player. that's why we've been discussing wheter troopers should be able to fire at air because of thoughts of scrapping anti air troopers because rockets for any other civ than the Republic and Confederacy rockets arn't star warsy torpedo's arn't rockets so they don't count.

Darth Windu
10-07-2003, 02:35 AM
Viceroy - what gave you that idea? I have no intention of dropping my Infantry Rocket idea at any point.

_IVIeGaTI2oN_ - i do know the game, and if you paid attention you would have realised i was referring to the movies and my idea for SWGB2

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-07-2003, 03:07 AM
uh huh and from lookin at the movies wat made u think that naboo air was inferior to rebel? just becuz rebels were spent more time on?

btw its possible to win with all air if you actually tried it. Trannies are good meath shields and AC are air.

Darth Windu
10-07-2003, 06:32 AM
_IVIeGaTI2oN_ - i think of Naboo air as inferior to Rebel air because-
1. Naboo have 1 type of combat aircraft, Rebels have 5
2. Naboo struggled to destroy 1 ship, Rebels destroyed many ships and 2 death stars
3. Naboo are a security force, Rebels are military

Need any more?

Admiral Vostok
10-07-2003, 07:03 AM
I concur with the above post from Windu (but not with most of Windu's other posts).

Frozted_MM's
10-07-2003, 07:05 AM
well I cant c any balance in this idea wat so ever talk about all headed for the strongest civs. 8 empire players here we come :D

Admiral Vostok
10-07-2003, 07:14 AM
I also concur with the above post from Frozted.

saberhagen
10-07-2003, 08:46 AM
PMSL again

Now you think you know more than Mega. This just gets funnier...

Syndic
10-07-2003, 10:11 AM
ROTFLMAO!

"This pompei person"

Pompei - as you obviously never figured out - is one of those rare people who actually back up their arguments with FACTS directly from the Scenario Editor, applied to continous balance testing.

you on the other hand, want the game's balance(which is second to none) be distrupted just because Rebels for example, didn't have Mechs in the movies.

As for you dissing Mega, he's one of the top players out there, so I suggest you play him before you feel up to dissing him.

Hell if you dont want to play him play ME! :D

Now to address your unknowing of the games inner workings:

1. Naboo air is the best because:

a) They have 10% discount in T4
b) They have all the upgrades
c) They are 10% faster when you upgrade them

Now to elaborate on that:

10% discount means that a Naboo vs Rebel player will cram out more air. 1-0 for Naboo.
Both sides have all air upgrades. still 1-0 for Naboo.
10% faster means that Naboo FU fighters are the equivalent of awings, only more durable(this has been proven by Pompei)

Total: 2-0 for Naboo.

2. Your credibility

Seeing how I've never seen or heard of you in the inter+++/xpert circles I think its safe to assume youre either a newbie or a scenario player. The latter being most probable.

So by definition, your whole gaming experience rests on playing scenarios where units are tweaked in effort do somehow convert a RTS game into a RPG. :rolleyes:

Play RM a bit, learn how to manage an economy and an army, then go around calling Pompei, Mega and after you read this mine's names. ;)

Good website to check out strategies:

www.mrfixitonline.com

In case you want to supply a valid argument, my Zone Name is CIR_Syndic and Im always up for a 1v1 game, standard RM Settings(random land map, tiny map, standard resources, fast speed, normal map reveal, conquest victory conditions).


~S~

Admiral Vostok
10-07-2003, 10:50 AM
People, people! Settle down, please! I feel I need to step in on Windu's behalf, but the Force knows why I'm doing so... anyway, Windu is referring to the movies, not the game, in stating that Rebel air is better than Naboo. Clearly from the movies the Naboo are inexperienced and inflexible while the Rebels are battle-hardened with well-rounded.

And because we haven't heard of some supposedly famous Zoner speaks nothing of our ability to play the game, more of our ability to avoid the Zone. It is possible to play RM games without resorting to the Zone, is it not?

Nexu
10-07-2003, 12:26 PM
I think gungans have the best air. There is nothing worse than having a large army of trooper and mechs only to have 50 birdies fly above and shower them with droppings. It is quite a disgusting site. And smells bad to boot.

What is the zone? Is that like Michael Jordan? I heard Marv Alberts say one time that "he is in the zone". Did Pompei play for the bulls too?

boyd222
10-07-2003, 01:39 PM
Its Ice btw

I have to agree with nexu lol gungan air rocks :)
admiral i don't mean to sound mean but u really haven't played completive RM until you play in the inter+/expert games online.

and like syn said pomp probably knows the most about this game through testing in the editor out of anyone on earth but the designers themselves.
and yes naboo air is better then rebs in this game and yes it is very very possible to win by going all air(trannies, acers, fighters, etc).

Nexu
10-07-2003, 04:46 PM
What is the gungan AC supposed to be? It looks like a cross between a turd and a blimp.

QuiCKa
10-07-2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
1. Naboo have 1 type of combat aircraft, Rebels have 5
2. Naboo struggled to destroy 1 ship, Rebels destroyed many ships and 2 death stars
3. Naboo are a security force, Rebels are military

Hm. Darth Windu, you should really think about what your saying. Its completely lame. No offense, but I have never heard off you and you know nothing about RTS.

In RTS, you need balance, without balance, the game is limited. E.g. Balance = Counterattacks. Nothing is super, or you can win the game with.
Your saying that the rebels should have more air, and no mechs? So think about this. If your rebels, and all you make it air, all I have to do is add mass of AA to my frontline attack and your screwed, because as your trying to destroy my mixed units of mechs, hvy weapons, troopers and cannons, my AA troopers+AA mobiles are killing you. Which leaves you open with no defence. Because you have nothing to throw at me apart from air.

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-07-2003, 07:49 PM
Im just glad you will never make an RTS game Windu.....you so DO NOT know about balance.

BTW I think Tie Fighters are the best....didnt we see over 6 in the movie? I remember Empire Strikes Back and Return of The Jedi had a ton of new ones.....so Empire rules.

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-07-2003, 07:51 PM
btw playing computer compared to a real person is wrong. Computer cheats and walls like a mutha.

GiRL_Hostility
10-07-2003, 10:17 PM
wow i didnt know the noobs had thier own forum.

Admiral Vostok
10-08-2003, 12:05 AM
Okay, all you new people listen up: we are talking about a possible SWGB2 here, not the current SWGB you are all familiar with.

Don't presume I only play against the computer. To be honest I don't see the difference between playing someone you've never met on the Zone and playing your good friend whose really good at RTS games over a modem or direct IP.

_IVIeGaTI2oN_: You are correct that Windu knows nothing of balance. He wants to give the Rebels no mechs, yet he has built in such a fundamental weakness to Aircraft (their continuous need for Gas) that it will be virtually impossible for them to win. The Rebels have no amazingly good Trooper abilities, so I can't see them being a balanced civ at all.

ice_w0lv
10-08-2003, 12:51 AM
clueless muthaz.

Darth Windu
10-08-2003, 01:00 AM
Syndic - as Vostok said, im talking about SWGB2, not the original. Also, so what if i dont know about an online player? That means what to me?

Quicka - you know nothing about me, nor about my knowledge of RTS games. I have a large and varied collection and have been playing them for many years, all completed on the hardest difficulty setting.
Also, you have to remember that in my idea, there are no AA Troopers or AA Mobile's.

_IVIeGaTI2oN_ - not quite. The Empire had 4 TIE's, the TIE Fighter (ep4), Vader's Fighter (ep4), TIE Bomber (ep5) and TIE Interceptor (ep6)

Vostok - actually, Rebel infantry recieve the Spy and Engineer, with their own special powers. In addition, all non-Jedi Rebel infantry can entrench themselves, increasing their range, armour and rate-of-fire. Furthermore, Rebel Rocket Troopers recieve an anti-armour bonus, making them the most effective in the game.

ice_w0lv
10-08-2003, 01:03 AM
boyd , who do you claim to be? me is one n olny Ice get it right

Admiral Vostok
10-08-2003, 03:24 AM
Windu, I'd advise against advertising who is on your ignore list. No good can come of it.

GiRL_Hostility
10-08-2003, 07:24 AM
guys me , mega, nexu and others that have replied to this post(dont feel like scrolling through) are experts at this game. we could beat you guys 1v7. if you dont believe me 7 of you guys arrange an "ip game" and me or mega will be happy to ablige you. and when swgb 2 comes out(if it does) we will own you 1v7 in that too. in fact give us 1 week with any rts and we will win 1v7.

given this fact. you should listen to what mega has to say. he knows every little detail about this game and all rts games. and you can learn allot from what he has to say. AND the developement of swg2 can be greatly improved by what he has to say. he has a post on mfo, on what REALLY should be done in swg2 to bring it too perfection.

the reason why some of us experts came here and ruined your little fun is because we are afraid to **** that someone will actually listen to your ideas from lucas arts and pass the info onto ensemble. Thus turning the game into heroes of might and majic and pissing us off unbelievably.

im sure mega can dig up his post and copy it here. and when he does all of you better read and learn, because mega ownz u.

-hostility

Frozted_MM's
10-08-2003, 07:32 AM
1st of all we dont pass on anything wateva lucas arts designers come up with is what we get. These are just brain storms/ideas for what WE might like to see in the next game if wateva we posted hear went to LA itself im sure u would c alot of crazy s**t on these forums.


i play the game almost every day and yes I dont wont it turning out crappy at all.

PS- dont worry the release 4 swgb 2 is probably a long way off also feel free to post your own ideas up I really look forward to reading them.

OHH AND THANX FOR THE RECORD SITE !!!!

GiRL_Hostility
10-08-2003, 08:00 AM
ya np on the site. already there are some great games there. im gunna be adding allot of features to that site as long as it stays active.

yea you are totally righti doubt any of this will ever be put into the hands of someone developing the game. and even if it did, he would most likely laff and throw it away.

nonetheless if there is actually going to be a sequal to this game i am already prepared to be disapointed. just going by the rts games that have been released recently. which imo were a big disapointment.

here is the fundamental problem.

companies are going to market thier game to the general game buying public. if you drew a bell curve of skill level players most would fall in the middle somewhere. so as a company you can make the most money by trying to target that market.

now most average skilled rts players want to buy a game, take it home out of the box. install it and play. they dont wanna have to deal with a learning curve and have to micro thier eco and or military. they just wanna place thier units and watch some cool explosions.

for the average expert player. the more micro the better. an expert player wants a eco that is hard to manage and takes allot of work. they also want military units that require allot of intensive care.

so what the expert player finds challenging is what makes the average player smash the game into a thousand pieces and set it on fire.

you will never see an expert player in a game like RON for instance because there is practically no micro to set a good player apart. its just a bunch of people who know how to play and a bunch of people who dont.

which is why you will find that the best rts players still play, aokc/aok, swg/cc or aom.

swg/cc is already well balanced as it is. plays fast with lots of micro. to be honest if thier was a sequal i wouldnt want to see much changed at all as far as balancing or gameplay. i would like to see a few more civs, maybe bring it up to par with aoc. some additional units along with counters. maybe another tech level and an additional resource.

i would like to see some things done about: laggy games, out of sync errors, and support for firewalls. as well as an upgrades zone which included rated games. also i would like to see improveement on the random map engine. first problem, its really not random, secondly it often spits otu maps that are completely one sided.

thanks guys,
hostiliy

DarthMaulUK
10-08-2003, 09:54 AM
Lets all take a deep breath here.

Lucasarts do look at the forums for ideas and listen to community ideas, which helps Garry decide the direction of the game, combined with his own vision.

I know people like Mega and yes, they are very good players who could probably end a battle inside 10 minutes! hehe

This forum is for players of all standards and lets keep things on topic, otherwise ......

DMUK

Admiral Vostok
10-08-2003, 11:02 AM
DMUK is wise, DMUK is good...

Let's get back on topic. GiRL_Hostility, I can see why you got your name, but instead of just dumping on our ideas how about a little constructive criticism as well? So what if you can beat us? It doesn't matter whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game, as far as I'm concerned. If the game is fun I'll play it, as will most other people, as simple as that. Whether I can beat it or not is secondary. It doesn't matter how much micro or whatever is in the game, but having said that balance is important, because no fun can come from imbalance.

Now, due to the staleness of this thread, thanks in part to Windu's decision to not change a single piece of his plan no matter what critics say, everyone go check out mine.

GiRL_Hostility
10-08-2003, 11:17 AM
ya well, i tried to be nice to you guys and participate in your discussion. i also stuck up for some of my friends online while still trying to be civil with you guys. which you guys were extremely rude to. like you are being to me now. funny how these guys can say whatever they want and dont get threatened by a moderator.

well its obvious that im not welcome here. so dont bother banning me i wont post here again.

before i go i think its really cool that you guys are making the effort putting these documents together and stuff for the new game. But if you really want the game to be good, you should set your arrogance asside, stop being so close minded, and listen to what other players have to say. instead of banning them form the board if they dont agree. if anyone is really serious about putting this kinda work together, they should team with an expert player or at least discuss it.

Darth Windu
10-08-2003, 11:30 AM
Girl_hostility - if you read through the posts, it is your new group that began being rude to us, not the other way around.
Like Vostok said, it would be fine if it was constructive critism, but its not. Instead, all you guys (and gals) are doing is trashing our ideas and not coming up with anything yourselves.
I am quite happy to be civil with everyone here if they are willing to be civil towards me.

Vostok - not true, i have just changed a few features of my idea but have not put it up on my site yet, i'll do that soon. The changes are-
1. Geonosian Fighter - weapon becomes a short range area-of-effect attack

2. Tibianna Gas is collected in the same way as before, but is now required to build aircraft instead of maintaining them

Darth Windu
10-08-2003, 11:31 AM
Girl_hostility - if you read through the posts, it is your new group that began being rude to us, not the other way around.
Like Vostok said, it would be fine if it was constructive criticism, but its not. Instead, all you guys (and gals) are doing is trashing our ideas and not coming up with anything yourselves.
I am quite happy to be civil with everyone here if they are willing to be civil towards me.

Vostok - not true, i have just changed a few features of my idea but have not put it up on my site yet, i'll do that soon. The changes are-
1. Geonosian Fighter - weapon becomes a short range area-of-effect attack

2. Tibianna Gas is collected in the same way as before, but is now required to build aircraft instead of maintaining them

lukeiamyourdad
10-08-2003, 07:40 PM
Ok now I'm back.

Not very glad with what has happened here.
Although I'm not a mod(and god knows if I was I would ban some people here, no not you windu), I would like people to hear this.

Now, we are a peaceful forum although we did have some problems with each others, we never did this ever. This never happened before as long as I can remember.
You are welcomed here, no doubt, but you can't just come here and say:''I'm a zone player I get to say something the rest of the world can shut up!''.
Not even Viceroy went berserk with that fact.

This isn't a hitlist but still:

Girl:Getting here and calling us noobs isn't civil so when you said you TRIED to be nice...yeah...next time try harder.
IVIeGaTI2oN: Most of us dislike the zone. Too many jerks.
Syndic: Ha! So we aren't experts and we should just shut up? Oh yeah what's next? Blond people with blue eyes are perfect?
All others: Remember this: We have been playing the game on different levels and never bashed someone who wasn't good or a newbie. You should do the same. You may be good at RTS but we might own you in other games.

You all are welcomed here, no problem. We normally welcome new forumites without prejudice, you should learn also that we are trying to plan for SWGB2, you might not like it, it isn't our problem. The game doesn't look like what we would like it to be? We don't mind. We're just doing it for fun.
Windu just posted his ideas and you came over and instead of just argue a civilized way(like the rest of us), you started bashing on someone and disrespecting his opinions.


P.S: I'm trying not to be mean but if in real life all of you are pathetic geeks, you shouldn't be bashing anyone.

Syndic
10-08-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad


Syndic: Ha! So we aren't experts and we should just shut up? Oh yeah what's next? Blond people with blue eyes are perfect?

P.S: I'm trying not to be mean but if in real life all of you are pathetic geeks, you shouldn't be bashing anyone.

Read my post for a change, in case you misread it I'll spell out what I meant here:

Dont make claims you can't back up with facts.

Anyone can claim that AT AT's own airspeeders because 2/4 AT AT's got smashed in the movies, while they killed loads of speeders.

You try sending 12 fully upgraded Airspeeders on 4 fully upgraded AT AT's in-game and see what happens.

P.S.

It has been psychologically proven that people often find in others the traits and perks they despise in themselves. Maybe you should re-evaluate your "pathetic geek" statement?

Or back it up with facts, instead of making wild claims?

I believe that sufficiently proves my point. And on the record, being a newbie doesn't mean you are less then human. In fact, I'll train any newbie who politely asks me via ZM(CIR_Syndic).

Syndic - as Vostok said, im talking about SWGB2, not the original. Also, so what if i dont know about an online player? That means what to me?

If you read my post, you will notice I wasn't commenting on anything but your disregard of Pompei and the point of BALANCE in the game.

Not knowing about someone who left his handprint(along with mine) on the history of GBG might not mean anything to you, but to alot of people out there it would get you a severe social stigma.

As I stated before, I merely say that in relation to the original game plus the expansion, you should at the very least attempt to test your claims.

It is partly a reason why the Scenario Editor was implemented, though it got abused by people who have this peculiar inclination to turn a RTS game into a RPG game.

Admiral Vostok
10-08-2003, 11:56 PM
Well it's good to see the thread has returned to something resembling civility.

We un-enlightened who think Pompeii refers to the village destroyed by Mount Vesuvius obviously need to be educated. So Pompeii is an above-average RMer? What sort of "handprint" have Pompeii and your good self left on GB? Please, start at the beginning so we can fully understand the significance.

But those details aside, you should understand that we are going into the design of SWGB2 from an angle that although we are building on the work already done in SWGB1 we are changing many aspects. The Naboo and Rebel Air is just one aspect of this. Going by the movies, the variety of the Rebel Air Force along with their success in the various campaigns indicates they are far superior to that of the Naboo. SWGB1 does not adequately relect this as you have pointed out, with the Naboo being the stronger Air civ. This was obviously done as a means of balance in the original game, though that doesn't mean that doing things the other way will necessarily be unbalanced. We envision SWGB2 to be a very different game, not in style but in mechanics, so balance can still be achieved. Another similar example not yet mentioned, but one which I intend to work on in my plan, is the strength of the Republic's Air: although the Gunship is one of the best units in the Star Wars universe, it hardly means the Republic has a strong Air Force. I intend to weaken their Air yet strengthen their Mechs/Heavies, to bring things more in line with the movies. Of course things were done the way they were in SWGB1 or balance, but since our planned games work differently it doesn't necessarily have to be the same.

Frozted_MM's
10-09-2003, 12:22 AM
Well I definately don't want this idea in the next swgb2 game balance is all over the place. And your players like me,mega,nexu,host its not good to have no balance in a game and very annoying. Look at the CnC games people are fighting over there cause 1 civ dominates the rest and they have to make 10 patches just to solve the problems the designers made for themselves. We definately don't want this happening here I like the ideas but guys don't exspect everyone to like them if they are

1) Not balance
2) Have gameplay and not just realism to the movies
3) I think we can all say tech levels have to stay otherwise games will go to quick we need that boundary to keep the game fun and even.


-Was DS_Frozt but they r noobs.

Syndic
10-09-2003, 12:34 AM
We un-enlightened who think Pompeii refers to the village destroyed by Mount Vesuvius obviously need to be educated. So Pompeii is an above-average RMer? What sort of "handprint" have Pompeii and your good self left on GB? Please, start at the beginning so we can fully understand the significance.

Pompei if memory serves, started his GBG career when the demo came out - member of the SPQR clan that dominated the early GBG RM scene alongside Xx and later JoRt.

Pompei is the synonim(spelling?) for rushing to all RMers, just as Sidious_JoRt is synonim for booming to RMers. He is well-known for backing up his arguments with facts straight from a Scen Editor testing marathon. You could say Pomp left a nice handprint.

On the other hand, I left a not so nice handprint. In the early days of GBG when CIR had enough numbers so that there were usually 10-16 CIR members online at all times, a whisper was enough to cause a war. 14 wars happened to be exact, and 14 clans fell until CIR finally settled down.

Besides, throughout GBG's history some of the greatest players learned their game in CIR. The legendary Mame was(still is, he never retired) a CIR member, along with alot of others. Which is quite normal, since CIR recruited members at an alarming rate back then.

Now a days we make do with 10-15 people, a good solid core of gamers having fun, ressurecting the magic of Star Wars if not on the Zone, then atleast inside our clan.

-------

Concerning your ideas... What I'd really like to see, is a space-based RTS, something like Star Trek:Armada. Civs could, for example, be Galactic Empire, Rebels/New Republic, Yuuzhan Vong, Republic, Naboo and/or some other civ like Trade Federation.

They could even keep the concept of GBG - Troopers=TIE Fighters, Mech Destroyers=Dreadnoughts, Strike Mechs=Lancer Frigates, Assault Mechs=Star Destroyers, Granaders=TIE Bombers etc etc.

Im shure they could tweak it nice, hell they could build the game off GBG - tech levels, etc etc just change the graphics, names and balance things out alot = hit game.

Preferably, this time they would add some cash tourneys, and rated. :D

Syndic
10-09-2003, 12:36 AM
Hey frozt why dont you hook up with me, CIR's a noob-free enviroment. :D We just take a few every now and then and train em up.

Admiral Vostok
10-09-2003, 12:50 AM
Oh, I thought by "handprint" you meant something everyone who plays the game can see, such as contributing to concepts that were incorporated into the game through the Expansio Pack and subsequet patch.

What you're referring to there is basically leaving a mark within the online gaming community, which I'm sure you're aware does not consist of every fan of SWGB.

Frozted- I for one am not suggesting anything that will seriously unbalance the game. A great balance for my ideas can be achieved through tweaking of costs, build times, etc, while maintaining the general guidelines I've set out. Now that Windu has thankfully abandoned his ongoing Gas requirement for Aircraft, it shows he isn't as stubborn as I thought he was and balancing issues within his plan can be addressed more seriously.

Darth Windu
10-09-2003, 06:39 AM
Syndic - as i have said before, i would love to see a SW space-based RTS in the near future, along similar lines to Star Trek Armada and Armada 2, both of which i own.

However, this thread, and others, and for the express purpose of a ground-based RTS, which is why we are calling it SWGB2.

Syndic
10-09-2003, 08:14 AM
In that case:

1. Keep the concept of GBG
2. Change units/civs
3. Add RoN or Empires:DOMW graphic engine

Wrap it and sell it. :p

lukeiamyourdad
10-09-2003, 07:04 PM
Syndic: I suggest you stop calling people noobs. It's insulting and annoying.

Anyway...

Shouldn't we try to have a better graphic engine then RoN or EmpireEarth(if that's what you meant by Empire), something along the new LotR RTS?
I've seen screenies and damn!

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-09-2003, 07:12 PM
Played LOTR demo.....lags terribly with 32mb gcard and 256mb ram 1ghz......also graphics are too dark.

lukeiamyourdad
10-09-2003, 07:17 PM
Well of course,

However, better graphics are the way to go.
2 years from now, I'm guessing a 1 Ghz comp with 32mb of Video RAM won't be good enough for anything. It's life...

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-09-2003, 07:24 PM
go to Rise Of Nations......a game that came out in April this year.

There minimum specs were half of wat I have xcept the vid card.

Only 100 max play the game online because some idiots in the company put bad code or whatever but it lags so bad unless you have something like a 2ghz, 512mb ram, 64+vid card. Even with those specs it lags at times. And lets face it who has a top of the line computer? I say 15-20% of online gamers. Nothing more.

lukeiamyourdad
10-09-2003, 07:28 PM
Well we'll see if those stats are still true 2 years from now.
Besides, single player does exist(I know you'll flame me for this but still I played SP more often then MP).

Syndic
10-09-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Syndic: I suggest you stop calling people noobs. It's insulting and annoying.



I suggest you get your facts straight. I never called anyone by name a newbie, nor implied that this forum is a newbie-enviroment.

You seem to have a grudge, shall we solve it like average gamers in-game, or like intellectuals over a game of chess? Or a third alternative involving a broom, an ass and the Force Pull power. ;)

DK_Viceroy
10-10-2003, 09:27 AM
I'm glad i missed this




er em discussion

the ones that just recently joined us are excellent players and i would gladly test my skills against them to see how i measure up


TIE Fighters

the empire actually have 5 that appear in the movie

check episode 5 check through all the asteroid scenes and you see that there is a variant of TIE fighter that can drop bombs but is not a TIE Bomber and we all know for a fact that Standard TIE fighters cannot drop bombs however this variant can do bombing runs.


Furthermore the Game DOESN' HAVE to be ground based it can have space elements if you check out my idea i've just recently posted the scale i would have for it

saberhagen
10-10-2003, 09:34 AM
Where???

I can only remember seeing TIE bombers dropping bombs, even in the special edition.

lukeiamyourdad
10-10-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Syndic
Hey frozt why dont you hook up with me, CIR's a noob-free enviroment. :D We just take a few every now and then and train em up.

It's not a direct insult but it's a subliminal message.

Forgive me, I may have misread someone else's post and thought it was yours, but nevertheless, I hate people coming into a room and showing off their above-average skills.
Modesty is a great virtue.


Viceroy- You do know what a Tie Bomber looks like do you?

Darth Windu
10-11-2003, 06:48 AM
Viceroy - i suggest laying off the wacky weed while watching the movies. First you imagine seeing a TIE Defender in RotJ and now this! Can't be good for ya...

luke - i agree with you about Syndic (BTW Syndic, cut it out), also, i believe Syndic was referring to the upcoming game 'Empires of the Modern Age', not Empire Earth (although it is made by the same people, different engine)

DK_Viceroy
10-11-2003, 08:19 AM
Actually there are 6 types of TIE in the films the first one here

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/rb/needa.gif

it looks like a TIE but is a shuttle it's a little difficult to make out but you can tell it's a TIE

Careful Windu i might decide to report that if there is one thing i can't stand are drug takers smokers or people who have a trumped up opinion of themselves

ANother thing maybe you should check your idea on the subject of it

ARC Trooper expensive and slowly built unit that is faster and with a longer LOS than standard trooper but slightly less range and firepower, can cloak and place small explosive charges on enemy vehicles and buildings

That is overpowered by an standard in red alert 2 that would be a super powered Tanya for your idea i only hope it is rediculously expensive or are you trying to overpower the republic the ARC Trooper were very limited and only about 30 of them were grown and after the battle of geonosis no more were due to the fact that jango was dead and they couldn't be trained by jango any more.

saberhagen
10-11-2003, 06:08 PM
Captain Needa's shuttle is NOT a TIE fighter and doesn't look anything like one, even in that low quality picture. I'm sure we can all remember seeing it clearly in the film.

Darth Windu
10-12-2003, 02:00 AM
Viceroy - besides the extremely poor picture quality, that is a standard Imperial shuttle. As for the 'wacky weed' comment, i made it in jest in order to express my disbelief about how many things you can get wrong about the movies, when they appear pretty clear to me.

As for the ARC Trooper. Like Tanya in RA2? Sort of. Other units like that include the Navy SEAL, and also the SAS trooper in the upcoming Empires of the Modern Age.

As a special-operations trooper, the job of the ARC Trooper would be recon, like all other special-ops groups. Secondary missions would include sabotage of enemy buildings.
Although this may make the ARC Trooper overpowered, you have to remember it is expensive and built slowly, and if you decide to engage enemy aircraft, Jedi/Sith (although they are better against jedi than normal troopers) or mechs with them, you'd better have a lot of money because you'll need to train some new guys.

Admiral Vostok
10-12-2003, 05:46 AM
Viceroy - that is not a TIE variant by any stretch - for starters it has no solar panel wings. I agree it is not the same as the shuttle such as that used by the Endor Strike Team, but it is clearly not a TIE either. Obviously it is some kind of shuttle used mostly for short-distance ferrying between starships.

And there are only four TIE Fighter variants in the movies, no more, no less. Trust me on this, as Lord of Purists I am fully aware what is and is not in the movies. They are:
- TIE Fighter (first seen in A New Hope)
- Vader's Modified TIE Fighter, commonly understood to be the TIE Advanced X1 (first seen in A New Hope)
- TIE Bomber (first seen in The Empire Strikes Back)
- TIE Interceptor (first seen in Return of the Jedi)

Frozted_MM's
10-12-2003, 07:23 AM
Well MR Purist I hope you saw the group of ET spieces in the senate cause I did and thought it was quite amuzing.

Admiral Vostok
10-12-2003, 10:03 AM
Yes I did. What is your point?

Frozted_MM's
10-13-2003, 02:46 AM
Just checking :D

Admiral Vostok
10-15-2003, 04:44 AM
Nice sig by the way, Frozted. :D

Oh, and I'd check the spelling of "annihilated". I shudder to think what "annilated" involves...

Frozted_MM's
10-15-2003, 05:10 AM
Yea well when i find the time to post here I'm half asleep........

CorranSec
10-21-2003, 10:04 AM
My, that was fun. Thanks for the tip-off, Luke's dad.

If this thread ever comes anywhere near being on-topic again, I might actually take the time to read Windu's idea, if only for a bit of amusement. But as it stands now... well, it's quite clear...

Darth Windu
10-22-2003, 12:30 PM
Corran - i would actually appreciate your opinion regarding my idea, so just go to my website and take a look...

LSF_Tango1
10-23-2003, 03:59 AM
boo :)

That right me still here looking at these post :)

hi all and hope to see you all later on :)

CorranSec
10-23-2003, 07:53 AM
Right, I'll take a look at it sometime soon. Although I might turn out to be quite critical. Anyone around to back me up?

lukeiamyourdad
10-23-2003, 09:22 PM
A LOT of people:D

Frozted_MM's
10-24-2003, 01:40 AM
Been there done that if this game was ever released the media and lawyers would have a field day.

Darth Windu
10-24-2003, 03:10 AM
I actually agree with Frozted...sortof. I really dont see how lawyers would have a field day, but i wont stop you dreaming.

I agree about the media. They would be rather excited and have a field day over an RTS finally worthy of the name Star Wars.

luke - what's your problem with my idea?

Admiral Vostok
10-24-2003, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
They would be rather excited and have a field day over an RTS finally worthy of the name Star War.Star Wars, on the other hand, it is not worthy of. :D

Frozted_MM's
10-24-2003, 07:49 AM
EXTRA EXTRA NEW SW GAME SENDS LA BROKE AND FLOODED WITH LAWYER BILLS!!!

lol what makes you different from other template creators darth isat least they admitt when they rip off games not say its all there work.....

lukeiamyourdad
10-25-2003, 01:40 AM
Windu-Nothing I was just joking around:D

If LA took some of our ideas we could soooo sue them:D but we won't right?

Frozted_MM's
10-25-2003, 06:05 AM
IM 100% certain that you guys would lose since they could afford alot better representation than any of us could afford. And there is really no proof of these being our ideas is there?

Darth Windu
10-26-2003, 09:22 AM
EXTRA EXTRA LUCASARTS MAKES BEST STAR WARS GAME TO DATE BASED ON THE MYSTERIOUS 'DARTH WINDU'S TEMPLATE!!!!!!!!

Why is there even any talk of lawyers? I am doing this template because i want a good SW RTS, not money. I would also like to point out that ANY talk of lawsuits will make lucasarts back off all of our ideas, so can it.

lukeiamyourdad
10-26-2003, 04:59 PM
god people can't joke around anymore...

windu-what the hell is with your double posting today?

Darth Windu
10-27-2003, 08:00 AM
luke - my net was going really slowly, so i had the press the 'submit' button a few times before it would work, thats why

Also, with joking, thats fine, just dont mention the L-word.

Frozted_MM's
10-27-2003, 09:41 AM
In this case anything to make them look away from this idea needs to be used and if you double post get off your ass and delete it.

CorranSec
10-28-2003, 08:08 AM
Yet another word guaranteed to bring back memories of Windu's past 'exploits'... need I mention the G-word...:p

Also nice to see that you edited that little 'War' mistake.

Admiral Vostok
10-28-2003, 09:47 AM
Not meaning to jump on the already over-burdened Windu-flaming wagon, but it is amusing to see Windu edit the "War" mistake whilst not bothering to delete his double posting.

Darth Windu
10-29-2003, 03:48 AM
Actually, i have corrected the 'double posting' error.

PS: for anyone that hasnt read my template, DO IT! DO IT NOW! please

Darth Windu
11-19-2003, 11:10 AM
Alrighty folks, just letting everyone know that the Confederacy of Independant Systems has its own private little section on my updated site now. It's still not 100% but go check it out and tell me what you think.