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View Full Version : Dueling against BOTs.. why not as good as single player?


Katt
10-03-2003, 03:17 AM
When I play the single player campaign, and run into enemy jedi's, the battles are sometimes very cool and challenging. They are constantly aware of you and reacting to you. It feels a lot like I'm fighting someone online.

However, if I set up a "multiplayer" dueling server, and just duel against bots, the bot just runs around and I spend 1/2 the time chasing it around (it's just me versus one bot). Why can't the bots act like the single player jedi do? If I want to have good fights, I have to spend my time reloading moments in the single player campaigns .. but then I'm stuck with the state of my character (force powers and light sabre choice). Why can't they get the bots to act the same way in the dueling multi-player versions, since there's really no powerups to be had? No reason for the bots to be running around staring at me while running.. ? They should just be able to fight me and try taking me out like they do in single-player!

Anyone from lucas arts shed some light on this please?

Is there a way to mod the game so bots will act like they do in single player: they clearly are coming after you to take you out.

JSM
10-03-2003, 03:28 AM
ugh. jedi outcast was exactly the same, and god was it annoying. no matter what skill level you set the bots at, they would always just run around (usually backwards), swing if you came near and run some more. a better question to ask is why were the mp bots in elite force (another raven game) reasonably intelligent, yet in JO and JA they aren't? i would guess they assumed most people would just play mp against real people

-JSM

Prime
10-03-2003, 03:36 AM
There are many reasons why the MP game with bots is different than the SP game. A lot has to do with the fact that MP code has to take into account all sorts of issues that SP doesn't have, like lag.

But fear not. If you really like playing the SP game, you can set things up so you can bring up any of the SP villians (and allies for that matter) to fight (or fight with). Also, you can set your force powers to whatever you want.

To spawn an enemy, bring down the console (shift ~) and type:

npc spawn <npcname>

To set your force powers, you can use:

setforcespeed 3
setforcepull 2
setforcepush 3
...

Have a look the the pinned "Not enough custimization thread?" for lots of cool codes that allow you to do stuff like this. So basically, you can load any map (SP or MP) and fight against any NPC you want.

zdk1
10-03-2003, 03:43 AM
Bots in JO/JA use a waypoint system, meaning that bots follow predefined paths across the map with limited variation base on what it encounters. I agree, bots are pretty bad. Actually though, alot of games have bots that have a waypoint system (to the best of my knowledge), its just that the differences between bots and humans is much more pronounced in JO/JA because the player has a lot more options and mobility than a typical FPS. Training bots to utilize jump, speed, etc effectively would be pretty hard. In most other games, you'd only have to turn up accuracy and speed on bots with higher skill levels. As players improve in those FPS game, thats really all that they can improve in too (along with tactics which is why players will always be better than bots). However, in JO/JA, as players get better, the speed/rage strafe jump across the map, scoping and sniping in mid-air, land to deflty slice off an opponents head with the saber, and master a myriad of various force powers which are usually to numerous to fit effectively onto accesible position of the keyboard. Also, the slow bullet speeds for most guns make the heightened accuracy not so noticable as the shots can easily be dodged. There's more but i think i'll stop talking now.

JSM
10-03-2003, 03:58 AM
i'm with these guys, but i still understand the lament about sp AI being fairly advanced and mp being well, not. if i were you i'd download the ladder from JO (textures aren't fully refined for JA) its a fun level, sp AI is used instead of mp.

nabroc
10-03-2003, 07:11 AM
I've noticed the same and think some of the NPC's in single player are more fun to fight then bots in MP. OK, I know how to spawn NPC's & I know how to set my own force powers, but does anyone know how to define the forcepowers of the NPC's or at least how to turn force off in single player for some saber only duels (haven't seen this in the customization thread)?

rut-wa jodar
10-03-2003, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by Katt
When I play the single player campaign, and run into enemy jedi's, the battles are sometimes very cool and challenging. They are constantly aware of you and reacting to you. It feels a lot like I'm fighting someone online.

However, if I set up a "multiplayer" dueling server, and just duel against bots, the bot just runs around and I spend 1/2 the time chasing it around (it's just me versus one bot). Why can't the bots act like the single player jedi do? If I want to have good fights, I have to spend my time reloading moments in the single player campaigns .. but then I'm stuck with the state of my character (force powers and light sabre choice). Why can't they get the bots to act the same way in the dueling multi-player versions, since there's really no powerups to be had? No reason for the bots to be running around staring at me while running.. ? They should just be able to fight me and try taking me out like they do in single-player!

Anyone from lucas arts shed some light on this please?

Is there a way to mod the game so bots will act like they do in single player: they clearly are coming after you to take you out.

I have mentioned this a few times but in duel mode, saberlocks are extremely unbalanced when using bots. I have rarely won a saberlock against a bot. I often use force push but that only cancels a saberlock.

BTW ! Raven used 2 seperate coding teams to code SP & MP game. That is why SP & MP feel different, They did the same with JK2. If NPC`s are spawned in MP I find NPC animation choppy.

Buffy
10-03-2003, 11:03 AM
I was really disappointed for BOT ..
I was wishing to BOT geting more better then JK2..
but but but it geting more poor then JK2 .. npc is much better but need to set cheat mode so... ; (
Ravan dont know othere games bot things ???
like UT & UT2003 ? they GOD like Bot is sometimes better then human you know ? they never stuck any place in map too
I think JK2 & JA 's BOT is Poorest Bot in world :mad:

And npc's voice acting is so poor too JK2 is much better
usually new game is geting better then old one but Lucas art 's game is geting more poor ... ( of course not every things but..)
for BOT ? it really bad !:(

Katt
10-03-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Prime
There are many reasons why the MP game with bots is different than the SP game. A lot has to do with the fact that MP code has to take into account all sorts of issues that SP doesn't have, like lag. I would think they'd figure out that offering such a mode under "solo" menu in the multiplayer client would be a great idea.

But fear not. If you really like playing the SP game, you can set things up so you can bring up any of the SP villians (and allies for that matter) to fight (or fight with). Also, you can set your force powers to whatever you want.Ah, thank you very much for this info. I will definitely start trying this out. I take it when enemies die, I'd have to respawn them every time? Still, I'll check out every option I can using this method. Thanks!

Katt
10-03-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by zdk1
Bots in JO/JA use a waypoint system, meaning that bots follow predefined paths across the map with limited variation base on what it encounters.I don't see why they can't put the bot into "fight" mode (like single player) when it "decides" to fight you, and have it keep fighting you (ignoring the wandering path until the fight is over), or it "decides" to stop giving chase, at which time it goes back into "path" mode.

The difference between bots in sp and mp is drastic. Seems silly they didn't dig deeper to find a way to get that sort of behavior out of bots in multiplayer mode, even if, for example, they can only do so in multiplayer mode (dueling) that has only one 'human' in it.

Katt
10-03-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by JSM
i'm with these guys, but i still understand the lament about sp AI being fairly advanced and mp being well, not. if i were you i'd download the ladder from JO (textures aren't fully refined for JA) its a fun level, sp AI is used instead of mp. Ladder from JO? Where can I locate that? Appreciate any info. =)

Prime
10-03-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Katt
I would think they'd figure out that offering such a mode under "solo" menu in the multiplayer client would be a great idea.True. It probably was just going to be more work than they had money/time for. Who knows.

Originally posted by Katt
I take it when enemies die, I'd have to respawn them every time? Yes you do, but this can be made much simpler by binding keys to do it.

In a autoexec.cfg file (or just putting it manually in the console), I had something like:

bind F1 "npc spawn_reborn"
bind F2 "npc spawn tavion"
bind F3 "npc spawn stormtrooper"

or whatever. Then with just a press of a key, you can spawn more enemeis.

Originally posted by Katt
Ladder from JO? Where can I locate that? Appreciate any info. =) Try pcgamemods.com and check in the Jedi Outcast section. I'm sure they have must have it...

cbc72
10-03-2003, 05:00 PM
Bots, nice when online is lagging or a game is tough to find, but dumb as rocks.

Set up a duel in the generator room against Luke, you will start at the edge of the pit facing luke running at you from the hall way.

He will come charging at you, just jump over him and listen to the scream as he falls into the pit behind you. A win in about 5 seconds. Works about 50% of the time. Quite funny.

Ostra
10-04-2003, 12:49 AM
I dont know which map it is. One of the duel maps. has two narrow beams that sit over a giant pit. maybe its the generator room also.

You dont need to do much. Just manuever to the lower area with the bot still on the ledge. they will toss themselves into the pit all by themselves.

Actually almost all the "pit" maps ive seen the bots just randomly toss themselves in like sacrificial lambs.

LeopoldBloom
10-04-2003, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by nabroc
I've noticed the same and think some of the NPC's in single player are more fun to fight then bots in MP. OK, I know how to spawn NPC's & I know how to set my own force powers, but does anyone know how to define the forcepowers of the NPC's or at least how to turn force off in single player for some saber only duels (haven't seen this in the customization thread)?

I think g_saberrestrictforce (downt know if that's entirely correct, but it's something similar) could be the thing you're looking for, but I don't know for sure since I never tried this. Mess around a little with it, and tell us what happens. Might be that "0" means no force restriction when utilizing saber, and "1" = no force when saber on, or might be something absolutely different - I'm mainly just guessing ;) .

Scythefall
10-04-2003, 08:04 PM
The BOTs actually got worse in Academy. They have real pathing problems. You could learn to fight against bots in JO and then do reasonably well in Multiplayer. In Academy, I *thought* I was getting the hang of the staff until I went into a server and was getting cacked by people named "Padawan." LOL :) There were just alot of mechanics that the BOTs didn't seem to use. I wish JO_DarthMaul worked in JA because that was a bad ass bot.

The BOT pathing problems should be addressed by Raven, though. I think it's lame to see BOTs stuck on bridges and running around in small tight circle.s