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View Full Version : Was anyone else a tad disappointed with the amount of 'academy' in jedi academy?


Remirol Nacnud
10-04-2003, 08:07 PM
With a name like "Jedi Academy" and all of the ads making references to the academy side, I was expected a few more things in the academy.

As it was, you had the quick force lesson and then you were straight out there.

I was expecting something like:
A sabre training section. You might have a few masters show you how it's done, then you can fight them/other students for practice.
A puzzle section

Being able to walk around the academy and CHOOSE to go and learn some sabre techniques, or new force powers would have been great.

As it was, you might as well leave the whole academy thing.
I liked the gimic in JK:O where your force powers gradually increased, so introducing new players to them.
This is just the same, just with the word 'academy' thrown in.

Anyone else?

Pedro The Hutt
10-04-2003, 08:18 PM
Ofcourse, if more Yavin sections were thrown in players would complain about the scenery not changing often enough.

And discard the title and just enjoy the game ^.^

As shakespeare put it, what's in a name?

-=FB=-Jagged
10-04-2003, 11:38 PM
"Because we believe in learning by doing here at the Academy..."

--[I]Luke Skywalker[/]

the book I, Jedi had a lot about the academy in it, and they trained quite a bit there before heading out, however, im with pedro. the game falls short in other areas, without complaining about not spending time in what, i think, would be a rather boring academy.

XHZN
10-05-2003, 12:45 AM
I agree I was rather disappointed about the academy part. I think the game is great but what's the point of calling it Jedi Academy when there is very little actual training there. Basically the game makes you a "natural" while using the force but I doubt you'd truly be sent on missions so quickly. The lame part is there is more of the Academy in Outcast then JA. I expected training in the areas seen in JO. Maybe training duels with other Jedi. Force training starting with moving small rocks and building up to entities. The way it sounded it was going to be more of a jedi training experience but it was just another Star Wars game, KOTOR gave more of the experience in the star war universe i was hoping for. And I didn't expect anything from that game.

Katt
10-05-2003, 01:43 AM
I think by jedi academy, the whole story revolves around the fact that Luke is starting a new jedi academy to rebuild the jedi to their former glory. You are a new student. Rosh (sp?) is also a new student. The story revolves around this new academy, and the mishaps of its students.

But I can see how you'd expect to get more "training" in, given the name of the game. It would be nice indeed if they had training in using your saber (how to do combinations, and then when to use them to best effect; same goes for force powers). Perhaps a sequel will be made that has this as a major theme: becoming officially trained as a jedi in saber combat, force combat, how to perform moves, and when to use them to greatest effect.

Andy867
10-05-2003, 01:51 AM
Yea, I wouldn't say disappointed, just hoping that there would be an option to be able to return to the Academy and walk around and get some training in.

Pnut_Man
10-05-2003, 02:08 AM
Perhaps future mods can tamper with the original single player campaign and add a Jedi Academy that you can navigate through in between each mission ?

From the way Raven made it sound back last May, I thought you'd be able to hang around the Academy after completing/before doing missions and when you wanted to progress with more missions you'd just go up to either Kyle or Luke and hit 'Use' and your Mission selection screen would pop up.

Remirol Nacnud
10-05-2003, 11:15 AM
Don't get me wrong, I think this game is great.(although a tad short)

I like the role play that they've put into this game(making your own character, sabre. For my first character I made it to look like myself)
But a bit more of the roleplaying in game would be good. Going up to people in the academy, talking to them.
Perhaps a bit like the game of TPM. In that you could talk to bystanders and decide what sentances to say.

Oh well, perhaps in another game eh?

Dethsaint
10-05-2003, 12:45 PM
I might say I was a bit disappointed in the Academy part as well - but I didn't set my expectations too high after playing the demo ;)

What I think is odd though, is that you improve in your force powers without "learning" them in the Academy. I generally had the thought that a Jedi could only learn so much on his own without the guidance of a Master and then had to train with him to improve further. The reason Kyle improves his powers without any formal training in JO would mainly be due to his contact with the force-source in the Valley of the Jedi, altough he improved his skills rapidly in DF2:JK as well.

I think a couple of force duels and sabercombats between you and Kyle before the next set of missions would have been fun as well have relevance for the story - and you'd get the chance to kick Kyles butt no matter what side you chose follow :D

I think most of it is due to the limitations of the Q3 engine and the code behind it. I have yet to see a "roleplaying" game based on Q3 and I doubt we'll see one since it is designed to fast paced combat and not a roleplaying experience. Re-designing the entire structure behind the graphix to fit a rolplaying enviroment would take too much hard work if it possible at all :(

-=FB=-Jagged
10-06-2003, 01:03 AM
yeah im with dethsaint. some of you guys are looking at JA, which is a fps, and complaining about it not having an RPG setup. to do the trix you want, it would have to be redesigned.

the academy thing is a good idea, walikn around, talkin to luke about missions, duelin kyle, kickin the crap outta rosh b4 he -- uh does what he does in the game. (heh, dont wanna spoil it) :rolleyes:
but COME ON people! you report back to the academy between missions, there are a bunch of cutscenes there, so what if its not a playable level? it would get boring quick. (like that force starter level with kyle and rosh...good GOD!)

but yeah at first itd be alright. then youd be wishin you could skip it to get to some stormies. :D

StormHammer
10-06-2003, 01:35 AM
Yep, I was disappointed with it as well.

After being able to walk around at least part of the Academy in Jedi Outcast, and seeing students and trainers going at it - I fully expected an even more expansive and deeper experience at the Academy.

Instead we get a load of cut scenes. :confused:

How much trouble would it have been, really, to simply include the Academy levels from JO, if they didn't want to expand on it?

Elite Force II didn't suffer at all when you could return to the ship and walk around, or explore a bit of Starfleet Academy, and listen to both students and teachers there.

If anything, it added more depth to that game - and being able to walk around the Academy, and 'practice' your Force powers and saber skills between missions (as an option) would have been greatly appreciated here.

In addition, considering the title of the game, I would have expected a sub-plot around the Academy itself. For example, they could have introduced a Jedi Master with a bit of background, and had this character trying to entice students to the Dark Side. An infiltrator...

I've nearly finished the game again using the Dark Side...and some of the missions still feel like 'filler', and take about 10 or 15 minutes to complete. It just doesn't gel together - and the Academy could have been used in more inventive ways.

Sithxace
10-06-2003, 02:11 AM
maybe some more interaction and outside life, like be able to walk around in academy and while that u see life around u

Remirol Nacnud
10-06-2003, 01:53 PM
I don't know about EF2 but I played EF1 and enjoyed the walking around the ship in between missions.
It made it that little bit more involving.
You'd go to the briefing room, watch a cut scene of your orders, then go to different rooms to equip and finally to the transporter or hanger so that you could ship out.

Prime
10-06-2003, 03:02 PM
Personally, I wouldn't want to spend any more time at the Academy. Apart from maybe a level to practice dueling, I wouldn't want levels where I had to move rocks around. It is much more fun saving that galaxy :)

txa1265
10-06-2003, 05:38 PM
On the whole, I like Jedi Academy a bunch more than Elite Force II, but there are things that EFII did that I liked, and wished that JA had done:
- Basically, they seemed to assume that if you were playing a Star Trek game, you were a Star Trek fan. So they dropped in lots of little tidbits that were appealing to ST fans.
- They forced you to walk from place to place, but gave you plenty of info so you weren't walking around like an idiot unable to find the next place on your objectives.
- Choices of dialogue, which may not have made much of a difference, but made you feel in control of your character.
- Ability to explore the Enterprise in between missions - whenever you were needed on the Enterprise, YOU did the walking.

In contrast,
- Assumed that if you were playing a Star Wars game, you were a Star Wars fan. So they dropped in lots of little tidbits that were appealing to SW fans.
- Maybe they assumed you like movies more than games, but whatever the assumption, whenever you got to a 'Star Wars Interaction Moment', you were carried away to a cutscene.
- Dialogue is fixed and predetermined. Despite having free range to build a character that is fully Light, fully Dark, or somewhere in between, you will always say the same things, the same way. For instance, after one battle, Kyle (in a cutscene, of course) says he felt the anger swelling in you or something ... um, not me, I'm practically glowing with light aura, and was 'in the zone' during the battle ... Missed opportunity. Jaden Korr could have been MY character completely, but Raven kept him partly THEIR character.
- In JKII, when you go see Luke, you walk from your ship to meet him, and THEN the cutscene takes over. Why not in JA? I had been hoping that in JA, when you first leave the Academy to start training, you'd get walked through by your master, and that from there you'd land after each mission set, and have to walk up to the temple ceremonial room or whatever, along the way watching training and practice or whatever. I was also hoping that when you were able to choose new stances and between single/dual/staff, you would be able to try them out before advancing ... they could have used the same few rooms and added about 2 hours to the game (which is still ~2x longer than almost any other FPS currently out there). Again, another missed opportunity in my mind.

Just my thoughts ...

Mike

txa1265
10-06-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Personally, I wouldn't want to spend any more time at the Academy. Apart from maybe a level to practice dueling, I wouldn't want levels where I had to move rocks around. It is much more fun saving that galaxy :) I agree - again it is about being FORCED to do something vs. being ABLE to do it. Imagine when you chose a new stance having the option to choose it right away or 'practice in the saber training room' Maybe there would be switches for Fast or Strong, and you would battle training sabers against a non-human opponent.

Mike

-=FB=-Jagged
10-06-2003, 08:12 PM
meh, i guess i just wish that people would stop needling the game and just enjoy it, but now that yu mention it, the academy idea wouldnt be all that bad IF it were done right. some one should mod it in...:D

txa1265
10-06-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by -=FB=-Jagged
meh, i guess i just wish that people would stop needling the game and just enjoy it, but now that yu mention it, the academy idea wouldnt be all that bad IF it were done right. some one should mod it in...:D There's a difference between people who complain when things change OR when they stay the same, who were complaining about JA since May ... and pointing out either legitimate weaknesses or personal disappointments.

Me - I've made it quite well known that JKII was my favorite game ever. I have no doubt that JA will land in my top 5, I just need to let it settle in a bit before I decide. However, I see so much possibility in this game, so many glimpses of greatness, that I can't help being disappointed in those areas I see as being 'easy wins' to make it even greater.

Mike

StormHammer
10-07-2003, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by txa1265
Me - I've made it quite well known that JKII was my favorite game ever. I have no doubt that JA will land in my top 5, I just need to let it settle in a bit before I decide. However, I see so much possibility in this game, so many glimpses of greatness, that I can't help being disappointed in those areas I see as being 'easy wins' to make it even greater.

Mike

I share that sentiment. JA is a good game, and I enjoyed playing it - but in so many ways it hinted at greater things that never came to pass. The potential was there to make an exceptional game, but they didn't push the boundaries far enough, or probe deeply enough into the mantle of it's potential. To me, it really does feel unfinished, because I can see where so much more could have been done.

As it is, I'm having a lot of fun playing MP, and 'some' SP levels are worth reloading to play again...

Javva the Hutt
10-07-2003, 10:44 AM
Sounds to me like a lot of people are looking forward to KOTOR, with supposedly and highly interactive environment, I am too.

I have to agree though that 'most' of the levels were filler. To be in an Academy environment I would have expected more inital training, there was hardly any, and what there was you finished in five minutes. I don't know about you but if I was counting on someone defending the galaxy I would want them to have just a little bit more than five minutes of training.

Don't get me wrong I don't regret purchasing this game there are just some things I would have done differently - like...oh I don't know... a more connected storyline. Thats just me though.

N0V4
10-07-2003, 12:16 PM
Maybe if some people in high places would think a lil harder they would realize that making a game like 60 or 80 years after ROTJ you could put some interresting stuff in it.

I myself (if I had the choice) would make it around 300 years after so you WOULD have SOME freedom and than they could make a good RPG out of it.
I kinda understand them...i mean...books, comics, games.
Heck, they have to mind everything to make a good game.

Humm, imagine a game set to 300 years after ROTJ....statues of Luke, Mara, Ben, Leia, Jaina, Jaicen, Anakin etc being praised by Jedi.
That would be great to see.


Just my 2 cents

txa1265
10-07-2003, 01:03 PM
Possible interpretations of my previous posts to the contrary, I do not want JA to be a JK-based full-RPG. I do not want to sit (using the emote, of course) meditating in the Academy watching the sky change and day turn to night ... JA aspires to be RPG-lite, and I'd love to see that. You are supposed to be a Padawan who spends much time at the Jedi Academy, and I'd like to get to see some more of that.

Lite - character construction. [OK]
Full - choose characteristics such as strength, etc. Consistent with Race. For example, Kel Dor would have high strength, Rodian high dexterity, Zabrak high charisma, etc.

Lite - choose force powers [ok]
Full - full force power customization based on force alignment.

Lite - choose light of dark path [ok]
Full - path is decided by actions and aggregates over the course of the game. Some subtlety of choices is implied.

Lite - Experience is rewarded [nope]
Full - Experience points are gained as you progress, as are gold and items, and you gain levels and can buy better items.

I am not looking for a Full-on RPG in JA, I had just hoped for a better scoped RPG-lite implementation.

Mike

Prime
10-07-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by txa1265
I agree - again it is about being FORCED to do something vs. being ABLE to do it. Imagine when you chose a new stance having the option to choose it right away or 'practice in the saber training room' Maybe there would be switches for Fast or Strong, and you would battle training sabers against a non-human opponent.

Mike A level where you could practice moves would be cool, but I still wouldn't want the majority of the game to be at the Academy...

txa1265
10-07-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Prime
A level where you could practice moves would be cool, but I still wouldn't want the majority of the game to be at the Academy... I don't think that people are suggesting that the majority of the game be at the Academy, rather that when we are at the Academy you walk from ship to temple and it is not just a cutscene.

Mike

-=FB=-Jagged
10-07-2003, 04:18 PM
Mike, you realize that they would have to design a new engine for this JA-RPG you want, right? The QIII engine wasn't meant to do that. It's an FPS. (I know you've probably heard this all before, but it can't hurt one more time). :)

Redeveloping the engine would set the team back months, increasing costs, and also require more manpower and possibly higher paid people, also resulting in a jump in costs. Maybe it would have been worth it, you never know...

But I'm with you and Stormhammer. I feel now when I play the SP that something - no, a lot of things - are missing. Like I said before, our only hope now is for Obi-Wan Kenobi to swoop in with R2-D2 holding the plans for the Death Star in his rusty innards and -
wha...??? :confused:

Oh yeah...our only hope now is mods, I'm afraid. So someone get crackin'! :p

txa1265
10-07-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by -=FB=-Jagged
Mike, you realize that they would have to design a new engine for this JA-RPG you want, right? The QIII engine wasn't meant to do that. It's an FPS. (I know you've probably heard this all before, but it can't hurt one more time). :)
Actually, I like JKII & JA *BECAUSE* they are FPS. However, JA is being sold with a RPG-lite element ... my thoughts were just about doing that more fully within the Q3 experience. I will have KOTOR in ~6 weeks ... I don't need another SW-RPG. I would just have liked them to have finished the part about letting me build *my* Jedi. In JKII I was Kyle, I could accept *his* progression. Not so ... Jaden should be *me*, whether I choose to drain the life out of cowering Jawas or use mind trick to avoid killing rooms of Stormtroopers ...

Mike

-=FB=-Jagged
10-07-2003, 10:50 PM
yeah you got the LITE part right. but this is the first time that something of this magnitude has been attempted after a game like JO... a tough act to follow. so we have to wait and see, hope the developers are reading these as fast as we turn em out! :D

another thing that might have been cool: what if there had been a level where you travel to some spot (after the mission with kyle where you lose your saber and you have to rebuild one) to find the parts for your saber? finding different pieces builds different ones. luke could have holocron blueprints. find one you like and go get the parts. then come on back to the academy and put it together.

i dunno, just a thought.

Pedro The Hutt
10-07-2003, 11:09 PM
I figured that you'd have all the base parts at the ready inside the academy.

-=FB=-Jagged
10-08-2003, 12:49 AM
probably, but it would be an interesting concept, especially after such a traumatic experience.

kyle just lost a student, and while rosh was not jaden's friend, he was an ally. that stuff hurts. luke could have requested jaden head out to clear his head.

(ok, so traumatic is a little over the top...you get the point.) ;)

Andy867
10-08-2003, 03:19 AM
Well, actually Jaden wouldn't need Luke's help at all since Jaden had built his own lightsaber without any formal force training at all, apparently had never been done before.

Javva the Hutt
10-08-2003, 06:10 AM
Ok let me get this straight, txa1265 - mike, you would like a character creation aspect of a rpg game in fps environment. That would be interesting.

But rebuilding a lightsaber would definately be an interesting objective, of course thats assuming that LA knows how to build one. I know in the EU books its briefly discussed but would they use the EU as a reference? Could be cool though!

txa1265
10-08-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Javva the Hutt
Ok let me get this straight, txa1265 - mike, you would like a character creation aspect of a rpg game in fps environment. That would be interesting.
Not entirely. I don't want to be sitting in front of the screen looking at the level up page deciding whether to put that 1 pt remaining into Strength or Charisma or Dexterity ... for something like 15 minutes like I do with Neverwinter Nights ...

However, the game already has 6 preset character types or 'classes', and I was psyched when I thought that different classes were going to get different starting Stances. I would have been happy with that. I just would have liked some further fleshing out of what was already there - like force power selection, weapon and inventory selection, dialogue selection, more light/dark influence elements, and so on. Subtle things make a big difference.

Mike