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Oblivion Zeta
10-06-2003, 07:01 PM
A little while ago I posted a topic on the star wars rpg forums asking about how you would go about building a double lightsaber one thing that intriuged me was this:


However, there are some non-mechanical problems the character may face as well. Now, working on the assumption that the Jedi in question is of the light side, or at least is trying to be, the Jedi Order (or Jedi Council, depending on your campaign's time frame) will likely frown upon the character's construction of a "saber staff". The double-bladed lightsaber was originally a Sith weapon, and its roots are steeped in Sith tradition. The addition of the second blade really only serves to cause more pain, and falls in contrast to Master Odan Urr's instruction to use your lightsaber to end a conflict as quickly and as mercifully as possible.

If you're playing a dark side campaign, well, tell him to roast an Ewok for me, and use Jar Jar's body to fuel the barbeque!

FurionStormrage
10-06-2003, 07:23 PM
Not to be an ass or anything, but wouldn't cutting up your enemy twice as fast end the pain in half the time? :confused:

Tsaya
10-06-2003, 08:06 PM
I don't get your point. The second blade of a lightstaff does nothing the first blade can't do: severe bodyparts and burn flesh. There is no difference between the two blades but the fighting style. Both blades cause the same ammount of pain, have the same ability to kill, the same effect.

So much for the in-role version. The real reason is very simple: it looks cool. There is no need for a jedi to have a dual bladed lightsaber at all since he isn't fighting sith with it anyways (unless he's a poor fella in a game with lots of reborn-cannonfodder) but deflecting blaster shots, melting doors and impressing mortals. And a single bladed saber can do that just fine - but "just fine" does not result in selling a movie or game as well as "awesome".

FurionStormrage
10-06-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Tsaya
I don't get your point. The second blade of a lightstaff does nothing the first blade can't do: severe bodyparts and burn flesh. There is no difference between the two blades but the fighting style. Both blades cause the same ammount of pain, have the same ability to kill, the same effect.


True, and when I slice into you with the first blade I can continue the spin because it has severed whatever limb was blocking it and hit you again in half the time it would take me to end the swing draw the sabre back and hack at you again... Thus doing twice the damage in the same amount of time.

Kurgan
10-06-2003, 09:30 PM
There is no reason to assume that a saberstaff is a "Sith only" weapon.

Barring the EU, only one character that we know of ever used one and that's Darth Maul, who happened to be a Sith. Yet no characters comment and say "wow, he's using a Sith weapon, so that proves he's a Sith!"

Also, in the EU there is conflicting information. Of course GL got the idea of the saberstaff from the Exar Kun character, supposedly an ancient Sith Lord. But then in ANH Infinities the Royal Guardsmen use them and they're not Sith (maybe low level "Dark Jedi" but who knows).

In addition I've heard plenty of fans tell me ad naseum that the saberstaff is actually a "practice saber" that "all jedi students" are trained with early on, so in theory they would all know how to use them. Or are all Jedi students/teachers then necessarily dark siders or sith? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi.

It's not the weapon that matters, its who uses it.

Kurgan
10-06-2003, 09:41 PM
There is no reason to assume that a saberstaff is a "Sith only" weapon.

Barring the EU, only one character that we know of ever used one and that's Darth Maul, who happened to be a Sith. Yet no characters comment and say "wow, he's using a Sith weapon, so that proves he's a Sith!"

Also, in the EU there is conflicting information. Of course GL got the idea of the saberstaff from the Exar Kun character, supposedly an ancient Sith Lord. But then in ANH Infinities the Royal Guardsmen use them and they're not Sith (maybe low level "Dark Jedi" but who knows).

In addition I've heard plenty of fans tell me ad naseum that the saberstaff is actually a "practice saber" that "all jedi students" are trained with early on, so in theory they would all know how to use them. Or are all Jedi students/teachers then necessarily dark siders or sith? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi.

It's not the weapon that matters, its who uses it.


I guess in a way its sort of like a character using two pistols. More firepower, but much less accuracy. In real life he'd probably be better off simply using one until it ran out of ammo, then switching to the other (that's how the gunfighters in the old west did it, they didn't use two at once, despite what you see in movies).

FurionStormrage
10-06-2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
In addition I've heard plenty of fans tell me ad naseum that the saberstaff is actually a "practice saber" that "all jedi students" are trained with early on, so in theory they would all know how to use them. Or are all Jedi students/teachers then necessarily dark siders or sith? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


My understanding is that a staff is much harder to use and control than a single sabre or dual sabres and is only used by the most skilled Jedi (dark or otherwise). Many moves that can be accomplished safely with one sabre can easily maim or kill the staff wielder.

Originally posted by Kurgan
To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi.

It's not the weapon that matters, its who uses it.

Agreed.

cayqel
10-06-2003, 10:34 PM
To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi.

Exar Kun used two sabers to defeat his master while he was training as a light jedi. He shortly there after left and became a dark lord of the sith, but at the time he was a Jedi Padawan.

I think a much more important question would be, should a Light jedi be using lightening, or dark rage. Those are more directly tied to which side of the force he falls on, and obviously a light Jedi can. So I souldn't see a saber staff as much of a problem.

If you can use a rocket launcher or concussion riffle to blow someone to bits, why not a saber to chop them to bits?

Kurgan
10-06-2003, 10:42 PM
There is no reason to assume that a saberstaff is a "Sith only" weapon.

Barring the EU, only one character that we know of ever used one and that's Darth Maul, who happened to be a Sith. Yet no characters comment and say "wow, he's using a Sith weapon, so that proves he's a Sith!"

Also, in the EU there is conflicting information. Of course GL got the idea of the saberstaff from the Exar Kun character, supposedly an ancient Sith Lord. But then in ANH Infinities the Royal Guardsmen use them and they're not Sith (maybe low level "Dark Jedi" but who knows).

In addition I've heard plenty of fans tell me ad naseum that the saberstaff is actually a "practice saber" that "all jedi students" are trained with early on, so in theory they would all know how to use them. Or are all Jedi students/teachers then necessarily dark siders or sith? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi.

It's not the weapon that matters, its who uses it.


I guess in a way its sort of like a character using two pistols. More firepower, but much less accuracy. In real life he'd probably be better off simply using one until it ran out of ammo, then switching to the other (that's how the gunfighters in the old west did it, they didn't use two at once, despite what you see in movies).

nisk
10-07-2003, 02:47 AM
wat does UE mean?:confused: :confused: :confused:

nisk
10-07-2003, 02:48 AM
wat does EU mean?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Scythefall
10-07-2003, 03:01 AM
EU means Extended Universe which refers to anything that was not written by Lucas. That includes all novels and comic books.

Just depends on how deep your want your character's bio to be. In the Attack of the Clones handbooks, they talk about the various combat styles and Mace Windu for instance, is nearly Sith-like in his combat style(I think it Type VII). I think Obi-Wan was described as a more defensive fighter while Dooku was described as using a very ancient wrist-only saber technique.

With a lightsider using a double bladed saber, i'd go with this: Your character has a deep sense of destiny that some day he will do battle the Sith. Both the master and apprentice will be there. You've seen it in visions and the force has driven you to build this tool for the final battle.

That's just my thoughts on it.

Kurgan
10-07-2003, 09:12 AM
Some of the stuff that comes out of the EU you simply have to take with a grain of salt.

For example, did you know that Sith use synthetic crystals for their lightsabers? These are called "Sith crystals" that have dark side energy trapped in them and make the saber blade red.

As you know, Luke used synthetic crystals in his saber, so that makes him a Sith..... (oh wait!)

Since red is a sith color, and blue is a jedi color for saber blades, that means that a purple saber is partway between the Darkside and the Lightside, which makes Mace Windu part evil.... (hmmm, doh!).

Yoda has become so powerful in the force, he has outgrown the need for a Lightsaber. Oh wait, no he didn't....

Palpatine has no lightsaber. Then again, maybe he does...?

The Empire hates aliens and women, oh wait, nevermind, their highest ranking admirals are women and aliens. Or maybe they're not...

It goes on and on. ; p

obijonkenobi
10-07-2003, 12:37 PM
I love how they make up "in character" reasons for desisions made from a production viewpoint.

The purple saber was such because Samual L Jackson wanted a purple one.

Initially the ROTJ Saber Luke uses was blue, but they turned it to green as blue didnt show up too well against the desert backgrounds.

I bet you the reason they wen't blue/red for light/dark was that the colour combinations were pretty. It looks better then say both using the one colour.

As for red? I'd personally use a red blade even if I was a Jedi Knight with zero dark side tendancies. Why? Red simply is my favourite colour and looks the best (in my opinion of course). But then I'm vain like that.

Starfire13
10-07-2003, 12:52 PM
Personally, I find it difficult to believe all the Sith would use red sabers. I mean, I'm sure there are Sith who absolutely hate red.

Perhaps most Sith would choose red due to the symbolism, and because it looks menacing. But I'd think that there will be those who choose some other colour.

Darth_Pnut
10-07-2003, 01:26 PM
Stafire13,

One of the greatest Sith Lords, Exar Kun, used a saber staff, but in all the drawings or art of him I've seen both blades are blue. Perhaps it was before the time of the sythetic red crystals though?

D_P!

Starfire13
10-07-2003, 01:37 PM
Thanks for that info, Darth!

You know, if I was a Jedi and was constructing a lightsaber, I'd make a teal blade.

Oblivion Zeta
10-07-2003, 02:08 PM
I didn't write the part about lightstaff being evil. Somebody else did in a different forum and I wanted to see what you guys thought about it.

Prime
10-07-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Stafire13
Personally, I find it difficult to believe all the Sith would use red sabers. I mean, I'm sure there are Sith who absolutely hate red. Nope. All Sith like red. Any Sith that picked a different colour would be picked on mercilously...

AJL
10-07-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Oblivion Zeta
A little while ago I posted a topic on the star wars rpg forums asking about how you would go about building a double lightsaber one thing that intriuged me was this:

...The double-bladed lightsaber was originally a Sith weapon, and its roots are steeped in Sith tradition. The addition of the second blade really only serves to cause more pain...

Thats a little thing compared to the force stuff...

In movies jedis were not supposed to use force to attack at
all and they were not supposed to feel anger, hate, fear, ...
because they leads to the dark side...

But in this Lukes jedi academy they teach that there is no dark
powers but it is all about how you use them. Jedis are allowed
to feel hate and let it flow through them and they are allowed
to be consumed by rage and use the most powerfull ancient
sith power lightning...

If Yoda would be alive and he would walk in to this Lukes jedi
academy he wouldn't live too long... Because he would soon
realize that Palpatine didn't really fail in his goal to turn Luke
in to the Dark Side... It just happend slowly and insidiously
that even Luke him self haven't noticed it...

And this realization would give him heart attack (if he have it)

SideArm
10-07-2003, 03:17 PM
i dont think it matters with the colours, y are the x-wing lasers red and the ties green if they represent the diff sides of the force.

Tsaya
10-07-2003, 04:49 PM
@SideArm: Blaster colors got nothing to do with lightsaber colors. Completely different systems. Blasters ain't build by jedis and the Emperor didn't invent the lasers for his TIEs (he just kept using the "green stuff" from his homeworld Naboo as seen in EP 1)

JediLurker
10-07-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by AJL
Thats a little thing compared to the force stuff...

In movies jedis were not supposed to use force to attack at
all and they were not supposed to feel anger, hate, fear, ...
because they leads to the dark side...

But in this Lukes jedi academy they teach that there is no dark
powers but it is all about how you use them. Jedis are allowed
to feel hate and let it flow through them and they are allowed
to be consumed by rage and use the most powerfull ancient
sith power lightning...

If Yoda would be alive and he would walk in to this Lukes jedi
academy he wouldn't live too long... Because he would soon
realize that Palpatine didn't really fail in his goal to turn Luke
in to the Dark Side... It just happend slowly and insidiously
that even Luke him self haven't noticed it...

And this realization would give him heart attack (if he have it)

Not to read too much into it, but Yoda training Luke is a completely different set of circumstances than Luke training at the academy. For Yoda, Luke was it. There were no other Jedi, aside from Leia and fat chance of getting her away from the Rebellion long enough to actually train her. He had to make damn sure Luke didn't turn, so he gave him that fear\anger\hate speech IMO just to scare him straight. A little Light Side Insurance.

If you buy into all EU(Which I don't by a long shot), Plo Koon supposedly used lightning on a regular basis and he was on the Jedi Council. That being the case, Luke's view is more correct...it's not the power but the application of the power that makes it good or evil.

Darth Stryke
10-07-2003, 05:27 PM
Okay, according to the most recent interview question about this subject by George Lucas, the colors of the sabers and blasters mean nothing. He used to say good guys are green/blue and bad are red, but he changed his mind (partly because of Sam Jackson wanting purple) If you really consider it, Dooku (disregarding EU), was a jedi and has a red saber. No evidence from the films suggest that he had a different saber. So there is one example of this. So that leaves Vader and Maul-I do not take 2 individuals to mean that only bad guys use red. Originally, dooku was going to have a green saber as well (supposidly), but GL did not like the idea due to the fact that the ending fights in Ep2 were dark and that might get confusing to tell the people apart.

Oblivion Zeta
10-07-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by BoL_Stryke
Dooku (disregarding EU), was a jedi and has a red saber. No evidence from the films suggest that he had a different saber. [/B]

I know you said disregarding EU but in the novel(sorta) legacy of the jedi a young Dooku is seen with a saber that has a curved hilt and is green.

king yoda
10-07-2003, 05:48 PM
in the comic Jango Fett the hunt begann part 2 of 2
there you can see a young count dooku too with a group of other jedi“s, when they fight mandalorians and jango on galidraan.
there he has a blue saber.

Cmdr. Cracken
10-07-2003, 06:03 PM
Saber colors that Sith/Jedi use are symbolic, nothing more, methinks.

i mean, i don't think any of the councle would have/could say anything against a fellow Jedi Master picking red as the saber color. i mena, eh, so what? it's just breaking probably what is tradition, and really..... It's a Jedi Master. they'd probably watch the bloke more carefully, but other than that... i'd think it'd be legal.

now a PADAWAN picking red right off the bat is just looking for trouble... ^_^

so maybe color indicates tendancies in the force? like a sub-concious thing?
eh. oh well.

Kurgan
10-07-2003, 06:41 PM
The whole "blue and green are for good guys, red is for bad guys" quote from Lucas on the AOTC DVD is pretty much the first time anyone outside of Lucas's inner circle ever heard that most likely.

The EU authors covering the pre-film eras, the post film eras, and the prequel eras (even the TPM stories) assumed that other saber colors were possible.

They even had to retcon a story and throw in that Mace Windu's blue saber was actually one he borrowed from another Jedi (the story had him returning it).

This was because in Jedi Power Battles and an action figure they made of Mace, he had a blue saber (we never saw his saber ignited in TPM remember)?

"Yoda's saber" that everybody saw before AOTC was actually a fan-made model, which found itself onto a few sites (and possiby some semi-official sources). But AFAIK it didn't look anything like the hilt we actually saw him USE in AOTC. Some of the EU even assumed that Yoda didn't use lightsabers period (since we didn't see him use one in the original films).

I agree about the whole "looks pretty onscreen" thing. The same thing could be said about making the blaster shots different colors.

There's all kinds of in-universe explanations you can try to make up, few of them consistent. But the attempts continue...

Lucas's (paraphrased) explanation is that it's just like in the old serials... the good guys wear white, the bad guys wear black. But of course he's not always consistent with it either, especially in the prequels.


The new saber color policy by Lucas was the reason why Kyle suddenly had a blue saber in JK2, because single player was considered "official" enough in games that it had to follow Lucas's new rules (I guess) and why all the bad guys had red (though it made sense in story... because their sabers were clearly mass produced, probably in a single factory complex).

That is why I was a bit (pleasantly) surprised that in JA we could choose any color in SP (except red, without cheating... because that's considered a "bad guy color" by Lucas). The bad guys still use all red of course.

At least MP has no such restrictions!

killabilly
10-07-2003, 10:33 PM
I dunno where I heard this from, - probably from these same forums as well - someone said that the lightsaber turns red because it is infused by the anger of the dark force user who is wielding it... which is probably why Jaden's lightsaber turned red after gettin pissed off with Rosh on Taspir. :D


However going back to the original subject of this thread...

Yep I do think that the double bladed saber is more of a Sith weapon because:

- Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers, they resolve problems by using peaceful methods, such as mind trick and the likes, when skillful enough they rarely even have to put their lightsabers into action.

- Even if it comes down to the last resort that is violence, jedi are supposed to be defensive in battle, which is why they get all the absorb and protect and heal powers.

And the double bladed lightsaber is designed for ultimate combat, and that is combat only. It is used to gain advantage over the opponent by putting fear in him... or something like that, so its not very jedi-like in my opinion because of all its advanced battle elements. :cool:

Fractal-Coffee
10-08-2003, 03:30 AM
Vaguely on topic, if I were to make a lightsabre, I'd probably go for a staff. Aside from the fact it looks cool, I already know how to use a staff reasonably well, and I'd just have to change my style ever so slightly so it never touches me.


And it'd make it blacklight.

Ph33r Darth NightFever.

FurionStormrage
10-08-2003, 04:22 AM
IIRC, the purest lightsabre crystals are green. Impurities or additives to the crystals give the sabre its colour. Whether or not the red occurs because of the "dark side" I don't know about that.

According to what I read, when using the purest crystals for constructing a lightsabre, the resultant sabre is of unsurpassed potency. Why most Jedi (dark or otherwise) would even bother adding impurities to make another colour thereby reducing its potency... :confused:

Kurgan
10-08-2003, 04:45 AM
According to the SW (canon) ROTJ Radio Drama, Luke didn't have the highest recommended crystals to use when he constructed his green lightsaber.

So maybe green isn't the "purest" version available?

And why would Mace Windu, a prominent member of the Jedi Council and Jedi Master have a crappy (by that interpretation) purple saber?

And the other thing is, what is this "potency" you speak of? Is a red saber anyless able to cut through a surface than a green or blue one?

One theory about turbolaser color that got batted around a bit was that the color determined the "efficiency" based on power usage of the bolt. The Empire used green (in the classic trilogy) so it was assumed this was a newer or more expensive version of the technology that the Empire had access to but the Rebels didn't. Hand weapons were red because they didn't need that extra efficiency and used cheaper components.

It was probably assumed that lightsabers and blasters worked on a similar principle and thus the colors might mean something similar.

Of course the "in-universe" EU explanations for how things work don't match up.

Tell me if I get this right:

Supposedly an explosive gas (tibanna) is encased in some kind of force field "bottle" and "fired" out of the gun. The bottle ruptures and the gas expels its explosive energy to the target on impact.

Lightsabers use a "focusing crystal" or some other such crystal-like object and a powercell. Somehow it expends energy (but never seems to run out, some kind of super conductor) and zings it through the crystal to produce a continuous blade that acts like a solid that "heats" its way through things and has to be pushed.


Of course the blaster color theory above (the one about red vs. green) theory flies in the face of the prequels, where we have brand new super powerful "blue" shots (from the Clone Trooper heavy rifles) and blue beams from certain tanks (vs. the green beams of the LAATs) and we have green hand weapons (that don't seem particularly more powerful) like Amidala's blaster. Plus there's also purple turbo lasers (Dooku's escorts near the end of AOTC).

Yep I do think that the double bladed saber is more of a Sith weapon because:

- Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers, they resolve problems by using peaceful methods, such as mind trick and the likes, when skillful enough they rarely even have to put their lightsabers into action.

Police carry all manner of violent equipment for law enforcement: guns, hand cuffs, billy clubs, riot shields, body and vehicle armor, gas masks, tear gas, tazers, rubber bullets, fully automatic weapons, etc.

The tools of the trade are supposed to be EQUAL or GREATER than what criminals might carry. Thus Jedi would logically be armed to meet the threat of the scum they are dealing with. Diplomacy shouldn't require any weapons at all. That's why they have the Senate guard and stuff like that.


- Even if it comes down to the last resort that is violence, jedi are supposed to be defensive in battle, which is why they get all the absorb and protect and heal powers.

Its often been said that a good defense is a strong offense. Disable or kill your enemy and he won't be doing anymore harm to you or to others. The Jedi are quite lethal in battle as they've shown numerous times. In the games they have "powers" but int he films they aren't restricted that way necessarily. Remember that Luke choked those two Gammoreans who were threatening him at Jabba's palace in ROTJ. Qui Gon Jinn backhanded Darth Maul in the face in TPM. Luke pulled away a guards blaster in ROTJ and tried to shoot Jabba with it (he failed of course). Anakin used the force to toss debris at Geonosian warriors who were attacking him in the droid factory in AOTC. etc.


And the double bladed lightsaber is designed for ultimate combat, and that is combat only.

And a regular lightsaber isn't?

It is used to gain advantage over the opponent by putting fear in him... or something like that, so its not very jedi-like in my opinion because of all its advanced battle elements.

Lightsabers inspire fear (as we saw them scare the battle droids that Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon first encountered on the Trade Federation ship in TPM). So how is this any different?

It's like drawing a gun. A SHOW of force. Not exactly peaceful and diplomatic is it?

Not flaming you, just disagreeing with your opinion. ; )

killabilly
10-08-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Not flaming you, just disagreeing with your opinion. ; )
Its okay, thats what a good arguments all about isnt it? ;)

But its just that for a jedi, a real challenge in a battle is another jedi, as there is really nothing else in the galaxy that could match up to their skills and reflexes(except if you're talking about something like a rancor ;) which is more effective by countering with guns anyway...) So maybe excessive lightsaber styles arent really unnessesary for fighting the usual grunts, especially in its time of peace (eg. in JA with the empire disappearing and the development of the New Republic well on the way)

So the lightstaff in my opinion is slightly over the top for a goodie jedi, unless you're expecting battles with loads of sith. I guess its made for the people who get angry and like to fight a lot (not sure if the jedi are like that... well the ones being drawn to the dark side neway...)

Plus I read something in the game's Readme saying that most jedi use the single blade, it is in a very rare pratice for them use dual sabers, and even rarer still is the double bladed saber - because of the resources required to build one, plus most jedi generally talk peace anyway.
But near the end of the game, most - like half- of the light jedi i run into wield the staff, which contradicts what the game's own Readme said.

Valin
10-08-2003, 03:42 PM
this is my opinion - based off of what ive read, seen, and heard.

Color for Jedi means nothing. in KotOR, they tried to take it that color represented your "role" in the Jedi (Consulars, Guardians, Sentinels). the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook (for the SW RPG) states that lightsaber color is denoted by crystal, which is based of the jedi who used the crystal.

ive always taken color to mean the rarity of a crystal. Blue being most common, then Green, then yellow, then Purple (being most rare). crystals that are used for Lightsabers were once plentiful but now have become rather in short supply - which is why the more interesting saber colors are around more in the older periods of time (like the Sith War and such).

im sure Red Crystals occur naturally in nature - but are rare like the Purple crystals.

secondly - i remember when saber color was denoted by the dial thingy on a LS hilt - and that the main charcters chose the colors they did so as not to confuse one another.
which is dumb.

i favor the Sith Synthetic Crystal idea - it makes more sense to me.

Kurgan
10-08-2003, 05:55 PM
But its just that for a jedi, a real challenge in a battle is another jedi, as there is really nothing else in the galaxy that could match up to their skills and reflexes(except if you're talking about something like a rancor which is more effective by countering with guns anyway...)

Totally disagree with you there. ; )

We know from the movies (and from playing Jedi Outcast) that thsi simply isn't so. Sufficient firepower by non Force user/Non saber users can be effective against Jedi.

Remember Galak Fyarr? He did pretty well considering he was a mere mortal in a cortosis-plated combat mech.

Remember how many Jedi died on Genosis? The held their own, but took heavy casualties from waves of battle droids with blasters and Geonosians with sonic weapons. They couldn't block everything and perhaps not being used to fighting in groups, simply got in each others way more often than not...

And I'm not even getting into the (mostly BS IMHO) stuff from the EU about force negating ysalimaris, Yuzang Vohn who are magically "immune" to the Force and stuff like that.



So maybe excessive lightsaber styles arent really unnessesary for fighting the usual grunts, especially in its time of peace (eg. in JA with the empire disappearing and the development of the New Republic well on the way)


Again, in the EU ever two weeks you have a new Imperial warlord, Dark Jedi, superweapon or alien invasion to threaten the entire galaxy, so they've actually been quite busy since the Empire fell...


So the lightstaff in my opinion is slightly over the top for a goodie jedi, unless you're expecting battles with loads of sith. I guess its made for the people who get angry and like to fight a lot (not sure if the jedi are like that... well the ones being drawn to the dark side neway...)

Actually I think if Star Wars were more "realistic" Jedi would use armor, and a variety of weapons, not just the lightsaber.

The lightsaber may be their signature weapon, but with the Force, their skill in the use of ANY weapon would theoretically be an order of magnitude higher than the greatest people skilled with them who lacked the Force.

We also know that Jedi are far from immortal (the prequels) and perhaps supremely overconfident. With better equipment (and considering their numbers, they should be vastly concerned with minimizing their casualties) they would be better off and could do their jobs better.

It's like martial arts. You may have a supreme blackbelt master in a bunch of styles that can beat up any unarmed thug you throw at him, but forming an army of martial artists with nothing but their fists or a pair of nunchuk's each isn't going to win you many battles (unless your opponents all consist of unarmed thugs).


Plus I read something in the game's Readme saying that most jedi use the single blade, it is in a very rare pratice for them use dual sabers, and even rarer still is the double bladed saber - because of the resources required to build one, plus most jedi generally talk peace anyway.

Its rare sure, but that's just due to the writers, they haven't given any logical reasons why it would be rare, other than tradition.

And traditions change, as we saw with the EU vs. the Prequels.

What "resources" are we talking about here? The Republic funds the Jedi Order (as far as we can tell) and since its a peacekeeping force, they get whatever they think is necessary to keep the peace.

So that would include whatever equipment they need to build lightsabers, and if the EU is to be believed then these "Practice sabers" are everywhere.

In fact, all you would really need to do to build a saberstaff is take two lightsabers and weld the handles together. Done! What's so hard about that?


But near the end of the game, most - like half- of the light jedi i run into wield the staff, which contradicts what the game's own Readme said.

Well it said Jedi right? It didn't say DARK JEDI or SITH did it? Maybe the readme author wanted you to be surprised? ; )

You got me there, but you get the idea.

Kurgan
10-08-2003, 06:00 PM
this is my opinion - based off of what ive read, seen, and heard.

Color for Jedi means nothing. in KotOR, they tried to take it that color represented your "role" in the Jedi (Consulars, Guardians, Sentinels). the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook (for the SW RPG) states that lightsaber color is denoted by crystal, which is based of the jedi who used the crystal.

I concur. Lucas's use of symbolism isn't an in-universe explanation either (as I think I mentioned at least implied).


ive always taken color to mean the rarity of a crystal. Blue being most common, then Green, then yellow, then Purple (being most rare). crystals that are used for Lightsabers were once plentiful but now have become rather in short supply - which is why the more interesting saber colors are around more in the older periods of time (like the Sith War and such).

Could be, although that doesn't explain why the odd colors suddenly crop up again in the Post-Empire period.

I thought that maybe Coruscant has a lot of blue and green crystals (or the method for making sabers with those colors is more popular there) and that explains why the principles usually use those colors (Mace Windu being the exception, and for all we know he got his saber from off world).


im sure Red Crystals occur naturally in nature - but are rare like the Purple crystals.

That's the thing, we're assuming these crystals are naturally occuring, but we also know (in real life) that crystals can be synthesized. In fact, it seems that Luke did this when he built his green saber (at least according to one version of the story).


secondly - i remember when saber color was denoted by the dial thingy on a LS hilt - and that the main charcters chose the colors they did so as not to confuse one another.
which is dumb.

That's a great explanation, I like it! lol


i favor the Sith Synthetic Crystal idea - it makes more sense to me.

So "synthetic = red"? But then how does that explain Luke's "synthetic" green saber?

And why would only Sith choose to use synthetic crystals anyway (painting the Jedi Order as being "one with the land" bunch of nature boys and the Sith being "unnatural" freaks who use technology??)?

Stormtrooper X
10-08-2003, 06:17 PM
Sith use red sith synethetic crystals that when powered by the energies of the dark side, the lightsaber blade is stronger, and can occasionally break the blade. (AS demonstrated by Vader in ANH)

The saber staff is not a "sith weapon". The only reason Maul used it in EP1 was because it would be more powerful and he had spent years training with it. Jedi only used single blades normally because they don't escpect to find a sabre weilding enemy and is therefore inappropriate.

Valin
10-08-2003, 08:27 PM
i never heard that Lukes Green crystal was synthetic - someone told me that Obi-Wan found a few crystals in some tatooine cave...

cayqel
10-08-2003, 11:24 PM
Sith use red sith synethetic crystals that when powered by the energies of the dark side, the lightsaber blade is stronger, and can occasionally break the blade. (AS demonstrated by Vader in ANH)

Admittadly it's been a while since I watch ANH, but when exactly does this happen?

Flashblade
10-08-2003, 11:43 PM
Since the only saber fight in ANH is Ben vs Vader he can only mean this one however he remembers this wrong since Ben purposely let Vaders saber pass when he moves his saber out of the defense position. And he can't back up what he told anyway since this information doesn't exist!

Scythefall
10-09-2003, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by Stormtrooper X
Sith use red sith synethetic crystals that when powered by the energies of the dark side, the lightsaber blade is stronger, and can occasionally break the blade. (AS demonstrated by Vader in ANH)

The saber staff is not a "sith weapon". The only reason Maul used it in EP1 was because it would be more powerful and he had spent years training with it. Jedi only used single blades normally because they don't escpect to find a sabre weilding enemy and is therefore inappropriate.

Well, Maul is the most powerfully trained Sith fighter in history according to Lucas' account. No doubt the Saber staff was his choice because he didn't intend to be set back by the number of jedi he was facing. He developed a style to fight on all sides of him and not be daunted by multiple opponents. He held his own against two jedi with little problem.

FurionStormrage
10-09-2003, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by Scythefall
He held his own against two jedi with little problem.

Except for that little part at the end when he got cut in two by a single Jedi, sorry Padawan. :D "Ooo, that's GOTTA hurt!"

Kurgan
10-09-2003, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by Scythefall
Well, Maul is the most powerfully trained Sith fighter in history according to Lucas' account. No doubt the Saber staff was his choice because he didn't intend to be set back by the number of jedi he was facing. He developed a style to fight on all sides of him and not be daunted by multiple opponents. He held his own against two jedi with little problem.

Totally contradicted by the EU, but if George said it, that settles it.
; )


Sith use red sith synethetic crystals that when powered by the energies of the dark side, the lightsaber blade is stronger, and can occasionally break the blade. (AS demonstrated by Vader in ANH)

Like I said, that's an EU yarn that's not supported by the movies. I agree, that last part is nowhere in the movies.

If red crystals produce red blades and are thus "powered by the dark side" why did Adi Gallia get a red blade in Jedi Power battles?

Granted, this was contradicted by AOTC (which settled it that all of the Jedi use blue or green and Mace uses purple).

If Maul were such a bada$$ and he had Palpatine (a powerful man, surely with some money stored away) financing him, surely he wouldn't have settled for a low quality weapon would he? He obviously was well funded, since he had a special ship (Sith "Infiltrator" with a cloaking device, according to the TPM Incredible Cross Sections) and a bunch of probe droids.

The fact that his saberstaff still worked after Obi-Wan cut it in half is a testament to its design quality!


The saber staff is not a "sith weapon". The only reason Maul used it in EP1 was because it would be more powerful and he had spent years training with it. Jedi only used single blades normally because they don't escpect to find a sabre weilding enemy and is therefore inappropriate.

Perhaps, although Anakin did pretty well with two sabers at once. And what about the EU yarn that saberstaffs are "padawan practice weapons"?

Valin
10-09-2003, 07:23 AM
i heard that the only Two Bladed Lightsaber (Saberstaff, etc) in history, was Exar Kun's blade. Maul copied the idea, but lengthened the blades considerably and developed his own style with it.

other Jedi have stumbled upon the idea, and surely, the plans can be found in certain Sith Holocrons - but it is beleived to go against the teachings of Odan-Urr, and the fact that it was created by a Dark Lord...

go figure.

idontlikegeorge
10-09-2003, 08:27 AM
Personally, I think if a Jedi wants to put his energies into learning and using a saberstaff, they should be able to "knock themselves out." I felt in Academy, that there was an overuse of dual sabers and saberstaves - but that's kind of expected, as those were the new toys of the game.

Also, my "pure" lightside Jaden version, a Twi'lek female, used the saberstaff. I also had a "moderate" human male Jaden, with a single saber; and my dark side Jaden was a human female with duals. :naughty:


"Perhaps, although Anakin did pretty well with two sabers at once. And what about the EU yarn that saberstaffs are "padawan practice weapons"?"

Maybe the trainer uses the staff, instead of the student(s)?

Obi-Wan mentions Anakin's potential for saber fighting in AotC. And, sure, Anakin didn't cut any of his toes or fingers off using two blades, but he didn't win the duel either. :p

Tsaya
10-09-2003, 09:30 AM
And, sure, Anakin didn't cut any of his toes or fingers off using two blades

Well, why should he? After all that was Dooku's job :D

idontlikegeorge
10-09-2003, 09:42 AM
Exactly my point!

DarthMauled
10-09-2003, 12:04 PM
This is what Star Wars.com (http://www.starwars.com/databank/technology/sithlightsaber/?id=eu) has to say about it. So A jedi can use a doublebladed lightsaber as they use it in training.:lsduel:

Dethsaint
10-09-2003, 03:44 PM
Please note this in the above link:

In the past, the double-ended lightsaber was reserved only for training purposes.

This doesn't mean it is forbidden for good Jedi to use doublebladed sabers as means of "hostile negotiation" - it simply states that it is just highly unusual for them to do so. :cool:

Fractal-Coffee
10-09-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
I felt in Academy, that there was an overuse of dual sabers and saberstaves - but that's kind of expected, as those were the new toys of the game

That's why I played with the .npc files. Now all the jedi use single blades. All the reborn use single blades, except the staff ones, which I figured I'd leave in for variety, and the rebornmaster (dual and staff) guys.

No more legion of staff/dual wielding badguys! Now they're special encounters :)

Bump up hitpoints across the board and it makes things more fun. In my opinion, anyway.


Back on topic-ish, would the majority of Jedi even know there was such a thing as a double-bladed lightsabre? I mean, I'd never even thought of one until Kun, and then I figured "hey, that'd be a good idea, as long as you don't, y'know, touch yourself with it."

But would any other classically trained Jedi even think having a sabre-staff would be a possibility? If we go with the movies and ignore all the EU stuff, we've seen an entire one staff. Which makes it rare to the point of extinction (now that Maul's dead). And from what I've learned of people in general, if it's extinct, and went extinct before they knew about it, they usually never know about it.


Just a thought, really.

idontlikegeorge
10-09-2003, 09:32 PM
Yeah, I was planning on tweaking some of the NPC files as well.

As far as Jedi even knowing about a lightstaff, it wouldn't be too big of a deal. I mean, Exar Kun just basically thought of the idea out of need to be deadlier in personal combat, and it isn't really that massive of a mental leap to envision a saber with a blade sticking out both ends of the hilt. Of course using it without personal damage is another story.

So, the lightstaff would probably just be "reinvented" in any case. And, although your argument disregarded the EU, since the set of JA is in EU, and they learned about Exar Kun when they investigated his Massassi temple, which I assume was set prior to JA.

But in any case, I will hold my opinion that in the era of the new Jedi, since it hasn't been set in traditions, and the members are more individualistic - if one was inclined to train and use a saberstaff, they would be allowed to.

Vanor
10-09-2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
But in any case, I will hold my opinion that in the era of the new Jedi, since it hasn't been set in traditions, and the members are more individualistic - if one was inclined to train and use a saberstaff, they would be allowed to.

For what it's worth. In the SW RPG or one of the source books, it talks about how at Lukes jedi academy they don't hold with many of the old Jedi Orders traditions, and that the New Republic era jedi are allowed to do things they could never do in the Old Republic.

Like getting married and such. It didn't list what exactly all he changed, just that many of the old traditions no longer were followed.

cayqel
10-09-2003, 10:02 PM
would the majority of Jedi even know there was such a thing as a double-bladed lightsabre? I mean, I'd never even thought of one until Kun,

Personally I thought of the idea back when I was like 8 or so, and always wondered my they hadn't done it. When I saw Kun, I was like "Finally!" It's not like it's too hard to for some Jedi think, "hey, maybe I could duct tape a couple sabers together to see what happens."

If we go with the movies and ignore all the EU stuff, we've seen an entire one staff. Which makes it rare to the point of extinction (now that Maul's dead).

Yeah, but under that logic, up until TMP came out the saberstaff never existed as we never saw in in the original trilogy. However since TPM predates the OT, then it would have existed in the SW universe even though we had yet to see one in the OT. Thus, if GL gets some crazy idea to make a pre-prequil trilogy, then he could saberstaff pre-date Maul. Even without that we still have E3 to reveal more Jedi fun. (Underthat logic, Vader isn't Lukes father in ANH becuase we don't know he is until Empire)

Starfire13
10-09-2003, 11:16 PM
Yeah, my brother and I wrote a short story when we were about 9, about a fleet of cats who fly around the galaxay exterminating dogs (you can tell we were cat-lovers, can't you? :p )

Anyway, we developed this weapon which we called a "light-staff", which is a long staff-like weapon which has no hilt. The whole blade is plasma energy contained in a polarised magnetic field. The wielder wore special gloves which allowed him to hold it. Anything else it touched would be cut in two.

So, when we saw Episode I, we went, "Hey, George used our idea!!"

What was freaky was that the star-fighters we designed were called "Starfurys", which later appeared in Babylon 5. Hehe.

Fractal-Coffee
10-10-2003, 10:55 PM
And I thought I was weird.

Kurgan
10-11-2003, 02:28 AM
Maybe the trainer uses the staff, instead of the student(s)?

But that would still imply that somebody had to train the trainer in how to use the staff, so that implies that at least some Jedi know how to use one in a (mock) battle, with sufficient skill so as not to kill the trainee (after all, practice dueling would be quite dangerous, and we know they let little kids use fully functional lightsabers from AOTC!).


As to a saberstaff being unknown to the Jedi, that's like having somebody know about single barreled guns, but never having heard of or tried to develope a double barreled gun.

Besides, I find it hard to believe that in 1,000 years no Jedi every went "hmmm, I could weld two of these together and twirl it in my hands..."

Oblivion Zeta
10-11-2003, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
with sufficient skill so as not to kill the trainee (after all, practice dueling would be quite dangerous, and we know they let little kids use fully functional lightsabers from AOTC!).


No in mock battles they use training sabers which can be set to a certain level which sets how much it stings. And I assume the kids were using training sabers too.

Scythefall
10-11-2003, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by FurionStormrage
Except for that little part at the end when he got cut in two by a single Jedi, sorry Padawan. :D "Ooo, that's GOTTA hurt!"

Yeah, well..there is the suspension of disbelief thing. Maul had to die because that was in the story. It's just that I can't believe that Maul would just stand there while Obi-Wan propels himself out of a 15 foot pit, does a flip over Maul's head, and lands...THEN he cuts. It didn't fit at all with the fighting ability we had seen from Maul for the entire fight. I would have been more accepting if Obi-Wan had overpowered Maul with sheer determination. As it was, I don't see one reason why Maul wouldn't have just slashed and rolled as Obi came out of the pit.

As far as the lightstaff origins go..it's hardly important. Sidious made sure Maul was steeped in Sith tradition and knowledge and no doubt the name Exar Kun came up as well as information about the lightstaff he used. Unless they make yet another Prequel to the prequels, I don't think the movies will shed light. I would like to see another staff user in the movies though.

Kurgan
10-11-2003, 12:47 PM
No in mock battles they use training sabers which can be set to a certain level which sets how much it stings. And I assume the kids were using training sabers too.

Student: wtf I h1t U 9999 times ^& U nevAr d1e!! omg n3rf3d bs??!!111

Master: j00 R a L4m3r 1t 1s h0n0rŽb3. (lol pwn3d, what a n00b!)

Astrotoy7
10-11-2003, 01:09 PM
KURGAN ! You ARE the man !
But then in ANH Infinities the Royal Guardsmen use them and they're not Sith etc etc

I thought you were just a crazy fps gamer who gets off on pings and booting flamers off the forum - who would've thought you were EU guru ! You gotta be into EU if you know and quote 'Infinities' facts... !!! I wouldn't even dare do that, and I'm a sucker for EU!!

But yes, EU has to be taken with a grain of salt... Its just becomes so hard, there is sooo much SW stuff out there that making a decision about 'canon or not' is a huge one. This is why I love NJO so much, because over the 19 book story arc it has incorporated so much EU from diverse sources, even our man kyle....

Speaking of obscure quotes, I remember reading 'Darth Maul's Journal' which was a kids book which got released during the TPM deluge... It was written in first person perspective by maul(and finished by sidious after maul got sliced)...Its actually quite cool, as Maul talks about his childhood and adolescence training w Sidious. In it Maul wrote that he chose the saberstaff as his weapon due to his admiration of an 'sith master from long ago'....

Yes, GL openly mentions the saberstaff, this is somewhere in the TPM DVD special features. It was in the TPM script from the start, and it was ''an idea that has been done before''

great thread !

MTFBWYA

Oblivion Zeta
10-11-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Student: wtf I h1t U 9999 times ^& U nevAr d1e!! omg n3rf3d bs??!!111

Master: j00 R a L4m3r 1t 1s h0n0rŽb3. (lol pwn3d, what a n00b!)


You are so quoted.

Luc Solar
10-11-2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
I remember reading 'Darth Maul's Journal' which was a kids book which got....

Darth Maul kept a diary!? LOL! .. that's just ...not right. That's like "Poems by Mike Tyson" - it shouldn't exist. :D

Astrotoy7
10-12-2003, 12:46 PM
Luc Solar stated -
Darth Maul kept a diary!? LOL! .. that's just ...not right. That's like "Poems by Mike Tyson" - it shouldn't exist


HAHAHAHA !!!!! Well, actually Mike Tyson did say he was going to eat Evander Holyfield's children, not unlike the big bad wolf in the fairy tales of old........ :P

MTFBWYA

obijonkenobi
10-14-2003, 05:59 AM
I have a theory about the different sabre colours. I'm sure I'm not the only one that realises the Jedi are very similar to the samurai of Japan right?

The Lightsabre is very close to the Katana in many aspects. Now with Katana, they were works of art. The best smiths made their blades to look absolutely gorgeous. Their hilts especially - but even their blades had a wavy kind of design on them (the design of this pattern differed on the smiths). And the handles were quite decorative too.

What’s to say that the Jedi didn't make their sabres to be decorative too? Their hilt is personally customised and designed aesthetically after all. Why can't the colour chosen just be a further extension of their "personalised" weapon?

The reason you see so many blue or green sabres could just be they were simply the most popular colour by far as lets face it - they look quite delicious. Mace might just have a penchant for purple - and on a side note: Sam L Jacko chose purple because he had a penchant for purple too. So that fits in that the Jedi chose the colour based on their aesthetic choices, not "mechanical" reasoning or something else.

Of course its just a theory.

numark79
10-15-2003, 01:07 AM
From what I've heard, lightsabers used to come in all kinds of different colors during the Old Republic, green, yellow, orange, blue, etc etc. However, somewhere between there and Episode I a huge catastrophe took place (possibly the razing of Ossus, see the comic, Knights of the Old Republic-The Sith War) that made it virtually impossible for Jedi to find crystals other than blue and green, which were the most commonly found crystals.

As for the double bladed lightsabers, the Dark Side Sourcebook states that while some light Jedi have constructed some as experiments, "The Jedi Council dissapproves of such experiments, though, noting that the only reason to carry such a weapon is to kill more effectively." Fortunately for us, this probably means nothing to Luke, or the programmers at LucasArts, heheh :D

payce

Butt_Whisper
10-15-2003, 06:58 AM
Could sabre blades be the color black??

AJL
10-15-2003, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by Butt_Whisper
Could sabre blades be the color black??

No... And black is not color..

Prime
10-15-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by AJL
No... And black is not color.. ...but rather the absense of colour...

Butt_Whisper
10-15-2003, 05:23 PM
In my crayon box, next to my Star Wars lunchbox, there is a black crayon: so, i beg to differ, black IS a color!!
And lets not start a flame war over something as lame as the definition of a color

Tsaya
10-15-2003, 09:24 PM
Butt_Whisper wrote:
In my crayon box, next to my Star Wars lunchbox, there is a black crayon: so, i beg to differ, black IS a color!!

I'm afraid you don't get the point: colors mean light of different frequencies. White is what you get when you combine all colors of light while black is the pure absence of all light. So you can never ever have such a thing as black light.
And since it is called a Lightsaber you won't find one in black.


obijonkenobi wrote:
I'm sure I'm not the only one that realises the Jedi are very similar to the samurai of Japan right?
There are always many Jedi per master? Jedi take their life before they are forced to live without honor? Jedi wield a smaller Light-tanto if they aren't using their Light-Katana?

Sorry, but I really don't see where jedi are like samurai - besides the usual Katana-hype that is...

idontlikegeorge
10-15-2003, 09:31 PM
Actually, black is the closest to true color.

Whenever we call something yellow, the yellow object in fact, absorbs every color in the spectrum but yellow - we see the yellow color of the spectrum reflect from the object. So, a yellow object is technically every color but yellow.

Whereas a black object, does absorb all light, and therefore the object is in fact, black. Of course, the object can be called, "all colors" or some such, by that logic. :p

But of course, there are very few pure-black objects in the universe, and if the human eye can see something as "black," it does infact reflect some of the light spectrum (or else you couldn't see it!).

Kurgan
10-15-2003, 10:40 PM
Let's see, a made up fantasy weapon in a fantasy universe that doesn't exist, that's never truly explained how it works (using made up physics and technology we don't have in our world), and you say it CAN'T be this or that?

The only thing we know is that George says blue/green/purple for good guys and red for bad guys in his films, that's it.

If an EU author put a black blade in one of his stories, it would be "official" right then and there, 'nuff said.



An "in-universe" explanation for the saber colors is probably just that the Jedi and the Sith have a tradition of using certain colors for sabers, and prior to that time or after or by other "saber user groups" no such tradition may exist or a different one. In the EU generally (with few exceptions, now thrown into confusion due to Lucas's decision in AOTC) has been that its personal preference for the user.

It's sort of like how in Medieval times there wasn't just silver or gold colored armor, but also black, blue, and red (using various metallurgical processes and techniques.. not painted).

Tsaya
10-16-2003, 03:55 PM
idontlikegeorge wrote
If the human eye can see something as "black," it does infact reflect some of the light spectrum (or else you couldn't see it!).Not true. You see "black" if you look at a spot that emmits no light at all. It does not have to reflect light to appear black. Close your eyes and have a look: there is no light (unless you try it in front of a light source of course ;) ) but you still see black.

Kurgan wrote:
Let's see, a made up fantasy weapon in a fantasy universe that doesn't exist, that's never truly explained how it works Sure, you are right there.
I wouldn't mind some sort of black energy sword (miniature black hole thing that tears everything apart it touches for example) but since it's black and not sending out any kind of light it would be so stupid if someone called it a lightsaber, don't you think?

Kurgan
10-16-2003, 05:49 PM
Well technically a lightsaber isn't.

It's not a saber and it's not light.

Sort of like a turbo laser. It's not turbo and it's not a laser.

What's in a name? It's catchy. ; )

Butt_Whisper
10-17-2003, 03:49 PM
Well, now that this discussion has turned into art class, i beleive that there could be a black "light" saber. It would not have to be some blackhole death wileding energy weapon, instead it could be used for party tricks, 60's "love-ins", or just to make everyones teeth and eyes trun floresant green/yellow;similar to the effects of a black light. Who's to say that light has the same effects in the star wars universe as it does in reality.

"I see a red saber and I want it painted black, no colors in sabers anymore, I want them to turn black"..... Jick Magger, Solling Rones (LOL)

CapNColostomy
10-25-2003, 06:49 AM
Hmmm...Nobody mentioned the fact that this is all fiction, thus making an attempt at some sort of half assing a philosophical solution very comical. Good saber, bad saber. Feed me laxitives. Because I'm hard pressed to give a ****.

My bad, Kurgan did touch on that "fiction" subject a bit. I get tired of reading at least halfway through any given thread. Please accept my humble appologies. Or don't. See the above laxitive remark for an indication of my feelings on the appolgy matter.

Oblivion Zeta
10-25-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by CapNColostomy
Hmmm...Nobody mentioned the fact that this is all fiction, thus making an attempt at some sort of half assing a philosophical solution very comical. Good saber, bad saber. Feed me laxitives. Because I'm hard pressed to give a ****.

My bad, Kurgan did touch on that "fiction" subject a bit. I get tired of reading at least halfway through any given thread. Please accept my humble appologies. Or don't. See the above laxitive remark for an indication of my feelings on the appolgy matter.

If you don't care then don't reply you jerk.

ManaMana
10-25-2003, 01:12 PM
Uou can't have a black saber, but a gray!

Ehum, the crystal colour has no affect on the blade's colour, Lukes crystal, for example, is white, and Jacen's (Leias and Hans son for those who didn't know) uses a rainbow coulored one. BOTH SABER'S ARE GREEN!

Jaina (Jacen's twin sister) have a gray crystal (Erh... White?) and have a purple blade. Vaders crystal is white to...

CRYSTAL COULOR HAS NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE BLADE!

It's the the sort of crystal that makes the different lights...

Oblivion Zeta
10-25-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by ManaMana
Uou can't have a black saber, but a gray!

Ehum, the crystal colour has no affect on the blade's colour, Lukes crystal, for example, is white, and Jacen's (Leias and Hans son for those who didn't know) uses a rainbow coulored one. BOTH SABER'S ARE GREEN!

Jaina (Jacen's twin sister) have a gray crystal (Erh... White?) and have a purple blade. Vaders crystal is white to...

CRYSTAL COULOR HAS NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE BLADE!

It's the the sort of crystal that makes the different lights...

Where did you find the crystal colors? Because the crystal does have to do with the color.

ManaMana
10-25-2003, 05:53 PM
Look at the start of this page...

CapNColostomy
10-25-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Oblivion Zeta
If you don't care then don't reply you jerk.

Oh, I care. I really do care. So much.