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Luc Solar
10-07-2003, 07:36 PM
We all know that the majority people playing JA are lamers. For every kill there is a lamer. :rolleyes: But if you really think about it...what is a lamer??

I'l make it easy on you. A "lamer" is someone who does not obey the rules.

What rules, you ask? Well, this is the tricky part, since there are as many sets of rules as there are players. Luckily not all players are retarded enough to assume that THEIR set of rules are The Rules that are universally agreed upon by all people. Many of us realize that everyone plays the way they feel like playing and that one individual can't hop from server to server enforcing his own Code Of Honour upon everyone else.

Back to the meaning of the term "laming". Since the only rules that one can think of enforcing are the rules of the game and the rules of the server, laming means braking the beforementioned rules. Not your own, not your clan's, not the neighbor's dog's rules...but the rules of the game or the server.

Since most problems occur in FFA-games, let's see what the rules of that gametype is. Ah, yes: Try to defeat your opponent to score points and thus get more points than anyone else and win the game. Those are the rules. That is the objective. If you do not follow the rules you are a lamer.

Nowhere in those rules did it say "chat to your opponents and walk honourably saber down until 20 minutes is up and you all have a honourable tie with 0 points". Therefore, if you chat or walk around saber down you are not following the rules nor trying to reach the objective. That makes YOU a lamer.

Server rules should be followed no matter how dumb they are. If you don't pay for the server, you have no say. I can host a server and enforce the rule "no jumping or using anything but single saber blue style but not the lunge or the kata" if I want to. Sure, that makes me an idiot, but if I pay, I get to make the rules. If you don't like the rules, you should go some place else to play. If you break the rules, you're out. I have the right to be a retard. I have the right to piss off people on my server. Nobody forces you to come there.

The HUGE problems that JA multiplayer faces are the following:

1) Idiots who assume that their set of Honour Codes apply not just on their buddy's server who came up with them, but worldwide. These idiots whine and bitch and moan untill anyone with half a brain quits playing in disgust. They are not happy untill the whole world bows to their Honourable Code of Honour. These are the guys who log on to YOUR server and tell YOU that you're a lamer and try to kick vote the host off his own server.

2) Idiots who enforce rules on their server that ruin the game. Idiots who do not realize that a rule like "saber down = peace" has and never will work. All it causes is a constant whine-fest where instead of playing the game, people are concerned about who did what and who was sab0r down or just about to start chatting and who is the lamer who must be banned from the server. I mean...JESUS! - you got people shooting ROCKETS all over the place and yet you WALK AROUND SABER DOWN waiting for an excuse to start complaining to an admin after losing those 2 precious hp's of your virtual ChatJedi's health.

To sum it up: Laming is breaking the rules. In a FFA you are a lamer if you don't play. Chatting or "walking around looking cool" is not playing, it is laming. The worst part is that once you rightfully die you start whining. Whining is laming. Trying to kick-vote people who PLAY THE GAME off the server is not only laming, but rude. YOU are breaking the rules of this game. YOU are the lamer.

Everyone is entitled to do what they want on their server. That does not mean, however, that I among other can't point out your retardedness. You bought the wrong game if you don't want to do what the game is designed for. This is a FPS. In FFA the goal is to defeat the opponent by killing him. It's not a chat room. It's not a virtual enviroment where you hang out with your friends and have fun on the expense of poor newbies who happen to log on. It's not a Role Playing Game. If you insist on doing anything else than PLAYING the game, please say it clearly enough so that no-one will log on assuming they can play.

Example: CHAT SERVER. NO FIGHTING.

If you do not name your server like that ^^ then I'll probably be the "lamer" when I log on, but you will surely be the "idiot".

GreenSmoke
10-07-2003, 08:01 PM
thx 4 1337 tip m8

Master William
10-07-2003, 09:27 PM
It's quite obvious you hate these rules.
I did notice your name is Luc Solar [NO HONOUR] or something like that in game.

Fine, you don't like it... Try finding servers that doesn't have those rules...

Well that's hard. Sometimes it's a bit over the line, some guy was doing that dual sabers taunt, where the sabers cross.
So, he should know that with duck or jump, he can interrupt the taunt, I stabbed him while doing it, and half the server goes ''whoa dude lame''

FurionStormrage
10-07-2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Master William
Well that's hard. Sometimes it's a bit over the line, some guy was doing that dual sabers taunt, where the sabers cross.
So, he should know that with duck or jump, he can interrupt the taunt, I stabbed him while doing it, and half the server goes ''whoa dude lame''

Hey, anybody stupid enough to taunt on an FFA server deserves to get a saber in their gut. :D

Sam Fisher
10-07-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by FurionStormrage
Hey, anybody stupid enough to taunt on an FFA server deserves to get a saber in their gut. :D


That has happened to me many a time, but I don't complain, I just get more health. Easy as that. :)

It actually happened to me on a duel server once, when I was in the middle of a taunt, and I didn't know how to get out. That was a long time ago.... a week?:p

Master William
10-07-2003, 10:07 PM
I forgot to say, it was a DUEL server, not FFA.

Uber_Saber
10-07-2003, 11:07 PM
This is why I play (almost exclusively) Siege. Only once have I run into anything like that on a Siege server, and it was just someone saying "Whoa! Saber down = Peace!"

Of course, everybody just ignored him.

CastleBravo
10-07-2003, 11:56 PM
I hate to say it, but this game has a HUGELY disproportionate number of whiners. Especially in duels, which would otherwise be the bit I like best.

I was in a duel, and some dude... IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ACTUAL FIGHTING... you know, the saber-slapping bit... stopped to type something or another. And I sabered him. Hell, I was probably in mid-swing when he went fishing for the keyboard and got killed. Then he spent God knows how long whining about what a no-honor n00b lamer I was. I think half the server quit after the first 10 minutes of continuous illiterate keyboard-bitching. :rolleyes:

If he'd been doing the pre-fight bowing and stuff, OK, I'd get it. Sort of. But if you let your guard down when actually whacking sabers with an opponent... YOU are the lamer a-hole. So shut up and die.

And people squealing about "honor" on FFA or Siege games are just pure idiots.

Sam Fisher
10-08-2003, 12:24 AM
I was in a duel, and some dude... IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ACTUAL FIGHTING... you know, the saber-slapping bit... stopped to type something or another. And I sabered him.


OMG. The same thing happens to me all the time, IN MID SWING!!! I really don't get it.

If you go away, then turn off your saber, then I pause for a min, but after that... You get it.

Cosmos Jack
10-08-2003, 12:32 AM
"Luc Solar" I think you summed that up pretty nicely that's exactly how I feel.

I am a whiner; though, I whine about the whiners. I'm getting better at ignoring all the lamer cries and all, but it is so hard sometimes. I just put them at the top of my hit list. My general little silly code of honor in a FFA is.

(1) I get attacked by you then you're free game from that point on.
(2) I see you attacking other people you are free game.
(3) I see you walking around aimlessly I leave you alone. Sorry if you get in my way. I can't stand people that just come in a FFA to chat. They take up space for people that actually want to play.

In my opinion people not playing the game should be kicked. I leave them alone; none the less, just to keep from hearing the whiny cry baby crap. They start doing it to much then I go after them.

I think some people think I'm just an all out all around lamer; however, that is far from the truth. If there are silly rules posted I usually don't enter the game. If I do it's out of desperation, because of the small number of servers and I try to respect the stupid rules.

I only play 3 types of game play. FFA, CTF, and Siege. I have never heard lamer cried in Siege and I don't think I have in CTF. Both of them are goal oriented and most people who play them are trying to help their team win. For some reason I have never played TFFA in JO or JA. Oh wait a minute I just looked. The reason is there isn't any games for the most part.

FFA in JA has serious cry baby problems just like JO. I have never seen so much whining in a game like I do in the Jedi Knight games. I have lost most of my interest in playing the game that I bought, because of all the LAMERS "Luc Solar's" definition that is.

Nothing like entering a FFA game with no posted rules and some guy comes up and kills me right after I spawn. I don't care, because it's a FFA and I'll get him back. I kill the b@stered and the next thing I know he cries LAMER LAMER LAMER.... Some admin kicks me.

I hadn't noticed at the time, but everyone was storm troopers and asking for orders from some guy. It was the silliest thing I had ever saw. Was it posted that the server was a RPG server no? Was the silly saber down rule posted hmm no? No rules posted nothing to assume.

If you are going to have silly rules on your server other then the rules of the game type. Have them posted that way people who actually want to play the game won't bother joining and you will have to kick less people, because they were playing the game.

There is no HONOR. This is a Computer Game a FPS. Maybe if it was a RPG I would understand all the silly RPGing. It's not. I enter a server that is just FFA I mean everyone is running around shooting and sabering up a storm. There is always one guy that wants to cry "Lamer you have no honor" that type of crap. Then the kick votes start. I think this games biggest problem is it attracts more younger kids then young adults. They don't know the difference between a FFA and a RPG.

g//plaZma
10-08-2003, 12:33 AM
shut up u are all l4m3r n00biez with no honor

edit: this topic has been discussed many times in the JO forums. I think we came to the conclusion that whining n00bs who call people lamer, make fun of their sexual preferences and tell them that they have no honor suck.

Cosmos Jack
10-08-2003, 12:55 AM
I'm always called a noob I'm always in the top 5. Not that it means anything. I would think if I was a noob I wouldn't get a high score. Sometimes I get the highest 2 maybe 3 times in a row and I'm am always the noob. I have been playing sence JKII came out. How long do I have to play to not be a noob?:confused:

I get called a noob for using guns on servers with 70% of the players are using guns... I play on servers that have guns; however, and not saber servers. If you want to fight with sabers? I have noticed there is more then enough of them go there and leave this one alone. Most of my kills are people attacking me and people talking trash to me.

I love the ones that say "why don't you fight like a man?" I can't this a computer game; however, if you want to come to my apartment I will be more then happy to show you some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. The "fight like a man" guys always have 2 or 3 kills maybe even
-1 kills it's so pathetic.

One guy said this to me "I haven't seen you use a saber once Jack. Why don't you fight like a man" At the end of the game I had the highest score the next guy was 6 points below me and the "fight like a man" guy had 2 kills. I told him hey dude I made one kill with a saber just for you and that is 1/2 of all your kills. LOL :rolleyes:

D8alus
10-08-2003, 01:23 AM
I'm still trying to figure out at which point Maul, Dooku, Vader or Palpatine showed ANY remote semblance of honor...

Saber down = peace? Fine, you go try that in single player and if you can prove to me that no one attacks you, then I'll follow that rule.

For me, the standard laming arguments (attacking when not ready, not bowing, attacking when saber down) is not laming, I'm just RP'ing the Dark Side :rolleyes:

The ONLY time I won't attack someone is if they step OUT OF THE FIGHT and the chat bubble comes up, then I patiently wait till they're done.

The REAL laming comes in from people who move spam (lunge, roll stab, lunge..come on guys, I'm sick of running around waiting for you to stop, you're never gonna hit me) or the people who use the high mouse sensitivity or yawspeed exploits and just spin in rapid circles during their attacks. (That's just ghey and I'm pretty sure NOT what the guys at Raven had in mind)

-=FB=-Jagged
10-08-2003, 01:31 AM
yeah, down with lamers, whiners, and complainers.

except when they're whining about lamers.

and not the so-called true lamer - the one with no honor...the n00b. i'm talkin' -- well -- us, i guess. :)

i mean this is like some revolution. i use to be whiner. i would try to defend the code, fight like a man, so on. lightning? NEVER.

until today. :D

i went friggin nuts. i i blew two people up who were "whispering" to each other, then used lightning to dispatch the 2 winners of a nasty saber brawl. 4 cheap kills in like 5 seconds....

my eyes have been opened. luc solar is a savior. i will continue my jaunts into the world of the "lamer" --

-- till i'm kicked. :rolleyes:



BANTHA POODOO NO MORE! I'M A PIT DROID!!! :smirk2:

GEEZus
10-08-2003, 02:00 AM
Lamer=RPGER/Newbie term
Luc Solar is right about people whining too much in ffa servers.
What was mentioned isn't even half of what they whine about though. People complain about me using guns, not dueling, and killing them (in the open while they are saber fighting).
I keep asking these newbies why they don't go to a duel server if they want to go around the map with their saber off to find duels, why they don't go to a sabers only server if they don't like guns, and why they don't just play a game like everquest. I never get answers just more complaints. So after awhile I get sick of these people and ignore everyone else in the server and hunt them down just to kill them constantly so they will leave.
I really don't have much of a problem with these people because they usually end up motivating me to play in the pubs more just so I can make them more angry and upset.

Cosmos Jack
10-08-2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by GEEZus
People complain about me using guns, not dueling, and killing them (in the open while they are saber fighting).
I keep asking these newbies why they don't go to a duel server if they want to go around the map with their saber off to find duels, why they don't go to a sabers only server if they don't like guns, and why they don't just play a game like everquest. I never get answers just more complaints. So after awhile I get sick of these people and ignore everyone else in the server and hunt them down just to kill them constantly so they will leave. Dude you really need to stop pretending you're me. lol:p

boinga1
10-08-2003, 02:32 AM
What's almost funny is going to a server where everyone is saying "BOW" "BOW" 'BOW" and acting like a newbie and asking

"why do you bow?"

"blah blah blah respect blah blah blah"

"Then why don't you bow after a duel?"

"..."

Also, people in Duel mode need to be more considerate. I'm on a server waiting to fight and the duelers start walking towards each other, bowing as they come, slowly slowly, and I'm thinking "There are other poeple waiting to fight! Just fight you idiots!" :p

Fractal-Coffee
10-08-2003, 03:05 AM
If someone turns their sabre off, I cut them in half. If they start complaining, I tell them to go watch ANH and find the part where Vader spares Kenobi's life. Then cut them in half while they try and type back at me.

I have very few morals, so there's no way I'd ever have actual honour.


I like that [NO HONOUR] thing. Perhaps I should incorporate something similar into my name next time I go FFAing.


Unless it's a clan tag, in which case I won't :)

g//plaZma
10-08-2003, 03:55 AM
There was a clan/group thing a few guys started a few months back dedicated to "laming" and the tag was lm3r.:.<name> (minus the < and >). Was kinda cool and got a few funny responses out of some "tru honor jedis" in pubs back in jk2 such as "KICK THE LAMER" right after I connect, and so on.

Kurgan
10-08-2003, 04:22 AM
My quick and easy definition of "laming" is this:

"Doing anything that makes me lose or look bad in front of my friends."

It's the mournful cry of sore losers everywhere...


Nowhere in those rules did it say "chat to your opponents and walk honourably saber down until 20 minutes is up and you all have a honourable tie with 0 points". Therefore, if you chat or walk around saber down you are not following the rules nor trying to reach the objective. That makes YOU a lamer.

An excellent point. The "h0n0r" folk are actually being the lamers, not the people they accuse!

FK | unnamed
10-08-2003, 04:28 AM
Dear god I love those saber only servers that have nades/mines and det packs enabled.

That one FFA map with the lava pit and the big "duel pad" in the center is my favorite.

I spent an hour on some server yesterday standing on the roof just tossing nades down at the people around the "pad" watching 2 guys duel.


That and the oh so sweet...

"server: clientban 2"

Broadcasts I see constantly.

The noobs are helpless w/o their admin mods so they have to put up with my verbal abuse as well.



:D

The game play may suck in JA for us competitive players, but damn is it fun just to go around annoying the hell out of people while armed with a blank name, semi invisible player model, handful of grenades and a foul mouth.


:D :cool:

Cosmos Jack
10-08-2003, 04:35 AM
Just a few minutes ago I was playing a FFA. It was going ok and some guy said "you lamed me" not at me at someone else. I immediately replied "kick the cry baby" At a loss the vote function was disabled; however, that might be why there was more players then criers. On the server. Then the game was over I was 3rd I entered the game late.:(

The next game I won, but the guy who won the previous game started calling me names like pansy and so on. Funny it didn't matter how he won as long as he was the only one doing it. I just replayed by saying looser every time I killed him. lol He left after he lost that game. The sever had allot tuffer players then I'm use too. The usual noob servers are ruining my skills. lol

Then the people crying dual me Jack dual me blah blah...... I lost it there. Asked them to read the rules for FFA. If they want to dual go to a dual server.... If your getting your ass kicked shut up and take it. When I do I just type "LOL" Why? Because it's a game it doesn't mean anything.:o

Kurgan
10-08-2003, 04:55 AM
The game play may suck in JA for us competitive players, but damn is it fun just to go around annoying the hell out of people while armed with a blank name, semi invisible player model, handful of grenades and a foul mouth.

Sounds like you might be crossing a fine line there somewhere, but that's just me.

So thanks to your dislike of the "non-competative" nature of the game you instead "play" at being a jerk to people on purpose?


Though I think that would be less "lame" than kicking people for winning or "whoring/spamming" like a lot of sore losers do or demanding you bow or something like that.

There is a difference between playing the game and not playing the game. Using the example the thread starter used about "not following the rules" by using "honor" and that sort of thing, I think what you proposed would be more in line with that. But only because you purposely use exploits in the game to annoy people.

Take away the blank name, semi-invisible skin and foul mouth part and I would have no problem with that though.

Luc Solar
10-08-2003, 07:11 AM
Sounds like you might be crossing a fine line there somewhere, but that's just me.

LOL! Yeah well.. he is definitely beyond all hope. :D Perhaps two wrongs don't make a right but it sure gives us a few good laughs. The poor noobs have no-one but theirselves to blame though.

I did notice your name is Luc Solar [NO HONOUR] or something like that in game.

I did use that name sometime in JO but I doubt I have used it on any of the 3 times I've played JA online...though I could be wrong. That's me nevertheless. Luc[Insert current mood]Solar. :) And just for the record: No, I'm not any good. :D

The thing is... if unnamed wanted to lame me, it would not be so easy. Why? Because I don't exect him to honour my non-willingness to fight or the chat box above my head. If I die while typing, I respawn. That's it. No need to flip out. If unnamed puts 9 detpacks around me while I type and blows me half way across the map, I'll surely be laughing my ass off. If unnamed rips me apart with some combo over and over again, I'll try to learn it and consider it a good day that made me a better player.

Beig an ass online is a different thing, however. If unnamed called me a fag and told me to GTFO after every time he killed me, I'd probably find another place to play. If people are acting like jerks, I'm not having much fun. I want to hear a "damn you hahaha!" or a "gg/gf/n1/lol", not the elitist "get some skill noob" or the usual "whinebitchmoan-you have no honour you lamed me".

I doubt I have met but a few "elites" and those guys don't seem to speak much. They're probably too busy playing. The "get some skill noob"-comment and the "he lamed me"-whining comes from the same crowd: the people who just got killed by me.

FK | unnamed
10-08-2003, 07:49 AM
I really do not act like a jerk when I lame, at least not in a serious sense.

If I went into a server and started making racial slurs or just being flat out vulgar for no reason, I agree that is not cool.

But when I see a bunch of people standing around, saber off in a big crowd, then I see a det pack sitting two feet away... it's just hard to resist. The temptation is just too strong, and my will too weak.

:p


And yeah I do use some coarse language at times but I don't really see it as being even half as bad as the things the "honor" people are calling me.


I toss a nade at some semi-afk guy who happens to be admin.

Him: "YOU MOTHER<bleep> LAMER"

Me: "shut up <bleep>head."

Him: "<bleep> YOU!"

"server: clientban 3"

Me: "gj <bleep>, now I'm going to shove a pack of these trip mines up your <bleep>"


That is what I meant by having to take my verbal abuse.

Basically I get to respond to his insults with my own, all the while with out being banned.

That is kind of nice for a change...

I mean if I go to a server and every person is playing, I play too.

I never mess with people until they start in with the "WTF YOU <bleep> <bleep> MY SABER WAS DOWN!" stuff.

Same goes for people with a sense of humor.

I drop a det pack on a guys head and he laughs about it or does not care, I leave him alone.

It's the ones who flip out and act like jerks that get terrorized by me.

Kurgan
10-08-2003, 09:51 AM
Hey I didn't mean to point any fingers, I know I've done my share of "sneaky" stuff, like sniping people having a saber duel (doesn't it even recommend you do this in the instruction manual? I should look up the quote... maybe I was dreaming when I read it.) or doing the backstab on somebody while they're typing (of course they usually get me back later, which is just hilarious anyway).

I guess the lesson to be learned in all this is not to take the game THAT seriously. It is a game after all and the point of games is to enjoy them.

Ah... so simple, yet profound!

Jah Warrior
10-08-2003, 09:58 AM
what a nice boy you are:rolleyes:

Cosmos Jack
10-08-2003, 10:00 AM
There needs to be a shut up and play the dam game mod.:rolleyes:

Tsaya
10-08-2003, 10:58 AM
I don't believe that laming is the problem here. The Problem is harassment (wait with your flames until you read the whole post please :D ) :

There are three different reasons for people to get upset, whine or call names:

1. They never realised that they aren't the best. Whenever they die they take it personal. Harassing them is easy as all you have to do is to be better than them. These are the people that can't be helped. They have to understand that no matter how good you are compared to your friends someone will be better.

2. They are harassed by purpose. It's sad but almost all online games have people like FK | unnamed that enjoy ruining the game for others. Can't do much about this either but keep out of the way of such players. As long as everyone is being egoistic there will be people who play that way.
Cheaters fall in the same category: they are being egoists that have fun while they accept the fact they are preventing others from having fun.

3. They are harassed by the different style of others. Now that's the real problem! Most of you probably never thought about it that way but please go ahead and give it a try: 90% of all those lamers (whoever YOU might consider a lamer) ain't doing anything but trying to have fun - just like you . Problem is, it's pretty hard for the two of you to have fun together due to completely different definitions of fun.
As an example, take some players on a "saber only map" (with explosives). They use sabers and are having fun that way and probably didn't even notice there are explosives on the map, thought it to be sabers only and played that way. Now you take a detonator and blow them up: first thing they are: shocked. And of course they are angry, simply because they never thought that this might happen. In their opinion you really are a lamer - just got on the server and ****ed up everything. In some way they are right (after all, the server was saber only until you came).
Of course from your point of view there is nothing to be ashamed of: there are det packs, why not use them? You didn't see a rule against it... If those players get you banned now they are harassing you (again, from your point of view) and you got every right to be angry.
In the end, both of you feel cheated.

I'm not saying they are right. I'm not saying you are right. As a matter of fact: you both are and you both aint. Everyone wanting to have fun isn't causing problem. Enforcing your style to others (by banning someone you think to be a lamer or by killing someone who used the "sabers down"-rule) is causing laming. When it comes to this enforcement there are always the strong and the weak:
"The strong" are those, that have the power to ruin everyone elses game by playing their style. "The weak" can do nothing about it but whine:
FFAer kills a "saber down guy": saber down guy whines ingame
"saber down guy" gets FFAer banned: FFAer is going to some forum, whining there

Everyone wants to have fun. But everyone together is NOT having fun because what's fun to one is harassment to the other (and vice versa)
The solution should be easy: make servers for everyone and label them as what they really are. If you want a true FFA you don't want to try 10 servers full of honor-jedis until you find one. But with servers just being "normal" the problem can't be solved. Everyone considers his style to be "normal" and all others who do not feel the exact same way to be abnormal.

Of course there will always be type 1 and 2 players as well as people with a bad temper or who simply had a bad day. But the problem JA and JO have is simply that all the players with different definitions of "good gameplay" are put on the same servers.

Luc Solar
10-08-2003, 12:55 PM
You do make a good point. However, to me it's quite clear who is right and who is wrong.

It is a FACT that there are no rules in this game except for the ones I mentioned earlier (kill & score points). That is a fact.

The problem isn't people who play "the wrong way". The problem are the people who whine about it.

I could not care less whether my opponent tries to hack me into bits with his saber or uses nothing but the tenloss trying to snipe me from across the map. It makes no difference to me. Use whatever you want. Use solely the stormtrooper rifle, I don't care. Different styles is all good. Makes me have to come up with new strategies to beat you.

The whining is the problem. You swing your saber and I shoot you/get sabered. I'm happy but Mr. whiner is not. Mr. whiner wants me to play exactly the way he wants me to play. Especially if my style causes him problems he will call me lame. He does not want to lose, so I should play in a way that will make him win. He will whine and whine and try to end my gaming session by kicking me or banning me.

Darth_Pnut
10-08-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
My quick and easy definition of "laming" is this:

"Doing anything that makes me lose or look bad in front of my friends."

It's the mournful cry of sore losers everywhere...



Couldn't agree more,

best post I've seen in awhile =p

D_P!

Tsaya
10-08-2003, 01:36 PM
It is a FACT that there are no rules in this game except for the ones I mentioned earlier (kill & score points). That is a fact.

Sure, it is a fact to you. It is because that's how you learned to play FFA. Other peoples got to know a different style of FFA (I know this sounds wierd). They aren't wrong because of that altough from your point of view they seem to be.

And of course don't you have to care. In your case you definitely are the "strong" one who can simply enforce his playing style by practicing it. The whiner (the "weak") can't do anything about it but whine (the ammount of whining depends on character though :) ).

The whiner isn't spamming because he dislikes you. He is because he got nothing to do anyways: with you around he surely can't practice his style of playing so he does what he can to get the situation back he wants (by getting you kicked).

Having different FFA Servers for the different tastes would surely solve that problem. After all you don't want to play FFA vs someone who just stands there and whines (not much of a competition) and he doesn't want to get whacked by you. So if you put a lot of "you" on one server and a lot of whiners on the other that should work fine.
Problem is: there is no way to tell who's going to be on the server before you join it.

Luc Solar
10-08-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Tsaya
Sure, it is a fact to you. It is because that's how you learned to play FFA. Other peoples got to know a different style of FFA (I know this sounds wierd). They aren't wrong because of that altough from your point of view they seem to be.

I beg to differ :D . See, when the game was made there were no rules except for the ones mentioned in the game. (Defeat opponent - score points). That is a fact.

There is no mention about honour codes. Those are rules made by (immature) players at some point after the 1.02 version JO, I believe. These thousands of rules were never agreed upon. Not by me, not by thousands of others. The rules spread like a plaque and resulted in JO becoming a virtual chat. The rules were forced upon the majority of players, those who just wanted to play but couldn't...not unless they obeyed.

The people who you talk about, the ones have "learned" a different game are nothing but kids who got brainwashed by some admin to follow the admin's code of conduct. These people don't know that the admin had no clue. They don't realize that there are no universal rules.

It is a fact that saber down = peace is not a rule that players have agreed upon. It is also a fact that a game of FFA has the rule that we all see when logging on to a server. The same goes for CTF; you simply aren't supposed to grab the flag but then refuse to take it to your base. Just like you aren't supposed to kill your teammates in a team ffa. Just like you aren't supposed to stand around chatting and whining in a ffa.

All the rest of the rules mean nothing. Players have not agreed upon them and therefore they do not exist. Saber down = peace does not exist if the server does not spesifically say so. You can not assume anything.

And of course don't you have to care. In your case you definitely are the "strong" one who can simply enforce his playing style by practicing it. The whiner (the "weak") can't do anything about it but whine

Not really true either. Most servers have admins and admins live to enforce rules. That's the whole reason for their existence and they'll surely want rules, lots of rules, hopefully ambiguous rules that allows them to judge and condemn people. If there are a thousand players to each admin out there, 10 admins have the power to **** up the game of 10.000 people. Not to mention the effect it has on all un-admined servers where these "educated newbies" go playing.

The whiner wins because I can not play without being kicked. I can not play without getting pissed at the retardedness of people. I end up uninstalling the whole damn game because every server is infested with whiners. Do not underestimate the power of whining. :yoda:

Then there are the likes of Unnamed who retaliate. I don't really have the skill or time to do that, but it makes my day every time a demo of "honour noobs getting raped" is posted on this forum. Priceless.

To sum it up: Unnamed gets some enjoyment from the game by making fun of these "rpg"-people.
I get zero enjoyment of the game (although some from ranting and watching Unnamed's demos).
The Honour Code-idiots get to have their virtual chatroom which was once a promising FPS-game.

Problem is: there is no way to tell who's going to be on the server before you join it.

Exactly. Although I can be sure that there are at least one or two whiners who ruin the game. :(

Cosmos Jack
10-08-2003, 04:32 PM
If I was to respond to your post right now "Tsaya" It would just be to say what "Luc Solar" just said... :o

After reading allot of the other posts on this thread from people having similar problems to mine or the exact ones for that matter. I'm in favor of a NO KICK mod.

All the Noobs want their Admin mods. I want a no anti admin mod so I can go in these cheesy @ss servers and play a FPS game. Not having to worry about getting kicked for play the dam game.

BloodRiot
10-08-2003, 04:52 PM
The only decent thing i've seen in a FFA was when i switched to staff and tried to get a crowd with the forward butterfly... at the last second everybody disperced as I was closing in and i try to turn hoping i can still get one from the sides... the end result was me bashing against a croner where a saber down guy was just standing there... he go trpeed between the wall and myself and could do very little other than dying.

I was going for the "aw crap i didnt mean to get you!" but before i could type it, he just LOLed on me and said that was funny.

Now that's a cool spirit in my book. Too bad there's 1 of these guyz for every 100 twits claiming to be the honorbound protectors of the server.

Cheers.

FK | unnamed
10-08-2003, 04:52 PM
I just look at what I do as sticking up for the "little man who likes to play the game".

Really, go onto any Jedi Outcast (I would say Jedi Academy but there is no admin mod yet) server sometime and spec an admin.

The average Joe players who are just there to play and have a good time constantly get verbally abused and screwed with.

The admins abuse the mods functions no different than client side hacks and seemingly enjoy ruining the fun of the players who are just there to enjoy the game.

I mean really, why would anyone want to stick around in this community if all they encountered when they went from server to server was verbal abuse and rcon abuse?

And before anyone says "it's their server they can do what they want" keep in mind this happens just as much on public servers as it does on private ones.

People may not have rcon but they will gang up and vote people off just to be jerks. And all because they average Joe player didn't conform to this idiotís view of what the "universal code of Jedi honor" was.

So if abusing <bleep>head admins and players makes me a bad guy, I'm perfectly comfortable with that label.

I simply look at it as giving a bunch of <bleep>holes a taste of their own medicine.

-=FB=-Jagged
10-08-2003, 06:28 PM
tsaya, i'm gonna try and reply to your dumb post without flaming you....

dumb post? crap, ive already failed. :rolleyes:

that is the biggest load of crap. lucsolar is right. there are NOT two sets of rules. there are two sets of PEOPLE; those who read the server rules and obey and those who ignore them and create this stupid code of honor.

and we, as true fps players, or chat killers, or "saber down=ur an idiot" decapitators, or "where's your honor?" castrators, are usually powerless to stop those people from booting us from the server, because were almost always outnumbered. SO WE PRETTY MUCH CAN'T "BEND THEM TO OUR STYLE" OF GAMING, as you would like to think.

my advice to my "lamer" brethren -- stick to gun servers. the action is fast enough that people usually won't start whining. and you probably wont get kicked --

a) because people are too busy playing to care and
b) because others are laming like you, and winning because of it.

at least, that is where i go to lame, because it isnt laming there. and its funny because last night i got on a guns server and found a dude who was hell-bent on using a saber, no offensive force. i slaughtered him a couple of times and he would whine, so i just kept saying "adapt". and he did. for three straight games, we were 1 and 2 in the rankings, with me getting 1st twice.

and i have a new friend, :)

ExcelsioN
10-08-2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Master William

Well that's hard. Sometimes it's a bit over the line, some guy was doing that dual sabers taunt, where the sabers cross.
So, he should know that with duck or jump, he can interrupt the taunt, I stabbed him while doing it, and half the server goes ''whoa dude lame''

I got kicked for doing exactly that.

Lamers are people who disobey this code, and end up being kicked. Ive been accused of being a lamer a lot of times. I disagree with the code, but it seems to be so popular anyway.

Ah well, theres not much we can do about it, so, grin and bear it! :D :D :D

p.s. theres far too many of these more or less the same threads, perhaps an admin could merge them all into one...:)

Kurgan
10-08-2003, 08:20 PM
Now, I will freely admit, it IS possible to be nuisance while still technically following the rules.

Examples:

Having a super high ping that never goes down.
Spamming the same line of crap over and over in chat.
Cussing out the admin (we have feelings too! *sniff*)
In CTF, taking the flag and then just hiding somewhere and never coming out and capping.
Repeatedly attacking teammates despite warnings to stop.
Killing yourself on purpose over and over and over....
Joining and leaving and joining and leaving (in an attempt to lag the server)
etc.

I could possibly join a server hosted in Japan and just go into spectator mode sit there for days. Or even just sit in spectator mode and hurl racial slurs and cuss at people.

I could join a server and stand in the center with fists out and jump tape down a button that runs a script to make me jump continuously.

Some servers won't have a problem with that, and I might be a source of points for some players, but in certain game modes that's really stupid, and it takes up a spot for a "real" player.



Obviously ID Software and Raven understood this which is why admins still have the power to kick and ban. So there are still legit reasons to do so.

I agree though that there is are two fuzzy "groups" of players.. those who have made up rules and those who are knowledable enough to set those rules into the server itself so they don't have to kick people "for no reason."

And even the folks with the made up rules could be a lot more consistent and make a better effort to make those rules KNOWN so that people don't waste their time trying to join a server they won't have any fun on.

Astrotoy7
10-09-2003, 12:45 PM
when I was a kid(in the 80s) who would've thought calling someone a n00b or lamer would be such an insult. Back then saying S**T and F**K (add the word head as required)were enough for us... damn you kids ! i'm glad i've never run into such unsavoury characters in my limited MP experiences

Nonetheless, hope you are all having fun ! remember - EFF, YUU, ENN, FUN ! Thats what gaming is all about

MTFBWYA

Tsaya
10-09-2003, 02:55 PM
Fk|Unnamed wrote:
I simply look at it as giving a bunch of <bleep>holes a taste of their own medicine.
The problem is: those whiners probably think the exact same thing when they get you kicked.

Fk|Unnamed wrote:
The admins abuse the mods functions no different than client side hacks and seemingly enjoy ruining the fun of the players who are just there to enjoy the game.
That's just as bad as a player harassing others: type 2 admin I'd say... Not much one can do about that but switch to another server. Kinda sad though, I agree.

-=FB=-Jagged wrote:
SO WE PRETTY MUCH CAN'T "BEND THEM TO OUR STYLE" OF GAMING, as you would like to think.

That's where you are wrong. By killing them you are bending them. In return, they bend you by getting you kicked.

-=FB=-Jagged wrote:
There are NOT two sets of rules. There are two sets of PEOPLE; those who read the server rules and obey and those who ignore them and create this stupid code of honor.
Isn't that exactly what I said? I never talked about 2 sets of rules but about different interpretations of rules. Of course that code of honor is stupid - to you. To them it's fun. There is nothing wrong about hating that code - but there is nothing wrong about liking it either (after all one can see where it comes from - jedi being people of honor).

Again, the problem is not their interpretation of FFA and it's not yours. It's just that the two won't work together. You can argue all day long who's right and who's wrong - it simply does not matter because no one is going to admit he's not.
Splitting the servers and splitting the people who play on them is the only solution I see. But then again it seems like some of you already adapted to the situation and wouldn't wanna miss the crybabies anymore because harassing them is more fun than playing - at least to you.
Just my opinion though.

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-09-2003, 03:25 PM
I have automated messages on my servers that say the following:

This is a war zone, not a chatroom

Chat at your own risk, don't whine if you die

Wait until you die to chat or change settings

Only chatters get chatkilled

It's noob to whine about the Force in a Star Wars game. Go play The Sims instead

People saber off then stab you in the back when you run by. None of that saber off = peace BS here

Saber off = easy kill

'You are unwise to lower your defenses'. Hmm, where have I heard that before?

Remember when Obi-wan lowered his saber and Vader didn't kill him? Hmm, neither do I.

Remember when Qui-gon, Obi-wan, and Maul all bowed to each other before power dueling? Hmm, neither do I.

If you bow to duel, you probably sit to pee

Who really made up all these 'honor' rules anyway, George Lucas or a bunch of whiney teenage boys?

All kills are legal on this server. Whiners deal or leave. Saber off = join Obi-wan's ghost

Lower your defenses at your own risk, then take the consequences like a warrior, not a whiner

After reading these messages, the following conversation occured:

say: >)O(< ENmiTy: thats retarded....: /
say: >)O(< ENmiTy: the person who wrote that should be shot
say: >)O(< ENmiTy: mindless fighting doesn't prove anything..

say: CanisLupisLupis: yes it does

say: >)O(< ENmiTy: promoting mindless FFA and SD kills promotes disorderly conduct amoung the online community

say: CanisLupisLupis: hmmmm
say: CanisLupisLupis: oh go lag yourself

Tsk tsk, we can't have "disorderly conduct" on a Free for All server, now can we?

Luc Solar
10-09-2003, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
say: >)O(< ENmiTy: mindless fighting doesn't prove anything..

say: CanisLupisLupis: yes it does

say: >)O(< ENmiTy: promoting mindless FFA and SD kills promotes disorderly conduct amoung the online community

say: CanisLupisLupis: hmmmm
say: CanisLupisLupis: oh go lag yourself


HAAHAHAHAHAA! That's priceless...priceless... I'm soo going to put that in my sig! :D

Rumor
10-09-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Tsaya
The problem is: those whiners probably think the exact same thing when they get you kicked.


That's just as bad as a player harassing others: type 2 admin I'd say... Not much one can do about that but switch to another server. Kinda sad though, I agree.


That's where you are wrong. By killing them you are bending them. In return, they bend you by getting you kicked.


Isn't that exactly what I said? I never talked about 2 sets of rules but about different interpretations of rules. Of course that code of honor is stupid - to you. To them it's fun. There is nothing wrong about hating that code - but there is nothing wrong about liking it either (after all one can see where it comes from - jedi being people of honor).

Again, the problem is not their interpretation of FFA and it's not yours. It's just that the two won't work together. You can argue all day long who's right and who's wrong - it simply does not matter because no one is going to admit he's not.
Splitting the servers and splitting the people who play on them is the only solution I see. But then again it seems like some of you already adapted to the situation and wouldn't wanna miss the crybabies anymore because harassing them is more fun than playing - at least to you.
Just my opinion though.

FFA = free for ALL not just you.

find another server? yeah lets see here.

kid buys the game. figures, hey i get to frag people with starwars weapons!! cool beans!!

installs and goes into a server.
kills someone just like in any other game.
/amturnthe******lamerintoaspidermonkey kid
/amslap kid

<admin> HEY U ****IN LAMER UR A ****** UR MOM IS A WHORE <insert racial/sexual slur here>

ok weird server. kid tries another. same result. and another and another.

<kid> WELL **** THIS BULL****

*kid throws the game in the trash.

considering 99% of the servers in jk2/jk3 are exactly the same, i say go shove a jackhammer down your throat and turn it on if you have any more "bright" ideas that you wish to enlighten us with.

cbc72
10-09-2003, 05:03 PM
Amidala from Chop Shop,

What is your server, I want to play there.

To all,

Someone posted above they got kicked for killing someone doing a taunt? In my book, there is no better time to kill someone. If they are taunting, I am sure as heck going to try and slice them.

I do find it entertaining since reading this thread to go onto servers and stick up for those being accused of laming. Of course I always vote no on the kick votes.

Ardent
10-09-2003, 05:11 PM
My defintion of laming is simple.

If I am better than you, then I am a lamer.

If I bs you, I am laming.

If I dfa you, I am laming.

Hell, if I kata you, I am laming.

If I kill you, I am laming.

Since that's what it seems to mean.

Lately I've been reigning myself in and not arbitrarily killing everyone (I've been respecting the saber down rules), and I still win by a landslide. So I'm still a lamer. Despite not breaking any publicly-stated server rules. I've decided I can't win, and that I'll stick with being a lamer.

kazesan
10-09-2003, 05:49 PM
Laming is breaking rules set by players and servers. I only care about what the server says though. Unless an automated server message or the message at the loading screen says otherwise I'm gonna kill anyone in my way.

I got chewed out by numerous people and even kicked from a server for hitting people with their sabers down. On a powerduel server with only the DL-44 and sabers I got called a lamer because I shot someone in the head while they were bowing.

I actually try to frequent Amidala's chopshop servers because of the anti "honor" rules enforced there. If you chat you die and no one ever complains. Also the saber damage scale makes CTF and FFA that much better.

I would be better off making an anti honor clan or adding something in my name so people know they are gonna die regardless of whether or not their bowing in honorable fashion.

Cosmos Jack
10-09-2003, 05:50 PM
I'm still waiting for my "no kick hack" people. Lets cram one out.....Today.... This month......Any time........ sometime maybe today............

I'm waiting here......:cool:

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-09-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by cbc72
Amidala from Chop Shop,

What is your server, I want to play there.



Chop Shop #1 INCREASED SABER DAMAGE FFA-CTF 66.98.176.193

Chop Shop #2 INCREASED SABER DAMAGE FFA-CTF 66.98.177.150

The servers are set-up the same way: full Force, all Weapons enabled, increased saber damage, dismemberment enabled, fast Force regeneration and increased gamespeed (run 20% faster). Private dueling is disabled (go to a duel server if you want to duel) so everyone is in the fight. Voting is disabled so superior players can't get kicked for winning.

Map rotation is all 5 FFA maps followed by all 5 CTF maps, repeat. I try to synchronize the servers so when one is in the FFA part of the cycle, the other is in the CTF part of the cycle, so you can choose which gametype you want or jump from one to the other to stay in the same gametype, if there's room. When the servers are (rarely) listed by the Master Server List, they are both full and I restrict sv_maxping so there are no high-pingers. Use The All Seeing Eye and you can always find them, or use New Favorite to enter the IPs directly.

You can use powerful lightsabers, weapons, or the Force to kill, the choice is up to you. All kills are legal, although you don't have to chatkill or saber-down kill if you don't want to, it is permitted and no whining is allowed if it happens. About the only rule is no chat spamming or extreme racist\vulgar\taunting\being an ******* spamming.

Luc Solar
10-09-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by kazesan
I would be better off making an anti honor clan or adding something in my name so people know they are gonna die regardless of whether or not their bowing in honorable fashion.

I used to run around in JO as Luc[NoHonour!]Solar ;)

I did get kicked a lot and it seemed that admins kept a pretty close eye on me. :D

Choose your name well and you will be kicked in 3 seconds (no profanities needed).

Fractal-Coffee
10-09-2003, 07:04 PM
I've started calling myself 'Dishonourable-Coffee'.

Maybe I can con my mates into changing their names too, so we'd have lots of 'Dishonourable-<name>' people running around being evil.

Hey, new clan...

Tsaya
10-09-2003, 07:12 PM
Rumor wrote:
Considering 99% of the servers in jk2/jk3 are exactly the same, i say go shove a jackhammer down your throat and turn it on if you have any more "bright" ideas that you wish to enlighten us with.
LOL. Just because you don't like my opinion I'm not going to shut up. This is a public board and I have a right to write down what I believe.
You don't have to like what I write, you don't have to believe any of it is true and you don't even have to read it. But be assured: I won't shut up because you are to much of an egoist to see the rights of other players (yeah, exactly: those 99% of lamers out there also bought the game) - or users in this forum...
You don't solve a problem by stating that you are right and everyone else is wrong - it simply won't work (even IF you are right it won't!). But that's exactly what you do Rumor.

I know I am going to be flamed for what I am going to write now but know what? I don't care:
If 99% if the servers out there are full of whiners, jerks, and a*******, this probably means that 99% of the people out there enjoy being what you call a lamer. Which means that 99% of all kids buying this game won't have any problems NOT fragging someone with StarWars weapons but chat instead. (And now lets be realistic and forget this 99% crap)

For all of you who disagreed with my opinion: my conclusion seems to be right after all. Or how do you explain that there are hardly any of these problems on Amidala's Server (which is labeled as I suggested all servers should be)?
I made an analysis of what's wrong and tried to give and idea of how it could be solved instead of just whining because I got kicked off 20 servers in row.

Kusanavi
10-09-2003, 07:13 PM
I hate whiners and lamers more than anything else in JA but I just ignore them but there's just 1 freaking move that I can't ignore and that's the butterfly attack with staff -_- you got to admit it's the lamest attack ever in a game (it touches you once and it kills you instantly),even if you're one of the most skilled players out there in JA it still kills you and it's very whorish (that it can't be easily whored/overused)

FK | unnamed
10-09-2003, 07:14 PM
Amidala from Chop Shop makes a very good point.

It is not isolated to "if you don't like their rules, don't play on their server" situations.


These "honor" people are like parasites, they are everywhere.

Look at Amidala's server, he/she openly posted the rules for everyone to see, the saber off = peace stuff here does not fly.


But I guarantee you if voting was enabled those whiny honor noobs would have voted every single person on the server who *was obeying the rules, right off of it.


This is why honor people are mocked and harassed by players.

If you people would just stick to private severs and never try to enforce that crap on people, chances are you would be left alone.

But you go to public and private servers where those stupid little fairy tales rules are not taken seriously, and you *do try to enforce them on other players.

g//plaZma
10-09-2003, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by Kusanavi
I hate whiners and lamers more than anything else in JA but I just ignore them but there's just 1 freaking move that I can't ignore and that's the butterfly attack with staff -_- you got to admit it's the lamest attack ever in a game (it touches you once and it kills you instantly),even if you're one of the most skilled players out there in JA it still kills you and it's very whorish (that it can't be easily whored/overused)

You do realize that you're whining about a move that has been put into the game right now, right? Didn't you just say you hate whiners?

It's very easy to dodge a butterfly anyways. It's just like the JK2 DFA. Move out of the way when you see it coming, if you don't move then well, you're screwed.

Master William
10-09-2003, 07:42 PM
Amidala from Chop Shop wrote:
Private duels have been turned OFF (go to a duel server if you want to duel)

That's gotta be the silliest thing I ever heard...
Why do you think they included duels in FFA?
So people can duel!

Tss

And why are people so negative here in the boards?
Are you big fans of the UT games?

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-09-2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Master William
That's gotta be the silliest thing I ever heard...
Why do you think they included duels in FFA?
So people can duel!

Tss

Why do you think Raven made the g_privateDuel cvar available, hmmmm? So admins like me can set it to 0 ZERO ZIP NADA

Every map loading screen has a different MOTD, and one of them says "Dueling is for Duel servers, this is FFA and CTF". An automated message says "Dueling is disabled, dueling with one-hit kill lightsabers is pointless".

Actually, that isn't entirely accurate. I used to run a JK2 dueling server with increased saber damage and very high saber-locking frequency. A lot of people preferred it because you didn't have to wait so long for the duels to finish, it was a quick 2 out of 3 each round. It was more challenging because you couldn't just flail away and leave yourself open to attack, because that meant instant death. And unlike most duel servers where 90% used Red stance, all three stances could kill so you saw people using all three stances successfully. But people used to JK2 1.04 weak lightsabers couldn't adapt and therefore called it "gay" and quit.

Master William
10-09-2003, 08:21 PM
Just played at the second server...

Nice, but the only thing I disliked was the heavy saber damage.
I had no chance to even shoot my opponents, because I was instantly slashed at a 0.1 second ;)

I did like the mix of different gametypes, also the dismemberment was very funny :)

g//plaZma
10-09-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Master William
Just played at the second server...

Nice, but the only thing I disliked was the heavy saber damage.
I had no chance to even shoot my opponents, because I was instantly slashed at a 0.1 second ;)

I did like the mix of different gametypes, also the dismemberment was very funny :)

Try moving around and strafe jumping to avoid being slashed by sabers... It's your own fault if you get slashed apart when a saberist is running at you with his saber flailing. Try putting some distance between you and your target.

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-09-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Master William
Just played at the second server...

Nice, but the only thing I disliked was the heavy saber damage.
I had no chance to even shoot my opponents, because I was instantly slashed at a 0.1 second ;)

I did like the mix of different gametypes, also the dismemberment was very funny :)

There is a player who comes by the servers from time to time, uses the names Buck Futter and [HUMP-U] Law. This guy is amazing. He is on a server with jacked-up saber damage and he doesn't use a saber during the FFA games! He takes the Saber Offense, Defense, and Throw points he saves and uses them for Force powers. He is constantly in motion, using guns and Force only, and owns pretty good players that have sabers in addition to guns and Force. He used every weapon available including mines, det packs, thermals, etc.

Then it changed to CTF but he just used a single saber Red Stance, guns, and Force and outscored everyone. So it is possible to win on my servers if you are fast and good with guns, despite the increased saber damage.

Vanor
10-09-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Actually, that isn't entirely accurate. I used to run a JK2 dueling server with increased saber damage and very high saber-locking frequency.

I've played with saberdamage set to 2 in duels, and I much perfer it. It's not always 1 hit kills it's 2-3 hit kills, but 1 hit kills are quite possable. But it is much better gameplay IMO.

What's the cvar to increase the chance of saber locking?

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-09-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Vanor
I've played with saberdamage set to 2 in duels, and I much perfer it. It's not always 1 hit kills it's 2-3 hit kills, but 1 hit kills are quite possable. But it is much better gameplay IMO.

What's the cvar to increase the chance of saber locking?

seta g_saberLocking "1"
seta g_saberLockFactor "20"

The first cvar enables saber locks during duels. The second determines the frequency, and 20 is the maximum according to Raven.

By the way, thanks for that very interesting history lesson about the origins of "saber off = peace". It's amazing how something that started out reasonable and practical has been blown all out of proportion by overzealous fanatical teenage boys into an "honor code" religion.

Vanor
10-09-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
The first cvar enables saber locks during duels. The second determines the frequency, and 20 is the maximum according to Raven.
Cool thanks :)

By the way, thanks for that very interesting history lesson about the origins of "saber off = peace".
No prob :) It sometimes helps to know how things used to be, to help understand how they are now.

It seems to me, what happened, was some of us old timers, brought that into JO when we started playing that. Then it got corupted into what it is now... A really stupid idea.

Back in the days of JK, saber off did mean you weren't fighting... But if you turned it off thinking you could run and get some health packs, all you got for it, was a saber in the back, with everyone else commenting on how lame you were.

Running for healthpacks in JK duels, was considered "dishonorable" :)

vert1go
10-09-2003, 10:44 PM
Running for health packs never mattered much in jk1 though, it was more a waste of time than aything else. Once you were hit it only took one more seconday swing to finish the fight (Unless you're playing a map with armor).

In jk1 I never minded following the "fists=peace" thing.. because I never, in 5 years, saw it abused by anyone, and 99% of the time the guy was properly afk, not just doing it so you wouldn't attack. But in jk2 you see it abused every day by newbies who are about to be killed, and seem to think it will act as a shield for them. So in jk2, saberdown to me is nothing but an easy kill, kthxbie gg etc.

jk2 is an embarassment on jk1 imo, both in player attitude and gameplay really. :( :p

Kurgan
10-10-2003, 02:53 AM
I think we can agree that the only real problem with the "Honor" people is that they think their rules apply to EVERY server, not just the one they are adminning.

Honor codes for dueling in JK1 were somewhat reasonable. There was no bowing or any of that nonsense, it was just saber only, no or neutral force, no healing and one on one until the fight was over. But it made more sense there because JK1 had no Duel Mode, it had no Private Duel option, etc. And this was only for saber dueling, plenty of people played Full Force free for all type battles like we do now. Occasionally people would say "you killed me while I was typing!" but of course there were no "chat boxes" in JK1. Also occasionally somebody would say "fists = peace!" (you couldn't turn your saber off, only switch to fists) but we just laughed these people off usually.... because everybody knew the so-called "peace" guy could easily toss Force Destruction or erect a Protection bubble at any second, so he had to be put down.

; )


Now that JA and JK2 HAVE those options, there is no reason to make up honor codes except to make the game restricted and boring because "honor" people hate to lose and look bad in front of their friends.


On my server (Amidala, it sounds like we share a lot of ideas in common, cool!) I run with debugmelee 1, normal game speed, full force, normal regen, saberdamagescale 2, normal blocking, and I rotate all maps in a game type (the only gametype I rarely host is Team FFA... maybe I should change that).

I have also found that saberdamagescale 2 is more fun for duels. It feels and flows better, you don't have to wait so long, and its a little more realistic (in-universe).

I don't recognize the "honor" rules.

Somebody needs to get Artifex out here with his Anti Saberist Code (ASC). Rad Blackrose joined my server with the tag... made me proud. ; )


I bought this game to enjoy what it has to offer, not limit myself to 1% of the gameplay because some random strangers decided I should.

I agree that playing on another person's server obliges you to obey their rules (no matter how silly) or leave.

I also object to the "mob rule" mentality that makes people think they can just get together and vote kick anybody for any reason. Voting is a nice feature if the admin isn't there, but it's sorely abused by people like this to kick folks for "laming" (ie: winning and not obeying their made up "honor" codes).

Honor codes like their's are totally anti-competative and frankly anti-starwars, so I'm all for weanining people off them. Who knows... they just might have more fun?

tuinal
10-10-2003, 03:20 AM
I just don't understand why people would want to kill people with their sabers down / AFK / rocket spam while they're saber duelling someone else, etc. There's no challenge, skill, or kudos for doing it.

To me the fun of an FFA is taking on two or three people on even terms and winning through skill. And I'm probably pretty good at it since I win 90% of FFA games, usually by a hefty margin. I don't kill people with sabers down (although, people who turn them off because they know they're screwed or want to launch a surprise attack get killed), I use a single saber, I don't use guns, or dark force powers - usually just absorb, heal, push, speed.

I don't really mind people 'laming', since it's funny as hell pushing a rocket back in their face or flattening them with a DFA or lunge as they run in flailing their staff/dual sabers wildly (or run in backwards in the case of dual sabers - what did we learn about a 1 hit kill backstab in JO, eh Raven?). I don't mind lamers spamming butterfly attacks or saber shields either, since they constitute about half my kills.

It's more the whining, than the laming, that irritates.

- id

Rumor
10-10-2003, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Tsaya
LOL. Just because you don't like my opinion I'm not going to shut up. This is a public board and I have a right to write down what I believe.
You don't have to like what I write, you don't have to believe any of it is true and you don't even have to read it. But be assured: I won't shut up because you are to much of an egoist to see the rights of other players (yeah, exactly: those 99% of lamers out there also bought the game) - or users in this forum...
You don't solve a problem by stating that you are right and everyone else is wrong - it simply won't work (even IF you are right it won't!). But that's exactly what you do Rumor.

I know I am going to be flamed for what I am going to write now but know what? I don't care:
If 99% if the servers out there are full of whiners, jerks, and a*******, this probably means that 99% of the people out there enjoy being what you call a lamer. Which means that 99% of all kids buying this game won't have any problems NOT fragging someone with StarWars weapons but chat instead. (And now lets be realistic and forget this 99% crap)

For all of you who disagreed with my opinion: my conclusion seems to be right after all. Or how do you explain that there are hardly any of these problems on Amidala's Server (which is labeled as I suggested all servers should be)?
I made an analysis of what's wrong and tried to give and idea of how it could be solved instead of just whining because I got kicked off 20 servers in row.

oh we aren't whining. thats your job, remember?

OMFG I GOT KILLD BY HIZ LEET KATA OMFG OMG OMG!@!#

OMG DFA MUST B FIXD

NO GRIP KICKING ******!!!@#!@#

etc.

and you can write down all you like. just leave the typing to the people who know what they are talking about (dare i say f*ing n00b?).

there were around 800 jk2 servers before JA came out.

out of those tell me of 20 that did not come with those ****** rules and 2 year old admins along with them.

ill get you started.

g//ffa
both chopshops
fluxgateway
=X=
diverse
ms3
s~
fk1
fk2
sd
afc

Game, Set, and Match. Thanks for playing.

Rad Blackrose
10-10-2003, 06:54 AM
I'd subtract shockwave's server, because it became fk's first server when they merged.

I only remember fk having one server before the fk/shockwave merger.

FK | unnamed
10-10-2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
I'd subtract shockwave's server, because it became fk's first server when they merged.

I only remember fk having one server before the fk/shockwave merger.


see below
|
|
|
|
V

The EQ was a sponsered server, the other one Josh (fallen) paid for out of pocket.

the EQ sponsered server is still up, the other two went down when he and I pulled the plug on them.

I never got around to setting up a JA server for our clan because none of us really like it enough to play it much..

:(


Rob (crow) and I just bought a jk2 duel from gaminghost.com for all of the old school players to mess around in until we see if JA gets fixed via patch/mod.

StormHammer
10-10-2003, 07:52 AM
Well, I can honestly say I've not encountered many difficulties online yet. I've not really had any run-ins with egomaniacal server admins, or Honor-junkies spouting reams of useless nonsense because they got killed.

I did encounter a 'team-killer' in a Seige server recently, and quite rightly he got kicked. He kept coming back, though, so we had to keep voting him off. That kind of idiot is an obvious 'lamer' who obviously delights in ruining the game for everyone else.

I did actually kill a couple of team-mates myself, purely by accident. Each time, I apologised, and we just got on with the rest of the game.

The only time I bow or taunt is on a Duel server - and only if someone bows to me first. I tend to ignore people who are chatting, to be honest - mostly because it takes no effort to kill them - although if I can see that a particular player is constantly chatting throughout a game, then I kill them. If you want to do a lot of 'chatting', then use ICQ, or MSN, or anthing else, just go somewhere else and let another 'player' onto the server.

I also completely ignore any insults that may be directed at me. It's pointless arguing with someone who just wants to spout meaningless garbage. I'll play whatever game mode the way it's meant to be played, and if people can't deal with that, it's their problem not mine.

And it was great playing on your server, Kurgan. ;)

ksk h2o
10-10-2003, 11:49 AM
Ah it brings a tear to my eye to see so many old Promod Fellas in one thread bringng on the funny.

Luc seems like you're reviving the old ASC. Can't wait to see the players react the same way as the responses to this thread.

I'd like to post a note to admins: IF YOU WANT A NO FORCE GAME STOP HOSTING FULL FORCE OR FORCE ENABLED SERVERS.

I think Luke left out an important player class from this lamer post... the never ending "COMPLAIN ABOUT FORCE DUDE." This player will go into Whine mode when killed by grip/throw/pull/push/kick(nomore)/lightning. He will also connect to THE ONLY FULL FORCE DUEL SERVER with people on it and start to say "NO FORCE PLZ."

argh

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-10-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by ksk h2o

I'd like to post a note to admins: IF YOU WANT A NO FORCE GAME STOP HOSTING FULL FORCE OR FORCE ENABLED SERVERS.

I think Luke left out an important player class from this lamer post... the never ending "COMPLAIN ABOUT FORCE DUDE." This player will go into Whine mode when killed by grip/throw/pull/push/kick(nomore)/lightning. He will also connect to THE ONLY FULL FORCE DUEL SERVER with people on it and start to say "NO FORCE PLZ."

argh

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I have automated messages on my servers that say the following:


It's noob to whine about the Force in a Star Wars game. Go play The Sims instead

Luc Solar
10-10-2003, 02:26 PM
Heh, I loved those guys who started a FF duel with: "NO KICKZ NO LUNGE NO RED STANCE NO FORCE NO SABERTHROW NO GROUND KILLING"

I mean, what can you reply to that? :confused: "ummm... dude, like...no..?"

Prime
10-10-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Heh, I loved those guys who started a FF duel with: "NO KICKZ NO LUNGE NO RED STANCE NO FORCE NO SABERTHROW NO GROUND KILLING" I always liked that they have it bound to a key and they took the time to colour all the letters...

Imperial_thug
10-10-2003, 03:08 PM
What laming means to me is:

Walking around in FFA with saber off, screaming "saber off=peace".

Or when you use guns they scream "gunwhore" or when you push they scream "pushwhore", etc.

Or they constantly whine about ping as an excuse for the fact that they just plain suck.

basically a lamer is a form of troll that occupies game servers. They exist soley to hinder the flow of gameplay and ruin everyone elses game experience.

gaara
10-10-2003, 03:15 PM
First of all, you dont own the server.

Second, It doesnt matter what rules, it could be everyone has to have the same model or you get banned, its thier server and they can do so.

Third, no laming rule will continue to the end of jk time, if you dont like it, dont play ffa.

Ardent
10-10-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by gaara
First of all, you dont own the server.

The servers we do own stay surprisingly honor nub-free. Probably because the sheer bulk of dishonorable play they attract sends the honor-nubs packing really fast. Only on a duel server does it have a place, only in the first bow.

Second, It doesnt matter what rules, it could be everyone has to have the same model or you get banned, its thier server and they can do so.

Uh...right. Our server rules make sense, to us, so we use them. I'm not going around trying to get limited by other admins...I carefully read those motd. Very few link to a website or have any rules specifics in them. In fact a lot of them barely have a MotD.

Third, no laming rule will continue to the end of jk time, if you dont like it, dont play ffa.

But "no laming" is such an amorphous accusation. It's like me suing you for "something." Unless a specification is made, laming can mean anything. Calling someone a lamer is fine if you can explain what he did that was lame.

I got called a lamer last night because someone punched me and I backslashed them. I killed four other people, who had their sabers down, who happened to be brilliant enough to be standing in the middle of the room where we were fighting. So I became a lamer for defending myself.

I don't know. A lot of what these people say won't fly in the real world...why should it fly in cyberspace?

traj
10-10-2003, 03:35 PM
Isnt the point of the internet/cyberspace to get away with **** that you cant get away with in the real world?

Ardent
10-10-2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by traj
Isnt the point of the internet/cyberspace to get away with **** that you cant get away with in the real world?

I dunno. If you happen to live in Connecticut and you commit a crime via cyberspace, I can still go and arrest you on probable cause, then build my chain of evidence to have you convicted.

Just wait until I'm a federal agent. ^-^

kazesan
10-10-2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by ksk h2o
Ah it brings a tear to my eye to see so many old Promod Fellas in one thread bringng on the funny.

Luc seems like you're reviving the old ASC. Can't wait to see the players react the same way as the responses to this thread.



Yeah I feel the same way. I may have to add an ASC tag to my name. I still smile thinking about all the times I've shot people on powerduel servers. Or the time when I got kicked for "laming" If only Promod could come back....

Amidala's server reminds me alot of Promod though. What with the instant kills and all. I may have to take it upon myself to become the most feared bow/chatkiller in the GFFA. :fett:

gaara
10-10-2003, 03:56 PM
Ardent, lol was i talk to you directly? No

No i dont care about your servers,
No i was not even talking about you, and
Yes i realize your whole post there was basically
bragging about how good your servers are.

Im talking in general.

If you want to bring it into real life,
I'll bring it to real life also.

If you enter a house (server) with the owner (admin)
that is asian and he asks you to take off your shoes
before entering (a rule admin has made), would you?
Does he have that right? I guess so its HIS house (server).

Why would you call him a Stupid (noob) for making such a rule?

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-10-2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by gaara

If you want to bring it into real life,
I'll bring it to real life also.

If you enter a house (server) with the owner (admin)
that is asian and he asks you to take off your shoes
before entering (a rule admin has made), would you?
Does he have that right? I guess so its HIS house (server).

Why would you call him a Stupid (noob) for making such a rule?

We all agree that the server operators make the rules, and players should follow them or go elsewhere, no one is disagreeing with you!

But the problem is the opposite of what you stated. Imagine if the owner in your example above goes to other people's homes and starts yelling "Take off your shoes you f**king Caucasian, have you no manners?!!!!!" "Shoe wearer!!!" "Shoe wearer!!!" "Admin, kick him, he's wearing shoes!!" "Dammit you f**king Caucasian, don't you know shoes off = civilized?!!"

No one has a problem with people having "honor" rules on their own servers. The problem is they go to other servers like members of some religions and try to convert "the honorless" to their way of thinking by screaming and cursing about "honor" and "saber off = peace".

Prime
10-10-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
We all agree that the server operators make the rules, and players should follow them or go elsewhere, no one is disagreeing with you!

But the problem is the opposite of what you stated. Imagine if the owner in your example above goes to other people's homes and starts yelling "Take off your shoes you f**king Caucasian, have you no manners?!!!!!" "Shoe wearer!!!" "Shoe wearer!!!" "Admin, kick him, he's wearing shoes!!" "Dammit you f**king Caucasian, don't you know shoes off = civilized?!!"

No one has a problem with people having "honor" rules on their own servers. The problem is they go to other servers like members of some religions and try to convert "the honorless" to their way of thinking by screaming and cursing about "honor" and "saber off = peace". This is it in a nutshell.

Many players are trying to make the "honour" system universal on all servers. This, of course, is not going to work. The problem is only worsened by the overreaction of these players, using various offensive slurs. Flames lead to flames, and then honour and respect go right out the window...

Tsaya
10-10-2003, 06:40 PM
Rumor wrote:
oh we aren't whining. thats your job, remember?
Oh, I did? Mind telling me where? Can't? Too bad, maybe I didn't and you just made that one up?

You are either ignorant or you didn't understand my posts at all. I never said honor guys are right (as a matter of fact I dislike what they do as well and even stopped playing JO because of it). But unlike you I am not getting rude at someone who's trying to solve this problem rationally.
Some day you are going to understand that your reaction to this lamer problem isn't going to change anything. Or maybe you won't, but that's your problem.

Rumor wrote:
Game, Set, and Match. Thanks for playing.
Exactly. Let's talk again when you got to reason and want to discuss instead of just writing down your anger.

__________________________

traj wrote:
Isnt the point of the internet/cyberspace to get away with **** that you cant get away with in the real world?
No, that's definitely not the point. But all those users out there that believe this are what makes the internet the swamp it is. With everyone doing whatever he wants to (because he is not afraid of the consequences) no one cares about what others might think or feel. And that's the exact problem of all those lamers and "lamers" out there.

__________________________

Prime wrote:
The problem is only worsened by the overreaction of these players, using various offensive slurs. Flames lead to flames, and then honour and respect go right out the window...
I completely agree. If everyone would show just a tad of respect we wouldn't have most of the problems that bother us right now.

Luc Solar
10-10-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by gaara
If you enter a house (server) with the owner (admin)
that is asian and he asks you to take off your shoes
before entering (a rule admin has made), would you?
Does he have that right? I guess so its HIS house (server).
Why would you call him a Stupid (noob) for making such a rule?

You're like a guy who walks into a thread where people discuss how to cure cancer and (without reading a single post of the whole thread) say: "Idiots! Just like ummm..don't get cancer! There's the solution to your problem. Duh?!"

Please read the thread first. THEN post. :)

KaiaSowapit
10-10-2003, 09:33 PM
Amidala from Chop Shop:

Marry me??!! :)

Luc Solar
10-10-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
Amidala from Chop Shop:

Marry me??!! :)

Get lost dude! I saw her first! :mad:

Rad Blackrose
10-10-2003, 10:23 PM
Don't make me hate on both of you.

DarthCobra
10-10-2003, 11:18 PM
Nothing is lame!
Everything is allowed!

Ardent
10-11-2003, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Don't make me hate on both of you.


*hands Rad some haterade* Go to it, Rad!

FK | unnamed
10-11-2003, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by gaara

Third, no laming rule will continue to the end of jk time, if you dont like it, dont play ffa.

And people like me will continue to beat the crap out of, and make fun of, people who take that nonsense too seriously.

;)



traj wrote:
Isnt the point of the internet/cyberspace to get away with **** that you cant get away with in the real world?


Computers are only good for two things:

free porno on demand

video games

Rad Blackrose
10-11-2003, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
And people like me will continue to beat the crap out of, and make fun of, people who take that nonsense too seriously.


I've already had to deal with my fair share of ignorant twits tonight (thank god for FU/ORB, nominations for NotW are flowing like a keg of good beer), so I'm steamed out.

Regardless, the fact that a.) failure to maintain a higher composure/ettiquete as an admin, which results in the abuse of said commands, b.) people go beyond the set limits (in this case, it is individual servers which are not linked with one another) and infringe on other people's playstyles, and c.) we're tired of piss poor ******** like you who think they can recite every single answer from a self-help booklet on a daily basis, we prevail.

There happens to be a phrase in business, for every one positive compliment, there are 10 negative complaints.

Lets break that down into the JKII/JA servers for you.

For every server out there that is like Jah Warrior's, or another which UJ named, there are 10 others with no named thirteen year old pieces of **** who blow their load by abusing a modification to a game which practically acts as cheats with a password. And guess which ones you hear about more often then naught.

Props to Jah for running a great server, you give respect, and thus you receive it back. Same to the people whom uj complimented.

We need that kind of level here, not the egotistical bull**** pulled by these zealots who think that everyone has to conform to their way or die. At times, they are worse then the Catholic church during the Inquisition.

And until that day comes, I'll continue to knock heads with pride and fury against these bastards, thank you.

EDIT: That 2nd part wasn't targeted at you UJ, just so you know. Oops!

FK | unnamed
10-11-2003, 07:15 AM
funny pic for those of you who use ASE (look at the filters on the left).

scroll down a bit in the thread.

http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=104&threadid=87275

Rad Blackrose
10-11-2003, 07:31 AM
I wish.

Seriously.

CortoCG
10-11-2003, 07:34 AM
In my country "LAMER" means " TO LICK", go figure.

Kurgan
10-11-2003, 11:28 AM
Well, now that we've gotten all our anger out about the people calling us lamers for no reason, how about we move on to discuss more interesting things?

I think its time to give this a rest (for now).

Move along.... (sigh).. move along...