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JarJarBinks
10-08-2003, 02:36 PM
Here are some things I would like to see changed in siege.


1. Lower the heavy repeater secondary shot ROF (Rate Of Fire) and increase the damage done to the shooter if he fires too close to himself.

2. Lower the DEMP-2 secondary shot damage by about 10.

3. Lower the thermal detonator ROF (or should I say rate of throw), give a 1-2 second delay after you throw one before you can even start charging the thermal detonator again.

4. Remove the thermal detonators from the sith demo class on the korriban level, they get whored way too much. 8 out of 10 people on the sith team usually only use thermal detonators, it kind of ruins the level.

5. More customization. Instead of forcing players to use certain models and certain saber colors/hilts for certain classes, let them pick either blue, green or purple for saber colors on the rebel side, still leave only red for the imperials, and let players pick whatever hilt they want. Also players customize their model like in singleplayer, but instead of full customization I was thinking you pick the race you want to be, then the game assigns different outfits depending on the class, like a scout rodian would wear the lightweight (it looks lightweight atleast) outfit with with the short sleeves, and a rodian jedi would wear robes. Of course on hoth everyone would wear the hoth suit (tan for rebel, black for imperial). You could pick any color, but the main part of the robe/outfit (the part that always stays a certain color, nomatter what color you select in the customization screen) would change depending on what side you are of. If you are on the imperial side you would only wear dark/red colors, if you are on the rebel side you would wear brown/tan colors. Or if you just don't feel like customizing you could pick a preset model, like boba fett for imperial scout on desert, or a keldor for the rebel jedi on hoth, like the ones you use now.

6. Fix the buggy saber hit detection, if it can be fixed. I only accually hit 50% of the time my blade is halfway through my enemy, and this is with 100-130 ping.

7. Make the vehicles more like singleplayer. I noticed that moving the mouse dosen't accually turn me when I'm sitting still, I have to accelerate alittle to turn, while in singleplayer all I had to do was move my mouse and I turned inplace. This goes for the AT-ST too, if you see in the movies the AT-ST dosen't have to move it's legs to turn it's head alittle. Also whats with the AT-ST laser speed? I can see they might have done that for balance, but the AT-ST is incredibly easy to take down, if I'm not being annoyed by infantry I can easily dodge every single laser. Speed up the lasers a bit.

8. Make force absorb deflect push/pull.

9. Make it so Tech/Jedi Healer can see teammates health/force at all times as long as they are in view.

10. Make the Jedi/Sith on the Rebel/Imperial teams balanced with eachother. I don't see how it's fair to give the rebel jedi a double sided saber on hoth while the imperial sith gets a single. Make them equal. Same saber (Single-Dual-Staff), same level neutral force powers, same amount of light/dark force powers at the same level, same level of saber offense/defense/throw.

I think that's all for now, if I have any more later I'll post them.

Kurgan
10-08-2003, 05:31 PM
Personally I think the Siege maps are just fine how they are, but that's just me.

When the mapping tools come out people can make their own custom Siege scenarios (Raven will surely be giving us tutorials on how to make our own as well).

When you make your own custom scenarios you can setup whatever tweaks or rules you want! Cool huh?

1. Lower the heavy repeater secondary shot ROF (Rate Of Fire) and increase the damage done to the shooter if he fires too close to himself.

To nerf the Assault class? That makes defense much harder...


2. Lower the DEMP-2 secondary shot damage by about 10.


This nerfs the Tech class, which has to rely on this weapon primarily.


3. Lower the thermal detonator ROF (or should I say rate of throw), give a 1-2 second delay after you throw one before you can even start charging the thermal detonator again.


This would nerf the Demolitions class, forcing them to use mines more.


4. Remove the thermal detonators from the sith demo class on the korriban level, they get whored way too much. 8 out of 10 people on the sith team usually only use thermal detonators, it kind of ruins the level.

This would nerf the Dark Jedi Demo class, giving the Lightsiders an advantage. Also it would force the Dark Jedi Demo to "whore" mines instead of td's more.

Isn't the job of the Dark Jedi team to defend their base from the attacking Light Jedi? How are they supposed to do this without explosives? Sabering takes too long and if bombs are nerfed, this just makes it too easy for the attackers to whiz by with infinite health and win.


5. More customization. Instead of forcing players to use certain models and certain saber colors/hilts for certain classes, let them pick either blue, green or purple for saber colors on the rebel side, still leave only red for the imperials, and let players pick whatever hilt they want.

The idea I think was to make either side easily distinguishable (without having to rely on the "blue vs. red" staple from CTF/Team FFA). I would have no problem with having more skins to choose from and since we already have Jedi using multiple saber colors, that isn't too big a problem. It just forces you to use the team beacons more.


Edit. Customization


Agreed as an option. Not having to customize your character just saves time joining the game and makes class distinctions easier to recognize at a glance for either team, but this wouldn't necessarily break the game if it were an option.


6. Fix the buggy saber hit detection, if it can be fixed. I only accually hit 50% of the time my blade is halfway through my enemy, and this is with 100-130 ping.


Haven't noticed this, but it seems like people who have this problem don't see it just in Siege, but in any saber use in MP.


7. Make the vehicles more like singleplayer. I noticed that moving the mouse dosen't accually turn me when I'm sitting still, I have to accelerate alittle to turn, while in singleplayer all I had to do was move my mouse and I turned inplace. This goes for the AT-ST too, if you see in the movies the AT-ST dosen't have to move it's legs to turn it's head alittle. Also whats with the AT-ST laser speed? I can see they might have done that for balance, but the AT-ST is incredibly easy to take down, if I'm not being annoyed by infantry I can easily dodge every single laser. Speed up the lasers a bit.

I haven't played enough vehicles in SP to notice the subtle differences you're pointing out. If they're different it could have more to do with game balance and compensating for lag. The starship handling could be improved, and it might be fun to see the extra "swoop features" (like chopping the end off of one with a well placed saber strike or pushing somebody off their bike to steal it, etc) but so far they seem good enough. That doesn't mean they couldn't be improved. Just think of what impact it will have on the rest of the game though.


8. Make force absorb deflect push/pull.


It already does, so long as the Level of Force Absorb is equal to or higher than the level of push/pull and you have mana (or to put it simpler... Level 3 Absorb counters both powers completely).

Again, if your Jedi is only given Level 2 Absorb, its for game balance sake.


9. Make it so Tech/Jedi Healer can see teammates health/force at all times as long as they are in view.

Can't they already? Or can you only do it if you are "aiming" at them (to see their name)?

This could be done with Force Seeing (like in SP), that might be nice.

Although... in team games can't you already see the health of ALL teammates (in the upper right hand corner of the screen)? So long as you know what player name is associated with what model, this shouldn't be a problem.


10. Make the Jedi/Sith on the Rebel/Imperial teams balanced with eachother. I don't see how it's fair to give the rebel jedi a double sided saber on hoth while the imperial sith gets a single.

Because its not a team deathmatch, it's Siege, meaning the teams have different objectives.

And since when is a double sided saber more powerful than a single? (Just read any of the numerous arguments about this... clearly nobody can agree which is stronger, I favor the view that they are balanced and it really matters the skill of the user, not the choice of blade type).

The defenders have to be "stronger" in certain areas in order to cover the territory they have to defend. The attackers need powers in other areas in order to effectively attack. But of course tactics are still needed in any case, and that depends on the players and their team dynamic.


Make them equal. Same saber (Single-Dual-Staff), same level neutral force powers, same amount of light/dark force powers at the same level, same level of saber offense/defense/throw.

And if they had the same objectives that would matter more, but they don't, so I can see why they weren't made exactly equivalent.

Let's apply this to the non-Jedi as an example. Think of how much harder Hoth would be if the Rebels had their own AT-ST, their Assault guys could use EWEBs, etc?

You'd have to rework the whole scenario to make it "equal." You could do this actually.. but it'd end up being more akin to CTF (both sides having equal objectives) than to Siege as it is now (one team attacks other team defends, then they switch to try to beat the other team's best time).

Siege is not the same as CTF or Team FFA. It isn't about score, its about completing your objectives which either entails attacking all the key points or stopping the other team from attacking those points for a certain amount of time. Thus the teams need not be the same for it to be balanced.

king yoda
10-08-2003, 05:44 PM
there are no changes needed in siege (my opinion).

HiryuSwift
10-08-2003, 06:23 PM
4. Remove the thermal detonators from the sith demo class on the korriban level, they get whored way too much. 8 out of 10 people on the sith team usually only use thermal detonators, it kind of ruins the level.

That COULD be done as a mod (pretty easily), but I doubt anyone would like having that.

5. More customization. Instead of forcing players to use certain models and certain saber colors/hilts for certain classes, let them pick either blue, green or purple for saber colors on the rebel side, still leave only red for the imperials, and let players pick whatever hilt they want. Also players customize their model like in singleplayer, but instead of full customization I was thinking you pick the race you want to be, then the game assigns different outfits depending on the class, like a scout rodian would wear the lightweight (it looks lightweight atleast) outfit with with the short sleeves, and a rodian jedi would wear robes. Of course on hoth everyone would wear the hoth suit (tan for rebel, black for imperial). You could pick any color, but the main part of the robe/outfit (the part that always stays a certain color, nomatter what color you select in the customization screen) would change depending on what side you are of. If you are on the imperial side you would only wear dark/red colors, if you are on the rebel side you would wear brown/tan colors. Or if you just don't feel like customizing you could pick a preset model, like boba fett for imperial scout on desert, or a keldor for the rebel jedi on hoth, like the ones you use now.


Well I don't know about limitting models, but I was messing around with the Siege class files and it is possible to make it so that people can select their model.

Personally, I have no problem with any of it

ShadowCloak
10-08-2003, 06:24 PM
if u change what u think should shange the classses would be unbalanced

though i think there should be more maps:p

Blankie
10-08-2003, 06:56 PM
Almost all of that is completely unnecessary. It sounds alot like some weapon kills you alot, so rather than try to find a way around it, you just want to nerf it. I don't want every single gun/saber/force ability to SUCK in JA. Less nerfs, more options... not the other way around.

Thermal detonators are one of the few ways to actually kill jedi on Korriban. No siege player who's trying to beat the objectives is going to sit around and saber fight unless you leave yourself open to a roll stab or some other quick 1-hit kill... a good 90% of my kills on that map are from guys running into me while I kata a door or some structure. Without explosives, it's just a race to see who can speed/absorb run faster.

Customization of models is a huge no-no... it's required so you know what class your going up against. I don't want to see an imperial officer running at me with a pistol (and thinking he only has a sniper rifle as backup) only to have him pull a rocket launcher out and blast me. I also like being able to identify tech's from scouts from assaults on korriban. Model customization you wouldn't be able to prioritize your targets. Hilts and saber color I don't care about... but don't mess with the models :)

Blank

Kurgan
10-08-2003, 07:23 PM
To clarify my position... I'm actually IN FAVOR of changing the gameplay of Siege, HOWEVER, I am NOT in favor of changing Siege_Hoth, Siege_Korriban or Siege_Desert (as found in JA right now).

Other than fixing general game bugs (and adding true bot support) these maps are just fine.

Making new Siege maps entails making new scenarios and everything should be done to balance the classes to their team objectives and the map, so tweaking will be needed there. It would be possible to take the classes you want and pattern a scenario around it (or vice versa) so it would be fun.

But the Siege maps as they are in JA don't need to be patched.

majortom1969
10-11-2003, 12:22 AM
i wonder if this the right topic to ask this
but is any1 able to (with the tools when they come out)
convert the "Helms Deep" map , and make it a Siege scenario
i think its a very nice map to play siege
with allot modifications tho

just an idea lol

recon
10-11-2003, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by majortom1969
i wonder if this the right topic to ask this
but is any1 able to (with the tools when they come out)
convert the "Helms Deep" map , and make it a Siege scenario
i think its a very nice map to play siege
with allot modifications tho

just an idea lol

Porbaly best to ask in the JA Mapping... or request forum.

StormHammer
10-11-2003, 01:00 AM
I tend to agree with the concensus of opinion here. I don't think Siege as it stands needs to be changed. I've been having a great blast playing it, and because of the flexibility of the different classes, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, it makes for some very interesting scenarios. It truly does encourage team-work to win, and you soon start losing when your 'team-mates' start going solo.

Obviously wherever there are some obvious bugs, they should be fixed. One thing I did encounter today was during some map changes, some of the skins didn't change. So going from Hoth to Korriban, I spawned as a rebel (when I was a Dark Jedi), with a single bladed saber that I was holding like a saberstaff. Someone else spawned as a snowtrooper, and yet another as an Imperial Tech. It looked a bit odd on the Korriban map. Maybe this is just a glitch with that particular server, because it's the first time I encountered it. But it did keep happening with every map change.

But when it comes to how the game is balanced, I really can't see much of an issue. If you nerf some of the weapons, even slightly, it would tilt the gameplay and probably unbalance it, making it harder to achieve objectives.

My only disappointment at the moment is that only 3 scenarios shipped with the game. I'm enjoying it so much, I'd want to see at least twice or three times that many.

I truly believe that Siege is going to be a long-term MP prospect for this game. It has so much potential.