PDA

View Full Version : SWGB2 Wants and Hopes From An RMER


_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-08-2003, 08:17 PM
Thx 2 Hostility for reminding me to post this.

Ok first off a lil about me, I registered here early and had high hopes for swgb. Well my high hopes were achieved and so began a long love affair with this RTS. The community wasnt great but it was an extremely fun game. There wasnt Rated but we got by that. Well on the zone I was _MeGa_JoRt_ now DrUnK_MeGa aka _ThugMansion.
Now heres my wants for SWGB 2.....I hope you respond and reply to anything. Remember, IM an RMER that loves on RM

Anyways here goes:

Wants:
-RATED! Yes give the game RATED for multiplayer. If this game recieves a Rated format then there would be a substantial increase in interest and competiveness. More "hardcore" RMers would buy this game. RATED IS A MUST!
-MP Support. This game lack MP support. We were on the Zone.com which IMO was an excellent choice. Zone is so easy to use and fun. Who cares if most games get their own servers, Zone.com is the best and easiest to use. I support Zone.com for SWGB 2 and also LucasArts employee's that play and are regularly asking and checking if its all good
-CLEARLY Defined Race Bonuses. Seriously now, what difference was 5% Faster Carbon Mining? All the races were NOT unique but more like same mold and different UU. I think that you should give minimum 10% - 15% Resourcing gathering bonuses to give each civ a personality and NOT 5% less cost or more cost, 10% or 15%!! This is a MUST!


I actually love the setup this game already had. But some changes I would hope happens:

Jedi/Sith - I believe that Jedi should be EXPENSIVE and all players must buy a Padawan which will be MUCH stronger and harder to kill. And as the Padawan kills/converts, he gains "levels" and slowly with the more kills/converts achieved, he gets to Knight status which is stronger and more powerful in general and recieves more "force powers". And after more kills/converts, he gets Master which is more powerful and has more "powers"

What I mean by this is: Think about a Padawan. At this stage he only recieves Convert power. Once upgraded to Knight, he has Quicker Convert power, Self Healing/Ability To Heal other Units, & Mind Trick, which for approx say 15-20seconds, renders him invisible AS he attacks. Of course it can only be used like once a minute or so. Ill leave the numbers to LA. And then at Master level, he gets Quicker Convert,Stronger Mind Trick,Quickker Self Healing and Other Unit Healing AND Protect Ability, which gives the Master a +5 or so armour bonus for about 30seconds and has a recharge rate much slow like 1minute or so.

That in a sense MAKES a much more Deep Strategy. Like by history, Jedi/Sith couldnt exactly be massed vs each other. The progressed and this adds a cool feeling. So you CANT get your jedi/sith killed, unless ur willing to pay a lot for many of them. Unlimited Jedi/Sith

Bounties

I think they should not be made in the Fortress. Bounties should be available early and at a lower cost. Heres my idea: Bounties made at the SpacePort which if you think about it, it makes clear sense as you hire them there. They are available at T2 when the port is made but in T2 they are much weaker, you can think about 3 Troopers = 1 Bounty HP wise but also costs 3x amount of a trooper which is like (~75food, ~85wood) Approx. So you think no point in making them if they are 3x cost and 3x HP of a trooper? Well thier bonus is as it is, Good vs Jedi/Sith which is vital since Jedi/Sith which a padawan will be available in T2, are uber strong since they cost much and can be very powerful later on. But in T3 they can be upgrade to a Master Bounty Hunter which is Stronger then normal bounty then into an Elite Bounty in T4 whihc is stronger. Making a bounty at a port makes a LOT of sense


Tech Level Units

I think their should be MUCH MORE variables.

T1 - Units available:

~ Trooper Recruit (5 attack, 3 range) BUT LOSE THE SPEED DEFICIENCY, Let there be T1 rushes so make them same speed as a trooper
~ Mounty (I like these, keep them the same)
~ Anti-Trooper Mercenary Unit. Make these slower and they are only good vs normal troopers. Resistent to Laser Fire but weak to a melee hit.

With these 3 units you get a circle - Mounty beats Anti-Trooper, AntiTrooper beats Trooper, Trooper beats Mounty


T2 - Units available:

Trooper Center:
~ Trooper upgraded
~ Mounty upgraded
~ Grenade Trooper - Less expensive and quicker shot rate but NO Splash damage
~ Anti-Air Trooper
~ Anti Trooper Mercenary - Counters Trooper and AA Trooper
~ Bounty (Spaceport) 3x HP and 3x Cost of Trooper, Bonus vs Jedi/Sith AND buildings (They are mercenaries and take various jobs, some may be needed to bomb a building :P) + with a building effectiveness it would at least make them a usable unit other then jedi counter.
~ Jedi/Sith Padawan (Temple) - Expensive but powerful, can be later upgraded to knight and then master
~ Scout (Mech Factory) MUCH Faster Shot Rate, make this unit combat ready, would add more strategy, No real bonus vs anything, just some good backup shooter.


T3 - Units Available:

~ Hvy Trooper upgraded
~ Mounty upgraded
~ Hvy Grenade Trooper upgrade to give splash damage
~ Hvy Anti-Air Trooper upgraded
~ Anti Trooper Mercenary - Once Hvy Trooper comes I think this unit should have the option of Fortify which allows him to plant himself down with a good few resources and act as a "tower" and attack anything within range
~ Elite Bounty (Port) - stronger hp and attack wise +more % bonus
~ Jedi/Sith Padawan (temple) - if 2 were not already made you can still make padawan but you still must kill/convert to upgrade to knight or master
~ Scout - SHOULD be given upgrade for more attack and HP and let this be a combat fighter

~ Strike Mech - nice as is
~ Mech Destroyer - Mech Destroyers in SWGB were way to powerful for their relative cheap cost. If they were to stay the same I would love to have a +10nova charge with the same food/wood it costs meaning it would be harder for a normal player to mass them and let them fight because face it, mech destroyers are the #1 unit in this game because of their armor/hp and they take out mechs and hvy weapons with ease (not ARTILLERY).
~ Melee Mech Unit? Perhaps good vs something? Thats a Toss Up

~ Fighter -
~ Bomber -
~ Transport -

Hvy Weapons
-Pummel
-AA Mobile
-Artillery - Should cost more nova and also should move slower. Artillery is the second most devastating unit in swgb and its simple to plod art/md and a few aa/bounty and GG u win. Artillery kills just about anything save for air/melee and Assault mechs. Make it slower would slow advancement and let melee kill them quicker which is great because many people in game hardly put support units to protect them. They just send 10-15artillery and let them go gung ho which takes little skill.

Fort Units:
-UU
-New Unit? who knows

T4

~ Repeater Trooper upgraded
~ Mounty upgraded
~ Hvy Grenade Trooper
~ Hvy Anti-Air Trooper
~ Anti Trooper Unit - Same as T3 one, a defense Tower perhaps
~ Master Bounty (Port) - stronger hp and attack wise +more % bonus
~ Jedi/Sith Padawan (temple) - if 2 were not already made you can still make padawan but you still must kill/convert to upgrade to knight or master
~ Scout -

~ Strike Mech - upgrade
~ Mech Destroyer - upgrade
~ New Mech Unit - i was thinking this should be a melee anti-hvy weapons or something
~ Assault Mech - Make them more powerful. They are underused and used only for show. If you want ANY effectiveness then you have to get about 6-10 together. Cheaper costs woudlnt hurt

~ Fighter - Advanced Fighter
~ Bomber - Advanced
~ Transport -

Hvy Weapons
-Hvy Pummel - upraded
-Hvy AA Mobile - upgraded
-Hvy Artillery - upgraded

Fort Units
- UU
- Cannon
- Air Cruiser

Also For Unique Units for Civs, NOT ALL should be made in the Fortress, I think for such instances some should be made for their specific buildings like DarkTrooper made in Troop Center, Air Speeder in Airbase and ALSO MAKE MORE UNIQUE UNITS so that it adds more flavour into the game. Also I would love seeing around 5-6 unique units.

Something that would be nice is UNIQUENESS. Like a battledroid is easy to make so make them CHEAPER but perhaps a little less HP because they are easy to kill. Rebel trooper could be faster but lower attack. So on and so on. This would give flavour to units and have a point to doing a certain strategy with a certain civ.

Now these are my changes I want for units and additions. My Race changes and Buildings Changes will be coming soon when i edit this to add them. Race changes will include all 6 races +ill add ideas for the unknown races

Comments? Questions? Queries?

lukeiamyourdad
10-08-2003, 08:48 PM
Ok.

Well you claim you want uniqueness but all I can see is generic stuff.

I believe that a totally unique set would be the way to go(although a tad hard to balance).

DarthMuffin
10-08-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
I believe that a totally unique set would be the way to go(although a tad hard to balance).

Ah!!! Now you're talking!!!

*Dreams about 4 totally unique civs*

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-08-2003, 11:46 PM
Im guessing you didnt read the bottom part of my post.

Cost factors/hp/attack/armor/speed/fire rate......can all be changed to make them unique.

Give a unit faster speed but less armor or hp

Make a unit cost less but less attack.

Admiral Vostok
10-09-2003, 01:59 AM
Well it's still too similar to the current game for my liking. With a second Expansion Pack all that stuff could be added to SWGB1.

Most of us here are going for totally unique civs, by that we don't mean each unit has different stats from civ to cv, but that each civ has different [i]units[i]. For example, saying everyone has a Strike Mech and Mech Destroyer, is a generic idea, even if their stats are different from civ to civ. But having different numbers and varieties of Mech-type units from civ to civ, that don't necessarily fall into the rigid categories of Strike Mech/Mech Destroyer, is more of a unique idea.

By the way, it was good of you to do the self-introduction thing. It helps us get a feeling for who you are and where you're coming from.

Sithmaster_821
10-09-2003, 02:19 AM
I agree whole heartedly with your MP complaints. I am (...er...was) an active RMer on the zone, and was completely disenfranchised by not only the lack of rated games and strong MP support, but also by the apathy of the Zone for the game, and the lack of policing on their part, either keeping scenerio players in their rooms or punishing people who broke rules/were repeatedly offensive.

[brown nosing] However, DMUK was and is a brilliant Member Plus, and stands head and shoulders above all the Zone [/brown nosing]

But I also agree with my fellow forumers that a dramatic revamp of the game, keeping the core elements and differeniating the rest as well as the inclusion of less but completely unique civs (a la AoM or any Blizzard game), would be far preferable to a essentially generic civ set with multiple bonuses to the generic units that you offered.

Frozted_MM's
10-09-2003, 04:30 AM
True all unique sets r very hard to balance especially when the developers dont really test the game that well to balance until people start complaining about it after the release then they patch it OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

mega's idea is good but the graphics should be enhanced to make some cool explosion and stuff maybe air crashing to the ground when killed?

Darth Windu
10-09-2003, 06:30 AM
I agree that there needs to more more uniqueness in a possible SWGB2.

Mega - with your idea for Jedi/Sith, i actually already have that in my idea.
Also, i never play online, so what is a RATED game?

saberhagen
10-09-2003, 10:53 AM
Mega, you're not a secret fort blood/jedi fest player are you? I think it's time you came out of the closet! ;)

lukeiamyourdad
10-09-2003, 08:14 PM
Windu- Rated games means that, let's say the Zone, keeps a record of your victory and losses. It can be fun but also very sad for newbies who get bashed by a-holes who just need self-esteem so much they go around showing off their great ratings.
Anyway, it does encourage multiplayer and I think it could be handle correctly.

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-09-2003, 08:17 PM
lol before I played RM i was in a Fortblood clan SHaDoWS.....

anyways Rated is when you play games and win or lose, you get pts or lose pts and it depends on what rating the opponent is.

So say your rating is 1800 and your vs another 1800 compared to 1800vs1600....If the 1800 wins on both sides he gets more pts from the other 1800 he faced a nd recieves little from the 1600 whereas if the 1600 player wins vs the 1800, he recieves a lot of pts.

Uniqueness can be implemented along the lines of the movie ala Rebels are not a strong infantry but are great hit and run so speed bonus would be great.

Also Wookies like today's game would have infantry that have strong armor cuz they are strong muthas...

and so on...

Admiral Vostok
10-10-2003, 12:26 AM
But the sort of uniqueness I'm talking about is a bit more than that. Troopers aren't such a good example for uniqueness because every civ has them. But if you look at mechs there are great opportunities. For example:

The Naboo's mechs are very fast but lightly armoured. They have only two mechs: the Flash Speeder and the Gian Speeder. Neither is really a "Strike Mech" or "Mech Destroyer", though the Gian Speeder is good vs Mechs.

The Confederacy on the other hand has a wide variety of mechs. The Dwarf Spider Droid is very much like a "Strike Mech" and the Homing Spider Droid is very much like a "Mech Destroyer", yet the Sonic Cannon (short-ranged anti-building artillery) and the Hailfire Droid (speedy rocket-armed unit) are unlike any other civ's mechs, and the CA Tank, while it resembles an Assault Mech, is actually somewhat faster and equipped more for close range firefights.

This is the best way to introduce uniqueness, not just through stat changes within rigid generic unit types.

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-11-2003, 07:54 AM
your swaying to much to the movie and causing imbalances...

you have to realize there MUST be a counter for every unit for every civ otherwise its overpowered


:::Neither is really a "Strike Mech" or "Mech Destroyer", though the Gian Speeder is good vs Mechs.:::

Then what would they fire? What type of firing? What bonuses? Balance issues again.
:vader:

Frozted_MM's
10-11-2003, 07:58 AM
I agree if u gonna make a template I would't mind knowing the counters,bonues and stuff like that I don't want a game where people pick the one civ all the time cause it ownz the rest.

Darth Windu
10-11-2003, 08:38 AM
Mega - so you're saying that everything has to be generic to make sure no one civ is overpowered?

The movies are a great starting point, and from those movies we can create well-balanced and diverse civ's with unique units.

saberhagen
10-11-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
The movies are a great starting point, and from those movies we can create well-balanced and diverse civ's with unique units.

Yes, they did that with SWGB1, but they also had to invent lots of new units that weren't even in EU, and make some units work differently from the way they did in the films, otherwise it wouldn't have been very well balanced.

lukeiamyourdad
10-11-2003, 07:21 PM
Not exactly, the problem with using the rigid AoK engine was not being able to do anything else then generic sets.

Darth Windu
10-12-2003, 02:53 AM
Correct. As luke said, the problem with SWGB wasnt with trying to use canon units, but the engine with which the dev's were working.

In my idea, there are very few made-up units, although the Wokkiee's are heavy with them due to the fact we see one wokkiee weapon in the movies. Having said that, i believe that the units i have put in my idea are both useful and well balanced.

To anyone out there who disagrees, make some suggestions.

Admiral Vostok
10-12-2003, 06:36 AM
Windu: Well you've got the double E in Wookiee going well, and I commend you, though you may want to take a look at your K's and O's ;)

Anyway, there are a few things Mega and Saberhagen should understand: the reason I've set up the class system is so you can tell what a unit will be good against and what easily counters it. The exact same idea was used in Age of Mythology. Each of the three super-civs in AoM have completely unique units, yet each unique unit is classed as Worker, Infantry, Archer, Cavalry, Ship, Hero, Heavy Weapon or Myth Unit. Using this classification you can work out what to counter it with. This is the same as mine, although in mine the classes are Worker, Trooper, Jedi/Sith, Bounty Hunter, Mech, Aircraft, Ship.

And another thing: I hope you read my disclaimer here (http://www.hyperjump.net/galaxy/swgb2/Outlines.html). What I'm saying is that I don't go into the detail of what type of firing, what to counter, etc, because that will all need to be balanced in when the game design is put into a playable format. This is when the balancing is done, not in the low level design I'm doing. Since I'm obviously not going so far as to write any code, no fine balancing will be done at all. Do you really think they decide all the unit costs and exact stats before writing any code?

Frozted_MM's
10-12-2003, 08:46 AM
It doesn't really matter what you make the cost, build time or available tech if you over power a unit people will mass it like crazy so try to think what counters what when continuing these templates.

Darth Windu
10-12-2003, 10:44 AM
Vostok - yeah, excuse the poor spelling, sometimes i just write too fast...

Admiral Vostok
10-12-2003, 11:02 AM
Frozted - I already have thought what counters what, as I detailed in my previous post, and no single unit is "over-powered".

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-12-2003, 10:03 PM
ok I didnt mean to have generic things BUT there must be a certain class per each.

Like a Trooper is the base army for all civs....all civs have them.

Now how could we make them less generic?

-TF battledroids have LESS HP but they cost less and can be mass produced cheaply.
-Rebel troopers are great hit and run fighters and therefore have increased speed to accomodate
-Wookies are big, strong so they would have more base hp but they would cost more food cuz a wookie needs his food.
-Gungan trooper would gain +1 armor to start off because they have shields BUT they would move slower then most other troopers.

((Positive - Negative))

I know a bit about star wars having watched all the movies and owning all of them. But I dont know any Expanded Universe crap.

Cept Dash Render.....I have Shadows Of Empire game for N64....sucked but meh.

lukeiamyourdad
10-13-2003, 01:15 AM
Yes indeed that is inevitable.

I had the idea of giving the Wookiee "Basic" Trooper a melee attack instead of a standard ranged one. It'll create diversity.

Admiral Vostok
10-13-2003, 02:27 AM
Luke's Dad - I also had that idea... or stole it off you, can't remember which... and in addition I was thinking of making this melee trooper, which would be fairly weak, the Worker for the Wookiee civ. Much like those Undead guys from WC3 whose name I can't remember...

Mega - Agreed. Those are all good ideas. However I was going to split the Gungan Troopers into three types: the standard Militiagung, Heavy Militagung and the Sheild Bearer, all buildable separately. The Militiagung is armed with a basic sling, and is pretty average, except with slightly higher HP to represent the thick skin and resiliant bone structure they have. The Heavy Militiagung is much the same, except they hurl those big boomas like the one Jar Jar tried to hurl but fell over. They have a slower rate of fire but stronger attack, and are good vs Mechs. The Sheild Bearer has no attack, but very high armour, and enemies firing at Gungans will not hit any Infantry units behind the Sheild Bearers until the Sheild Bearers are dead.

lukeiamyourdad
10-13-2003, 02:35 AM
Did you read my mind about shield bearers?!:p

Might I suggest, that shield bearer be used in tandem with other troopers only, like they need to be in formation to shield their allies. If not it makes no sense to have some shield bearer running around somehow taking the shots...

Frozted_MM's
10-13-2003, 03:45 AM
They should be in front of the line of a formation of troops maybe they should go straight to when moving along with a group of units so they can deflect shots. Maybe available the level when mechs are made so the gungan troops aint over powered in the early stages. Should be weak vs mechs cause of there powerful blasts.

lukeiamyourdad
10-13-2003, 03:56 AM
Well, I was thinking that the main downside to the shield bearer formation would be its big weakness against any area-of-effect attack. Since they would be in close formation, a simple blast from artillery or a little strafing run by a fighter can reduce the tight formation to a big bunch of corpses.


EDIT: This sounds stupid, but i'm glad it happened here, in the forum of my beginnings. I HAVE POSTED MY 2000th POST!

WHOOHOO!

Sithmaster_821
10-13-2003, 03:47 PM
I made my templates with balance in the forefront. I made sure that every civ had an effective counter in every age, and mentally tested out combos and the like to ensure that one civ wasn't particularlly weak in a certain area.

Admiral Vostok
10-14-2003, 12:13 AM
Sith - well I've done that to an extent of course but I make no claim that they are totally balanced at all.

Shield Bearers - all those suggestions are pretty much what I had in mind.

Luke's Dad - congrats on the post.

_IVIeGaTI2oN_
10-20-2003, 08:39 PM
Making Wookie basic trooper a melee unit would be decent but they would need a range "trooper firing" thing to compete.

Perhaps one of the many Unique Units that this time, WONT be created at the fortress and will be available early.

Give em high blast armor and they should be great.

Darth Windu
10-21-2003, 10:11 AM
Mega - that's pretty much how the troopers work out in my idea, and like Vostok i have made sure that no single unit is overpowered. An example would be, say the AT-AT. Although very heavily armoured with powerful weapons, it is defenseless in its rear arc, and turns around very slowly. In addition, it is very expensive and takes quite a while to build.