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SRF_Vader
10-09-2003, 05:48 AM
Im getting sick of people bitching when they get kicked for Chat Killing or Saber Down killing. If the server says dont do it than dont f'n do it, or else you have no right to bitch what-so-ever. Now ill admit some cases are on servers with no rules. But trust me when i say ALOT of this happens on servers WITH rules, and often happens with people with no respect to the person on the other end. The Honor Code isnt for Role Playing or any crap like that, its for respect to the real people playing this game, like bowing for example, in duel games it is often used to signle you are ready to fight. Chat killing is lame, i dont see how hard it is to avoid killing someone with a chat bubble unless they are in your way. Not 1 reason that you cant avoid them.

If you dont like the server, dont join. Become part of the solution. I've snapped and have had enough of the bitching, Most server rules are very simple, so lets stick with them, or dont bitch when you get kicked and in essence spam these boards with useless hypocrytic post.

Nuff said. Im done

Rad Blackrose
10-09-2003, 06:07 AM
Cry more?

No, seriously, you bloody pissants have had practically all of JO to have your honor and lamer garbage. A game with melee dynamics in mind does not automatically make it "honorable" to bow and crap like that.

Mildly hypocritical that you're named Vader and stand for "honor," yet he struck down a Jedi with his saber down. Did Obi-Wan come back in the blue glowy and tell Vader how much of a "****ing lamzorz" he is? "My saber was down, saber down = peaze! keke lar!~"

You want to know what respect is? Getting your ass handed to you, then proceeding not to bitch about it, acknowledging it happened, and getting on with the game. Respect is for knowing who is above you. Respect is complementing for beautiful/unusual kills and styles. Respect is something people learn from each other due to a mixture of heavy competition, and minute socialization.

Respect is NOT bowing before duels.

Respect is NOT pitching a bitch at someone who's playing the game.

Respect is NOT a Quake 3 engine IRC server.

Respect is EARNED, not handed out like free samples at Sam's Club.

So once again, I recite the words made famous on the VNBoards, Camelotvault section.

Cry more.

Kurgan
10-09-2003, 06:37 AM
The trouble is, sadly a lot of public servers that have voting enable mob rule mentality.


Group of players decide at the spur of the moment to kick you (for whatever reason) and you're voted off (usually just because you were winning).


Admin kicks you for breaking a rule he never told you about before or that he's not even following himself...


That's what people are upset about. If a server has rules and they tell you about them and you break them ANYWAY.. then yes, it is your own fault.

Even if the admin is a lamer and n00b, at least he warned you.

The voting mob thing makes me mad though, its enough to make a person want to disable voting entirely.

FK | unnamed
10-09-2003, 06:40 AM
hey those free sausage samples at Sam's club rule.


but yeah if it is their server, they do have the final say in what goes down.

Things is, when you open it up and invite the public to join by making it a public server be ready for a shock, not all people will look at things like you do.

And if it is your right to kick them, why then is it not their right to make fun of you for it in public?

I mean if a restaurant has crappy food or bad service, yes people can “choose not to go there” but they also can and do give the place bad reviews so others do not waste their time.

idontlikegeorge
10-09-2003, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Cry more?

No, seriously, you bloody pissants have had practically all of JO to have your honor and lamer garbage. A game with melee dynamics in mind does not automatically make it "honorable" to bow and crap like that.

Mildly hypocritical that you're named Vader and stand for "honor," yet he struck down a Jedi with his saber down. Did Obi-Wan come back in the blue glowy and tell Vader how much of a "****ing lamzorz" he is? "My saber was down, saber down = peaze! keke lar!~"

Cry more.



That wasn't the point. The point was, servers have rules, you break them, you get kicked. Don't bitch about it.

If you don't like a server that has the "honor code" crap or doesn't have the honor crap - or whatever, and you get kicked for disobeying the rules - don't bitch about it. That's all he is trying to say. Who cares if he happens to be mentioning on behalf of an "honor code" system - that is not the point.

Being such an expert on respect, as you seem to be, you obviously don't have enough extra for the thread starter. You were essentially scolding him for crying, when in fact your whole post is nothing but a big bitch in itself.

idontlikegeorge
10-09-2003, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
And if it is your right to kick them, why then is it not their right to make fun of you for it in public?


Technically, that's slander. And nobody forced you to join someone's private server. :p

Seriously, looking at this thread, I'm glad I don't play Jedi multiplayer. :nut:

Kurgan
10-09-2003, 07:02 AM
Well let's use an analogy to make this easier.

Let's say you put up a sign that says "Open House - Free Food Everyone Welcome" in front of your house and open your door.


A bunch of people come in your home. As they enter you say "all guests must remove their shoes before entering so as not to get my carpet full of dirt."

Some guy comes in and walks all over the carpet with his boots.

Home owner tells him to leave.



It's HIS house, HE gets to decide who can use HIS stuff.

If you own the server, you're paying for the bandwidth, you're using your time, etc. and you get to decide what goes on.

Now lets look at that example.

Let's say the guy walks all over the carpet. The Home owner tells him he's breaking the rules.

He could do so in a nice way "Sir, I may have forgotten to tell you, but I want everyone to take off their shoes before entering so as not to get the carpet dirty, here let me take those for you... I'll clean this up I'm sure you just didn't hear me."

Or he could be a major jerk about it "YOU STUPID SON OF A *****!!! DO YOU HAVE **** FOR BRAINS??? Get the **** out of my house NOW you **** ******!!!" (tosses guy out bodily and slams door in his face)

Now if he hurt the guy, maybe he could get sued, but the point is... he could have reacted better, he just didn't.

The guy who got thrown out can call the guy an ******* for over-reacting too (and never invite him to HIS house).

But he had the right to ditch the guy regardless.

It's your rights vs. their's, but its always expected that a guest will treat a host with respect first, at least that's how I was taught growing up.

=========================================

Seriously, looking at this thread, I'm glad I don't play Jedi multiplayer.

You're missing out man. ; )

We go on about bad behavior in the community, but the truth is.... EVERY online community is like that. The world is full of people good and bad, and everywhere in between. Everybody knows that on the internet there are all kinds of losers and mean people, but there are also lots of nice, helpful and mature people as well.

The same goes for games. If you avoid JA MP because of lamers, losers or jerks, you'll have to avoid all online games, because you won't find a single living community that is 100% devoid of them.

We exaggerate and discuss it in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, some people will see it and think twice before they act like a jerk, or at least spread the word that that sort of thing isn't tolerated. It also helps to vent our frustrations if we had a bad day of joining servers with jerks on them.

My point in my example is that the homeowner (the server admin) can be RIGHT and within his RIGHTS and still be a jerk. As a guest you're expected to respect his wishes, because its his property. That's just how it is.

Or would you say that the guy who got thrown out has a right to break back into the first guy's house and beat him senseless (much as he might want to or fantasize about doing so, I think most people would consider that psychotic behavior if he actually did).

FK | unnamed
10-09-2003, 07:26 AM
It's your rights vs. their's, but its always expected that a guest will treat a host with respect first, at least that's how I was taught growing up.


he's right on the $ with that one.

There is a clan called <A.F.C> out there in JK2 and JA.

They have the typical honor rules and such but when people break them, they treat you like an adult and inform you of the rules, what happens when you break them and they ask you to comply or split, but it is all done in an adult manner.


No "OMG YOU LAMER SON OF A <bleep>"

No verbal abuse, no rcon abuse, no one on some silly little "I'm a real life Jedi master!" power trip.

Their servers are some of the few "honor code" places where I will actually obey the rules and will not "lame people".

While I still think those rules are silly, when I play on their servers I make sure I always show them the same respect they have shown me.

The funny thing is, if you "honor" types would actually act like adults and inform/enforce people of rules in a way that shows respect, you may just get it from players in return.

But the truth is, most "honor" people are some of the biggest <bleep>holes in this game.

idontlikegeorge
10-09-2003, 08:17 AM
"You're missing out man. ; )

We go on about bad behavior in the community, but the truth is.... EVERY online community is like that."

Heh, I know all about communities with any games I like. Played Day of Defeat since it's first day beta, played Counter-Strike back in the early betas, and even in smaller communities, like Natural Selection and Operation Flashpoint, there are asshats.

I don't avoid Outcast/Academy multiplayer because of the community, it's because of the game mechanics. I could not stand what they did in the 1.03 patch. And before anyone flames me about that, I very rarely used red stance, and didn't even know how to use DFA.

Anyway, I ate 1.02 up. Atleast the saber duels; deathmatch, and the type of CTF in JO is not my cup of tea - I feel I outgrew that gamestyle along time ago. Anyway, I played alot of 1.02 MP, and I don't remember any stupid honor code garbage. We just played the damn game.

Oh, and we didn't have any stupid bubble over our heads when typing. That's another dumb thing added in. It's a game, not a chat room. If I'm chatting in DoD and I get a bayonet in the back or a bullet in the head, it's my own damn fault.

I don't care about an honor code, or a lack of an honor code, but I agree with the topic title.


Sure, if honor code wussies are immature children about a "lamer" on their servers, let them be. Bitching about them bitching about you doesn't do ANYONE any good.


As usual, Kurgan is right. I think perhaps the length of some of his wisdom is what prevents alot of morons from actually grasping it. :p

Luc Solar
10-09-2003, 09:01 AM
Every day someone pops in and says: "why don't you just go to another server" without realizing at all what people are complaining about.

Nobody is saying that you have no right to have rules on your own server. That is not the issue.

Issue 1) Most admins are pricks who use "rules" as an excuse to abuse other players

Issue 2) Players (not the admin) try to enfore their way of playing upon others. They think their Jedi Honour is universal

Issue 3) You are not allowed to FFA on FFA servers. Hell - You're not even allowed to FFA on your own FFA server!

So don't tell me to "go to another server". That does not work. And even if it did once or twice after 3 hours of trying miraculously result in me getting to do my FFA'ing, it's not the cure to the problem. And please tell that the next guy who is about to explain to me that I should simpy "find another server".

The solution is simple: people must A) understand what FFA stands for and B) realize that there are no "rules" in this game.

That's all. That's all it would take to end the whining.

And I agree 100% with what Rad said about respecting people. You don't have to be a jerk to strangers, but why the hell should anyone "honour" or "respect" total strangers just because they happen to log on to the same server? You get respect from me by sniping me in mid-air, not by walking around saber down tapping crouch every now and then. Earn it, don't demand it.

EDIT.

Issue 4) Certain rules are bad and cause nothing but whining. The sensibility of these rules can and should be discussed. Saber down = peace is a good example. I'd like to see someone defend that rule, because from what I've experienced, it has ruined most FFA servers. Maybe I'm wrong? Prove it. :)

This doesn't mean that an admin does not have the right to enforce any rule he wants to. Whether or not it is wise to enforce certain rules is the question. Enforce a stupid rule and you are stupid. It's that simple.

Master William
10-09-2003, 09:41 AM
I don't like players who are there only to make your gaming experience ****.

Remember the JK2 manual?

''Do not ruin other players gaming experience online''

The honor side and laming side are doing that to each other.

I do agree with the ''honor'' side though, since I don't like having a UT2003 version of this game.

My opinion

Luc Solar
10-09-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Master William
Remember the JK2 manual?

''Do not ruin other players gaming experience online''

The honor side and laming side are doing that to each other.

I do agree with the ''honor'' side though, since I don't like having a UT2003 version of this game.


The thing is: Honour codes only exist in your head. They're not a part of the game. They're something you are trying to ADD to the game creating this FPS-turned-into-a-chatroom people are complaining about.

Quotes from the manual:

staying put invites death.

>> keep moving or you'll get killed. Standing around saber down gets you killed.

even the best bot's AI can't compare to the unpredictable and infinitely adaptable nature of real people

>> Real people don't always do what you'd like them to do. They might attack without bowing. They might not follow your code of conduct and push you off the ledge instead of challenging to a duel.

Adjust your playing style and and force powers to the game

>> If you don't adjust you will be killed. If you try to attack me with nothing but a saber I will rocket you. If you don't use absorb, I will zap you with lightning. There is no "one and only honourable style". Use everything you got. Adjust your strategy.

Try to conduct yourself in a non-offensive manner

Calling me a f-king noob and a lamer isn't offensive? Kicking and banning people isn't offensive? Sleeping and slapping and humiliating people via admin commands isn't offensive? Not if they're "lamers", right?

toggle the lightsaber off to silence it while sneaking around

>> See? Putting your saber down can be useful if you want to surprise the enemy. And when using lightning you do more damage. It does not mention anything about "do not attack anyone who is saber down because that is wrong". I wonder why they didn't mention that?? It is such an important part of the game, is it not?

Free for all: Best summed up as every person for him or herselves, players score points by eliminating other players, and no-one can be considered an ally.

WHOA!!? How about that?! Did the manual really say such a thing? It didn't mention a word about "Keep the pad cleared, it is for duelz only!" :rolleyes:

I'm sick and tired of listening to myself ranting on and on about this. Bottom line is that you honour-folks are not playing this game the way it was meant to be played. You are trying to turn it into something else and you curse and bitch to anyone who want to PLAY making it impossible for them to enjoy a game they bought. You are wrong. We are right. Stop messing this game up.

king yoda
10-09-2003, 12:28 PM
good explained.

Master William
10-09-2003, 01:34 PM
I don't call it honor code, I don't call it anything.
I just called it honor code because you are.

I don't see at this all 'saber off = peace' as a big rule or something, it's just something people learned to adapt to.

And Luc, there's no need in making huge posts every time you post about laming, we know you dislike it.

It simply won't ever go away, it will always excist!
Try to live with it... I guess.
I think you will find it more fun when you can have more space in the game.
That feels better than running around 24/7 and murdering, (ok I do that, but I don't kill people with saber off or typing because it will likely get me hated) and not letting people breath.

Sorry, but... I don't recall this being originally developed like UT2003...

Maybe it was supposed to be like this, I don't know, but as you know, RavenGames tend to get their games polished by the players :D

EDIT: I never call people noob or stuff like that just because they kill me when my saber is off, I just smash my computer table, and then I kill them.
So, if you play with me, you won't be having any problems, because I can adapt to ''honor codes'' or just the normal JA/JK2 you are referring to.

Prime
10-09-2003, 02:56 PM
If the rules are clearly stated when you log onto a server, they I try and follow them. But often they are not, so it is their own fault if people come and do whatever they want.

But like Luc said these things are abused. Most servers don't have any mention of rules when you log in. I see people running around with their saber off and uppercutting people, or turning their saber off right in the middle of a fight and then bitching about saber down = peace. Some people start chatting in the middle of your swing and get bitter. If people are off to the side on a server with clearly stated rules then they can chat and emote all they want, but otherwise, I'll be trying to mow them down like grass, pretending I was actually in a FFA game.

Bowing before duels, okay, whatever, I don't have a problem with that. But what the hell is up with saber down = peace?? What is the point of that? What purpose does it serve? Can someone who believes in it please tell me what it is really for? Why don't you want to play the game?

Do those who demand bowing and saber off = peace not see the irony of trying to show respect my tilting a model's head forward and then shouting racist and homophobe remarks when they lose?

Damn this artificial foolishness is annoying.
[/rant]

GEEZus
10-09-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by SRF_Vader
Im getting sick of people bitching when they get kicked for Chat Killing or Saber Down killing. If the server says dont do it than dont f'n do it, or else you have no right to bitch what-so-ever. Now ill admit some cases are on servers with no rules. But trust me when i say ALOT of this happens on servers WITH rules, and often happens with people with no respect to the person on the other end. The Honor Code isnt for Role Playing or any crap like that, its for respect to the real people playing this game, like bowing for example, in duel games it is often used to signle you are ready to fight. Chat killing is lame, i dont see how hard it is to avoid killing someone with a chat bubble unless they are in your way. Not 1 reason that you cant avoid them.

If you dont like the server, dont join. Become part of the solution. I've snapped and have had enough of the bitching, Most server rules are very simple, so lets stick with them, or dont bitch when you get kicked and in essence spam these boards with useless hypocrytic post.

Nuff said. Im done

Here is the answer to all of your grief:
*SPOILER OMG!!!1!!!1!*




























http://images.ebgames.com/ebx_assets/product_images/220541.jpg

Master William
10-09-2003, 03:26 PM
LOL

|GG|Carl
10-09-2003, 04:15 PM
On my server, I don't have voting turned on, which means only I can kick people. I only kick guys if they are very annoying(or causes lag). But I almost never do. In fact, I've never done it in JA(a few times in JO).

If someone doesn't like to be "chat killed" by someone else, nothing stops him to quit by himself.

I'd rather kick someone who's becoming chat killed a lot, than someone who does chat kills.


But as I said, I never kick.:p

Sam
10-09-2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
he's right on the $ with that one.

There is a clan called <A.F.C> out there in JK2 and JA.

They have the typical honor rules and such but when people break them, they treat you like an adult and inform you of the rules, what happens when you break them and they ask you to comply or split, but it is all done in an adult manner.


No "OMG YOU LAMER SON OF A <bleep>"

No verbal abuse, no rcon abuse, no one on some silly little "I'm a real life Jedi master!" power trip.

Their servers are some of the few "honor code" places where I will actually obey the rules and will not "lame people".

While I still think those rules are silly, when I play on their servers I make sure I always show them the same respect they have shown me.

The funny thing is, if you "honor" types would actually act like adults and inform/enforce people of rules in a way that shows respect, you may just get it from players in return.

But the truth is, most "honor" people are some of the biggest <bleep>holes in this game.



Wow that means alot to me.

JediLurker
10-09-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Bowing before duels, okay, whatever, I don't have a problem with that. But what the hell is up with saber down = peace??

I don't play on public servers, but I certainly follow the saber down = peace rule...because the only time I ever have my saber down is to do the ultra-cool "Damn I'm good!" walk after gutting someone. With the opponent dead, peace reigns...until the next respawn anyway. :D

In other words, like Luc said, yes it has its uses. Honor and peace are not among them.

Vanor
10-09-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Prime
But what the hell is up with saber down = peace?? What is the point of that? What purpose does it serve? Can someone who believes in it please tell me what it is really for? Why don't you want to play the game?

I can shed a little light on this I think.

It comes from JK. Back then we didn't have a dule mode to play, so the only way to do dules, was to stand around and take turns. It was considered polite to turn your saber off while you waited. Part of that was because in JK, just touching a saber was deadly, and people didn't want to lose or even win a dule because the someone bumped into someone else who had their saber on. The other reason was so it was easy to tell who was involved in the dule and who wasn't for new people who were joining.

In JO/JA I suppose part of it comes from us old timers who started with JK.

Doing it makes some sense to me, but with the following understod. If I have my saber off, that means I'm not fighting, but once I engage in a fight, it doesn't end until someone is dead. So none of this turning your saber off in the middle of a fight, and then whining about it.

The reason for using FFA, is so more then one dule can happen at the same time. The problem with the dule mode, is you have 2 people playing and 2-8 people waiting for their turn.

But if you use FFA, you can have everyone playing at the same time, or at least not having to wait 15+ min's to have your turn.

Prime
10-09-2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Vanor
I can shed a little light on this I think.

It comes from JK. Back then we didn't have a dule mode to play, so the only way to do dules, was to stand around and take turns. It was considered polite to turn your saber off while you waited. Part of that was because in JK, just touching a saber was deadly, and people didn't want to lose or even win a dule because the someone bumped into someone else who had their saber on. The other reason was so it was easy to tell who was involved in the dule and who wasn't for new people who were joining.

In JO/JA I suppose part of it comes from us old timers who started with JK. Thanks for the history lesson. I never played JK online...

Originally posted by Vanor
Doing it makes some sense to me, but with the following understod. If I have my saber off, that means I'm not fighting, but once I engage in a fight, it doesn't end until someone is dead. So none of this turning your saber off in the middle of a fight, and then whining about it.I respect and appreciate that you aren't using it in a cheap way, but I still feel that if someone doesn't want to FFA, don't go onto FFA servers.

Originally posted by Vanor
The reason for using FFA, is so more then one dule can happen at the same time. The problem with the dule mode, is you have 2 people playing and 2-8 people waiting for their turn.

But if you use FFA, you can have everyone playing at the same time, or at least not having to wait 15+ min's to have your turn. But the funny thing is, on may FFA servers you have exactly the same thing. You have two people fighting and 2-8 people using sit animations to wait around for "their turn". How is this any different than the Duel gametype?

If people don't like waiting their turn, FFA is the perfect game for them, isn't it? There is no waiting for anything, you can fight as much as you want. Why do you not want to fight on a FFA server?

fat_101
10-09-2003, 06:31 PM
i give up trying to say to ppl read the rules etc so all im gonna say is : follow the rules on my server if u join or u will be kicked, persistant offenders to breach of rules = ban the end .

on my server ( as dread says) I AM THE LAW ! :P

Vanor
10-09-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Thanks for the history lesson. I never played JK online...
You didn't miss much IMO. Sure JK was for the time a great game. But god for being effected by lag. In JK, the single best skill you could learn, to win, was how to play though the lag. How good you were as a saberfighter or even gunfighter was second.

If people don't like waiting their turn, FFA is the perfect game for them, isn't it? There is no waiting for anything, you can fight as much as you want. Why do you not want to fight on a FFA server?

To be honest I don't get this myself. If I were to setup a sever for saber dueling, and make it FFA... It would be with the intention of having more then one duel going on at a time. So if you wanted to watch, you could, if you wanted to go find some other corner of the map to beat on each other you could. FFA allows more freedom then a duel game does. That's why I'd use it. But if I were to do such a thing, I'd clearly state as much in the MotD for the server.

Joining a FFA with guns, and such, then whining about saber down=peace, or expecting no one to use guns is just stupid IMO.

FK | unnamed
10-09-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Do those who demand bowing and saber off = peace not see the irony of trying to show respect my tilting a model's head forward and then shouting racist and homophobe remarks when they lose?


you noticed they do that as well huh?

;)

FK | unnamed
10-09-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Sam
Wow that means alot to me.

well like I said, I may not like the rules you guys have but I've been treated with nothing but professional courtesy and respect when I go there, and when I have broken the rules I was not lectured to like a 2 year old or subjected to rcon/admin mod/any verbal abuse.

They way I look at it, when you invite people to your public server, if you as a host treat your guests with respect, they should do the same.

It's just basic common courtesy.

You guys treat your guests in a respectful manner, so I feel obligated to do the same when I'm there by obeying your rules.

Prime
10-09-2003, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
They way I look at it, when you invite people to your public server, if you as a host treat your guests with respect, they should do the same.

It's just basic common courtesy.

You guys treat your guests in a respectful manner, so I feel obligated to do the same when I'm there by obeying your rules. Now that is an honour system that is respectable. :)

Kurgan
11-23-2003, 12:59 PM
Actually I should correct you on a few things Vanor, while you have the right idea about JK (there wasn't an effective way to have one on one duels with limited use of force, not running for powerups, no lightsaber challenges, etc) the fact is sabers didn't do idle damage.

So far the ONLY game in the series to have idle saber damage (by default, I believe there is a cvar to enable it in JA) is JK2 (Jedi Outcast).

You couldn't really "turn your saber off" in JK/MotS. You could only switch to another weapon. Generally what people did was to switch to Fists, since it was the weakest weapon (and practically useless for getting kills) and this constituted the "I'm not ready to fight yet" message. Though, everybody knew that people could still use the force (throw force destruction) so having fists out alone didn't necessarily mean you were "unarmed."


Also, since there was no "saber challenge" (private duel) in JK, as many people could pair off and fight as they wanted to on various parts of the map.

There were also no acrobatics and no katas or specials to worry about, just basic saber swings. There were no stances or saber locks either for that matter. Nobody could whine about a move being lame, because everybody had the exact same moves (it wasn't even until MotS that it was possible to play WITHOUT a Lightsaber). ; )

In fact JK1 only had three game mods: Jedi Training (FFA) with a team game toggle, and CTF. That's it! (MotS replaced CTF with KFY and added a "Lightsaber Training" mode which was really just Sabers Only FFA; and then there was a "Personalities" toggle, that gave you four player classes to use instead of ranked Jedi).

Using mods you could have a sabers only FFA and you could turn all the Force off and use a map with no item pickups, but that was about it. You had to make up the rest...

So yes, it was very different then, and making up honor codes at that time would make sense if you wanted to saber duel.


Now that JA (and JK2) have all the cvars and gamemods necessary to have saber duels (like we wanted to do in JK) there is no need for honor codes.

But this didn't satisfy people, and so they made up NEW RULES to stop all the types of gameplay that they were tired of getting killed by or didn't want to use. Hence the problem....


They way I look at it, when you invite people to your public server, if you as a host treat your guests with respect, they should do the same.

It's just basic common courtesy.

You guys treat your guests in a respectful manner, so I feel obligated to do the same when I'm there by obeying your rules.

Couldn't agree more...