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View Full Version : Drain to powerful


gosub
10-10-2003, 12:05 PM
It seems to me that drain is to powerful in JA, it does not cost to much mana and the heal rate is very high, it gets to the point in duels,that ppl using drain just dont die, you can just puch the drain button and dont let go , because you just keep on draining, even if you use absorb its very dificult to beat a guy using drain, because with absorb on you gain little force from drain atacks, alsow you must have some force to do absorb thus impeding you from sucessfuly counter a drain atack.

StormHammer
10-10-2003, 12:09 PM
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But while they're draining you...why aren't you slicing and dicing them?

gosub
10-10-2003, 12:13 PM
even of you do, they just drain again and get back at full HP

FK | unnamed
10-10-2003, 12:26 PM
drain is the same as it was in 1.04 jk2.

problem is your attack options are now much more limited.

the high damage moves all eat up your force pool to use (real smart idea on who ever the dev was that made that decision :rolleyes: )...

being drained takes your force pool down...

see where this is going?


yep, your only options (due to being drained) are low damage attacks.


and before any noob chimes in with "just absorb" you people need to get a clue, players will wait for absorb to turn off, hell they will run away from you for 27 seconds until it wears out.

but once it's off, your ass gets drained, make sure you remember that.

gosub
10-10-2003, 12:33 PM
Drain is the same but absorb got nerfed, so there is no efective power to stop drain.

FK | unnamed
10-10-2003, 12:40 PM
absorb never could stop drain, not even in jk2.

oh sure the power "could be stopped" but a smart drain whore would just wait your absorb out, then drain you.


so how does this get fixed in JA?


well for starters, remove the force cost on specials.

having the only moves that can kill a drain whore costing force points that you do not have *due to the draining is just plain stupid.



you want to take it a step further, put kicks back in.


the single best way to combat a drain whore in jk2 was to kick him, knock him down and rush him or follow it up with a DFA/lunge.

kicks could and did instantly turn the tide of matches when people started whoring drain.

but no kicks, and no high damage specials means you have to stand there waving a saber like a jackass.

You hit him dead on and do 40 damage, he instantly drains it back.

Repeat for 20 minutes...

gosub
10-10-2003, 12:45 PM
oh sure the power "could be stopped" but a smart drain whore would just wait your absorb out, then drain you.

In 1.04 you could do alot of things while using absorb, like kicking the drainer to death. But introducing kicks In duel Mode takes the fun out of it because ppl jut kick when their losing they cant just kill the other guy with the saber wich is the hole point in duel mode.

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-10-2003, 12:51 PM
Or the admin can configure the server to have faster force regeneration, so if you get drained it doesn't take so long for your Force pool to replenish. I am a Force whore so I like fast Force regeneration. I've always thought that the default setting was way too slow, so my servers are set for 10x faster force regeneration.

Kurgan
10-10-2003, 11:35 PM
And don't forget higher saber damage (g_saberdamagescale 2 or higher).

What good is restoring 48 hp when I can do a saber attack that does 99 in 1 hit?

noide
10-11-2003, 01:46 AM
with higher regen the person can still drain whore. he gets his force back just as fast as you. besides fast regen is stupid. play with the defaults... :rolleyes:

Iblis Reborn
10-11-2003, 02:46 AM
i was trying it yesterday and drain takes alot of force to use
plus it stops once you go under 25 with your force pool

just drain him back or use those 27 seconds to kick the crap out of him in a corner or something

lightning on the other hand can light up a room real good and doesnt take much force

g//plaZma
10-11-2003, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by Iblis Reborn
i was trying it yesterday and drain takes alot of force to use
plus it stops once you go under 25 with your force pool

just drain him back or use those 27 seconds to kick the crap out of him in a corner or something

lightning on the other hand can light up a room real good and doesnt take much force

Ever tried draining in small bursts? That's how you get their force down. I have a demo of me drain whoring some random person in an ff duel server. I'll post it a bit later.

Iblis Reborn
10-11-2003, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
Ever tried draining in small bursts? That's how you get their force down. I have a demo of me drain whoring some random person in an ff duel server. I'll post it a bit later.

nope never tried that
i always did it full rip

so its kinda like the old jk supergrip bug right?

g//plaZma
10-11-2003, 03:10 AM
Ok, I got the demo uploaded.

download it here (http://kaoticz.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=319)

It's not a very strong representation of what drain whoring can do in JA but the bottom line is a person being drained doesn't have many options especially since specials take force power (and due to drain, you won't have any force)

The guy who I was drain whoring is obviously not a very skilled player (since I shut him out 12-0 before the new game started, without drain whoring) but you'd bet if he had enough force power, he'd yellow kata me if he got close enough and had enough force. He slashed me many times but due to evasion and drain, I quickly regained the health lost. When I got bored, I decided to do some slashing of my own while making sure his force pool was at 0 so he wouldn't heal back and then, the kill.

Edit: BTW, to view a demo, put the .dm_25 file into gamedata/base/demos, if you don't have a demos folder, make one. To view it, type /demo plazma_drainwhore in the console.

g//plaZma
10-11-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Iblis Reborn
nope never tried that
i always did it full rip

so its kinda like the old jk supergrip bug right?

It works the same way as the supergrip bug. Just press your drain button in bursts. But only, it's not a bug. Has been around since JO.

Scythefall
10-11-2003, 06:12 AM
I use the fast force regeneration. Because so many moves rely on high force amounts, I do not think it is fair at all that drain can cut those completely. I changed the 200 millisecond default to 50 and it's much more enjoyable to mix up in a fight now. This allows the single saber users alot more flexibility as well because they only have their acrobatics and katas to rely on, both of which use a lot of force.

I've thought a few times about removing lightning and grip and leaving all other force powers.

FK | unnamed
10-11-2003, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
And don't forget higher saber damage (g_saberdamagescale 2 or higher).

What good is restoring 48 hp when I can do a saber attack that does 99 in 1 hit?

higher than 2 = "bump and kill" games.

having some guy flail around randomly in light stance and do 100+ damage when he nicks the hair on my arm is not my idea of a complex and challenging game.

Remember those old 80’s/90’s platform games where if one monster just barely brushed up against you, your player lost a life and had to start over at the beginning of the level?

Same frustration factor comes into play with anything over 2.

2 is fine by me, and if I did not like using a saber, I would not play saber only.

The thing is, full force saber only is much more (was much more in jk2 at least) than a just swinging a saber and the occasional heal.

In JA ff/so is basically no force style game play with the occasional heal/drain thrown in.

All of the complex combo development that was available in JK2 for players who took the time to intertwine the saber and force powers into devastating combinations, all went bye bye.


At it’s very core, that is what we miss the most.

In Jk2 it was like:

“Dude check this out, first I pull this guy, and then I toss my saber at his head. I rotate to the side and do a side kick off him just as the saber impacts. Then as the knock down scores, I do a frontal kick and toss the saber down on him from mid-air. And as the finisher, as he pops up, I lunge under him right when I hit the ground.”



Now it’s like:

“Dude, I gripped this guy, then I let go and did a Kata.”


Wow…

Iblis Reborn
10-11-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
In Jk2 it was like:

“Dude check this out, first I pull this guy, and then I toss my saber at his head. I rotate to the side and do a side kick off him just as the saber impacts. Then as the knock down scores, I do a frontal kick and toss the saber down on him from mid-air. And as the finisher, as he pops up, I lunge under him right when I hit the ground.”



Now it’s like:

“Dude, I gripped this guy, then I let go and did a Kata.”


Wow…

thats what it was like at the start of jk2 for me
and yeah your right its lost alot but we can still work with it
there must be a way to put that kind of fun and action back into the game though
i havent played JA multi much so im still whoring alot but i dont wanna be doing that for too long...theres more and i will learn it