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KaiaSowapit
10-10-2003, 05:17 PM
or, How Whiney Jedi Are Spoiling This Game

Don't get me wrong, I've run across many good-spirited people who put having fun above anything else, especially their personal egos. They just seem harder to come by lately.

More frequently, I find player "A" complaining about player "B" being a (insert various childish put-down here).

Take the expression "lamer" or to "lame." It's become so widespread in use that it has virtually lost all meaning.

Initially, my understanding of the term was that it applied to people who shamelessly and intentionally took advantage of other players who were either typing or editing their configuration (had their "chat" window up). Whether that's right or wrong is subject to debate, but that's not the point of this thread.

Then "lamer" apparently had its meaning extended by a number of people who determined that players shouldn't attack one another if their lightsabers were deactivated. Though personally I think that's rather silly (given that Darth Maul would just as likely lop your head off regardless), again whether it's right or wrong is not the point of this thread.

Now "lamer" or to "lame" appears to apply to nearly anyone or anything a player doesn't particularly like. For example:
using Force Lightning
using Force Grip
using Force Push/Pull
using Saber Throw
Sometimes it's the frequency someone uses these abilities, but just as often it's if they are used at all. (Again I digress, but I can't help but to point out the ridiculousness of complaining about the use of the "Force" in a Star Wars based game.) Even more disturbing is how often those "complaining" are guilty of using the EXACT same tactics themselves (apparently what has them "upset" is that someone had the audacity to use it against THEM).

It's not so much the degradation of the term "lamer" I'm concerned about. Frankly, I couldn't care less. It's the general attitude of more and more gamers I find myself playing with - or as is the case NOT playing with. All too often I'll fire up Academy MP to blow off a little free time and have some fun, and end up wading through one whiney player after another.

"There's not enough Force power here..."
"There's TOO MUCH Force power here!"
"So and so is a n00b because they're using such and such [saber, stance, force power, etc.]"

The irony is, those complaining about bad sportsmanship are frequently the worst sports of all.

The bottom line: if you find yourself looking for a server and mine pops up on the list (as randomly and infrequently as that may be), please do us both a favor and don't join if you'd rather spend more time trading insults than having fun.

CortoCG
10-10-2003, 05:43 PM
That's the same very same reason I quit playing Counter Strike a couple of years ago.

When I started, veterans oftenly called me "n00b" in a despective way, and when I finally got l33t playing CS, newbies oftenly voted and kicked me out for being accused of "cheater".

I thought it was intrinsic of CS players to be so sissys or "maricas" (as my ppl say).

But, after playing on several JK2 and JKA servers, I can see, that this whiney attitude is intrinsic of "nerd" players. So afraid of facing real life problems with "honor" and "code" that they think playing games requires real skillz and has real meaning in life.

This is why, these so called l33t players get frustrated when some "unskilled" ******* as myself kills them with a lighted match while they are resting the lightsaber off. This is why they complain and whine all the time.

My only piece of advice on the subject is this: GET A LIFE. Cuz when you finally walk out the door of this useless virtual realm, a whole world with no honor and no lightsabers will ran over your whiney ass and give no excuses in return.

That's LIFE. Life is not playing around with silly glowing sticks as lightsabers on a PC. So save up the whiney for when you really need it and HAVE FUN when playing silly computer games.

Magister Dixit.

Master William
10-10-2003, 05:55 PM
Darth Maul surely would chop off your head.
But then again, is JK any realism or SW realism at all? JK has never been especially realistic, any game is not realistic.

People use following arguments against ''honor'' people (sometimes):

''When did you see Jedis and Siths bow to eachother in the movies?''

''When in the movies didn't Jedi or Sith kill eachother when their sabers are turned off?''

JK2 and JA are far away from the movies! You can't use movie-arguments.

I was at a server yesterday, and some guy called me a lamer because I killed him when he had his saber up, and he wasn't even typing or something, he just stood and started at some guy.

So the thing is, I am a 'lamer' just because he wasn't ready?
That's called going to far!

Lathain Valtiel
10-10-2003, 05:55 PM
Yo Kaia, it's me, Lathain. I of course agree with you, seeing as how I tend to clean house on your server with relative ease and am thus bitched at. I get bitched at for saber throwing through the gaps in the guards of doublesaberists and dual saberists. Hehe.

I can understand the point IF Pull+Throw or excessive Grip is used, as both punch through Absorb... I think it's fairly retarded if my saber turns off if I'm Gripped yet i have Absorb on, making it impossible to retaliate with Saber Throw... Or i'm open to Pull if Absorb is on. But then, isn't there some new way to resist Grip? Do enlighten me on that.

Speaking of cleaning house... Where've you been lately? Haven't seen you on your server or AIM.

Spider AL
10-10-2003, 07:41 PM
CortoCG, you said it well, and succinctly. N1.

I suppose some sad people play games to escape from life, because their life is sad. Therefore, they create all these silly, and quite frankly, dishonourable "codes of honour" that help them compensate for the fact that they're not really Jedi, even when they're pretending to be in a game. Ergh. Crush them all, that's what I say.

Nothing is lame, the only rule is "win". Get used to it.

KaiaSowapit
10-10-2003, 07:51 PM
JK2 and JA are far away from the movies! You can't use movie-arguments.

The point of this thread wasn't to debate Lucas canon, realism or "honor" codes.


I was at a server yesterday, and some guy called me a lamer because I killed him when he had his saber up, and he wasn't even typing or something, he just stood and started at some guy.

So the thing is, I am a 'lamer' just because he wasn't ready?
That's called going to far!

That embodies the point of this thread EXACTLY.

MMXP, good to see you. Sorry I've been in a galaxy far far away. ;)

Though again it's not the point of this thread to discuss exploits or problems with game mechanics, much to your credit, you don't whine about them IN-GAME.

My frustration is the general lack of maturity I keep finding on my server. Instead of simply leaving or sucking it up and making the best of what might very well be frustrating, many resort to childish rants and name-calling. And it doesn't stop at "lamer" or "n00b" - all too frequently it escalates to "n_gger," "f_ggot" or "j_w." (Who'da guessed Star Wars had so much appeal to homophobic, neo-nazi white supremacists?)

Heads up folks: I have zero tolerance for that kind of nonsense.

If a mod/patch comes out to disable chat, you darn well better believe I'm installing it.

|GG|Carl
10-10-2003, 07:55 PM
If I go to a server, this sometimes happens:


Other guy: n00b!
Me: No, I'm no n00b, I'm a lamer
Other guy: :eek:


:lol: That makes 'em think.

Vanor
10-10-2003, 08:21 PM
I always find it quite funny when someone gets beat by someone else, and they call the person a newb. If the guy was a newb then how the hell did he beat you? I mean even if he whores/spams/lames you. Then he must of played long enough to learn at least one move.

It reminds me of the Black Knight from Monty Phyton... "I'm the black knight I can't lose!" That is exactly the mindset of most of these people. They are a great and powerful Jedi Master so oviously if you kill them, it had to be a cheep kill. There's no way a n00b could have the skils to beat them fairly.

It also reminds me of something that happened playing ActionQuake some years ago. Some guy was on top of a building near where the grenades spawn in, and spent like 5 min's dropping grenades on people running by.

After the 3rd or 4th time he dropped one near me, I ran up there and fraged him with the MP5... He accused me of being a camper.

:confused:

Kurgan
10-10-2003, 08:24 PM
I have spent more time playing on my own server honestly than joining, although I have done that a lot as well.

For the most part I have actually encountered very little whining (a few people that did shut up when asked to, heh).

I've seen far more whining on these forums than in the game, I kid you not....

That doesn't mean it isn't out there, but I guess I've been lucky!



The whole "movie argument" thing is only used as an argument piece because some "honorists" (for lack of a better term) make the claim that their system is more "true to the spirit of the movies" or something like that. I think it's just the opposite, so sometimes it helps shut them up to point that out... not always, but sometimes.

This comes hand in hand with the argument that their "honor codes" would be laughed at and ignored in the vast majority of FPS games (First Person Shooters). Of course if you use this argument FIRST (before the movie argument) you'll most likely get people saying stuff like "This isn't Quake/a fragfest, this is Star Wars! When did you see XXXX happen in the movies??"





PS: Bots are fine, but just take a look at their sad performance on Vjun FFA or their absence in Siege, and you'll see the necessity of playing humans. ; p

Lathain Valtiel
10-10-2003, 08:36 PM
Ah Kaia, the reason i don't say anything is because if they're used on me I take perverse pleasure in chopping the fool who uses them on me to pieces. They don't tend to actually finish me, much to their users' regret... It's the fact some things are there to be exploited that I find distasteful. But eh, as long as it's not a totally unbeatable scenario.

Fractal-Coffee
10-10-2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Bots are fine, but just take a look at their sad performance on Vjun FFA or their absence in Siege, and you'll see the necessity of playing humans.

Have you seen the excuse for pathing they have in the Duel/Powerduel Rancor Pit level (the official one, not that new rancor level which is actually quite fun ;) )? It's ridiculous. I ended up having to kick them all because they were just running backwards and forwards and never getting close enough to one another to actually fight.


Stupid bots.

Kurgan
10-10-2003, 10:18 PM
I was too busy slaughtering them en masse with that map set to FFA, so I guess I never noticed...

Sargasso
10-11-2003, 03:20 AM
Regardless of whatever Survey X says at any given moment about the average age of game players being older than what I'm about to describe, I feel pretty sure that most of the people that play these kind of games are kids. If they aren't technically then easily act as such thanks to anonymity.

If you want mature, intelligent play in the community at large 9 times out of 10, hell, even 5 times out of 10, you've got to look somewere else besides online FPS video games. Play something else. unfortunately. That's the way it's going to be until there is a dramatic change in the way these games are played.

I mean frankly you're pushing the pixles of your toy glow stick around to "kill" the other player behind the relative safety of your computer screen... this is something that is simply NOT going attract a lot of mature, intelligent people. Not that it can't or [i]hasn't/i] attracted intelligent people and not that the game can't be played intelligently.... it just does not inherently attract the number of these kind of people that are going to make the overall experience better. I'm pretty sure most people that with these qualities are doing something else with their time...

Oh, yeah... now here comes the part where you insert thing I didn't say and flame me behind the safety of your keyboard.. condescending, hypocritical, etc...well whatever helps you sleep at night. :()

Nehebkau
10-11-2003, 03:47 AM
What you have all failed to state though...

Honor code in most games = Rules

Rules we follow or get kicked. Most servers say something along the lines of follow the honor code, or they list the rules. If you break these rules you deserve to be either called lame or kick from the server.

Especially when I see the Admin right off the bat say

"Please use the Honor code, no attacking while sabers are down, chat killing, or constant spamming of the same attack/force power."

Now I understand that some servers don't state these things and some would like to play with the honor code while others FFA, what I do? Stay out of the way of the FFA'ers and ask to limit FFA in one area in the map while the ones that want to be able to walk around stay outta their way.

Then again most of you are to head strong to listen to a polite request from another player and yell "I'm gonna hunt you n00b down!!!1!111"

Oh well such as life...

My request... give the "Role players" room, the maps are pretty large and I'm sure they would agree to sectioning off the map. Then all the parties are happy.

Imperial_thug
10-11-2003, 04:56 AM
I used to play bots only just for that same reason until I found good servers. Don't give up hope man, some good servers I found for JK2 are:

HuntingWabbits.com
Sithblisters Blisterhouse

and for JA (I really don't know many cause the game is still new, but I found one good one so far...)

the TITAN domain

Beside, especially with JA, the Botplay is'nt very good. The levels seem like they are not waypointed very well cause' the bots jump around like retards. It just in no way compares to the challenge you could get against real ppl.

btw: my player name is "Disgruntled_Padawan" or just plain "Disgruntled" sometimes, I hope to run into you on some of thes servers :)

Scythefall
10-11-2003, 05:04 AM
Well, thanks to Kurgan for giving the link to the converted Jedi Outcast maps, because at least those maps have good BOT support. I was very disappointed with the BOT support in JA and it's obvious now it was just sloppy design in the maps. The BOTs work great in the JO maps and it's actually fun to just crank them up, throw in 8 bots with no weapons and fast force regen and have a free for all.

-JKII_ffa.pk3 (JK2 FFA converted map pack)
http://www.pcgamemods.com/2320/

CortoCG
10-11-2003, 05:57 AM
Wait a minute. What damn rules are we talking about? I mean, if the game allows me to kill all my enemies by simply hitting the same button all the time, I will keep hitting that button unil no one else is left alive.

You can call me lame, noob, sucker, and bla bla bla, for I won't care. If THAT button was meant to kill players and killing players is the primary goal in the game, then I'd call LAME, NOOB, SUCKER, CHEAP (and everything in between) those players who don't use THAT freaking button.

Otherwise, go play Barbie Goes Shopping kiddos! (actually I do, lmao)

Corto never stops.

Luc Solar
10-11-2003, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by Nehebkau
If you break these rules you deserve to be either called lame or kick from the server.

We are telling you why certain rules are bad. No-one has yet explained why these rules would do the community any good. If you enforce bad rules, you are dumb. It's that simple.

"Please use the Honor code, no attacking while sabers are down, chat killing, or constant spamming of the same attack/force power."

And we have explained why this kind of Honour Codes do not work. Enforcing them is stupid. Who wants to willingly enforce stupid rules and ruin the community?

Take "constant spamming" for example. Who draws the line? If you absorb my lightning-attack 3 times in a row can I call you a lamer and have you banned from the server? Or am I the lamer for zapping you 3 times in a row? Why are we even having this retarded conversation!? Why don't we all just play the game?

Stay out of the way of the FFA'ers and ask to limit FFA in one area in the map while the ones that want to be able to walk around stay outta their way.

And we have explained why this does not work. The biggest problem isn't really you dueling or walking saber down in a FFA. The problem is you flipping out if someone scratches you without bowing and asking for permission first. The problem is you resorting to incessant whining, kick votes and admin command abuse.

My request... give the "Role players" room, the maps are pretty large and I'm sure they would agree to sectioning off the map. Then all the parties are happy.

Again: 1) doesn't work. 2) is not a FFA anymore. 3) Honour people want to invade the whole galaxy and every server on it, not just a bespin pad. :(

CortoCG
10-11-2003, 06:39 AM
"Role players"? WTF? Next thing we'll be hearing is that they date Alora and go out with the customized chicks from JA.

Nehebkau
10-11-2003, 07:40 AM
We are telling you why certain rules are bad. No-one has yet explained why these rules would do the community any good. If you enforce bad rules, you are dumb. It's that simple.

Rules are rules, the server sets up a list of rules you are required to follow you break them you must then be punished.

And we have explained why this kind of Honour Codes do not work. Enforcing them is stupid. Who wants to willingly enforce stupid rules and ruin the community?

Who said community? I was speaking of a single server not the whole world. Who's to say what rules are stupid? (refer to previous quote)

Take "constant spamming" for example. Who draws the line? If you absorb my lightning-attack 3 times in a row can I call you a lamer and have you banned from the server? Or am I the lamer for zapping you 3 times in a row? Why are we even having this retarded conversation!? Why don't we all just play the game?

This is up to the admin and players (If voting is allowed) This is not up to you, if multiple people vote in your favor then so much the better.

And we have explained why this does not work. The biggest problem isn't really you dueling or walking saber down in a FFA. The problem is you flipping out if someone scratches you without bowing and asking for permission first. The problem is you resorting to incessant whining, kick votes and admin command abuse.

Again, it does work if you don't "flip out" everytime you see another player and feel the need to backstab, sneak up, or just plain strike the person while his saber is down. Learn some self control and attack people that are ready to fight, not just grab some easy points by attacking defense less players.

Again: 1) doesn't work. 2) is not a FFA anymore. 3) Honour people want to invade the whole galaxy and every server on it, not just a bespin pad.

1) Could work if you would stop trying for easy points and attacking people that are not hurting anyone by taking up a slot on the server. 2) Not everything has to be FFA this is why the "k" button was put in so that you could challenge players 1 vs 1. 3) Not everyone wants to invade the earth (Seeing how we have not explored the galaxy yet) most people join a server and everyone is playing "Honour code" style so they do the same, then some person comes in and go FFA and attacks them while they are watching a fight. Cheap shots are never ok.

"Role players"? WTF? Next thing we'll be hearing is that they date Alora and go out with the customized chicks from JA.

I used that term because some like it others don't how about we come up with a term that everyone can agree on?

weiderudare
10-11-2003, 08:14 AM
I haven't played that much online and haven't encountered this "honour code" yet.
I like the idea of honour code, it probably makes you feel a bit more part of something than just plainly run around and stab down people.
I can agree that the code sometimes pissess people off. I mean, like you have fought this guy for 2 minutes and suddenly, he turns his saber off and yells: "Saber down! You can't hurt me!"
This would piss me off bigtime.
But again, the code is probably a great way to have all of the players have a chance to enjoy the game. In JK2, I never wrote in the chat because as soon as I did, someone used grip on me and threw me off a ledge.
I think that the people thinking: "The honour code sucks" probably are the one who only cares for one thing: Having the most kills on the server. But the people using this code, probably care more about having fun.
And isn't that the whole thing of games? Having fun?

Nehebkau
10-11-2003, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by weiderudare
Having fun?

Well said.


he turns his saber off and yells: "Saber down! You can't hurt me!"

Most of the time (I can't say never because its been know to happen) people just run around the server with the saber down to visually show people that he is not going to attack/fight anyone at that time. I've personally haven't run into people that turn their saber off last minute to avoid defeat. Only time it has happened to me is when we both agreed to end combat because it was taking to damn long. :D

I think that the people thinking: "The honour code sucks" probably are the one who only cares for one thing: Having the most kills on the server. But the people using this code, probably care more about having fun.

Couldnt have said it better. Once again taking from my experience (I can't tell you how it will turn out because each situation is different) When I FFA because people are not using the "Honour code" I am usually top 3, On a Honour Code server I'm usually only getting 10-15 kills because I like to observe my opponent and learn his moves before a fight. Makes things more enjoyable when you predict each others moves and counter.

Vsync
10-11-2003, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
CortoCG, you said it well, and succinctly. N1.

I suppose some sad people play games to escape from life, because their life is sad. Therefore, they create all these silly, and quite frankly, dishonourable "codes of honour" that help them compensate for the fact that they're not really Jedi, even when they're pretending to be in a game. Ergh. Crush them all, that's what I say.

Nothing is lame, the only rule is "win". Get used to it.

So sad, but true. For some starwars fanatics who devote their lives to this game (you know the ones that spend all of their money to go see a starwars movie 20 times so it could beat out another movie like spiderman or the ones that "Triumph the insult comic dog was cracking on in the "Conan O Brian late night show" or the ones who sit behind you during one of the Lord of the Ring movies sipping on soda pretending like it's ale) it creates a sort of alternate reality where they just can't help, but to do nothing than to make rules that would keep the game balanced in their own minds. Now I don't mind if people like stuff like that, but just don't ruin the fun in public servers. Most of these people spend time chatting about the weirdest things. Like I went on one server where some of the people were talking about they only go out with J-Lo if unless she were dressed like a twilek or an elf. I mean do they really have to talk about this stuff like it's a religion. It's really getting annoying to play with a game that was designed for simplistic combat and then other people add stupid rules. I knew this was going to happen since lucas arts put all those animations and Star Wars Galaxies (a game that was totally unfinished and ended up being terrible) doesn't even come close to the combat offered in this game.The worse part is since the bots are useless until Lucas Arts and Raven comes out with patch we're stuck with going to these bad servers unless you make your own of course.

weiderudare
10-11-2003, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by Nehebkau





Most of the time (I can't say never because its been know to happen) people just run around the server with the saber down to visually show people that he is not going to attack/fight anyone at that time. I've personally haven't run into people that turn their saber off last minute to avoid defeat. Only time it has happened to me is when we both agreed to end combat because it was taking to damn long. :D

Well, thats good to know... I was unsure of if people just used the code as a way to flee at the last minute...

KaiaSowapit
10-11-2003, 08:34 AM
Sargasso, I think you hit the nail on the head. Like you said, it's not that the game can't attract mature, relatively intelligent people, it's just that chances are they're doing something else with their time (arguably like I should be doing myself).

Nehebkau, again the point of this thread is not (was not) to debate "honor codes" - I am criticizing lousy attitudes and the tendency of players to abuse chat in game. I'll defend your right to keep/enforce "honor codes" on your server just as fiercely as I'd fight to keep that malarky off of mine (no disrespect intended).

Kurgan and others, for the record, I wasn't 100% sincere when I suggested I'd rather play with bots. MP sans people = SP. Yes I agree (strongly), the routing in Academy is sub-standard. Furthermore, the bot A.I. is anything but "intelligent." That said, I've never seen a bot throw a hissy-fit and question someone's sexual-orientation, ethnic background or grey-matter-to-feces ratio. I've also yet to witness a gaggle of bots attempt to vote-kick somebody off a server... for ANY reason. Stupid as they may be, bots still have a better concept of how to play this game than many of the human opponents I've encountered.

To paraphrase my good friend Corto, if there's a button to press for "fun," I'm darn well going to press it as much and as often as I can. Unfortunately, for some of you turkeys (you know who you are ;)) that button defaults to "Y" and your idea of fun is badgering everyone off the server with self-absorbed ignorance.

Nehebkau
10-11-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit

Nehebkau, again the point of this thread is not (was not) to debate "honor codes" - I am criticizing lousy attitudes and the tendency of players to abuse chat in game. I'll defend your right to keep/enforce "honor codes" on your server just as fiercely as I'd fight to keep that malarky off of mine (no disrespect intended).


Nor would I want to force you to uphold by beliefs of how a server should be run. Your money at work your rules. The only reason the honor code came up was because I was tieing it into rules. The only reason rules came up was because in some post prior to mine it was brough up how the person liked to run in and kill all with no regard, to me that sounded like they liked to disregard the rules of the server and I hate people that blatantly break the rules to have their type of "fun".

I don't know thats just me, I could be wrong.

KaiaSowapit
10-11-2003, 09:51 AM
...like you have fought this guy for 2 minutes and suddenly, he turns his saber off and yells: "Saber down! You can't hurt me!"
This would piss me off bigtime.

Yes, it DOES happen and it IS annoying. I've seen all kinds of abuses of this nature, including chuckle-heads who will pop-up their chat windows in a moment's notice to avoid retribution after just attacking you. In my experience it's rampant in this community and if you haven't stumbled upon it yet, consider yourself quite fortunate.

The only reason rules came up was because in some post prior to mine it was brough up how the person liked to run in and kill all with no regard...

Yes, that's precisely how some of us interpret "Rules: Defeat your enemies to score points!" ;)

1) Could work if you would stop trying for easy points and attacking people that are not hurting anyone by taking up a slot on the server.

Actually, if the server is at capacity you quite possibly ARE hurting some unlucky sod who'd rather be playing than idling and selfishly taking up space. And even if the server isn't full, you're tying up precious bandwidth (regardless of your ping) which believe it or not, can have a negative impact on other players.

2) Not everything has to be FFA this is why the "k" button was put in so that you could challenge players 1 vs 1.

True, but that's also why Raven included game types known as "duel" and "Power Duel." On my server, the CVAR "g_privateDuel" is set to "0" making the "k" button useless. And yes, that's the way I like it. :)

While I'm at it, let me reveal another option included in the game, it's the CVAR "g_saberRestrictForce." When activated (which it always is on my server), it restricts offensive Force powers (Grip, Lightning, Mind Trick, Push, etc.) to players who have LOWERED their sabers. That's right - you MUST lower your saber to use lightning. Therefore, if you lower your saber on my server, I'm going to assume you're about to do something nasty... so yeah, don't be surprised if I go out of my way to clobber you.

Cheap shots are never ok.

That's so relative, arbitrary and subjective it doesn't merit further discussion.

I'll close with one more comment, and urge all future posts to remain on topic...

It's called STAR WARS, not STAR TREK for a reason. Think about it.

Luc Solar
10-11-2003, 10:00 AM
Argh. Not again. You don't know what you're talking about and you sure haven't read the posts you're replying to.
Please read the threads about this issue first and then reply.


Who said community? I was speaking of a single server not the whole world. Who's to say what rules are stupid? (refer to previous quote)

We are speking of the whole community. The attitude of players in general. And I can tell you what rules are stupid and what aren't. If you don't agree with my arguments, please tell me why and we'll see who wins. My argument against yours. That's how debating works. And once it is established that Rule X is in fact BAD, then Rule X should not be enforced anymore. Unless you want to be a prick, that is.

In other words - you can say: "sure, that rule sucks but I want to be a prick and enforce it anyways". But if you lose the debate, you can't insist on being the 'good guy' who enforces a good rule. It does not work that way. Keep your Honour Code but admit you're being an ass to the JA community.

This is up to the admin and players (If voting is allowed) This is not up to you, if multiple people vote in your favor then so much the better.

Isn't that just lovely. People can vote anyone off for any reason they want to. Could this feature be abused in any way? Perhaps by immature teenagers who want everyone to show them respect? Have you ever even played this game, because you don't seem to have the slightest clue about the "reality" online.

Again, it does work if you don't "flip out" everytime you see another player and feel the need to backstab, sneak up, or just plain strike the person while his saber is down.

Please read the thread FIRST. Then post. This "flipping out" you're talking about is actually the only thing you're SUPPOSED to do in a FFA game. You call that flipping out? Take a look at the screen when you log on to a server. What does it say about the rules of the game?

Learn some self control and attack people that are ready to fight, not just grab some easy points by attacking defense less players.

What on earth are you doing on a FFA server if you're not ready to fight? Are you saying that I must ask permission to make sure the opponent is willing to be shot at the moment? How long am I supposed to wait before attacking if he sais "sure, shoot me" so that it won't be a dishonourable type-kill? Or should I bow first? It's satrurday today... wasn't that double-bow day in teh Code Of honourz? So 2 bows is sufficient? Should I bow before and/or after I asked for permission to attack? Is there any freaking way I could PLAY the game without getting whined upon and kicked in this absurd mine field of silly made-up rules?

You people keep talking about "easy points" and "defensless players". It makes me sick. I don't care what the hell you're doing on the server. If you are in my way, I won't put my chat box up to ask if it's okay if I play a little just so that you can throw a thermal det in my face. If you log on to a FFA why don't you play? If seeing you're Jedi die is so horrible that you simply have to insult and kick people off the server....how about NOT PUTTING YOUR SABER DOWN or using spectator mode or better yet: not log on to the server at all!?


1) Could work if you would stop trying for easy points and attacking people that are not hurting anyone by taking up a slot on the server.

Easy points is not the issue. If you had read ANYTHING people have been posting you'd know that. They're not hurting anyone? Yes they are. They're kicking me off the server because my PLAYING THE GAME messes up their chatting session. Can you not see how absurd that is?

2) Not everything has to be FFA this is why the "k" button was put in so that you could challenge players 1 vs 1.

Not everything has to be FFA? How about if you could actually FFA in say... 1 out of 20 FFA servers? Is that too much to ask? Of course it is. All FFA servers should be chatrooms were noble jedi talk about noble stuff and insult & ban "lamers".

You can duel in a FFA, sure. WHY DON'T YOU USE IT THEN? Why do you insist on ruining the game for everyone else by walking around saber down whining? Oh and how about going to a duel
server or spec mode if you don't feel like "playing"?

3) Not everyone wants to invade the earth (Seeing how we have not explored the galaxy yet) most people join a server and everyone is playing "Honour code" style so they do the same, then some person comes in and go FFA and attacks them while they are watching a fight. Cheap shots are never ok.

No. Not everyone. Just most of them. Idiots forcing their Code upon me. Do you think anyone is complaining about the courteous guy who never whines and always obeys server rules?

And now you're giving me the "cheap shot/easy kill"-thing again. Please get a clue. :mad:

I used that term because some like it others don't how about we come up with a term that everyone can agree on?

How about "immature egoistic delirious jerk who seeks to ruin the fun of others and thinks that he really is a honourable skilled Jedi Master"

[/rant]

Master William
10-11-2003, 10:33 AM
I like just relaxing and playing around in the maps...
I do duel and kill people.

As for you people who want to turn this into Ut2003 - stop it, you're ruining something most players are enjoying.

the honorists are like 80% of the community or something, they're bigger.

I think the ''don't spam a force/move'' rule sucks though. It's so unfair...

I'm fine with the others... I remember when I used to meditate on the bespin pad and other places in JK2 maps...

I loved those custom maps.

Luc Solar - you may start your quotes and flaming.
:rolleyes:

Master William
10-11-2003, 10:53 AM
But Luc... You're kind of right...
In Counter-Strike people don't care if you're typing, they kill you.
Same in UT games - Quake games - etc.

I don't see why JA should be a special case.
I do love the honor stuff, I like relaxing more than running around in a FFA fight with 9 people in the same spot spamming katas and other leet tricks.

But I can understand why you think so, Luc...

Now let me slash you in game... Please?

Luc Solar
10-11-2003, 11:01 AM
I don't really understand what you mean by referring to UT2003. Nobody is trying to turn JA into anything else than what it is...well, except for all the honour code people.

I'm all out of quotes and flames. :(

[mr. T voice]I pity the fool who still doesn't understand what I've been trying to say[/mr. T voice]

Everyone has the right to play a game they bought. Don't be a part of the plaque that ruined JO. Ditch the silly rules that exist only in your head and just play the damn game...who knows, it might actually be FUN. :)

EDIT: Feel free to slash me anytime, Master William. :D

KaiaSowapit
10-11-2003, 11:11 AM
As for you people who want to turn this into Ut2003 - stop it, you're ruining something most players are enjoying.

I'll make you a deal: I won't try to turn Academy into Ut2003 if you don't try to turn it into mIRC.

the honorists are like 80% of the community or something, they're bigger.

What's the statistic on how many are thirteen year old boys obsessed with DragonBall Z?

Here's a proposal for "honor code" enthusiasts:[list=1]
ALWAYS play the "Light Side"
NEVER use a red saber
NEVER attack another "Light Sider"
DON'T lower your guard around Sith/Dark Jedi
NEVER lose your temper (i.e.: whine)
Eat all your vegetables [/list=1]
Okay, the last one is optional, but in all seriousness the first five ARE authentic to the spirit of the movies and the role of being an "honorable" Jedi. I challenge anyone to argue with me on that.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to "role play" a Sith. If you don't like the way I play, GOOD... it means I'm in character! ;)

Master William
10-11-2003, 11:16 AM
Um, I kill anyone, and I don't whine, because it's just bad to do it.

''omg whinar stfu lol''

that's the kind of response I will get if I whine - which I did in my JK2 days.

But I understand you... Why should JA be a special case, when in all games you kill people who type or whatever.

I attack light/sith, no difference to me between them...
I also tend to change force sides, and therefore the color and look of my character.

I do have a ''dark side suit'' :)

I hate Dragonball Z - (anime hater ;) ) and I am turning 14 tomorrow.

Do any of you want to play? I'm bored.

weiderudare
10-11-2003, 11:21 AM
Well, the honour code thing shows that JA users actually wants to do something else than just: "Stab, run, heal, grip, stab...."
I can see why certain players hate this code but why not do this the simple way: People who don't want the honour code play on their servers and vice versa.
If there really 80% of the users that like this code, why can't they as a majority play the game the way the want?
It seems that most of the codehaters are those people coming from Ut, Cs and other games that are pretty much: "Fire, run, reload, fire......"
Codehaters have fun killing people all the time.
Codelovers want to have a more easy way to the game, and maybe find some internetbuddies and walk from the computer thinking:"Wow, its really fun how nice these people are"

Kurgan
10-11-2003, 11:38 AM
The problem isn't that the honor code "exists" (ie: that so many people "believe in" it), but rather that they think it is (or should be) universal.


These are the folks who join a server and then whine when their honor code is not followed and (if they can) vote kick people who violate their code.

In short, they harass people who don't adhere to their particular version of the 'code.'

That's what we so many of us object to. If they stayed in their own servers and clearly posted their rules on said servers it would be NO BIG DEAL. People can play how they want on their servers.

Its when they join public servers and shove it down other's throats that it goes too far.


And let's debate this WITHOUT flames, thanks. I have to keep reminding people, they get so angry over this (which can be understandable). Just realize there's no reason to level personal attacks against people on these forums. None. If you want to do that, do it someplace else.

KaiaSowapit
10-11-2003, 12:10 PM
Well, the honour code thing shows that JA users actually wants to do something else than just: "Stab, run, heal, grip, stab...."

Not to sound like an ass, but that's precisely why LucasArts offers games such as "Star Wars Galaxies" and "Knights of the Old Republic." Like it or not, Academy is based on the Quake engine and by this very nature, inherently similar to other first-person shooters.

I can see why certain players hate this code but why not do this the simple way: People who don't want the honour code play on their servers and vice versa.

In an ideal world, you're absolutely right. Unfortunately as Kurgan pointed out, this isn't an ideal world. People migrate from server to server with little to no regard for what is acceptable behavior. Furthermore, the most brazen act as if it's their god-given right. Newsflash: the money you spent on Academy (assuming you didn't simply pirate it) guarantees you nothing more than a single-player experience - playing online is a bonus and a privilege. That's the underlying message of this thread, whether we agree on "honor codes" or not.

It seems that most of the codehaters are those people coming from Ut, Cs and other games that are pretty much: "Fire, run, reload, fire......"

I assure you, at least for me personally, that is NOT the case.

Codelovers want to have a more easy way to the game, and maybe find some internetbuddies and walk from the computer thinking:"Wow, its really fun how nice these people are"

Again, you're welcome to that opinion, though from my experience it's quite inaccurate. Take for example my buddy Lathain (MMXP); he'll spend a good majority of the time in-game clobbering me and anyone else in his path. Afterwards we'll discuss it (in AIM mind you) and have a good laugh. It's all good fun and still quite social. On the other hand, from my experience with "codelovers" and the various "clans" obsessed with it, I've found the majority of them to be fairly petty, egocentric and insecure people, preoccupied with establishing a distinct peking order of "respect" and "authority." I'm not trying to bad mouth them all... just share what I've witnessed for myself.

weiderudare
10-11-2003, 12:15 PM
Well, as I see it, there will never come to an agreement between codelovers and codehaters..
I for one, can't even find a server! Where are all the servers? There are like 20 of them!
And how do you bow? By tapping C? Or what?

KaiaSowapit
10-11-2003, 12:37 PM
Well, as I see it, there will never come to an agreement between codelovers and codehaters..

Maybe, maybe not... at the very least we can agree to disagree. :)

I'd be satisfied if we all simply agreed to respect each other's "house rules" when joining servers, but that's probably expecting too much.

I for one, can't even find a server! Where are all the servers? There are like 20 of them!

Darn annoying, ain't it? I don't know what the story is on this one... from what I've overheard it's a result of Raven having a fit over all the bootleg (illegal) copies of Jedi Academy floating around. All I can say is mine is legit yet still I can't see more than a dozen servers online at any one time. It fries my noodle too.

Till somebody comes to their senses, one alternative is to use "All Seeing Eye" (http://www.udpsoft.com/eye2/index.html) software to browse for available servers.

And how do you bow? By tapping C? Or what?

There's actually a built-in emote for this in Academy... look at your setup menu to find it. Mind you it only works in Duel/PowerDuel... why I have no clue, though far be it for me to complain Raven didn't add more emotes to FFA. ;)

In lieu of using the new bow emote, you can probably get away with the old standard of simply crouching and/or looking down to nod your head.

Just keep in mind that if you do it on my server... you're giving me an advantage I most likely won't pass up. ;)

Astrotoy7
10-11-2003, 12:44 PM
Yeah, running into online idiots can sour your take on the whole game, ruining the experience. When on your own, bots are cool, if you can get a few friends together and have a Lan game(as I often do) that is even more fun, and there is never any fighting or flaming any of that other BS....it's FUN ! Which was the original aim of the game, right ?!

MTFWBYA

weiderudare
10-11-2003, 12:45 PM
LOL...
I also have a legit copy....Stupid everybody :)
I think that to stop people from using the saberdown thing, you could do that on Team servers, whenever someone gives up a fight(puts his saberdown) hes captured and will have to walk to the opposite teams "base"
I think this would make people think twice before putting their defense down.......

Katt
10-11-2003, 03:29 PM
I haven't read all the replies, but I think it boils down to this:

The person that hosts the server has the right to create any "rules" they want for people who wish to play on that server. If you want to play on that server, and you do not follow the rules, it follows you will be dealt with in any number of ways (hopefully a mature way, but that's a seperate topic).

If, however, you get on a server that has no rules, and out of habit expect certain common rules to be adhered to, you're in for a rude awakening. It's only fair that with no rules present, it's up to each individual if they want to agree to another individual's rules.

Personally I think if you join a FFA, you should be expected to fight at all times. I don't join a FFA to avoid certain players just because they're not in the mood to fight when our paths cross. You have plenty of time to change your profile when you're dead. Don't spawn next time you die so you can change such settings. But of course if a server has such a rule, I don't join it. Some people, however, will join it and blatantly ignore such rules. Therein lies the difference (and the problem) between some people.

fatBastard()
10-11-2003, 03:33 PM
First there are a few statements I feel the need to comment on:

Originally posted by: Spider AL
I suppose some sad people play games to escape from life, because their life is sad. Therefore, they create all these silly, and quite frankly, dishonourable "codes of honour" that help them compensate for the fact that they're not really Jedi, even when they're pretending to be in a game. Ergh. Crush them all, that's what I say.

Nothing is lame, the only rule is "win". Get used to it.
Wow, talk about a bleak perspective on life. Please promise me you'll never try to play soccer or football or even baseball with your kids or they'll end up in the hospital due to your obsessive focus on winning rather than having fun ;)

Originally posted by: CortoCG
Wait a minute. What damn rules are we talking about? I mean, if the game allows me to kill all my enemies by simply hitting the same button all the time, I will keep hitting that button unil no one else is left alive.

You can call me lame, noob, sucker, and bla bla bla, for I won't care. If THAT button was meant to kill players and killing players is the primary goal in the game, then I'd call LAME, NOOB, SUCKER, CHEAP (and everything in between) those players who don't use THAT freaking button.
So if I told you that by performing a certain action you could instantly wipe out every other player in the game ... you would do it without a second thought, right? Just like the ridiculous bunny-jumping (pardon me: strafe jumping to be correct ... I think) exploit in Quake based games? Or the shooting through virtually ANY material in Counter Strike or whatever bug, exploit, inconsistency, you name it, can be found in basically every game engine (ALL programs contain errors ... it is only a question of how many and how critical they are).

I do not mean to pick on you specifically CortoCG, but your opinion (if I interpreted it correctly that is) is one I've encoutered so many times before. "If it is in the game then why not use it?" Erm ... because it ruins the game?

This was not originally a thread about exploits or bugs, so I'll try not to turn it into one, but I'll stake my good name and reputation (What do you mean: "What reputation?" :D) on the claim that basically every single exploiter/grief player has used the same argument: "It's in the game, so use it" or "If I can do it, you can just learn to do it yourself" or "If you don't like it, you can just go somewhere else.".

Now, I think both sides of the debat in this thread are right ... and both sides are wrong:

Yes, it IS stupid and unbecoming to start spewing foulness if you get killed (be it by a cheap shot or not).
Yes, it IS a waste of server space to log onto a server only to chat away about the when and the how a date with Jennifer Lopez (I'll rather shoot myself than stoop to calling her J-Lo) is to take place.
Yes, it IS abusing/exploiting the "rules" to enter chat mode or turn off your saber only to avoid getting wacked.

BUT ...

Orginally posted by: KaiaSowapit
On my server, the CVAR "g_privateDuel" is set to "0" making the "k" button useless. And yes, that's the way I like it.

While I'm at it, let me reveal another option included in the game, it's the CVAR "g_saberRestrictForce." When activated (which it always is on my server), it restricts offensive Force powers (Grip, Lightning, Mind Trick, Push, etc.) to players who have LOWERED their sabers. That's right - you MUST lower your saber to use lightning. Therefore, if you lower your saber on my server, I'm going to assume you're about to do something nasty... so yeah, don't be surprised if I go out of my way to clobber you.
Let me start off by apologizing for "misquoting" you KaiaSowapit. You are not the one complaining about the "honor code", but your comment is just what I need to make a point ;).

Anyway, does anyone know the CVAR for stopping people shooting other people while they are chatting? Or when their saber is off? No? Well, it is easy to "enforce" your own rules when they can be set by server commands, like exluding certain force powers/weapons or removing the option to challenge others to a duel, etc, but it's not quite so easy when you're trying to promote an certain way of behavior or "conduct" if you like, hence the whole concept of an honor code.

If I'm in the mood for a good game of fast paced, gun blazing, multiplayer action, then what are my alternatives? I can play Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Enemy Territores, CounterStrike, Medal of Honor, BattleField 1942, Unreal Tournament 2003, Quake3 ... in fact there are dozens of games to choose from. Now, if I'm in the mood for some great, non-balistic, close encounter multiplayer action with tons of cool moves and a strong element of outsmarting your opponent (rather than who has the quickest reflexes), I can just go play ... what? As far as I know my choices consist of JA and JO (and to a certain degree Rune, but it had a lot less moves). This is the one fact that most of the "codehaters" (as weiderudare so nicely put it) fail to realize: There are so many other games where one can blast away as one pleases, but only JA/JO where one can combat the enemies with a blade (be it of steel or light). The reference to KotOR is invalid since it is a singleplayer game and so is the reference to SW Galaxies since it utilizes the typical MMORPG "gameplay" where you observe the action instead of taking part in it.

I am of course making a huge assumption by siding "codehaters" with gun wielders and "codelovers" with saberists, but more often than not, this assumption seems to be correct.

I don't mind admitting that I prefer to use a light saber when I play JO/JA, be it in singleplayer or multiplayer mode, and I also don't mind admitting that I usually just use absorb in order to neutralize an opponents force power use so I can focus on swinging the saber. If I want to play around with guns I go play ET or BF1942, but to me, and apparently to a lot of other people too, the embodiment of the Star Wars universe is the light saber. I've already stated that this does not entitle me to run around acting like a spoiled brat and whine all the time ... but it would also be nice if both sides would speak the acronym FFA out loud: Free For All. Not just "FREE to do as you please no matter what the other players say or who you piss off". Not just "this and this rule applies to ALL of you too".

FREE FOR ALL. Is it really so hard to refrain from ruining an otherwise great game for other people by being/acting like an ass?

Luc Solar
10-11-2003, 04:55 PM
This was my sig a while back:

Luc's code of honour: Don't be an ass.

That's all it takes, really >> Don't be an ass. But "unfortunately" we do have 5-14 year-olds playing this game. We got Star Wars nerds and people with an IQ below 80. We got dumb, insecure egoistic jerks playing the game.

What I'm asking is: quit bitching and play the game. If no-one whines, everything is just fine. Whining is the enemy. If you have a silly code of honour, go ahead and live by it but don't whine when other's don't. It's that simple. :)

Don't be an ass. Don't whine. :)

vert1go
10-11-2003, 05:01 PM
So if I told you that by performing a certain action you could instantly wipe out every other player in the game ... you would do it without a second thought, right? Just like the ridiculous bunny-jumping (pardon me: strafe jumping to be correct ... I think) exploit in Quake based games? Or the shooting through virtually ANY material in Counter Strike or whatever bug, exploit, inconsistency, you name it, can be found in basically every game engine (ALL programs contain errors ... it is only a question of how many and how critical they are). Strafe jumping was intentionally programmed into both the quake 2 and quake 3 engine, it was initially a 'bug' in quake 1 but it was so popular with fans of the game that ID software decided to keep it in. Calling it an exploit or rediculous just makes you totally ignorant, god knows why you display hostility towards this perfectly legitimate technique, I dread to think what else is an 'exploit' in your book.


Luc Solar has the perfect player attitude with this quote:

What I'm asking is: quit bitching and play the game. If no-one whines, everything is just fine. Whining is the enemy. If you have a silly code of honour, go ahead and live by it but don't whine when other's don't. It's that simple. This game so badly needs more people who think this way.

KaiaSowapit
10-11-2003, 05:34 PM
Anyway, does anyone know the CVAR for stopping people shooting other people while they are chatting?

I don't know of a CVAR, but I can think of a few commands: team spectator, disconnect, and quit. In all seriousness, I'm not defending the "nobility" of whacking someone with their chat window up, but let's not confuse this game with a chat utility/application. If your ego just can't stand the thought of someone taking advantage of you whilst your guard is down, then those are your most viable options.

I think it's ironic (and hypocritical) that those whom condemn others as "lamers" for being so obsessed with winning points rather than just having "fun" are also the most distressed and outspoken about losing points to these so-called "lamers." Honestly folks, you can't have it both ways.

Now, if I'm in the mood for some great, non-balistic, close encounter multiplayer action with tons of cool moves and a strong element of outsmarting your opponent (rather than who has the quickest reflexes), I can just go play ... what?

Let's see... chess? How bout poker? Off the top of my head, those are what come to mind if you want to eliminate reflexes from the equation. Not to sound pompous, but as someone old enough to have seen Star Wars on opening night in '77, I'm fairly confident reflexes have as much to do with the average teenager whoopin' me in Academy as being "outsmarted."

I am of course making a huge assumption by siding "codehaters" with gun wielders and "codelovers" with saberists, but more often than not, this assumption seems to be correct.

Yes you are making a huge assumption. But nevertheless, you are aware there are quite a few "saber-only" even "saber-only, no Force" servers available for you to play on, aren't you? And if one-on-one action is more your bag, there's also plenty of "Duel" servers to choose from. Where's the problem?

And yes the acronym is "Free For All." And the only predetermined, Raven-approved (and thusly Lucas-approved) rule I'm aware of is "Defeat your enemies to score points!" There's no mention of "Defeat your enemies, but bow first..." or "Defeat your enemies unless they've disabled their saber or have their chat window up..."

But I digress. Really our opinions about "honor codes" are not relevant to the spirit of this thread.

You'd like people to speak the acronym FFA out loud. I'd like more people to say to themselves "it's just a game."

Allow me cite another example:

One day I'm on my server, and some "fellow" is handily beating everyone else by at least a margin of six to one (no exaggeration, literally). That said, every time someone was lucky enough to clock him one (which was infrequent), he'd exclaim "BULL****!!!" (again, no exaggeration, literally).

After about ninety minutes of this and at least three matches in his favor, I had the nerve to say, "golly, for someone winning you sure have a lousy attitude." His deluge of "comebacks" aren't fit to repeat in this forum, but I'm sure if you use your imagination you can guess at what they were.

Fittingly, his distraction in coming up with new ways of insulting my lineage, sexual adequacy and political affiliation gave someone else the opportunity to win that particular match (no it wasn't me, but that's beside the point). This led to a whole new batch of vulgarities and ultimately I had to kick him off the server.

An extreme example, but this is EXACTLY the kind of pinhead that makes the game unbearable at times.

fatBastard()
10-11-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by: vert1go
Strafe jumping was intentionally programmed into both the quake 2 and quake 3 engine, it was initially a 'bug' in quake 1 but it was so popular with fans of the game that ID software decided to keep it in. Calling it an exploit or rediculous just makes you totally ignorant, god knows why you display hostility towards this perfectly legitimate technique, I dread to think what else is an 'exploit' in your book.
And this attitude doesn't fall into the: "It's in the game, so use it" category?

If I pick up a pile of dog droppings, put it on a plate, serve it at a dinner party as being chocolate pudding and the guests like it, does that mean that the dog droppings has magically been transformed into chocolate pudding? No my friend, not by a long shot. Just because Id chose to let the bug remain in the engine, it is still a bug.

Do you honestly believe it is intentional that you can strafe jump faster than a regularly player can run with force speed on level 3 in a saber only CTY (Capture the Ysalami) match in JO? (i.e. you can't catch the strafe jumper in any way). How about the multitude of different ways that have been tried to stop the bunny jumping problem in CS ... they did that just for the hell of it?

And now ...

Originally posted by: KaiaSowapit
Let's see... chess? How bout poker? Off the top of my head, those are what come to mind if you want to eliminate reflexes from the equation.
Touché. Well, that serves me right for using one of your quotes out of context:rolleyes: What I MEANT to say (and I suspect you know this already) was of course: "Now, if I'm in the mood for some great, non-balistic, close encounter MELEE multiplayer action with tons of cool moves and a strong element of outsmarting your opponent (rather than who has the quickest reflexes), I can just go play ... what?"

Originally posted by: KaiaSowapit
And if one-on-one action is more your bag, there's also plenty of "Duel" servers to choose from. Where's the problem?
The problem is that I actually want to PLAY the game, not sit around watching other people play from anything between 5-30 minutes before I get the chance to fight for 30 seconds (or a few minutes if I win a couple of rounds) and then go back to watching all over again. Though only a single duel challenge can take place at a time in FFA (and none on your server :D), there is a chance that other equally minded players want to "duel", even if a challenge has not been made. This is not saying that I would like for everyone to just wait their turn to duel (if you're willing to wait then I agree that you should go to a duel server) and if that is what the others are doing then I'll rather get my ass served to me while trying to defeat a grip spammer or a "ForceQuake" player (that one time in 5 or 10 that I actually get him is a lot more sweet than the other 4-9 times are sour :D)

Originally posted by: KaiaSowapit
... you are aware there are quite a few "saber-only" even "saber-only, no Force" servers available for you to play on, aren't you?
Yes well, I have to admit that (probably) due to the weird master server thingy I can find less than a handful of servers were the ping is even halfway decent, so right now my choices are rather limited. In theory you are correct of course ;)

Regarding your example about the complete and utter ass, well I couldn't agree with you more. There is no defense/reason for behavior like that. It doesn't matter whether you are abusing the "honor code" conduct to avoid getting your heinie roasted or you're abusing the option to chat by spewing unpleasantries all over the place or whatever else you can think of that will stop other people from having fun (and that includes accusing others of cheating/exploiting simply because they are better than you).

KaiaSowapit
10-11-2003, 07:43 PM
Touché. Well, that serves me right for using one of your quotes out of context What I MEANT to say (and I suspect you know this already) was of course: "Now, if I'm in the mood for some great, non-balistic, close encounter MELEE multiplayer action with tons of cool moves and a strong element of outsmarting your opponent (rather than who has the quickest reflexes), I can just go play ... what?"

To the best of my knowledge... nothing. Even with "honor codes" JK2 & Academy ain't it. But should you stumble onto something, let me know 'cause it sounds fun! :)

The problem is that I actually want to PLAY the game, not sit around watching other people...

That precisely sums up how I feel about "honor codes." I wanna get in and start playing, rather than sit and wait around for some nitwit to decide he/she is finally ready to start fighting. At least on a Duel server, you know when your turn is up, the gloves are off.

Nothing is more frustrating than joining my own server to find a couple of nincompoops trying to bully/brainwash everyone else into believing that attacking someone with their saber down is a big no-no (some even attempt to turn the server into a big, stupid clan-recruitment site). And it's even more annoying when they turn around and try to accuse me of being a "n00b/lamer" for saying those rules don't apply here.

Some are even so ignorant they have the nerve to "remind" me that because it's a "public" server, I don't have the right to tell them how to behave. Frankly, I don't know where these idiots got the impression public server = public service.

BTW, remind me to politely turn down the pudding if I'm ever invited to one of your dinner parties. :)

vert1go
10-11-2003, 08:46 PM
Do you honestly believe it is intentional that you can strafe jump faster than a regularly player can run with force speed on level 3 in a saber only CTY (Capture the Ysalami) match in JO? (i.e. you can't catch the strafe jumper in any way). How about the multitude of different ways that have been tried to stop the bunny jumping problem in CS ... they did that just for the hell of it? This game was made using the quake 3 arena engine.. strafe jumping was intentionally programmed into the quake 3 engine by ID software, the creators of the engine. If Raven did not want people to strafe jump, then guess what... they would of programmed it out, just like Medal of Honor, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Enemy Territory, just to name a few examples where the developers removed the ability to strafe jump, all games based on the quake 3 engine, just like jk2/jka.

Did Raven remove the ability to strafe jump in multiplayer? No they didn't, although they CERTAINLY could have because if you didn't notice.. in Jedi Academy Singe Player, you cannot strafe jump. (However you can still circle jump to an extent :))

As for your example of someone with no force out strafe-jumping someone running with force speed, well.. yeah, is that so surprising? Running without jumping results in a fixed speed, that speed can never be exceeded. Strafe jumping has no speed limit, each jump results in acceleration, so of course someone strafe jumping will eventually accelerate to being faster than someone just running at a constant speed. But if the person with force speed started strafe jumping (which unless they are newbie they will) they will effortlessly catch the forceless strafe jumper.

So yes, it is most obviously intentional, because if it was not intended then strafe jumping would have been coded out. This is obvious when you look at it from an objective stance, rather than the way you come across which is: You hate strafe jumping and therefore cannot accept it's presence in the game so therefore it must be a bug/exploit or some such nonsense.

It's in the game, it was left there intentionally, deal with it or don't play.

g//plaZma
10-11-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by vert1go
This game was made using the quake 3 arena engine.. strafe jumping was intentionally programmed into the quake 3 engine by ID software, the creators of the engine. If Raven did not want people to strafe jump, then guess what... they would of programmed it out, just like Medal of Honor, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Enemy Territory, just to name a few examples where the developers removed the ability to strafe jump, all games based on the quake 3 engine, just like jk2/jka.

Did Raven remove the ability to strafe jump in multiplayer? No they didn't, although they CERTAINLY could have because if you didn't notice.. in Jedi Academy Singe Player, you cannot strafe jump. (However you can still circle jump to an extent :))

As for your example of someone with no force out strafe-jumping someone running with force speed, well.. yeah, is that so surprising? Running without jumping results in a fixed speed, that speed can never be exceeded. Strafe jumping has no speed limit, each jump results in acceleration, so of course someone strafe jumping will eventually accelerate to being faster than someone just running at a constant speed. But if the person with force speed started strafe jumping (which unless they are newbie they will) they will effortlessly catch the forceless strafe jumper.

So yes, it is most obviously intentional, because if it was not intended then strafe jumping would have been coded out. This is obvious when you look at it from an objective stance, rather than the way you come across which is: You hate strafe jumping and therefore cannot accept it's presence in the game so therefore it must be a bug/exploit or some such nonsense.

It's in the game, it was left there intentionally, deal with it or don't play.

Actually, I believe there are ways to strafe-jump in ET and RtCW (I can confirm that you can in ET, and probably RtCW since ET was based off of RtCW). But MoH had it coded out. So yes, it was intended to be in the game.

JA in fact made it easier to strafe-jump as opposed to JO.

vert1go
10-11-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
Actually, I believe there are ways to strafe-jump in ET and RtCW (I can confirm that you can in ET, and probably RtCW since ET was based off of RtCW). But MoH had it coded out. So yes, it was intended to be in the game.

JA in fact made it easier to strafe-jump as opposed to JO. Yeah I know what you mean, in rtcw/et you can use strafe jumping on slanted surfaces and also perform connected circle-jumps to travel faster than normal, also you can *sort of* use overbounce'esque jumps hehe, but not to quake3's extent, and it normally ends up giving fall damage and stopping you instantly. I was more referring really to the original quake style of strafe jumping, which as you know is much different.

Also I agree about the easier strafe jumping in jka, it still feels incredibly floaty though, kind of wish they would adopt a similar jumping feel to the way quake3's is.


(edited)

g//plaZma
10-11-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by vert1go
Yeah I know what you mean, in rtcw/et you can use strafe jumping on slanted surfaces and also perform connected circle-jumps to travel faster than normal, also you can *sort of* use overbounce'esque jumps hehe, but not to quake3's extent, and it normally ends up giving fall damage and stopping you instantly. I was more referring really to the original quake style of strafe jumping, which as you know is much different.

Yeah, you could do that and move your mouse left and right (to change the direction where you're looking) as you're jumping forward to increase your speed. (the sprint key accompanying this also worked well) I assume this is what you meant by connected circle-jumps though.

vert1go
10-11-2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
Yeah, you could do that and move your mouse left and right (to change the direction where you're looking) as you're jumping forward to increase your speed. (the sprint key accompanying this also worked well) I assume this is what you meant by connected circle-jumps though. Yup, exactly what I meant. =]

Oops.. kinda dragging this thread off-topic. :x

ON TOPIC:

Bot-play is fine for practicing/learning maps, in my opinion.. but it doesn't compare to the challenge and enjoyment of online play against real people who actually stand a chance of beating you hehe.

Perhaps someone should actually create some hard bots.. ones that have insane aim/movement skills (abilities beyond the human capability)... it's been done in other games and actually makes for semi-decent practice.

fatBastard()
10-11-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by: vert1go
It's in the game, it was left there intentionally, deal with it or don't play.
Wow, in one sentence you managed to hit 2 out of 3 of the examples I gave earlier of the typical arguments an exploiter uses. Not only: "It is in the game, so use it" but also "If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else". It seems I hit the nail spot on in my earlier comment :D

Perhaps you can explain to me why Raven bothered with making walking/running animations for all the models when all we are going to see anyway are people in the constantly crouch-like jumping position zooming across the map? Why did they even bother making the force speed power when it is useless anyway? Why the head bob issue when your feet practically never touch the ground? While we're at it, it seems to me Raven screwed up with several of the weapons too since their shots are to slow to catch up to the strafe jumping players.

What bothers me about exploits like strafe jumping is simply that when 1 person starts doing it, everybody else HAVE to do it too (I refer to my example with the CTY situation). Then when everybody is strafe jumping around like imbeciles on speed, somebody comes up with a new scheme/exploit that will give him/her an advantage over the rest (it is apparently not enough just to be better/more skilled than the others). For a little while that person will dominate the game until the others find out what it is he/she has been doing and then they start doing it too. Lather, Rince, Repeat. Lather, Rince, Repeat. In the end, the result is always the same: The game loses all of its appeal and dies out for all but a small group of die hard fans. :(

Anyway, you are right when you say that we've gotten off topic, so I'll shut up now ;)

g//plaZma
10-11-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by fatBastard()
What bothers me about exploits like strafe jumping is simply that when 1 person starts doing it, everybody else HAVE to do it too (I refer to my example with the CTY situation). Then when everybody is strafe jumping around like imbeciles on speed, somebody comes up with a new scheme/exploit that will give him/her an advantage over the rest (it is apparently not enough just to be better/more skilled than the others). For a little while that person will dominate the game until the others find out what it is he/she has been doing and then they start doing it too. Lather, Rince, Repeat. Lather, Rince, Repeat. In the end, the result is always the same: The game loses all of its appeal and dies out for all but a small group of die hard fans. :(

Again, strafe-jumping is not an exploit! If you so strongly believe it is, report it to Raven. It's been in the quake3 engine for quite a while now and the JO/JA programmers have left it in. It seems they have altered it in JA, even meaning they know it's there. Strafe-jumping is not something you get used to right away, either meaning if you have better timing, you will outrun a newbie at strafe-jumping. (BTW, have you ever tried using a speed-rage+strafejump combo in CTY to return a flag? It works pretty well. So does regular speed-strafejump)

These "schemes/exploit" things you talk about give the game depth. Without more things to learn, gameplay isn't really worth much. There will always be people who think of new strategies to kill their oponents.

Rumor
10-11-2003, 10:27 PM
wait...did he just say sj'ing is an exploit?

let me pause for a few minutes so i can abate my laughter.

HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

whew glad thats over.

sounds like someone kept getting owned so they made up the "its lame/an exploit" excuse.

vert1go
10-11-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by fatBastard()
Wow, in one sentence you managed to hit 2 out of 3 of the examples I gave earlier of the typical arguments an exploiter uses. Not only: "It is in the game, so use it" but also "If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else". It seems I hit the nail spot on in my earlier comment :D Hmm yeah? So what exactly is your point.. my comments were valid: It is in the game, intentionally might I add, and you have two choices, deal with it, or don't play. Can't see what you are getting at really. There is no more to it than that.

Giddamon
10-11-2003, 11:06 PM
First off I must say that all the immature/whining losers around are definitely wasting JA & JO. I agree with the ones who say that SW jerks should return to study line by line the movies scripts or their "for 10- yo people" comics instead to annoy players who just want to have some fun and action.

Second off, I'm definitely SICK to join a FFA server with 16 players and 4 of them are dueling while the others are in a corner talking to each other! Dudes, FFA = deadthmatch! If you want to have a chat join IRC or AIM or whatever.

Third thing, I do call "lamers" people who chatkill or kill people with saber off (maybe they are just talking at the phone or they went down to the kitchen for a coke!) because that's plain stupid IMO. Where's the fun to kill someone who cannot defend himself?

Fourth Thing, I do call "lamers" those who use kickcs (and kicks exclusively) in JO. I met some people who bragged about being the best JO player ever just because they could kill people on NarShada map using the kicks+grip script (even my 4 yo cousin can press a key to activate a bind...) then you challenge them to a duel and they don't even know how to do a yellow special or a side flip! I mean, where's the fun in getting kill not because you are skilled but because you exploit some silly bug of the game. That's like completing all SP games using cheats: no fun at all!

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-12-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by vert1go


Perhaps someone should actually create some hard bots.. ones that have insane aim/movement skills (abilities beyond the human capability)... it's been done in other games and actually makes for semi-decent practice.

I made the mistake of doing that on my instagib server and people hated it. Fast and super-accurate bots + one-hit-kill instagib disruptor rifles = hell. They literally were "aimbots". I had to really tone them down.

I can't wait for the new and improved bot routes that Darth Kaan and T-bone are doing. If my enhanced bots had better routes to run they could actually be semi-useful balancing teams during CTF

g//plaZma
10-12-2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by Giddamon
First off I must say that all the immature/whining losers around are definitely wasting JA & JO. I agree with the ones who say that SW jerks should return to study line by line the movies scripts or their "for 10- yo people" comics instead to annoy players who just want to have some fun and action.

Second off, I'm definitely SICK to join a FFA server with 16 players and 4 of them are dueling while the others are in a corner talking to each other! Dudes, FFA = deadthmatch! If you want to have a chat join IRC or AIM or whatever.

Third thing, I do call "lamers" people who chatkill or kill people with saber off (maybe they are just talking at the phone or they went down to the kitchen for a coke!) because that's plain stupid IMO. Where's the fun to kill someone who cannot defend himself?

Fourth Thing, I do call "lamers" those who use kickcs (and kicks exclusively) in JO. I met some people who bragged about being the best JO player ever just because they could kill people on NarShada map using the kicks+grip script (even my 4 yo cousin can press a key to activate a bind...) then you challenge them to a duel and they don't even know how to do a yellow special or a side flip! I mean, where's the fun in getting kill not because you are skilled but because you exploit some silly bug of the game. That's like completing all SP games using cheats: no fun at all!

You sound like one of those "immature whining losers" you have spoke about.

Luc Solar
10-12-2003, 07:00 AM
Saying strafe jumping is an bug/exploit is like saying katas are an bug/exploit. They are both intentionally in the game and thus meant to be used.

We can, however, debate on wether or not katas or strafe jumping is "cool". Is seeing Jedi's bounce around instead of running Star Warsy and cool? I think it is kinda silly and unrealistic, but gives more depth to the GAME. It's not LIEK TEH MOVIEZ, but makes the GAME more interesting. I guess it all comes down to which we value more; the game or the Star Warsyness.

I do hate the "it's in the game" argument as such. Map glitches are in the game. You can create scripts that perform combos with the press of a single button. The energize-script, the saber lock script..bleah. :(

KaiaSowapit
10-12-2003, 08:20 AM
I still don't get the rationale, "saber down = defenseless." Honestly, can someone explain this to me? What are we talking 'bout here folks... a button click to reactivate your saber? What's that take, a nano-second?

If instead we're talking about the need for some universal gesture that communicates "hey, I'm just watching... not fighting" - that's EXACTLY what spectator mode is for. (It's also precisely what television is for... perhaps you're sitting in front of the wrong screen?)

But wait, you say you don't want to lose your "oh so precious" ranking while you go to the washroom? Here's a thought: CROSS YOUR LEGS!

Need to answer the phone or get a soda out of the kitchen? WHERE ARE YOUR PRIORITIES, MAN??! The Empire/Rebellion NEEDS YOU! YOU'RE THEIR ONLY HOPE!!!

Seriously people, take a deep breath and repeat after me... "it's just a game." I promise you'll feel better. Pick up a newspaper; there's REAL tragedy and injustice all over the world we live in. If you're going to get all bent out of shape simply because some twerp clobbered your "virtual Jedi" whilst you were away from the keyboard fetching snicker doodles or something... get over it.

As for the recent tangent this thread has taken regarding exploits, let me point out that one person's "bug" is just as often another person's "feature." Discussing this is not the point of this thread... not whining about it IS (which is exactly what some of you are doing). Please submit bug reports on a different thread, or better still to Raven directly.

AND MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU! :)

Giddamon
10-12-2003, 08:31 AM
Saying strafe jumping is an bug/exploit is like saying katas are an bug/exploit. They are both intentionally in the game and thus meant to be used.
I agree with you, but IMO JO kicks are bugged as there's no way you can kill a being with 3 kicks! Not even if you are Bruce Lee :D

You can create scripts that perform combos with the press of a single button
Scripts aren't "in the game", they are made by people who can't press more than two keys at once :p

You sound like one of those "immature whining losers" you have spoke about.
And you sound like one of those whiners that chatkill and kick-grip all the time ;)

Seriously, I'm not one of those whiners who call a vote to kick everyone who kill them twice in a row, I hate those servers where people insult each other instead of playing and personally I couldn't care less if someone kills me in some "not regular" way because:

1. It's just a game!

2. Hell, who give a damn ****! It's just a game :p

However, I do think that repeated use of chatkill just to increase the kills count is...sad. IMHO of course ;)

KaiaSowapit
10-12-2003, 09:03 AM
IMO JO kicks are bugged as there's no way you can kill a being with 3 kicks! Not even if you are Bruce Lee

First off, may I kindly remind you this section of the forums is regarding Jedi Academy?

Second off, and I hope this isn't a terrible shock, there's no such thing as lightsabers, the Force, or Kel Dor warriors. (Sorry, but it's true.)

The point of this thread is to vent about "whiney" Jedi and how they're disrupting the community. Which you're welcome to argue is a form of whining itself - nevertheless that's the point, and only point of this particular thread.

And you sound like one of those whiners that chatkill and kick-grip all the time ;)

And your mother wears Army boots. Betcha my dad can beat up your dad. Blah blah blah.

Unless you're trying to satirize "whiney" Jedi... please take these kinds of comments someplace else.

Thanks! :)

Nehebkau
10-12-2003, 09:26 AM
Need to answer the phone or get a soda out of the kitchen? WHERE ARE YOUR PRIORITIES, MAN??! The Empire/Rebellion NEEDS YOU! YOU'RE THEIR ONLY HOPE!!!

Seriously people, take a deep breath and repeat after me... "it's just a game."

Ah you just contradicted yourself. I have my priorities straight I'm gonna answer my phone because someone I know personally is trying to get ahold of me, I then shall put my saber down and ask politely if you would kindly not attack because I am not at my keyboard at the moment. Is it to much to ask that if I am somewhere away from the action in a remote location that you please don't try and hunt me down so that you can add another kill to your score card?

KaiaSowapit
10-12-2003, 10:33 AM
Ah you just contradicted yourself.

I was being facetious, i.e.: an attempt at levity... humor. Something drastically lacking from your character if you can't get over the notion that someone might dare take advantage of the fact you've stepped away from the game momentarily. That's my whole point.

Honestly, would you expect the Super Bowl to come to a grinding halt just because some linebacker decided to answer his cell phone mid-game? Is it not equally ridiculous to presume everyone would continue playing and simply avoid his little area of the pitch?

What you may have never considered is all those "rude" and "inconsiderate" players sharing the server with you may have asked their mates in advance not to call them whilst they are playing - or perhaps they're simply letting their answering machines/voice mail take care of it. As for going to the bathroom or fetching a drink... perhaps they literally ARE crossing their legs or doing without. I'm not saying that they're more noble or better than you for sake of it... just that it's a possibility you may want to consider.

As I said before, you can't be reasonable and expect to have it both ways. You can't begrudge someone for "hunting you down" to "add another kill" to their "scorecard" and at the same time be stubbornly unwilling to join spectator mode just to maintain your own score.

That my friend, truly is a contradiction.

Giddamon
10-12-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
First off, may I kindly remind you this section of the forums is regarding Jedi Academy?
Don't worry, I'm aware of that. I was just using the JO kicks as a proof (maybe the wrong proof, ok...) against those who say that it's ok to exploit every single bug in the JK games in general. Like you said in the previous post: "this thread is to vent about "whiney" Jedi and how they're disrupting the community".

Second off, and I hope this isn't a terrible shock, there's no such thing as lightsabers, the Force, or Kel Dor warriors. (Sorry, but it's true.)
Oh no, the shock!! :p
BTW, what the hell is a "Kel Dor warrior"? :confused:


Unless you're trying to satirize "whiney" Jedi...
Yup, actually I was exactly trying to do that, note the emoticon at the end of that sentence and the following "Seriously". Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a touchy loser boy ;)

g//plaZma
10-12-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Giddamon
And you sound like one of those whiners that chatkill and kick-grip all the time ;)

Correct about the chatkill and the gk (was that supposed to be an insult?). But you sound like one of those guys who don't know how to use force push. Pretty useful. Last I checked, gk in JK2 wasn't an exploit/bug. Please learn the game dynamics before posting "OMG GK IS TEH LAMEZ0R." Thanks.

Giddamon
10-12-2003, 01:16 PM
Meh...picky people you are, aren't you? :D

Just read my comment above and FYI when I use this ---> ;) emoticon it means I'm joking and/or I'm being sarcastic :p

My (personal) opinion about gk is simple: kicks are part of the game so you can use them (i.e. in JA they could be used like a valid counter move to rolls) but it's also true that 90% of people play JK games because they like to use lightsabers and force so I personally think that overusing kicks (i.e. some people don't even bother to turn on their sabers...) ruin the fun for other players so I consider lamers those who *exclusively* use kicks during FFAs and/or duels.

Just my 2 cents and anyway let me say that being chat killed or kicked to death all the time isn't a reason to insult people or, worse, make moronic racist comments on them :mad:

Cryptoguy
10-12-2003, 01:59 PM
Lets face it you get dickheads everywhere..why should JKA servers be an exception ? The fact is people will take advantage of honer codes etc..why? simply cuz they can and they wanna be the 1st to reach the kill limit.

I have a problem with these campers that stand by a long drop off waiting for an unsuspecting player to come along to grip and throw em over IMO that is truley lame or a guy will come when your battling his friend and hold you up in a grip so his friend can finish you off there is no use of skill by either player (I noticed the German players use this trick alot) .

The fact people will wanna argue with you no matter what ..just look at some chat rooms !!!

As the saying goes "Fighting on the internet is like running in the special olympics ! .. it doesnt who wins there still a retard"

Cryptoguy
10-12-2003, 02:05 PM
oops

Giddamon
10-12-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Cryptoguy
...I have a problem with these campers that stand by a long drop off waiting for an unsuspecting player to come along to grip and throw em over IMO that is truley lame
You may use force sight

Originally posted by Cryptoguy
or a guy will come when your battling his friend and hold you up in a grip so his friend can finish you off there is no use of skill by either player.
So there isn't skill by the player who get choked without using protection or force push

Originally posted by Cryptoguy As the saying goes "Fighting on the internet is like running in the special olympics ! .. it doesnt matter who wins there still a retard" Definitely a sad joke...
BTW, maybe who wins is just the most skilled (or lucky) player on that server?

Cryptoguy
10-12-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Giddamon
You may use force sight


So there isn't skill by the player who get choked without using protection or force push

Definitely a sad joke...
BTW, maybe who wins is just the most skilled (or lucky) player on that server?

Try english next time

yes you can use sight but that still dosnt negate the fact that there a camper ! and people usauly have very little force power left when there in the middle of a saber battle to push or protect ... not as sad as some people I've seen on JK servers

vert1go
10-12-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Cryptoguy
Lets face it you get dickheads everywhere..why should JKA servers be an exception ? The fact is people will take advantage of honer codes etc..why? simply cuz they can and they wanna be the 1st to reach the kill limit.

I have a problem with these campers that stand by a long drop off waiting for an unsuspecting player to come along to grip and throw em over IMO that is truley lame or a guy will come when your battling his friend and hold you up in a grip so his friend can finish you off there is no use of skill by either player (I noticed the German players use this trick alot) .

The fact people will wanna argue with you no matter what ..just look at some chat rooms !!!

As the saying goes "Fighting on the internet is like running in the special olympics ! .. it doesnt who wins there still a retard" Wow.. cry some more?

Just because you don't like the way somebody plays, it doesn't mean that they are doing anything wrong. Playing online will always present you with a multitude of techniques.. thats the FUN of it. People are not going to always play in a way you like, and why the hell should they?

Oh, and grip can always be instantly escaped with push/pull, unless you are inexperienced enough to have emptied your force pool using too many kata's/special-moves/other force powers. Maybe if you were to get better at force allocation you would have no problem against these 'campers' lol.

Cryptoguy
10-12-2003, 03:00 PM
PMSL @ force allocation . :D

I have no problem with people using grip I use it to great effect . I was just making a point about people that just hang around using this method all the time ..another point I forgot to add that these guys usauly have there sabers down so I dont attack em only to be attacked my self :confused:
Hell its only a game I dont get that bothered about it but I think these guys take alot of the enjoyment out of it thats all .

g//plaZma
10-12-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Cryptoguy
Try english next time

yes you can use sight but that still dosnt negate the fact that there a camper ! and people usauly have very little force power left when there in the middle of a saber battle to push or protect ... not as sad as some people I've seen on JK servers

lol... This's the first time I've heard someone complaining about campers in JO/JA. Seriously, this is like a guy in Q3/UT complaining and calling someone a camper because they killed him while he had no ammo left. It's not anyones fault if you have no force in your force pool left after a "saber battle." Just come back and take care of him after you respawn because last time I checked, when you respawn, you have full force and health.

Giddamon
10-12-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Cryptoguy
Try english next time

yes you can use sight but that still dosnt negate the fact that there a camper ! and people usauly have very little force power left when there in the middle of a saber battle to push or protect ... not as sad as some people I've seen on JK servers

:rolleyes:

Pay attention to tpyos :D

Cryptoguy
10-12-2003, 03:43 PM
Round of applause to you:D

now make a valid point :eek:

Luc Solar
10-12-2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Cryptoguy
..another point I forgot to add that these guys usauly have there sabers down so I dont attack em only to be attacked my self :confused:

Yet another proof of the fact that "saber down = peace" is a easily and constantly abused dumbass rule that results in nothing but whining. :)

Kurgan
10-12-2003, 04:03 PM
Saber down = Lighting you up like a Christmas tree with my Force Lightning, because even though my saber is off, I can still fight!


Next time I see that "saber off=peace" rule whined to me in-game, I'm going to switch to fists and go around grip/drain/lightning/rage people to death, and if they attack me, I'll claim they should be kicked because they "violated the rule." Heh...

Nehebkau
10-12-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Saber down = Lighting you up like a Christmas tree with my Force Lightning, because even though my saber is off, I can still fight!


Next time I see that "saber off=peace" rule whined to me in-game, I'm going to switch to fists and go around grip/drain/lightning/rage people to death, and if they attack me, I'll claim they should be kicked because they "violated the rule." Heh...

Yes, but then again "Saber off = Peace" no attacking would also apply to you, and since you are attacking people in the game with your saber down you would be breaking the rules and deserved to be kicked. The rule never said who's saber had to be down, it just plainly stated if a persons saber is down don't attack.
:jawa

Oh by the way, if you attack someone with their saber down while yours is down also that would be breaking the same rule twice. just fyi

KaiaSowapit
10-12-2003, 06:31 PM
My 24/7 dedicated server has changed ip's... you'll have to direct connect until Raven figures out their whole Master Server boondoggle. The new address is:

66.98.177.21

Jedi vs. Merc on
Grapple on
Sabers must be lowered to use offensive Force powers
low pings
voting disabled

Laming welcome; whining ain't (excessive whining WILL get you kicked ;))

KaiaSowapit
10-12-2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Nehebkau
Yes, but then again "Saber off = Peace" no attacking would also apply to you, and since you are attacking people in the game with your saber down you would be breaking the rules and deserved to be kicked. The rule never said who's saber had to be down, it just plainly stated if a persons saber is down don't attack.
:jawa

Oh by the way, if you attack someone with their saber down while yours is down also that would be breaking the same rule twice. just fyi

Here ya go Nehebkau...

http://www.geocities.com/melodymlp/sunsparkle.jpg

Have fun! (http://www.geocities.com/melodymlp/) :)

http://www.geocities.com/melodymlp/btie.gif http://www.geocities.com/melodymlp/bmoon.gif

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-12-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
My 24/7 dedicated server has changed ip's... you'll have to direct connect until Raven figures out their whole Master Server boondoggle. The new address is:

66.98.177.21


Laming welcome; whining ain't (excessive whining WILL get you kicked ;))

May I suggest you register you server with www.jk3servers.com? It's free and provides another way for players to find your server. We have to do everything we can to help players find our servers until Raven releases the patch.

KaiaSowapit
10-12-2003, 06:53 PM
Thanks Amidala... you're the cat's meow! :)

Giddamon
10-12-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
Here ya go Nehebkau...

ROFL :D

BTW, I think the whole matter is really simple: if the MOTD doesn't specify any rule just kill everybody, no matter if they are chatting, they have sabers off or whatever. and if they kick you for being a "lamer" don't worry, they are the morons.

If the MOTD says something like "No Kicks, Sabers Off = Peace, No ChatKill!" either follow those rules or pick another server.

Am I correct? :confused:

KaiaSowapit
10-12-2003, 08:18 PM
Here's my take on it...

If you own Academy, I'm gonna assume you like Star Wars & combat games.

If I see you on a multiplayer server, I'm gonna assume you're there to play.

If you throw a tantrum and spout out a barrage of insults via the chat command (for ANY reason), I'm going to assume you're immature.

It's that simple. :)

And yes, anyone who knowingly joins a server and goes out of their way to ignore the rules is an ass.

Cryptoguy
10-12-2003, 09:02 PM
:D This just gets better and better ;)

btw I wasnt whining I was pointing out that these guys that just hang around using grip grip grip all day spoil the whole combat aspect of the game :jawa

ps thanx for the link Amidala :)

Nehebkau
10-12-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Giddamon
ROFL :D

BTW, I think the whole matter is really simple: if the MOTD doesn't specify any rule just kill everybody, no matter if they are chatting, they have sabers off or whatever. and if they kick you for being a "lamer" don't worry, they are the morons.

If the MOTD says something like "No Kicks, Sabers Off = Peace, No ChatKill!" either follow those rules or pick another server.

Am I correct? :confused:

Thats pretty much a summed up version of what I have been saying this whole time. You follow the rules the server sets or go somewhere else. The problem here is that everyone has evaded this issue because they relise that this is how the world works and have no arguement over it.

ic0n
10-12-2003, 10:58 PM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/whocares6.jpg

KaiaSowapit
10-12-2003, 11:31 PM
The problem here is that everyone has evaded this issue because they relise that this is how the world works and have no arguement over it.

Please specify what you mean by "here" and "everyone." If you are referring specifically to this thread and those who've commented on it, I suggest you re-read the previous posts more carefully.

No one, to my knowledge, has implied or outright stated that ignoring individual server rules is acceptable behavior. In fact, most have inherently agreed that this is reprehensible.

Again, the point of this thread is to vent (whine if you will) about those who complain excessively (for ANY reason) in game rather than play (or leave).

The intent is to share experiences, perhaps a laugh or two, and maybe even encourage some people to lighten up a bit (at least alter their behavior).

Whether you're pro or con "honor code" rules is irrelevant.

ic0n
10-12-2003, 11:35 PM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/whocares6.jpg

SonGohanX
10-12-2003, 11:55 PM
It's completely crazy. I can't do ANYTHING without accused of laming. I was kick voted like 5 times earlier today. Fortunately there were enough "no" votes (i.e. sane people on the server)

Its not like I'm an outstanding jerk either. If you decide to start talking in the middle of a fight...I'm still going to kill you. If you're standing around looking stupid....I'm still going to kill you. I don't cheat, I don't exploit any bugs....hell, I rarely even use lightning. (mainly because its not allowed on most servers :P)

I'm just amazed, and frustrated at how hard it is to find a decent game.

Please, anyone, feel free to AIM me: (SonGohanX) If you know some good FFA/duel servers that aren't completely overrun by these...."honorists" (I'm also clan-hunting at the moment)

KaiaSowapit: your server was empty =(

I love this game, but where do you guys play?

Master William
10-13-2003, 12:05 AM
All Seeing Eye is your choice. You will find the greatest servers.

www.allseeingeye.com

ic0n
10-13-2003, 01:03 AM
[ Stop spamming, this is your warning. Post that link again and you may be in for a temp ban. ]

KaiaSowapit
10-13-2003, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by ic0n
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/whocares6.jpg

Okay ic0n, if you were going out of your way to demonstrate that you're a jackass, you've succeeded and clearly established that fact.

Darklighter
10-13-2003, 05:59 AM
ic0n, if you have nothing productive to contribute to the discussion, please do not post anything. Spam is strictly prohibited, so cut out the irrelevant comments and everyone will be happy. Cheers.

Kurgan
10-13-2003, 06:52 AM
Yes, but then again "Saber off = Peace" no attacking would also apply to you, and since you are attacking people in the game with your saber down you would be breaking the rules and deserved to be kicked. The rule never said who's saber had to be down, it just plainly stated if a persons saber is down don't attack.

Oh by the way, if you attack someone with their saber down while yours is down also that would be breaking the same rule twice. just fyi

No, according to the rules of honor, a person with their saber off CANNOT BE ATTACKED. Thus if I have no saber, I can attack people with impunity!

Nobody ever says "you attacked me with a gun!" they say "you attacked me while I had my saber off!" Meaning the person with saber off has full diplomatic and martial immunity. I am starting to like this rule more and more... ; )

If I take your interpretation then you can't attack a person with their saber UP either, meaning that no combat is possible, period!

Wudan
10-13-2003, 07:29 PM
I can't abide name calling. Where's the goddamn honor in name-calling? When is calling someone a hacker or a ni**er or a j*w (not really a bad name, just offensive when used to offend, odd how that works out) honorable?

Frankly, I love Kaia's server. I wish people would play there. It's awesome, and there are no rules. I had given up hope on JA MP (seige is not as awesome as it could or SHOULD be), then I played there. Sure, there can be lameness, but it's just a gAMe.