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View Full Version : They messed up...and how to fix it


Johner
10-14-2003, 05:55 AM
Unfortunately the people who made this game allowed servers to have all sorts of cooky options like no force, sabers only, certain force powers only. This takes out critical elements of the game! I think guns/force/saber is all balanced good enough. I remember in the gold old days when a few rare players wouldn’t even use saber, they would just use guns some of them did pretty well and they were certainly fun to play with.

The game isn't being played the way it was meant to in my opinion. People are also allowed to mess around with saber damage and upset the balance all together.

Choice is always better? Not really, if it were 1 TRUE GAME in my opinion it would be better (all force powers available, guns and sabers). Some choice is good though, like the level of Jedi skill allowed and game type etc.

Sure many people have their little peeves like they can't stand grip, or lighting or guns but I truly believe that it is for the greater good that servers have standards so people know what the game is and they can just play and deal with it. This way it is easy to get games going because the standards are the same, it's better than people making their own game like they do now.

I think there should be a patch that is required to start multiplayer player games (and some fixes wouldn't hurt either) and the standards be all guns and sabers, and all force powers. G'day!

babywax
10-14-2003, 06:04 AM
WELL SAID.
All of these little cvars and crap don't help the game, they split up the community JUST LIKE JO MODS!

Kurgan
10-14-2003, 06:18 AM
Unfortunately the people who made this game allowed servers to have all sorts of cooky options like no force, sabers only, certain force powers only. This takes out critical elements of the game! I think guns/force/saber is all balanced good enough. I remember in the gold old days when a few rare players wouldn’t even use saber, they would just use guns some of them did pretty well and they were certainly fun to play with.

The game isn't being played the way it was meant to in my opinion. People are also allowed to mess around with saber damage and upset the balance all together.

Choice is always better? Not really, if it were 1 TRUE GAME in my opinion it would be better (all force powers available, guns and sabers). Some choice is good though, like the level of Jedi skill allowed and game type etc.

Sure many people have their little peeves like they can't stand grip, or lighting or guns but I truly believe that it is for the greater good that servers have standards so people know what the game is and they can just play and deal with it. This way it is easy to get games going because the standards are the same, it's better than people making their own game like they do now.

I think there should be a patch that is required to start multiplayer player games (and some fixes wouldn't hurt either) and the standards be all guns and sabers, and all force powers. G'day!

You have every right to your own opinion and to stick by it, but I have to disagree with you in the strongest way possible on this one.

While I enjoy Full Force all weapons just as much as the next guy, let's take the logic of your argument and run with it...

Here are the default settings for the game:

seta sv_maxclients 16
seta g_inactivity 0
sv_maxRate 10000
set g_allowvote 1
set timelimit 20
set capturelimit 20
set g_autoMapCycle 1

map mp/ffa1


Pretty boring huh?

20 minutes isn't enough to play? Tough luck pal.... that's the default you can't go changing that and messing up how it was meant to be!

Want to have a capture limit of 6? Too bad, you can't change it! Or how about 21? Nope, sorry, that would "ruin the game." Then again forget CTF, that's not the default option...

Also forget about the other gametypes, because all you're getting is FFA, notice the gametype isn't changing now is it? Custom maps? Forget it, all you get are the base 5!

You say you've got a slower connection? Well, you better not change it from 16 players max, that would be wrong!

Etc etc.

Raven recommends changing saberdamagescale to 2 for non duels, and using sabertracesaberfirst only for duels.

Why would they recommend this if they never intended people to use them?


The other thing is saying that Raven never intended for you to use them is silly. If that is the case, why did they give you the options to change those settings? Most of them can be changed right in the menu as well. Fact is, people have been "messing" with these settings for the last four years in the Q3 engine.

You admit they allowed these settings, I say they knew what they were doing. Every engine in the series has customizability. They could have removed cvars if they wanted to, they didn't. So tough beans there I guess?

So go ahead and play with the default settings if you want to.


Plenty of people are whining because they don't like the defaults settings, when one or two tweaks or changes would bring them back to having fun. Is that so wrong?


And now I'm thinking that perhaps this is a strawman of your argument, but seriously, how much change is too much? Which settings are you allowed to change??

And who made made you boss to decide how people who put up the money and time to run servers have to run them?

Yes, some servers do have "lame" combinations of options in my opinion (like disabling lots of stuff in Siege, unbalancing it) and this freedom can be abused, but it can also extend the life of the game. A major strength of the game is the level of customizability for fun that it gives you as the admin. You can run the server you want and if people like it they'll keep coming back.

Hope you see where I'm coming from...

Johner
10-14-2003, 06:19 AM
OH MY GOD SOMEONE ACTUALLY AGREED WITH ME! KUDOS TO YOU!

Kurgan
10-14-2003, 06:32 AM
Each to his own then I guess eh?


But if you ban cvar changes, then I have to use weak sabers, have to settle for useless fists (without grapples or kicks) and can't use dismemberment. And I don't even change that much stuff, my mana regen is normal, game speed is normal, all force powers and guns are allowed (except in Duel, where again, Raven advises sabers only... although I allow pistols and fists just for fun). No thanks...

Iblis Reborn
10-14-2003, 06:34 AM
I personally like to have choice
2day i played the game full force with guns and i loved it
but i dont always wanna play that
sometimes no force is fun
or FF for no guns

i find having all those diffrent options can add to the replay value of the game alot

babywax
10-14-2003, 06:48 AM
Banning of CVars is not what we're talking about. We're talking about taking out all of the saber damage scale/saber blocking/stuff like that cvars. You don't have to take us for the exactly what we wrote, please, interpret!
Dismemberment? Keep that in.
Fists without kicks/grapples? Those two things should have been in the game anyway.
Of course you can change capture limit, of course you can change time limit, those things are easily changable in any game. It's obvious that those things are needed, what I don't like is the vast varying of mana regen time, saber damage scaling (Hate going into a server that doesn't say they have high damage or low damage, then getting all pissed off when all my moves don't work like normal).

Why couldn't you have custom maps? No reason you couldn't.
Just make it a real game, don't make it to where blocking has to be increased in one gameplay mode just so you can play it, balance it correctly!

Iblis Reborn
10-14-2003, 06:52 AM
k you know he was exagerating but i think the bottom line is choice is better

StormHammer
10-14-2003, 07:04 AM
Okay, right...yeah. Whatever.

Guess what - if you want to play the game with the default settings...you can! Find a server that plays with default settings. Or start your own server. Feel free to play the game whichever way you want.

And get this...I'll do exactly the same. I can play the game how I want to play by joining different servers with different settings, and have slightly different experiences. That's how I want to play. If I want to duel with No Force and higher saber damage...I can. If I want to enter a saber only FFA...I can.

I'm sorry, but I find the whole notion of limiting choice in the way you propose as utterly ridiculous. I'm tired of people moaning and whining that they can't get their own way in order to play the game the way they want - to the detriment of everyone else. The simple fact of the matter is that you can play the way you want, by either finding a server with the settings you like, or starting your own.

Limiting choices is never a good thing, IMHO. So stop trying to limit the enjoyment of the rest of the community. Thanks. :cool:

FK | unnamed
10-14-2003, 07:07 AM
umm yeah.

You guys do realize that JA would not even exist if it were not for the popularity of:

g_weapondisable 65531

They made this game on the sole popularity of the saber aspect from JK2.

If anything, finding serves that run full force and full weapons are rare because... people don't want to play them.

Nothing against FW/FF games, but it's not what is drawing people to this series.

And as for more specific things like damage scales, you can’t have an across the board cvar for all game types because the game types themselves are so different.

In duels lower damage works great (NF) but in CTF it’s absurd.

Choice is a good thing.

Not every one likes fish, some people like beef.

Having the option to choose what goes on your plate is good.

razorace
10-14-2003, 07:15 AM
I'm on the middle ground on this.

I understand the need to keep the game servers in a fashion where it's quick and easy to find the game you want to play.

But I also understand the desire for setting customization for the fun factor.

I think the best solution is to have some control cvars but leave out the ubertwicking ones (like individual force power damage settings). Ubertwicking cvars are only really used for abusive purposes (like twinking a single move so you can get kills). If you want to do some indepth twicking, you can always just do a server side mod.

However, I'm pretty heavily against overpowered admin commands. I understand that a LOT of server admins use these powers to farther the cause of the Dark Side.

[div3rse.jello]
10-14-2003, 07:26 AM
I think John just needs to find a server with everything to his liking and stay there.

KaiaSowapit
10-14-2003, 08:15 AM
Though I do understand some of the frustration of the author of this thread, I feel compelled to point out one serious flaw to his/her logic...

Jedi Academy is NOT a subscription based multiplayer game (ala Star Wars Galaxies); your one-time purchase price does not help pay for individual MP servers to run or operate.

Since it is incumbent upon the generosity of individuals like myself to fund/host multiplayer servers, it's our prerogative to tailor the game as we see fit.

You don't have to like it... you also don't have to play on my server.

Raven is welcome to lock-down features specifically to suite your individual taste - just appreciate that if it doesn't suit MY taste, I won't be shelling out the $$$ a month for the "privilege" of granting you a dedicated server to play on.

How might that impact your playing experience? Maybe a little, maybe a lot. Just imagine if Raven tried to appeal to the crowd who prefers "kooky" options like no force, sabers only. How happy would you be then? Keep in mind your "1 TRUE GAME" is a totally subjective opinion.

babywax
10-14-2003, 08:25 AM
The only way to solve the problem is to make a GOOD SERVER browser instead of this thing that offers no filters and doesn't display whether or not a server has force only correctly. It's the same exact server browser, and you can't even search for a server! If they implemented this then I would be fine, but if you have all of these darned cvars and no way to find what you want it only hurts.

Kurgan
10-14-2003, 08:32 AM
The only way to solve the problem is to make a GOOD SERVER browser instead of this thing that offers no filters and doesn't display whether or not a server has force only correctly. It's the same exact server browser, and you can't even search for a server! If they implemented this then I would be fine, but if you have all of these darned cvars and no way to find what you want it only hurts.

While I agree that the in-game browser could be a lot better (its not really changed since Quake3; see UT for an example of a great in-game browser), you apparently missed the fact that these things are already in the game.

First off there are already filters by game (not too useful), gametype, show empty, show full, LAN, Favorites, etc.

You can enter a new "favorite" with an IP and keep tabs on that server.

Also icons appear showing if force is disable or if they are using sabers only or JediVMerc or a password (It would be nice if there were options to filter out or display only the servers with these icons though).

For now your best bet is ASE (All Seeing Eye). It offers everything you could want and more...

KaiaSowapit
10-14-2003, 08:41 AM
The only way to solve the problem is to make a GOOD SERVER browser instead of this thing that offers no filters and doesn't display whether or not a server has force only correctly. It's the same exact server browser, and you can't even search for a server! If they implemented this then I would be fine, but if you have all of these darned cvars and no way to find what you want it only hurts.

I'd agree that there's room for improvement on the in-game browser, no question. You are aware, however, that simply by clicking on the "server info" button you can see a detailed list of exactly what CVARs have been tinkered with, as well as numerous other options set on the particular server you are looking at.

As an alternative, I'd also suggest trying out The All Seeing Eye. (http://www.udpsoft.com/eye2/index.html)

GunShark
10-14-2003, 03:05 PM
When i run a duel server for me and some mates to practice i always turn off everything accept saber defend, offence and jump as on public servers starting from JKO i noticed people whored the force powers in duels and it bugged the crap out of me, Your ready to fight on a ledge (E.G JKA Imperial Shaft), you've spawned in ran over to you enemy saber ready to fight and the next thing you know the whore has force pushed you off the ledge without any combat!! this isn't any fun at all.
At least with the force powers disbled accept for the above it gives only one option, learn to fight with a lightsaber, duel sabers, staffsaber or die and is a lot more fun as 9 times out of 10 the only reason you fall off the ledge is through self made mistake, EG trying to roll stab at an enemy and they move, you go right over the edge and into oblivion.
But thats my 2 pennies worth :)

Prime
10-14-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by babywax
You don't have to take us for the exactly what we wrote, please, interpret! Why don't you just write exactly what you mean, then we won't have to interpret :)

Wa'es
10-14-2003, 06:51 PM
For now your best bet is ASE (All Seeing Eye). It offers everything you could want and more...

For ANY game that has fully implemented support, The All Seeing Eye should be your first choice in the search for a server. It has:
IRC integration. NOTE: can be disabled
informs you of official patches and unofficial mods at FileShack.com for ALL supported and installed games. NOTE:can be disabled
allows buddy tracking. NOTE: can be disabled and is limited to a few buddies unless you have a subscription
filters GALORE. NOTE: can be customized and is updated often with player suggested filter categories.
customizable game parameters (i.e. config files, command line switches, etc.)
FREE! NOTE: some features are limited (buddy list and player searches) without a subscription


If you play games online that are supported by this program, I can't think of any reason NOT to have it. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

.:Silver:.
10-14-2003, 11:28 PM
I personally like the option for versatility. My two personal favorite servers are the Chop Shop servers. There, gunners and saberists can play on equal footing. There, the saber is a force to be reckoned with, i.e. one clean hit, one kill. These servers have made me wonder why so many gunners look poorly upon saberists. Perhaps, they never wanted even footing to begin with.

No matter, those who are good will adapt to the rules, those who aren't will move on. But it is this versatility in server settings that has opened new methods of play and fun.

Butt_Whisper
10-15-2003, 06:47 AM
i agree, chice is best

Syzerian
10-15-2003, 08:16 AM
hmm im interested in this how do u select the weapons allowed and force powers as such?
ive been wanting to make a all weapons with no lightsaber game for ages it would be really cool

KaiaSowapit
10-15-2003, 08:48 AM
hmm im interested in this how do u select the weapons allowed and force powers as such?
ive been wanting to make a all weapons with no lightsaber game for ages it would be really cool

__________________
Angel of Truth an Honor
~Syzerian Aralos~

Heh, that's easy... pick up a copy of Unreal Tournament. ;)

Seriously, you need to adjust g_weaponDisable & g_forcePowerDisable. Try these two links courtesy of www.jediservers.com:

g_weaponDisable (http://www.jediservers.com/help_articles_weapons.asp)
g_forcePowerDisable (http://www.jediservers.com/help_articles_force.asp)

I've never tried to disable sabers, so your mileage may vary. :)

Prime
10-15-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Syzerian
hmm im interested in this how do u select the weapons allowed and force powers as such?
ive been wanting to make a all weapons with no lightsaber game for ages it would be really cool I haven't tried it, but you might be able to restrict the lightsaber if you set it so you can't assign any points to saber offense/defense. Has anyone done that before?