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View Full Version : Just the Facts Please: The JKA Patch


razorace
10-14-2003, 05:36 PM
I'm starting this to compile facts, and only facts, on the upcoming patch for JKA. Please do not post anything other than facts that you have personally received from Raven about the patch.

This is NOT a thread to ask for additional bugfixs/gameplay fixes.

This is NOT a thread for posting "Wow!", "Thanks!", or other useless and cluttering posts.

Anyway, I'll start the ball on the facts about the patch.

- Raven is working on getting a patch out for the game.

- Many members of Raven have been pushing for a patch for some time now. Something is slowing down their progress.

- There will be new maps in the patch.

- It is unlikely that there will be any major AI improvements in the patch.

- A bug fix for the single saber backward walking animation will be in the patch.

lonepadawan
10-14-2003, 05:42 PM
- The pickuppablesabers CVAR from the demo will be added

-Some dynamic glow problems will be fixed (Hopefully it will work now)

Emon
10-14-2003, 05:48 PM
Vehicle control improved (SP, MP, both? not sure)
Dynamic glow speed and bug issues fixed
Bug fixes from the demo put into the single player game, such as fixed hub level loading for mappers (make level transitions like Deus Ex or HL expansions)


The first two I heard from Zer0-L0gic, a designer who worked on the Siege maps in JA. Not saying he's wrong, but information directly from the programmers should certantly be considered more carved in stone than from a designer. Just a general disclaimer so people don't beat me if those fixes aren't there. ;)

The last one I got directly from James Monroe via e-mail.

Razorace, do you know what maps are to be included?

razorace
10-14-2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Emon
Razorace, do you know what maps are to be included? Nope, sorry.

Prime
10-14-2003, 06:53 PM
As far as we know, there has been no mention of any gameplay "balancing" alterations, correct?

Emon
10-14-2003, 07:08 PM
Correct, but then again, no one has asked. I assume there are changes in balance.

Pedro The Hutt
10-14-2003, 07:08 PM
Personally I can live with that, back in the JO days I refused to download any of the patches, I found it to be right as it was XD if there's one thing that needs fixing it's the need for Force energy to pull of saber specials like the lunge.

razorace
10-14-2003, 07:12 PM
No word yet. And please don't ask questions in this tread. We are already posting everything we have.

Andy867
10-15-2003, 12:01 AM
Raven has acknowledged the In-game server browser is not showing all the servers, and will be fixing it on the client side via the Patch.

razorace
10-17-2003, 02:55 AM
Thank you for actually reading the first post before posting. :P

Do NOT post unless you have some new information about the patch to add.

razorace
10-30-2003, 02:49 AM
*bump*

No additional news but this thread was off the main page. Plus, someone was looking for information on the patch.

phillys
10-30-2003, 06:51 AM
i think someone should make a little noise and tell raven to consider about balancing the dual sabers' kata....the one where the two sabers spins really fast when spinning the mouse around. it's lame but it racks up kills in duels faster than you can say bananas.

JA_General
10-30-2003, 08:00 AM
razorace is there any idea of the release date ?

razorace
10-30-2003, 09:40 AM
If I haven't posted it, I simply don't know. My best guess is after the X-Box release next month. :(

Akshara
10-30-2003, 05:32 PM
Sorry to bring this up guys, but...

Could someone post a link to an offical statement made around here by either a Raven or Lucasarts representative that confirms a patch is being made in the first place? And that the above statements are actually facts?

There's several people over on the Ravenforums making a lot of noise that there has never been any "official" statement, and that all of this is community conjecture and heresay. While I disagree with them and think that a patch being under construction would be obvious, it is extremely difficult to track down any hard proof of it's existence. Thanks.

Prime
10-30-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Akshara
There's several people over on the Ravenforums making a lotta of noise that there has never been any "official" statement, and that all of this is community conjecture and heresay. They are correct. The fact is that there may be no patch at all. We'll have to wait and see.

Andy867
10-30-2003, 07:20 PM
Well, Kenn Hoekstra said in a brief reply to a member's email that there would be a patch, but its up to Activision and LucasArts on when it will be released. The reason for the patch is for obvious bugs/problems like the in-game browser being one, and other problems that need to be addressed by Raven and LucasArts.

razorace
10-30-2003, 07:31 PM
I believe all our information is from individual email communications to/from Raven. Many staffers at Raven want to do a patch but there's a lot of internal politics involved.

We just haven't gotten anything "official".

MasterSidious
10-30-2003, 08:10 PM
The patche's number will be 1.1.

Don't say big deal please, lol. It's the only thing I could find.

Prime
10-30-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
Well, Kenn Hoekstra said in a brief reply to a member's email that there would be a patch, but its up to Activision and LucasArts on when it will be released. I realize that Raven developers are keen on a patch, and may haved worked on one. But until Lucasarts gives the go-ahead, there won't be one. That was the only point I was trying to make. :)

Kurgan
10-31-2003, 12:51 AM
i think someone should make a little noise and tell raven to consider about balancing the dual sabers' kata....the one where the two sabers spins really fast when spinning the mouse around. it's lame but it racks up kills in duels faster than you can say bananas.

This and other gameplay changes are really unnecessary (and will piss off more people than it "helps"). Cruise the strategy forums and you'll see dozens of counters posted for this.

The fact is when I play certain people using the Saber Barrier is a death sentence for me, that's how easy it is to counter! ; )

Anyway, back to the facts about the patch...

phillys
10-31-2003, 02:16 AM
darn...then i must've sucked :(

Syzerian
10-31-2003, 07:00 AM
yup dual sabers has millions of counters like rollstab wait for wind down and kata lunge dfa hundreds of em
and im glad they r fixing the single walk backwards animation
so anyone willing to share their source of info?

Akshara
10-31-2003, 04:26 PM
Ok everybody, here's what I found on Ravenforums...

The following are a few Kenn Hoekstra quotes for all you keeping score. The first one is from an email sent in mid-September in reply to a request from Ravenfourms' very own Kathybates...

"Well…I hate to tell you this, but you were right. It’s a definite bug in the game. We’ve fixed the code on our end for a patch, but until the patch is available, there’s no way to work around it on the client end other than continually refreshing your server or by hosting your server through GameSpy Arcade".

This next one is in response to requests concerning the previous one, posted on Oct. 3rd by Ravenfourms' very own... well, Kathybates...

I realize that you think that I'm ignoring you, but that's not the case. There is a lot going on here this week and I've just gotten a bit behind on my e-mail.

If I could go into more detail about what we're doing over here right now, I certainly would. I thank you again for bringing the issue to our attention.

Once I know something more concrete, I will certainly let you (and everyone else) know.

--Kenn
And that's about it folks. So there's three things that can be taken from what was said... 1) Raven has fixed the code for the server bug, and is waiting for the go ahead to put it in a patch; 2) If they could go into more detail about the situation they would; and 3) As soon as they can tell us something, we'll be the first one's to know about it.

Anything else at this time is pure speculation and conjecture on the part of the JA community, including but not limited to the reasons why Raven can't discuss it, and why it hasn't been released yet. The only other official corroborating statements that we have to date are the ones we agreed to in the JA EULA, stating that LucasArts is the sole owner of JA and any other releases related to it.

-----

ps. I know these are old news (Rad, baby...), and that the source is, shall we say, just a little less than credible. But it's absolutely all we have right now, unless someone else comes forward with a communication.

Akshara
11-05-2003, 02:48 PM
Update

Ok everybody... the latest news over at Ravenforums comes from an email Kathybates received yesterday...

Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 4:04 PM

Subject: RE: Frustration

Tony,

I understand your frustrations and what led you to move on to another game. Contrary to your beliefs, we are hard at work on a patch that will fix many of the problems you have mentioned, and hope to have this available sometime around the New Year.

Regards,
Now he doesn't list who this is from, but stated that it was a Raven official. Since KB has moved on to hosting another game, and from the levelheadedness of his recent posts, I personally have no reason to doubt the information.

So according to this, the patch is currently under development, but we shouldn't expect it until around the year's end.

ps. don't shoot the messenger.

Prime
11-05-2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Akshara
Update

Ok everybody... the latest news over at Ravenforums comes from an email Kathybates received yesterday...


Now he doesn't list who this is from, but stated that it was a Raven official. Since KB has moved on to hosting another game, and from the levelheadedness of his recent posts, I personally have no reason to doubt the information. Very interesting. I can understand why he/she would give a name, since they are probably legally obligated not to discuss such things.

Originally posted by Akshara
So according to this, the patch is currently under development, but we shouldn't expect it until around the year's end. Year's end? It may be too late by then to undo the damage done by the browser issue. But then again, many people may come back to at least give JA a try again.

As for it taking four months for a patch, there may be several possible reasons:

1. They a very weary about quick patches after JO, and want things to settle a bit more before they decide on certain changes.

2. Lucasarts has decreed that a patch is not to be released before then.

3. Some bug fixes are technically difficult enough to that it will take that long to iron them all out.

4. There is so many changes(gameplay or otherwise) that it will take that long to code and test them.

5. This information is wrong and we are right back to not knowing about a patch :)

Originally posted by Akshara
ps. don't shoot the messenger. Your days are numbered. Grrrr. :mad: :D

Akshara
11-05-2003, 04:27 PM
Want to talk about interesting...

So the admin over at Ravenforums deleted the thread with this information, along with several others. But believe me, it was really there at one point for several hours. I also had several of my own posts deleted.

Not really liking the vibe over at ravenforums these days...

willeekinz
11-05-2003, 04:48 PM
Hi, this is kathy bates...Im the one who's posted the Raven emails regarding the patch...they all are legit, and you will be seeing the patch early next year...Im not sure about SDK, but I have replied to them inquiring about it, lets hope it doesnt take two months to get a response!!

In a related note, i just want to speak my opinion on how the official Raven forums are devoid of any true public spoken opinions...All our threads this morning were deleted or edited, all began very tactfully discussing the response from Raven re: the patch, all were locked immediately...finally they just banned me for proving them and WadeV wrong the whole time...very very sad, especially being the official Raven site...if you have any negative opinions, or even just a general question about the patch, do not bother going to raven's sites...they will delete, lock, and ban you with no reason necessary...

Unfortunate about how much longer the patch will take, but at least now we know...

Akshara
11-05-2003, 05:02 PM
Hey KB...

So they're now saying over at Ravenforums that the email you received about the New Year release was fake. I told them that coming there to post a fake email seemed like extreme action even for you, and that the tone surrounding the post seemed genuine. Do you have any comment on this?

Prime
11-05-2003, 05:23 PM
I don't visit those forums, so I don't know about what the deleted posts contain, but I can understand removal about patch information from developers, since they are most likely legally obligated not to discuss it...

Akshara
11-05-2003, 05:25 PM
I can understand that as well... but that wasn't how the situation was presented - it was more of a personal thing against KB. Also, they have now publicly stated that the email posted was a fake... those are pretty strong words.

I'd just like to get to the truth of the situation, and I'm just a little miffed that I've had several posts deleted or edited by the moderators over there which didn't contain any sensitve or inflammatory material at all.

willeekinz
11-05-2003, 05:48 PM
haha!!

The email from Raven is legit...it's from someone other than Kenn Hoekstra this time, someone who I had never had correspondance with before and found his name and title in a manufacturing program we pay good $$ for at work that allows you to search companies for specific contacts, when I replied regarding the SDK release, I also asked if it is a prob posting their name and title, havn't gotten a reply yet...heh figures.

Let them think it's a fake over at their "forums", let them keep deleting any threads regarding bugs, fixes, etc...I'm done over there, in fact I was done over there since about a week ago, but once I got the mail yesterday I thought it would be a good place to post, to both inform the players looking for info as well as to prove Wade he was wrong all along, that he kept trying to pass his speculation off as fact, and I wasn't buying it...

Hopefully most of the gamers over there also frequent this site and will get word of the patch release date information.

I can't think of ANY other reason they would delete all those posts except for the simple blatant fact that they were burned in many of their theories: Raven not being able to disclose info, that the patch was already complete, etc...

There IS the possibility that there is a silence clause in Raven/LEC's contract, and maybe my new source wasn't aware of what they could/couldnt say. In that case, I could see a response by Raven or MAYBE a deletion, if it was deleted by a Raven official. But for the mod to say it was a fake is wrong, no matter what the reason...they are just doing everything in their power to save face. Which is ridiculous, because it isnt about proving who is right or wrong, but just to get the info out there so server owners can justify how long to keep a server rented/going, as well as to players who are having problems.

Prime
11-05-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Akshara
I'd just like to get to the truth of the situation, and I'm just a little miffed that I've had several posts deleted or edited by the moderators over there which didn't contain any sensitve or inflammatory material at all. Understandable. I can see them deleting "illegal" information, but not comments on non-inflammatory posts...

Akshara
11-05-2003, 07:14 PM
Ok, to be fair here... the following is the reply from Rickmus, an official Raven employee, regarding the situation at Ravenforums...

I deleted the thread as it contained rumors and speculations, as well as it didn't offer anything that hasn't been said before.

That post claiming it was an email from someone from Raven was a fake. I verified it with those in the know, and the info in that email is not accurate.

--------------
Senior Programmer,
Quake 4 Lead Programmer,
Raven Software

kmd
11-05-2003, 07:26 PM
so basicly, the bottum line of this thread is....we know jack squawt about a patch, when it will be released, what the changes are, and even at one point we did, that could have been changed!

eniaC
11-05-2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Akshara
Ok, to be fair here... the following is the reply from Rickmus, an official Raven employee, regarding the situation at Ravenforums...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I deleted the thread as it contained rumors and speculations, as well as it didn't offer anything that hasn't been said before.

That post claiming it was an email from someone from Raven was a fake. I verified it with those in the know, and the info in that email is not accurate.

--------------
Senior Programmer,
Quake 4 Lead Programmer,
Raven Software
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like maybe the people "in the know" are stupid idiots that made a mistake and now there trying to cover there arse...or maybe not...either way...if thats how they run there business...so be it...thats there mistake not any of ours. You should post that full e-mail including name if there going to play childish games...then again I could be way off.

CUSTOMER SASTISFACTION ALWAYS COMES FIRST
...no I'm just naive...right?


eniaC

*edited* sorry, I know this is off-topic of the actually thread, as that I had no facts to contribute.

shukrallah
11-05-2003, 07:56 PM
uummmm... if its coming out in the new year (if thats true) then it probably because Xbox has it so you can play JA online, and they dont want the bug on XBOX because its impossible to patch it up...

razorace
11-05-2003, 07:59 PM
Go for it. As long as you don't go into the actual gameplay issues and such (WE KNOW ALREADY! DAMN IT!), I'm ok with it.

UniKorn
11-05-2003, 11:02 PM
Those posts were locked for the following reason:

- bashing on Raven just for the fun of it. Inform yourself first, find out who is responsible for the release of the patch, and then show your concern, instead of just bashing for the fun of it.

- 2-3 posts a day about the patch. I know that on these forums the same thing gets posted over and over, stuff like that does not happen on the Raven Forums. I allowed one thread to give bug info. I edited all posts that contained bug information that is more of a preference than a bug, and yes Akshara I disagree on 1! item that you told me that was not a bug. All the other remarks you made were considered legitimate remarks on your part and were removed from the bug list. I don't think you have any reason to complain.

- I did not know the mail was a fake. Therefor I contacted Raven and they handled it. Since the mail was a fake Kathy Bates was banned from the forums, since his/her contribution to the Raven Boards could be summarized as bashing and spreading false rumors about the release of a patch.

- I only moderate on forums of people I respect. I've been on the Raven Boards for a few years now, and in all those years they have never let us down. But appearantly a lot of you forget that a publisher makes the decisions, and not the developer. If you would only take a look at this thread : http://www.map-center.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=25 then you would see that at Raven they do care about the community. If they don't give you information then there is a reason for that. So stop the bashing, it has no use and all it does is force me to click the close thread button.

razorace
11-05-2003, 11:34 PM
The developers do make a decision to sign these sort of all encompassing contracts in the first place. If they sign away all their rights and then can't fulfil their ethical obligation to at least have a functional game or meet their statements to their customers, they are also at fault.

rickmus
11-05-2003, 11:56 PM
The email or the contents of the email is not accurate, as I have confirmed that with internal people. Either show us who you received that email from, otherwise, quit spreading rumors. If you don't feel comfortable in revealing that person's name on the forums, then forward me the entire, entact email (with SMTP headers), so that I can follow up.

In any event, the information is not accurate.

rjohnson@ravensoft.com

razorace
11-06-2003, 12:12 AM
Well, I sure hope it isn't. A patch around New Years would totally miss the holiday buying season.

Plus, wouldn't revealing the source (if it exists) get that individual in a lot of trouble?

Wudan
11-06-2003, 01:57 AM
Yes, but it's a put-up-or-shut-up situation - it's inflamatory, derogatory, and stupid to bash on a developer.

Raven's project workloads have quadrupled since I started following them (er... following info about them, not ... stalking ... or anything ...) - they ARE doing something right.

I really doubt that it'd be til new years anyway.

Also, 'I paid money to get software to get us a contact for Raven' - why not just go to the goddamn website, like everybody else who contacts Raven. Kenn has always been good about letting his people talk to the community - it's pretty much a policy, as I see it. And they've been good about it.

And if you don't know how to get SMTP headers, just post here. I'll learn you a few things about it, n00b :P

Kurgan
11-06-2003, 02:47 AM
IIRC, the first patch for JK2 took 3 months from the official release of the game. Not saying the exact same thing will happen for JA, but that would put it about December.


That's just if it ends up the same, obviously the situation is different so who knows. So we all agree we DON'T know when the patch will come out (or even if it will), all because LA/Activision is holding the reins, much as Raven might want to release it.

Then there's the Xbox release as others have mentioned. I would think the patch would come out in time for the Xbox release (since it can't realistically be patched) with the same fixes as that version will have.

razorace
11-06-2003, 03:17 AM
Yeah but JKO didn't have the three major show-stopping issues that JKA has (the ingame browser; major slowdowns with dynamic glow; and force feedback causing slowdown and being on by default).

Andy867
11-06-2003, 06:14 AM
Ok, so what should LucasArts do, re-release the box cover with instructions saying

"THIS GAME MAY BE SLOWED DOWN BY SETTINGS THAT CAN BE TURNED OFF" ???

I mean, how hard is it to turn off/on settings.. people do it all the time, obviously though, some people's computers just aren't meant to run some games. And for those that can, obviously some tweaking can easily be done, or that person shouldn't deserve that computer if turning off Force feedback or other features are such strenuous tasks.

FK | unnamed
11-06-2003, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Andy867
Ok, so what should LucasArts do, re-release the box cover with instructions saying

"THIS GAME MAY BE SLOWED DOWN BY SETTINGS THAT CAN BE TURNED OFF" ???

I mean, how hard is it to turn off/on settings..

When it comes to the jk2 community, if it's not a /thedestroyer or /helpusob1 command, they are pretty much clueless as a whole.

I point to the g_saberDamagescale command that was present in JK2 yet weak sabers were the biggest complaint...

sorry if this sounds harsh, but prior to jk2 I was active in the quake 3 scene, and post jk2 I'm mainly playing rtcw: et, given that all three of these games use the same engine, it's quite obvious from what I have observed over the last 3 years (for all 3 games), that the jk2 players don't seem to have the desire to learn and/or simple basic knowledge of game's console.

razorace
11-06-2003, 06:23 AM
As a paying customer, you shouldn't have to expect to have to turn off settings on an above minimum spec machine to make up for the sloppy work of the developers. Both the force feedback and dynamic glow settings cause 20 fps drops each and my system is well above the minimum system requirements.

Kurgan
11-06-2003, 07:20 AM
Yeah but JKO didn't have the three major show-stopping issues that JKA has (the ingame browser; major slowdowns with dynamic glow; and force feedback causing slowdown and being on by default).

Conceded. It (JK2) had several major gameplay exploits, but nothing as frustrating as the server browser incomplete listing bug.

Wudan
11-06-2003, 01:20 PM
JO had 2 patches and an SDK within 2 months. We're nearing the 2 month mark right now, just 10 days away.

Realistically, I have friends who have top end machines, and have the dynamic glow turned ON and it works fine. Are you certain you aren't just casualties in the video card war? Another thing, don't bitch about the spiffyness of the engine - it's top notch over most Q3 engine based implementations, excepting perhaps Wolfenstein: ET (which is a really damn good game).

As a coder, I'm primarily concerned with the code - it may be possible that we'll not get any. The game industry is tanking right now, and the possibility that a developer may make new content that in effect neutralizes the developer's earning power is probably worrying more than a few publishers.

At this point, the only 'for sure' mod SDK is for HL2 - and the combination of Valve getting burned PLUS the fact that Vivendi Universal's games division has been on and off the market for the last YEAR or TWO, combine to cast doubt on whether or not Valve will want to pursue encouraging custom content.

So, the backlash of the gamer n00b turned modder m0r0n ensues - just look what we did with JK2's SDK - NOTHING OF NOTE.

Akshara
11-06-2003, 03:40 PM
I edited all posts that contained bug information that is more of a preference than a bug, and yes Akshara and I disagree on 1! item that you told me that was not a bug. All the other remarks you made were considered legitimate remarks on your part and were removed from the bug list. I don't think you have any reason to complain.
As a moderator/admin of several forum communities myself, I simply do not agree with the approach of editing or deleting member posts when they do not contain questionable content. Of course one has to trim out trolls and obviously inappropriate content (like warez, porn, slander, etc), but if it doesn't fall into those two categories then it treads on the grounds of censorship. Especially when said edits do not fall under the posted forum rules, as was the case with my post in the thread in question. So that's why I complained about being a little put off by the whole thing.

But Ravenforums has other other unusual forum practices as well which are not clearly posted in the rules, like not allowing one to post in a thread that's over a week old for example. Kinda contradicts the whole "I know that on these forums the same thing gets posted over and over, stuff like that does not happen on the Raven Forums" comment. Whatever... you guys do what you need to do, and we can choose to participate or not.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

rickmus
11-06-2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Akshara
But Ravenforums has several unusual forum practices, like not allowing one to post in a thread that's over a week old. Kinda contradicts the whole "I know that on these forums the same thing gets posted over and over, stuff like that does not happen on the Raven Forums" comment. Whatever... you guys do what you need to do, and we can choose to participate or not.


That's not a rule I'm aware of. Maybe it is some people's perception, but it is nothing I've ever told the mods to do there.

Akshara
11-06-2003, 03:49 PM
Rickmus...

Well Wolf359 specifically stated it was a rule, and the mods are following the practice of locking any thread that someone posts in which is over a week old. This isn't conjecture or perception, it's fact.

It makes it very difficult for a person to not have to start a new thread, which they in turn get chastised for by everyone on the board. I've seen it happen several times. There's even a thread in the General Discussion forum as a poll to whether this practice should continue or not.

Bottom line.. the mods on your board are taking things just a little too far, imho... and are exacerbating much of the upset feelings that Raven is trying to calm in the first place. Definitely had that effect with me.

Prime
11-06-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
IIRC, the first patch for JK2 took 3 months from the official release of the game. Just for the record, from the sites I looked at JO wa released on March 27, 2002, patch 1.03 on May 6, 2002, and patch 1.04 on July 11, 2002.

eniaC
11-06-2003, 04:05 PM
Agreed Akshara,
I've been trying to follow ravenforums since Lord Sokar wrote his honest letter about an actual "bug" to Raven and LAE(they prob. banned him to, huh?).
For those of you not following this on ravenforums, Akshara has been supporting them from the beginning while 50 mil. people complain about stupid crap (ie: staff is way to overpowered, people wont stop spamming, you know stupid stuff).
Akshara nicely posted a letter saying goodbye to that dictatorship(*/edit* I know it's not just 1 person and the actual Raven folks do really care), they still gave him/her cr*p.

So in the end, even if your polite w/ educated posts and responses you get nothing but disrespect from people you are trying to support and give honest feedback to, you get slapped in the face.

To all those Raven people dont even come in posting about freedom of speech and all the jazz, totaly irrelevent.

Kudos Akshara, atleast you tried.

*edited* rushed this post had to run kid off to school this morning, fixed grammer mistakes.
For those who forgot I've supported Raven since the start against the whiners, I love the game and so does my kid : )
I even believe in one of my threads somewhere I suggested people quit Raven bashing, oh well. It's just a game, (Spoken by a starving artist that preordered the game and spent 50 dolars on it). Thats my fault though Ive been a Star Wars fan since I was very young and spent lots of money on LAE games (almost as much as Ive spent on my Square games over the years).

Well anyhoo these are just opinions that don't mean s*** to anybody but me.
Cheers
*end edit*


eniaC

Akshara
11-06-2003, 04:06 PM
Rickmus..

Here's a link to the thread on your forums where it's stated as a rule...

Ravenfourms thread "Hmmm..." (http://forums.ravensoft.com/ib/ikonboard.pl?;act=ST;f=21;t=25926)

And here's a link to the poll...

Ravenfourms thread "Should bumping of threads rule be modified..." (http://forums.ravensoft.com/ib/ikonboard.pl?;act=ST;f=7;t=25929)

You'll notice in this thread that the mods don't agree, and that Unikorn blows it off as it must've been an old thread. But it was an ongoing and important discussion. This has been the case of several threads in the JA forum. Things get locked, closed, edited, and deleted simply way too often... and that makes people understandably upset.

-----

My apologies, Razorace, for continuing this off-topic discussion, but it needed to be addressed. If the dev staff communicates with each other as well as they do with their Mod staff, then this whole email leak doesn't seem that too far fetched. Hopefully KB will come back (said he was done though), and will forward the email.

rickmus
11-06-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Akshara
Well Wolf359 specifically stated it was a rule, and the mods are following the practice of locking any thread that someone posts in which is over a week old. This isn't conjecture or perception, it's fact.


I will express to the mods that this should not be the case (though a rare exception when a topic goes off topic). Forums have to be kept under control. This can sometimes seem to be strict from the outside, but most of the time, a necessity.

Most topics that were nuked in the JA were nuked by myself. Pointless bashing and speculation offer nothing positive to the forum, so I felt it was time to clean up. This is not to say that you can't post criticisms or specifics about what you like/dislike/needs to be address, etc. I, for one, always enjoy reading constructive criticism, as it helps you understand your audience and improve upon yourself for the next game you make.

And since I'm airing, developers are usually the ones who are most energetic about releasing a patch. We are the ones who are most closely tied to the players, and we also receive the most direct feedback / criticism / hatred when stuff needs to be fix. But we also usually have our hands tied by outside influences that allows us to quickly release patches or other things. So saying that 'raven doesn't care' is misdirected, as we are usually not in a position to do something immediate.

Andy867
11-06-2003, 04:18 PM
Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast LucasArts 03/26/02 (from GameFaqs.com)


Jedi Knight 2 Patch 1.03 05-06-2002 (from JK2Files.com)


Jedi Knight II 1.04 Patch
Author: LucasArts/Raven
7/11/02 (from JKII.net)


And you guys think that Raven released patches right away for their games... You guys rely WAY to heavily on game developers to release Patches immediately and no time to enjoy the rest of the game, in which some BUGS can be avoided or fixed by the user, or is point and click too difficult a task to do?

Akshara
11-06-2003, 04:42 PM
Forums have to be kept under control. This can sometimes seem to be strict from the outside, but most of the time, a necessity... <snip> Most topics that were nuked in the JA were nuked by myself.
I understand that... and your reasons for nuking the forum. But you should understand that the behaviour I'm discussing did not start when you posted your sticky thread, and has been going on for a little while.

I totally understand that the mods are overwhelmed and frustrated with the continued and repeated complaints about the patch and the server issue... but they've just got to relax a little bit, and stop insulting the community members so much. Many times their responses and actions increase the community's tension, rather than diffuse it.

developers are usually the ones who are most energetic about releasing a patch. We are the ones who are most closely tied to the players, and we also receive the most direct feedback / criticism / hatred when stuff needs to be fix. But we also usually have our hands tied by outside influences that allows us to quickly release patches or other things. So saying that 'raven doesn't care' is misdirected, as we are usually not in a position to do something immediate.
This is what I've been trying to say over on your forums all along. I personally think that Raven has done a phenomenal job with JA overall, and trust that if you could get the server fix out yesterday you would. Nobody loves this game more than you all do.

My only beef has to do with the treatment that the community gets on your forums. Even having the opinon which I stated above, your forum mods and "regulars or pseudo-mods" have hacked me off to the point of losing my patience with the whole thing. It's reflecting badly on Raven.

Part of why I brought the discussion over here to Lucasforums was because of my irritation at the whole thing... which had been building over several weeks. I probably would have just left it alone if I didn't feel that there was an abuse of power happening at Ravenforums, and that the mods had finally lost control. Though it's good to hear it was actually you who did the last nuke-fest on the forums, it's obvious that the situation had been building to a head before you entered the picture.

I just wish that Ravenforums was a fun place to visit, like it used to be back in the EF:Voy heyday. This is just my two cents, Rickmus.. take it or leave it.

Prime
11-06-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
or is point and click too difficult a task to do? From what I have seen in other threads, yes :D

babywax
11-06-2003, 05:26 PM
Quick question: Where is the JK section on raven forums? I found the forums on google, but I don't see anything for JK :mad:

Akshara
11-06-2003, 05:38 PM
Yeah... that one made a lot of sense. It simply wasn't enough that one couldn't post as anonymous, but now a new kid looking for the Raven Jedi Knight forums won't even know they exist.

:roleyess:

Truth is that there's one guy who made such a loud noise that he not only got banned from participating, but managed to get the entire JK forum blocked from anonymous viewing entirely. Now one has to signup and login before the forums will display in the list.

Something of a "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" situation...

FK | unnamed
11-06-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Andy867



And you guys think that Raven released patches right away for their games... You guys rely WAY to heavily on game developers to release Patches immediately and no time to enjoy the rest of the game, in which some BUGS can be avoided or fixed by the user, or is point and click too difficult a task to do?


All game play talk aside, in case you didn't notice, the in-game browser issue has drastically reduced the number of people playing this game.

Can it be fixed by a third party application?
Sure.
Should that be the only recourse?

Not at all.


Look at your own forms, not nearly as active as they were post JK2 launch are they?

Not nearly as many players on the servers as there were around post JK2 launch are there?


That in-game browser bug has done more damage to this game than any number of bad reviews could ever hope to.

And if you don't think they (LEC) should get off their ass and sign a release for a fix that has probably already been made, then I really feel sorry for you.

It's that exact attitude, the "oh well we just have to accept what we get no matter how low quality or flawed" that contributes to the lowering of standards in commercial product production.

Or in simple terms, they keep feeding people crap because all they do is sit there and eat it with a wide grin on their face.


Raven made a legitimate mistake with the browser bug, they have acknowledged that it is causing a serious problem in player traffic (the lack of it) and are willing to fix it.

Why anyone would choose to sit here like you have and lament users and try to shift the blame on their shoulders by saying "all you people have to do is X, it's your fault" is just plain sad.

If you have been using the internet for more than 6 months, you *should have noticed the one universal rule of the online world:

People are lazy.


How many times have you been asked to "link me" when all the person had to do is go to www.google.com and type two words in?


People will buy the game, use the in game browser, see about 16 servers, give up after a short while and move on to another game.

That is what has happened and will continue to happen.

Now if you want to try and help people by telling them about cvars and third party browsers, great.

But sitting here chastising them because they have not taken steps to fix a broken product they paid for is just making you look like a jerk.