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radrick01
10-16-2003, 05:31 PM
how can the so called game designers at LucasArts be so @&$#^%%$#@ as to not give the customer (THE ONES WITH THE MONEY!) the option to use 1st person View with the light saber. Jedi knight 2, and Outcast both used the 1st person View with the light saber. Why would they screw up a good thing?????
I am so disapionted that I am returning the game for my money back. I don't think I'll ever buy a LucasArts game again!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
RadRick01

razorace
10-16-2003, 05:55 PM
Uh, the function is still in the game, someone just needs to create the transparent skin to go along with it.

I beleive Raven took it out because using the dual/double sabers in first person would be too complicated.

J.P.B.
10-16-2003, 06:42 PM
Ho there, man i'm playing the game with first person lightsaber view.
It takes some editing but its possible.

First thing you need to do is to edit the .skin files of the character you are using. You can see which model parts you are using by tuping ''playermodel'' in the console

That will tell for example that you are using:

jedi_hm head_c1 lower_c1 torso_e1

Well, ones you now what models your usingo you must edit the correspondig .skin files in the models/players directory.

You must set some of the surfaces to ''clear''. Note that if you set the to ''off'', that will turn those surfaces off for hit detection as well, so you'd be cheating.
So, you turn the surfaces you want to ''clear'' and then you must set the third person view position to match the first person view position.

MasterSidious
10-16-2003, 06:48 PM
Take a DEEP breath, or maybe ten ;)

J.P.B.
10-16-2003, 06:49 PM
this are the parameters I use for matching the third person view with the first person position:

set cg_thirdpersonvertoffset -5
set cg_thirdpersonrange -0.5
set cg_thirdpersoncameradamp 1
set cg_thirdpersontargetdamp 1

You can put them in your autoexec.cfg if you want. Anyway, it seems that the game ignores those commands in the autoexec at first. Therefore what you have to do is to write in the console while you are in the game ''exec auotexec''. And there you have it, third person's first person view

J.P.B.
10-16-2003, 06:55 PM
This is how I configured my .skin files:

Head_c1:

head_cap_torso_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
heada,*off
heada_face,*off
heada_teeth,*off
headc,*off
headc_face,*off
headc_teeth,*off
headb,clear
headb_face,clear
headb_teeth,clear
headb_bang,clear
r_handd,models/players/jedi_hm/robes02_hands.tga
l_handd,models/players/jedi_hm/robes02_hands.tga
l_handa,*off
l_handa_cap_l_arm_off,*off
r_handa,*off
r_handa_cap_r_arm_off,*off
r_handb,*off
r_handb_cap_r_arm_off,*off
l_handb,*off
l_handb_cap_l_arm_off,*off
r_handc,*off
r_handc_cap_r_arm_off,*off
l_handc,*off
l_handc_cap_l_arm_off,*off
r_handd_cap_r_arm_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
l_handd_cap_l_arm_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
r_hande,*off
r_hande_cap_r_arm_off,*off
l_hande,*off
l_hande_cap_l_arm_off,*off
r_handf,*off
r_handf_cap_r_arm_off,*off
l_handf,*off
l_handf_cap_l_arm_off,*off



Lower_c1:


hips_cap_torso_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
hipsa,*off
l_lega,*off
l_lega_cap_hips_off,*off
r_lega,*off
r_lega_cap_hips_off,*off
hipsa_cap_l_leg_off,*off
hipsa_cap_r_leg_off,*off
hipsb,*off
r_legb,*off
r_legb_cap_hips_off,*off
l_legb,*off
l_legb_cap_hips_off,*off
hipsb_cap_l_leg_off,*off
hipsb_cap_r_leg_off,*off
hipsd,*off
l_legd,*off
l_legd_cap_hips_off,*off
r_legd,*off
r_legd_cap_hips_off,*off
hipsd_cap_l_leg_off,*off
hipsd_cap_r_leg_off,*off
hipsc,clear
l_legc,clear
l_legc_cap_hips_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
r_legc,clear
r_legc_cap_hips_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
hipsc_cap_l_leg_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
hipsc_cap_r_leg_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
hipse,*off
hipse_cap_l_leg_off,*off
hipse_cap_r_leg_off,*off
l_lege,*off
l_lege_cap_hips_off,*off
r_lege,*off
r_lege_cap_hips_off,*off



Torso_e1:


torso_cap_hips_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
torso_cap_head_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
torsoa,*off
l_arma,*off
l_arma_cap_l_hand_off,*off
l_arma_cap_torso_off,*off
r_arma,*off
r_arma_cap_r_hand_off,*off
r_arma_cap_torso_off,*off
torsoa_cap_l_arm_off,*off
torsoa_cap_r_arm_off,*off
torsob,clear
l_armb,clear
l_armb_skin,models/players/jedi_hm/vest02_arms.tga
l_armb_cap_l_hand_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
l_armb_cap_torso_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga

r_armb,clear
r_armb_skin,models/players/jedi_hm/vest02_arms.tga
r_armb_cap_r_hand_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
r_armb_cap_torso_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga

torsob_cap_l_arm_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
torsob_cap_r_arm_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
torsoc,*off
r_armc,*off
r_armc_skin,*off
r_armc_cap_r_hand_off,*off
r_armc_cap_torso_off,*off
l_armc,*off
l_armc_skin,*off
l_armc_cap_l_hand_off,*off
l_armc_cap_torso_off,*off
torsoc_cap_l_arm_off,*off
torsoc_cap_r_arm_off,*off
torsod,*off
r_armd,*off
r_armd_cap_r_hand_off,*off
r_armd_cap_torso_off,*off
torsod_lower,*off
l_armd,*off
l_armd_cap_l_hand_off,*off
l_armd_cap_torso_off,*off
torsod_cap_l_arm_off,*off
torsod_cap_r_arm_off,*off
torsoe,*off
r_arme,*off
r_arme_cap_r_hand_off,*off
r_arme_cap_torso_off,*off
l_arme,*off
l_arme_cap_l_hand_off,*off
l_arme_cap_torso_off,*off
torsoe_cap_l_arm_off,*off
torsoe_cap_r_arm_off,*off
torsoe_lower,*off
torsof,*off
r_armf,*off
r_armf_cap_r_hand_off,*off
r_armf_cap_torso_off,*off
l_armf,*off
l_armf_cap_l_hand_off,*off
l_armf_cap_torso_off,*off
torsof_cap_l_arm_off,*off
torsof_cap_r_arm_off,*off
torsog,*off
torsog_collar,*off
torsog_cap_r_arm_off,*off
torsog_cap_l_arm_off,*off
l_armg,*off
l_armg_cap_l_hand_off,*off
l_armg_cap_torso_off,*off
l_armg_cuff,*off
r_armg,*off
r_armg_cap_r_hand_off,*off
r_armg_cap_torso_off,*off
r_armg_cuff,*off
r_handg,*off
r_handg_cap_r_arm_off,*off
l_handg,*off
l_handg_cap_l_arm_off,*off


And that's it, you can now play the game with saber's first person view plus the possibility of doing acrobatics.

StormHammer
10-16-2003, 08:47 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post all that J.P.B. ;) :thumbsup:

I could feel the hate swelling in him... :emperor:

Tesla
10-16-2003, 08:51 PM
Couldn't Raven just put it back in, in a patch ?
Cant be that hard.....can it ? :confused:

Anyway, if Raven don't do it then im sure some one could make a mod of it. ?

Tyler_Durden
10-16-2003, 10:35 PM
Question TPB........ when you use force speed, does the camera view change at all? If this works then you have totally saved this somewhat mediocre game for me, man. One more thing, does the skin show up regularly when the game switches to cutscenes? It would look pretty weird if your character isn't on screen during those

J.P.B.
10-17-2003, 02:44 AM
Well, those are the few things that are screwed when you use my method, cause the force speed turns the camera backwards, and in the cutscenes you can only see a pair of hands moving in the air, jeje.

Anyway its worth it for me. But it would also be great if the raven guys released a patch making first person saber available.

Crow_Nest
10-17-2003, 03:44 AM
Who would wanna play with 1st person?

it sux, besides. When you use staff in 1st person, your saber would be blocking your view. (I guess)

Kurgan
10-17-2003, 05:53 AM
Cool! I will try your method.

Making a cfg file bound to a key that would switch it back to "normal" for the cutscenes would probably be a good work around.

However Raven really should still patch this in, because that method won't work in Multiplayer (if it did, it could so easily be abused to cheat).

razorace
10-17-2003, 06:59 AM
Actually, that method should work in MP (but not on pure servers). Since the actual model rendering is handled client side, altering the skin files will only affect things on your system.

However, this will result in all the other players using your skin to have missing heads, bodies, etc. just like your character.

I think I mentioned this before but the reason why Raven took out the FPS view was because they would have had to impliment a True View like system (like what I did for MotF) or create special FPS view models for all the different combinations of custom jedi skins.

Kurgan
10-17-2003, 11:36 AM
I don't see why they would need to.

In JK2 they had 40+ MP skins and yet in the 1.04 patch you had the option to use CG_FPLS 1/G_FPLS 1 to use an "arm's only" Kyle skin with the lightsaber for first person lightsaber action.

And since the "headless" and "arms only" skins had been flagged as unusuable through the console (they were exploits) it worked fine.. only you saw the arms only skin, everybody else saw whatever skin you were using.

And since it was ONLY a skin for the FPLS command, you could perform all the acrobatic moves that were associated with the saber, and the camera wouldn't spin around abnormally to make you sick.

It was MUCH better than the first person lightsaber/fists view that was used in JK2 SP (that one didn't allow you to do acrobatics).

A similar solution could be implemented for JA. They wouldn't have to make 2,000+ customized Jaden skins, unless they really wanted to. Functionally there's no reason to.

Besides, how many combinations are you going to have for two floating forearms anyway?


Just do it the way it was done in JK2 1.04 MP and it should be perfect... even for the custom Jedi. If other skins can use kyle's forearms, so can they.

Nemios
10-17-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by razorace
Actually, that method should work in MP (but not on pure servers). Since the actual model rendering is handled client side, altering the skin files will only affect things on your system.

However, this will result in all the other players using your skin to have missing heads, bodies, etc. just like your character.


Exactly. A patch is needed. I'm waiting... maybe then I can buy this game.

Originally posted by razorace
I think I mentioned this before but the reason why Raven took out the FPS view was because they would have had to impliment a True View like system (like what I did for MotF) or create special FPS view models for all the different combinations of custom jedi skins.

This is the first time I read this reason. True view would be better and I understand it would be difficult to implement. But why not implement the JO method? It would be better than nothing. :(

Nemios
10-17-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
...

Exactly my thoughts (as usually with Kurgan). I couldn't have said it better (in facts I'm not english). :o

razorace
10-17-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
...

Well, I'm guessing that the current cg_fpls 1 function is the same as the old one. If you can figure out what model file it's referencing (probably the original one), you could just slap in one of the old kyle fpls skins and be done with it.

Tyler_Durden
10-17-2003, 10:35 PM
what file would the prompt for the skin to change from transparent to opaque in cutscenes be in JK2? It seems like it could be done the same way for JA by adding a few commands here and there

[div3rse.jello]
10-18-2003, 06:08 AM
you guys sure /cg_fpls 1 doesnt work?

Kurgan
10-18-2003, 10:49 AM
Oh it works alright, its just that the skin being used is non-transparent, so you just see this big head in the way most of the time.

Astrotoy7
10-18-2003, 11:48 AM
Take a DEEP breath, or maybe ten

Exactly. well put Sidious...

Thats what the forums are for RadRick, your fellow JA ppl can help you solve your dilemma......M'Kay !!! Getting on here and bagging our beloved billionaire game developer will achieve naught.

Just think about it alot of the JA/q3 settings can be altered. So, as shown in the above posts, you can alter the skinsand or the viewpos to get your desired effect.....

I don't understand why though... All those beautiful kata animations took alot of time and care, and all some people want is a JKI style saber poppin up in front of the screen... It was fun back then, because there was nothing better, but considering how dynamic the q3 engine is and how fast the game action can be it just seems a bit silly to me... but to each their own, that what makes JA and the q3 engine so great, that you can CHANGE things to suit your preferences ....!


MTFBWYA

Nemios
10-20-2003, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by razorace
Well, I'm guessing that the current cg_fpls 1 function is the same as the old one. If you can figure out what model file it's referencing (probably the original one), you could just slap in one of the old kyle fpls skins and be done with it.

The skin in JO is kyle_fpls2.skin
So you think that if you add it in a pk3 JA could automagically use it? I doubt it and can't try since I don't have the game. The problem with pure servers would still be present, thought.

razorace
10-20-2003, 06:46 AM
Well, it's worth a shot.

IG-64
10-20-2003, 08:03 AM
hey, once you do it, try changing the fov to a lower level, like cg_fov 30-cg_fov 50, ive been doing it for a long time, it looks really cool:)

p.s. make shure you turn the mouse sensitivity up

Crow_Nest
10-20-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by ig64
hey, once you do it, try changing the fov to a lower level, like cg_fov 30-cg_fov 50, ive been doing it for a long time, it looks really cool:)

p.s. make shure you turn the mouse sensitivity up

Does anyone knows how to make the cg_fov thing 90? Because i always have to type it in the console everytime i play.:(

J.P.B.
10-20-2003, 03:29 PM
Did you try by setting it in the autoexec.cfg??

Filbertcat
10-26-2003, 01:03 AM
I bought the game and strat guide yesterday and after playing 1 level I am about to sell the whole thing on Ebay or put it in the shredder. Why the heck didn't they give any idication that this FIRST PERSON shooter series which is based on the Jedi and therefore the lightsaber, would come out with a version that is only in third person for the saber? I got into this series for the emersion of the swordplay and force powers and to me that requires first person. I felt less ripped-off when I bought Outpost back in 1995!, at least I could play it! Unless you are born and raised on third person kiddie games it is most unsettling. Somewhat akin to trying to use a flight simulator with an external view. Having formal sword training myself I need the first person view or it's just not interesing.

{quote} "Who would wanna play with 1st person?

it sux, besides. When you use staff in 1st person, your saber would be blocking your view. (I guess)"

This is the real life hazzard of sword and staff combat, your own arms and weapon can block your view, it's part of the challenge. Remove that and you might as well remove the dangers of being hit IMHO. Part of actual sword strategy, as well as most martial arts is attacking in blindspots and trying to create them. Sorry for being a purist, I never could play a shooter or sim in third person, and I can't firgure why people like it!


:confused:

J.P.B.
I don't know if I will try the posted edit, but I do salute you for the work! Maybe if someone forwards this thread to the developers they could come up with something that will work.
Even if it's not perfect it's better than nothing, because the game is no fun as a stands and I will not boot it again until I have first person saber. Can you believe I actually got so bored in the training area that I attacked Kyle with my saber.....??? Just to see what happened.

:eek:

Prime
10-26-2003, 01:47 AM
If you bought the game yesterday you have had plenty of time to find out that it didn't have first person lightsaber combat. This has been known since the release. Perhaps you should have checked if the game was what you wanted before you bought it.

Toxie
10-26-2003, 01:51 AM
Yeah the 1st person saber view is pretty worthless in Outcast, that why you're in 3rd person view by default in Academy. 1st person would have been so bad if they would have did it a little better. They need to implement a view similar to the one in Morrowing, where you could really see your arms, shouldn't and hand, it sucked when all you could see was the saber and your barely visible transparent hands flashing every now and again.

Kurgan
10-26-2003, 02:10 AM
Actually the first person saber in JK2 was perfectly fine (I agree, the SP version was limited, but the MP version was great).


Raven seems to be dead set on not letting us use First Person Lightsaber in JA though. Their reasoning (Mike and Kenn, so I assume the whole team) is that they wouldn't be doing it justice unless they had it so it was every possible combination of Jaden's arms, and since that is too much work, they just won't do it.

It was fine in JK2 because Kyle was the only character you could be in SP, and MP it was an unsupported feature slipped in in the last patch.

So if we want it, we'll have to mod it in when the SDK is released.... oh well. If it's client side only, I suppose it could still be used on pure servers?

razorace
10-26-2003, 02:39 AM
Sissies. It only took me (a newbie modder) to come up with True View, which worked with any player model, in a month and a half of on again/off again work.

eniaC
10-26-2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
Does anyone knows how to make the cg_fov thing 90? Because i always have to type it in the console everytime i play.:(

Have you tried binding the command, I binded the devmapall and give all, along with thereisnospoon, might try it for that.

Originally posted by Fibertcat
I bought the game and strat guide yesterday and after playing 1 level I am about to sell the whole thing on Ebay or put it in the shredder
:violin:
After one day of playing one level? Want some cheese with that wine?

Originally posted by Fibertcat
Unless you are born and raised on third person kiddie games it is most unsettling.

Well hello Mr. Fancy Pants.

Originally posted by radrick01
I am so disapionted that I am returning the game for my money back. I don't think I'll ever buy a LucasArts game again!

Kind of drastic, have you addressed Raven with this or LAE?
Have you given 3rd person a chance?

Things change with good reason, get over it.
If you don't like the game take it back, simple as that.
You should seriously give it a chance, it has to many positive aspects to even begin to list.

In conclusion with regards to the 1st or 3rd person, if the dev's left 1st person saber out, I'm sure there is a good reason. They did a mighty fine job on the game if you ask me. Now ask yourself, could you have done better? If so wait for the MOD tool be released, and there ya go. If not, then shut the h*ll up, who are you to give any crap to a group of people who prob. spent the last few years working on this, with a multi billion dolar corp. lingering over there every move, and still put out a fine product.
So back off the Raven bashing , they've had plenty since the game was put out, I believe.

shock1eniaCshock1

Filbertcat
10-26-2003, 04:57 AM
I am rather amazed at how caustic some of your responses are, really. Yes, maybe it was dumb to ASSUME that after Dark Forces, Jedi 1 and Jedi 2, that this one would be pretty much the same. I bought Jedi 1 and 2 without research and was not dissapointed. Hard lesson for me I guess, shame, I really like the series. Kinda like expecting a 2004 model car to have antilock brakes if the 2003 had it standard and buying it without checking. Unfortunately I really had to dig just to find this out. None of the reviews I have seen mention it, only a couple of obscure posts mention it. And I don't spend 40 hrs a week scanning the net for every conceivable bug a new game might have. I'm just irked that they call it a first person shooter when it really isn't.

Yes, I tried the 3rd person, it makes me dizzy and it's generally annoying, I would rather feel like I am fighting someone, not like I am controlling a puppet. I had no problem in the other version with saber play in 1st person so I never used the 3rd person.
Seems to me that the majority of those who want 1st person don't care if they model it perfect, just so it is there. Maybe we can talk them into a patch.

eniaC
10-26-2003, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by Filbertcat
I am rather amazed at how caustic some of your responses are, really.

I'm rather amazed at the attitude towards the people who designed the game. I realize the consumer has rights with any product or what have you, and we should it's are hard earned cash that pays their salaries, mo arguments there.
I just belived all this complaining is being gone about the wrong way. This forum is neither Raven nor LAE, though Raven folks do visit the forum and are very giving to the JK series community, they are in no way obligated to.

Lucas Arts are the ones in charge of liscensed products being released I believe and not Raven. The point is there are threads all over the forum bashing Raven, and it all seems to be regarding a patch because people aren't happy with the game, and its just rediculous.

Anti-lock brakes are covered under warranties and save lives, patches are not and don't.

Filbertcat,
In no way am I directing this towards you. I realize that was your first post and I appologize for the causticness. Take a look at some of these threads though.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116030
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115817
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115616
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116056


eniaC


GREAT THREAD - http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115797

Crow_Nest
10-26-2003, 05:48 AM
Have you tried binding the command, I binded the devmapall and give all, along with thereisnospoon, might try it for that.


no i mean when i start the game, its already set to 90. Is there a way to do this?

eniaC
10-26-2003, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
no i mean when i start the game, its already set to 90. Is there a way to do this?

A config file perhaps, a question better directed towards Kurgan or IG-64, not really sure.
:confused:

eniaC

Luc Solar
10-26-2003, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Their reasoning (Mike and Kenn, so I assume the whole team) is that they wouldn't be doing it justice unless they had it so it was every possible combination of Jaden's arms, and since that is too much work, they just won't do it.

And then there's the thing that the # of people in the whole wide world who prefer sabering in first person view is probably closer to 5 than 20. :D

(Of course - I could be wrong.)

Crow_Nest
10-26-2003, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by {R^S}eniaC{JC}
A config file perhaps, a question better directed towards Kurgan or IG-64, not really sure.
:confused:

eniaC


Kurgan told me to look for a .cfg file (Can't remember name), it should be together with all the other .cfg files, but i cant find it.:(

Oh, well. Maybe i'll go ask the cheat master. :)

Akshara
10-26-2003, 06:39 AM
Use Wordpad (not Notepad) to open the jaconfig.cfg file (or jampconfig.cfg for MP) in your Gamedata/base folder. Look for this line:

seta cg_fov

If it's not there add it, with this entry:

seta cg_fov "90"

A lower number will have you zoom in closer, a higher number will widen the field - though for some reason in JA, they've limited the field to 100. In all other Raven games, I could go as high as 135.

IG-64
10-26-2003, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
Kurgan told me to look for a .cfg file (Can't remember name), it should be together with all the other .cfg files, but i cant find it.:(

Oh, well. Maybe i'll go ask the cheat master. :)

i don't mess with the files, im the cheat master, not the hack master :p

Crow_Nest
10-26-2003, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by Akshara
A lower number will have you zoom in closer, a higher number will widen the field - though for some reason in JA, they've limited the field to 100. In all other Raven games, I could go as high as 135.

Yes i know that. I never put lower than 80 or higher than 120.

Btw thx.:)

Rotep
01-13-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by J.P.B.
This is how I configured my .skin files:
Head_c1:
head_cap_torso_off,models/players/stormtrooper/caps.tga
heada,*off
...
...


Hail all!

I am having trouble getting First Person Lightsaber in Single Player to work for Jedi Academy. I would love any help that you guys could give ;). I just can't deal with 3rd person, especially with that bouncing camera.

Can somebody please tell me:

What file (name and location) do we put this info into for Jedi Academy? (From J.P.B.'s post on first page)

And are there any more steps besides creating and/or editing a .skin file to get first person saber in single player for Academy?

Any way to get that bouncing camera to stay still (in case I can't get first person to work in SP)? I can almost tolerate 3rd person in JA if that camera will stay put, lol.

I've tried the 4 cg_thirdperson options, and it works GREAT for forcing the 3rd person camera to inside of Jaden's head in single player and in multiplayer!!! The problem is: Jaden hunches forward when the saber is unsheathed, putting his head right in front of the camera. Sheath the saber and his head moves back in-line with the camera. It's always something lol.

Thanks a lot all!!
Rotep

PS. By the way, I personally never play in 3rd person in any game. I choked down 3rd person for Knights of the Old Republic, because its *not* a FPS!!! lol. Even though BioWare implemented 3rd person PERFECTLY in KoTR, I still would have rather been in 1st person. KotR's mouse-movable camera combined with movement keys is the best implementation of 3rd person I've ever seen.

Why does third person bug people so much in Jedi Academy?

1. I don't feel like Im a part of the story/game in 3rd person. I don't walk through life looking at myself, nor am I forced to see nothing but the back of the main star's head in a movie. It's all about perspective that fits the story...and 3rd person does not fit JA well at all.

2. The camera rolls back and fourth as if Jedi Academy takes place on a boat. The screen is constantly rocking back and fourth, really annoying, and gives me headaches since my eyes are always tracking to find the enemy.

3. The avatar walks through doors before the camera, making it real easy to get a couple of quick slices/shots in before that person even sees you camping on the inside of the door. This is almost cheat against people in 3rd person.

4. People can use the camera to peek around corners, over boxes, etc. Sounds like a cheat if somebody is in 1st person mode. This is almost cheat against people in 1st person.

4. I am tired of looking at Jaden's backside!!! I couldn't care less what he is dressed in, nor do I care how cool his rolls and kicks look. I only care about feeling like I am a part of Star Wars, and about feeling like *I* am the one doing the moves, not some Kermit the Frog puppet.

Really sorry for the rant guys and gals...but it's just a little frustrating to pay $50 for an *expansion* (it obviously is) that doesn't even support 1st person like it's predicessor did :(. JA and JO have almost EVERYTHING anybody could want in a FPS, and possibly two of the best FPS ever written, IMHO! JA and JO could have been so much more with such little effort :(. Just sad.

Crow_Nest
01-14-2004, 05:47 AM
The command for 1st person is cg_fpls 1.

Jedi Luke
01-14-2004, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
The command for 1st person is cg_fpls 1.

That's the MP one.

A SP command would be nice but there isn't one and there aint gonna be one unfortunately :(.

Rotep
01-14-2004, 10:14 PM
Hail all!

Doh, I was afraid of that...now I see why it didn't work hehe. It still will be great for MP though, seige is tons of fun hehe.

Thank you for the reply all ;). Sorry again for the rant, I was just shocked when I installed it. I am dying to get to the storyline to see all of the goodies in store...but Im just not a 3rd person guy and tough to play ;(.

Be safe all!
Rotep

Aegis2
02-17-2004, 01:27 AM
Filbert & Rotep have said everything I've felt, and said it much more maturely, to be sure. I'm a bit outraged, as I can't return the game for my money back (store doesn't accept returns on software). And I do feel misled, as prior Jedi Knight games have first-person lightsaber standard.

I don't feel a part of the game. In Outcast, I could be a Jedi Master. Now, in Academy, I'm a Jedi Puppet Master. Wonderful. How immersive. Surround sound seems to put you right there, right about 10 feet behind & above the action! It's like you're almost there! Especially with the EAX.

The acrobatics don't do it for me. If I need to see acrobatics, I'll watch the Star Wars or the Matrix movies.

I'm out $50 for something I don't want to play.

I want retribution.

Aegis2
02-17-2004, 01:29 AM
Whew! Though still $50 poorer, I feel much better now.

And yes, I realize this was resurrecting a dead thread, but as I just mentioned, it was very therapeutic.

El Sitherino
02-17-2004, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by Filbertcat
I am rather amazed at how caustic some of your responses are, really. Yes, maybe it was dumb to ASSUME that after Dark Forces, Jedi 1 and Jedi 2, that this one would be pretty much the same. I bought Jedi 1 and 2 without research and was not dissapointed. Hard lesson for me I guess, shame, I really like the series. Kinda like expecting a 2004 model car to have antilock brakes if the 2003 had it standard and buying it without checking. Unfortunately I really had to dig just to find this out. None of the reviews I have seen mention it, only a couple of obscure posts mention it. And I don't spend 40 hrs a week scanning the net for every conceivable bug a new game might have. I'm just irked that they call it a first person shooter when it really isn't.

Yes, I tried the 3rd person, it makes me dizzy and it's generally annoying, I would rather feel like I am fighting someone, not like I am controlling a puppet. I had no problem in the other version with saber play in 1st person so I never used the 3rd person.
Seems to me that the majority of those who want 1st person don't care if they model it perfect, just so it is there. Maybe we can talk them into a patch. the word shooter refers to guns, you don't shoot sabers. And you dont' just go and look at a car and buy it, you test it out to make sure it works and runs like you want it to. new cars have different engines than old ones. You also have to make sure a car has all teh features you want. Sometimes costs are cut on car budgets and therefore features often become optional and not standard. That's the dangers of capitalism, It's called playing what you can.

Also demo's of games are released for a reason, so you can preview the game. I liked 1st person saber combat but I'm not about to ditch a perfectly good game just because of one thing I don't like. I am a swordfight myself in real life and I enjoy the thrill of getting caught off gaurd and catching others offgaurd, but it's a game not real life. Give it a rest. Besides I assume you are human or an intelligent ape of another form, either way you have a natural ability to adapt to new things, use this ability. And always test things before you buy them honestly. THis has got to be the stupidest reason for a diss on JA ever. I could put up with the, "it's just an expansion" argument, but this, this is just idiotic and petty. As said before, until you can do better, you should not diss people on what they have worked long and hard, on. Also try reporting to LucasArts, they have a feedback area for a reason.

SkinWalker
02-17-2004, 04:54 AM
Also, it's interesting to point out that many of the moves one does with a saber are simply not possible or perhaps extremely difficult without seeing your avatar in the third person.

Perhaps this is why the game switches from 1st to 3rd person views when switching from guns to sabers?

Aegis2
02-17-2004, 06:03 AM
Thanks to JPB, I've got it working in fps mode, so my temper's gone, and I'm breathing sighs of relief, though I really find it obnoxious that I'm not gonna see my character in the cutscenes.

You're right about the people taking test drives before buying a new car, and playing demo versions before buying new games, but Jedi Academy was perceived by myself, and apparently others, as an old game with a few new bells & whistles...i.e., expansion pack. There was no mention of the removal of some old bells & whistles.

Otherwise, the exact reason you buy something from someone else is because they are better at doing it than you are. For heaven's sake, we'd all be hunting & gathering yet if we didn't do this! It's a fundamental principle of economics, though I forget it's exact name, you can find it in any freshman-level econ book. And yes, it is okay to "diss" that someone for selling you something other than what it appears to be. I think, in principle, that's called fraud.

Now, I'm not implying LucasArts or Raven is guilty of fraud, but given the number of topics one can find on this forum & others, there were obviously a number of people who purchased this game under false expectations. LucasArts is responsible for properly & accurately representing its products, and while it does not explicitly state anywhere on the box that the lightsaber can be used in first person, it is marketed as an FPS/TPS (Third Person Shooter...to coin the term if it hasn't been already, dunno), and one expects that feature. I haven't purchased Splinter Cell exactly for that reason...I know it is a third person shooter.

Jedi Academy is marketed as an FPS/TPS and it's not. It's an amalgam of the two, but not both. Therefore, I feel cheated.

Skinwalker, if your question is not rhetorical, though I'm terribly new to this game, I believe I can confirm that from what little I've read, yes, some moves are not possible or very difficult in first-person mode, and that is why the game behaves that way.

However, although I enjoy games, I've never been good at them, I lack anything resembling manual dexterity and I'm far to dumb to use these exotic moves. I bet my computer does alot more than I use it for too. I bought what I thought was a game that could be a simple first person hack & slash game with Force powers, not unlike Quake (remember the axe?) or...say...Jedi Outcast (remember the lightsaber?) What I got was a totally different animal.

Most importantly, I just want to get across that I'm not an intelligent human or ape of any type, and I get very frightened & very confused when I see my character running around in front of me, and I simply can't adapt.

Prime
02-17-2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Aegis2
Thanks to JPB, I've got it working in fps mode, so my temper's gone, and I'm breathing sighs of relief, though I really find it obnoxious that I'm not gonna see my character in the cutscenes. You can specify what character you want to see in the cutscenes in a .npc file. I bet that would work in this case as well.

Originally posted by Aegis2
You're right about the people taking test drives before buying a new car, and playing demo versions before buying new games, but Jedi Academy was perceived by myself, and apparently others, as an old game with a few new bells & whistles...i.e., expansion pack. There was no mention of the removal of some old bells & whistles. Those bells and whistles were never supported in the previous games, and were never a stated feature of those games. And it was a mistake to assume that JA was an expansion on a technical level, as it was never claimed to be. And of course something like this would never be officially mentioned as removed, since it was never offically a part of the game in the first place.

Originally posted by Aegis2
Otherwise, the exact reason you buy something from someone else is because they are better at doing it than you are. For heaven's sake, we'd all be hunting & gathering yet if we didn't do this! It's a fundamental principle of economics, though I forget it's exact name, you can find it in any freshman-level econ book. And yes, it is okay to "diss" that someone for selling you something other than what it appears to be. I think, in principle, that's called fraud. Are you claiming that Lucasarts/Raven stated that FP lightsabers were included in the game? If so, that is false. They have never claimed that. That is something that some players mistakenly assumed on their own.

Originally posted by Aegis2
Now, I'm not implying LucasArts or Raven is guilty of fraud That's good, because they aren't :)

Originally posted by Aegis2
but given the number of topics one can find on this forum & others, there were obviously a number of people who purchased this game under false expectations. Yes they had false expectations that were not based on what Raven and Lucasarts stated to be the case. They have never claimed that lightsabers could be used in FP. Even just looking at a preview on the web, (http://www.gamesfirst.com/previews/jeremyk/jk_jediacademy/jediacademy.htm) it states that:

The mission played much like what you have come to expect from the series, with the player switching from a first person perspective, shooting and sniping the enemy with a blaster, to third person perspective, slicing and dicing in close range combat.

Originally posted by Aegis2
LucasArts is responsible for properly & accurately representing its products, and while it does not explicitly state anywhere on the box that the lightsaber can be used in first person, it is marketed as an FPS/TPS (Third Person Shooter...to coin the term if it hasn't been already, dunno), and one expects that feature. Lucasarts did accurately represent it's product. It is the mistake of the customer to apply their own beliefs for things that were never claimed by the developer. They claim that the game is played in both FP and TP modes, which is correct, as both views are used.

In the Clone Wars game, you can drive a tank on some levels and control Mace Windu on others. It would be foolish for someone to claim they were ripped off because they can't control Mace on the level where they drive a tank.

Originally posted by Aegis2
Jedi Academy is marketed as an FPS/TPS and it's not. It's an amalgam of the two, but not both. Therefore, I feel cheated. It is a FPS/TPS. What you are doing is applying your own belief of what that means, instead of finding out what it actually means. The buyer must take some responsibility to find out if the product supplies what they demand. If not, don't buy it. That is the power you wield as a customer :)

Originally posted by Aegis2
Skinwalker, if your question is not rhetorical, though I'm terribly new to this game, I believe I can confirm that from what little I've read, yes, some moves are not possible or very difficult in first-person mode, and that is why the game behaves that way. That might well be true. I think the "offical" explanation from the developers had to do with the fact that with the custom characters in JA it was much more work to make FP look good with all of them, as opposed to just having to do it with one in JO (Kyle). Who knows.

Originally posted by Aegis2
I bought what I thought was a game that could be a simple first person hack & slash game with Force powers, not unlike Quake (remember the axe?) or...say...Jedi Outcast (remember the lightsaber?) What I got was a totally different animal. You made a mistake in thinking you were getting something you were not, which is unfortunate. :( However, this is not the fault of Raven/Lucasarts, since they did not claim these things in the first place.

Tyler_Durden
02-17-2004, 04:52 PM
Bottom line is, take academy back to your local vendor if you didn't like it (mine's collecting dust on a shelf) and wait for awesome games like republic commando or even star wars battlefront. Those have CONFIRMED first person perspectives. Even though they are not jedi games per se, they at least have the features those of us who prefer first person have come to expect.

Aegis2
02-17-2004, 05:35 PM
First off, Tyler, this would be a non-issue if I could return it, but maybe this is some strange law that Michigan has...I've never heard of a store in Michigan that accepts returns on software...I know for a fact now that the place I bought it from doesn't, so I can't.

Prime, your arguements are very lucid & completely logical; you've won me over & I now see the light. :)

Tyler_Durden
02-17-2004, 08:12 PM
I think everyone here knows where i stand on the subject, no need to get into it any further. It just means i'll be spending more time with the other games i mentioned. Here's hoping a few mod sites open with tutorials for them.

RyanTheDarkJedi
02-24-2004, 12:22 AM
sorry i dont want to revive this but ure ture veiw config cnat u take taht and put it in jka folder

Agen
02-24-2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
Bottom line is, take academy back to your local vendor if you didn't like it (mine's collecting dust on a shelf) and wait for awesome games like republic commando or even star wars battlefront. Those have CONFIRMED first person perspectives. Even though they are not jedi games per se, they at least have the features those of us who prefer first person have come to expect.
Well JKA does have 1st person like battlefront etc. Just not with the saber :p

Tyler_Durden
02-24-2004, 06:57 PM
True but I don't play the whole game with the guns as opposed to the lightsaber which is what JA focuses on the most. Whereas battlefront is a run n' gun type of game and i expect that.

Ok i've been thinking about something someone said, might have been on this or another thread.... You can play JA in 1st person with a few minor tweaks here and there, but for cutscenes if you made those changes you wouldn't see a skin onscreen, so basically it's like you're not there. Now someone pointed out that you might be able to tweak the game (an npc file or something) so as to present a specific npc to show during cutscenes. Then to be able to seamlessly be able to play in 1st person effectively and have jaden show up as whomever you want in the cutscenes. Is this a possibility? I'd be willing to try if someone came up with a method. I would imagine that you would need to create and edit a .cfg file in order to do this.

Prime
02-25-2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
Ok i've been thinking about something someone said, might have been on this or another thread.... You can play JA in 1st person with a few minor tweaks here and there, but for cutscenes if you made those changes you wouldn't see a skin onscreen, so basically it's like you're not there. Now someone pointed out that you might be able to tweak the game (an npc file or something) so as to present a specific npc to show during cutscenes. Then to be able to seamlessly be able to play in 1st person effectively and have jaden show up as whomever you want in the cutscenes. Is this a possibility? I'd be willing to try if someone came up with a method. I would imagine that you would need to create and edit a .cfg file in order to do this. That should be easy. All you have to do is edit the player.npc file and specify the model you want to use. For example, if you wanted to use the reborn model, in the Player entry, you would change the playermodel parameter from player to reborn. Cutscenes use the model specified in this entry.

Kurgan
02-27-2004, 07:58 PM
OJP will have "trueview" so you'll get 1st person saber options in MP.

As to SP well, good luck, sounds like those people have some ideas for an (imperfect) solution.


If you really want to return your JA game in protest, I suggest you sell it on ebay.

Agen
02-28-2004, 12:48 AM
Still a bit drastic because one of the weapons is in 3rd person... I mean learn it, it's not exactly difficult and about 95% of people prefer 3rd person with a saber. I have never seen anyone complain about the lack of 1st person on a server...

Tyler_Durden
02-28-2004, 04:35 AM
No.