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Chewy289
10-18-2003, 01:25 PM
the last few duel servers i went to had players who would chat kill, over use saber throw, abuse force powers, and simply play like idiots.

its getting worse too :(
we need more good servers!

Blankie
10-18-2003, 02:05 PM
1- Play on a duel server. Don't chat when fighting.

2- Play on NF Servers. Full force servers mean people WILL USE FORCE POWERS.

3- "simply play like idiots" = Not playing the way I want them to play. Too bad.

Blank

Luc Solar
10-18-2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Chewy289
the last few duel servers i went to had players who would chat kill, over use saber throw, abuse force powers, and simply play like idiots.

its getting worse too :(
we need more good servers!

Hey I can play with you! How about I only use lightning but miss every time I try so that you won't loose any hp? And then I'll only use single saber yellow stance, how's that sound? Naturally I'd never ever throw it (god forbid!) unless I have more force than you - then I can throw it quickly up in the air so that my force pool is at 0 and you can grip me or do whatever you want to my helpless jedi?

Oh and I could keep walk pressed down all the time so that I won't be too hard to hit!! But then there's the lame auto blocking... hmm.. tell you what: what if I simply stand still the whole duel (except for the 20 minutes I'll be bowing after each swing you make to show you honour and respect for being so amazingly skilled) with my saber down so that you can kill me and be teh darth lukeskywalker jedimastah who never loses a duel?

But then there's the thing with "saber down = peace". Quite tricky. Maybe it's best if I just try my best to make it look like I'm fighting back so that you can get your honourable victory? Then again - there's always the risk that I'll accidentally hit you and make yur noble jedi lose hp:s.

Quite the dilemma, isn't it? But don't worry, we'll figure it out. Remember: I'm always online for the sole purpose of entertaining you and making you feel like the bestest jedi ever no matter how badly you play.

Oh no wait, I just died of sarcasm overload. :eek: I guess you need to find someone else. :)

Katt
10-18-2003, 05:11 PM
This is really a reply to the two idiots that replied to you. Notice he said chat kill .. anyone that chat kills is an idiot, with the exception of those that bring up chat in the middle of a fight where you did a move that you KNOW will get countered, and you bring up chat to hope they don't nail you while you are wide open to a counter.

Notice he said over use saber throw. This means they hardly swing at you at all, but simply wait for you to swing and then throw the sabers for a guaranteed hit. Repeat. Win.

Notice he said abuse force powers. This can easily mean they avoid fighting and just keep away while power regens and then continue to use lightning, choke, and little else.

But see, the stupidity of your two replies is an excellent reflection of the stupidity displayed by many people online. It's no doubt morons like you that abuse everything and anything online to grief and display how hardup you are just to get a win. Reading the idiocy of your replies only serves validate how much of an ******* people like you are.

ManaMana
10-18-2003, 05:17 PM
Great answer!!! :D :D :D :D

Bifford
10-18-2003, 06:01 PM
If saber throw and certain force powers are so powerful that players can get away with using only them, then we shouldn't yell at the players - we should yell at the developers to fix the game balance. It is technically fair play.

Tsaya
10-18-2003, 06:09 PM
Notice he said abuse force powers. This can easily mean they avoid fighting and just keep away while power regens and then continue to use lightning, choke, and little else.
And how exactly is that an abuse? You know what abuse means? Yeah, right. It means using something in a different way than it was meant to be used. Force lightning is supposed to kill. So is force grip and saber throw.
If someone uses them to kill you, now what exactly makes him an abuser? Exactly: nothing.

Kidso
10-18-2003, 06:27 PM
The only thing that needs to be made balanced is saber throw, everything else can be countered if your know what your doing.

Saber throws damage, speed and everything is fine, nothing wrong with the power and I want it to stay but I would like to see some sort of limit put on it so it can't be spammed over and over again. Maybe it could take away all your force when you use it, that would fix the problem, this would be a very simple mod, Raven doesn't even have to get involved.

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-18-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Chewy289
the last few duel servers i went to had players who would chat kill, over use saber throw, abuse force powers, and simply play like idiots.

its getting worse too :(
we need more good servers!

I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious\asking questions:

1. If you are truly on a duel server, how can you get chatkilled? There are only two players dueling, so the only person who could kill you is your opponent, and that is what she is supposed to do. I would assume after having to be in spectator for several minutes, where you can chat all you want safely, when it's your turn to duel you would be ready to fight, not chat. Or are you talking about servers that are in FFA mode\gametype but are really unofficial dueling servers, where several people are standing around waiting to duel? That is the problem with running a duel server under the wrong gametype.

2. Isn't it true that if you saber throw against a dueler in a defensive posture, you run the risk of "dropping" the thrown saber? Isn't that part of the strategy of dueling?

3. Abusing Force powers? What does that mean? If they use lightning or grip, you can use Absorb or Drain. Absorb does what it says, Drain lets you take down your opponent's Force pool even faster when combined with their use of lightning\grip, so they are left depleted, unable to use Force, katas, or specials, and therefore easier to defeat, while Drain restored your health. Again, isn't that part of the strategy in dueling? Or, as someone suggested, why not go to a no Force server?

4. We don't need more servers, there are already 500 out there, surely you can find one that you like. Perhaps you are relying only on the ingame browser, which due to a bug is only showing 30 or so of the 500 servers? If so, you need to download the All Seeing Eye http://www.udpsoft.com/eye2/index.html so you can see all of the servers. The ASE is currently showing me 125 Duel servers and 12 Power Duel servers. Have you tried all of them?

Rad Blackrose
10-18-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Katt
This is really a reply to the two idiots that replied to you. Notice he said chat kill .. anyone that chat kills is an idiot, with the exception of those that bring up chat in the middle of a fight where you did a move that you KNOW will get countered, and you bring up chat to hope they don't nail you while you are wide open to a counter.

Notice he said over use saber throw. This means they hardly swing at you at all, but simply wait for you to swing and then throw the sabers for a guaranteed hit. Repeat. Win.

Notice he said abuse force powers. This can easily mean they avoid fighting and just keep away while power regens and then continue to use lightning, choke, and little else.

Good job on not understanding FF Duel mechanics.

First of all, there is no such thing as overuse of a force move. If you use nothing but a saber in an FF duel, should I call you a saber whore? I should also call you a moron.

Those of us who "abuse" force stem from the 1.04 FF Duel scene, in which quick death moves were required to counter Drain and Bunny Hopping Heal. Thus comes "over use" of powers such as Grip, level 2 Lightning, Pull + Saber Throw (yes, it still exists minus the kick portion), etc. Unfortunately, your failure to ADAPT is blatantly apparent.

Also, there are dynamics that exist that prevent certain move spam. Grip has the LOS restriction. Saber Throw can be knocked away for a ST counter. That also means not to swing like a blind idiot, like most people do. Lightning has Drain, Absorb, and Push as counters. That is one force in all three areas. Cry more and get some tactical layout.

But see, the stupidity of your two replies is an excellent reflection of the stupidity displayed by many people online. It's no doubt morons like you that abuse everything and anything online to grief and display how hardup you are just to get a win. Reading the idiocy of your replies only serves validate how much of an ******* people like you are.

You bitch at others telling them to adapt to JA, well guess what, our turn to say it in reprisal. Those of us who know how to use force, use sabers, and use guns to the maximum efficiency will be on top. If you think coming here to piss a hissy fit is going to change it, uninstall JA right now.

Seriously, go sit and twirl. People like you are the reason why people like Luc and I exist.

Luc Solar
10-18-2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Seriously, go sit and twirl. People like you are the reason why people like Luc and I exist.

Well yes, but...

I rant a lot trying to make people understand. I got an IQ above 80 which helps me realize that you can't expect the whole world to do what you'd want them to do in online gaming. Expecting someone to not do anything lame according to YOUR PERSONAL STANDARDS THAT NOBODY GIVES A **** ABOUT would be quite retarded, yes?

Now Rad, on the other hand, has an IQ above 80 and the ability to beat the crap out of your whiny rpg saber noobie darthmauljedi wannabe asses. And that makes you people mad. That makes you wanna cry "lamer", find an admin to kick him for owning you and then you come complaining about what happened on Lucasforums.

Why don't you take a moment, Katt? Think about it. I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion as me and Rad. Nothing wrong with changing your opinion.

During my first real multiplayer sessions when JO came out I remember thinking "man, that was lame", but even then I had enough brains not to whine about it. I sucked it up and tried again. Some times I won, some times the opponent was simply too good and kept kicking my ass for hours. Yes, I was pissed...but that's the game. Take it like a man, don't whine. You are not the bestest Jedi warrior in teh galaxie, you're just a guy playing a video game against other guys.

Sam Fisher
10-18-2003, 07:40 PM
These are all very good servers, enjoy.

><IKBR><ClanServer IP: 69.57.141.250:29070
[CO]CrimsonOrderDuel@BWN IP: 66.98.176.192:29070
*Kurgan's Meatgrinder* IP: EDITED
[LJC] West 1 @BWN IP: 216.218.213.6:29070
Allied Froce Lords Server IP: 66.98.176.199.29070
**SDF**Pwnage1 @BWN IP: 69.57.141.251:29070
Masters Temple 1 @BWN IP: 216.186.88.16:28072
[LJC] West 2 @BWN IP:216.218.213.5:29070
MoS Duel IP: 69.57.151.13:29070

Luc Solar
10-18-2003, 08:49 PM
eep..Kurgan's server is listed there.. I see trouble for mr. honourable jedi! ;)

Iblis Reborn
10-18-2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
eep..Kurgan's server is listed there.. I see trouble for mr. honourable jedi! ;)

lol

just let him go...it should make things interesting :evil2:

g//plaZma
10-18-2003, 09:39 PM
/amcryandwhine

Katt
10-18-2003, 09:41 PM
The problem with the majority of people that abuse things in the game is you think it's about winning and losing and nothing else. I can abuse things in the game and win as much as the next person. Problem is (and this is the important part): It's BORING!

There are things wrong with this game, just like there were things wrong with JK2 before it got patched. Yes, you can choose to be hardup for wins, and spam the broken crap that works. The rest of us would like to (gasp) have fun and win/lose based on the way the game was intended. I lose a great many fights that are fun. Not a problem. But when I, or others, resort to abusing loopholes in the game just to get wins, it's no longer fun.

And I sincerely hope you're not stupid enough to think certain things you spam over and over again are not broken. If they weren't, we would not be able to win using just that. Period.

Yes, patches will come out to fix these problems, just like before. You can choose to try having fun and not abuse what's broken, or you can choose to be hardup for wins and abuse and spam however many broken concepts this game has to get your precious ego-boosting wins while boring the hell out of everyone else. But please don't come off so stupid as to thinking this has anything to do with winning or losing to idiots that abuse what's broken. Any monkey can abuse the loopholes in this game. There are those of us trying to have a fun game, where we have enough sense of self worth to try playing while avoiding the broken crap that will clearly be patched (yaw abuse on barrier dual-saber anyone? *sigh*)

This whole thing is really not debatable. The morons that are hardup for wins will continue to abuse what's broken until it's patched. Original poster was just venting his frustrations with such morons ruining game after game. Some servers have gone so far as to boot such losers. I applaud them. If you're hardup for wins, by all means continue to abuse the game to your heart's content. No one can force you to not be a moron. Enjoy.

Master William
10-18-2003, 10:14 PM
people, i warn you, DO NOT POST FURTHER, as this is filled with UT fans who will probably flame me for this post another page.

and if they are using force, just use force right back at them... where does it say you can kill people when they are typing? where does it say you can kill people when they are not typing?

it doesnt say anywhere, so there you go

g//plaZma
10-18-2003, 10:39 PM
What's wrong with UT? People actually play UT (no virtual chatrooms)+it got a lot more recognition in the gaming world than JA will ever get.

The UT/2k3/2k4 community is a great example (minus the aimbotters) of what a gaming community should be.

This is a game with many options of killing people and a fully loaded arsenal of force powers at your dispense. It may not be as bloody and fast-paced as UT but it has the same idea. Kill everyone on the map to win. I don't see anything about honor and no chatkilling/saber-down killing on the JA user manual.

If you don't understand that, I think you should either -

a) play The Sims Online, people can't (oh no) chatkill eachother on there.

or

b) play with a community/group of players who are into this honor stuff, don't bother the guys who couldn't really give a flying rat's ass if they didn't bow before a duel.

Blankie
10-18-2003, 11:39 PM
Hey Katt,

suggested reading for you and all the other whiners :)

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm

Just a teaser for you all.... (the author is talking about Street Fighter)

"You’re not going to see a classic scrub throw his opponent 5 times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimize his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you…that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you sit in block for 50 seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap."

Enjoy.

Blank

Rad Blackrose
10-19-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Master William
people, i warn you, DO NOT POST FURTHER, as this is filled with UT fans who will probably flame me for this post another page.

and if they are using force, just use force right back at them... where does it say you can kill people when they are typing? where does it say you can kill people when they are not typing?

it doesnt say anywhere, so there you go

Here we go again, another case of Troll and Run.

Grow up.

Master William
10-19-2003, 12:32 AM
*Wears flame-resistant armor*

Your week powers have no effect on me whatsoever.

Just one thing... Grow up? You tell people to grow up just because of a forum discussion,
or a game to begin with?

When was the last time you ever left your keyboard? :D

Rad Blackrose
10-19-2003, 12:53 AM
Actually, I leave my computer running most of the time, as well as IE up and running with certain forums. You never know when I do step out for food, socialization with the opposite sex, parties, etc, because LF is one of those forums I keep on IE for enjoyment.

Might want to take off that flame-retardant suit, not only does it make your flames suck, but it does make you look like a retard.

Master William
10-19-2003, 01:05 AM
It will make my flames suck? I do never flame anyone, and perhaps never will, because I don't enjoy telling people what they are when I am just communicating with them by text.

noide
10-19-2003, 01:56 AM
yes katt "abusing" force and "abusing" throw is really using loopholes in the game. /sarc

dont type in a duel game retard. maybe yuo should uninstall the game and go to msn chat or something.

and throw is obviously the best counter against RAAAAAAAAAAAAGHRRHGH kata'ing saber flailing idiots.

noide
10-19-2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Master William

When was the last time you ever left your keyboard? :D

i'm sure that can be seen as a flame.

noide
10-19-2003, 01:59 AM
oh and that article was good. i'm guessing 98% of the JO/JA community is scrubs4life.
"admin admin he killed me using something that i dont know how to counter/do so please kick him cuz he's obviously better than me!!!!oneone11"

AxVegetA
10-19-2003, 02:24 AM
Well, that saber throw and lightning level 2, etc, issue are just one cheap coward way of playing-winning a game.
Its cheap because u can run like a coward the whole match, saber throwing and lightning me, till i eventually die, even in small dueling maps.
I wont die, cause i have heal, and i wont really get hurt by your saber thorws and lightnings cause i have absorb and i can just stand there blocking your atacks. But the problem here is not abuse of powers, the problem is that people can make a duel last forever (literally) and u canot do something about it if they really dont want to fight, if the server has set the force regen time to >50 and jedi master level. The only thing left for you is follow their game that will end with your dead body in the ground, or try to WIN that will last an hour or just wont end.
U can use speed-bunyhop to run, u can use mindtrick, push, almost any power can be overused to get a cheap kill or a coward run.
In a power duel server if was fighting two other players, one dark and the other light. It had a regen time of 100 i guess and jedi master level. I use single saber, so i hit them, but they ran and heal or drain me, they were two, so they came from infront and from the back. It was imposible for me to kill them cause they healed constantly (so i did). I used absorb so their pulls, drains and lights wont afect me, but after jumping lunging kating and so my force pool emptys very fast and then i have to buny hop away to regen some. Its hard enough to fight againts a staff and dual saberist together with one saber, but the fact that they can heal makes it imposible. After half an hour of nonsense fight, we and the people waiting to duel agreed to not use force powers at all. That way i concentrated in the dual first, then the staff was fair easy.

The solution to this is no-force duels or low-level force powers duels and a default regen time. If not, people will overuse force powers and be cheap-cowardrunners.

g//plaZma
10-19-2003, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Katt
The problem with the majority of people that abuse things in the game is you think it's about winning and losing and nothing else. I can abuse things in the game and win as much as the next person. Problem is (and this is the important part): [b]It's BORING!

Ok, if it's boring to you, you won't win as much. Since winning/losing doesn't mater much to you, there's no problem, right?

There are things wrong with this game, just like there were things wrong with JK2 before it got patched. Yes, you can choose to be hardup for wins, and spam the broken crap that works. The rest of us would like to (gasp) have fun and win/lose based on the way the game was intended. I lose a great many fights that are fun. Not a problem. But when I, or others, resort to abusing loopholes in the game just to get wins, it's no longer fun.

How do you know how the game was intended? It's new, there hasn't been any patches that say certain gameplay aspects are "broken." If you get killed by someone spamming the same thing over and over, that says something about your skill. Don't complain about it here please. Everything is counterable/avoidable in JA.

And I sincerely hope you're not stupid enough to think certain things you spam over and over again are not broken. If they weren't, we would not be able to win using just that. Period.

oic... I guess you're not supposed to win NF matches by spamming saber swings. My bad. I guess it's broke.

Yes, patches will come out to fix these problems, just like before. You can choose to try having fun and not abuse what's broken, or you can choose to be hardup for wins and abuse and spam however many broken concepts this game has to get your precious ego-boosting wins while boring the hell out of everyone else. But please don't come off so stupid as to thinking this has anything to do with winning or losing to idiots that abuse what's broken. Any monkey can abuse the loopholes in this game. There are those of us trying to have a fun game, where we have enough sense of self worth to try playing while avoiding the broken crap that will clearly be patched (yaw abuse on barrier dual-saber anyone? *sigh*)

Translation: "It 'bores' me when someone beats me using tactics that I do not approve of."

This whole thing is really not debatable. The morons that are hardup for wins will continue to abuse what's broken until it's patched. Original poster was just venting his frustrations with such morons ruining game after game. Some servers have gone so far as to boot such losers. I applaud them. If you're hardup for wins, by all means continue to abuse the game to your heart's content. No one can force you to not be a moron. Enjoy.

K ILL DO TAHT

Iblis Reborn
10-19-2003, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by Blankie
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm


whoa

weird how a simple game like streetfighter can have the same "honor" problems as a complex game like this one

i guess there isnt too much hope that it will ever end but then again there isnt much hope for them that we will ever stop either

this is war :vamp1:

Katt
10-19-2003, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
[B]Ok, if it's boring to you, you won't win as much. Since winning/losing doesn't mater much to you, there's no problem, right?
Wrong. That person's beating pretty much everyone, and I have to fight the same boring fight over and over again: a 1 move spamming idiot. Now I have to do the same. Now it's up to luck who wins (assuming we both have the limited skill part down where timing's involved). Not fun.

How do you know how the game was intended?Common sense. One method is not meant to win hands down no matter what opponent does. Again, common sense.

oic... I guess you're not supposed to win NF matches by spamming saber swings. My bad. I guess it's broke.By taking it that far, you merely show how little you understand about the topic. :rolleyes:

Rad Blackrose
10-19-2003, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by Katt
By taking it that far, you merely show how little you understand about the topic. :rolleyes:

No, but we are pretty sure how much happens when a few people crying gets gameplay changes so far off base that it screws a game over.

Those of us who are serious in our gaming know that any move can be countered even if the counter is not obvious or it is right under our noses. Your failure to investigate, and instead come here and cry like a little bitch only makes you look very, very stupid.

Right now, the only gametype that is seriously hindered is SO/FF CTF, but I doubt you play that. You're probably one of those people that would kick a person off for capping the flag and /amsit in a corner with others singing coumbyah. I don't know what's more fun, kicking off people for playing the game or creating a cyber circle-jerk with massive crying if the orgy is disrupted, but it must make you feel all high and mighty.

:rolleyes:

Since you are so avid against saying that level 2 lightning should be nerfed, or Absorb should not be allowed, or even going as far as saying as hit and run tactics are pussy ****, I need only say this:

Cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get the hell over it.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Unfortunately, for the spineless ones (read: you), you don't have the balls to try to counter it.

Spider Al, meet Katt. I think the he/she needs to hear one of your tirades.

GreenSmoke
10-19-2003, 06:35 AM
i don't understand i was under the impression that a ff duel was impossible to finish so why bother playing ff at all?

noide
10-19-2003, 07:37 AM
it's impossible to finish because raven are assclowns

Kurgan
10-19-2003, 02:09 PM
It seems very difficult for people to discuss topics like these without resorting to constant petty name calling and flaming each other with personal attacks.

You've stated your claims about "lamers" and you've recieved many possible solutions, some more cizilied and constructive than others.

Now let's put this topic to rest. If you want to continue to discuss it further fine, but ditch all the flaming crap. It IS possible to debate controversial issues without insulting the other person, believe it or not. I see it done every day in the Senate Chambers. Take a hint from them (most of them), who can debate politely and in a mature manner so that ideas can actually be measured for their worth and the debate skills of the participants can be compared rather than who can come up with the snappiest come-back insult or most creative flame.

As for me, I'm on the side of the guys who prefer to just play the game as it was made, not to make up rules that aren't found anywhere in the manual or in-game rules. But that doesn't mean I am closing this thread because of that, rather than things have gotten out of hand because people need more practice in discussing like grown-ups.

Moving on then...